The one with trans Dads Brett & Wyatt

Y'all we are SHOOK this week, also David goes to a waterpark with his kids, we discuss the top 3 worst sayings, and this week trans Dads Brett & Wyatt join our chicken coop to talk about their life in Canada, what the adoption process was like for them as trans people, and why they ran down their street screaming and holding a bloody baby when it wasn't even Halloween

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

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Transcript

Gavin: 0:00

But it just feels like I'm I'm being academic. Uh let's just give it a try and maybe we'll put it in somewhere else, okay? Hey. Unre and this is paid Gatriarchs.

David: 0:12

This is what now? I almost said you try you try to get there too fast. You gotta let you gotta let the Gatriarchs tag just sit there. And then you've got to reach out and grab it, and you gotta say You gotta tickle it a little bit. Oh, see? God, wow. This is this is not this is maybe. I was just gonna riff with you. Maybe podcasting is not for you, Gavin. I know, I know. And this is Gatriarchs. Gotcha, bitch. Oh my god. We just had an earthquake. And I noticed I know, I know this is news three weeks ago, guys, but like Gavin and I were literally just about to record. We were both on Riverside, and all of a sudden I went, What is that? And Gavin looked at me weird and I threw my headphones on. I run upstairs and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? I had this conversation with my husband. We realized there's been an earthquake. I come downstairs and Gavin's like, I felt it too.

Gavin: 1:15

Well, you yes, you had abandoned me. I abandoned. So I was just sitting here and then I'm like, wait a minute, why is somebody shaking my wall? What? And then it kept going, and then it kept going. And then I heard you yelling from the other room, let me see if Gavin felt it too.

David: 1:32

And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I did. Crazy. I did. Yeah. We don't have that shit here. We we uh we just we don't allow those things in these parts. But guess what? It happened, and it was really fucking weird. But anyway, the people on the uh west coast are like fuck you guys, we get earthquakes every eight minutes. But for us, we're not used to it. And it was exciting, the whole ground was shaking like a real earthquake.

Gavin: 1:53

Anyway, I've had people texting from all over the country, and you know, I mean, we we will rebuild. We will rebuild here. Uh, but it was um it was really exciting. I have never in my life felt an earthquake.

David: 2:07

We popped your earthquake cherry. That's nice. Um so I want to talk a little bit about an event I went to this weekend. Not an event. We I took my kids to the water park. Now, let's talk about it, first of all, because I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old.

Gavin: 2:22

And I want to talk about what it is still April. It's not like we recorded this in August. What water park is open?

David: 2:29

So I live near uh the world's largest indoor water park. It's called the American Dream Mall. So it's all indoors. It's in the middle of the winter, it's still like 100 degrees in there. It's amazing. Yeah. Anyway. Wow. I I have a I have an issue with water park people. Now, this is not a new take. Everyone has heard this take before. But why are theme park people and water park people the worst people on the planet? We come to this, so we come to this water park and it is packed. Whatever. It's packed. And there are no chairs anywhere. You have to just like everyone's shit is all over their chairs. Yeah. So we we come across way in the back corner, these like three chairs in a row that have no stuff on them. And we're like, great, this is we'll park our stuff. We park our stuff, we go in the wave pool. We're in the wave pool. We come back a couple times, do snacks. We go back in the wave pool. We come back, and a woman has moved all of our stuff and thrown it on the ground next to this chair. And she's sitting there with this fucking look on her face. Like, wow. She's like, I dare you to come for me. And I'm holding my two-year-old daughter, and I go, excuse me, did you throw our stuff on the ground? And she comes at me with a force of a thousand megatons. She's like, Okay, you, I was here first. You threw my shit down. And she's like screaming at me as I'm holding my two-year-old daughter. And now this is where like two roads diverge in a yellow wood. I was like, all I want to do is throw down with this girl. I want to match her energy, her maturity level. But I have a two-year-old girl in my hand. And I'm like, I I I A, I don't, you don't win fights with these kind of people, right? Like, this is not a like, she's made the decision that I moved her stuff or whatever. But I so I was like, you know what? Here's maybe here's what happened. Before I came here, somebody moved your stuff, and I all I saw was blank chairs, but my stuff was. But what I wanted to say was like, babe, we've been here for 45 minutes. I promise you, this is not true, and you've maybe you you're you're misled. But it was crazy. I had this woman like screaming at me, and I had this two-year-old girl in my hand who's kind of watching us, like, what is going on? All I wanted to do was get arrested, but I did not. But on the way in, I have this like moment of fake outrage because I walk in and there's like women's room, and then I walk a little bit, and then it says family changing room. And then I know I can kind of see further down, it's like men's room. And I was like, Oh, I was like saying my husband, I was like, we should go in the family changing room. And we take one step in and it says women with children only.

Gavin: 4:59

Oh wait, and it's a private, a private stall room, or what it's like a changing room, but it's like women with children.

David: 5:07

It's like family room, and then somebody's like taped a sign, women with children only. And so, of course, Brian and I are both like, oh, fuck this place, and we're gonna do this with this. And then you're gonna write a letter, and then on our way out, we're walking out, and we happen to miss the other changing room that's family changing room, men with children only. And I was like, God damn it.

Gavin: 5:27

We had footprint- Oh, the world is a better place.

David: 5:29

We had foot fake outrage. But anyway, I will say it was surprisingly a really great trip. My son got on the yellow slide, which if you don't know what the yellow slide is, the yellow slide is like the medium big kids slide where it's like six to eight-year-olds ride it and he's only four, but they let him do it because he's tall enough. And he was like, I don't want to go by myself. I was like, Well, they won't let me go on. And he would, you could see him just trying to decide if he was gonna bail or not. And he went, I'm gonna do it. And he just sat down and he just like shot off. And I, like, my heart leapt out of my chest because I was like, he's gonna go around the twisties. I can't see him. He's just I'm just gonna have to meet him on the bottom. And it was one of these moments where I was like pushing the baby out of the nest. It was kind of sad in a weird way, but I was very proud of him.

