The one with Stuart Bell of Growing Generations Surrogacy

This week, David's son still doesn't have a Mom, Dolly Parton shares some exciting news, we talk about the 3 things our kids will tell their therapists about us, and we are joined by Senior Partner of Growing Generations Surrogacy Stuart Bell, who fills us in on what it's like having big time celebrity clients, a nightmare scenario in his past, and what this thing called "tennis" is.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

David: 0:00

Like, I cannot imagine it's gonna cost more than four thousand dollars. It's just sucking the fat out from underneath my eyeballs. That's a reasonable Is that fat? Like, I mean, is it that's what it is? Do you know that I had a headshot photographer one time was taking my pictures when I was 23 and said, Oh, yeah, yeah, that stuff underneath your eyes. That's just fat. We could suck that out. I was like, I'm 23. I am beautiful, ma'am. And this is Gatriarchs. Okay, so I think a couple episodes ago I told you about there was a little girl in my son's class, who, by the way, is super annoying, but that's another story. Um, who keeps asking out loud why Emmett doesn't have a mom.

Gavin: 0:53

Oh, do you remember this? Really? Like, no, Emmett have a mom. I bet our seven listeners remember it, but you know, me, I mean my mind is a sieve, because why? I'm tired as fuck and I'm a dad. And I'm old.

David: 1:04

And uh anyway, yeah. But um, so he she would be like, why doesn't Emmett have a dad or a mom? Like really loud. And I just this could have been my, I guess, uh something great, but I wanted to start off by saying, like, I had kind of planned for this, but not from a you know, a four-year-old, annoying little girl. Yeah, she, you know, she says it out loud so kids can hear it, teachers can hear it, but Emmett can hear it. And so my response was, oh, he doesn't have a mom, he has two dads. And that, and then I continued to, you know, pack his bag and get it right. And obviously, I'm I'm performing it as casual and as upbeat as possible. But anyway, so this girl, again, the other day, out loud, when there's two people in the classroom, says really loud, why doesn't Emmett have a mommy? Uh-and I can see Emmett looking at me, and I just again, I was like, you know, he has two two dads. Um, he doesn't have a mom. Isn't that great? But I what was really isn't that great? I've definitely done that. I mean, overcompensating for sure, but trying to do it. Totally. But but I noticed the teachers watching me and kind of whispering to each other. So I took it as like a very kind of like teachable moment of like, yeah, this is how we talk about this. And this is simply, but directly and simply, and not as if we're like uh exposing a cancer diagnosis. This is like, you know what I mean? Like, this is like, oh, like I like bacon and eggs for breakfast, you like cereal, and then we move on with our day. So I try to be like, oh, he doesn't have a mommy, he has two dad, two daddies, and then leaving it there so they can kind of absorb my tone and my point of view about it. Anyway, I I just wanted to start by saying, like, this shit is gonna come up a lot for those of you who have parents that are about to be in school or who don't have kids yet. And so start kind of rehearsing your answers now because it doesn't stop. The lady at the grocery store is gonna ask. Definitely does. The little annoying girl in his class is gonna ask. So anyway.

Gavin: 2:59

But also, that is a cross to bear for us in that um, you know, I think uh in the life span, the the the parenting span of every gay dad and and gay mom and whatnot, somebody's always gonna kind of piss you off by assuming that you're straight or whatever, or have a reaction like, oh, that's so different. And I think we all kind of go through a grieving stage of being like, I was so mad, and we're all incensed, and we're like, how dare this world? But you know what? It is just what we have to deal with. And you can kind of choose not to get upset about it.

David: 3:31

I also think it's cute that you think anyone has ever assumed I was straight. That's very cute. That's cute of you.

Gavin: 3:36

Um, that's funny. Um, yeah, I uh I'm with you entirely, but it is across the bear, and it's funny to see on social media, I think new dads just getting absolutely irate about it. And you kind of be like, listen, yeah. It's just it's just the reality.

David: 3:53

Like let's fight, let's fight for change, but also like this is going to be your day-to-day reality. So prepare for it. Don't, don't just be, you know, irate when it happens.

Gavin: 4:01

Yep. Agreed. Agreed. So speaking of getting irate about things and being offended for legitimate reasons. My daughter is in middle school, and I am lucky enough to be at a middle school, or she's lucky enough to be at a middle school, where they do a musical. Like they really go through the efforts of, and I mean, I didn't grow up with a school musical in middle school. I don't know about you. And uh, it's a lot, you know, and it's a lot for the teachers to take on. Can you imagine how teaching kids all day long and then staying? I mean, I'm sure she's paid for it, but we know it ain't handsomely. She stays to rehearse, you know, 70 wild animals with hormones raging to 11, 12, 13-year-olds to actually step kick at the same time.

David: 4:44

Like not interested.

