The one with the Military Dads - Part Deux!

This week, David is still going on and on about the Groundhog Musical on TikTok, we talk about not being able to restrain your kids anymore (please don't call CPS), we go over our top 3 moments in gay history, and we are lucky to be joined AGAIN by Brazil's best gay Dads, Will Silva and James Issac, who update us on their new life as gay dads, our new daycare idea, and what they think is in store for the next 9 months of their lives.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

Gavin: 0:00

Thanks. And we'll make your hips not lie. Nope. That's you were like, I was like Shakira? Nope. Nope. It didn't come out the way I meant it to.

David: 0:10

And that's wait. And this is Thanks.

Gavin: 0:15

Wow. My hips don't lie. My hips don't lie. Thanks. And we won't thanks. And we won't lie to you with our hips? No. No, no, no, no, no, no. And we'll we'll make your hips lie. Thanks. And we'll make you feel something in your hips.

David: 0:32

Oh, that's a good one. And this is Gate Juggs. So remember how my something great last episode was the Groundhog musical?

Gavin: 0:56

I hope all of our listeners out there went down a serious rabbit hole because I know I did, because I didn't know about it.

David: 1:03

That was highly entertaining. That's good, right? So now, I don't know if you've seen this, but now not only have there been multiple singers doing multiple parts, but now somebody added a full orchestration to this thing. Somebody got on their MIDI controller and created like strings and trumpets and like it is this full fucking musical. And I saw some people doing like non-singing talent where they were like ensemble member in the background. I was just like, this it this app is so full of smart and funny people. Yes.

Gavin: 1:38

Oh, it's the best of times and it's the worst of times.

David: 1:40

It couldn't be better said. Um, I anyway. So for those of you who are following the Groundhog musical, it's amazing. And now there are full orchestrations too.

Gavin: 1:48

And we can't wait for the original writer. What's his name again?

David: 1:51

Oh fuck. Uh Oliver Richmond, I think.

Gavin: 1:55

Oliver something.

David: 1:56

Yeah, yeah.

Gavin: 1:56

We can't wait to have Oliver on as a guest. Oh, that's a good idea. Fantastic. That's a really good idea.

David: 2:01

I don't know if he's gay or a dad, but who cares, right? This is our show. We can do it for real. See no limitations. We it we we embrace all here. So let's talk about limitations a little bit because I have been experiencing something this week that you have already experienced and it's new for me, which is a lot of parenting for me when it comes to limiting my kids, right? Access to the fridge, um, don't go outside, whatever like the physical limitations are that you keeping the knives out of their way or whatever. I'm finding that my my son, who's four, four and a half now, is now I can't physically restrain him in the way I used to. And I don't mean like I can't beat him up. I could should could for sure beat this fucker up. But I mean like he's tall enough without standing on a stool to reach on the countertop all the way to the back. I used to put like knives on the back or or cookies or whatever I don't want him to touch. He is so capable. I'm watching him grab chairs from the dining room and bring it and unlocking things. And so I don't know what to do now that I can't physically restrain my children anymore, other than I just have to rely on my negotiating skills, which are terrible. What do I do, Gavin?

Gavin: 3:14

That's uh I did not realize that's the turn that this was gonna take because I saw in our outline you talking about physical restraint, and I thought you meant literally holding him back, like if he's getting mad or angry or sad or something. No, which I had a whole tirade to go on for that. This is a pivot I wasn't expecting. But in terms of, yeah, hiding, keeping stuff out of reach and and restraining their physical reach. Ooh boy. I mean, I don't know.

David: 3:37

They reach and their access too. Like my front door has like a lock that's hard to turn, and it's been locked whenever I don't want them to leave. And now he can unlock it. So I have to rely on either being around him 24-7 or him knowing you can't go out front without a parent.

Gavin: 3:51

And figuring out those trust issues and and knowing that they have their limits and they they self-impose them and they're not gonna go out without asking. Oh, I you dude, you are out on a raft with that one. I don't do. I mean, I gotta say, I've never had a runner. Neither of my kids has ever tried to sneak out. Oh, hold on. We did have a but this is completely different. As a 10-year-old, we had a sleepover a couple of weeks ago, and my partner got up in the middle of the night, as one does, walking in the bathroom or something, saw flashlights outside the house at 2 30 in the morning. And we were we hit the roof, and then we're like, I don't know. I mean, they weren't gonna do it anymore.

David: 4:35

Wait, was it your kids outside the flashlights? Oh, okay. You didn't finish the story. I was like, where's the SWAT team?

Gavin: 4:39

What the fuck was happening at your house? No, it was my son and his friend, and they just decided we couldn't sleep. So they went outside to play flashlight tag. Now, admittedly, we live on a dirt road. How many times do I have to say that? We do admittedly live near a huge body of water, but I'm not worried about that anymore. So um it was like, uh, it's not that big a deal. Now, if my two-year-old, I know somebody, dear friend, hopefully longtime listener, hi Paul, whose son sleepwalks. They got a call in the middle of the night, middle of the night. He ignored his call, his phone, because he's like, you know, who knows what it is. And then their landline rang, which is something that would wake you up in 2024. It was their kid in a panic calling from outside on the streets of New York City, calling from somebody's iPad. I don't know. I don't know how to unpack that part, but somebody at one or one or two in the morning was like, little boy, why are you outside on uh 86th Street barefoot? Because he sleepwalked out of the house, out of the building, took the elevator! Wow. Uh-huh. Didn't realize it until the door clicked shut and he panicked, realizing he couldn't get back into the house.

David: 5:50

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. West 86 or East 86? East. Oh my god. Oh, Jesus. He could have died. Wow. That's terrifying.

Gavin: 6:01

And so now they have an alarm on their door in case somebody opens it from the inside. Not to keep people out, but to keep the children in.

unknown: 6:09

Wow.