Gavin: 6:08

But I'm proud of you both for getting through that. And uh, and it is a big deal to watch your kid suddenly disappear down a slide. I too have had a few water park experiences, although in retrospect, not as many as even I would like to. I mean, water parks are like amusement parks. You think, oh god, it's just gonna be so expensive and so full of obnoxious people, and I'm gonna hate every second of it. But wow, I can't, I know how to be Eeyore, don't I? But ultimately, they're so fun. And you look back on it and you're like, you only remember the good times. And um, I definitely, my kids being a little older, we have done those, I don't know how to describe them, but they're like a hundred-foot drop, vertical drop. You get, you know, sealed in a bullet and it you get, you know, and you just drop. And I watched my little kid, gosh, he was maybe five or six at the time. He looked just so minuscule. And I watched him disappear, and I thought, oh, I'm gonna be arrested now. I should not have done that. I should not have done that. Um, and lo and behold, the only thing lost in that episode was when I went down and I lost my credit card because it was in my pocket and I never found it again. But but they still found ways to get money out of me, that's for sure. But water parks are kind of the best.

David: 7:24

They are the best, but we I really made uh I had such a great time, and it was mostly because I was like, I'm just gonna enjoy my kids and the way pool. I'm not gonna like stress out about the people, I'm not gonna stress about this woman in fucking champion underwear yelling at me. And then also, I'm not gonna stress about like OPKs, which we talk about all the time, other people's kids who I hate. I hate other people's kids. All of them. OPKs We had we had we had a really great time, I will say. And it was like one of those, and it was it was just one of those great experiences where, like, surprisingly, nobody shit in the water, nobody hit their head, nobody did any of that stuff. It was just other than this woman screaming at me, um, it was it was a lovely time.

Gavin: 8:04

Um, related to water parks, but not at all, except it was a bar. I was hanging out with some friends the other night, and we were talking about the podcast. And it reminded me how we might I remind our listeners have been doing this for over a year now. What is this? Episode 60? 60. 60, yeah. Which I'm proud as fuck is us of us, you know? Yeah. And we have made a real concerted effort recently to be diving into finding new guests because, frankly, I'll put it out there in the world, it's getting harder. And part of me thinks there should be millions of parents out there who can speak eloquently or at least comedically, yeah, about being a gay triarch, whatever that you, and being a parent, right? But it's hard. And I was talking to these guys the other night, telling them about the podcast, and they're like, you know, you just need to have some people from TikTok on. And I'm like, yeah, I've I've heard that before. But I started to say to them, you know, it's kind of surprising how few of us there are, because in reality, there's not that many queer parents out there. We just take up, you know, 49% of the airwaves in the news of the histrionics of people thinking, oh God, we're going to hell in a handbasket, because all these people are gay and all these kids are turning gay, and all these gay parents. Really, there's not that many, right? Did you know? So I'm here to bring some stats and some reality to us, all right? So try not to fall asleep. It's interesting. Did you know what would you say is the percent of US adults who identify as gay?

David: 9:47

Are we talking about queer in general, like all the things, or just I don't know.

Gavin: 9:50

The website that I was looking at a few seconds ago.

David: 9:52

It doesn't matter. Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna guess 13%.

Gavin: 9:57

5.5%.

SPEAKER_04: 9:58

Okay.

Gavin: 9:59

Which is then, you translate that into real numbers because there's a lot of people in this country, 13.9 million.

David: 10:05

But if you if you actually if you asked that same question to people under the age of 20, I guarantee you would be 30 percent. Oh, I agree.

Gavin: 10:12

I agree with you. And these stats are from 2019, which isn't really that long ago. Although, as we know, gay conversion took place greatly during the pandemic, obviously, because it was um just RuPaul's. If you're bored, just be gay. That's really what yeah, yeah. Exactly. Um, 36% of uh gay people live in the South. That's five million. Fourteen point three percent of people in Washington, DC identify as queer. Wow. I think that's somehow hilarious. Insert political joke here. Uh 1.5 million queer people in California. Um amongst young adults ages 18 to 24, that percentage is 15.2 percent. Although I would agree that it's probably higher now than it was just a few years ago.

SPEAKER_04: 10:58

Yeah.

Gavin: 10:58

And uh that translates to 4.7 million people ages 18 to 24. Um, which 4.7 million sounds like a lot, but when you put the percentage in, you're like, okay, it's not that many. Now, as for couples, there are 357,000 people who are married, gay people who are married, or 705,000 same-sex couples, you know, married or otherwise. Uh, of those, 114,000 are actually raising kids. That's so like what 25, 30 percent? That's uh quite a bit. Of of all of the gay people. Of the couples. Yeah, of the couples. Of the people who are coupled, yes, that's a fairly high percentage, but of the gays in general, not that many. But 24% of all of the gay couples are female parents. Eight percent of all of the gay couples are male parents.

David: 11:54

I'm missing some numbers.

Gavin: 11:55

There's because there are many, many um gay couples, many of them married, not necessarily having kids. So, of all of those couples, there's 24% of those gay couples are lesbian parents, uh-huh, and eight percent of those all those queer couples are gay men raising kids.

David: 12:14

So, what happens with the other 48% of kids. They're married or they're coupled, but they don't have kids. Got it. Okay, got it. Oh, I love it when I feel smarter. And then um, and then uh That's okay, it's just you and I talking right now. All of our listeners have deleted this episode at this point.

Gavin: 12:31

Yeah, well, anyway, it just brings us down to like we we do have this kind of interestingly existential problem because even though those are big ass numbers, still we're looking for people all the time. And um, and it seems like there are so many of us because you hear about us all the time in the news, but it's really not that many.

