The one with TikTok'er Owen Squires

This week, Gavin punishes his kid for being sick, David is weirded out by American Idol, Gavin thinks everything is "gay," and we are joined by TikTok'er Owen Squires who schools us on gentle parenting, pandemic stay-at-home Dad'ing, and why he doesn't have more tank top videos.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

David: 0:00

Do you want to start or do you want me to start? Is yours funny?

Gavin: 0:03

Uh hold on. I don't even remember what I wrote. What did I write? Why'd I keep all this shit? Gavin books on Sick. Yeah, it's all right. Is it ever funny? I don't know.

David: 0:15

Yeah, I mean that you're you kind of got a point there. And this is Gatriarchs.

Gavin: 0:33

So we had a good track record in terms of sickness this year. Um, really good track record. In fact, I definitely just fucked that over and jinxed it, didn't I? We're gonna be out with pneumonia for the next few months.

David: 0:44

But anyway, you're gonna get scurvy in a week.

Gavin: 0:47

My kid was home from school uh for two days in a row um because of fever. And uh it wasn't that big a deal, luckily, but it was it was questionable. I mean, it wasn't really a high fever. In fact, I verified with our principal, you know what is technically the temperature you're hope is supposed to keep your kid home at?

David: 1:07

Ours at daycare is 100.9.

Gavin: 1:09

You know, I was being reactionary. It was like 98.9, and we're like, oh God, it's a fever, which is dumb. It's like I've lost my spidey instincts, right? So anyway, we kept him home at far too low a temperature. And he was fine, but I'm but it was definitely like, okay, if you're gonna stay home, it's not gonna be fun. And so uh anticipating that we were gonna have a second day, I pulled out a whole bunch of shit that I've kept for like those sick days, being like, oh, here's some books from my childhood that you'll find really interesting.

David: 1:40

Here's some puzzles. You're talking about like the Torah, like the original Torah. Got it.

Gavin: 1:46

Correct. Correct. And um, and some puzzles and some like activities for a rainy day that I hold on to, but in particular, shit that I held on to from my own childhood, which I thought at one point was gonna be uh like, oh, this will be so cool. The only time my kids will ever think that's cool is maybe when I'm dead, and they find it and they go, Oh, that's kind of cool, and they throw it away. I don't know if it's just my instincts. I'm not a hoarder, but I am nostalgic. And I I don't know, I'm nerdy and interested in history. And I thought that my kids would be remotely. No.

David: 2:28

No, it's gonna be it'll the only time that'll, like you said, it'll be right after your funeral. They'll go home, you know, you serve food to all your friends, they all say, I'm so sorry for your loss. They all leave the house and then you go through dad's old stuff. Then they will find it slightly interesting, but it's still going in the garbage.

Gavin: 2:44

Yeah, it's going in the garbage, but I mean, uh like yeah, so I just was left there thinking, why did I keep all this shit?

David: 2:54

Like uh, yeah, I uh I feel like our generation feels the same way about our parents who were really into keeping furniture. Like furniture was something you would pass down to your kids, like, oh, it's the it's grandma's china cabinet. And I know all of us in our or my generation, not your generation, um, but all of us in our generation are are very much like unattached to furniture. So they were so proud to hand down this thing that they thought was meaningful. Yeah, and then we look at them like they're pieces of shit, we throw it in the dumpster, and that's probably really hurtful, but it's true, like culturally, like I don't give a shit about a curio cabinet. Yeah, but to them it was super important.

Gavin: 3:29

And uh, there are a lot of toys that I did keep. I mean, my like I said, my mom kept everything.

David: 3:35

We've we've discussed that, and um but a lot of my old toys, like for those of you who didn't listen to that episode, we're talking about the tip of Gaben's penis, his mom kept his foreskin from his circumcision. Check whatever episode that was to go back to that.

Gavin: 3:52

Just Google it. I'm sure our SEO is spectacular right now, it'll be easy to find. So, you know that um the telephone that you pulled from the early 80s with and the little eyes went back and forth. I had one of those originals, and now you know, of course, Fisher Price remakes the new ones, and I'm like, ha ha! I got you, corporate America. I have mine from 1983. And um, and I mean, certain things like that worked when they were kids with little toddlers, they didn't know the difference. So I I do feel like I totally screwed over corporate, the like the toy um uh industrial complex.

David: 4:26

But you know what I miss about books of that time period is books back then, when you would smell them, they'd make you have to poop right away. Do you know what I mean? That smell of like raw wood book. Like books now, they're like plastic covered and whatever. Those old books, man, just one big whiff, you're in the toilet.

Gavin: 4:43

Excuse me, I gotta, I'll be right back.

David: 4:46

Um, speaking of toilet and garbage, um, not not terrible transition. This has nothing to do with that. Um, I get about 45 minutes of television a day. And that's from when my oldest goes to bed until where I'm ready to go to bed around 9:15. Right. So we tend to watch like throwaway shows like Survivor and Amazing Race and American Idol and stuff that like it's enjoyable enough, but I'm really just scrolling on my phone.

Gavin: 5:08

You're so disconnected from actual quality American TV.

David: 5:11

Which is hilarious because I work in television, I create television, and I just don't have time to watch it. Right. But what's so funny what we noticed about this season of American Idol, if you're watching, is that there have been two different people. Hold on.

Gavin: 5:23

I didn't even know American Idol was still on. I'm just gonna leave put out that out there. Okay, please.