Gavin: 6:09

Yeah, bonkers, huh? So, but I've never had that worry. And now I do, of course, thinking, oh great, one of my kids is gonna sleepwalk out into the uh a body of water behind.

David: 6:19

Or murder you. Like go to the kitchen and grab a knife.

Gavin: 6:22

You hold keeping those knives out of the way, I don't know. I these are not things that keep me up at night. I have so many other things I need to worry about, like, you know, democracy and gratitude.

SPEAKER_04: 6:33

So Jesus.

Gavin: 6:34

Well, to make you feel even more paranoid about the world, I've got some bad news and some good news, and then some bad news from the world of, you know, the gay world, all right? So I know that you don't believe in newspapers and news and whatnot. So luckily I'm here for you to be America's finest news source, right? Wow. I am a news junkie, but continue. Guess what? In Russia, they're now blaming their invasion of Ukraine on the gays.

David: 6:58

Yay! We finally did something.

Gavin: 7:01

We are the cause of, you know, Russia being able to justify its invasion and murder of, you know, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians because they needed to squelch any semblance of the gay agenda, even in Ukraine. So, you know, you're welcome. It's our fault. As if Congress needed more reason to support these people, or more reasons to apparently not support them. Okay, thanks a lot.

David: 7:23

One side of the aisle, but I've said this before, and I'll say it again. There are two items on the gay agenda: cruising and brunch. Brunch. It is not about invading Ukraine at all. Come on, people.

Gavin: 7:36

And it is not about recruiting people to be gay either, because y'all, we're fine with our population. We're good.

David: 7:42

We got enough gays. We want no more gays. Gays, the gay, it's still we've reached our quota.

Gavin: 7:46

We've canceled, we're canceling any more gays. Yep, no more gays. Well, on the good news, I will say, guess what? I have some good news from Florida. No such thing. Where apparently there were some bills um outlawing the removal of any monuments. So, of course, you know, like monuments to Confederate Wars um heroes and whatnot. They that bill has already died in their statehouse. And I would say, and even more importantly, some bill, bull, some bullshit bill that was gonna ban flying of any kind of flags that would be offensive to anybody un-American, in, I suppose, in any location, probably. Luckily, that has died a very good death for this year, anyway. So that's good. Hopefully, you know, you can raise your pride flags as high as you want to across the entire state, luckily.

David: 8:29

Until next year. This is the same feeling I get when you were talking about the Vatican, where you're like, oh, but this is good news. I'm like, yeah, but like what we're looking at it from the point of view of being at the bottom of the dumpster, and you see like a half-eaten bowl of chipotle. Yeah, that's good news, but you're at the bottom of a dumpster. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? The person above the dumpster who's eating fresh chipotle is looking down on you, like, what the fuck are you happy about? Dumpster, yes. I hear you. It's good for people of Florida, but oh man, it's hard for me to get excited about Florida. For those of you who don't know, I grew up in Florida. So um, yeah. Anyway, but you know what is good? Tell me. Our top three list.

Gavin: 9:09

Oh Gatriarchs, top three list, three, two, one. And what is that top three list? Let me remind you. That top three list is I want to hear about your three favorite moments in gay history. Mm-hmm. So herstery. Or herstery, absolutely. That's uh good. Do that too. Um, so I'm gonna say, now that I know that this is a huge topic, and I was I my top threes are always kind of like, what comes to mind first? All right, just what comes to mind first. And uh, I'm gonna tell you that my number three favorite moment in gay history was He-Man. Period. Just He-Man. There you go. Uh, number two, the Greg Luganus story. Uh I watched Greg Luganus hit his head in live time. When was that Barcelona Olympics or was it LA? Anyway, I remember seeing it live and um thinking, oh, that poor man, and feeling a little something for that guy. I don't know if it was anything down below or just like feeling a brotherhood there, but there was a brotherhood there. And as um, as you know, as he came out later, he wasn't out then, but um, as he came out, I don't know, there was just this little sense of like, this is a gay icon that um I have tracked along in my life. So he's one of my favorite moments in gay history. And then number one, honestly, learning so much from Harvey Milk when he made his rallying cry to gay people in San Francisco to say, you have got to come out for the benefit of all. You've got to come out of the closet. You've got to let families and friends know that they know somebody. So that specific episode of Harvey Milk's rallying cries is um what comes to mind right now is my favorite moment in gay history.

David: 11:03

What about you? Well, um, as we expected, yours was very serious and like good for the people of mine is silly and stupid.

Gavin: 11:12

I mean, come on, He-Man. I started with that. I started. That's true.

David: 11:14

You did start with He-Man, don't you?

Gavin: 11:15

Please tell me tell me your superficial and trite favorite moments of gay history.

David: 11:20

All right. And number three was when Chris Evans released his dick pic in 2020. For those of you who don't know, uh, Chris Evans was doing like a, you know, what's that heads-up game where you have like your phone or whatever, and there was a video of him doing it. And when he like phone came down, it reverted to his last screen, which was this camera roll, and people stopped the video, and you could see in one of the grid was his cock. And it was all the fucking gay news of 2020. Listen, this was COVID, right? So everybody needed his dick. Everyone needed that dick to just bring us out of this hole we were living in. So um, I very much appreciated Chris Evans' dick pic. And I what I love about him so much is not only was it a big gay moment in history, but also the next day he tweeted, I was off social media for the day yesterday. What did I miss? I so appreciate somebody who just fully embraces like, yep, I uh I have a dick pic out there. So number three, Chris Evans. Uh number two, 2013, when Beyonce released her secret album in the middle of May. Yes. I really. You remember that? Yes, absolutely. I was there. Nobody can keep secrets anymore. Uh-huh. And somehow this bitch made her whole shares her fifth album, her whole fucking album in secret and released it in the middle of the night with not a single fucking peep. Even with videos, right? Like it was a whole, it was start to finish, one giant piece. Every single thing had a fully realized music video. Yep. Oh, that was that was that was iconic for sure. Okay. And number one for me, the most iconic moment in gay history. This is for the olds. So for the young people, skip ahead 30 seconds. 1998, real world Seattle. Okay. When Steven ran to the taxi as Irene was leaving and slapped her in the face. Do you remember this? So there was a character named Steven on the show, and this girl named Irene, and Irene was leaving because she was having medical problems. But Steven and Irene fucking hated each other. But Steven was so obviously gay, but very much saying he's straight, and he would make homophobic comments like all the time. It was like a he's a fucking asshole. And at the very end, when she was walking out the door, she was like, said something about like, you're gay and whatever, whatever, whatever. And she walked out of the house. Steven ran after her, walked, opened the cab door, and slapped the bitch in the face. It was it was fucking monumental the way people talked about this. But here's the T that motherfucker came out as gay years later. Oh, she was right. Irene, you were right.