David: 12:49

So and if anybody out there is having trouble sleeping tonight, just play this episode back a couple of times, and I think you'll go you'll go right to sleep.

Gavin: 12:57

I think those numbers are interesting.

David: 12:59

I like it's it's super interesting. But you know what's not. Don't play Kate. You know what's really interesting? Tell me our top three list. Gate three marks, top three list, three, two, one. So, our top three list this week is our top three least favorite sayings. Uh, and this is my list, so I will go first. Bring it. Uh number three for me, when somebody says, you know, I give 110%. Let's talk about fractions, people, and percentages. This is a math episode after all. There is nothing more than 100%. If you can't eat more than 100% of a pie. So if you give 110%, I worry for you. So number three, I give 110%. Number two, that's what it's all about. Because I hear that's what it's all about about a lot of things. So, what is it actually all about? Right? And number one, this thing makes me makes me want to jump off my roof. Everything happens for a reason. A, no, it doesn't. B, of course it does, because everything happens after something else. But there, but the idea that, like, no, yeah, you got into that car accident because the guy at Denny sneezed a little bit. Like, no, no, it didn't. Stop it. Everything does not happen for a reason. And also, yes, everything happens for a reason. Okay, what about you?

Gavin: 14:19

So, for my top three list that I of the my least favorite sayings, uh, number three for me, man up. I uh I definitely think that we need to put that one to bed. So, manning up is uh something that needs to go by the wayside. Although sometimes I just want to be able to say, you gotta toughen up, kid, right? Which I suppose you could say toughen up instead of man up. Anyway, number two, Venus is in retrograde. Oh my god. Leave the astrology out of it.

David: 14:48

I hate those people. Because you are making excuses for your behavior. Your poor behavior is because the moon is turned a little bit differently. No, it's not Cynthia. No, it's because you're a fucking nightmare. That's what it is.

Gavin: 15:02

And um that always goes hand in hand, I think, with people being like, oh, why is it always me? Why is it always me? And I feel like this is just victimization. Get over it.

David: 15:10

Why is it always you? Because it's always you, babe. It's you, you're the problem. Yeah, look at the low. Ockham's razor, babe.

Gavin: 15:17

The common denominator there. And then my number one term that I simply cannot abide anymore is X trumps X. Because I used to use the phrase trumping something all the time. And now the linguistic gymnastics I have to do to get around it is very difficult because I still, frankly, to this day, cannot figure out what else to say.

David: 15:40

I mean, it's funny, like he ruined American democracy and also your little phrase. So my little phrase.

Gavin: 15:46

Just that term.

David: 15:47

What are we doing next week?

Gavin: 15:49

You know what? For next week, I want to hear the three songs you want to be played at your funeral.

David: 15:56

Oh, that's dark. I love it. So, our next two guests are gonna be my first call when America falls, because they're dads, sure. They're adorable, sure, but they live in Canada. Brett Mason is a counselor in private practice who works with individuals, groups, and families, and additionally as an educator and clinical supervisor. And Wyatt Riot is, and I'm quoting from his own bio here, a white, fat, queer, and trans person who can be found creating magic in the kitchen, in a body of water, reading or introverting. I love how you turn introverted to a gerund. Please welcome to the show, Brett and Wyatt. Welcome back, guys.

SPEAKER_01: 16:37

Thank you.

David: 16:38

Hi, everybody. Um, so I I it we've been talking about it all episode already, but do you know that we just had an earthquake here on the side?

SPEAKER_01: 16:46

Yeah, I was just saying that to Brett. I was like, I wonder how they're doing. Yeah. Did y'all know?

David: 16:53

We're shaken up a little bit.

Gavin: 16:54

We were we are shaken up because we are so excited, but we are this is not gonna be the PTSD of the rest of our lives. No, for sure not. You live in, do you I mean you wait, remind me, you're in BC? We're in BC. That's earthquake country, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 17:10

Yeah, it is. They um scientists predict like a massive earthquake that's gonna put like half of the island we live on into the ocean.

David: 17:18

Oh well, are you on the good half or the bad half?

SPEAKER_01: 17:21

We're on the good half.

David: 17:23

Oh, good.

Gavin: 17:24

Does that mean quick painless death or mass societal disruption?

David: 17:30

Or does it mean doubling your property value?

SPEAKER_00: 17:33

Who knows? A bunch of death, because I think there's a bunch of like disaster preparedness things that have happened, but um yeah, who knows?

David: 17:45

That sounds very Canadian. It's very Canadian.

SPEAKER_01: 17:49

Yes, I'm from California, but I've never felt an earthquake. I've like slept through them, or I think I've thought that it was like nothing. I don't know.

David: 17:58

Yeah, yeah. My my husband grew up in California and he uh and Los Angeles, and he talks about it all the time. He's like, I grew up in Florida, so I'm used to hurricanes. When somebody's like a hurricane's coming, I'm like, so and he's the same way about earthquakes. But when I was in California and I felt the fucking ground move underneath me, I was like, not interested in this even a little bit. Um, anyway, enough about earthquakes. Let's talk about you guys. So you guys reached out to us because you're like, hey, have you ever had any trans dads on the show? And I was like, no, and will you be our first? So we are popping our trans dad cherries. Yes, you guys. And we'll always remember our first. But we wanted to bring you on and just talk to you and just like, A, you're parents now. So obviously we want to hear all the horror stories. But B, I think there's a lot of really cool stuff we can learn from you because I think being a trans parent is not as a lot of people don't know what even what that means. So, like, beyond the obvious, like, what does it mean that you're trans dads? Um yeah, just remember this is an audio platform, so pointing does not help.

SPEAKER_00: 19:03

We pointed ourselves. Um, yeah, we're we're both trans, so we're both transgender, and we're dads, we're parents. Um, so yeah, it's pretty simple.