David: 5:27

Yeah, they took a big well, because so it was the original American Idol with like Paula and Randy and Simon, and then it went off the air for a while, and then it kind of came back in this new version. And the new version had Katy Perry, um, Lionel Richie, and Luke Bryan as the hosts, and they are fucking amazing. Anyway, the show is the show, whatever. But two people have come in, two separate people who were adopted. And you know, they always do those like packages of their you know, sad story or whatever. Sure. And both of these people came on. They were like, I have an amazing family. I love my adoptive family, but I've always been curious about where I'm from. And both times American Idol surprised them with their birth parents or like their birth mom or whatever. Shit, really. And it was like this wonderful, glorious rep like reunion of like, hey, oh my God, my my and and one time somebody goes, My real mom is here. And all I could think about were these poor people's moms who raised them hearing that, yeah, hearing the excitement of reuniting you and how fucking awful that must feel. These are not people who are having a bad life and who are missing a good life. These are people who have been raised in really great families. They love their families, they're cheering them on. But something about their birth family, and I don't have listen, I'm not adopted. My husband's has siblings who are adopted, so there's a little bit of closeness there, but my kids are via surgacy. I don't know how this feels, but it felt fucking awful to watch. Yeah, that feels dirty.

Gavin: 6:59

I mean, and your show, but did I what I need to know is did the adoptive family also get some airtime, or was it just about their real family?

David: 7:10

No, the adoptive family were the ones who were there. Like, you know, they have people on the outside of the room waiting to see if they get their whatever. So they're there, they're in the B-roll, they're in the package, they're in all of that stuff. But they talk about like wanting to know my birth mom, which I get. Like I get your like, where do I come from, whatever? But the idea of saying my real mom and also the weirdness it must feel to be the the the adoptive parent. I don't know. I mean maybe this is maybe I'm overthinking this, but it was really weird to watch twice on America.

Gavin: 7:39

I mean, talk about early 80s and needing to poop. This definitely reminds me of what a transition. I can't wait. Afternoon um syndicated talk shows that so much of that was about, you know, like makeovers and real families and birth parents. And I feel like that is definitely an element of my childhood that is it's it's like television, what do I want to say? It's like trauma porn, but not trauma porn. It's like, I don't know, sensationalist porn that you just think uh this is you can't turn away from it, but you really wish you would.

David: 8:11

So is that searchable term on Pornhub? Because I tend to go for very, very, very different, very different things. Uh if if you are adopted or come from an adoptive family or have adopted kids, I would be really curious to know if you watch American Idol and saw this, what your reaction is. So please email us gateriarchspodcast at gmail.com. We're really curious. I'm really curious. Gabin doesn't give a fuck.

Gavin: 8:36

But what I do give a fuck about is what's in the gay news today. Well, there's only one bit of gay news that I have to share here at America's Finest News Source, which is Beyoncé covering Dolly. Oh my god. Now my God. I know everybody listening to this already knows, but let's have a moment because that is fucking cool. And there's so much discussion, obviously, around Beyonce and her so-called country album, but as she says, it's not a country album, it's a Beyonce album. But how fucking cool. Two queens. I mean unabashed queens.

David: 9:10

The supernova that this gayness is creating is going to just it's going to set the planetary orbits off in a totally different direction. There's so much gayness here. Yeah. And for better. But like also what I love about it, beyond like two gay icons, two gay queens, two whatever, what I love about it is a newer, I mean, Beyonce is a little older, but like a newer artist throwing respect and love towards an older artist who is not in her genre. I fucking love that shit. Yeah.

Gavin: 9:38

Also, uh yeah, I mean, it's it's pretty awesome. And I mean, I wonder how many people have reached out to Dolly to be like, can we cover your music? And of course, there's Dolly covers all over the place. I mean, come on, Whitney Houston, and I'm sure a million others, and I'm just showing my lack of gay card where I'm like, I don't know how many other people have covered her stuff. Maybe Dolly's an open book and everybody covers her, but this is just this is another level. It's badass. So frankly, it's incredible. Plain and simple. That's the gay news is Beyonce and Dolly. So amazing. That's good gay news. I have uh what would you do?

David: 10:09

Wait, for everyone who is curious, I found the 2021 London cast recording of this. I will play for you what it's supposed to sound like. Ready?

SPEAKER_00: 10:24

What would you do?

Gavin: 10:28

Nice, but I'm still I I I take your note and I discard it, and I'm just making what would you do? My own. Yours is better. Here's a s scenario. You've got slightly older kids, let's say, you know, between 10 and 12. Okay. You're having a little discussion, and um, one kid asks another kid, oh, do you do XYZ? And the kid says, No, that's gay. What would you do?

David: 10:56

No, I need you to sing it before I answer that question.

Gavin: 11:00

What would you do?

David: 11:03

Now you're just now you're just switching up the intervals to piss me off. Um this is a really great what would you do? Because we, you and I for sure grew up in this time period. Hell yeah. But it's still, it's still I have said this. I have said this a million times. And so I think what I would do is not treat it as this vicious mean thing to the sayer, but I would correct it. I think I would go, do you mean that's stupid? Because you know, gay and stupid are different. I would I would try to slightly separate the two. I wouldn't, I don't think go into like this is hurtful and gape it. Like, I don't, I just I don't know if they want to hear that, right? It's all at that age, you want to be dangerous, you want to be edgy. I would just say, do you mean stupid or do you mean attracted to men? And maybe embarrass them a little bit, and then I would leave it. Yeah.

