The one with Megan Hall-Greenberg

This week, we dive deep into David's annoyance over OPK's, as well as OKP's, we rank the top three Kool Aid's we drink, and we are joined by Surrogacy hall of famer Megan Hall-Greenberg who tells us how she runs 3,106 businesses while also being a Mom, as well as how her last surrogacy journey was one in a million.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

Gavin: 0:00

There you are. You're back.

David: 0:01

Did I did I go away? Oh, I said a really funny joke, too. Um I promised you. You'll just have to believe me. Um and this is Gatriarchs. Okay, so I went to the park with friends of the show, Rob and Carl and their son. Oh yeah. Um, and we were having fun, and I was reminded of something that I want to double down on.

Gavin: 0:34

Okay.

David: 0:35

I don't like OPKs. We've talked about this, right? I don't like other people's kids. I don't care how cute they are. I don't care what they're doing. They annoy me by just existing. Okay. I'm not, that doesn't include like people I love. Um, but I, you know, people kids should exist. But what I learned this weekend at the park was I also hate OKPs. I hate other kids' parents more than other people's kids. Because I was at the park and we were, you know, every we had our bags or whatever, and I'm sitting there having a snack with my daughter, and she's eating goldfish out of a bag. And this girl walks up and she goes, I want some. And I said, Oh she was like eight, seven, older. I said, Oh, well, then you should ask your parents to get you some. Like, I was being shady already. Yeah, you were. She was like, Well, look right there. I said, Yeah, she's eating her goldfish. She's like, Do you have any more? I'm like, Am I being asked for a dollar by a homeless person in Manhattan? What is happening? And I said, No, that's all I have. And then she goes, Well, can I have the rest of hers? Bitch, no, you can't. You can't. And in fact, you can go fuck yourself because what are we doing here? And also, where are your parents? And what is going on? And so this girl's parent comes over and she's like, Oh, is she bothering you? And of course, I'm like, no, she's just fish. And then she starts, and then in front of her parent, she starts going through our bags. Wow. And I look at the parent kind of being like, because I'm not gonna go, hey, bitch, get your hands out of my bags, but I'm also looking at the parent because like if that was my kid, my kids deal shit all the time. I'm like, hey, like, honey, this is not Iris or whatever. She just stands there and watches her daughter pick through this bag. And I'm like, what is happening here? What is happening here? So I was like, hey, can I get you something? Anyway, I like led our way out of it, but I I'm just doubling down. I don't like other people's kids and I don't like other kids' parents. So basically, everybody who exists in the world, get the fuck away from me.

Gavin: 2:48

Yeah, you're I mean, you are so many levels of cranky t-shirts with cats on it that say, I'm not a morning person and today's not your day, or you know, some shit like that about like basically I only like two things in the world, myself and my cat, kind of thing. I mean, you are several levels of get off my lawn right here. But you are so right. And it's never all ultimately the kids that we don't like, which is of course all of the others, uh-huh, it's not their fault that they're assholes. It's absolutely the parents' fault.

David: 3:19

Well, usually. I mean, my kid steals now. Did I tell you this? He's stealing now. Okay. He's like stealing, he's like stealing my teacher's like or his teacher's stuff. He at swim class, I saw him grab the bracelet of his swim teacher and put it in his hands. I'm my kid is actively committing. He's a kleptomaniac. He's actively committing crimes. But the second I see it, I'm like running down there, I'm like, this is not what we do, right? So maybe it's the kids, maybe it's the parents, but it doesn't matter. I want to do that.

Gavin: 3:47

Well, you said you made however, you made your kid stop and you are teaching him that he cannot do this. He cannot rifle through somebody else's bag and he's in front of them.

David: 3:57

But they said you can't have any more goldfish.

Gavin: 3:59

He cannot steal jewelry off of somebody's wrists. That's that is some Oliver level shit right there, though, like artful dodger. Um, you know, as a complete aside, you in your mind telling yourself, um, hey, go fuck yourself, kid. It reminds me of a story that I know about a very good friend of mine who I don't think listens to the pod, and he definitely should. He was a Santa Claus, a neighborhood Santa Claus one time on a fire truck. This is a super New York story where our local fire truck, you know, they needed a local volunteer and they needed somebody to dress up as Santa and they would go around the block and they would show up. And he said that it was a raucous affair, and all of this firemen were just like uh they were having a great time and just very, very raucous, right? And they were going back and forth with all of the F-bombs and just like, you know, living their best lives as we're the heroes who would get to ride in with Santa Claus. And my friend steps out of the cab of the fire truck and he hears a kid go, look at Santa Claus. And the fireman goes, Hey kid, go fuck yourself. As Santa Claus steps out and realized that it's his child who had just said, Hey, look at Santa Claus. And uh and he said he wasn't even ho-ho-ho ing at that point, it was just straight on gaffas. So telling kids to go fuck themselves is also hilarious, frankly.

SPEAKER_04: 5:21

So yeah, that's a good story.