Gavin: 19:13

Yeah. It is it is simple, but it's not always simple for everybody else else. I mean, it's funny how you know, of course. We live in a world where people can't wrap their head around an awful lot of things. But the simple fact is you're two dads and you have a kid. So you're two trans dads with a kid. It's plain and simple.

David: 19:33

Yeah, I want you to explain this to my uh MAGA family. I want to sit you guys down at like a Denny's in like South Carolina. I don't want to be like, hey guys, have fun, I'll be back in an hour, and then I want to record it.

SPEAKER_01: 19:45

Oh my god, that sounds like torture.

David: 19:47

But I mean, do you do you guys ever have to run into people like that?

SPEAKER_01: 19:51

Uh I mean, not really in the day-to-day. Um, at least not to our faces. Like, we live in a small town. Town on Vancouver Island. And I think most people know our story to some extent. Not sure what version, not sure what they know exactly, but like we're kind of the oddballs in town. So I think people are just kind of used to that at this point.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

It's also really different to live in like rural Vancouver Islands than like rural Alberta. So I'm from Alberta, and that's kind of like the Texas of Canada. All of the conservative bills, even like, you know, they wanted to separate from the rest of the country because everything else was too progressive and nodding to loving oil. Um, so anyway, rural Alberta is a real different feeling than like rural Vancouver Island, which like people kind of come here to like escape Vancouver, but they're still quite progressive. So politically, Vancouver Island is kind of strange.

David: 20:57

It's always funny that like Texas and all these like super conservative places want to secede. I'm like, baby, if you seceded, you your economy would collapse. You guys are dependent on the blue states. What are you talking about? Anyway, that's a whole fucking different show.

Gavin: 21:13

But also just go too.

David: 21:14

Yeah, actually go.

SPEAKER_01: 21:16

Yeah.

David: 21:17

Like Florida, we're good. We gotcha, Florida. We're good. We we've all been to Disney once. We're good. You guys can go. Um, anyway, so let's let's go back. How did you guys meet?

SPEAKER_01: 21:27

We met by way of a mutual friend who attended a conference in Portland that Brett also attended, who was kind of like afterwards kind of said to me, like, you two should meet as in like a one-night stand meet.

David: 21:43

Uh-huh. Sure. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01: 21:45

Facebook, who is this? Are you cute? Ad friend. But like, I didn't think a whole lot of it. And if you told me then fast forward to now, I would have been like, What are you on? You know, like, what?

SPEAKER_00: 22:00

One key detail that Wyatt left out is that um why it hit on me on Facebook, which like he denied for years, but then we had to look up our whole story for immigration because you have to like write out every detail. And so, yeah, we maybe not every we have the screenshots, the original. I don't know.

Gavin: 22:18

And what was the pickup line? Yeah.

unknown: 22:20

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01: 22:21

I thankfully don't remember. I can blame parenthood on this beautiful memory.

David: 22:27

Of course. Um and also But we just know that Wyatt was thirsty and but drank it up. I mean, like, that's really the story.

SPEAKER_01: 22:35

Kind of, I think at that point was just kind of like, I don't know. You live in Calgary, I live in Portland. What do I have to lose? Will you ever be back in this part of the world? I don't know. Year later.

Gavin: 22:48

So it was at the conference that you met then?

SPEAKER_01: 22:50

No, I wasn't at the conference. I was working. Uh, a friend of mine is who saw Brett and was like planted the seed, I guess, in my mind. I don't know. Right.

David: 23:07

Everybody needs a friend who's trying to get them late. That's all I'm saying. Everyone deserves that friend. We we need a pimp friend.

Gavin: 23:16

And were was was being uh was fatherhood always in the the conversation of your um initial romance?

SPEAKER_01: 23:25

Oh yeah. I mean well at the very beginning, maybe not so at the very beginning, but like separately. Well, I'll speak for myself. I've always wanted to be a parent. Actually, with my ex-partner, we tried to become parents, and thank fuck that did not happen.

SPEAKER_04: 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:42

At the time was heartbreaking, of course. But um, very grateful for that. But yeah, I mean, I think once we got more serious and things, it was like we want two kids. We want two kids. It was always two kids.

David: 23:57

And so, so tell us how did how did you become a parent? Like, how did you do this? Was there ever a discussion about should we have these biologically? Should we do surrogacy? Should we do adoption? Like, what was the conversation like?

SPEAKER_01: 24:08

Yeah, I mean, like we explored different options and thought about what to do, but ultimately it was like adoption.

David: 24:16

And why was that?

SPEAKER_01: 24:18

It seemed like it aligned with like what would work for us as a family. Um we're not having kids. Surrogacy seemed out of the picture in terms of like finances and things. Also, in Canada, it's a lot harder to find a surrogate because there is no payment.

SPEAKER_00: 24:39

In Canada, like if you are a surrogate, you don't get paid. Like the family could pay your rent or pay your phone bill, like whatever, you know, might make your life easier while you're pregnant. But like, yeah, they don't get like a lump sum of money at all. Interesting. Not like a ton of incentive for people to be surrogate.

SPEAKER_01: 24:57

So there's there's not as many people who are willing to be surrogates. So it kind of felt like could we afford this? Also, would we even find anyone? And I mean, don't get me wrong, we didn't go into adoption thinking like we'll become parents. I had moments of like no one will choose us.

David: 25:16

Uh-huh. Why? Why did you think that?

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

Uh, well, it's good, it's easy to be Eeyore sometimes.

David: 25:23

It's easy to be what?

SPEAKER_01: 25:25

Eeyore.

David: 25:26

Eeyore.

SPEAKER_01: 25:26

Yes.

David: 25:27

Got it.

SPEAKER_01: 25:28

Woe is me.

David: 25:29

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01: 25:30

Um, also, I don't know, like, thankfully, we're not for everyone. And I think in my saddest moments, it was like, uh, you know, are we too queer? Are we too trans? Will no one like us? Which, like, I'm sure there are people that don't like us and great. But here we are.

unknown: 25:53

Yeah.