Gavin: 13:54

So I hope she feels real vindication over that.

David: 13:57

Yeah. So that was my top three moments of gay history. And what will be our next uh top three list for next week? So next week comes from our listener. Um so Daniel uh uh DM'd us on Instagram saying some very nice things, and he also had a suggestion for a top three list. So I said, Daniel, you got it. So Daniel um and his partner are going into surgacy, and he wanted us to do the top three things that you worried about during surrogacy that ended up not being a big fucking deal.

Gavin: 14:24

Great.

David: 14:25

Love it. Thank you, Daniel. So you guys um are our first repeat guests. First ever. Oh my god, I feel so honored. And so in celebration of that, normally I write this like intro and describing you, and we have all these prep things. I was like, let's go into this because you're like in the Gay Sharks family now. Let's just like jump in and just be like, hey girl, welcome. Let's have a chat. So this is James and Will, and you guys are our fit military dads from episode what 150,000 episodes ago.

Gavin: 15:00

Well, I mean, yes, we're proud to say we are now at fifth episode 53. Yeah, you got it. And um, and you guys were episode, hold on, I have it right now, 15. All right. 15. I was gonna say 16.

David: 15:13

Wow. Wow. It was our quintineta episode.

SPEAKER_00: 15:16

Yeah, we said we weren't even legal back then.

David: 15:19

You were not even legal. Yet we had you on. Now you are big girls with your own babies, and you have to be both legal and responsible. Big girls with your own big girls. So, for those of you who weren't listening at episode 15, you guys, you're a military dad. You guys are actually one of our highest-rated episodes, and most downloaded.

Gavin: 15:36

If you're and in fact, um, why were you so downloadable? Can you guys actually give us the quick and dirty for why we had you on? Yeah. What's it just your background, how you ended up in Brazil, how you met. Just give us the quick and dirty there. Especially the dirty.

SPEAKER_04: 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 15:50

It's probably because we um were pregnant with twins and potentially with a third that was going to be born like five months later. So uh unfortunately, maybe you know, we had a miscarriage there, but um but the twins have been a handful.

Gavin: 16:10

So let's get let yeah, we are definitely gonna get into that handful. But a little quick reminder also for those who weren't listening back in episode 15, but obviously they're gonna go back and listen now. How did you end up how did you meet and how did you end up in Brazil?

SPEAKER_00: 16:24

Uh we met on uh Adam for Adam, which was uh the uh the the grinder uh beta test. Love it.

David: 16:33

Basically, uh it's basically smoke signals back then.

SPEAKER_00: 16:36

It was basically like it's like, oh, he's got some locked photos, and yeah. But uh yeah, so so we met on that uh and you know uh it was like actually pretty uh pretty PG uh, you know, just met up uh or you know, messaged each other like, hey, there's a block party going on. It was New Year's Eve, so let's go to the block party. We met there. And uh you know, we were both in the military back then, and um that was the simplified version anyway.

SPEAKER_03: 17:06

Simplified version that's okay has the full story.

David: 17:09

I was about to say those of you out there who want to hear the full disgusting story, full of all the all the details, please go back and listen. But you guys do we're both in the military. This is post Don't Ask Don't Tell. You guys met online, you had a little New Year's Eve romp, which I love the story behind that. Please go back to listen to that story, it's really funny. And uh uh and yeah, and then you guys moved to Brazil. Why?

SPEAKER_04: 17:32

What why not?

SPEAKER_03: 17:34

No, no. I mean, like the the brief is just that it's the easiest thing for us to do. We both have like small pensions from you know having been in the US military and getting like very partial retirements that don't really do much for us in the US, but here in Brazil with a five to one ratio uh exchange rate, um it it like it's a living relatively comfortably.

Gavin: 17:59

So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03: 18:00

Yeah, really.

David: 18:02

So that's the main reason, but so you guys are rich basically, and so as rich gays, as the rich gay housewives living here of Rio. Uh-huh. I mean, the barking dogs in the background really sell that that image for me.

SPEAKER_00: 18:16

Well, we gotta keep the pores out.

David: 18:17

Yeah, you gotta absolutely, yeah. Those are your porekeeping dogs, yeah.

Gavin: 18:22

But I mean, you are definitely live another lifestyle there for sure. And I would imagine, okay, I want to hear all about how the neighbors are reacting, but please tell us what's it like?

David: 18:34

Welcome, daddies. Welcome, daddies. Wait, so wait, really quick uh context from before when we recorded your episode, you were going to have twins soon. So you were pre-parents. You guys were not parents yet. I remember pre-interviewing you guys in Wisconsin when I was working in Wisconsin, and you guys were like, Yeah, we're gonna have these twins. I don't know what's gonna happen. And then before your episode aired, the the girls had been born. So I I added that little thing in. But now you guys are parents and you look wonderful. Um, what's going on? How is it?