Gavin: 5:23

So I spent a lot of time. Um, in our last episode, I was telling you about how recently I was a chaperone on a spring break trip. And it was fascinating because, in one regard, I was trying to stay as hands-off with my own kids as possible because part of the trip was the fact that they got to be more independent, right? But it was so fascinating to watch other kids behaving either with their kids or with their parents or without, mostly without. And um, and the level of parenting that I wanted to do that was mainly just me saying, get off my lawn, which was mainly them getting off their phones, and um the rampant use of cell phones, and you just want to be like, kids, come on, you're sitting next to each other, but you're on a vacation without your parents and you're in another state. And oh my gosh, it was another level of um me trying to micromanage absolutely every aspect of my life, including other people's lives. But I don't think there's much to be said there except that phones, man, phones, phones. Have you thought about when you're gonna let your kids have phones?

David: 6:21

Because it's a thing, dude. You know, last episode you made fun of me for being a boomer for trying to set up our Facebook group. And you just went on an eight-minute rant about kids be looking at their phones.

Gavin: 6:33

I mean, it is so frustrating, but uh, but nevertheless, I don't know.

David: 6:39

I I I I'm so far away from that, luckily, which I know will come sooner than I'm than I'm ready for. Um, but I I don't know. We've talked with a lot of guests recently who've talked about, you know, I think last week with Nick. Yeah. Where we're when do you give your kid a phone? How much can you access it? Yeah. Um, so I'm just going to, like most of my health concerns, just ignore them until they become a bigger problem.

Gavin: 6:59

Hey, I've got some gay news for you, all right?

David: 7:01

Ooh.

Gavin: 7:02

First of all, do you what does the word bundish dog mean to you?

David: 7:05

It sounds like a sex position in Berlin, but I'm actually not sure.

Gavin: 7:10

Well, I it is basically a sex position in Berlin. It's the lower house of government in Germany, like their House of Representatives. And they have recently uh made it, they passed a law recently that makes it easier for people to change their names, their pronouns, and their gender identity. So, like a little good news and being like, hey, you know what, let's just let people live, right? And um, our guest a couple of weeks ago, Carl with a K, was talking about how the Germans they are just so live and let live. And uh I find it uh it's a little bit of news from the Bundestag. But meanwhile, news from Florida, Dave.

David: 7:45

Oh, I'm sorry.

Gavin: 7:46

So as I was going through some news, I the headline was basically Matt Gates uh nude selfies. And I'm like, well, I want to see that because the dude has great hair, and uh I'm kind of curious, right? Well, no, they it was just a teaser because that scumbag is finally probably going to be taken to task for sharing selfies of women that he's been with, maybe men too, but like sharing the selfies. Like, what a scumbag! And he definitely needs to go down for that. If he's done it, I mean, you know, innocent till proven guilty.

David: 8:18

I guarantee you Matt Gates' dick is medium to small, but with way too much hair. Do you know what I mean? That the cock to hair ratio is off on him. I could smell it a mile away.

Gavin: 8:32

Then finally, though, my favorite story of the week is that um there's a song, a pro-war Russian song, that gay trolls have turned into a gay anthem. Of course we did it. Of course we did it. We're gonna take it. We're gonna take this and and double down and make it way better and way gayer and take away your pro-war bullshit. So I think as a play out music, we'll need to find a way to actually stream that song as a new gay anthem because war sucks and uh Vladimir Putin sucks, but gay anthems rule.

David: 9:08

So I I love how gays gays will turn anything into a dance hit. I think that's so fucking clever. I love that. Uh, you know what isn't very clever?

Gavin: 9:17

What is not very clever, David?

David: 9:19

Our top three list. Gay three arcs, top three list, three, two, one.

Gavin: 9:24

I think this is very clever. I'm excited. Tell us about it, David.

David: 9:27

So, our top three lists this week are the top three Kool-Aids that you drink. And by Kool-Aids, I mean, I don't know, conspiracy theories. Is it goop? Like, what are the things that you're like, this is stupid, but God, I just can't help myself. Um, all right, so I'll start. Uh, number three for me, supplements. I love a protein drink. I love a magnesium pill, I love a vitamin C. I love an emergency. I have we have two baskets in our kitchen full of supplements that I never take. But I can't help myself. I see a TikTok. But I forgot them. Yeah, I forget, but I'll see a TikTok that says, if you take magnesium, you'll lose 20 pounds. And I'm like, boom, I am at CVS immediately. So, number three, supplements. Uh, number two for me, Costco slash buying in bulk. Oh man, do I love a bulk buy? If it's like you can get a second one for a little bit less, I'm buying 10. I will I our basement, you can't see this is my quote unquote recording studio, but in the other room is literally just Costco storage. It's wild. Um number one, the top Kool-Aid that I drink, aliens. Aliens.

Gavin: 10:34

That is not Kool-Aid, though. That has got to be true.

David: 10:36

Well, do you mean like Well, welcome to the fold, my friend.

Gavin: 10:39

Here's your Kool-Aid because you mean little green men walking around with eyeballs and mouths and all of it.

David: 10:44

You know, like Ancient Aliens. Do you know Ancient Aliens? That show is just chaos, and I love it. I fucking love it. So, yep, number one, aliens. What about free?

