The one with Nick Pflieger

This week, we are caught big-time by Gavin's daughter, David almost throws up at the poker table, we beg our listener to join our Facebook page, we list the top 3 songs we want played at our funeral, and we are joined this week by Wisconsin's own Nick Pflieger aka @PsychitsNick from TikTok, where we talk about his social media break, what he sees most in kids as a school psychologist, and why the best cheese should squeak in your mouth.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

Gavin: 0:00

And it just makes me really happy. All of my songs just make me happy. And I'm like, hey, if you're at my funeral, I want you to celebrate, even if it's uh under some awful trans uh tragic circumstances.

David: 0:10

Let's not dwell on that. Is that that syntax you just attempted?

Gavin: 0:14

Is that the tragedy where oh my God, it's just a constant tragedy. Wow.

David: 0:21

Gavin, it's 1127 a.m.

Gavin: 0:24

Well, you know, this is Gatriox. So last week was spring break, and I had a lot more quality time with my kid than I've had in a while, right? So we, you know, we had some ups and downs, but we were communicating. We were communicating. At one point, she says to me, Dad, you say a lot of bad words. And I'm like, What do you mean? No, I don't. She said, I have listened to catrior's. And I'm like, oh no. I immediately slipped into, sweetie. Listen, it that is not suitable for children. It is not meant for children. It is certainly not meant for you.

David: 1:16

But at the same time is not child appropriate. It's not meant for kids.

Gavin: 1:23

But at the same time, I I stand by everything that we have said on this show. I do. And I don't think that there's anything actually offensive if you don't have a sense of humor. But also, like, uh listen, sweetie petiti. Yes, I call her that. If you listen to something and it makes you feel uncomfortable, come to me. Because I really do curb the things I say. Because listen, you're not two years old anymore. I curb the things you say, and I and I'm gonna I I I can make disclaimers, I can go back and edit it. I can take out the stuff, I can take out the stuff. She stops me. She's like, Dad, calm down. I got bored after like a minute and a half. Nobody would listen to that.

David: 2:02

Did you tell her there are we have we have like five listeners? So she can just fucking suck it. How about that? Um, yeah, the jig is up now.

Gavin: 2:10

How about that overpriced that that overpriced Starbucks in your hand? That was paid for not by Gatriarchs. So you're welcome.

David: 2:19

Yeah, you know what? That's that's like it makes me nervous that she's listening or has listened, but it also I agree, doubling down. What we say, we we stand by what we say. And and listen, my daughter is two, and so I can really fucking lay into her. I can I can talk shit about her endlessly.

Gavin: 2:37

Um, so um and she's not gonna give a shit in eight years, that's for sure. We will podcasts will have been replaced by AI robots anyway. So, you know, we'll we'll never make our$700,000 from it, and she won't give a shit anyway.

David: 2:53

So, speaking of bad words and bad things said out loud, if you've listened to the show for longer than five minutes, you know I play poker professionally sometimes.

Gavin: 3:00

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We have not discussed this. Yes, we have. No, our listeners, you and I have, but our listeners do not realize that you're a Sometimes.

David: 3:08

I play poker professionally.

Gavin: 3:10

And by the way, I think next week, I think next week our um interview topic should be gay card sharks. So you, guess what, everybody? You, David is our guest next week.

David: 3:22

Oh, nice. Everyone skip that episode. So I was playing poker, and um, you know, it is a very heteronormative sport. Okay, I get it. I've learned to assimilate. It's a bunch of like disgusting looking guys sitting around a table in their like late 20s, early 30s. So anyway, I'm at the poker table, I'm playing, and this guy kind of mentions to another guy next to me, oh, I just had this new baby, and they're talking about like having a kid and all the things. So I'm like, oh, I can like maybe jump into this conversation. It's like a level playing field. Yes, I'm gay, you're straight, but like we can talk about babies and all the things. And I'm gonna play with your mind now, also, so that I can win at poker. Is that part of the manipulation? It was not at the time, but yeah, no, that's a good idea. So the the the guy who I feel like I'm not helping this conversation. You're you're actually railroading it quite significantly. And I'm trying to tell a beginning, middle, and then I'm about to get to the funny part. And twice you have just totally fucking railroaded this story. So I they're talking about it, and then the the the guy was like, you know, uh, you know, sh my wife is breastfeeding or whatever. And then the guy says to him, I can't even say it like my I'm like I'm choking back vomit. He goes, Yeah, breastfeeding. It's fun to watch, huh? Straight people, straight people, are you okay? Straight people, are you legitimately okay? I am really worried about you. If this is the conversation you're having. Now, he didn't mean it like it's fun to watch as in like, wow, it's cool to watch your baby, you know, get it.

Gavin: 4:54

No, he was like, This is a this is a turn on.

David: 4:57

His eyes narrowed, his like eyebrows went up a little bit. He created he had that like Grench smile where it slowly creeps up on one side, and he was like, It's fun to watch. And I I I about lit myself on fire. I was like, Are you kidding me? What is the matter with you people? So straight listeners out there, please write us in and ask and and inform us. Are you okay?

Gavin: 5:21

And you y'all who are into this and listening to this podcast podcast, please start an internet fight with us so we can get six more listeners, please. Oh my god. Wait a minute, what was the response?

David: 5:32

I I I don't know. I blacked out at that moment. I legitimately blacked out. The wall started closing in, and I just because I was I was getting ready to cut, it was like double touch. I was like getting ready to get in there. I was like, oh, I have a two-year-old and a four-year-old, and let's talk about baby things. And and right as I was about to open my mouth, he said that and I went, This this is not for me. This conversation was not meant for me. And I think I need to move out of state.

Gavin: 5:58

Oh my god. Yeah. Wow. That's gross. Was not what I was expecting you to talk about at all. Or how that conversation was gonna go. Wow.