SPEAKER_00: 19:06

Yeah, I mean, we've been parents gained some weight. Yeah, nine months now. So they've you know they've officially been with us longer than they were, you know, in the womb. In the womb.

David: 19:15

So and you had twin girls, right? Twin girls. Via gestational surrogacy. Yes, yes. Yeah, and and what sorry, what is their what are the names again? Catherine and Talia. Catherine and Talia. And so what's it like being dads?

SPEAKER_00: 19:31

Uh so you're probably gonna hate us, but I think we have the easiest babies ever. Yeah, that's okay.

David: 19:38

Yeah, I mean my first one was a totally easy baby, the second one not so much.

SPEAKER_03: 19:43

Look, okay, there are definitely some things that are easy. Yes, like they're both super chill, like they don't really cry much. Uh Catherine cries when she's hungry. That's it. Like, she does not cry at all, like for other things. She tries to communicate to us, but not crying. And Talia just doesn't cry. But like I would not say easy. Like the first six months were absolutely very difficult.

SPEAKER_00: 20:06

Like on this on whole, on whole, like comparatively speaking. They've been chill chill babies.

David: 20:13

Yeah, I mean, but like that's that's the thing. It's like there's there's the part that is them, right? That they're chill or they don't cry a lot. And then there's the parenting part, which is just the same all around, which is like those first three months are fucking awful, period. Whether you have a good baby or a bad baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:28

I would stay up until like 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_03: 20:30

until I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore just to well, I don't know if you guys knew that uh Talia was in the the uh NICU for 46 days, and she has hypotonia. Yeah, it's a long time, and she has hypotonia.

Gavin: 20:43

So re remind us what that is.

SPEAKER_03: 20:45

It's just low muscle tone, and normally it's something that's associated with like it comes from something else. Like oftentimes it's like a syndrome of some sort or like cerebral palsy or something, but sometimes it's just alone. And we've done all the tests that we can, and it seems like that's all it is. Um but she couldn't suckle originally, like I had to like, you know, like help her be able to suckle and swallow, and like it would take two hours to feed her a two-ounce bottle at the beginning. Oh my gosh. And you know, then you feed the other one, and by the by by then it's time to feed her again. Like it's just like we had shifts, like it was it was difficult.

Gavin: 21:25

And in helping her actually suckle, then does that mean that um was it f super frustrating for her too, or was it her normal? Like, would she cry because she was so hungry and trying so hard? Or was it okay?

SPEAKER_03: 21:38

She doesn't, she didn't, she still hasn't cried.

SPEAKER_00: 21:41

So like she's she's cried when she got her vaccinations. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_03: 21:46

That was so painful.

David: 21:47

Is it because she's an anti-vaxxer, pro-trumper? She has she uh she's like, I don't want these Elon Musk chips in my body. Yeah, she looks great in the red hat, no 5G.

Gavin: 22:00

Well then to also take us back. Um, what was the what has been the biggest surprise that you just didn't expect about parenting?

SPEAKER_00: 22:09

Uh so the biggest surprise for me is that I could still find you know this little goblin like cute as it's actively shitting on me. I was gonna say poop too. There's so much. So much.

SPEAKER_03: 22:27

Yeah. Even if do you even after you've seen videos and pictures, there's just it's uh it's unending.

SPEAKER_00: 22:32

Yeah, like you just you clean it up and then you like it's like, yeah, you're still cute. And that I would never think a guy that I brought home is cute after he shit on me.

David: 22:44

Yeah. Yet there you are. There you are with Will. I mean, literally, what like you know, dreams do come true.

SPEAKER_03: 22:51

Wait, what are you trying to say?

David: 22:54

But but isn't it amazing how like things that like shit or vomit or whatever that you're like, oh god, this is gonna be awful, can just now not become a thing. Like I'd I like I can literally be scooping uh you know the sh diarrhea out of a vagina, and I just don't even think about it. I'm just like, wait, let's move on.

SPEAKER_03: 23:12

Speaking of vaginas, I remember you trying to like encourage me about how it's just gonna be okay, and it's like you know, you're gonna get through this. And like honestly, that was surprising. Even with all of your like comfort and reassurance, I still like you know, got to the point and I was like, all right, here you go, it's done. And just it was nothing. I was fine, everything was fine. And I was kind of surprised by that.

David: 23:38

And and and I I brought it up, and I'm glad you're bringing it up now because I do think this is a very, very, very common thing for us gay dads who are about to have a daughter to either secretly or publicly be slightly nervous about. And I even recently for at one of my daughter's pediatrician appointments, I was I had to be like, I feel a little weird asking this, but I'm not sure if I'm cleaning her enough and how far in I should go. And I was I was like, it was great as a baby, but now she's getting older. I was like, and so she was we had a great pediatrician who was like, all right, here's how I do it. She like showed me her hand. She's like, this is how far, and like all that stuff. But but it's true. Like, then you clean a couple of vaginas and then you're like, good to go, people. Here we go. No longer afraid of it. But yeah, no, it is a common fear of the gays.

Gavin: 24:24

So then speaking of fears, then also I'm curious. Um, was there other bullshit advice that David fed you guys uh 10 months ago, nine months ago? Bullshit advice.

SPEAKER_03: 24:34

Look, I I'm not I'm not gonna necessarily say that David was the one that said this because I can't remember for sure. It's probably Gabon. It was him, it was David about time going fast.

Gavin: 24:45

No, that was Gabon. Time going the days are long and the years are short, or what?

SPEAKER_03: 24:51

Yeah, well, the time the days are the days are incredibly long, were incredibly long. Like, yeah, it's getting better now, like things are going faster now, but like at the beginning, that was not good advice from anybody that said it. Like, and it's not like just you, but it was or whoever said it, but everybody, like all my friends are like, oh, it just goes so fast. You wake up the next day and they're like 49,000 years old, and I'm like, no, I wake up the next day and they're like two days old.