Gavin: 10:54

I want to believe in it too. I want to believe in it too. But here's the three three things that I believe in um that come to mind. Number three for me, AOC. I want Alexandra. Is she a Kool-Aid? I guess she's a Kool-Aid, you're right. She's a Kool Aid. I have definitely I've drunk an awful lot of that Kool-Aid, and I think she's a badass, and she's so brave, and I want to believe that she's the real deal. And so I feel like that's kind of a Kool-Aid that I have drunk. Yep. Number two, recycling. I am so afraid. I'm so afraid it just goes to a landfill, but I am really devoted to it, really devoted to it. But very good environmental friends of mine, actually, a cousin who's the smartest person I know, is like, yeah, it doesn't matter. So and he's a super environmentalist, and he's like, Yeah, I just don't even bother anymore. And I'm like, you don't bother recycling? God, I hope it's not a Kool-Aid, but sometimes I wonder, is it a Kool-Aid? Number one for me? Not my kids.

David: 11:52

That is perfect number one. Not my kids. I'll leave it at that. Yeah, you need you don't need to explain it. That is so fucking good. All right, what do we got next week? Next week, I want to hear about more about you, David.

Gavin: 12:05

I want to hear about your three most annoying traits from your husband.

David: 12:11

He's gonna love this question. Our guest this week is a mother of three children, one born through IVF and has been a gestational surrogate for not one, not two, but three families. She's also the founder of Surro Connections on the men having babies bored and all-around overachiever. Please welcome to the show, Megan Hall Greenberg.

Gavin: 12:35

Hi, Megan. Thank you for making us feel like lazy shits, Megan.

SPEAKER_03: 12:40

Well, I don't know about overachiever right now. I'm that tired mom business owner. That's my look lately.

David: 12:46

So But that's what I mean is like that you you not only founded Sorrow Connections, which is one of the biggest agencies in the country, but also you're on all these boards, you have children, you're doing surrogacy. Like, what what the fuck? What like and a husband.

SPEAKER_03: 13:02

So I think does that count as a fourth child? Oh, yes.

David: 13:05

No, that's a that's a second full-time job for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 13:07

Okay, well, well, there you go. I just got my hair colored a couple days ago because it was almost gray, and I was like, that's enough. I'm that's ready to go to Berlin. Can't look like this.

Gavin: 13:18

This is gonna keep me fueled, is my uh my my totally natural meant-to-be hair color. So, what does fuel you though? I mean, you uh you live a life of passion. What does fuel you?

SPEAKER_03: 13:32

Right. Well, I actually own a couple of businesses, and then my husband has a business, so we're like really spread thin on top of kids and life, and you know, actually.

David: 13:42

I bet tax time is chaos at your house.

SPEAKER_03: 13:44

I just keep handing it over to the CPA. It's it's just crazy chaos all the time. And now we go into speaking season, and my kids compete in this their world championship cheerleading things. So I'm and then I have to go to Berlin for 48 hours. So the next few weeks are gonna be a little bit crazier than usual, and I'm excited, but I'm gonna be tired.

Gavin: 14:09

But I imagine these are all things that you choose to do because they make your life full.

SPEAKER_03: 14:17

For sure. I think there's a balance though, right? So sometimes I don't choose to get calls in the middle of the night, or I don't choose to deal with really angry, frustrated, sad intended parents, or angry surrogates, or hormonal surrogates, or a staff issue. Like there's lots of facets that you have. And, you know, under my purview, if you think about it between, you know, my husband's shop and my other business and surrogates and intended parents, that's like maybe four or five hundred people at a time kind of relying on me to answer my phone and text messages at all hours of the day worldwide. So I I think I've just lived in this hopped up caffeine world until about 3:30 or 4. And then depending on the night, I either go to bed at six or my husband makes the best lemon drop mint martinis and we play Yahtzee.

David: 15:09

So nice.

SPEAKER_03: 15:10

I just balance.

David: 15:12

I mean, that that's basically sex in your 40s is a lemon drop martini and Yahtzee, if I'm being totally honest.

SPEAKER_03: 15:18

You know what? It is, it actually affects our marriage together. So yeah.

David: 15:23

And I bet those like middle of the night calls are those texts aren't like, hey, just want to check in and say, you're doing a bang up job. Night. Like, that's not the texts and calls you're getting. You're getting panicked emotional calls, right?

SPEAKER_03: 15:35

Right. Or, you know, my staff in Europe are getting intended parents screaming at them and they're WhatsApping me to be like, I need help, and I'll have to get up and go answer an email like on a computer where I have to think about it. Um, but or there it's the bad calls. A lot of things happen that are bad in our industry at night, whether it's birth or something, some complication. So, you know, I'm involved in a lot of that stuff to kind of because I've been doing this for so long. I think that's also like I'm on autopilot, right? After 14, almost 14 years, and I've been helping for helping for about a year before that, like just people before I started my business. But 14 years is a long time, you know, and I'm only 29. So it's so weird.

David: 16:18

You're barely, you're not even in your 30s yet, which is just wonderful.

Gavin: 16:21

It's really a it's it's in unjust that you've gotten gray hairs that you have to color over at only 29, but you're making it work for sure.