Gavin: 4:46

Sainthood. Sainthood. Anyway, no. Um, my daughter, despite the fact that she is naturally talented, absolutely refuses to do anything remotely like her dad's. You know, she is determined to be an athlete because I mean, I and I understand she needs to do her rebellion, that's fine. But also, I'm like, well, you know what? Theater kids are really, really fun. And um, you know, it's the theater kids are the ones who like go on to be really creative and I think successful, whether or not they go into theater or not. But like, who doesn't want to be part of the theater crowd, right? Even though it's sort of a joke, but like, let's be honest, they're great, right? She said, Dad, I'm not gonna hang out with the theater kids because they're just because theater is just therapy for emo kids. I'm like, wait, what? Wait, why is she being accurate? Why is she being accurate? Theater is emotherapy, is her actual statement. And you're right though, it's funny because it's true. And that's okay.

David: 5:44

I'm okay with it. It's a home for the broken. Um, yeah. I mean, but but but that's the thing, is like, that's why it's great. Is because, like, you know what I mean? No.

Gavin: 5:53

You're not pretending to be perfect, you're not pretending to be a mean girl, you're not dominating other people, you're just being a fun person, right? I mean, come on. So, anyway, eventually she will figure that out and hopefully go through her own emotherapy or her whatever therapy it is to be in theater. So good for her. Speaking of theater, did you know that Dolly is writing her own musical about her life? It's gonna be a biopic musical about Dolly Parton.

David: 6:23

I did not know that, and I saw it on the worksheet, and I was like, um, my heart started skipping a beat for two reasons. One, I was super excited because I fucking love Dolly Parton. It's in my day DNA. Um but the second part of my heart palpitations, other than I'm old and have heart disease, is I am afraid of it of them getting it wrong. But when you say Dolly's in charge, she's happy, right? Because I don't want to see, I don't want to see a bunch of drag queens performing her life in a silly like, but I want like a raw, real, I don't want like a backdrop of country roads and some sure singing on city center. I want something real and organic. So I have a feeling that she's if she's gonna be on the top of this, she's gonna write a lot of new music. That's amazing.

Gavin: 7:10

Like, I I feel good about it. Yeah, I feel really good about it. And uh the wonderful thing about her is her authenticity, of course. I mean, I know I'm stating the obvious, but she's so authentic in her inauthenticity and her self-awareness, which is just so fucking fabulous. And I I believe that she doesn't mind exposing warts, and she's gonna she's gonna do it. Um, and um, and also be like, I'm not gonna show you these warts here because it is my story to tell, but it'll be uh you just know it's gonna be great.

David: 7:37

But it's so it's it's she perfectly exemplifies what I think a lot of gays do with like taking back um ammunition from your oppressor and and hold like us saying the word faggot, right? Like you can't use that word because I'm now using that word. And the way she's like, oh yeah, my tits are fake and my nails are fake and blah, blah, blah. Like, she's taking it away from all of you, and she still wins. I I just worship that woman, uh, and I'm I'm sure you do too.

Gavin: 8:06

I'm sure that everybody knows the story, but it bears repeating. I think that I love her story about how um I mean, I think I heard her on Oprah or somewhere talk about how she saw a woman that looked like Dolly of, well, let's say the 80s when she was a little kid, and she said to her mom, Hey, mom, what what you know, what's the story with that girl, that woman? And her mom said, Well, she's just trash. And she said, Oh, well, then I want to grow up to be trash. And so she embodies entirely everything that she saw back then. And um, I mean, again, it's uh I'm not saying that she is trash by any stretch, or people who want to present themselves as Dolly is trash, but like she knows who she is and what she looks like and all the things. So good for that.

David: 8:49

She's not trash, but you know who trash who is trash? Do tell. Us. Trash. Garbage.

Gavin: 8:55

And you know, yeah. And we are um embodying that and hoping to be trashier the older as we grow up. When I grow up, I want to be trash. Um, but speaking of growing up, then also, once more, a little bit of gay news. You're welcome here at America's Finest News Source. Um, did you know that the um Washington state legislature is currently proposing a bill that is the antithesis of anything going on in Florida? Big surprise. I mean, they're diametrically polar opposite states, both geographically and politically. Anyway, they are um introducing a mandate to say you have to teach the history of marginalized populations. And that includes people of color, people with disabilities, people who are neurodiverse, those from religious backgrounds, and of course the LGBTQ plus community. And that is good news for us. So let's hope it passes and spreads like wildfire so that we can bring it back to Dolly, have truth and authenticity authenticity in our history.

David: 9:56

What about the history of 44-year-old men who eat popcorn on the couch?

Gavin: 10:02

That, I mean, you want to talk about an undiscovered marginalized community?

David: 10:06

Yeah.

Gavin: 10:07

Yeah, that's us. Um Hey, what write up your history chapter and send it to the Washington State Legislature. And I want to see that. Uh, can we put that in our show notes or in our blog?

David: 10:17

Yeah, put it on our blog. We could take a time machine back to 2003 and put it on our blog.