David: 6:08

So, Gavin's daughter, we we hope you enjoyed that little story. And we're glad that you have liked and subscribed.

Gavin: 6:15

Sorry, sweetie, that I have just, if I didn't embarrass you every moment of the day, I have just quadrupled down and truly made you ashamed to be part of the family. Sorry.

David: 6:27

So speaking of family, let's talk about creating our own. Okay. So I listen to some other podcasts and I really like them. And what they've all seemed to do very successfully is kind of create a community from their listeners in like usually a Facebook page or something like that, where like another world can exist, right? So I there's a uh really great uh podcast called The Screenwriting Life that my friend and uh friend of the show, Lori McKenna, hosts. And they have a Facebook group, and inside the Facebook group, there's tons of cool conversations and videos, and it's like really cool. And so I was thinking we need to do that for gay trics. I know there's men having babies and gays with kids and stuff, but I feel like Gay trics is a very specific kind of parent and kind of gay dad. And I think let's have a forum where we can just share the disgusting memes and laugh out loud. So here is my bid to you, listener is please join our Facebook page. It is basically a shell at this point. We've done almost nothing with it, but we're we're gonna change that. So if you are a fan of the show, if you like the show, if you want to kind of you know continue the conversation, please join our Facebook page and let's start doing funny shit over there too.

Gavin: 7:32

Okay, boomer is my response. But at the same time, yes, we need some. I know Facebook is the it's the largest social media um channel out there. And uh yeah, I I I'm I'm with you entirely, but also, oh my God, we sound so old. You're just silent.

David: 7:49

And no, I'm silent because I I want you to transition to the next topic. And I don't have one.

Gavin: 7:56

Well, guess what? Guess what? I will transition to some other bullshit out there, okay? I just need to throw out, we haven't had so much news in a while. Well, I will say that the Supreme Court is set to make a ruling, a very broad-based ruling on gender-affirming care for trans kids in Idaho. And frankly, it could get scary. Uh, I don't like the idea of the Supreme Court weighing into this, honestly, at a with broad strokes. And they're also it's a it's a complicated situation because the docket for the Supreme Court is so full right now, they don't have time to listen to some individual cases. Or at that, at any rate, they're may able to make some arbitrary choices about individual cases versus painting with broad strokes. And they're considering painting with very broad strokes in Idaho, and that's kind of bullshit. But along the lines of total hypocrisy, also, just recently, and also hilariously, just recently, um uh there was a a ban in Tennessee that was passed that cousins cannot get married. And it was voted against by two Republicans who were basically wanting cousins to be able to get married, as long as they had a thumbs up from some kind of genetic consultant. And you just think, really? Really? This is this is where we're going, huh? This is this is what we're doing.

David: 9:13

Tennessee really trying to Tennessee as hard as they can. You know what I mean? Like that's gonna cut their birth rate in half. You can't let cousins fuck each other.

Gavin: 9:22

Oh well, luckily our listener is not from Tennessee, but uh not speaking of brushing them with broad strokes, but anyway. And then um, I have a I have a what would you do for you, all right? What would you do? So during spring break, my kid I was a chaperone on a group trip. And it was fantastic, and it was very, frankly, academic. We did a civil rights tour of Atlanta and Montgomery and Selma, and it was uh really impactful. And part of the trip was that the kids got to hang out, you know. I wasn't um there were 17 kids and nine adults, and uh I tried to be as hands-off as possible and not helicoptering my kid and not telling her to get off her phone, although I said that constantly, and trying not to tell other kids to get off their phones, although I said that constantly. But it was um the full experience, you know, they they absorbed some history and they got to just hang out with each other and be less parented. And it did make me think, um, gosh, it is really great to see a bunch of kids together on sort of a vacation. And my daughter said to me, I never want to go on vacation with you again. I want to go with friends. And I never vacationed with friends as a kid. It was always this, me and my mom, right? So when it comes down to it, how do we feel about paying for another friend to come on vacation with you to entertain your own kid? I realize your kids are real little. You are not even remotely contemplating this right now, but do you have an opinion?

SPEAKER_03: 10:53

What would you do?

David: 10:56

Gavin, I hate this segment so much because I have to listen to that twice, twice an episode. Um, yeah, again, my kids are forward too, so it's a little hard, but my gut says absolutely not. I'm not paying for your friend to come on vacation with us. However, I do get what she's saying. So, what I would say is I would be more active about being like, hey, friend of my daughter's, she wants to go to this beach resort. Do you guys would like to do a family group trip? Pay like what this is some rich ass bullshit you're pulling here. You're gonna pay my friend to come on vacation with me. I mean, I'm just not that income level.

Gavin: 11:37

The other people should be paying if you're gonna do it, the other parents should be paying for your vacation. You are you're basically. But the fact is, like, it is true that it kind of kills many birds with one stone that the parents get a little break from the kids, and the kids need a break from your parents. And part of me is all sentimental about it. Is that like, I don't want to think that I need help spending quality time with my kids, that they magically actually want to be with me all the time. The fact is, I don't really want to be with them all the time on vacations. Your daughter already hates the sound of your voice. So truly does. Truly does. So I think there there might be a balance to be struck down the line. I don't know. I gotta go contemplate this some more, but um You know what we don't have to contemplate? What? Our top three list. Gate three arcs, top three list, three, two, one. All three of my songs are basically celebrations of music that isn't necessarily what I think you have to listen to to have a full life, but they just make me happy, okay? And if you're at my funeral, I want you to think happy thoughts, all right. And also drink. There'll be a keg at a bar at my own. Absolutely expected that. Yeah. So I want party music. I want you to sing along. Number three for me, Copa Cabana. It's one of the few songs I know every single lyric to, for better or for worse. I just do. Number two, Like a Prayer. Which I think is one of the top five songs of all time, honestly. Number one, rapper's delight. Because I want everybody in the room to go with a hip, hop, a hip, a hippie to the hip, hip, hopping to don't stop, a rock into the bang, bang, boogie say, up, jump, a boogie to the with the rhythm to the boogie di beat. Okay. Scooby De B Bop, we rock, Scooby-Doo. Uh, guess what? America, we love you, where you walk and you roll with a so much soul. You can rock till 101 years old. I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast, but I like hot butter on a breakfast toast. So learn it before I die, okay?

