Gaytriarchs: A Gay Dads Podcast
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Gaytriarchs: A Gay Dads Podcast
The one with our favorite Mormon Rory O'Malley
This week, David's daughter sells him out big time, Gavin ruins everything, we rank the top 3 things we give way too many fucks about, and our guest this week is everybody's favorite tap-dancing Mormon, Rory O'Malley, who talks to us about his wild road to adoption, how Elder McKinley came to be, and how many bags of candy he needs to survive a flight with his 5 year old.
Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast
Da Da Da Da Da Da Da Da Da Da.
David:And now I want you to say, and this is gateriarchism.
SPEAKER_00:This is Gatriarchist.
David:So my daughter is two, and I'm dropping her off at daycare. And I bring her the room, I put her stuff away, and the teachers are talking to her. And then the teacher goes, Oh, wait, Dad, one more thing. I wanted to tell you what Hannah told us. So, okay. Hannah told us when you cook in the kitchen that you fart a lot. A, why are you in my business? B, Hannah, you fucking two-year-old narc. Why are you telling your teachers that I fart when I cook? A number one, I'm cooking for you, food that you refuse to eat. But B, why you gotta tell my business like that? So fucking embarrassing. And then what do I say? Oh no, I don't, I don't fart when I cook. I I don't know. I don't know what she's talking about.
Gavin:Like, what do I do? Also, what empowered the teacher to tell you that?
David:Like, like I I'm just I'm mad at the whole thing.
Gavin:And nothing good comes of that except you being the one to say it and being in charge of the comedy. Instead, you're just on the defensive on all fronts.
David:And let's not like methane uh shame anybody here, right? Like we're all we all fart, maybe while we're cooking. But I don't need you to go spread my business at that school. I have no idea what, but but more I'm mad at the teachers. I was like, hey, if you heard that, you shut your mouth about it. Don't be telling everybody. Also, there are other parents dropping their kids off at the same time. Humiliating. Thank God the hot dad wasn't there. If hot dad was there, I would have lit the building on fire with a fart.
Gavin:You would have just torched it all. Yeah. Well, um, that definitely you ruined your day picking up Hannah. But um, speaking of ruining things, um, I had the realization that I ruin things all the time for my kids. Like, I am way too quick to be like, eh, uh-uh, you're going like last week I was talking about going to the mall. Like, you're going to the mall. I'm not going to give you hundreds of dollars. Like, whose money are you spending with? Meanwhile, my kids like, I just want to go to the mall and walk around. Bullshit. But still, I ruin things so much. And uh, and my son called me on it. And he's like, Dad, you're ruining my dreams when I was when I was shitting on something because he was talking about how he plans obviously to be a soccer superstar when he grows up. And I was like, Well, that's a great idea, buddy, but also what's your fallback basically? And he s sniffed me out and he could tell that I was ruining his dreams. And I'm like, oh my God. I was told that I'm ruining my children's dreams, and that is not something great. But I realized, I don't know. I guess I just need to. I mean, where do where did I become this practical person suddenly? I fucking moved to New York with a guitar and a backpack and started tap dancing.
David:Like my mom's disgusting things you have done in the Port Authority bathroom. You're like, how can I ever tell somebody to do anything else?
Gavin:Exactly. Do I want my kids to have those experiences? Well. Anyway, uh, I have a dad hack of the week. Oh, thank God. Something helpful. So I was thinking about some of the things that help kids uh not get bored because obviously they're all bored all the damn time, right? So a couple of the things that really helped us that were passed on to me by much smarter parents than me are painting rocks, washing the car, and banging wood. Yeah.
David:So have you, I I don't know that you did you pause there because you were waiting for me to do some sort of like dirty take on banging wood? Is that why you did a little pause? Okay.
Gavin:Yes, I did. I mean, you're looking at the same outline that I am. How did you?
David:I'm just not gonna take your bait. I know what you're trying to do here. You're trying to make me look foolish. Nope, not gonna happen. Not on my watch, Satan.
Gavin:All right, so painting rocks. It never occurred to me when I was uh when this was shared with me. Go for a long ass walk, pick up some rocks, and then get some uh water-based paint and let the kids go to town. And they can paint themselves, they can frankly paint the house. It's all water-based, right? So it'll go away.
David:That's really good. We I will say also for the toddler version that we do every year, which we love, is getting big paint brushes just dipped in water and painting the sidewalk. Yes. It's the exact or or big pieces of like cardboard. It's the same thing. It leaves a mark, they can do stuff, but like there's there's no harm, no foul.
Gavin:Yeah, and it's it's one of those things that it seems I bet it seems like it's too much work, but no, it's not work at all. So um that's a helpful one. Washing the car, you know, just a sponge in a bucket and put the kids to work. I mean, if you do live in a place where you're like driving cars and you're not afraid they're gonna trip and fall into the street, but and also you don't want your car to actually be clean.
David:Like it's like they're not gonna actually clean the car. It's just more just an enjoyable activity.
Gavin:Yeah. But it does distract them for at least six and a half minutes. And then banging wood, uh, everybody's favorite. Like just give them a hammer and some wood, maybe a nail.
David:I'll also add to that, we will all also do like we'll freeze a lot of their toys, like their little character figures, and a big block of ice, and then we'll do that with a hammer and let them just try to chip away and try to get the characters out.
Gavin:It doesn't make it fall apart.
David:Not the toys, it just makes the ice will start to fall apart, but that's the point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's they they love that. And it's always like my son is obsessed with Elsa. It's like Elsa has frozen all the characters, you gotta save all the characters.
Gavin:So I can't believe they don't fall apart. I mean, that immediately makes me think of in uh when I I had my little Han solo action figure that I wanted to freeze in ice, just like in Empire Strikes Back, obvious. And his fucking arm broke off in the ice. So, like, and that wasn't even me banging it apart with a hand with a hammer. It's just his arm broke off in the ice.
David:Is that experience like your villain origin story? Is it like ever since then I decided to do bad?