Gavin: 10:25

Um, here is my perennial worry as a father is how much do you push your kid? How much do you say, no, get off the couch and we're gonna go do something that you're suddenly scared of? Because it's it takes a lot to try something new and get in new circles of people and and have to make new friends or just even new acquaintances. And so last year, uh my daughter said that she wanted to take tennis lessons. And I'm like, I'm thrilled to hear that. Let's do it. We go, she sees uh we basically scouted the lesson. She said, Those are five-year-olds. And I'm like, sweetie. First of all, they're not five, but sweetie, you don't have the tennis skills. So you need to start here and work hard. You suck, girl. You suck. Girl, you suck and you need to work hard so that you don't suck and move up a level, right? So uh last night, just last night, I took her, not kicking and screaming, but definitely stomping, pouting, and uh screen agering and just staring at her phone with full contempt as I drove her over to. That's good. Uh that's hers, screenager driving over to the tennis lesson. And um, she went in the class and it was exactly the same kids that I saw last week. They are not five years old, although a couple might be pretty close to it. But there were some kids for the middle school as well, and she had a great time. But believe me, driving over there, I was like, uh, maybe I just call her beloved. I say, nope, that's fine. Then you're not doing it. And by the way, I'm gonna take your phone away for uh an untold amount of time for to cure my vindictiveness and cynicism. But like, no, I stayed calm and I'm like, you're gonna do it. And I get it. It is scary to jump into new pools and to be in a new group of people. It is scary, but we can't let our kids just dictate that everything's scary so they don't do anything, right? Like it's a balance. Sometimes you do have to say, yes, your mental health is important and you draw your limits fine, but like that's everybody's problem, right? Like from toddlers to geriatrics, it's tough to try new shit. But yeah, I mean, what's the point of living?

David: 12:32

Right? I I we we put our son into swimming classes and it was pretty good and he was getting better, but then he was like, the pool was really cold. And every time we mentioned it afterwards, he was like, I don't want to go back. And I kept thinking, you need to learn how to swim. Yes. And then it's the same thing. We're like, do I want to carry him kicking and screaming every single day for six weeks, or do I just want to give myself a break? And when I give myself a break, there's all the yeah, yeah. No, I get it. Uh, the answer is whatever you do is wrong. That's the answer. Whatever you do is wrong. That's it.

Gavin: 13:03

In my case, she did her tennis lesson. She totally had a great time. She said, I sucked. I'm like, you didn't suck as much as some other kids. It's all right. I mean, yeah, but she found her niche and she had a good time. And she immediately walked out and I said, How was it? She said, It was fun. I said, Do you want to do it again? She said, Yeah, but I have to get new shoes because I cannot wear these shoes again next week.

David: 13:24

Be honest. Were you wine drunk watching her? Be honest.

Gavin: 13:29

No, but dry is over.

David: 13:32

So I was wine drunk afterwards. I'm doing no sugar February, and it's day two, and I want to jump off a bridge. So that's really fun. Anyway, um, speaking of jumping off a bridge, let's do our top three lists, shall we?

Gavin: 13:44

Gate three. Top three list, three, two, one.

David: 13:49

What is this week's topic? It's your topic. It's um no, it's my topic. It's my no, no, it's my topic. I it's I'm ready for it. I can we can introduce it just like the best of them. No, it's the top three things that your kid is gonna tell his therapist about you. Um, so it is my list because I knew that. And uh, so I'll go first. So um I'm gonna um make mine way nicer than uh the actual traumas on.

SPEAKER_03: 14:13

Oh, great.

David: 14:14

Uh, but the first one, the first one's pretty bad. Uh, and number three, I look at my stomach in the mirror every time I pass a mirror. Every time I pass a mirror, I look at myself, I hate myself, and I move on. And oh my god, my husband tries to kick me of this habit and I just struggle with it, and I know my kids are watching. So, number one is hating my body. Um, number two, um, I do a full out Eros tour performance of whatever music is playing during breakfast. Every single day I put Beyonce on, I put Winnie Houston, I put some sort of music that is dancy, and I do a full Broadway caliber performance for these children, and they look at me with such disdain, like, sit down, you old piece of shit. So uh number two is dancing during breakfast.

Gavin: 15:03

Truly with disdain, they look at you, or just annoyance.

David: 15:06

Or my son is now in the phase of like, if I sing along with him or sing along to the music, he's like, Stop singing, stop singing, or stop dancing. So he just looks at me like, stop dancing. You are too old for this. Um, and and number one, the thing that my kid will tell his therapist about me is that I lie about so many things that I'm gonna have to unwind. So, like things like spicy water, that's not what seltzer water is called. Um the ice cream store is closed, no, it's not. Uh, the ice cream truck is out of ice cream when it plays music. No, it's not. So I'm gonna have to unwind a bunch of lies that I just told him out of convenience uh when he's older. So that's my number one.

Gavin: 15:42

Well, it's universally relatable, that's for sure. Okay, so for my top three things, my kid is gonna tell their therapist about me. Number three is they grew up in a house with only one bathroom. Oh my god. I mean, how do you do it? We are talking about the entitlement factor of my kids who I'm like, listen, I didn't exactly walk up hill both ways in the snow to go to school, but Jesus, you have it good. So, yes, what a terrible life you led because we have one shower. I am so sorry to hear that. Number two, this is embarrassing. I'm not gonna lie. And this is a we don't we don't have any listeners, so it's fine. You nobody cares. Because I'm an a lunatic about my kids eating vegetables. We were at this hamburger place years ago, and they had broccoli on the menu. And I knew the hamburgers take forever because it's one of those overwrought, over-dramatic hamburger places. And in the meantime, I said, Oh, let's have some broccoli as an appetizer.