David: 16:28

Amen. Yeah.

Gavin: 16:29

Now wait a minute. You also one of your other business is is cheerleading, right? I mean, as a cheerleading, uh, I mean, taking kids to international competitions, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:38

Um, not international. The most international we get from the West Coast is uh for cheerleading anyway, is Florida. That's our like we're listening I I grew up there.

David: 16:48

Florida is another planet. Like that's like interplanetary. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:52

Yeah. And every year we have to go and spend two weeks there between my little one is in the youth summit, and then the all my other kids. I have another child, but she only cheers for two days. But my my gym is there for a week competing. So I want to make sure I'm there for my athletes and my parents and my coaches and and all that. So that's two weeks out of my life. And then I have to go to Berlin uh on a Thursday afternoon, and I come back on Sunday morning. So for men having babies.

Gavin: 17:22

I'm just gonna say that isn't of course, that isn't just for pleasure, but there will be some pleasure there, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03: 17:28

Yeah, if I'm I I think it'll just be a zombie for 48 hours. I've kind of resolved to that in my mind, and I'll live off of lemon drops and coffee.

Gavin: 17:38

As we're born over your overachieverness, too. I do have to ask, you have to have an inordinate amount of patience on the surrogacy surrogacy side. How do you keep your patience?

SPEAKER_03: 17:49

I I don't know if it's patience, right? I think it's experience, to be honest. And I'm really authentic. So a lot of people say in my world is you either really love Megan or you really freaking hate her.

David: 18:02

And we haven't decided yet. We will decide at the end of this episode which one of those we choose. So I did on that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 18:08

Perfect. It's okay. You're gonna love me though. Um, but it's but it's because I tell the truth. And some people in this surrogacy world want it's not all rainbows and unicorns. The people that love me are the ones that will come to me and say, This happened. I need your honest. Are we doing something wrong? Is she doing something wrong? What is the right thing? And I'll always tell them what is the right thing and how I see it, right? Not only am I a surrogate, I've been doing this for 14 years, I've kind of seen almost everything. I I learned something new probably every day, but um, I see a lot. A lot, I've experienced a lot of unfortunate and situations and really amazing situations, right? So I think it's um again, it you either love me or hate me, and I'm okay with that. The ones that also aren't authentic to themselves starting this process, that they aren't, they actually don't know what they want. They know they want babies, but how do you get there? Um, and I just tell them the hard truth, like it's gonna cost, there's variables, like there's experiences that we don't we don't see normally. Like, is it embryos? What clinic are you using? You know, I tell people our experience, I don't tell them where to go, I give them lots of choices. What is our experience with attorneys and clinics and specific doctors at those clinics? What is our experience? Are they great on communication? What's their donor database? Like, I give them lots and lots of choices, but I'm very honest and transparent with them.

David: 19:42

So, uh for those, for those of the listener out there who don't really know what a surrogacy agency does, can you give us the quick like cliffs notes, top line of like what an agency does in the surrogacy journey?

SPEAKER_03: 19:56

Sure. So I'm gonna talk about what our agency does because. A lot of agencies will get to the point to get you pregnant, get you through the process. So your surrogate is pregnant, and then they just drop off. And then you're kind of like floundering, and you have to pay thousands more than our agency, right? Where we really help you from, even if you're not with our agency from the beginning at a men having babies conference, you're two years out, let's say in planning, you want to know what kind of budget, what is the trends in the industry, and then talk to us what about the clinic we choose? Like we should be an educational resource, whether it's intended parents, I don't say the industry because everybody does things so differently, and then also surrogates. We want to make sure they're educated on the process, um, the financial side as well as the emotional, mental, physical side of what you're about to go through, because there's so many facets, right? And sometimes I like I have an intended mom going through it right now, and it's just like she calls and cries just because she's so she's already done egg retrieval and everything. She's just like, this process is so daunting. And if I didn't have you, I don't know what I would do. And these are middle of the night WhatsApps from you know Australia, but yeah, it's um it's really we help from the very that very beginning, all the way through matching legal process, the clinical um side. We have a nurse on staff that walks with your surrogate and you guys to kind of I call it, can you make it down? Like I don't understand this legal or this medical jargon nonsense, and nor does intended parents. So she will put in, you know, Megan, Megan it down and and uh explain it. Um, and then um all the way through transfers and you know, we send out little gifts and little personalized things. We're there for surrogates. We have an internal support system for your surrogate, um, internal support system for your IPs. So other IPs we can introduce them and have like mentors, right? And then all the way through birth delivery and getting you back home, whether that's international or domestic. So uh, and usually we get to follow up or you know, see them after the babies are born, or we'll see them at a minute having a baby event, or if we go, let's say to Paris or Europe, we'll have a little get together with all of our IPs and babies, and you know, I get to see. I'm so lucky I get to still see pictures and everyone from when I first started.

Gavin: 22:15

So and why did you start Sorrow Connection?