Gavin:I mean, well, what's worse is that my mom never got me another Han Solo to replace my broken one. So I just had an armless Han Solo for the next 17 years while I played with my Star Wars figures. Anyway. Uh, so speaking of absolutely nothing, let's do our top three lists, shall we? Gatriarchs, top three list, three, two, one. So this week's top three list is mine. But the title is Top Three Things You Give Too Many Fucks About. Number three for me, eating veggies. I'm absolutely obsessed with my kids having something green on their plate. And once in a while, is it that big a deal if they just have a plate of pasta and call it a day? No, it's not, but it's a big deal to me and I give too many fucks about it. Number two, making the bed. Nope. They don't need to make the bed all the time. I don't need to make the bed all the time. But it does drive me crazy when somebody can't make the bed. It just drives me crazy. So I give too many fucks about it. And number one, things that I give too many fucks about uh good manners. Maybe sometimes it's okay to not worry about making eye contact and saying hello, but I this comes to me being too obsessed with other parents judging me and my parenting. And I don't mean please and thank you. You say you're fucking please and thank yous, but I also mean like good manners of standing upright, looking somebody in the eye, and not fidgeting while you talk to them. And uh I should probably let that go, but I give a lot of fucks about that.
David:Isn't it amazing how much we change? Like you were giving blowjobs in back alleys 20 years ago, and now you're making your kids stand up straight. Isn't that amazing how much we change? Um yeah, my list um yeah, my list, unsurprisingly, is uh much different than yours. Um for me, uh number three, one of the things I give way too many fucks about is drivers who are wrong but think they're right. When you're at a stop sign, you're at a three-way, whatever the the situation is, my husband has to hear me complain endlessly about a intersection in our town that nobody gets right. Um, and I give way too many fucks about it. Uh number two, if I ask for double meat at Chipotle and the scoop size is not what I think it needs to be, I will think about that for days. I will think you gave me one and a half scoops when I deserved a minimum of two. If I got regular meat, you'll give me one and a half, or like one and a quarter. You know, they do that little like like like hospitality scoop at the end. And if I ask for doubled meat and I get one and a half meat, I'll I'll lay up in bed thinking about it. So, number two, scoops of Chipotle. Uh and number one, this this is the most pervasive thing. Are you mad at me? I think everyone's mad at me. I think nobody's willing to tell me. And I'm wondering what I did to make them.
Gavin:We're we're all we all have a side thread without you on it, talking about how mad we are at you.
David:And I know that. And I imagine what those threads look like, and I imagine what the titles of those threads are and what the avatar is for them. Yeah. So that's number one. Um, all right. So next week, uh, let's do the your top three least favorite sayings. So our guest this week, he's an actor, a producer, an activist, an all-around ginger. He's been our king, our queen, our dream girl, our elder, our bard, but most of all, he's our daddy. Please welcome to the show, Rory O'Malley. Hello, all those things.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for having me, guys. That's the best intro ever. That's a bio.
David:Those are all real things. For those of you who want to like do your little like Easter egg research, every one of those represents something that Rory is famous for.
Gavin:There's a lot of YouTube coverage of Rory for sure.
David:This is true. Yeah, and there's some X tube as well, but we this is not that time. We're not gonna go into that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the pandemic was rough, okay? It's a different time for everyone.
Gavin:We did what we needed to do. Actually, this is the podcast to talk about that, but that'll be our fourth question, okay? First.
David:Yeah. Um, first, welcome to the show. We um we everyone on this call is a gay dad who's been on Broadway. That's pretty fucking cool. Yes. Yeah. I think this might be our first time. Whoa. Right? The holy trends?
Gavin:Yes, yes. Yes, I think you're exactly.
David:We've had Broadway people and we've had gay dads, but we've never had a Broadway gay dad before. So welcome to the box.
SPEAKER_01:So let's talk about triple threats. Very special. That's exciting. Shouldn't we be tap dancing while we say that? No.
Gavin:We should. Well, while you were tap dancing this morning, how did your uh how did your family life go and drive you bananas this morning?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, well, it's spring break, so there's no school. Oh, which was the remember when we were talking about scheduling this? I was like, oh, we'll do it during school, you know. People the fear that goes through my body when there's no school.
Gavin:Yeah. Yeah. There should be it should be year-round school, year round, every single day, and maybe just Saturdays off, but we should have school on Sundays too.
SPEAKER_01:I literally, I if if it wasn't inappropriate, I would go up to my son's teacher every day after school and hug her as hard as I could and say thank you. Thank for the child's provider. Thank you for today. You gave me a day. I love you. I love it so much. Uh so when she has her time off, it's it's very difficult. Um no, we we woke up today early because uh Jimmy and I flew by ourselves yesterday back from Cleveland to Los Angeles because I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, and we were visiting family to do it's all about activities, right? Find things to do. So I said, we'll split up the week. I'll go to Cleveland, visit family with Jimmy by myself on a plane, a five-year-old, which is the dumbest thing you can decide to do. He's very, very good on planes, but he's still five. It's still like an anxiety nightmare the entire time you're on a plane with a five-year-old by yourself. And so he was exhausted, I was exhausted, and he woke up like at three in the morning to this morning, like, where am I? What's going on? Like he was like, This is uh what time zone are we in? You know, he was like, This is insane. Why did you bring me to a different time zone for three days and then come back?
Gavin:Yeah, yeah. So uh for only three days, right?
SPEAKER_01:So it's it's currently uh almost nine o'clock. We've been up about six hours. Uh oh Jesus. Oh boy. On and off. On and off. We get sleep when we can. Um but yeah, it's it's been a it's been a crazy morning as it as it always is. That word break is ironic in spring break.
David:Am I right? Yeah, yeah. Break for who? It breaks something. Whose break? Whose break? Yeah, yeah.
Gavin:Besides my spirit, whose breaking really well, since you're so fresh off an airplane, I'm curious. Did you have any dad hacks to get you through that flight and make it more palatable?
SPEAKER_01:Um, all the the ones I'm ashamed of.
David:Like, oh yeah, you're at the right place. Come sit next to us. And an iPad. iPad iPad.
SPEAKER_01:Candy, candy, and just pure uh like promises of what we can do if he behaves. Like, like just what do you want? Anything. Like, just please behave. Um, he he really is he's gotten so good because we do live in Los Angeles, and and my husband is also from the Midwest. You know, so many times families here in LA, they're like, we're going on a cruise, we're going to Europe. And my son's like, I'm going to Cleveland. You know, and they're like, is this a punishment?
David:Why are you going to Cleveland?