David: 16:36

Well, the drama This is when they like the soy sauce and they threw up and you eat them anyway.

Gavin: 16:40

Okay, thanks for shitting on my number two. Yes.

David: 16:43

My kid, you just tell the story and I'll just I'll cut that.

Gavin: 16:46

My kid, that's fine. That's all right. We can we can be authentic like Dolly and show that you're not a good thing. And you're less editing for me and show that I'm a monster. We're showing what an asshole you are as a co-host. Anyway, yes, my kid ate the soy sauce drenched broccoli, barfed it, and then kept eating it at my not insistence, not the barfed up stuff, but I mean the rest of the broccoli. He still suffered through it. And I remember his face looking at me like, you're a piece of shit, and I'm gonna tell a therapist about this one day. I'm gonna tell my therapist about having to hear that story because that makes me traumatized. And finally, number one, that I yell too much. Context, context there being, and I do not think I yell that much. Anyway, uh years ago, we used to live across the street from a uh high school for kids who are disabled have special needs, et cetera. And my daughter was explaining to her friend, oh, that's a high school for special needs. And she was very young, maybe in preschool. And her friend said, Oh, what do you mean by special needs? And she goes, Oh, well, special needs. Like some kids can't walk, some kids have special needs like me. I have glasses. And my dad has special needs because he yells too much.

David: 17:58

Oh wow. That's harsh times. I won't ever forget that. All right, what's next week? I uh completely forgot to think of one. Um wow, guys, this is the real Gaven. Talk about authenticity.

Gavin: 18:12

It is. I'm back on the booze, I'm back on the sauce, meaning caffeine, booze, and chocolate. And so now I've lost my brain power.

David: 18:18

All right, next week will be top three reasons why we should fire Gaven from Gate Yorks.

Gavin: 18:25

So today's guest is a pioneer in the surrogacy economy. Uh, he was has served as the CEO and partner of Growing Generations out of Pasadena since 2001, when he was a high school intern, of course. And he's got his hands full being a father to a 16-year-old. Holy shit, how do you do it? Helping growing generations grow and expand, including, I believe, international surrogate service, surrogacy services to parents, both gay and straight. And then also as a new Broadway producer, welcome Stuart Bell. Tell us when will the revival of Legally Blonde on Broadway be your top priority? There's only one answer, Stuart.

David: 19:11

So continue. Go ahead. Whenever you're ready.

SPEAKER_01: 19:13

It's actually a cabaret.

Gavin: 19:15

But I would love to be in legally blonde. I wasn't, I wasn't even going to go into that because what we care about most at Gatriarchs is legally blonde and when is it coming back to Broadway? Can you make that happen?

David: 19:24

But also, I want I don't want a new vision. I don't want a new cast. I want a replica from 2003, just picked up and put right back into 2024.

Gavin: 19:37

Well, please do work on that. Um, tell me, in all seriousness, how has your kid driven you crazy today?

SPEAKER_01: 19:46

You know, I would say today was pretty good. It's early here, so it's not over. But this morning went pretty well. I think the biggest thing he does that drives me crazy is he leaves clothes and shoes in the floor.

unknown: 19:59

And

SPEAKER_01: 20:00

So I make him pay me$20 every time he does it.

David: 20:04

Whoa! And that's a business man talking. Yeah, he still does it. But are you getting paid?

Gavin: 20:11

Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. You like stick with it. You're not just bullshitting. He really wow. This is a good business, Gabin. We need to get into this business charging our kids for being dirty. Stuart, if you employ us to come and nag him about his clothes, can we keep the money? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. That is that is some serious incentivizing and also some serious 2023 business there. But speaking of 2023, then I want to jump straight into Growing Generations and the surrogacy industry because also for full disclosure, this is embarrassing. I didn't mention that we went with Stuart and Growing Generations for our surrogacy journey, which was, of course, amazing. And Stuart was one of the first people I met in the process. And he walked us through it all and we asked all of our very huge questions about what the hell is this journey all about? And um, and uh you can tell why it's a successful business, thanks to Stuart. But tell us, you've been with Growing Generations for, oh my gosh, a couple decades now. How would you say the surrogacy landscape has changed in those decades?

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

Well, I mean, I think when we first started, it was very taboo and people didn't know much about it. And so um, you know, you would tell someone, I remember I met my husband 21 years ago, and I remember when I met him and he said, What do you do for a living? I was almost embarrassed to say because I would have to explain it. But now I think everybody in the United States knows what surrogacy is because celebrities have done it, they've been open about it. And so I think that's the biggest change is it's just very normalized. When did that change? You know, I I think about 12 to 15 years ago we started seeing it change with some of the celebrities talking about their surrogacy experiences in the media. And um, you had young women who were maybe even teenagers reading articles in People magazine and going, Oh, I want to be a surrogate. Or you had gay men saying, Oh, I didn't realize that was possible. You know, we got our first story on 2020 in 1999, um, which showed um Will Holm and his family having their second child, and it was a beautiful piece. Barbara Walters introduced it, so that was really fun. And um they did a great job. But even back then, they felt they still had to have the other side. So the other side was some right wing guy that was like, gays shouldn't have children, you know. So you would never have that today. No, yeah.