David: 13:36

So, those of you keeping score at home, that's two times art has died in this episode alone. So, oh my god. Okay, so how shall I go? Shall I shall I mean pick up this dead horse and feed it some more if you want? All right, so my three songs, I decided like there's a lot of ways you go with this. My I decided that I would go with like how I best want to represent me as a person and the different sides of me. So every one of these songs is like a different side of who I am. So, in number three, I think it's pretty obvious if you've ever listened to the show before, the legally blonde remix. That's that's gonna hit my gay side, right? That's like, hey guys, remember he was pretty gay. And so we're gonna play the legally blonde remix. In uh uh in second place, we're gonna do juveniles back that ass up. And that's gonna come from a like my hoe uh comedy era, right? Like that's gonna be, you know, uh knock a pussy outcha on the couch, uh, walk it like a dog, yeah, break it off, yeah. So that's number two.

Gavin: 14:38

I'm not the only one embarrassing myself.

David: 14:40

Totally. I killed them too. I also want to see, I I won't be there, but like I want, I want like my friends to see like my conservative family members listen to the lyrics of back that ass up at my funeral. So uh, and number one, this comes from my uh my my uh debaucherous side, Pop Goes the Weasel. I want that to play very slowly with a with a casket that's closed, and I want the anticipation of everyone looking at that casket. And I want it to pause right there and have everyone just the tension is palpable in the room.

Gavin: 15:18

Oh my god. Rather than take the tack of saying you are so demented and fucked up, I just want to say it's times like this that I am so glad to be trapped in this windowless audio with you with no payoff whatsoever, except a lot of laughter.

David: 15:37

Okay, so what is next week's top three list? Next week, our top three list is what are the top three Kool-Aids that you drink? And I don't mean real Kool-Aids. I mean like, what are conspiracy theories or or or things that you know are not real, but man, you just you can't help yourself.

Gavin: 15:53

I don't know how I'm gonna approach this, but I can't wait to think about it four minutes before we start recording next week.

David: 15:59

So, but it's the truest thing you've ever said. Okay, our guest this week is somebody very special. Not only does he have the talent to be one of my favorite TikTokers, but he's also got the brains to be a real life school psychologist. Maybe he can figure out what's wrong with Gavin. Uh, from the great state of Wisconsin, please welcome to the show Nick Fleger.

SPEAKER_03: 16:25

Nick. Oh, thanks. Thanks for that.

David: 16:29

I also very much appreciate you in your email like phonetically spelling out your your last name as like Flea as in flea the scene of the crime and gr is in gr. Did you see what that motherfucker did? Yeah, thank you for spending time with us today. No, thanks for having me. I'm very excited to be here. Yeah. Good. I, you know, you one thing I want to say. Uh this morning I went to kind of re-watch some of your videos and it was like, follow Nick. And I was like, I have been following Nick for literally a decade. What are you talking about? And I noticed this happened with our guest a couple weeks ago, Owen Squires, where I went to his page and I had been following him forever, and it was like I had it had unfollowed him at some point. So I want to tell you, if you see me following you this morning, I have been following you the whole time. I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_00: 17:17

I noticed that that I I did notice that actually. Like, what is going on with the show? So I was like, I don't, yeah, we'll we'll say it's a TikTok issue.

David: 17:26

It is a TikTok issue. It is it is not an ethics issue. But what I wanted to say was you, when I joined TikTok 150,000 years ago, you were legitimately one of, if not the first account I followed, and definitely the first gay dad I ever followed. Um, and then you kind of disappeared for a while. I did. And all of a sudden, you kind of popped back up in my feed, and I went, where the fuck has that motherfucker been? And that's when we reached out to you because I was like, I love this guy. Where has he been? So I'm so glad that you're here, but where were you? Yeah, where'd you go? What where were you?

SPEAKER_00: 18:01

You know, I think it kind of just got to a point where I was like, I mean, I'm I'm not like young, like I'm not like the the teens and the very young adults on the app. Um, so I I think it just got to the point where I was like, I'm I'm 38. What am I doing trying to make stupid videos that you know uh I can't really even come up with good ideas for and everything. So I it just we both my husband and I we both do videos all the time. We both just kind of like naturally kind of got away from it. And then um I don't know, we we started making a little more content recently, not not a ton. Um but yeah, I mean it's been kind of nice. Like, I mean, I like being on there. Uh sometimes you focus a little bit too much on like the follows and the likes and things like that. Um so that part's been nice, just kind of getting a break from that. But I do like doing it.

Gavin: 18:48

What is your mission though when you're doing it? Is it just for your own entertainment or are you trying to send out messages? I assume a psychologist is always gonna be like, uh, playing mind games with people out there.

SPEAKER_00: 18:58

So no, it's just us being idiots, uh things that we think are funny, you know, whether it be actual situations that happened or or just imaginary scenarios. Um yeah, it's it's never planned, it's always just kind of random. Uh especially Ben's, my husband's, uh, if if you have a chance to see his. Uh, he's not like uh, oh, let's film that again type of person. It's one and done. And I'm like, what the hell is that? Like, this doesn't even make any sense. What I don't even get what the punchline was there.

David: 19:30

So um your finger was over the camera the whole time. He's like, it's good. Just let it go.