SPEAKER_03: 22:20

Sure, pretty easy. I was with an awful agency for my first experience. Uh awful. And it's funny because I actually sit on the board with them now and I can't really look at them. Um, but uh I wasn't the awful one. There just wasn't a lot of support for me, and I am not high maintenance at all. I worked full-time as a single mama too, and I didn't need a lot of guidance. I didn't, I feel it was very IP centered, where when I did come to them, they were like, Well, you just need to do what the IP said. And I'm like, No, I still have to parent my children and work and do all these things. My life shouldn't change that much. I'm taking care of their baby, they need to trust me on that, right?

David: 23:03

I feel like that's such a nuanced take on one of the hardest parts, in my opinion, of the surrogacy journey is this you have an IP and a surrogate, right? And there is a relationship there. And sometimes everyone can feel like the hero of their own story, right? So when the IP is like, no, you're doing a service for me, and the IP, and uh and the surrogate is like, you're I'm doing a service for you, but it's not like I'm not a hired hand, right? I am a human being and we're doing this together. And there's I I find that as a very nuanced, difficult relationship because you are both doing something for the other person, but inevitably the the baby's gonna go home with the IP. And I can see how the IP can get so self-centered in like this baby, this baby, this baby, and forget that there's a human carrying this person who has a husband and dogs and lemon drop martinis. Maybe that's why you didn't have a good experience. Too many lemon drop martinis while you were pregnant.

SPEAKER_02: 24:02

I know, but man, there were days that I wanted to for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 24:06

Um, you know, and I think I always say this is a very mutually beneficial situation for everybody, right? Yes, they are doing a service, but they are not transactions. So with our agency, we are far more personal, right? I don't think I would ever sell to a big conglomerate or to anyone at this point. I'd probably pass it down to, you know, my staff before that would happen. Um, the reality is we don't take on a lot of clients that are based transactionally, right? So that see this arrangement and this I always like to call them projects because I'm the project manager as transactional. They're humans, everybody's humans on both sides. They're gonna have hormones and emotions and and and then sleepless nights when the baby comes, like your relationship's gonna change, right? So that's why we have a support system in-house that's separate. So the the intended parents have their one support person, and again, my all all my staff have actually been surrogates or intended parents multiple times, they they understand they've walked the walk, and that's how we usually like match up when um uh interest card comes through. Uh, we'll match up. You know, is it a traditional couple mothers struggling with um infertility? I have someone on staff for that, right? I've been just straight IBF, right? I can take those on. I have my gay daddies on staff, so it's very pointed in how can we support you best as in their individual package, right? And then your surrogate, same thing. We match them with the personalities, where they're located, things like that, what they've been through or what they're looking for. Because some people come in and say, Hey, I'm honest, I'm just doing it for the money. If a relationship happens naturally, great. But I'm here to help a family and I want a house, right? And that's their down payment. That's why I did it. So I understand it. Like, let's be honest about it, right? Um, but there's also some intended parents that'll come in and have this vision of it's gonna be sunshine and rainbows, and we're gonna go on family vacations. And then they realize when the baby's there that they're focused, they are focused on the baby and they're still in touch with the surrogate, but it's not what they promised or not what they thought it would be as far as that relationship goes, right? And when you ramp something up for a surrogate like that, uh it's really a letdown for the surrogate. What I always tell people is just be authentic, right? If you don't know what that end result looks like or that relationship looks like, just say it. Let it naturally evolve, or if at some point it goes sideways, at least you guys can walk away with mutual respect, right? Because it is mutually beneficial, and you did your parts, and here's this beautiful human now in the world that um they get to raise, right?

Gavin: 26:55

Totally.

SPEAKER_03: 26:55

I hope that made sense.

Gavin: 26:56

I was curious. No, that makes perfect sense. And then uh surrogacy laws differ so vastly from state to state, but then also internationally. And I'm so curious to know what's it like to work in Europe? Are there huge bureaucratic barriers to push through, or moreover, are there cultural barriers to push through?

SPEAKER_03: 27:16

I think both, right? Um, I think it's both. Uh it's so interesting to me as a woman that in Europe, ego and you can watch basic sex on TV or you know, pretty hot and heavy things you would never see in the US, right? But then they talk about women selling their bodies and basically being prostitutes because they're giving birth to someone who cannot have a child. Like, who are you? It doesn't make sense to me, right? You know, I was so happy many, many years ago when uh the law passed in France just for same-sex marriage, right? I was so excited. I was like, that's gonna change our industry, and look at all these people that can have babies now. And France is one of the most restrictive places in Europe, right? Yeah. It actually, if you walk the steps, and and obviously my European daddies know each laws and attorneys in each country that help reintegrate baby, but and how that works on birth certificates here, and then how that reintegrates uh back to their home country, it's just really it's not daunting. We know the process now and we have it down pretty pad, but it's uh for someone coming in and not having that agency, the experience with the agency, uh I it's a long road to try to navigate that by yourself, right?

David: 28:40

You and I talked a little bit in the pre-interview um about your journey as a surrogate, and I I'm I want to talk through a little bit about that, and then obviously bringing me to the the bigger story here. But tell us a little bit about your surrogacy journey.

SPEAKER_03: 28:54

Sure.