David: 22:51

No, but that's like that's it's interesting too, is like, was the majority of your clientele uh straight people or gay people or both? Like, I'm could I'm interested about like the percentages have changed if they've changed.

SPEAKER_01: 23:02

So we started as an all-gay company. So we only worked with gay men for about the first 10 years. And then it was almost the opposite of what happens in our lives as gay men. We got a call one day from one of our gay clients, and he said, Look, I know this is out of the ordinary, but I have this straight couple that needs your help and they're really nice. Would you consider it? And we we actually had to talk about it. We weren't sure. And so that has been a big change. We started working with straight couples, and now it's about 50-50, about 50% straight, 50% gay.

David: 23:39

That's a it must feel good to be gatekeeping for the straights. Do you know what I mean? Just a little bit of retribution. Be like, I don't know, we'll decide if you can come in. How about that?

SPEAKER_01: 23:47

Yeah. Exactly. And and I will say, like, this was because she's 27 now. So our first gay baby, who was born to Will and Marcelin, and Will's the attorney that we work with for all of our clients, um, they had to find a doctor that would even help them, and most of the doctors said no. And the doctor who finally said yes said, You can't tell anybody I did it. That's how scary things were 27 years ago. And today, there I, you know, every doctor wants the gay business because we're trendy and we're cool.

Gavin: 24:25

So, how was uh growing generations different from other surrogacy companies over the years?

SPEAKER_01: 24:31

Well, I think we've always viewed a helping people who others wouldn't help. So first that was the gays, and then it was people with HIV, then it was single people, um people who didn't have a need for surrogacy. We have straight couples who could have their own children, and so there's a lot of discrimination in our field. And there are doctors that say, well, if you can if you could carry this baby, you should. Well, a lot of women may have anxiety about pregnancy, they're scared, maybe they have a career that's on fire and they don't feel like they can stop right then. So there's a lot of judgment. And growing generations has always tried to be a place that's like, look, we're not here to judge you, we're here to help you. And really, our only caveat would be if we don't feel like we could find a good person for you, if a surrogate wouldn't say yes to you, then we couldn't do it. But but we're not here to be the gatekeepers for anybody. And so that's been a big difference. And then also, you know, we're very service-oriented. And so um we feel our job is not just getting you a baby, but having you have a great experience so that when you leave the process, you go, wow, you know, this was really wonderful. And I got a perfect surrogate, and growing generations took care of me. That's what we live for. And we have people who have been at this company, like myself, for over 20 years. It's the kind of place nobody ever leaves. So it's a very special kind of culture that we have.

David: 26:02

That's so interesting to hear of people who could biologically reproduce or you know, have their own kids and choose not to. Like I'd never even considered that. But when you said, like, oh, the anxiety or whatever the medical risks or whatever, it is an interesting yeah. And I could see how those people would be maybe a little bit shunned because you're like, you can have your own kid. What are you doing here? Get out, you know? Super interesting.

Gavin: 26:25

Well, and then in your position as CEO, I know that in this case, it's growing generations isn't huge. I mean, it's uh you have to wear many different hats, I would imagine. What is the biggest challenge for you on a day-to-day basis?

SPEAKER_01: 26:39

Well, luckily I'm no longer the CEO. Um, we my business partner Teo became the CEO about 10 years ago. So when you guys were coming through, I was the CEO and I had a lot more headaches. But today, mostly my work is working with um, you know, telling people about the process. And then I do carry a small number of my own kind of high-level cases of celebrities or people who just need extra care. Um but Mo, I don't I don't think I really have any headaches except, you know, just calming fears. You know, as you know, going through this process, people are really scared. And especially the first time you do it, you're super scared. The second time, it's a little easier. So that's probably the biggest thing that I face is those phone calls where they're like, help, I don't know what to do.

David: 27:29

I really hope you didn't consider Gavin one of your celebrities. That would be really sad. That would be really, really sad.

SPEAKER_01: 27:35

You know, I did, and I actually saw Gavin in Priscilla, and I was just like, I got to go backstage. I was in heaven. So yes, he is one of them. Right.

Gavin: 27:44

That's Gavin, that's a big deal. Listen, I think Stuart is definitely somebody who uh treats extraordinary people ordinarily and ordinary people extraordinarily, I would say. You are so diplomatic because actually I kind of expected your response to be like calming fears and dealing with um uh people that I would have labeled as needy and demanding. Uh and you are far too diplomatic to do so because we know ain't nothing more annoying than demanding parents of uh expectant parents, newborn parents, toddler parents. Parents were the worst. We're the worst.

David: 28:19

But also, but but also I think what you have to deal with, you have this like twofold thing. It's like the used car salesman thing, where like there is a predatory nature to things that are highly emotional, right? Like the wedding industry, all that kind of stuff. So there is this weird predatory nature that you can feel going into it. But then also on your side, we as emotional people doing this crazy thing are already on edge, we're already acting crazy, we're already irrational. So you've got this really narrow tightrope to walk of like trying to make sure that you come across as somebody you can trust and also having to deal with the insanity of people sometimes when they get overly emotional like that. I I could never do it. I don't have the patience for it.