Gavin: 11:54

This all um okay, so obviously I'm setting you up for something that actually happened to me recently, and I think it um resolved itself quite well, but it also reminds me of the time that I was sitting in college orientation. So in you know, 1961, and we had to watch a video that was essentially a DEI video that hey, welcome to college. You're gonna and you're gonna be introduced to people of all different stripes, right? So I don't remember anything about the video, but obviously it was about diversity of all kinds, right? And um, including queer people. And afterwards the video goes off, and the moderator says, Okay, so what did everybody think of the video? And the girl next to me goes, I don't know. I mean, I thought it was kind of gay. And I was like, Jesus, what did she just say? She was from California. I guess it was a thing, right? I did laugh at her and like we joked about, I guess I called her out and she we laughed about it. But anyway, this happened to me recently, obviously. Uh, one of my kids asked uh friend who was over, are you uh do you do a certain activity? And the and the kid said, nah, that's kind of gay. I was upstairs, but I heard it, and I was on that shit like stuff on shit. And I said, Oh, uh sorry, what did I just did I just hear you say that you thought I was kind of gay? And do did did you mean that you think it's kind of stupid? Now listen, even I sound passive aggressive in even retelling the story, but I think it was a great moment in me being like, whoa, do you mean kind of stupid, just like you said? Because we're I'm gay and I don't think I'm stupid, and you know, we're a house that has gay people in it, so I I don't know if that's the parallel you want to make, but I hear what you're saying. Right away, the kid was like, Oh yeah, sorry. And I moved on, but then I thought, what do I do about the parents? Um, because I do feel like one, I kind of I wanted to address it, you know, and in a very nice way, I really like the parents. Um, I was able to say, hey, just want to make you aware of something that happened here. And I gave just strictly the facts. This happened, I said this, just letting you know. And uh the parent was uh wonderfully mortified and also was quick to say that would not go in my household. And um, I we do nothing but have love, especially for people who have chosen to pursue joy and their true selves in their lives. And that she took it a step beyond what I was necessarily expecting it. And I don't fault the parents, but I'm glad we were able to have that text exchange. And um, you know, we'll hope that the kid learns something.

David: 14:26

Yeah, I don't think I don't think I would have reached out to the parents, but I I don't think it's bad that you did. But I definitely think the little nudge you made to the kid is so valuable because I think about a lot of the shit I used to say. Listen, I grew up in the rural south. Yes, you did. In the 90s. Um I I have said some horrific things. And just the little nudges from the very few people who were willing to go on that line really meant a lot because it did kind of go, oh shit. Oh, like even if I didn't change, just to know, because I think some people are afraid to do that, but I think it's a really good thing you did, which is surprising because you know, you don't do a lot of good things. Um, you know what is a really good thing we should do? Tell me our top three list. Gate three arcs, top three list, three, two, one. Um, inspired by one of my favorite podcasts uh called A Typical Disgusting Display, we're doing the top three live events you have seen or witnessed. Yeah. Um, so I'll start. Uh, number three for me was a touring production of The Who's Tommy when I was 16 years old. My mom bought us tickets for my birthday, and I didn't know what the show was. And I had seen a couple musicals at this point, like Cats and Fiddler and these kind of like old school shows. And then Tommy came through and my jaw was a gape the whole time because I didn't know musicals could do that. I didn't know you could have a rock band on stage and mirror pieces flying through the air and like guitars, and like it was just so exciting. And I just remember thinking, oh my god, this is this is cool. And that I credit that night to me spending my life, my professional life in the theater. So um, number three, the Who's Tommy, uh, which is now uh just reopened, I think, last night on Broadway. Yeah, I sure did. Uh number two, uh the color purple on Broadway. Uh huh. I unfortunately, when The Color Purple came back to Broadway for I think the second time, uh, which was what maybe five years ago, I had never seen the movie. I had never read the book. I literally knew nothing about it except Oprah was in it and peed at one point. That's I think the majority of my my my knowledge of the show. Anyway, I walked in and I the there's a there's a song that the lead character sings towards the end of the show that when it was over, when I tell you that like I could feel every atom in my body moving. Like it was so fucking incredible. That was also amazing cast and whatever, but it was just an absolutely incredible moment. Uh, that was number two. And number one for me, I was dating my now husband. I was living in Los Angeles, and John Williams, if you don't know, every year conducts the LA Philharmonic um to some of his scores that he's written at the Hollywood Bowl. And he is my favorite film scorer, and uh my and he he'll choose just a couple every year. He doesn't do all of them. And so I went and he did my absolute favorite score and my favorite section of my favorite score ever. And it was, I've always loved music, I love, always love symphonies and orchestration and all the weird kind of dorky music things. And he conducted my favorite piece of music of all time, and it was just one of those moments where I was like, is this real life? Am I experiencing the most incredible musical moment of my life? So, and that by the way, was a uh section of E.T. called Adventure on Earth. But um, anyway, that was my number one. What about you? That's awesome.

Gavin: 17:42

Okay, I uh I uh can parallel this a little bit, but I am proud to say I'm a little more um superficial about the entire thing.

David: 17:51

Nice.

Gavin: 17:51

On my list of top three live events I've experienced, uh number three was watching my kid perform as the lead in her very first fifth grade play. And when my partner and I got out of the car and walked into um the show, my partner turns to me and goes, She better not embarrass us. Number two, summer after eighth grade, I got to see Depeche Mode perform at Red Rock's Amphitheater, which, if you don't know what Red Rock's Amphitheater is, it's like the most unbelievable live music concert in the world. And I uh it was right by where I grew up. And being able to spend all day long, I don't think the tickets were reserved, so you had to wait in line all day long. And we were drinking Zimas in the on the stairs, and then seeing um DePesh mode that night, it was basically the first concert I'd ever been, first rock concert I'd ever been to, and it was unbelievable, and I'll never forget it. And then number one, I spent a summer on Nantucket when I was in college. I was just a poor kid uh teaching summer uh summer camp to little kids, and I was a barista at night at a coffee shop. It was badass. It was such a fun summer. And the Boston Pops come to Nantucket and they play on the beach every summer. And I somehow got into a pipeline of people who were volunteering, like the kids, you know, the summer kids volunteering to serve wine to rich people at the Boston Pops. I think maybe it was a 4th of July concert. Anyway, so there I was serving wine to rich people, but then fully stealing wine, I would crouch down behind a table and chug a glass and then stand up and serve another and sit down and chug one. I didn't get ripped shit, but you know, just got happily drunk and then got to watch the Boston Pops play some big, you know, huge, maybe a fourth of July concert on the beach in Nantucket. And that was awesome. Oh what do we got next week? Next week, I want to know about the top three things you give way too many fucks about.