SPEAKER_01:And he he, I swear he is because we have so many family members and there's like so many young kids there, he loves going to the Midwest so much. It's all it's the travel that we do is we go to the Midwest. That's what we're supposed to do right now. But he's gotten very good at it. He's great. So I don't want to belittle how great he is on a plane, but it's definitely come with us learning like we have a candy bag, we have everything like programming our iPad before we get on the plane. Like what uh like it is a topic of discussion for a week. Like, I think he'll definitely watch at least six super kitties. If we get enough super kitties and then we get uh, you know, the documentary about Hawaii because he's so obsessed with volcanoes right now. Like, you know, it's it's curating for uh entertainment for a five-year-old for five to six hours on a plane is yeah, it's wild. It's wild.
David:Okay, I have a movie pitch. So it's snakes on a plane, except Samuel L. Jackson accidentally gets stuck on a plane, let's like daycare. Like they're shipping these kids to a different daycare. So he's gotta he's gotta be on a six-hour flight with an entire plane of like three to five year olds. That is that's actually that would be bought in the room. In the room, in the immediate in-the-room purchase.
SPEAKER_01:And that's way more horrifying than snakes.
David:Because because think about it, it's it's not only that you to me, and I've flown a lot with my kids as well, it's not necessarily six hours with your kid. It's six hours with your kid in a space that cannot be changed. No matter how much you cry, we have to sit right here. No matter what you say, this is where we exist. And sometimes kids are like, no, no, no, that's not gonna work for me.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, and then and and and you can't like be upset with them. They don't, they have no idea what's happening.
Gavin:You're the one forcing them to do it. They could have just stayed home and eaten candy and watched an iPad all the way over.
David:Yeah, it is you've got it to yourself. Totally. So let's back up a little bit. So you are now a gay dad. So we don't have to go all the way back to when you became gay, because I think we all knew when that was. Um, but let's talk about you becoming a dad. It's an interesting story. Most of us, you know, it's different for most people, but how did you become a dad?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love, I mean, everyone's story when you're when you are a gay parent is different. It's like everyone has such a unique way to get there. Straight people, it's pretty boring. It's just pretty straightforward, you know, no pun.
David:So um sweet home Alabama and like a Bud Light, you know what I mean? Like that's all you need. None. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No boring. Uh and and easy and cheap. I'm jealous. Um but uh Gerald, my husband and I, we met in New York City. Uh, we're both from big Irish Catholic families in the Midwest. We met in New York City uh in our 20s, and we knew we wanted to have kids one day. And it's just rare in New York to meet another gay who's like, yeah, I definitely want to have a child, for sure. Like, this is what I want to do. And so we started dating in 2008. So we've been together 16 years, and I know that we got to where we are because we always had that in the back of our minds, like, this is gonna be a really good dad. You know, like we're gonna this is, you know, like so. Whatever bullshit we were going through in our 20s, we kind of like this is we're gonna be able to build a family together. So let's figure out how to uh divvy up who's doing the laundry and the dishes, because that's just like bullshit to get to when we're gonna be dads together. And this is like what we were born to do. And uh, you know, we had to work on marriage laws and pass things and you know, like get get everything situated. But once we got married in 2014, almost 10 years ago in September, uh I had lived out in Los Angeles and said, Hey, you know, I love New York City, I love Broadway and everything, but the HO week schedule is so hard without a child. I just, you know, I can't imagine going through it with it with a newborn. And, you know, like let's move out to Los Angeles. I have we have a good support system. I have some cousins out here, let's give it a try, and maybe we can go through the adoption process out in Los Angeles. And I brought him out to LA. He had net he's not in the business, he's not he's not an actor, he's not a uh he's a muggle.
Gavin:What does he do?
SPEAKER_01:He's an executive assistant, and so like he basically works That's a pretty gay job, if I'm being honest.
David:Like there's gay porn and then there's executive assistant. I mean, that's that's pretty gay.
SPEAKER_01:Literally every audition I have is gay executive assistant.
David:A little sassy on like an earphone. Yeah, yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01:And he's not an actor, but he will be my reader in auditions now, and he'll be like, no, I would never say it like that. Because he absolutely is what I'm trying to be. Because I'm not a good, I'm not good at being gay. I'm not the good say uh sassy gay. And he he is, he is it to a T. Um, but anyway, he I I moved I moved him out to Los Angeles. I was like, hey, you're really gonna like it. And you know, we can start a family out here, let's give it a try. And that was in 20 uh 15, right after we got married. And right after we moved out here, I got a call uh to be in a Broadway show, and it was uh called Nerds the Musical. And I I said, Okay, I'm gonna go do this Broadway show, but it's probably not gonna be, you know, it's like maybe a few months. It's the season of Hamilton. So, like, how long could this possibly run? This is a big opportunity. And he was like, Okay, so I abandoned him in Los Angeles, I basically tricked him, I moved him to LA, made him leave the city that he loved more than anything, New York City, and I went back to that city. And and I was like, it won't it won't last long. Well, I was way too Right, because within two weeks of rehearsal, they canceled the production. It closed while we were like the producer came into rehearsal one day and said, Everybody go home. A backer dropped out. We're not opening on Broadway. I remember that.
Gavin:I remember that happening. That's very genetic.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
Gavin:That's Broadway lore for sure. And to have that happen in the room and they just walked into rehearsal and said, We lost a backer, you're done.
SPEAKER_01:Director sobbing. Oh, tail between his legs, like millions of dollars being poured into a theater across the street. We were moving into the Long Acre the next day. Oh there. That is it's like you hear those stories about like Rebecca, you know, like it didn't happen and it was supposed to happen. They never had a rehearsal. We were loading, we were loaded into the theater. Like we that's crazy. It was crazy. And I remembered like turning to people who were, you know, like our stage manager was a total veteran of the business. And I was like, well, this must have happened before. And he was like, no, this is never ever happened. That's like Do you blame yourself? Do you think it was your fault that that's happened? It was me. It was it was me. I was just, you know, too pasty white to be brought back to bed. I'm like, no, it, you know, I was playing Bill Gates. I was so I was excited about it, but I'd only known in the show for about two months. You know, it wasn't something there were people who are making their Broadway debuts, there were people who had invested a decade of their life into getting this show onto Broadway. So it was devastating. It really, it really was. And it the next day, our our beautiful, amazing director, Casey Hushin, was like, let's get into the rehearsal room and basically have a wake and just run through the show for the designers and everybody who's worked on it to just have a performance of our work. And you know, it was totally surreal. So we did that. It was like a lot of laughter and tears and pizza and and booze, and you know.