Gavin: 25:15

Like, yeah, the days are long and the years are short. And when you look back on it, you're like, oh my god, I can't believe I already have a nine-month-old. But man, you think you've you you have exhausted all of your patience. You have been as creative as you possibly can, you have been stimulating your child for what feels like hours, and you realize, oh my god, it's only 7 18 in the morning. And I still have 12 more hours to go. And when will this fucking monster go to sleep so I can go watch TV again?

David: 25:43

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I I watched a TikTok that was talking about it's a lot of things like you're saying, Will, about like, oh my god, I'm uh I'm gonna you'll miss it, and oh my god, it goes by in a flash and they're 20. And and and from our perspective, I you know, my youngest is two, but still I think you don't remember this the way you think you do. You are remembering three or four moments per year that you liked where they hugged you or you had a birthday or whatever. You are not remembering that feeling of the slog of the day to day where you just feel so guilty that you're just staring at the clock. But it only happens when you're a little further ahead and you have five, ten years because I right now I was actually gonna talk about this next next episode, but I I I I was watching one of these videos and I went to Costco because I go to Costco. And um, there was a woman there with a one-year-old. I know, I'm a responsible mom, the with her one-year-old or whatever, and I just looked at the baby and I was like, oh my god, I miss that size baby. Yeah, and I was like, I have a two-year-old, but even that distance from one to two is monumental, yeah, and I could never have seen it at nine months. So there's no way I would ever shame previous David because there's no way previous David could have possibly done what older David wants, and now older Gabin. I mean, Gabin is so old, but like Gabin with a 12-year-old is saying the same things about my four-year-olds. Yeah, and it's just it's impossible to see that way until you've done it.

Gavin: 27:18

I spent my entire morning volunteering in my kids' fifth grade classroom, and the first graders walked by, and I just went, oh, because they're so teensy compared to some fifth graders. So yeah, just you wait, just you wait. Are there other surprises that that have just caught you by um off guard over the last nine months? I mean, I know it's endless, but what else has surprised you?

SPEAKER_00: 27:40

Uh so surprises. Um I'm I'm actually I'm fairly surprised, and this is just the culture here. I'm I'm surprised at like how it just cool people are with you know a couple of dads with a couple of daughters. Yeah, that's actually been really surprising.

David: 27:56

Uh you talked about because you're gay dads? Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 27:59

Right, because yeah, like it in a culture where you know it's it's pretty normal for you know children to you know come off their mother's hips sometime right before marriage. Um there's not a lot of people asking, you know, coming up and asking, oh, where's where's the where's her mother? Or you know, where's their mother? Yeah, so it it's it's actually pretty pretty refreshing, you know.

David: 28:24

Yeah, that has to be. I mean, I think having kids could be a great equalizer in a way. We're like we're all parents kind of a deal. Yeah, that is that is surprising for me, who's somebody not doesn't live in Brazil, that you haven't run up against a little where's the mom.

SPEAKER_03: 28:36

Right, yeah. And and and it's more like our area, because we do actually live in a pretty poor neighborhood, and like it's more that kind of mentality where it's like gays, I don't know, you know, like that's what's more surprising. Like, if we lived in a big city like Sao Paulo or something like that, I wouldn't even expect that. But here I think we did expect it, and it's been nice, like James has said, to not have that. Like people are just like, oh baby, and yeah, they're just happy to do that.

David: 29:05

I mean, I live in New York City, and I whenever I see a gay, I'm like, oh no. So tiring. Yeah, it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_00: 29:11

No, I'm I'm fairly I'm fairly certain that our cleaning lady also runs one of the local gangs and is um so we she's have everything.

David: 29:20

Go.

SPEAKER_03: 29:21

She's our cleaning lady, she's our nanny, she's one of the girls' godmothers, because we didn't even understand how godmothering worked, so we just like picked two different ladies for both of them.

Gavin: 29:32

Anyway. Wow, and you already had a good enough relationship with her that you were like, hey, we're the gays who have kids, and will you be our godmother?

SPEAKER_00: 29:39

Yeah, she's she's been she's been with us for years. Yeah, yeah. That's great. She's been with us since we but wait, drug cartel, please. Yeah, we what we do need. What's going on here? Yeah. No, I mean, probably not a drug cartel. Not no, no. But I mean, she needs she seems to know everything that goes on everywhere at all times. She really does. She knows.

David: 29:57

Just like the neighborhood watch.

SPEAKER_00: 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 29:59

I don't even know if I should say this.

David: 30:01

Say it. We have we have we have eight listeners, and you can see two of them.

SPEAKER_03: 30:05

Okay, look, listen. Um, so she worked, she's told me about lots of her past like uh jobs, you know, with other people that she's clinged for. And there's this like lady that's from I think Germany or something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 30:17

Oh yeah, the drug runner.

SPEAKER_03: 30:18

Yeah, so look, so she's like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like she wandered into this like basement room that they don't have basements in Brazil for one. But this house did, right? It's in this weird, like, enclosed condominium thing. And she wandered into the basement and found like all sorts of like weird stuff, including weapons, and just like, please do not anyway. Um, so she, you know, she did the smart thing and ignored it, blah, blah, blah. And like this lady has had her like put money into her account, like large sums of money. And she just over time, she's been telling me little bits and little bits, and I'm like starting to put things together, and I'm like, I think she might be a human trafficker, and I'm just like, and she's like, Oh, I still she's really good people, and I still talk to her, and I'm like, Yeah, I'm glad you don't work for her anymore.

Gavin: 31:06

Like, yeah, it's like good thing you chose wisely for a godmother because she will protect your babies with her life. So she chooses if she sees something, she says nothing.

SPEAKER_03: 31:16

She she knows what to look for. No, no, no, no, no. She loves, she loves, like, she, yeah, anyway, she's obsessed with the so if you need to edit that. I don't know if that's kosher to say we love it.