SPEAKER_00: 19:34

It's fine. They can hear the voices. It's fine.

Gavin: 19:36

Don't sacrifice the good for the perfect. So just move forward. It's fine. I think that's a healthy approach to TikTok.

David: 19:42

Yeah, I think. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, the part of what I like your account, we've had a lot of TikTokers on the show and and kind of social media people in general, but everyone has their own kind of strengths and weaknesses. For me, what I really, really, really, really loved about your account and why I still love it is that there is this beautiful balance. Of like you being funny for whatever reason, but also you being a regular person, like you said, you're not trying to, you know, go crazy. But also that you never like leave behind the fact that you still love your husband and are sexually attracted to him and make fun of him. Like there's a really full view of your life and your relationship in a way where it's not doesn't seem, I mean, it might be a little bit, but it doesn't seem sanitized or divisive at all. It feels very real. You'll be like annoyed. One of my favorites are like when you're by the pool and he's annoying you for some reason, and then you're like, cute. Yeah, I mean, like, right. And then his like he does his like toddler stuff, where he's like, watch me, watch me, watch me. And then he just jumps in the pool and you're like, what the fuck was I watching? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 20:43

Yeah. And I would say, you know, that that's all very, you know, like, of course, to an extent, you know, some of it is played up for the cameras, essentially, you know, but uh the the the base of it is all just real ways that we talk to each other and and act around each other. Um, so yeah, I mean I think that's always kind of the goal, like, you know, try to be authentic while also making it clear, like, hey, this story that we told or this scenario that went on, often it's not a hundred percent accurate, you know, because people often get mad about that.

Gavin: 21:12

As a psychologist, though, do you ever start to go down a rabbit hole of why we did this or should we be doing this or should I be doing more or any of that?

SPEAKER_00: 21:22

Yeah, definitely. I mean, um, you know, well, especially the times where there's been maybe a video where um honestly for me, it can take one comment that is negative to make me think, oh shit, like what did I say wrong? Uh, what did we do wrong? Did I offend a group of people, God forbid? Uh, or is it just people being assholes who, you know, just feel like being assholes, which is 95% of the time, you know, what it is. But yeah, I do feel like you kind of sit and you you stew on it a bit. Even jokes that don't land um or get like misunderstood, but still people think it's funny. I'm like, no, like that's not what it's like. Yeah, that's not the joke. Yeah. Uh so it's funny. Yeah, you do find yourself like just kind of second guessing all that stuff a lot.

David: 22:12

I remember having a video go medium viral, like, I don't know, like maybe a million views on TikTok. And it was just like a silly video of my daughter saying mama and then like showing a picture of you know me and my husband or whatever. And it was like, you know, let's say there's a thousand comments, literally 999 were like, so cute, ha ha, so funny. That's like my daughter, you know, all that kind of shit. And one person said, that poor little girl. And I fucking thought about that faceless troll for weeks. And I hate, I hate that they said that. But but same thing. I want to be like, no, you're the wrong one. I don't know. And what I my personal philosophy is like, I keep those up. I don't delete those kind of comments because I think it's important for people to see that that kind of shit exists. Do you do you do you feel like you're a do you get a lot of pushback on stuff? Especially because a lot of your videos, you're you talk about, you know, your husband's hot, or you like, you know, there's you don't shy away from that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 23:05

For sure. Um, it's not too common. Uh it was like a lot more like earlier on for whatever reason. Um, and of course, you know, it's it's the comments about you know being gay dads, it's the comments about parenting in general, um just uh some really mean-spirited kind of nasty things. Uh so yeah, I mean, I always kind of go back and forth with that too, you know, sometimes just deleting the comments. Uh I always am fighting the urge to respond back and collapse back, absolutely. Yeah, and then I always have to remind myself like it's so pointless, you know, I'm not gonna change their their view, their opinion. Um but yeah, so sometimes I'll just kind of leave them up. A lot of times it's just blocking the person because then I'm like, I don't need this negativity here. And um, but yeah, it's always interesting though, like I can never predict what it is that's going to lead to someone saying something hurtful or mean or or whatever.

David: 24:01

But there's now I I don't I don't I'm not I don't believe in doxing people. However, there is a certain amount of kind of clapping back that I really love on the app when somebody will do that and someone will do a whole video going through their profile photos and being like, it's interesting you got divorced in 2017 and blah blah blah. You know what I mean? Just to be like, you you can't really be anonymous on the internet, especially when it's a really fucked up, hateful attack on a like you on a stranger. Like you don't know this person, they don't know you. They're just mad that gays be visible, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 24:34

It's true, it's so true. Yeah, that's that's what it always like boils down to. Like the the comments about parenting, it always seems to be very heavily implied because we're gay dads, you know. Um, I know one video that I had, very simple. My my son a couple years ago was looking all over the house for us, couldn't find us. The video is just of him saying, Oh, I couldn't find you. And me responding back, well, you found us as I take a drink from a drink. And for whatever reason, that one went, you know, somewhat viral. Um, and so many comments were like, Why do you have kids if you don't love them? Why do you have kids if you don't want to be around them? I was like, Are you fucking serious? This was like a 15-second portion of my day. Right. How on earth are you making that jump? So yeah, it's always funny.

Gavin: 25:17

Well, speaking of judging parenting, though, do you allow your kids on TikTok?

SPEAKER_00: 25:23

Do I allow it? No. Does my 11-year-old uh get around it? 100%. Um, we actually just had to have a conversation with him uh this weekend. He I feel bad about this. He made a YouTube account that I wasn't super aware of. And we got I got some texts from some parents in the neighborhood saying, Hey, uh, your son was recording videos of the kids playing and posted it to YouTube. Uh, our kids are very upset. Please take that down. I was like, fuck. Whoops. So yeah, had to had to address that. I I don't love him being on it by any means, you know, and we've talked about that a lot. Um, I did go through just other things he's posted, and it's always just dumb, dumb things and and whatever. But um, yeah, you know, I especially I work in a high school, right? So like I I have a lot of you know experience with seeing how kids deal with what goes on with social media. Um, and so I I definitely don't want that, you know, for him. I want him to be a kid and have fun.