Gavin:If anybody taped that, I mean, that is a good bootleg video that I would like to see that will become legendary when it's not even revived, when it's produced in nine years.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. It it was it was it was crazy. And I got on a plane the next day back to Los Angeles to with my tail between my legs, to my husband, like, oh, I guess, you know, that didn't work out. Thank you. And I remember he bought me like tickets to go see Bruce Springsteen. I was like, like he was doing, he was, I was, it was a low. You know, I mean, it was just really, really rough. And uh, but two days after I got back home, my agent calls and says, Hey, and I swear to God, this is about adoption. I swear to God that it could be about.
David:We'll get there. That's okay. I'm used to long stories from Gavin. Go ahead. Yes, yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So, you know, we had, we uh I got back and two days later, my agent called and said, Hey, um, how would you feel about going back to Broadway? And I said, Oh, I don't, I don't think I could ever do it again. That was the most heartbreaking thing that ever happened. And she said, Well, what if it's to play the king in Hamilton? And I was like, I'm on way my way to LAX. Like, that show is not gonna last.
David:I'm not gonna do that to myself twice.
SPEAKER_01:And she said, the casting director for Hamilton also was the casting director for the show that imploded. And she was in the room for that run-through. And she was like, Oh, Rory would be great as the king. I know he's available. And and and uh Jonathan Groff, you know, it hadn't even been nominated for a Tony yet. It was like very early in the in the run, about seven months in, and he uh put in his notice to go do Mindhunter for David Fincher on Netflix. So then within two, two days after that, I was on my way to New York and within two weeks, I was the king in Hamilton. That's crazy. Like out of out of blue. And the reason I bring up that whole long story, which is insane, is because it basically halted our adoption process. We got approved and we just were like waiting and going through this whole situation here in Los Angeles. And so I was, you know, meeting with social workers and doing the paperwork while I was in New York and my husband's in LA, and I literally did abandon him to be here by himself then because it's like, well, this thing might have some legs. We, you know, Hamilton might run for a while. And then I was able to get on the tour, the first national national tour, which was going to Los Angeles. So I went to San Francisco and Los Angeles. And on my days off while I was in San Francisco, I would come and meet with the social worker. We would go through the process, and it was this crazy experience of uh throwing ourselves into it, but me not being in the home, you know, having a home study and be like, I swear at some point I will be living here full time. And then probably the first, you know, when you are in adoption, it's basically like going through I don't want to say it's like dating, it's like an audition. It's but to me, it really felt like being uh in an audition of it. You have to have an agent, you have to have a manager, you have to be submitted for different uh opportunities. And I was submitted with my husband for this uh birth mother who was just three months pregnant in Kansas, and she picked us, and all of a sudden we're like traveling to Wichita, Kansas, and we have this woman who's like thanking us because she has several children already, and she's in this horrible relationship, and you know, she's trying to save her family, and it was like this amazing thing. And then we saw on um a Facebook post, you know, you become a detective when you're of course, right? And we saw on a Facebook post a sonogram of the baby, and we were like, oh, okay, so we're the parents who have been chosen, but like she's posting publicly, yeah. So we were like, okay, that seems like a red flag, right? Uh-huh. And and the social worker in Kansas, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's absolutely not. Like, you this is definitely happening. We go back to Wichita, we meet with her, she's like, you know, telling us how she really wants us, and you're like, oh, okay. And you like, you kind of have no choice. You're like, Yeah, what else are you gonna do? Yeah. So we went through another three months of of the situation. I remember I got a TV show called American Princess, where I was like um playing Shakespeare in a Renaissance fair, right? And I'm on set, and uh we are one day away from getting on a plane to go to Wichita and this baby to be born. And I get a call from that same social worker saying, Yeah, a voicemail, saying, Yeah, I'm so sorry, but she's changed her mind. She's going to keep the baby. Oh my God.
Gavin:You know, a voicemail.
SPEAKER_01:Voicemail. And I was on set in the middle of working, like about to go finish a scene. And everyone around me, like I had taken off uh 10 days, they were so supportive, you know, like they were all, it was run a show run by a bunch of moms. So, like, they couldn't have been cheerleading me more, which was so amazing. And also on that day, devastating. I couldn't tell them. I couldn't tell any of the actors that this last day of work that I had was just to go crawl in my room and cry with my husband for a week. I couldn't blow up their day because they had to get through a scene, they had to get their job done. And so I didn't tell anyone. They're all like saying, Have the best time ever. Congratulations.
Gavin:And that was the best acting you had ever done was to get through the rest of that day.
SPEAKER_01:Without a doubt. And I'm just like trying to not sob in front of people. And I just remember the actress who I worked with the most, I told her as I was getting in my car, like at the very end of the day, and just broke down. And she was like, you know, so apologetic and just like held me. And and I went home. And and you know, my husband and I just grieved, and we grieved, and and it was just like you feel like you have been scammed, like you've been hurt. Well, you were. We we were, you know, like you you in that situation, you know that there's no guarantee. You know, the first thing they ask you when you go through the adoption process is how well do you deal with rejection? And I was like, honey, you for a living. Um, that's like literally my job. And I, and that's true, you know, like you we we know how to be rejected. We know how to pick ourselves up back up again and keep going when you're actors. My husband doesn't have to deal with that. So what was worse was having to watch him have to deal with that rejection, that sadness, and not be able to make it better. And uh it was it was horrible, it was devastating. And then we went for like four, five months without any word of and not even like of any other opportunities, you know. And I remember calling our our adoption lawyer and saying, Hey, you know, where are the opportunities? What's going on? And I remember him saying, the summer's really slow, a really slow time. I was like, Are you my agent?
David:Like it's like it's like it's an amusement park. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, like summers are a good time to go, they're really slow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like I was like, aren't people having sex all year round?
SPEAKER_03:Like, right.