David: 31:28

No, we're keeping that, we're leading with that. That's not getting with the interview.

Gavin: 31:31

Now, in this case, also, as a nanny, then, or as a much as she's part of your family, does she show one daughter more favor than the other?

SPEAKER_00: 31:39

Actually, not really.

SPEAKER_03: 31:41

I don't think so. She does she okay. So, look, James is anti-favoritism. Like, sure, he doesn't believe that anybody has favorites, but it's like my mom, the grandma, right? She obvious to me, it's obvious she favors Catherine. And our nanny, it seems pretty obvious to me that she favors Talia.

David: 32:05

So she she is a money launderer, so what can you trust with?

Gavin: 32:11

And so has your family been down to like visit and take care of and stay for a couple of weeks? And you have like the full family on board, right?

SPEAKER_00: 32:19

Well, no, uh, none of my family has been uh been here yet. Just it's it's you know, it's hard. It's hard to get to Brazil, you know, you just for we don't come from money wealthy backgrounds.

David: 32:30

Uh you guys are rich in Brazil, but in the United States.

SPEAKER_00: 32:33

Yeah, different story.

SPEAKER_03: 32:34

Yeah, and we never were like we've always been.

SPEAKER_00: 32:37

We're rich enough in the States to afford a drug runner nanny. Ironically I like it here in Brazil.

SPEAKER_03: 32:43

Ironically, though, my brother is actually in town visiting from the US, so that is the probably the first like from the US visitor we've had. Yeah.

Gavin: 32:53

Okay. Yeah. Um But everybody's on board and extite excited to have the girls in the future. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:01

But yeah, my my siblings want to meet the girls more than they ever want to see me again. And uh nice. That's yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_03: 33:10

They're like in love.

David: 33:11

It's great. We love it. It's beautiful. That's sweet. So what is your now that you guys are parents, now you're officially parents, and you can say we're we're in the club. Who are we though? What you uh well as well. I listen, I'm a 42-year-old. I don't know if I actually feel like a dad yet. Right, yes. I still feel like I'm waiting for that.

SPEAKER_00: 33:28

Yeah.

unknown: 33:29

Yeah.

David: 33:29

But anyway, but now that you're le I mean, I I mean, I am, and and he calls me dad, and I respond to that, and I see other parents, and I'm like, we're all parents, but I don't feel like I feel like I think about my parents, like those are my parents. I don't feel I feel like the guy who feeds them beef jerky and stuff, but like feed them, keep them alive. Yeah, but I I yeah, it's a big name. But uh what my question was gonna be what now that you're a parent of you know twin nine-month-old girls, what is your favorite part of parenting so far? And what is your absolute least favorite part of parenting so far?

SPEAKER_00: 34:04

I think my favorite part of parenting is probably everybody's favorite part of parenting. It's like where you, you know, it's eight o'clock at night, you sneak into their room to check that they're still sleeping, and they're fucking out. Out like spread out, full spread eagle, arms out, hands open, just like they're not waking up for another six hours.

Gavin: 34:29

So that you're that's your favorite part, one, because they're so beautiful, or two, because you think, oh, awesome, I can go do whatever I want for the next six hours. It's a both.

SPEAKER_00: 34:41

No, I you know, another favorite part is is the lead up to it. It's you know, where you're you're getting them all calm and cute and you know, you know, rocking them and cuddling them and things like that. Like, you know, it's just it's it's nice bonding time that you know it's easy to do.

SPEAKER_03: 34:57

They're they're still and remember because the even though they are nine months, like they were born like basically two months early. So they're they're premature, you know, and Talia is I know this is not like an official term, but she's like more premature even. Um, and so like they haven't gotten to the point where they like, you know, like give you like a hug and say, hey, hey, like they don't talk yet, right? Like, so you know, a lot of those like cute moments that we're like obviously like very like positively anxious for. Um, you know, like we're still waiting for those moments, but like it's still like absolutely adorable. Like when we go in there, like you said, sneaking in, and it's just like there's they're sound asleep, and it's just like so peaceful and beautiful, and to know that there are, you know, that we're the ones in charge, and just like I don't know, it's a it's a really difficult experience. I think for me, my favorite thing is the growth, like like the ability to do things beyond what I thought I was capable of doing. I'm not a confident person, I'm not decisive. Well, I wasn't, and but when it comes to the girls, I am. Like, I remember at the NICU, Talia was having trouble suckling, and there was a team there, they like rotate shifts and stuff like that. And there was a team that um wasn't very good, and they were like, Oh no, she's not doing it. We're gonna have to put her back on the to the feeding tube. And I was like, uh-uh, no, you don't. She'll eat it. And and they're like, uh, well, uh, no. And I'm like, give give me the bottle, give me her, I will feed her every last drop of this bottle. And who am I to say that? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't know that I can, I can't guarantee that, but I did, and I fed her and she ate it, and it was perfect. And that's one of the reasons we were able to get her out when we did. Um, and that's just not like anything I would ever have done before that. And seeing that kind of like I don't even know what you call that, but just it's it's incredible to to know that that can come from you.

Gavin: 37:00

Those tiger dad instincts definitely come through. And anybody who says gay men are not capable of being all aspects of a parent, uh, don't understand um what parenting is about because we do have those instincts. And you absolutely nailed it.