David: 19:54

So our guest this week is a ticker. He's a talker. He gained over 160. 60,000 followers for his unvarnished and real approach to parenting, both helpful, but also very funny. He's a dad to two girls and married to a woman. So, legally speaking, this interview may be the gayest thing he does today, but we'll see. Please welcome to the show, Owen Squires. Good morning.

SPEAKER_01: 20:18

Hello, good morning, good morning, good morning. Hopefully, I can live up to all of that.

David: 20:22

I know. I mean, especially the gay part. I mean, like, are you is this as gay as it's gonna get today? We'll see, right?

SPEAKER_01: 20:27

I mean, it's it's we'll we'll see how the weekend goes. I don't know.

David: 20:30

You don't know what's gonna happen. We don't know what's gonna happen. So I found you on TikTok um like a lot of I guess our guests that we've had on the show, just in my FYP. Like you just happened to pop up and you made me laugh, and I kind of saved you into my like, like, let's let's email this guy. And then when I kind of did a deep dive into your TikTok, your TikToks are much more helpful than they are than they were funny in my brain, where that 80% of your stuff is like really helpful, good parenting advice. And then the 20% that I somehow got caught on to is fucking hilarious. So I was like, we have to have him on the show. He's funny, and also he's helpful. So um, welcome to the show. That's why you're here. Also, you have really good hair.

unknown: 21:09

Really?

David: 21:10

For those of you who are just listening, Google him, find him, follow him. He's got great hair.

Gavin: 21:14

Yeah, and it's very consistent throughout all your videos, too. I uh we won't put you on the spot about your hair until later. But uh, per what David was just asking, or talking about all of your content, I'm so I'm dying to know who is your audience? Do you feel like you curate who they are?

SPEAKER_01: 21:32

Uh so there's actually that's a good question. There are analytics for that. And my audience is 95% female, most of which are millennial moms.

Gavin: 21:43

Oh, so they're like, hey, husband, you need to listen to this guy more. But it's not the dads you're directly speaking to, for better or worse.

SPEAKER_01: 21:52

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the goal. Hopefully, you know, some of what I say will be shared with husbands and dads, etc. Uh, and I do have male followers too, you know, but uh yeah, a lot of our moms.

David: 22:05

I wonder if some of that is like the wish fulfillment on the part of the wives, where obviously you're very good looking, but also like this is what I wish my husband would talk. This is how I wish my husband would talk about my kids or parenting or whatever. I wonder if that's part of it.

SPEAKER_01: 22:21

Yeah, it could be. And you know, a lot of what I talk about, what I say, what I admit, is me just learning as I go. You know what I mean? I was not a great dad to begin with. I was not a great husband to begin with, and I'll be the first one to tell you that. And and as I learn things and I have these epiphanies, I talk about them. You know, and I think that's one thing that keeps me relatable. Hey, this guy isn't like holier than thou telling you what to do and what not to do. It's like, hey, here's the mistake I made. How do you feel about it?

David: 22:49

Yeah, and that's for sure why you're here and why I'm at all even interested in what you have to talk about, because you are like, here's the real part of me. And so I want to kind of dive into that a little bit. I'm curious, would you say like I was not a great dad? Would it describe open unpack that a little bit for us, you know, in front of our millions of followers.

SPEAKER_01: 23:05

I think you have this idea of what parenting is gonna be like, you know, just from your childhood growing up, seeing other parents do what they do, and you have this beautiful little bundle of joy and snot and puke and poop that you bring home from the hospital, and it's like you have this idea that's gonna go a certain way. And I know that I put a lot of the child rearing responsibility on my wife early on, you know, and then it was like our second came along a year and a half later, and I remember thinking like, why is this so hard for you? You know, I don't find parenting as hard as you do. You know, and then yeah, that that was how I felt. I spent a lot I spent a lot of time out in my shop doing woodworking, and like I was an idiot. I was an idiot, you know, and and I my wife at one point was like, you have to fucking help me more, you know? And she was like, You should be on TikTok. I think you would like it. And she was always sending me videos on parenting, and I kind of like dove in, and I and it was like these light bulbs were going off. I'm not doing any of this shit, you know. And I really started to step it up and learn, and like the more I got involved, the more I enjoyed it, and the more I took on. And then I got an opportunity to be a stay-at-home dad through COVID, you know, and that when I was I was like, oh my god. Yeah, you know, yeah, um, you know, and and just to wrap up with with that question, I that was when I had my first viral video, was when I was a stay-at-home dad, and I was talking about how what I'm currently doing is harder than any job I've ever had, hands down. You know, and it and it was like a million and a half views in two days. Like, listen to this guy, you know.

Gavin: 24:46

Did you have mentors that out on TikTok world that you learned the most from or loved watching the most?

SPEAKER_01: 24:54

Um, oh God, putting me on the spot. I probably. I'm not sure.

David: 24:58

We're hard-hitting here. We are the Barbara Walters of the gay podcasting community.

SPEAKER_01: 25:02

Spill the tea. Who do you love?

David: 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:04

No, I there are quite a few. I you know, I could give you a list of you know, a handful of creators that I've followed since day one that are that are really, really good.

David: 25:12

Yeah, no, I I think it's it's really interesting because I this is something I think about all the time, which is like when you do something and then you finally kind of bridge that knowledge gap, like you said, stay-at-home dad was like, oh, now I get kind of this thing. You kind of turn around and you go, how do I tell me before, aka people who aren't parents yet or who are not stay-at-home dads yet, whatever, what this is like to where they can understand it without having to go through it. And sometimes it feels impossible. I feel that way about parenting. Like when I when I when I explain parenting to people, I'm like, this is all the same stuff I would have heard before, but I didn't really, really fucking get it, except for the 24-7 of it all. And so, like, I wonder if that was part of you just being like, ah, I wish I could have told my former self, but would your former self have listened to you?

SPEAKER_00: 26:00

Right.

David: 26:01

Legitimately. I don't know.

Gavin: 26:04

No, it's all it's all a bunch of wives who wish their husbands would act your the way you do.