David: 26:23

Ironically, I saw a TikTok talking about, you know, we maybe overprotect our children in real life and under-protect them online. And I think that's so true. Is it like like for for those of us um Gavin is a decade older than us, but um he's very, very old. Literally, but but literally, but but also but like we when the internet wasn't what it was when we were kids as it is now. So all the stuff like, yeah, your son created a YouTube account and got videos of other kids and they didn't consent, like that's stuff that we have to kind of learn as we're going from the parenting point of view that we didn't go through as kids. Like I had a camcorder and me and my friend would do like really fucked up videos, but like but that that wasn't going online, you know. Right. So that's a whole new world.

Gavin: 27:07

I'm curious, have you ever gotten in trouble? I mean, do you pay play a visible role in a high school with impressionable kids? First of all, do they follow your TikTok? Second of all, have you ever gotten in trouble because of it?

SPEAKER_00: 27:21

Well, that's what got me in trouble was do kids follow me, right? Uh so I I don't know, you know, you get you can't see who's all on there. Um, but yeah, no, there was there was a brief period where some parents uh were very upset when they found my TikToks. Um it turned into like a whole a whole thing. I had to to meet and talk with a a an attorney for our district to see if I broke any rules, which I didn't. Um yeah, it was kind of it was stressful, you know. And again, a lot of it was uh originally posed in a way that made it seem very clear that it was because I was, you know, showing my husband and our kids, and you know, how dare he you were existing publicly and that's disgusting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so uh it was a little stressful for a while. Um there's even a conservative radio host who did a uh show about it. Um but now that's an honor.

David: 28:24

That's an honor, actually. If you can ruffle their feathers, that's an honor.

SPEAKER_00: 28:28

Yeah. Yep. Uh but yeah, I mean it kind of blew over. Uh one of the things that was actually really nice about it though is um there was so many people. So it it had kind of started on like this Facebook group um where someone was posting about me on there. And I was then like overwhelmed with emails from parents who I didn't know at all, just saying, like, hey, we just want you to know, like, we don't we don't care about this, like we think it's great, you know, um, we think you're such an asset to the community and all this stuff. So like it was seriously like uh not even a handful of small voices that were trying, you know, that um and it really just resulted in like just feeling like really good about where I work. So that was that was a good part about it. But yeah, it was a little dicey there for doubt a week.

David: 29:16

So what what kind of stuff are you seeing as a school psychologist? Uh like what is the common kind of thing that you're challenged with?

SPEAKER_00: 29:25

You know, a lot of it, truthfully, it it's a lot of just anxiety for a lot of different reasons, you know. Um just kind of school in general. Um, a lot of times it's just like the peer interactions. Like high school sucks. I would never go back in time to do high school again. I hate it. Um but I really love working like with high school age kids. Uh so I think that like that's definitely like the biggest thing. It's like it's it's really hard. And with this day and age of social media, uh, you know, just Snapchat, things get around so quick and easy. Um I think that it almost seems like so many kids are just like their baseline is elevated, you know. Um and so just what often can be like lesser issues in the grand scheme of things or or whatever that might be, it just seems like so much more difficult for them to kind of cope through that. So that's definitely a big thing. You know, social media and and phones and everything plays such a huge role in the the mindset of kids, good and bad.

Gavin: 30:27

How do you feel about embargoes, like what's going on in Florida, um, banning TikTok or even a movement to, you know, not give smartphones to kids before they're like 16?

SPEAKER_00: 30:37

Right. I I find myself so complicated with that, right? You know, like because again, at a personal level, with my own son, he has a phone. Um, he's 11. Uh and so I I obviously allow that, but then just seeing you know the kids that I'm working with and how that affects them, I would also love to be able to say, like, okay, this is dumb, it's not, it's not bringing good. Um I just I think that they're it I wish that we could help kids understand so much more that what they are seeing, you know, on social media, um, in these apps, it's not real life. You know, again, yeah, my own my own case, my Instagram, I'm not super active on that. It's the pictures that I want people to see, you know, in the situations that I want people to see, same with TikTok, all that kind of stuff. Uh, and so I just wish that kids like really understood that more. Um, but they're just bombarded with it all the time. So yeah, I think it's just such a fine balance.

Gavin: 31:32

But that digital literacy is talked about all the time, right? Like they're cognizant of saying, yes, I know it's not real life, and yet I am really pissed that Brandy got to go to Belize and my life sucks because I didn't go to Belize, like Brandy did.

SPEAKER_00: 31:47

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's there's for whatever reason, there's still just that huge disconnect. Um, they will any kid I talk to will fully realize, like, yeah, I get that that's not like their day-to-day, but it's enough, you know, for them to still sit and stew on it.

David: 32:03

But that's that's a that's a similar issue with I think with like pornography, is right? You watch kids don't understand that when they watch, they think, oh, that's what sex is supposed to look like. Right. They don't realize this is this heightened, you know, this is a movie, this is a TV show. This is these are professional performers who have planned this stuff. This is not what it should look like. And it's at that age, it's so hard to understand that those are two different things.

Gavin: 32:25

Um ultimately you have no advice for parents dealing with you don't have any insider magical wand that you can give to all of us to say this is how you deal with it. This is why gays shouldn't have kids. You don't have your magic fixed.