SPEAKER_01:Like, what do you mean it's slow? And I really felt like, you know, when I call up my acting agent and they're just like, yeah, the the business is really dry right now. There's not a lot of work out there, you know. But you know, you're what are you gonna do? You just have to wait by your phone. And I'll never forget November 4th, 2018. Gerald had gone up to visit a friend in San Francisco and was taking the train down. It was a Sunday. He was taking the train back down to Los Angeles, and I was by myself and I called my mom, who is just the greatest person in the world, and you know, just a sturdy Irish Catholic woman in Cleveland. And I said, Mom, I'm just so tired of being sad about this. I'm so tired of wanting this. It's been years. I'm just gonna let it go. I'm gonna just let the universe take over because I can't feel this way anymore. I have to let go of my sadness. And and she was like, It's gonna be okay. She was like, I'm gonna pray. I'm gonna pray. And I was like, I roll, you know, like, okay, go and pray. That's gonna help. And I swear to God, I hang up the phone and my social worker calls five minutes later on a Sunday and and said, a baby boy was just born an um hour north of you. Would you want to be submitted to be potentially this uh child's parents? And I said, Yes. We didn't know anything. We didn't, we we literally all just that a child was born and you a child was born on this day and your mom had prayed for it. I I mean, when you start the adoption process, you're so scared that they're gonna be like, here's your baby, you know, on day one. And you're like, I'm I don't know if I'm ready today, you know. But after three years and the heartbreak that we went through, we were like, Who's got one? Who ready? Like, we have the bottles, we have the clothes, we have our friends were like, shouldn't you maybe put these things away? And we'd be like, Why? Why we're going to have a child soon, you know, like we aren't putting these away. We're, you know, we were ready, and our social worker knew it. And this was a child whose birth mother uh didn't know or didn't tell anyone she was pregnant until she went into labor. So she chose adoption that day as a teen mom. And so I called Gerald and he just instantly starts crying on a train. People think something's wrong with him. And uh I get a call back from the social worker, and she said, They picked you. You right now come to the hospital. So I'm by myself and I'm still scared, you know, because we've just had our heart broken and you just are afraid to let your heart open to be able to accept that this is real. And I I pack a bag because I think I'm like, well, I I should bring something, you know. So I and Gerald always makes fun of me because I packed it with clothes for a toddler, I packed it with a bending thing. He was like, newborns don't have teeth, Rory. I was like, well, I don't know. Like, I just wanted to look like I had stuff to be a dad. Sure, right? Yep. And I had like a a toy, like a stuffed animal to give to the baby. But I'm telling you, we didn't know anything. And I, before I get in the car to drive to the hospital, I texted my my mom and I said, keep praying. It's working, it's working. And uh got to the hospital, met this little perfect infant boy who was in a room in a in a NICU by himself because he hadn't gone through any prenatal care or anything. I mean, there was just no knowing what this child had been through. And uh Gerald like jumped off the train, maybe in mid-motion, who knows, and got into an Uber and and had an Uber drive him a couple of hours uh for the rest of the leg so he could get right to the hospital. And I was there to give this little boy his his second feeding of his life. I mean, he was in my arms the day he was born, and Gerald came uh about two hours later, and uh two days later we took him home, and that's our son Jimmy. Uh and he is he is our life, and it's the craziest story, but it also like it literally made it so that that first year of his life, I swear I felt like I was high the entire time because I was so elated that he was real, that this actually happened. And I know every parent can can say that, but like November 4th, 2018, I I've never felt that kind of shot of adrenaline, joy, euphoria. I don't care what Broadway stage or you know, whatever I'll be in my life, nothing will compare to what that moment was for me.
David:Yeah, but have you ever had like a freshly baked anti-n spretzel, like right out of the oven?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no. Okay.
David:I just want you to consider it. There are other things in life that are also wonderful. You're right. No, I can. But like, but but part, I think part of that elation probably was this uneasiness of will it or won't it, and will it stick and will it will not stick for years that was finally gone. Like that moment was like really gone. And one thing you were saying earlier that I was thinking about is like we as actors often are used to rejection. I don't, I don't know if you agree with us. I don't think we get we we take rejection better. I think it still hurts us. It's the next step, like you said, and then what? And then we leave it at Ripley Greer Studios, right? And then we walk away and we we we do something else. I still think the rejection hurts. It just hurts at a shorter amount of time because we know that carrying that with you is just not valuable.
SPEAKER_01:100%. I totally agree with that because it it always hurts. It has to hurt because if it doesn't, it means you didn't care in the first place. You can't throw yourself into something artistically without caring. And you know, you try, you you'll you try once you get hurt so much to stop caring, and but then you can't do the work. Then you can't like throw yourself into it. So really it's just about the recovery after after the hurt.
Gavin:But then I'm kind of dying to know. One, when you were talking about getting the phone call, I did want to know did Gerald was he able to get off the train, or did he have to go all the way back to Los Angeles the entire time, or did it make stops along the way? I'm glad to hear he was able to get off an Uber along the way. And then do you send any Christmas cards to Wichita to just be like eat it?
SPEAKER_01:I do not. I can't guarantee that my husband hasn't.
David:Um I love I love that high-level shade. I love that.
Gavin:That is some executive gay shade.
SPEAKER_01:That is that is CEO level shade.
Gavin:Yes, it is C suite.
SPEAKER_01:First of all, my husband's the one who discovered it. Like, I wasn't like playing the detective. My husband was the one who was like, no, something's going on. I like so this is the thing. When when that happened and we were so sad, everyone, no one knows what to say to you. It's just like, you know, it's like grieving when you when somebody loses a loved one, it's it's hard to know exactly what to say. And a lot of people were saying, your baby is out there, you know, like this is just what happens on the way for you to get to your child, which is 100% true, which is absolutely how I see it now. But in that moment, all you want to do is give them the finger and say, get out of my face. I don't want to hear that right now. I'm furious, I'm angry, I don't want to hear how this is all gonna work out because it hasn't.
David:Yeah, everything doesn't happen for a reason. Stop it. This is not comforting me even a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, it isn't. And the best thing, I always credit her, Jamie Dembo, who is was the showrunner of American Princess, the show I was working on at the time, you know, and everyone's saying all these, you know, things that are sweet and beautiful. She came up to me in my first week and she said, Rory, I know what I'm supposed to say, but you know what? Fuck that baby. Fuck that baby. That baby sucks. Yep.