David: 37:15

Well, I've I absolutely felt the same way you did, where I was surprised at how suddenly confident or brave I was in situations that I worried about. Um whether it maybe it's the protective instinct, the tiger dad, as Gavin said, whatever it is, and like how suddenly I watched it with my husband, it was one of the biggest surprises where my husband's a little more like uh he doesn't love brand new things he doesn't understand. And when he was becoming a dad, I was a little like, oh, how is this gonna go? And from the second they were born, he picked, he just did just so fearless about it. And it was pretty amazing to watch. And the other thing I was gonna say is that if I'm being totally honest and and you know, safe space, I loved my kids the second they were born, but it changed, it was like in my head a little bit. It was a little bit more like an uh and then it just started to kind of travel down my body as they got older and older. And when they started recognizing me and giving me back because I'm an egotistical maniac, I found my love. I found my love growing for them, widening in a way. That's how I am too. Yeah, and I was surprised and I felt guilty about it that like I loved them differently. It was just a it was just a growth of my love, but it was for sure when they started recognizing me when I walked in the room or saying da-da, or hugging me back instead of me giving everything to them. So I totally get that.

Gavin: 38:34

Those months of of sleep deprivation where you were just giving and giving and getting nothing in return is really, really rough. And I also had that thought of um, I don't yet have the love of jumping in front of a bus for my baby sense. And I worried about that, and I don't remember how long that was, but it but then you quickly get over that and you do feel the I will jump in front of a bus eventually.

SPEAKER_00: 38:56

I think I think you've you like at a certain point you've sunk enough time into these children that yeah, I mean, jumping in front of a bus feels you know, pretty natural.

unknown: 39:06

Yeah.

David: 39:08

All right, so now on to the worst parts.

SPEAKER_00: 39:11

Yeah.

David: 39:12

Uh worst part. Did you just pull out a big list? It looked like you were reaching over to pull a scroll. Yeah, like a long scroll that you're gonna dramatically.

SPEAKER_00: 39:22

Yeah. Um honestly, so you know, we love all of the women in our lives. Um but the worst part is you know some there are there are times when we have multiple women over, and they're all like we're just I'm trying trying to change my daughter's diaper, and I'm having two women talk over each other trying to tell me everything I'm doing wrong.

unknown: 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:50

And it's it's that's universal. Can you please walk away?

David: 39:54

Like And and I don't know if Gavin can speak to uh the twelve years of this. I can only speak up to four. Years because I had the oldest, my oldest is four. So far, it hasn't ended. It's just changed at each phase. Like, oh, well, this is the kind of kindergarten they should go. It hasn't changed. Gavin, does it change? Actually, yeah. I don't feel like people give me advice anymore.

Gavin: 40:15

They they know, I mean, I've established it. When did that stop? Yeah. No, I it probably is when you finally get to school, though. And um, and then you have the competition factor of like the one-upsmanship of saying, Well, my kids started pre-algebra today and in their third day of kindergarten. But that's so it's not so much advice giving or unsolicited advice, it's unsolicited competition.

David: 40:39

Unsolicited competition, yeah. I think I'm gonna boast about how dumb my kids are. I'm gonna be like, my nine-year-old still thinks Elmo's real. Nice. Okay, so so what about you, Will? What's the worst part of parenting so far?

SPEAKER_03: 40:54

Um, that part is pretty bad, but like um, I think you know, the fear is still there. Like, uh, you know, just as much as I said like confidence in the thing that I found in myself that's like the biggest, like surprise, this is like the fear, like, oh my gosh, like at any moment they could just like Catherine is starting to move a lot, and you know, it I'm just the it's she's constantly there. Like, is she gonna fall? Is she gonna like learn how to jump all of a sudden and flip over the the uh crib? Like like the constant fear for them, not like I don't know, I don't know how to explain it other than that, I guess. That is probably like I've not like the same thing as before. I wasn't ever really a fearful person, like I would do very daring things and just not really care. Um now it's like I'm even worried, like when I go out, it's like okay, I need to be sure that I'm safe driving because I don't want to hurt myself and not be able to care for my kids. And that is so weird.

Gavin: 41:59

Like there's an instinct there that realizing you have to be more responsible because you have to keep you have to get that kid to its uh to her 18th birthday or whatever. So you become way more conservative and and obsessed with uh I found myself often obsessed with my own yes mortality, thinking I cannot abandon my kid, so I have to be careful. Here's the thing if Gavin can do it, we can do it, is what I'm saying.

David: 42:25

Low bar, baby, low bar.

SPEAKER_03: 42:27

It's true. I just I guess I just miss being like that adventurous, daring person. Like I like doing all those crazy things.

Gavin: 42:33

You'll you'll find it someday, or you'll just get old and not care anymore.

David: 42:36

Yeah, or you'll get old and die alone. So who knows? Who knows what will happen? Wow, that's reassuring. Oh yeah. Um, so uh the last thing I want to ask you um is what do you think the next year is gonna be like? So we asked you um prior uh to you becoming dads, we gave you a little quiz about what you would and wouldn't do with your kids about iPads and chicken nuggets and stuff. I'm curious to what you think the next year will be.

SPEAKER_00: 43:01

Uh so alright, next year will be. Well, um they're you know, they're they're coming up on a year old. We're we're looking more at solid foods and you know, kind of they're they're both eating so you know a bit of solid foods here and there and and just growing and expanding on what we have done and have to do uh you know in regards to them. Um as for you know, keeping them stimulated, keeping them entertained and and things like that, you know, obviously you gotta mix it up. Uh we've experimented with Doja Cat. They love them, they love her. All right.

SPEAKER_03: 43:37

They love Doja Cat. It's crazy. We'll put on something different, and they just nah, but Doja Cat, love.

David: 43:44

You're trying to make those kids gay. I can see it. You're trying to make those kids queer.

Gavin: 43:48

Yeah. You and your gay agenda. Yeah, you love all agenda.

David: 43:51

Yeah, yeah, that's what we're doing.

Gavin: 43:53

Um and do you um and you are, I mean, you're I don't know, do you consider yourself semi-retired or just like or you're just dads all the time? Okay, right. So you're hands-on the entire time. Are you already counting the days to be like, uh, can we get some daycare up in here?