David: 26:08

Yeah, I mean, it's so true, but like so many people have their wives say what your wife said to you, and they say, Fuck you, and then they move on. They don't even they don't even try to change. And for you, you were like, Oh, oh shit, this is a learning lesson for me, and you change, which is really interesting. Um because you're doing it publicly too, right? Like you're you're failing publicly, which I think is awesome, honestly. I think it's awesome. So um you don't David, I'm gonna call you out. Was there a question there? No, I want to say that I enjoy watching Owen fail. That is why I brought him on here.

SPEAKER_01: 26:45

So does my wife? You guys have nothing to talk about.

David: 26:47

I want to see you stumble and fall non-stop. No, but I I really do mean that. I I say this to like when I'm teaching in in like theater or whatever. I always say like you have to fail forward. If you're not failing daily, you're not trying hard enough and you're for sure not growing. Um, but I didn't mean that to be a dick, but I'll be a dick if I want. This is my show. Um, but so so you kind of had this like realization. You're like, I'm a stay-at-home dad. What changed then? Like, what how did what what how did parenting change for you?

SPEAKER_01: 27:11

I was forced to own it. I was forced to own my mistakes, and it's like you're you're either gonna step up and do better, or you're gonna just flounder, you know? And uh, you know, it was a blessing. I don't want to say it was a blessing and a curse, it was a blessing. I got to spend so much uninterrupted time with my two little girls. You know, we formed that secure attachment. They really got to know dad and and how fun he can be and how secure he makes us feel. Um, and I learned kind of how what makes the little brain tick, so to speak, you know, and and it really like I really just kind of stepped into my role as a dad. You know, it forces you, hey, here, catch this, you know what I mean? And it's like, oh my god. And and my wife was the sole breadwinner at the time, so it was like she had to work, and I had to watch the kids. There's this pandemic outside our front door, we handled it the way we did, the way we felt comfortable, and that was having our kids at home, you know. And uh, I thank God every day that I got that year, year and a half to be with my kids, and it's it it really built a solid foundation for me to to move forward on as a dad. I I try to keep in mind that a lot of the dads and husbands that my um videos may reach haven't had the opportunity to be in the stay-at-home position. They're either the sole breadwinner or one of two, and they and they don't know what I'm speaking on, you know. Like to them, it's just kind of like, oh, it's not that hard. You know, I I'm the one that brings home the money. I'm never gonna be in your position. I'll do what I can, but you know, it is what it is. And you know, that was that was the way I grew up, too. You know?

Gavin: 28:51

I feel like you bring some serious BDE to your videos. Totally. And you are in the face.

David: 28:58

Look at Owen's face. Look at Owen's face. He does, he has no idea.

SPEAKER_01: 29:01

I don't know what that is.

David: 29:01

Oh, baby's. You bring some big energy to your videos.

Gavin: 29:07

And there's many ways of being able to define that, but I would also define it, I think most importantly, that in a modern age it means actually showing up with your manly self, but without the toxic masculinity, frankly. And in your videos, so you bring this BDE and it is in your face, and you are kind of yelling at people. And I'm curious, the dudes who watch it, do you get under their skin and they yell back at you?

SPEAKER_01: 29:36

Uh I I've had very I've had very few men really go off on me, you know. Maybe a couple of stitches here and there from men that disagreed with what I was saying. Um, you know, you'll you'll get guys in the comments sometimes that'll leave really rude remarks about the way they feel. Uh, and then they get attacked by 3,000 women that are like, you're a moron, here's why. And I'm just like, I'm gonna stay out of that one, you know. I and I didn't go into it planning to like have a bunch of female followers. That was that wasn't the goal. It was just kind of like, here's what I'm speaking on, this is what I'm feeling, and and that's what happened, you know. But but I'll notice like when I have a video that does really well, you know, it'll have 30,000 shares. So I'm like, I'm hoping that women are sending this to their husband, yeah, and you know, or their the dad of their the children, and and he's hearing what I'm saying. And I and I know that the angrier I am and the ruder I sound, the less people are gonna be open to what I'm saying, you know? Like you have to be relatable, and it's like I don't always want to have that energy, you know, like assertive but also kind.

unknown: 30:44

Yeah.

David: 30:45

But I I think why you're so digestible, both for the women and for the men, is that the outside of you, and I don't mean the little outside, I mean like your tone, your deep voice, the way the your cadence when you talk is very could if put put a different person in there, and it could be like every high school bullet I've ever had, toxic masculinity. But what's inside of it is what these women I think so badly want, but wrapped in a masculine kind of like dad vibe. And so I think that is both why it's digestible for the men to hear, but also so attractive to these women. Speaking of attraction, I had to go 40 videos deep before I saw you in a tank top. What gives? You're hiding a body. What gives?

SPEAKER_01: 31:29

I don't know. I I guess I should do more tank top videos.

Gavin: 31:32

You absolutely just if you ever feel like your your followers are flagging, just throw on a tank and it's so true.

David: 31:38

Just be like, just just was working out, had some ideas about being a dad, but like clearly you're holding the camera away where you're showing your midsection. I hate those videos, but also I bookmark them. But let me talk about the video that I hate the most. That really made me mad at you because it made me feel things I didn't like, which was when you talk about by the time your kids are 18, you'll have spent what 93% of the time you're ever gonna spend with them already. How actually dare you? That's my question.

SPEAKER_01: 32:06

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a tough one to digest.

David: 32:09

Right? Like that, like sometimes those little moments. I know somebody we talked about maybe a hundred episodes ago, but we talked about a similar thing where they say, How many times a year do you see your mom? Let's say three times, Christmas, whatever. Um, how old are they? How what's the life expectancy? So you're gonna see your mom 18 more times ever, and then she dies. And you go, ah, fuck. Doing moving those levers of math can really highlight things. And when I watched your video about that 93% of the time, I was like, gutted in a great way, right? I joke. Like it was gutted in a really positive way. And I told my husband, we usually get the kids up at seven, like whether they're up or not, we walk up there at seven, and I was like, it was like 6.45, and I heard them up. I was like, I'm gonna go see them. I'm gonna go look at them, add to that 93%.