David:Absolutely. Fuck that baby, Rory O'Malley. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I laughed so hard, I cried, right? That's good. And that is, you know, like sometimes there's that person who knows what you need to hear to like address your anger, your frustration. And I'll never forget her saying that to me. And, you know, I've I've gotten to be that person for other for other gay parents who've gone through some things.
David:To be able to say, fuck that baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I listen, I'm gonna, I'm already gonna put this press release out to Broadway World. Royal Malley says, fuck that baby. Um, speaking of Broadway, let's go to some things that you did not um get rejected by. Um, arguably, you have done quite a number of high profile things that people just fucking love you for. But I would argue that your your your first was one of your biggest, which was let's talk about it, Book of Mormon. You were our one of our elders. And tell us a little bit about how you got that. And like, did your life change as dramatically as it feel like it should have?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I mean it, it uh I was I was in New York City. I had been an understudy on Broadway before uh I went on my my Broadway debut was going on for Josh Gadd, uh, who was my college roommate and you know, best friend. And, you know, it was wild because I was his understudy and a bunch of and a swing for a few other people. And I had this great experience, but it was like six months, you know. I went on like 16 times, and then I went back to my temp job to work at BlackRock Financial and the human resources department. That's where I worked, and I worked there for three or four years on and off. Anytime I would get an audition, they'd let me go uh go and do it. That's why it was a great, great job for me. No doubt. And I remember being at my desk at BlackRock Financial, and my agent called and said, Hey, um the South Park guys are doing a musical about Mormons, and um, it's top secret. And they've asked you if you would be in the ensemble. And I was like, Yes, you know, like get me to this. And I'll and I signed up to to do it. It was totally just because there was no audition. It was very un it's just because I'm so pasty. Like I'm the one
David:For those of you just listening, he's I mean, you're not only you're pasty, but you're our second, I think, ginger in a row. Last week we had Owen Squires. So I think we're probably breaking some sort of law at some point. But yeah, yeah, you wait.
SPEAKER_01:The light reflection through the screen might might damage them. Uh but yeah, no, I mean that's why I I got, you know, like I was the whitest person and I could sing. And also I remember asking Carrie Gardner, the the casting director, I was like, Well, how you know, years later, I was like, why did you call me in that first time? She was like, We needed a redhead. And I was like, Oh, thank God, you know, you some people don't even think I'm a redhead, like I'm I'm barely a redhead. I was like, thank God.
David:The flippancy of the business at that point, because that is true, that what you went through is not uncommon. I see it on the directing and writing side all the time, and that is just so fucking heartbreaking. Who puts their heart and soul and life into this art? And it's like, oh, he's just he's red, is he? Yeah, okay. And now you're a fucking thing.
Gavin:But it also just means staying power and perseverance, and eventually, hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, you're the one percent who knocks it out of the park because you were there and you answered your phone and you were sort of a redhead, which is awesome.
David:So were you always gonna was McKinley always the role it was, or were you just in the ensemble and it kind of got made for you?
SPEAKER_01:It was a three-year period, which I would say was put together line by line. The first time we did the reading, I had there wasn't a McKinley. There was no, there was no really it was the guys wrote the the first act, the first time we read it out loud, and they just wanted to see if people would sing these horrible things out loud. You know, like they would say that. Which is kind of questionable.
David:I mean, there are those. It is aggressive in the best way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I I there there was an electricity around those early days because it was top secret. We all had to sign NDAs and promise not to discuss it with anyone because it was so sensitive. I remember Bobby Lopez, Bobby Lopez, you know, e-got now winner, Bobby Lopez called me up after when I did the first, agreed to do the first reading before our first rehearsal and said, Hello, my name's Bobby Lopez. And I said, Yes, I'm aware of your work. He had done Avenue Q, you know, and I was like very excited to get a call from him. And he said, There's a song in the show, you don't sing it, but there's a song in the show that's an African song, and it basically translates to fuck you, God. And I'm calling every single cast member to make sure they know that this song is in the show so you don't feel blindsided, blindsided, blindsided, excuse me, uh, the first day. And I said, Well, did you, Matt and Trey, write it? And he said, Yes. I was like, then I know it's gonna be great. I don't know what story we're telling.
David:I love that that was the call and not Joseph, don't fuck the baby. Like, I love that, like, don't fuck the baby was not the first call. It was like, are you okay with like throwing God's name in vain? Right.
SPEAKER_01:That didn't that didn't exist at the time. Okay. There were literally like eight songs. It was basically, you know, like this small version of the first act, and it didn't have a second act at all. There certainly was no turn it off. There was no, there was no second act. So it was just really trying to see. I think they were trying to decide between whether making it a movie or making it a live Broadway show. They knew that they had something, but they weren't sure what it would be like to have actual people instead of animated characters sing these songs. And we we did the workshop and it was just it was explosive. It was a reading, you know, it was just us holding scripts, and uh it was like everyone felt in the audience and on stage like we were a part of something that would change Broadway and like are we allowed to do this? And Trey was like, Yeah, this is the best place ever. I can say whatever I want. There are no sensors, I can literally do anything. The only thing that uh is the judgment is if people want to buy tickets to it or not. That's it. And so I think they felt really liberated to do whatever they wanted. And we spent the next three years while I was working at BlackRock Financial on and off, um, working on these different characters, and all of a sudden I was I, you know, my first bit was I I hit the doorbell in hello a couple of times, and then they had the Mormon boys go away. And basically the producers were like, you know, if we're gonna hire 12 white boys for two numbers, we're gonna need them to be in the story through the end. Like, you can't just have that. So that then they were like, Oh yeah, so they go to a mission in Africa and the boys are there, and then all of a sudden there was this character, Elder McKinley, and they let me play it because I had a couple of bits uh in the beginning. And then they were like, actually, he's gonna be a closeted gay person, and and he, you know, turns it off, and then they wrote the song Turn It Off. And I was like, Oh my god, this is this is insane! And then they were like, It's a tap number, and I was like, Oh shit. Uh and then I like you know, brushed up on my tapping skills, which were minimal. But uh I had a basically a three-year period where this part was put together line by line, and I was a part of the ensemble, and really not until we got a Broadway contract did I realize it was going to be a principal role, you know, like when enough solos and and lines had come together.
David:And Tony nominated, drama desk nominated, ladies and gentlemen.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, or as my husband calls me, a Tony loser. Yeah, you know, yeah.