David: 25:53

Yeah, because you wanna like you wanna keep in mind RuPaul saying, you know, what other people think of me is none of my business. But at the same time, you're putting your bobber in the pool hoping somebody will pick you.

SPEAKER_00: 26:05

Yeah.

David: 26:05

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:07

I I think there was a lot of just like yeah, stuff around like not being picked because we're trans. And when we started reaching out to the adoption agency, they were like, Oh, you're the first trans people we've ever had here. And it like, you know, sometimes being the first of things feels like cool and groundbreaking, but also sometimes it just feels like, oh, is that because like trans people never get picked or will never get picked, or like, you know, what is what is the issue here that trans people aren't adopting? Um or you know, feeling safe to be out as trans as they're adopting, because that's another piece of it. Yeah, I doubt that we're the first, but we're the first.

Gavin: 26:46

No doubt. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned that um Eeyore syndrome or that fear, which frankly we all have. I mean, every single person on the planet is insecure, and we're able to, we as queer people are able to kind of label ours in a certain sense of like, oh, it's because, which is kind of a helpful tool. But how do you help? Because you both work in the mental health realm, right?

SPEAKER_01: 27:14

I mean, I am a stay-at-home dad and hang out with our one and a half year old.

David: 27:20

So you have your mental health is shot. That's basically what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01: 27:24

But we also do run some groups together, so right.

Gavin: 27:27

You run in that world, and I suppose how do you reconcile your own insecurities with you know beefing up the confidence of others?

SPEAKER_01: 27:36

I mean, good question. I think like we all go through like the roller coaster of life, and some days you wake up and are like things feel nice, and other days you're like, no. So it's just like I guess just being real with it, like that's life. Yeah. You're gonna hit speed bumps and you're also gonna, you know, be okay.

SPEAKER_00: 28:00

Yeah. I think starting it, I um I think I felt like more positive about us getting picked because I was like, you know, this could happen, you know, like it's not like 90% of people have to pick us, just like one birth parent has to pick us, and then we'll be parents or two if they're um, but but yeah, I also had had some friends who'd adopted, um, whereas Wyatt didn't. So I think I saw that more as like a possibility.

SPEAKER_01: 28:25

But they weren't trans. So like there was that piece because like that seed was sort of planted of like, you're the first, you're the only. It's like okay.

SPEAKER_00: 28:36

Yeah, you know, like I think it's easier to be a cheerleader for other people too than for yourself. So like with clients, um, you know, we'll often do things like let's check the facts of this situation or see what's really going on here. And people often have like a skewed perspective, but you know, sometimes like people are also talking about like real discrimination too, right? So sure, um, it's kind of like both in this case of like, oh, we were maybe more negative than we needed to be. But then there also is this like um anti-trans bias that exists in the world.

David: 29:13

Yeah, for sure. And you know, Gavin and I, before we jumped on, were talking about how as a marginalized group, period, whatever that means to you, it can be exhausting having to be the first or the educator or the the sideshow or the marquee. But then also, if you just say, Well, I'm not gonna do that, then who is the oppressor? So there's like this terrible balance that we feel sometimes of like, I've got to be the one telling my story and leading the charge on this. And also, I'm so tired of being the only gay parents in the room. Obviously, like it's different for you, but we were literally just before we got on, we were having that conversation.

Gavin: 29:46

It it's a proverbial cross to bear, but it's also almost a privilege. I mean, an awful lot of the times when I feel like an ambassador, I think, you know what? I get to change the world in this little place by showing people that uh I'm just as normal as they are. Normal is just sometimes different. But I mean, whatever label you want to put on it, I'm able to destigmatize. And I'm and because we are we all in this um Zoom room.

David: 30:16

That's not what I meant to say. Can you believe Gavin thinks he's our ambassador? Can you believe that he thinks he's carrying the burden of the entire gay parent community on his shoulders?

SPEAKER_01: 30:26

Or on your shoulders.

Gavin: 30:28

I mean, my God. I know, but when we when we act as ambassadors and we're able to uh to de-stigmatize, it's it's a privilege also. And um, and I want to be able to uh I trust myself to do it and and help people know that hey, we're all just one big happy family, you know? It's I I don't want other people to do it.

David: 30:46

So you guys are Eeyores, but guess what? You got picked. So let's tell let's talk about it. You got picked, how how did that all go down? Uh when did you get to meet your kid? Tell us everything.

SPEAKER_01: 30:56

I mean, it was the evening that our kiddo was being born. Brett was outside staining a deck chair. I was on gunadrill after a wasp sting, feeling extra probably just you know in pain. Um, and I remember Brett just like running into the bedroom where I was, being like, why, why, why? And I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_00: 31:24

Like, and Brett's like, I basically was just like, we've got the call, and why it was like, what's the call? Yeah. So we we talked right then to the social worker, and it was interesting because like stuff was happening as we were on the phone with her. Like she was like, the convo started as like, you know, it looks like there's a baby who's gonna be born soon, who like the birth parent picked you guys, and we were like, What? And then like as we were talking to her, we got more and more details. She was like, Oh, yeah, the baby's being born like right now, like as we speak. Not like, you know, you've been picked and babies due in like six months or a month or a week. It was like babies being born.

SPEAKER_01: 32:08

Yeah, it was literally like, oh, I got a text message. Oh, emergency C section is happening now.

Gavin: 32:13

Oh jeez.

SPEAKER_01: 32:15

Okay. Oh my god. Trying to stay in the moment, listen to the details. Also, your head is like, what do we need to pack? What do we need to do? Yeah, because what is anything?

SPEAKER_00: 32:26

We needed to travel like the next morning, like first ferry sort of thing. We live on Vancouver Island, so we have because of course you do.