Gavin: 32:51

Yes, it's a good reminder for sure. Yes, yeah, having that data in front of you, it's uh it does help you get through those tough times of being a stay-at-home dad, for instance, and where you're like, wow, those days are long, but the years are short. And anyway, 93% at age 18, that's tough. Right?

David: 33:10

That's tough. Um, let's uh we talked a little bit about on the pre-interview, which was so fascinating to me because this is something I think about all the time, which is the anti-child crowd and how they rub you the wrong way. Tell me a little bit about what you meant.

SPEAKER_01: 33:23

Yeah, for for me, it's the aggressively anti-child crowd. Like you can you can be anti-child and not be a prick about it, in in my opinion, you know?

David: 33:32

Yeah, you could say I don't want kids or I don't even like kids, but without being a dick. You're right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:37

Yeah, the child, the child free crowd, the yeah. Um I have I have some spicy opinions and thoughts on that. Spill it. Um I and I'll start and I'll start by saying that I I've never um met an adult that is child-free and been like, why don't you want kids? What's wrong with you? Like, what do you mean? You know, but I know that goes on. So it's I know we hold a piece of the blame as parents for alienating other people for not having kids. I know that happens. Um, which I didn't really before, you know. But with that said, I feel like there's this sort of subculture or movement of like people being aggressively child-free and picking on parents just for being parents, you know, like we're gonna hate on kids, we're gonna hate on parents and what you're doing and how you're doing it.

Gavin: 34:28

You know, you're ruining my time at the grocery store, you're ruining my time at the restaurant, leave your kids at home.

SPEAKER_01: 34:34

Yeah, exactly. And I and I heard somebody say that you're you're entitled to a child-free life, not a child-free world. Um, and I'm like, yeah, I that makes sense to me, you know? Um, but but I I I hear a lot of it like in my comment section on my videos, like you they chime in, like, oh, this blah blah blah. The fate the favorite thing to say is, well, you chose to have kids. You have no right to be upset or complain this and that because you chose to have kids. And I'm like, well, you chose to be in a toxic marriage and you complain about that all the time. You know, you chose you chose to go to fucking college and you complain about it every day.

Gavin: 35:10

You know, you chose to get up in the morning and you complain about it all the time. Or in the in in our case, David and I complain about parenting all the time. So we started a podcast. So we made a podcast about it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 35:22

Yeah. Exactly. It is our right.

Gavin: 35:24

Yes, we chose it, and we are going to inflict our complaints upon you.

David: 35:28

Yeah, the cult the the because it what it develops into is a culture of cool children suck, I hate them, and my like like it becomes a part of their personality, which is so listen, kids are annoying. Mine annoy me every day. When I go to the park or I go to the grocery store, I go to the other people's kids, we've talked about this all the time. Other people's kids annoy me too. But like you said, not in a way where I'm like, they shouldn't exist or be allowed around me. This, this, this can go into a broader conversation about all kinds of parts of the world and politics and and nationalism, where it's like anything that goes beyond what I personally want shouldn't exist for everyone else to protect my sense of the way the world should work or whatever. And that is so fucking stupid. I fucking hate it. You can you can want to have kids and also be annoyed by them sometimes. You should. If you're not annoyed by your kids sometime, you're not allowed on this.

SPEAKER_01: 36:24

Yeah, right. Yeah. And no, you hit the nail right on the head there, David. There's just so much I want to say. Say it. I well, no, I just like I've never met like a ch someone that's passionately child-free and and is like it's really cool that you have kids. You know, it's awesome that you started a family. Like, I really like kids, you know. I I enjoy their being around them. It's just not for me. You know, I don't I don't have the emotional bandwidth to be a parent, but I think it's awesome that you are. What's your kid's name? Like, that's I've never had that interaction with a child-free person. Right. It's always like nasty, and you know, it it it's always there's always friction, you know, and and I and I try to keep in mind what you just said, David. Like, I remember me in my 20s, you know. I found children a lot more annoying than I do now. You know, and and anytime there was a kid like acting up at the grocery store or the movie theater, my first thought was like, that's a shitty parent. You know what I mean? How dare you keep not keep this little kid under control? And then you become a parent, and it's like, this is the way that children are hardwired. They are fucking batshit crazy. You know what I mean? If you have one that's that's calm and is a rule follower and kind, that's an anomaly. Consider yourself very lucky. Most children are not like that, you know? And it and it doesn't make you a bad parent. And if you scold them to the point where they're like introverted and submissive and they go into fight or flight every time you raise your voice, that's not healthy. That's childhood trauma in the making. You know what I mean? Like you have to be patient, you have to work through the tantrums and be emotionally regulated before you approach a situation. I didn't 20-year-old me wouldn't have fucking understood any of that shit, you know? And so it's it's part of like it's stuff you're never gonna understand until you're a parent. And that's why the aggressively child-free crowd is fucking annoying to me.

David: 38:19

Yes, but I think, but that's what we were talking about. Like, how can we bridge that gap of like it wasn't until I parent or whatever? I will say that like I have some of my closest friends don't want kids, haven't had kids, don't want to have kids, but they aren't dicks about it. They are just like, I didn't want kids, so I don't have them. What I think, what I think is the the what is what is it, stuck in your craw, crook in your craw? What is this old-fashioned saying? Something in their craw. Yeah, whatever is stuck in their crawl. What I think it is, is what exactly what you said, which is I think some of the child-free people think that we look down on them or for not having kids, or we think that we are better for having kids. All about insecurities. Every parent totally disagrees. Every parent says, if you don't want kids, do not have them. We are on your side, and they don't, I think they feel like they're being judged a little bit, like our lives are better. Guys, our lives are way worse. You made the right call. We are not judging you at all. Don't judge us.