David: 28:54

As a surrogate, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 28:56

Yeah, yeah. So the first uh two, uh I actually never saw the baby once the baby left, right? I was I am very business minded. It is me doing a service for them. Um, I think I got disappointed after the first one just because they made all these promises to my kids. And so I was really disappointed in that for my children. They were like, Well, where's the baby? They said we would come and visit, they would come and visit us. And I and I had to explain that to very small children, right?

David: 29:25

And was that was that something that the IPs made were like, you know what, now that we have a baby, we definitely don't want Megan to see this baby, or was it like we got swept up and we just ignored her and we forgot? Like, it feels weird to like I can understand the first hour or two, maybe it like slips your mind because you're so overwhelmed and there's measurements and blood and everything, but it would seem like have to be purposeful for them to leave the hospital with a baby and never having yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 29:52

And I think it was really disappointing because um once this is now my first surrogate baby is going to be 615 in July. So um I'm so happy for them, and they never thought they would have the baby. It might have been cultural because they were from Africa originally. Um, I was living in Houston then, but um I think back then it was almost so taboo, right? And not even talk about same-sex marriage. This is a traditional couple, it was their embryos, like, and I think the shame from the mom. Once she got that baby, she forgot where she got it, yeah, or how she got there.

Gavin: 30:34

They live in Africa, though.

SPEAKER_03: 30:35

You're saying no, no, no, they live in Dallas, so they were just a few hours away.

Gavin: 30:39

So they could you could have had a picnic once a year to come together if you if they had really wanted to, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 30:45

But also, you know, I think that was a big life lesson too, right? It was, you know, just protect your heart and just go into the next one because I loved the process and seeing their the joy in their eyes for the first time when they held that baby. It was is addictive for surrogates. It is so addictive. And I and to be honest, I I obviously sitting on men having babies and being around my daddies all the time. I was like, gosh, could have, you know, why'd I have to lose my uterus? It I could have just had one more for a set of gay daddies, right? Just to have a different experience. Um, but going into number two, I'm actually they were from China and it was kind of an independent journey. And it was just very in my heart, it was very transactional. I got to see him. Uh, they landed as I was getting discharged. So I got to spend a lot of time with the baby. Uh, and I saw them. They spent the first night at our house because my mom was like, they don't know what they're doing. And they just flew in from Japan, like, yeah. Yes, Japan. Um, and they're like, I'll stay and and up so they can get a good night's sleep, right? So they stayed with me the first night, but after that, I didn't even see them when they were in in Houston. So again, it was just more like, okay, I did it. I got to see it again. Like, he's he's cool, right? Uh, the third one is totally opposite, where it they're from Austria. I'm actually so close with the intended mom. We go on new kids on the block cruises together. She'll fly in. They'll fly out. Sorry, what?

Gavin: 32:16

There is such a thing as a new kids on the block tour.

SPEAKER_03: 32:19

Yes, it is the time of my life.

David: 32:22

Oh my god. That sounds amazing, actually.

SPEAKER_03: 32:26

Yes, I love them.

Gavin: 32:29

Okay, right on. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_03: 32:30

She'll she'll come in. It's usually every other year in here in Portland. We get new kids on the block, you know, tickets, and they'll fly in for the week and you know, show her name is Iduna. Show she's not a baby anymore. Gosh, she'll be 10. Um, but uh show her, hey, this is where you're born, and this is Megan. And uh, even though she only speaks German, my my kids play with her and like she's all grown up now, right? So I get to see her, and that was her pushing. That was the intended mom wanting that for her daughter. So that was a great experience. Um, it was it's fine if they I actually resolved like if they if I don't talk to anyone ever, at least I did my part, you know. I got to help three families and who am I to say what they do with it.

David: 33:14

So yeah. And so tell us, and then what happened?

SPEAKER_03: 33:19

Okay, so cliff notes because we could probably have a whole podcast just on this. Yeah, um, well, my nine-year-old now, uh, David got to meet her in the the pre-call. Uh, she was actually my surrogate baby. Uh, around 18, 19 weeks, I had uh been diagnosed with placenta in Krita, where the placenta grows into the uterine wall. Okay. And uh, so I involved, okay, let's get the parentage in order because baby could cut like we just didn't know. And you know, my doctor's like setting me up for death, right? She's, you know, you could die. There's probably gonna be 20 people in the room when you deliver, and uh, we're gonna, you know, if you have any bleeding or anything, you are in the admitted in the hospital and you don't get out. Like, so I'm trying to relay all of this to my intended mom. She was a single intended mom, and uh she just stopped contacting me. Holy shit, didn't respond to attorneys, doctors. Oh my gosh, talk about the worst 14 weeks of my life from this 14, 16. So, like it got down to the wire, and you know, obviously, being in the industry, I have lots of friends that are attorneys, and they're like, we don't see this.

David: 34:37

Yeah, no way. Yeah, and I feel like this is probably uh the one of the biggest fears for gestational surrogates, even though it almost never happens. And then you're here you are sitting here, and you're like, I I'm being ghosted with this woman's child inside of me.

Gavin: 34:50

Also, I'm like super experienced in this world. Like, how is this happening to me?