SPEAKER_03: 44:10

Yes. Well, and so we're actually looking at it now, right? Uh, we're looking at all the different things about daycare and what's the benefits and what's the better ages and everything, just because like socialization is something we've already tried to like start doing, you know, like meeting other people and babies and kids and things like that, but like when do we you know do that, right? Um, so I think that is something that's coming in the future. Um, but like for me, I think our our next year is going to be a lot of like we haven't baby proofed yet. Oh, yeah.

David: 44:47

Yeah, because it's usually when they start walking and then yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:50

I'm a I'm a firm Darwinist.

David: 44:55

You want to taste that bleach, baby? Go right on ahead.

Gavin: 44:57

I don't know about the electric plugs and the electric standards uh in Brazil, no judgment, but uh keep those forks away from them. Do you um speaking of socialization? Do you have any kind of like a mommy club that you get together and sip Chardonnay and stare at your kids or a daddy's club?

SPEAKER_00: 45:12

Or what is it? I mean, the daddy's club, the daddy's club is just the bathhouse.

David: 45:16

I was about to say the kids aren't allowed there yet. They gotta be these tools. They have to be able to swim.

SPEAKER_00: 45:21

You can ship such you can sip Chardonnay there, though.

David: 45:24

Um you should open a bathhouse with like an adjacent daycare for the dads who would like to still go to the bathhouse if they want their kids in a safe place. I love this. Guys, we are creating your idea. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03: 45:37

Dude, you got this.

David: 45:39

Let's work on it. We'll work on this off camera.

SPEAKER_03: 45:41

But do you have a network yet?

SPEAKER_00: 45:44

Uh not necessarily a network of um, you know, fellow parents or anything like that. You know, I mean the it's the age of the internet, like, you know, you have questions and you can get answers. Yeah. You can get all the answers, whether they're right or wrong.

SPEAKER_03: 45:57

We have like some friends that have kids and things like that, but they're not really the same age. And like, so we'll have like talks and things like that, but not really like a mommy daddy thing.

David: 46:09

Well, you guys have been literally, I get I feel like I get more messages about your episode than a lot of episodes. You've been one of our favorite guests. You're our first repeat customer, which we were very excited about, and you're now members of the Gate Sharks family. So we want to have you guys back for a third time, maybe in a year, when the girls are walking and talking and rooting your lives and screaming at you and telling you you're the worst parents ever. I cannot wait for that part. Yeah, that'll come up in the next year.

SPEAKER_00: 46:36

Yeah, I do want to point out you uh one of you, uh I can't I I think it might have been Gavin did ask a question and laughed at me when I answered it. You asked if uh if the girls were going to sleep in bed with us at any time. And they are they are nine months old, not once.

Gavin: 46:53

Good for you.

SPEAKER_03: 46:53

I mean, I think that's a good thing. I've tried, I've tried, but he's like, no, we gotta stay in the and they're at the we've been like on it with the sleep training, and they're great. Like they're great sleepers.

David: 47:05

Like they don't mess with what is not broken. We did the same thing, like, not a single day on my bed. I know there's people listening out there being like heartbroken because they just did like belief you, yeah. It's like right, everyone, especially with sleep training, it's very polarizing. But like I I that's great. I think that's great.

Gavin: 47:22

Do you have proof that you actually have children? Because they are not, they did not make an appearance here on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 47:27

They are with their grandmother right now.

SPEAKER_03: 47:30

We were like, we were like we didn't I didn't realize you guys wanted us to. Oh no. Well, we want pictures for sure. We can send it to the page. Yeah, we'll send you tons of pictures. You can put it for you can put it up for the channel. Oh no. No, thank you guys so much. And David, uh, thank you so much for like staying um in contact with us on text as well. Like you're just whenever we have any questions and stuff, like I'm like, you're the kind of the first person that comes to mind. Oh besides the internet, but so it's the internet and then me.

David: 48:01

So I'm just underneath Google. Yeah, I'll I'll take it honestly.

SPEAKER_00: 48:05

Just underneath Bing.

David: 48:07

Like, no, no, that's an insult.

SPEAKER_03: 48:10

What the heck?

David: 48:11

Wow, the Alta Vista. Wow, you really hit me hard from the side. You're a hundred. I don't even know when I'm so young. Uh we love you guys. Thank you guys for you. We love you guys too. Thank you so much. All right. So this week, my something great is you know, we've we've talked about before how children are mirrors. And usually I say like ugly mirrors. Well, they'll do something where you're just you're just like, oh God, they learned that from me, and that's a terrible thing. And I'm embarrassed. Yeah. Well, my my two-year-old did something really sweet, and it was a mirror moment, and I thought, oh, this is something great. And we read books, obviously, like a lot of people do right before bed. And she wanted to read like me. So she read in a way, like kind of in the the way I sit in the chair, and the way I turn pages, and the way I look at her and I ask her questions after every page. And so I watched my daughter Hannah read a book as if she was me. And it was one of those moments I was like, yes, children, we'll listen. And you hated yourself even more after? No, I didn't hate myself. It was actually something great. If I hated it, it would have been in the top uh act one where I was ranting about something. But for this week, Hannah uh reading as me was my something great.

Gavin: 49:22

That's awesome. And I'm sorry, I shat on your something great. As usual. Mine, very simple this week because we had it a snow day. And I am so grateful to be in a place where luckily they haven't said, you know what, we're not gonna have snow days anymore. Instead, we're just gonna go online and have online teaching, which is definitely what's happening in a lot of places. I'm grateful for snow days and the adults and the board of ed people. Well, they don't make any decisions about snow days, but the superintendents who are like, you know what? Let's just go have a day to play.

David: 49:52

Love a snow day. And that's our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments for David, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

Gavin: 50:03

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFM Vaughn everywhere, and Gavin is at Gavin Lodge somewhere in Brazil.

David: 50:14

Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, and we'll make sure our hips don't lie next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.