Gavin: 39:16

Oh, and you've got opinions. Does your advice giving ever bleed into public?

SPEAKER_01: 39:23

No. No, never. I I've never like given un unsolicited advice or asserted my opinion where it wasn't no, not at all. I mean, I think I'm kind of maybe a little introverted in public, you know, when there's people that I don't know, especially other parents. Like, I'm quick to smile and give a compliment and say hello, that kind of stuff, but no, not not advice. I wouldn't. Not my style.

David: 39:49

So, one of the things you talk about a lot on your account, which I really like and I want to talk just a little bit about, is your kind of idea of non abusive parenting or gentle parenting and kind of what your point. Of view on that is.

SPEAKER_01: 40:01

Yeah. Um, you know, it it's hard. It's hard because, you know, I'm an I'm an elder millennial. I'll be 40 this summer, and I was raised a certain way, you know. Uh spankings, hands-on discipline, punishment, corporal punishment, whatever however you choose to describe it, was a big part of me and my brother's childhood. Um, and it was it was the way I started out, you know. I I remember when my daughter was three, three and a half, four years old. This is my my oldest daughter. I I was giving spankings, you know. I was yelling, I was giving spankings, not all the time, you know, um, but when I felt like it w it was warranted, that was the way I handled it, you know. And then I started digesting TikTok and gentle parenting or non-abusive parenting. Um, and I talk about it in one of my videos where I'm in the living room. Uh my daughter's three at the time, she was doing something that I didn't like, and I stood up and I was like, Amelia! And she was like, Oh my god, you know, what, Daddy? And she like dropped everything she was doing and cowered, and I and I just left the situation. I fucking went in my room and I started crying. You know, I was just I was crying. I because I was so frustrated, like with not knowing how to parent properly, inflicting the same trauma that I had gone through as a kid. You know what I mean? And I and I didn't and and I have daughters, I don't have little boys, I have daughters. So, in my opinion, it's like even worse to be this scary force in their life. So, anyway, I I kind of picked up on the gentle parenting thing, and I'm not an expert, you know. I try not to give too much advice, but I'm sharing what I'm learning. You know, that this is what's working for me, this is what I've experienced, these are the mistakes I've made. Um, and something I'm working on now is not yelling so much, you know, like yelling and screaming in a child's face is a form of emotional abuse. Sure, you know, and I do that a lot more than I should have. And if I'm honest, and I look back on my childhood, you know, my my dad would take my brother and I and like smack our heads together, like a couple of bowling balls, knock it off, boom, and smash our heads together, and it would hurt and we would cry, you know, and stuff like that. But what I remember the most is all the yelling and the way that it made me feel about who I was, you know, and the and the harsh criticism. Don't do that, why are you doing it this way? We don't do that, and and all and it felt like our teachers were yelling at us. Everybody was always yelling. And it was like none of the adults were emotionally regulated, but they expected all of us kids to be.

unknown: 42:46

Yeah.

David: 42:46

Oh, yeah. That's a good point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:49

And I still yell more than I should, you know. I admit that right now. And I'm and I'm that's currently what I'm trying to work on. If I'm frustrated and I feel like I need to yell, I should probably take a deep breath and stand back, let my wife handle it in the moment.

David: 43:03

Yeah. Only listen, only good parents think they're bad parents. And and just the fact that you're even telling the story to me means you're a good parent. And what I like about how you talk about gentle parenting is you call it non-abusive parenting, where I think we often make fun of gentle parenting on the show because when we're talking about gentle parenting, we're talking about like, honey, but you know, like the comedian, snowflake, soft, snowflaky. But what you're saying, which is totally true, which is like, I'm gonna improve my child's life over my own by, you know, 70%. And I'm gonna take away physical abuse, I'm gonna try to take away as much yelling as I can. And we know we're never gonna be perfect, but just the act of it is so great. And I find I do the same thing. I find myself thinking, why did I fucking scream at him? He just wanted another piece of cake. Why? Like, and just that introspection is so much better than a lot of us are raised. And so I I so commend you for for the way you're kind of just trying shit out in public because I really do think it's helpful. And usually my job on the show is to tell dick jokes and be funny, and Gavin's is the one to talk about serious things. Congrats. But I really do. You that you're on the show because I think this stuff is really funny, but also really, really relatable and helpful to just get better. You're not gonna be perfect, especially Gavin. He's awful. But like just to get a little bit better as parents, making the world a better place, like I like to say.

Gavin: 44:22

Now, I need some advice in terms of yelling, which is I think um I've actually developed a fairly good sense of not raising my voice despite the fact that I'm an animated loudmouth. But I'm being accused of yelling at my kids when I'm speaking in a pointed manner. And they're like, you're yelling at me. And I'm like, no, I'm literally not yelling. I am literally not yelling right now. And I'm like, wow, apparently I pack a lot of punch in my um uh my aggressive whispering. And so I don't think that that fits in the parameters. But if you have advice on um aggressive whispering, please add it to your list, okay? Because I will listen to that shit and I will share it with my seven followers on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01: 45:05

The tone and the cadence. Yeah, I listen, I I don't I I'm not I'm not a perfect parent. I yelp, I get aggressive. I there's gonna be stuff my kids when they get older go, Dad, why did you do it this way? Why did you do it that way? Well, you know, I'm gonna do that.

Gavin: 45:21

We have to give them content for therapy. Come on.

SPEAKER_01: 45:24

Yes, I know there's gonna be trauma in some form, you know, but what what I can say, Gavin, is that my oldest, uh, she's gonna be six this summer, right? She's very strong-willed. She's a lot like her dad. Although I'm extremely sensitive, I'm strong-willed. She likes she likes to make her own rules, she has a hard time, she says no, she talks back. And I I want to yell. I want to yell. I've to me it's like I'm hardwired for that being the answer. Listen, you listen to me. I'm in charge, you know? And and what I'm learning is that she is very like reward focused. You know, if I have some kind of a reward or a goal that she can work towards for her good behavior, if I can point out what she's doing right a lot more than what I point out when she's doing wrong, she r she thrives on that. You know, if I if I can try to be her coach instead of her critic, I feel like her childhood has a much better chance of not having the kind of trauma that mine did. You know? And that's just the goal. That's not how I do it every day. Yeah, yeah. This is just the record that plays in my mind. You know what I mean?