SPEAKER_01: 29:02

Well, I I think it's a lot of um improv. You know, I learned that especially when I first started working with people who are very wealthy or people who are celebrities, is um no can't be in your vocabulary. It has to be yes and. And so it's being where people are and and then stepping into their world, but then holding their hand and saying, well, here maybe is another way we could look at it. And that seems to work much better than saying no, you can't do that.

Gavin: 29:30

So on a much more superficial level, of course. I realize you cannot divulge all of the celebrities you've worked with, but can you tell us about totally fangirling out, about working with people that might render you speechless or uh just shocked to be in their presence?

SPEAKER_01: 29:49

If you Google Growing Generations and certain celebrities, it will come up. I can't personally say anything.

Gavin: 29:55

But we'll definitely put that in our show notes.

SPEAKER_01: 29:58

Yeah. But you know, our experience by and large has been that celebrities have been great to work with. Um, we treat them just like everybody else, um, sure in the way that we care for them, but we also give them the space to create kind of a customized approach that may work better for them. For example, you know, they may need to be anonymous to the surrogate for the first period, maybe the first, you know, quarter of the pregnancy or something like that. Then it becomes more comfortable for them. But um, you know, celebrities are used to having people do things for them, and we're really good at doing things for people. So it seems to work pretty well.

Gavin: 30:40

That makes sense. But come on, have you ever been like, oh my God, I can't believe the conversation I just had, or holy cow, I can't believe I'm talking to this person, even knowing you went through the introductory interview, not showing your sweat whatsoever, but were you fangirling out after?

SPEAKER_01: 30:57

Yes. Um, there have been a few times I have been invited to people's homes, their private homes. Um, or like one time I did a meeting at the Beverly Hills Hotel in a suite because they didn't want to be seen in a doctor's office or something. So, yes, definitely I've met extremely famous people and I've been in delivery rooms with them, you know, where their baby's been born. And that's where you see that we're all the same. Because when that baby is born and you see their faces, they are not celebrities anymore. They are parents. And but yes, I I certainly there's and and the great thing is nobody's let me down. You know, I I a few of the people that I was huge fans of, and I didn't tell them I was fans of theirs, but um, I was my biggest fear was that they were gonna end up not being very nice people, and they were all just great, probably because what we're working on together is you know a joyous process for the most part.

David: 31:56

Yeah. Just just in case our follower doesn't really know, can you quickly explain kind of what what what a surrogacy agency does? So, like for me, I did adjustational surrogacy twice. Both times we did it independent, so we didn't have an agency. So will you could just tell kind of us in general what an agency would do?

SPEAKER_01: 32:13

Sure. Well, you know, we find out what you're looking for in a surrogate, and then we find the surrogate, we screen the surrogate, um, we case manage the entire process. So you would have a team of people working on your case. Um, and for our celebrity clients, they usually get attached to one of the owners of the company. So I carry a caseload, my business partner um carries a caseload. So they often want us at the deliveries, we might have to hire security. So there's a lot of extra things that can go into working with high-level celebrities that we do for them as well. But in all of our cases, it's the full case management. You know, every aspect we're kind of managing throughout the process. So we're writing the checks, making the appointments, keeping everybody informed of what's happening.

Gavin: 33:01

I have to say that certainly worked for us. Um, though we didn't need security, obviously. But um it really was amazing to have an organization that was really taking care of everything. And so we didn't have to worry about anything. It was um it was quite a privilege to work with you all. Okay, so now tell us about your 16-year-old. Holy shit. How is that? How do you deal with a 16-year-old?

SPEAKER_01: 33:26

Well, you know, we're pretty lucky. He's an athlete and um, he's a basketball player, and that's his whole world. So we have not been in that situation where he's kind of gotten into any trouble. Um, he got more in more trouble when he was like in third grade than he does now. Um so um he's really a good kid. They had their formal last week um because they were out of school on Tuesday, so they had it on Monday night for some reason. I I don't understand. But um, he was home by 9:30. He said it was boring. So, you know, I would have been out drinking and smoking. Yeah, but he's he's a really good kid, but he's I think as I I mentioned, he's um a basketball player and he's gonna be going to IMG Academy in the fall for boarding school for his junior and senior year.

Gavin: 34:18

And is that a basketball-related thing? Is that why he's doing it?

SPEAKER_01: 34:22

Yeah, so it's uh you might remember it's the old um Bolotari, I think is the name, tennis school, um, where kids went in Florida and then they've expanded it. Um, and actually Endeavor owned it for years, they just sold it. So it now has all the different sports. So if your kid is a sports kid, it's a great place for them to go for camps or for school. So he'll be going to school there. And he's how do you feel about that?

Gavin: 34:49

Yeah, I mean, how do you feel about it, though? Obviously, you want to support him, but how do you feel about him going away at age 16?

SPEAKER_01: 34:56

I think the British had it right. This is the right time. Oh. All right. All right. Maybe even younger, but 16 is definitely the right age for them to be spreading their wings.

Gavin: 35:10

Now, did you when in your process with your husband and working at Growing Generations, did you say, yeah, I want to do this too?