SPEAKER_03: 34:55

Right. And then all I kept saying was, I quit my job at Nike to do this business because of this journey. Like, this was going to be the income I lived off while I started my company.

SPEAKER_04: 35:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03: 35:08

Uh yeah, coming down to the wire, one of my attorney friends says, You have three choices in the state of Oregon. You can adopt her out, you can give her put her in the system, or you can keep her. And I was like, I don't want to keep her, right? No way. I'm already a single mom. I'm starting this business. Oh my god, I'm gonna get killed on social media for whatever. And I didn't want any more children. Yeah, two was enough. Yeah, and so I said, I went to my kids, and at this point, I'm actually setting things up to make sure that all everything's in place, life insurance. Like as a single mom, you make I made sure I very, very clear and what that looks like. God forbid, if something happened to me. Doctor tells me we're gonna deliver at 33 weeks, and and I said, Oh my gosh. And then on top of that, I'm gonna have a NICU baby and like all these things, right? And so it came down to the wire around 31 weeks, where um I sat my mom and my sister down because they didn't even know I was pregnant. Yeah, I have a really big butt. So and embrace it. Yes, that's fine. Uh, how do you think I got my husband?

David: 36:21

Um, big buttons are in.

SPEAKER_03: 36:23

So um, so I sat them down and they were both like, okay, so what's let's and then I was like, play this is what I plan, blah, blah, blah. I'm hoping she comes out of the woodwork. Like, everyone's still trying to contact her. They're like, okay. So then after that meeting, my mom and sister are in shock. I sit down with the kids. So I talk to that, start talking to them about, you know, mommy, they knew mommy had a baby in her belly. They were, they're so good about it that just knew it's like, oh, okay, it's a what it's a Wednesday, right? Yet again.

Gavin: 36:57

Yet again, mommy's doing her thing. Mommy just getting knocked up.

SPEAKER_03: 37:00

Yeah, 10 years straight pregnancy, right? That's why I drink all the lemon drops now. Um making up for lost time. So sat them down, and I said, So, mommy's gonna have this baby, um, she's not gonna have a place to go. I think we're gonna give her to a different family because they knew about the woman I was caring for, right? About her. They hadn't met her. And so um, my son, who's probably eight or nine at that time, maybe 10 at the most. Um, he looks at me and I'm crying, right? Because I'm saying, if something happens to me, this is where you'll go, and you'll go to Titi's house and Guam will be there. And like, I'm talking end of the world death stuff. And then here, let me sprinkle in this baby situation. And my son just looks at me and was like, No, she's gonna come home with us. And I said, I'm sorry, what that's from a nine or ten-year-old, that's not that's not what I was I was expecting. And Gabby, who's now my 17-year-old hormonal girl, is oh, I get a sister. I was like, No, like, can we divert to this is the plan or something should happen to mommy? I said, There's lots of things like you guys are gonna have to help me change diapers, and you know, I had to see had to have a C-section hysterectomy. Like, I knew I was gonna be down, and like all, and then we're gonna have a NICU baby, and oh, like all these things, right? I was like, You guys have to change diapers, and Aiden's like, I'll do it. I was like, Oh, they're still close to this day, which just warms my heart, but um, yeah, uh, so she ended up coming, never heard from her again.

David: 38:43

I was about to say, have you ever heard from her? Have you ever like done like so? We have a former guest, Caitlin Plaskett, who's like her dream is to just like find people online. She can find anybody in 20 minutes. So have you ever tried to find her?

SPEAKER_03: 38:56

Yeah. So my intended mom lives in Austria, the first uh the third intended mom. And she's oh I even reached out to her because I was like, well, gosh, why don't I just adopt, let them do a post-birth order and they can take the baby home? Cause and they're like, we just don't have the finances right now. I was like, you don't have to pay me. I don't like I never even got any money out of at all. And so I was like, uh, you don't have to pay me. Just I I could see her. She's with Iduna, like, please, just they're like, no, we we can't do it. So she is uh an investigator. So uh I she hasn't told me about it in a couple years now, but um she is yeah, she's alive because she's she's actually semi famous. So I say semi famous. Does she have children now? I I don't know now. I am afraid. So I lived the first probably three to four months of my life with with my nine year old now, uh living in Fear of ninjas coming in my house in the middle of the night and like taking her, you know, and which now like everybody's bonded to her, and especially being a Nikki baby, you know, everybody was taking nights at the the NICU.

Gavin: 40:15

Um, it's a special connection for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 40:18

Yeah, so uh yeah, so that so she's still here, never heard from her afterwards.

Gavin: 40:24

Have you heard of anybody else in this uh scenario?

SPEAKER_03: 40:28

Never now we've we hear those nightmare stories, not through our agency, of um the surrogate wanting to keep the baby, right? And usually you find that in tradit traditional surrogacy or or things like that. We don't we don't touch that stuff. So um, but you don't ever hear of the intended parents just disappearing. We've had divorces mid-journey, we've had those kinds of things, and life happens and we work it out, yeah. Um, but all the same, never a situation. I don't think anyone's heard of a situation like this. And of course, it has to happen to me.

David: 41:03

It literally, when you when you told me that story, I was like, I have never once ever heard of that happening.