SPEAKER_00: 32:39

I mean, oh my god. Uh I know, I know. Uh I do think, you know, the biggest thing, truthfully, and and I I often fail at this too, though, but it it really is like you have to try to be as involved as you can, you know, in their lives, including in their their social media lives. Um you know, having those conversations just about like safe internet usage and uh uh you know, kind of what they're seeing on social media, those sorts of things. And as much as you can too, trying to to minimize, you know, how much time is spent on that, which feels like a losing battle, you know. I mean, it's like that's just what our society kind of is now.

David: 33:17

Um and how to sort through it all, right? Critical thinking and judgment and stuff, which were again, we our generation was just lucky enough to watch the internet kind of become what it is, so we can very easily spot the email phishing scam or the the meme that's not true or whatever. But for kids, we're like, this is just the arbiter of like they it's it critical thinking is probably a difficult skill to teach at this age.

SPEAKER_00: 33:39

For sure. Absolutely. Yeah, and I you do see that so much too, where it's like uh even if you ever like read through comments on on you know TikTok and stuff too, things that are very clearly like, oh, that was totally like a dumb skit, like four views, and like the comments are like, I can't believe you did that, you know, blah blah blah. Like, okay, that's you know, they're they're lacking that understanding that that is I mean, the acting in it is terrible most of the time too. Like, but they still just don't understand like that that's not a real situation.

David: 34:07

So let's go back a little bit. So sure. So tell me, how did you meet your husband? And also how did you guys become a family? How did you quote unquote get your kids unless you stole them from a park? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:19

Uh well, so how we met, this makes me feel old. Uh, it was on MySpace. Um, Boomer. Uh I know. It was so funny. Yeah. Um the interesting thing about it is that uh okay, so like we live in Wisconsin, small town and everything too. Um, and so I was on there just, you know, I come out recently. It was my freshman year of college. Uh, so I was just trying to meet new people. Um and I had originally met my husband's stepbrother, uh, who's also gay. And you know, we were kind of talking and whatever first. Um, turns out he lied about his name and his age. Uh and so when I figured that out, I was like, okay, nope, never mind. Uh, and so that was Ben's then kind of like pickup line swoop in was like, oh hey, you know, you know my my brother so and so. Speaking of porn, hey, my stepbrother this.

David: 35:18

It's like, hello, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 35:20

Yeah. Uh yeah. It was pretty funny. So then uh yeah, no, I mean that was that was kind of it. We, you know, uh we had we had friends who knew each other, like we weren't in the same, you know, group, uh, but friends who knew each other. Um, so I was like, okay, he's not like a serial killer, like it'll be safe for me to beat him. Um yeah, I don't, yeah, true. I like that growth mindset. Um so yeah, no, he he we we decided to go out. We went mini-golfing, went to cold stone, got some ice cream.

David: 35:51

Um wait, did you have a like it, love it, or gotta have it?

SPEAKER_00: 35:55

I okay, I was not like fully in the cold stone culture at that point. I think I probably just got like a like it of just chocolate, just plain chocolate ice cream. Fucking idiot. I know.

David: 36:08

Then why are you even there? Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00: 36:10

He he taught me the errors of my ways. So uh like no mixins or anything? No, I was really dumb. I didn't understand. He's like, what it was.

Gavin: 36:17

You should get a divorce. Do they bother with the cold stone when it's just like a scoop of chocolate? Like, who cares? I know, right? Yeah, they're like basic bitch on two.

SPEAKER_00: 36:28

Uh truthful, yeah. Uh I've learned, I've learned now, you know. Uh, but yeah, uh yeah, we've we've honestly been together ever since. Um, so that was almost 19 years ago. 19 years in in August. It'll be dang.

Gavin: 36:41

That's great.

SPEAKER_00: 36:42

Congratulations. That's a long time. Yes, thank you. Uh, and so yeah, so our kids, we they're both adapted, beautiful, beautiful boys. Um, our oldest, he's 11. Uh so gosh, he was born right before I turned 27. So, you know, that was 26.

Gavin: 36:59

Wow, you were young. I know.

SPEAKER_00: 37:01

New parents, new gay parents, very babies having babies. Yeah, I know. Yes, we were very lucky with that, truthfully. Like it looking back, it's like, how the hell like we were babies, yeah. How were we? How did it happen?

David: 37:13

Well, tell us a little bit about the story and how you adopted first kid.

SPEAKER_00: 37:16

Um, we we both knew like, you know, we wanted to have a family. Um, we had considered like fostering and and doing all that stuff. Um, and at the time we lived in a in a much smaller town than even what we live in now. And we had talked to a social worker with the county that we lived in, and she was like, I'm just gonna be honest with you guys, no one's ever gonna place a kid with with two gay dads, so just don't even bother. Wow, and that pissed us off so much. We're like, well, fuck you. Like, yeah, yeah, we will. We're gonna have kids. Um, so we started see, you know, seeking out like private adoption agencies, found a great agency in Wisconsin who um uh you know has always worked with same-sex couples too. Um, because a lot of the adoption agencies, especially around here, are are faith-based, you know, so like they wouldn't necessarily work with us. Um so yeah, we we kind of got jumped right into it, you know, signed on and uh did all of our parenting classes, created our little profile, and uh at the time we were actually really lucky to um they only worked with like 10 families at a time, essentially. So we were like on the waiting list. Uh but our oldest son, his birth mom, didn't really connect with any of those 10. So she asked if there was anyone else. We had happened to just turn in our profile right before that. Um, so she wanted to meet us and picked us right there, and it was pretty awesome. Um, yeah, that was it was very cool.

David: 38:47

That's awesome. That's gay privilege, by the way. That's gay privilege right there. You cut the fucking line. Those 10 people were like, Are you kidding me? But you cut the line.