SPEAKER_01: 35:19

I started at Growing Generations about 22 years ago or 23 years ago, and I met Alan 20 years ago. And so the first day we were spent together, he was like, What do you do for a living? And I told him, and he said, Oh, I know your company. Um, I actually am setting up a consult to meet with you guys. And I was like, Oh, wow, okay. Um, and so he was prepared at the age of 28 to be a single dad. And he was already pursuing it. And so um, when we got together, our big joke is, you know, he married me for a baby and I married him for a pension. So it worked out great.

David: 35:59

You know what's funny? We were talking prior to you jumping on the call about um earlier in the episode about you know, when you have a kid who is in sports or is doing something, that balance of how much you push them because you know it's good for them or uh it will eventually pay off later, and how much of the like I don't want to do you succumb to. It's hard for me because I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old, so I'm not at like tennis lessons, but I am at like swimming lessons, and the pool, the pool is too cold, and I don't want to, and I know it's good for him, but I'm like, where do where's that line? Have you felt like you've struggled with that line before?

SPEAKER_01: 36:33

You know, he had an epiphany a couple of years ago that this is what he wanted. And I've never seen a kid go after it like he does. We don't have to talk to him about anything related to sports, but what we do have to talk to him about is grades. So that's where we have to push. Because when you have a sports kid, the the school part of it, the education part of it, they don't care that much about. And so we've really had to talk to him about having a plan B. Um, if this doesn't work for him. And, you know, he said to me once, stop being negative. And I said, Look, I am not being negative. I'm being realistic in that have 95% of your focus on basketball, but 5% needs to be over here, where you're saying, okay, if I get an injury, if I can't end up doing this as a profession, um, is there something else in that field that you might enjoy? So for us, it's been more on the education side of pushing him to say you've still got to keep your grades up, you've got to get A's and B's, you've got to be able to get in college.

Gavin: 37:40

I always look at it as this is your job. Your job, my job is to keep you happy, healthy, fed, housed. Your job, the very least you can do is try your hardest in school. But I am trying. No, no, no. You are literally not trying hard enough. But um, yeah, it's the very least you can do. And somehow he's gotta earn that 20 bucks to pay for you every single time he leaves the clothes on the floor. So keep at it, kiddo. Um, so what has been uh luckily you have a pretty easy kid, but was he easy when he was younger? Or like you said, before third grade? How was uh his toddlerhood and early childhood?

SPEAKER_01: 38:19

Um that was actually really good. Um, he didn't start kind of having any issues at school till about third grade, and I think that's when the boys and the girls kind of separated and the boys started forming clicks and they didn't like this boy. And so that was a period that was not so much fun. We got called into the principal's office, and um you know, they actually they they put four of the boys, including my son, in what they called, you know, jail where they had to go in another classroom to do all their work. So but but you know, again, that's minor compared to you know what I've heard other things happen. You know, we're in this nice private school where you know they're gonna be pretty good to the kids.

Gavin: 39:06

So uh yeah, jail at this school is probably gonna be a pretty sweet setup, but they don't realize that because you know it is what it is. Well, what about I'm sure that there were um horror stories from your early uh fatherhood. Um we because we do love a good horror story from toddlerhood.

David: 39:24

Yeah. Tell us when something just went all wrong.

SPEAKER_01: 39:27

Well, I think one of the funniest things, he was probably about um, I don't know, maybe a year old, and we had gone up to San Francisco um and we were staying in this beautiful suite at the W. And our two of our friends came over who didn't have kids yet, and they they wanted to see us and see the baby and all that. So I could tell he had had a dirty diaper. And so I went to change it. And you know, you I put him on the bed, and my friend comes over and she's watching me do it, and um, he wasn't done. Yet and it was explosive diarrhea that went started spraying everywhere. And I I screamed to my husband, I said, Alan, get a towel from the bathroom. So he runs into the bathroom, he comes out with the towel, he sees it, he throws up in the floor. So I have one that, yeah, it's ridiculous. So I was like, I can't even with you two. Because I don't have anyone in this room that isn't ejecting liquids from their body. Can we just please? And then our two friends ended up never having a baby. I think that ruined it for them.

David: 40:34

You know, they were like uh I feel like the human population would reduce drastically if we were really honest about the goings-on behind the scenes. Um speaking of, my daughter this morning had to have one of those morning baths because when she woke up and we opened up that diaper, my husband, I could hear from the other room, just went, nope. And then I heard the bathtub turn on. He's like, no, no amount of Kirkland wipes can quell this fire.

Gavin: 41:00

So that's nice. So, Stuart, um, I am curious. One more question about Growing Generations is I know you've gone through a lot of changes over the last couple of years uh with expansion and refinement and whatnot. What is on the future do you envision of uh the surrogacy um uh world and what is growing generations working towards in the next three years or so?

SPEAKER_01: 41:24

Well, we have partnered with a company called North Star Fertility, which um has kind of put us together with other brands of kind of the best of that particular type of organization. And so, you know, right now we're really happy that we're able to offer opportunities at all different levels within one company. So it may be that you know you're a celebrity and you want to go with growing generations, or maybe you're on a you know more of a budget and you want a more fixed price opportunity, like with Circle. Um, we have a new egg bank, um, which is going to do some amazing things to kind of bring the cost down in that, but also provide really great quality. So I think our goal is to been offer as many opportunities to as many people as possible, and um that's what we're working on.