David:It's the best kind of loser to be, honestly. Um, what I think what's so successful about that show, and this has been said a thousand times, but it's true, is that like that comedy, because I worked in Salt Lake City quite a bit, so I knew a lot of Mormons. I was around that culture a lot. It is all out of reality. It is all every the the broadest, most ridiculous parts of that show are all born out of truth, which is why it's so funny. The turn it off stuff is so fucking real. The amount of people I know who will have anal sex before marriage because it doesn't count, like the amount of like gymnastics going on in their heads, it is, and that's why that show is so funny, is it's played so straight.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No, no, and and you know, Matt and Trey have a you know, they grew up in Colorado and around a lot of Mormons, and I think they have a real like fascination with all of that, you know, like the mental gymnastics.
Gavin:And really, it's a statement about religion in general, like what you totally is saying that you believe, and it was one of my favorite theater reviews I've ever read, where it kind of ended saying, you know, religion's something along the lines of, and I bet you remember it, religion kind of screws us all up, and but life is better with it, with some kind of belief, right?
SPEAKER_01:Right, with faith, you know, like they're they they say it is that their atheist love letter to faith, you know, that that's basically what what the show is. And I, you know, I grew up very, very Catholic. I I have I I'm not practicing and I don't have those beliefs, but I certainly have a respect for uh faith and believing in something bigger than yourself, and I have an appreciation for like prayer and meditation that like those skills that were given to me. Now maybe I'm not saying the rosary, but when I'm like set my watch and do a little meditation, it definitely is something that I'm familiar with because of how I grew up, you know, and there's there's something there. I don't think we have to hate gay people on the on the way there.
David:Uh but and don't fuck any babies, right? No fucking up babies.
SPEAKER_01:That's true. That's a good rule.
David:Um, so what is does Jimmy know about this? Like, have you shown Jimmy any of your performances? Is he impressed?
Gavin:Or would he cast you in his the story of his life?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely not. He's not impressed. He thinks it's very strange. He just cares about trains, space, uh, construction. Um he does not, I beg him to watch like Encanto and Frozen. He likes them, but I it's like pulling teeth. I'm like, can't we just watch these every day? And no, we gotta watch like, you know, we literally watch uh a documentary about black holes on a regular basis.
Gavin:I I mean, hey, you don't you're not gonna know what happens when you go to MIT later, but you'll be like, oh well, you won't have to deal with quite as much rejection as I did.
SPEAKER_01:So right, right. No, I've I've literally brought him to online tours of uh JPL and NASA and you know, like this, because kids just bring you on their path. You're not gonna bring them on yours.
Gavin:They are gonna bring you on the I'm trying every single day to bring my 12-year-old on my path. It's weird. I don't seem to be learning any lessons because she's not.
David:Oh yeah, I I think I'm I hope my kids are not gay. I don't want any more gay people in my life. I'm done with gay people. I want straights only. I want to understand, I want to learn about straight culture, I want to learn about straight mannerisms. I will I want them to teach me, is really what I want.
SPEAKER_01:I will be happy if if if Jimmy's straight. That's great. My husband has said that he will have to come out to us as a straight person. Oh, I can't wait. There's no way that phone call that we're not gonna let make him do that. But but I just don't want him to be a bro. Like, I mean, I don't, you know, like I I have to say, like, I don't have a ton of straight guy friends. Like, I just I have so many great female friends, I have so many great gay friends. I don't have a ton of straight male friends, and I realize the ones who I'm close with are just not broy, you know. And now that my my son likes golf, oh no.
David:Oh my god. That's it. He's gonna start studying finance in college. Do you know what I mean? Like you're he's gone. I know he's a lost cause. Yeah, lost cause.
SPEAKER_01:I'm telling you, I'm a little panicked about it.
David:He's gonna start educating you on crypto and blockchain now. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know, I know. I'm like, please, dear God, I don't want to be raising.
Gavin:Coming out as straight is one thing, but coming out as a bro, I can't wait to revisit the podcast with you in 10 years when he has to do that. Yeah. We'll bring you back for like, yeah, 12-year anniversary and see what's going on.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I've been afraid of. Is like, I'm trying to put myself, you know, like pretending I'm this like straight jock dad who has this little musical theater son. And if he came to me and said, I want to go see musicals or I want to do this, like what would I want that dad to do? I would want that dad to push through whatever fear he has and take him to a Broadway show and you know, push himself even if he doesn't like it. That's what I would expect of that dad.
Gavin:So now that it's reversed, no, it doesn't need to be universal. Fuck that noise. Nope, just be a hypocrite like all of us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I brought him to a driving range in our neighborhood. There's a public golf course, and I when I tell you the amount of fear and PTSD that came over me just to go up to this like counter and ask for a golf ball bucket and get like I'd be like, Can I go over here? You know, and you're just talking to all these bros.
David:You're just waiting for somebody to scream faggot at you. That's what you're waiting for. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. The entire time I'm just thinking they're gonna be like, get out of here. And then probably like the first one to do it will be my son. He's like, I know you don't belong here. You suck.
Gavin:He's homophobic. I know, I've heard that. Well, speaking of him then screwing up your life, you've gotta have a shit story or two for us.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god. There uh when you know, driving back and forth from uh Ohio to Indiana is because my husband's family lives in Indianapolis and my family lives in Cleveland. It is a dangerous drive. It is very dangerous for two dads and a child because every rest stop in between those two cities is in a very rural town that is probably never seen two gay dads, right? And I and is that a generalization? Yes. Is it probably true? Yes. Like I am telling you the looks that we get there are a lot. And and and mind you, like if you're a dad by yourself with your child, nobody's like, oh, there's a gay dad. I mean, maybe for my husband, but you know, like you're not like immediately out, but when you're like two men with a child, people are like, those are two homosexuals. Yeah. Because two straight guys don't usually end up in any scenario just being with a child. Yeah, it's so crazy, you know? Like it's kind of like outing yourself to to have a child. And going into we went into a uh a rest stop on the on our drive in the middle of nowhere, uh like close to the border of Ohio and Indiana. And we went in, it was it was like a lot of people were around, but you know, like it was because everyone's going on their holiday travel. We go into the family restroom, me, my husband, and our son. That's that is making a statement, unfortunately. It's making a statement, right? And to be honest, we didn't even think about it because he had a blowout, right?