Gavin: 32:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 32:35

Um, so yeah.

Gavin: 32:36

Were the chickens taken care of by the time you got on the ferry?

SPEAKER_01: 32:40

The chickens were taken care of. We had someone for the dog and the chickens.

David: 32:44

Oh man.

unknown: 32:46

Yeah.

David: 32:46

You guys are so granola, it's crazy. But we love it. But it's so like so you get on the ferry and then you go to this hospital, and what happens?

SPEAKER_01: 32:54

And then we meet our kiddo and their mom and like spend 24 hours in the hospital. Um, like we were allowed to leave that evening, but she had requested that we stayed because she had an emergency C section, so she wouldn't be discharged to the next day. And I don't think she wanted to be alone. So I don't know. We stayed with her. It was it was kind of magical. It was magical. Like, even our social worker was like, you know, you don't see connections like this very often, and like it is atypical, I think is what she described it as. And it was just like a really wild and sweet 24 hours that we all got together of not sleeping.

David: 33:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:45

And you haven't slept since exactly I've slept a little bit since then, but I do regret not sleeping the night before we left because I set myself up for very sleepy. Like I was like, Brett, I am drunk. I cannot drive.

David: 34:12

It's not what anyone needs to hear me say. But we all need to Now give me a baby.

SPEAKER_04: 34:17

That is what I felt.

unknown: 34:19

Baby.

David: 34:19

Oh, baby. And then you have like, you know, it's like when you wake up from a nap that you've napped for too long and you're not sure where you are or who the president is. It's that feeling for life. So um enjoy it. Um, so wait, so do you still have a relationship with a birth mom, or was this like a godspeed?

SPEAKER_01: 34:35

Uh, I mean, she has her info, so if she ever wants to reach out, we hope that she will. But as of this time, no.

David: 34:42

But it was, it seems like it was a positive interaction, it was a positive, like, here's your kid. Yeah. I wish you the best. Yeah. And so now you're parents.

SPEAKER_01: 34:50

Oh, very sweet. And now we're parents, and we're wild enough to try to do it again.

David: 34:55

What is the matter with you?

SPEAKER_01: 34:57

That's fantastic. Just yesterday had her um second home study approved.

David: 35:02

So awesome. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01: 35:05

Whoa. We also have a one and a half year old. So what are we doing?

Gavin: 35:08

Yeah, so how is it? How is it and where is it? And by it, I mean the one and a half year old.

SPEAKER_01: 35:15

Sleepy.

Gavin: 35:15

Okay. Thankfully. Good timing.

SPEAKER_01: 35:17

Sad time. How is it going? Is that what you were saying?

Gavin: 35:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 35:22

Yesterday was a wild adventure. I'm glad we're meeting today and not yesterday.

David: 35:27

What happened?

SPEAKER_00: 35:29

Oh, this was, you know how you've asked us to prepare some parenting horror stories? So I think we had like our biggest parenting horror story yesterday.

David: 35:38

Oh shit.

unknown: 35:39

Yeah.

David: 35:40

What happened?

SPEAKER_00: 35:41

Our baby is fine, so like, you know, we can talk about it now. But last night I would have been very upset. But anyway, they uh our baby and I were gardening outside, and they like are just learning how to walk down steps instead of like crawling backwards down steps. Um anyway, so they tried to walk down a step in the garden, like concrete step to concrete driveway, fell flat on their face and hit their face on the driveway. And then, you know, like babies fall all the time, and I'm like, oh, is it that bad? And then they just like lift their head up and their like nose and mouth is like full of blood. And it's like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01: 36:25

And I can hear them while I'm inside, and I, you know, there's a lot of crying and fussiness because toddlerhood and such. And I was like, this sounds a little extra. It's okay. Like, I reassured myself, and then Brett opens the door, and it's just like something happened, and I'm like, oh my baby, you know, just my baby. Just like panic, and you're just like, what do we do? And like there's an urgent care, just like a block from here, two blocks from here, and we were like, let's just run there, and so we do, and of course, it's closed, and like it was just like one of those things of like after another stuff just carrying a bloody baby down the street, not knowing what to do.

David: 37:11

Like what is happening.

SPEAKER_01: 37:12

We stopped the bleeding. I was like, we iced it. I was like, it's okay, we can stay home. I think this is like my American side of like, I haven't had healthcare for much of my pretty much most of my adult life specifically. I'm like, we can manage this. And Brad's like, Eeyore. And I'm like, and so we went through.

Gavin: 37:37

So that's a rallying cry amongst you two is Eeyore for hell no, this is not okay.

David: 37:45

What it must be like to live next to you guys, the sounds coming from the garden and the the cheering and the quotes and the wasps.

SPEAKER_01: 37:53

One of our neighbors has three kids. I don't think they notice us at all. Their hands are full. Our other neighbor is a teacher, so like I think, yeah.

Gavin: 38:06

So, how did you solve the great uh massacre of the child's face um at age one and a half?

SPEAKER_00: 38:14

Uh icing it. We did go to the eight, we did go to the hospital, but um we were there for four hours. And six ambulances came in, and I basically asked the clerk, like, you know, how far down the list we were, and she was like very low. And we were like, okay, it's like 9:30, 10 o'clock, like not sleeping will probably do more harm than good.

SPEAKER_04: 38:39

Totally.

SPEAKER_00: 38:40

We basically realized that it was their frenulum that got like hurt, so the little bit of skin between like the gums and the lip. Um, and yeah, just bleeding. Dr. Google, it bleeds like hell, but heals really fast. And it even said online that it like almost never needs stitches. So we were like, okay, we're gonna go. We have an appointment actually later today with the public health nurse, so we'll talk to her in the day. Um yeah, our kiddo's fine, and the swelling's already going down today, and you know, just like icing and popsicles and stuff are really helping.

Gavin: 39:17

So, assuming that yesterday was a very stressful day for you, what did you learn about yourselves in your parenting styles in this crisis?