David: 42:14

Awesome. That's awesome. Okay, so we'd like to we like to end every interview with the same question, which is what is the best part of parenting and what's the worst part of parenting?

SPEAKER_01: 42:24

The best part of parenting for me, um, it changes as they grow. You know, so when my son was little and I was taking him to school, you know, we would walk out the door and he was holding my hand, and I would say, Quentin, I have something to tell you. And he would say, You love me? And I would say, Yeah. And that was like every day. And that's like the best memory I have. Now, the best part of parenting is um seeing him actually make his own decisions and do the things he wants. Because we would never have sent him to boarding school. This was his choice. He was like, you know, can I please go, Papa? And I looked at him, I said, Well, I just had taken the tour. He had been at camp there, and I said, Well, they actually want you. And the look on his face, when you can get that look out of a 16-year-old where they are like, Oh my god, yes, I want to go here. So that's the best part. Um, the worst part, I would say, is just the complete lack of appreciation for anything that you do.

David: 43:29

Yep. Yep. Cleaning up diarrhea, sending them to boarding school, yeah. None of it. No gratitude whatsoever.

Gavin: 43:37

Uh, we hear you. We hear you. Um, one final question. You are obviously in the business of giving advice, frankly. I would imagine you constantly have to give advice. What is your advice to um parents of newborns?

SPEAKER_01: 43:51

Well, if you can get as much help as you can, you know, in the beginning, because it is really, really hard, whether that's a family member or whatever, don't try. I think a lot of first-time parents think they need to do it all themselves to prove something. No, you don't. Hillary was right, it takes a village. So just accept that. And um, and the other advice I would say is every stage has its pros and its cons. And it's that's still true today, you know. So um, you know, I actually kind of didn't want my son to get diaper trained because it was so easy, you know, to just handle the diapers. And then when he got diaper trained, when he was diaper trained, then it was like, oh my gosh, we got to find a bathroom, you know, yep, you gotta pull over on the side of the highway.

Gavin: 44:38

We have to, you have to teach your kid you gotta hold it, you gotta hold it, you gotta hold it. It you're exactly right. Diapers are it uh it keeps you on your schedule. It's much more convenient, frankly.

David: 44:48

But what you motherfuckers forget is that these diapers are expensive. Do you realize how expensive diapers are? And if you don't have one on you at all times, that's when the explosive diarrhea happens. I of course I tell the story all the time. Like, I have carried my child naked out of so many moles, it would blow your mind because I never think ahead. Like, make sure because I always go, we're just gonna pop in for 10 minutes. I don't need the diaper bag. I don't want to bring a whole diaper bag, but then you fucking forget it. But I also know my four-year-old is is is potty trained and it's the same way. We're about to get in the car for 20 minutes. Do you need to go to the bathroom? No, five minutes in. I have to go to the bathroom now, or I'm gonna pee my pants. Yep. Yeah, yep. So not even five minutes later, and it's always extreme.

Gavin: 45:30

Uh yeah, Stuart. Thank you so much for frankly making our lives more possible and better as parents. Truly, you are a pioneer, and good luck with dealing without your kid next year at boarding school. Holy shit. But most of all, thanks for joining us.

David: 45:49

Yes, thank you. Thank you. So, my something great this week is it's gonna start off bad, but daycare has all the days, right? There's the hundred days of daycare. Oh, you have to dress up like an old person, and then so the 101st day is Dalmatian day, of course, obviously. And so you have to dress like a Dalmatian, and kids are fucking dressed in the night. Anyway, so I'm I'm not I'm not buying a costume. So I said to Emmett, I was like, We're gonna dress in black and white, and you're gonna be a Dalmatian. He goes, Okay, he did not want to wear any of the white clothes, so he's wearing all black, and I said, Well, Emmett, we have to have some white, so it looks like and he said, I'm a Dalmatian who went through the ashes in the fireplace. I'm a dirty Dalmatian. And I was like, That's true, that is a great workaround, and you're a fucking genius. And so all day he's like, I'm a dirty Dalmatian, I'm a dirty Dalmatian, and it was fucking adorable. So there's more to unpack. I'm a problem solver, right? Absolutely.

Gavin: 46:45

Absolutely, absolutely, and everything and life is a little more fun when you're a little dirty anyway. Uh, my something great is just that I was right. I was right. And last night, when my daughter went to bed and I was saying goodnight to her after our tennis drama that turned into tennis happiness, she did say, she turns to me and she said, Okay, dad, you were right. I'm glad I went today. And I was like, you know what? That's all you need to hear once in a while, right? How do you not relate to her though? How do you not be like, yeah, bitch, I told you? Like, how do you Well, I I probably did I didn't say I told you so, but you know, my smirk was condescending enough that she knew she knew. And that's our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

David: 47:38

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFM Vaughn everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on nothing. Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, and we'll spike the football next time on another episode of Gatriarchs!