SPEAKER_00: 38:55

Well, I truthfully though, like we did, we did feel guilty to an extent though, too. Because it's like you part of the whole adoption journey, too. Like when you're with an agency like that, you see on their website all the time, like, here's the waiting families, and you can read about each person. And like, I always it's my heart breaks for the people that are on there for forever, you know. It's like you just feel so bad because it's like everyone is on there because they just want to have a family so desperately. So it's sad, you know, when it's not working out that way, but also it's like, I'm gonna take mine. Yeah, yeah. And then our second son, he was a total different story. We got a call, like, hey, this baby was born. Uh, you know, we quick showed some profiles, they're interested in meeting you. What do you think? We're like, uh, yeah, sure. And Matt, next day we were picking up a week old baby. Wow.

Gavin: 39:44

Yeah, that was you've been lucky, that's for sure.

David: 39:48

Yes, yep. That's great. Definitely. And how did it feel after having one kid? How old was your first when you had your second? He was uh two years, two months, and two weeks old at that point. That is literally almost. Almost the exact distance of my two kids. So how how did it feel to have two kids? Yeah. Like when did you feel overwhelmed? Were you just like, oh, this is just throw another one in the pile?

SPEAKER_00: 40:09

No, it was very overwhelming. Um, again, you know, you just didn't have the time to like mentally prepare fully. Um and yeah, you know, you you go from a family of three to a to a family of four. We had also uh the day after we brought him home, we were finalizing the plans for the house that we were building. So like we had a meeting with the builders, all that stuff. Um, so when he was like two months old, we were living in an apartment, you know, like a two-bedroom apartment. He slept in a pack and play, uh, you know, in our room. Um he he our first son was just like this tank at birth. Um, and he slept really well through the night, like from the beginning. And then our our second was just this little teeny tiny peanut. And uh I I had to wake him up every two hours to feed him. Um so it was just it was tough. It was a brutal couple months in the beginning there, just adjusting to all that.

Gavin: 41:09

Now, as a psychologist, had you devoured all sorts of parenting psychology books, and frankly, are you superior to all the rest of us because you're so you know gifted in the brainiac realm? No.

SPEAKER_00: 41:22

No, I don't think I no, I didn't we didn't read, you know, we took our little parenting classes that we had to take, but um, you know, that was it. Like one of the funniest things to me was realizing how, like, oh, maybe we don't exactly know how to be parents with our oldest son. We in the hospital, you know, we they have us in our own little room afterwards, which was great. And we're like, oh, he's he's gotta eat. And then we're like, How how much do you feed a newborn? So my husband takes out a regular, you know, full big bottle and makes like a full eight-ounce bottle. All right. Thank God the nurse walked in and she's like, Oh, honey, no, no, no, no. Oh no, honey. Oh gosh. Oh no, not here, oh gosh. Uh yeah. So um, no, yeah. I mean, it always just feels like you're just figuring it out as you go.

Gavin: 42:13

Totally. Well, uh, what about shitstorms of times that you thought, Jesus take the wheel? I have no idea what I'm doing, all of my degrees, and oh my god, my kid is, I have no control here.

SPEAKER_00: 42:24

I feel like that's almost every day. You know, they still they just keep you on your toes, just random things that come up. Uh my sons, they liked painting their nails for a while because I was, you know, painting my nails, and the bus driver made a comment about, you know, boys shouldn't be painting their nails. Again, my initial response was like, Well, fuck him. Like, yeah, we're gonna talk about this. And then I settled down. Well, actually, Ben settled me down, which is usually it's the opposite. Um, but you know, just try to work through that. Like, okay, you know, you don't need to care about what other people think. He's an old man, you know, whatever. You don't need to worry what he thinks about you, you do what you want to do. Uh, but yeah, it just feels like there's always, you know, almost every day there's some new new thing that you have to try to figure out.

David: 43:06

When do you think you earned your parenting stripes? Like, when do you think you were like, oh, okay, I've been shit on officially too many times to like well, I always remember that you know, when he was a a day old and he pooped right in my hand.

SPEAKER_00: 43:21

Um I didn't have a diaper ready.

David: 43:25

Like you were like you were waiting for the communion wafer and instead it was just an infant shit. Yeah. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00: 43:31

And I just remember looking back at that too being like, oh, that was so cute. Um but no, I mean, oh god, so it's always back to my oldness. You know, he he when he was just under a year old, uh he had just really big adenoids and and his tonsils were kind of enlarged too. And so um he would often throw up like after eating, um, or if he like would cough like too hard, he would throw up. And so I had to bring him to the ENT. It's just he and I, we it was like an hour away. Um, and so they wanted to scope, you know, his nose. And so to do that, they wanted him to first like drink from the bottle so that as he's swallowing, they can kind of scope it in. He obviously threw up everywhere, and it was all on me because I'm holding him, you know. So, like as a parent, you always you have your diaper bag, I have change of clothes for him. I didn't have a change of clothes for myself, so I had to sit through the rest of this appointment covered in his vomit and then drive the hour home covered in vomit. Like that was the point where I was like, from now on, I I'm gonna I have to have a go bag for myself, you know. Like it was horrible.

David: 44:46

It was oh, just that smell and and the feel was and it only gets worse as it like ferments in the air, yeah. Right? Like once you've been puked on, the initial smell is bad, but like as it just like lingers, I I also would have accepted you threw your clothes in the trash and you walked out of that doctor's appointment shirtless and made a TikTok about it. Yeah, there you go.

Gavin: 45:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 45:08

I mean, it was everywhere though. It was shirt by shorts, everything. Like, oh god, it was so bad. It was terrible.

David: 45:14

And then those are the moments where like somebody swoops in and hands you a little parenting badge, and you're like, You got this one, you know, like a little Girl Scout sash. We should start making those. We should make HR's branded Girl Scout sashes, and then you get one for, you know, get vomited on, you know, get told I hate you and I don't love you, or you know, it's a great bookbox.