SPEAKER_01: 39:28

You're more likely to go to the ER, and I'm more likely to give a popsicle.

David: 39:35

And then they marry each other. I mean, is really the story here, right?

SPEAKER_01: 39:40

And somehow we're still together after all these years of popsicle and ER. So, to be fair, there have been points where, in my case, I did need the ER, and Brett pushed me, and the popsicle was not the answer. But yeah. Somehow we survived and You know, they have a little bit of a fat lip today and they just look a little rough around the edges.

Gavin: 40:05

But panic like that, I have certainly found, David. I don't know about you, but I have certainly found that in my relationship, there is one of us who panics and one of us who does not panic. And uh and it's very it can it can be a sticking point later, but also I think that it's a very natural biological approach to we need to have some emotion and we need to have some level-headedness at the same time.

David: 40:31

I also think that like, at least in my relationship, like it's not always the same person who's the panicker. And I think who whoever panics first, the other person automatically counters to like, let's get practical, right? Because like I could easily panic and so could my husband. But if my husband's already panicking, so we can't both panic. Yeah. This is why gays shouldn't have children, honestly. It's because they're both gonna panic and then watch RuPaul's drag race. But but but I I find myself like he starts panicking, I go, okay, let's be smart, let's find somebody, let's do this. And then if I start panicking, he does the same thing. So I think that's Did you have a similar experience yesterday?

SPEAKER_01: 41:04

Yeah, and I think that is true. Like there have been other points of like oh fuck moments. I think we were more panicked yesterday. I think I was more panicked too because all like all of a sudden you both come in the house and I just see blood coming from this little face, and I'm like, you're not supposed to have that.

David: 41:20

Yeah, were you attacked by a wolf? What the hell is going on in Vancouver Island?

SPEAKER_01: 41:23

Yeah, because I like reassured myself, like it's okay. And then it was like, no, I was right. My instincts were right, and I like squashed them. So it was like big, but you know, it's just like come into my arms, give me that baby.

David: 41:37

Yeah, oh god. And then so now they're okay, and now you're like, let's let's double our pleasure, double our fun.

SPEAKER_01: 41:44

Yeah, and so let's do this again, let's have all the bloody noses.

David: 41:48

Absolutely, and you're trying for two. So when you're going into this adoption number two, are you going into it differently? Like, what's different about this time with your with how you guys are kind of situated mentally?

SPEAKER_01: 41:59

Yeah, I mean, I I feel less eory. It feels less like heavy.

SPEAKER_00: 42:06

Yeah, the stakes feel a lot lower because like though we would like to have a second kid, and I think what changed for me was like after we adopted our baby, like at the beginning, we were like, no more kids, like one is like way more than enough. Like, how does anyone ever have more than one child? Um, just because things were so hard, and like, you know, you sleep for half an hour and then are waking up like every single night, and it's yeah, anyway. Um, but then you know, we started sleeping, things felt a little more easy, so now we're more into it. But I think it's also for our kid. Like, we want our kid to have a sibling, we want our kid to be able to relate to someone else who's adopted.

Gavin: 42:49

Um it is funny how you do uh amnesia definitely sets in. So you forget the PTSD of early babyhood, and you think, whatever, it's fine. And we all know it's the hardest thing ever, but you do it is survivable, and it'll be great to have a second one.

David: 43:08

And it's the the and it's also like the little things that'll trigger you because I totally agree with Gavin. It is you you forget, and then you go through it a second time and you're like, oh fuck, that's right. And the other day I was cleaning my daughter's room, who was my son's room, and I sat in the like little rocking chair and I looked out the window and I saw this like neighbor's porch light that I used to stare at at like three in the morning when I was like holding the baby, and I went, Oh god, this is terrible. We are not having a third. But like you, I think you're designed to forget that shit. So the human species can continue.

Gavin: 43:41

Otherwise, yes, we would never have any replacement population whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01: 43:45

Yeah, every now and again when we have like a rough night, which is like nothing in comparison to like newborn rough night. I'm like, we're choosing to do this again.

Gavin: 43:57

You are choosing. That is one of the things that gay parents get. We we do don't get a pass on it. There is no accidental anything. There's no whoopsie babies, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 44:07

So I sometimes wish because it would make it easier, but alas, but alas cheaper.

Gavin: 44:12

Alas I am curious to know. Um, parenting or otherwise, Wyatt, is there what do you miss most about the United States and Brett? What do you secretly wish you had that was American? Aside from Wyatt up in Canada.

SPEAKER_01: 44:29

It's not a secret. Oh, good question. Honestly, other than like people I miss, there's like very boring capitalistic things that I miss. Like I miss Winco.

David: 44:44

What's Winco?

SPEAKER_01: 44:45

Pacific Northwest um grocery store. It's cheap, it's like cooperatively owned, which is cool, but it's just like cheap, tons of stuff. Like if you go into a grocery store and you're like looking at cereal, you only have like so much. When you go to an American grocery store, it's like holy shit, there's everything.

SPEAKER_04: 45:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:10

Um, so I would say Winco, Trader Joe's, and Target. Otherwise, and also like if I never went to any of those again, would I survive a hundred percent?

David: 45:22

Absolutely, yeah. What about you, Brett?

SPEAKER_00: 45:25

Yeah. Like, other than the friends piece, like my my first automatic thing was like phone plans, which I'm like, why do I even care about phone plans?

David: 45:39

Just like the daddest dad thing ever. Like, I want a good solid phone plan, is what I want.

SPEAKER_00: 45:44

Yeah, they're expensive in Canada in comparison. They're about three to four times as expensive, but then it's like, but we have free healthcare, so like you don't pay for college or band-aids, or gun violence or trump or anyway.

David: 45:57

Yeah, it's it's pretty, it's pretty, pretty shitty over here. But we have Trader Joe's, so I guess everything is fine.