David: 46:36

For sure. I I I I it's funny, you say that and I go, I was saying to my husband the other night, I came downstairs from a rough bedtime, and I said, I think my kryptonite as a parent is the disobedience. And as soon as I said that, I went, disobedience, it's not your fucking dog. And I remember thinking as a kid when my parents would demand obedience from me and I couldn't question things, I would get so frustrated that I couldn't have my, you know, you know, pitch my idea or whatever. And uh, it was just one of those weird connecting points. It was like that part of me really frustrates me and parenting when I say brush your teeth, and they say no. I want to, I want to push them over. But then I go, What? Wait a minute. Fuck your so having those conversations in your head of like, okay, is brushing not breaking brushing his teeth immediately the worst thing that's ever happened in the world, right? But it feels that way. My my blood starts to boil, and I'm like, how dare you? Like, I'm your dad, you're four. But I'm like, I'm your dad, you're four, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 47:29

Yeah. Um, yeah, you know what I mean? Well set, very well.

David: 47:33

Yeah. Um, so we like to end every interview with the same two questions, which is what is your favorite part of parenting, and what is your least favorite part of parenting?

SPEAKER_01: 47:42

Ooh, my favorite part of parenting. Um, I I would say that my favorite part of parenting um is knowing that I have these tiny souls that have no control over the family that they're born into, who their parents are, what their life circumstances are gonna look like. They're completely vulnerable to the way you treat them, right? And the gift that I have is that same thing. Like, I get to choose to be a safe space for my children. I I get to choose to teach them things. Um man, it's it's hard, it's hard to articulate, but there's this feeling I have where it's like these two little girls are completely vulnerable. They have no choice or say in the matter at this young age, and I get to be this safe space for them to teach them things and to offer them endless amounts of love. You're special, I love you, I'm lucky to have you in my life, your friends are lucky to have you, like you're doing a really good job, baby girl. I want you to hear that, you know? And not all parents are like that, you know, and and I was lucky enough to learn early on that these are some of the most important things. That's my favorite part of parenting. Um, my least favorite part of parenting is just the struggle, you know, the the ignorance, the the learning things the hard way, you're gonna stumble four times before you finally do it right on the fifth time, and the constant second guessing yourself. You as a parent, you always feel like you're doing it wrong. That's one thing that I've learned. You always feel like you're doing it wrong and you're making a mistake, um, and you second guess yourself. And I feel like that's why it's so important to have a community. Other parents that are failing alongside you, that you can bounce things off of, that you can, you know, relate to through stories and experiences. Um but it it's I think you guys would agree, parenting is is probably the hardest thing that anybody will do in their lifetime.

Gavin: 49:45

Well, you are probably the straightest person we've ever had on this show, but you are part of the Gatriarch's community because there is nothing more important, I think, than us creating this sense of we all suck at this, let's all commiserate, get up the next day, and do the best we possibly can because we love our kids.

SPEAKER_01: 50:04

Very well said. Thank you for being a gatriarch. Thank you.

David: 50:08

You're officially a gatriarch. We'll send you your patch in the mail. Um, for those of you who don't follow Owen, please, he is on TikTok, he's on Instagram, Owen Squires. Thank you so much for coming by and demeaning yourself by being on our stupid little podcast.

Gavin: 50:22

Thanks, Owen. You're welcome, guys.

David: 50:25

So my something great this week is being United Premier Silver Status. I that's the most mature thing you have ever said. I I have fully drank the Kool-Aid on the entire like status on airlines thing. So I live uh near uh Newark Airport, and so that uh their United is their hub. So I almost always fly in United. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna double down. I'm gonna always fly United. I'm gonna try to get that status because what happened was a couple years ago, I got status uh because my husband had a thing or whatever, and it was so amazing. It you this is we're not talking about going first class. I can't afford that, I'm way too poor, but you just getting preferential, like boarding, getting free upgrades, like all the free bags, like priority bags, so bags will come out before any other bags. That kind of shit. I thrive on. This is why never let me get rich, because I will ignore all you poor fucks. You guys are dead to me at that point. But this I I just got uh premiere silver status because I flew a lot last year, and I'll be flying a lot this year. And oh, does it feel good?

Gavin: 51:32

My something great was last night I was uh I took my daughter and some friends to the mall. And this is great. I don't live near a mall, so it was a schlep. Uh but I knew that I was gonna get so many points for doing so, and I just let them loose as 12-year-olds do. They just ran around the mall themselves, and I was like, please don't get kicked out, please don't kick kicked out. I went and had a six dollar happy hour martini at some lowbrow Italian restaurant there, but above the the Olive Garden, they might add. And anyway, we they got in the car, they had a thrilling night, um, really just like walking around. I mean, they did spend some money, but and then we drove back and they I let them all DJ on Spotify and they played the most rip-roaring rap that I've heard in a while. I didn't know any of it. I didn't know my daughter knew all the words, all the words to it. And I chose not to get you know huffy or fatherly about it, and I just let them rip those fucks and shits and all the body parts. And consequently, when they got out of the car, they said, I overheard two of them say, 'Your dad is the coolest.

David: 52:45

Oh, score! Yeah. She was like, eh. Yeah, but when when when preteens or teens think you're cool, you have fucking won.

Gavin: 52:54

I agree. I agree. It felt pretty great, um, even though my ears needed to be washed out. But nevertheless, that's our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

David: 53:10

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at David FM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on nothing. Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, and we'll drink to that next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.