Gavin: 45:31

We'll put it on our website along with our show notes anytime soon.

David: 45:34

Oh my god. I love it. I I love that too. I I think we can make tons of money on that. So yeah, you're from Wisconsin. Uh, you we talked a little bit in the pre-interview where uh I work in Wisconsin once a year and I love it, love it, love it. Let's talk about cheese curds. Because I cheese curds, for those of you who don't know, are just it's just cheese. It's just pieces of cheese. But there is a thing called squeaky cheese curds. Can you please explain to everyone what this is? Because I thought the people I work with would tell me about this, and I literally thought, like, this is a joke. All Wisconsin people play on non-Wiscons people. Yep. And then I realized it's it's true. Tell us about it. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's chunks of cheese.

SPEAKER_00: 46:14

Um and which is good. Cheese, you there's no wrong way to eat it. Um, I don't know what they do to it. I I don't think really anything. It's just I don't know. Um, but when you when you bite it, it it's it literally it makes like a squeak kind of a sound. Like um, like almost, I guess imagine like string cheese, but just not not stringy. Yeah. Um and yeah, it's just it makes this little squeak on your teeth.

Gavin: 46:44

David, are you telling me that in your preparation for this interview, you didn't go down an ASMR rabbit hole on TikTok. I people making squeaky noises.

David: 46:54

I what when they kept telling me, have you ever have you had the squeaky curds yet? And I'm like, what are you talking about, squeaky curds? And they're like, Yeah, let's go get you some squeaky curds, which means fresh, by the way. Fresh curds are squeaky curds. But when when when Nick says they squeak in your mouth, he's not like this, it's not just like a light little squeak. It sounds like a mouse is in your mouth.

SPEAKER_03: 47:15

It goes, squeak, squeak.

David: 47:17

And it is the weirdest fucking thing. And how we're good, right? Yeah, yeah. It's delicious. It's just it's just delicious cheese that squeaks in your mouth. And it's just a very, very strange thing.

Gavin: 47:29

But David, you are so accustomed to so many things making plenty of noises in your mouth, and thank goodness for the squeaky cheeses as well.

David: 47:37

Amen. So, Gavin, do you want to like fangirl with him about running and stuff? Or can we end this interview?

Gavin: 47:44

I I mean, I definitely, as a as a recovering runner who has no desire to run anymore, I do have to say, running is awful. You'll see on the other side. Yeah. What are you running away from?

SPEAKER_00: 47:59

You know, I guess, okay, so running, honestly.

Gavin: 48:05

Okay, here's the thing. He just the okay and the screen right together. Uh-huh.

David: 48:10

It's beautiful. We've never had a more charming accent.

Gavin: 48:12

It's so charming.

SPEAKER_00: 48:14

I I always love when people point it out too, because obviously we don't notice it. And then I'll probably listen to this and be like, oh god, that sounds horrible.

Gavin: 48:21

Um and our impersonation of it is of course insulting and terrible. But luckily, no, no, I love it. We only have one listener in um in Wisconsin anyway. Hopefully, Ben, your husband. But anyway, yeah, there you go. What are you back to what are you running away from, Nick?

SPEAKER_00: 48:36

You know, nothing. So running is the only thing I I did not really get into running until uh like I was 30. And it was because Ben, who runs all the time, it's disgusting, he wanted to do a marathon. And I was like, yeah, fine, sign me up. I had before that I I would run occasionally, like maybe four miles, you know, every now and then. Um what I really I ended up like I liked, like every time, every yeah, I did this whole training program, and every week that I ran a further distance, I was like, oh my god, I can't believe I just did that, you know. Um, so that was awesome. And then it kind of got to the point where it's like, well, like that's the easiest way to burn the most amount of calories. And so that's honestly, that's like the only reason that I run. I hate it like the whole time I'm running, I'm like, this is horrible. But then I can eat more squeaky cheese curds.

Gavin: 49:28

Yeah, squeaky cheeses and and plenty of Wisconsin beer. And then you just run it off. So yep, exactly.

David: 49:35

Um, well, Nick, thank you so much for coming by. We love you. I love you. I'm sorry I followed you again this morning. I swear I followed you. But I know. But for those of you out there, please follow him. He's at Psych P-S-Y-C-H. It's Nick, which is a really great handle. Psych, it's Nick on TikTok and Instagram. Thank you so much for coming by.

SPEAKER_00: 49:54

Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

David: 49:57

So, my something great is my daughter is two, and she's just kind of hitting that stride of becoming more of a real person who like thinks and and has ideas and plays imaginary. She's one of the things that she's doing lately, which is very sweet, is when she like will ask me a question or want to know something from me, she'll turn her whole body towards me and look me right in the eyes. Like, Daddy, can I have more, you know, whatever? And there's just something about that like eye to eye, she's just unfazed and looking right into my soul that is just, I don't know. I just thought this week, I was like, this is gonna be my something great. I just loved it.

Gavin: 50:30

So my kid got a haircut yesterday and my son, and he has not been a vain kid at all. He does, he, you know, dresses like he dr he definitely dresses in a way that he doesn't care what he looks like. But he does have a haircut now that is definitely a trendy haircut, and he has discovered a blow dryer, and he's in fifth grade. And there is something he is so subversively paying attention to his looks, which I hope is never an obsession, but I just find it something great. Like, man, he's growing up a little bit and he's taken pride in himself, and it's uh it's a it's a fun thing to watch from a distance, you know. Yeah, and uh that's our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

David: 51:26

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast on the internet. David is at DavidFM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on nothing.

Gavin: 51:35

Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcast. And remember to join that Facebook group, okay boomer, that David was talking about at the beginning of the episode.

David: 51:44

Thanks, and we'll squeak with you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.