David:Because he he shit his pants. Like we're not thinking about what this looks like. We're trying to like get rid of this soil diaper. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, you are in panic mode. He had he shits his pants in our car. We're looking for the closest rest stop so that we can get to work on dealing with this shit storm, literally. And so we just go into the bathroom, we're getting taken care of him. You know, it is not a nice bathroom, but we're getting the job done. He's fine. We open the door, and the manager of the rest stop is staring at us. And it's like, uh, can I help you? And we're like, uh as if we were just having fun in there. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it was it was crazy. And so we were like, uh, we're fine, sir. He follows us to our car.
Gavin:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:Stares at us, and we were like, What's gonna happen? You know, like taking our like uh license plate number down, like this is insane. You know, it was you should have handed him the shitty diaper, been like, here you go. Exactly.
David:This is the fun we were just having in your family restaurant. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I mean, we had, you know, like create that's like that as actually like awful and terrible that that you know, that the was the situation that we were in, and it's you know, you don't even think about it, like how that's gonna be uh so we truly like when we drive now, we make that drive all the time, and we try to stop in Columbus or in bigger cities so that we don't have to be in that situation. Obviously, you know, our son is out of diapers, so it's a little, it's a little different, but you still you still think about it, you still get a little bit more and still capable of shitting himself, as are we all, frankly. So you know yeah, absolutely never ends, never ends.
David:Yeah, the wrong, the wrong night at the Mexican restaurant with some margaritas. Do you know what I mean? Like we're all in our 40s. It could happen, it could absolutely happen. So um, before we uh uh sign off here, I always ask the same two questions at the end, which is what is your favorite part of parenting and what is your least favorite part of parenting?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god. My favorite part of parenting is I mean, uh it's just so funny. He's so funny. Five is awesome. Five is so great. Like, I if I could like it's still hard, it's still difficult, but he is so funny. He just he's able to be this hilarious human being, he's getting a sense of humor, and I just I enjoy every aspect of the crazy shit that he says. Um and the thing I I dislike is uh just like feeling tired in a way that I just can't verbalize or explain to anyone.
SPEAKER_03:Well said.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I'm lit the like I haven't stopped drinking this coffee here this entire time we've been talking because I'm like, I am so afraid I'll just like fall asleep after this crazy night that we had. Um, and I it it just it's relentless, you know, it's it's relentless. And it's somebody was talking to me who doesn't have kids and was, you know, like, well, we're trying to think like if we should have kids or we shouldn't. And uh, you know, like you have great you have wonderful support system with with uh Jimmy's grandparents. And I was like, my my mom and and my husband's parents are literally the greatest people in the world. They live thousands of miles away.
David:Yes, it's wonderful, but like but if they can't take him right now so I can poop by myself, I'm going to that is not a support system.
SPEAKER_01:You and I was like, I don't, I'm not trying to scare you, but when you have a child, you are on your own. Do not like, yes, it takes a village. I I believe in a greater community and you have to build out that support system, but in your house every day, you and your partner, if you have one, like my mom was a single mom. I don't know how to do it.
David:Oh wow, yeah. She's that's why I totally get when people have kids and they move to their uh near the near their parents. I have never understood anything more fully because not like you said, not having an option. If you have a big blank, like you have a big audition or a audition or whatever, and you are sick or your kid is sick, but you like you're yeah, sorry. Like there's there's no other options except spending a lot of money to get through it. But even then, like even if you have babysitters, we have five babysitters we call because almost all of them are never available. No, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Like, oh yeah. No, and and and and my son is really good with with new people, he's good with babysitters. I just got like um a membership to one of those, I won't say a website, you know, that that has babysitters. And I I'm like, put out the SOS. We need somebody, we need them tomorrow. I don't care. Do they do they have have do they have any certifications on this website? Then they're gonna be absolutely fine. Like in the beginning, the first time we had a babysitter, we left the house and I sit turned to my husband, I said, Are you are are you okay? Like, do you feel good? And she he said, Yes. I'm just trying to make sure I can remember her face for the police sketching that we might have to do with that's like how comfortable he was.
David:That is amazing.
SPEAKER_01:And now, you know, five years in, we're like, just please anyone.
David:Take this child for me. You can do it. Somebody take this child for me. You're just like, you're just like waiting for the windowless fan to drive by the front of your house, and you're like, hey, there's a basket of puppies in there. Um, and with that, we bid you adieu. Rory O'Malley, thank you so much for demeeting yourself by being on our stupid little podcast. Um, we are big fans, and thank you for so much.
SPEAKER_01:Right back at you guys. This is great. It's so wonderful to have a place to have these conversations, and you know, you're you're awesome. So thanks for having me.
David:So my something great obviously has something to do with TikTok, but I went to Scotland last year and it was a dream of mine. It was an amazing trip. And now I'm on Scottish TikTok, of course, and I'm obsessed with Scotland. And now with TikTok, I get to hear all kinds of people talking in Scottish accents all the time. Tour guides, people who live there, whatever. And I just think the Scottish accent is so enjoyable. I'm sure some people it sounds like no uh like nails on chalkboard, but to me it's just beautiful and I love it, and it's sexy, and I want to hear it all the time.
Gavin:I think it's a superior accent to other British accents, basically. Like it's the one you hear kind. Of the least. Now, can you can you demonstrate your Scottish accent?
David:Gavin, I was in Shrek the musical for like 15 years. Yes, I can do it. Well, so no, now I feel put on the spot and I feel embarrassed. Thank you very much for that. That's not something great, Gaben. The way you're making me feel is not something great. What's your something great?
Gavin:What's something great is American Express and their customer service? And I just appreciate that's so fucking stupid. I hate myself right now.
David:Oh, why? American Express. You're you're a card carrying member. Listen, mine last week was United Premier status. Right.
Gavin:Oh. Well, it's true. I had to call MX about uh what was it? I don't even remember what would be Oh, I was making some travel arrangements. And um every single time I really do think, ooh, I get to call MX because they have really amazing uh customer service, and the people are actually really helpful. And I'm always happy when I turn off the uh when I get off the phone with them. So I have to say that is something great.
David:And unfortunately, that is our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.
Gavin:Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM Vaughn everywhere, and Gavin is in debt everywhere.
David:Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.
Gavin:Thanks, and we'll ruin your life next time on another episode of Gatriarchs!