SPEAKER_01: 46:03

And Winco and Target. But yeah, I would trade all of that and never go back.

David: 46:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 46:10

Sure.

David: 46:11

So I want to finish off by my favorite question, which is what is your favorite part of parenting? And then also, what's your least favorite part of parenting?

SPEAKER_01: 46:19

Favorite, getting to see them like become more of who they are and like discover the world.

SPEAKER_04: 46:28

Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 46:30

There's just like magic in seeing a kid like explore the world and like be fascinated by things and have nothing holding them back. Um yeah, I think that's like really sweet. The hardest part, honestly, is seeing them get hurt and also not sleeping, just to throw my second one.

David: 46:54

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01: 46:55

I love sleep.

David: 46:56

Yeah, what about you, Brett?

SPEAKER_00: 46:58

Oh I don't know. There's so many good things with like how to pick just one. But um, yeah, just like seeing them grow is really cool. That's also like the flip side is that's the sad thing because you know, like they're always learning and like doing new things, and you're like, wow, how did you learn that so fast? And it's just so cool to see. Um, but then it's also like, you know, oh, but you're not this tiny like six-pound baby anymore who doesn't want to like cuddle all day. Our kid is very active, and so the cuddles have been replaced by squirming around and trying to eat dirt and stuff. Um so I don't know, and yeah, the worst or hardest things, yeah, it's the I don't know, saying goodbye to tiny, tiny baby, maybe, and the sleep is definitely a challenge.

David: 47:52

Well, sure. Well, the good thing is that you're gonna add a second child to this mixture, so the sleep will for sure get worse.

Gavin: 47:59

So I and it's never gonna get better.

David: 48:03

And it's funny because I think the second kid just the like the goalposts move on either side where like the worst is worse and the best, the the good stuff is even better. Like it's just like more intense of all the things. But I'm sure you guys will. I can't we're we're bringing you guys back when you have your second kid, and we're gonna like ask like, okay, how is it with a second kid? But but we're out of time now, unfortunately. But thank you so much for coming by and we're glad that your uh your kid is okay. Yes. And uh, we wish you the best on your adoption journey.

Gavin: 48:32

Thank you, Wyde and Brett.

SPEAKER_01: 48:33

Thank you, thank you.

David: 48:36

So, my something great this week is uh we talked a little bit about in the beginning of the show about my trip to the water park, and it really was really great. And we were walking uh just towards the changing rooms, and nobody was talking about anything, nobody told anybody to say anything. We're just kind of walking, and my four-year-old turned to me, and his exact words, my husband texted to me, his exact words were to me, Daddy, thank you for this wonderful trip. Oh like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, who is it? It's taking you four fucking years to show me an ounce of gratitude. I literally turned to Brian. I was like, Did you tell him to say that to me? And he goes, No. I was like, Emhad, oh my god. I was like, it just like was so fucking magical. So that was my something great this week. What about you? My something great this week is teachers.

Gavin: 49:22

As if we need more reasons to be grateful for and say thank you for our great teachers. Last night, my kid, uh my younger son, had a great feature in his little musical. And what was thrilling was uh his teacher from last year, who had left, is at another school now, came to see the fifth graders. So his fourth grade teacher came to see the fifth grade musical. And he, my kid, I think was one of the first over to hug her, and they just all surrounded her, like you know, fifth graders do around a teacher that they love. And then last night we were saying goodnight. And I said, What was the best part about your day? You were so good in your musical. It was so you were just up there and you you spoke so well and you were funny and everything. He said, Yeah, but I'm really glad I got to see Mrs. Alger. And I just thought, wow, when a teacher touches a life.

David: 50:11

Yeah. And that's our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

Gavin: 50:19

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFMPon everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge at happy hour.

David: 50:29

Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.

Gavin: 50:33

Thanks. And we'll embarrass you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.

David: 50:47

So tell us about the groups you run.

SPEAKER_00: 50:49

Um, yeah, we're gonna be running a group for folks who are to SLGBTQI plus who are um in the process of adopting. So for folks who are like in the home study or who are a waiting family, um, and let's say they're queer or um or trans and they're, you know, going through this process, it can be really isolating. Um, a lot of adoption agencies don't have a ton of queer families or trans folks who are adopting. Um so it can be nice uh to have this space just for just for folks in our community to get together, bitch about the shitty parts of it, like talk about what's going well, learn some things. There's an educational component. So, yeah, that's our adoption group. And do you want to talk about the options group?

SPEAKER_01: 51:39

Yeah, we're also gonna be doing like a shorter group that's just learning how to expand your family as like queer folks, because generally speaking, it's not gonna be whoops. So it's just like, what is adoption? What is surrogacy? How could I carry a kid? Where do I get an egg or sperm, etc.? Just that kind of thing.

Gavin: 51:59

So you're spreading the wealth of that knowledge for sure. That's helpful. Yeah. You know, something you just said, Brett, um, reminded me that for those who are not in this sphere a lot, they might not have the lingo. Can you explain what 2S, LGBTQ, means?

SPEAKER_00: 52:15

Sure, the 2S is two-spirit. So that's for indigenous folks who are part of the queer community and who identify as two spirit. Um, generally, like two-spirit, it's not just about being queer and indigenous, but it's also about having like cultural roles and cultural ties to um someone's specific tribe that they're from around like what was the traditional historic and current role of two-spirit people.

David: 52:42

And so where can people find information on these groups?

SPEAKER_00: 52:45

Uh on my website, uh, so brettmason.ca slash groups. Um I also have um social media for my counseling practice too, which is just um Brett Mason Counseling on Instagram and on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01: 53:00

Spelled the Canadian way. Two L's counseling.

David: 53:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 53:06

I'm constantly screwed by spelling. I don't know how to spell anything anymore.

David: 53:11

You could thank American educational system for that.