SPEAKER_03: 41:10

That is crazy, and it actually happened to you, and all the and all the attorneys and doctors had never heard of it either. Never. And I was like, I'm so happy I get to share my experience.

Gavin: 41:21

You're out, you are making history, right?

SPEAKER_03: 41:24

I well, gosh, I I would hope in a better way, but um, but you know, she's an amazing child, she completely is the opposite of my genetic children. She's loving and kind and sweet, and and my genetic children are sass holes. So um, well, there are people come up and she looks just like you, like to my husband, who uh ended up adopting her, and I was like, uh just because she has tan skin and really blue eyes and dark rich hair, like I don't like but kind of grows it grows on you, I guess.

Gavin: 42:06

That's I mean, that's a remarkable story for sure. But I mean, you were the intended person for for that to happen too, because you've obviously sailed through it. And I am, of course, dying to know who this semi-famous person is. Maybe in a future episode, we'll have like we could start a um let's get Caitlin Plaskett on it.

David: 42:26

She will find this woman in eight seconds. Then again, she will have a full file for you. Um I do one at that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 42:33

I could probably Google her.

Gavin: 42:35

So, Megan, I am curious in all of the I mean, I go back to my question about your patience, and you countered with, well, I'm just honest, but I am so curious with all of the patience that you give to your staff and to the hundreds of people around the world that you work with, and in in particular, intended parents, who drives you crazy more? People in the surrogacy process or parents of cheerleaders?

SPEAKER_03: 43:00

My cheer moms are the worst. If you've ever watched Dance Moms, take that and duplicate it all around the world. And you will hear every gym owner and coach say the same thing. I love this athlete, but gosh, her mom is ruining it all.

Gavin: 43:20

That doesn't surprise me at all.

SPEAKER_03: 43:22

I think I get the warm fuzzy more for my surrogacy part, right? So things happen that are great every day. Some days are hard, but gosh, the gratitude and for my team and what we do and what impact, small impact we made in these people's lives, like matching them up and supporting them through this process is so heartwarming. And then I have to deal with a cheer parent and and over stupid little things, right? And it's like, is this really? I think that's my my mantra of life is how important is this? Is it me or is it them? Right? Because if it's them and they're venting and that's just how they are, you know what? I get boundaries and I'm the gym owner, so you don't have to, you don't have to be at my business. Yeah, same surrogacy, right? Yeah, there's been plenty of clients that I've fired and then have fired us.

SPEAKER_04: 44:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 44:16

We are not for we are not for everyone. I tell people that straight from the beginning. If you want someone who's gonna stand by your side every single day and walk a hard path, and you're truthful and honest with us, you know, you got us. You got us all day, every day.

David: 44:33

So speaking of shitty people, let's talk about the shittiest people of all children. And I want to ask you the question I ask everybody at the end of every interview, which is what is your favorite part about being a parent? And what is your least favorite part about being a parent?

SPEAKER_03: 44:48

So I think it's both the same sometimes.

David: 44:51

Totally. It's you know, a lot of the kids are the answer, yeah. Plain and simple. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 44:57

Right. I think for the last 10 years, my life's been a surrounded the kids and the connection to me owning the gym. And that seeing their achievements and seeing them proud and seeing them go through their journey of life and see it from their perspective is one of the most amazing things I think of being a parent. It's I didn't get much of a childhood. I was very, very responsible uh kid. And um, it's made me who I am today. It's made me that strong, patient person I am today. And I don't know about patient, that's probably not the best word for me. Experience. But experience. Um, but I think experiencing a fresh new life, breaking generational curses, right? Because I didn't have again, didn't have the best upbringing, but um, breaking those generational curses and living their life through their eyes is amazing. Now, the worst part is also almost the same thing. I've created three monsters, and I that are that I always think, gosh, especially my well, my my biological children, they're gonna either run a prison gang or really an amazing business one day. And um, my think my nine-year-old is my saving grace. Um, but they are me. They're stubborn, they are strong, they're independent. That's actually my new the newest thing from the nine-year-old is I don't need help, I'm independent.

SPEAKER_04: 46:29

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03: 46:30

All right. Yep. Own it, own it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, whatever. Great. I was like, you're not independent near the stove.

David: 46:36

So uh yeah, and can you be independent with a mortgage payment too, please? Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03: 46:40

Yeah, chores at least, right? Yeah, clean your own room. That's it. That's all we ask.

Gavin: 46:44

Not to mention the recycling and the trash.

SPEAKER_03: 46:47

Perfect. I don't even ask that. I'm an easy parent. Um, but I but also they curse. My mouth is awful, and I see that reflection. So I think if I could change anything, I could back up and curse less around my kids, but I won't tell you what their first words were. But they were not appropriate, they were not appropriate. Um, and uh I have videos and videos that my uh middle child would take of her uh the nine the nine-year-old now uh cursing when she was a baby and them just laughing and laughing. And I would walk in and be like, stop doing that, guys.

David: 47:29

Yeah, mommy's gonna get in trouble. Please stop this.

SPEAKER_03: 47:33

So, but yeah.

David: 47:34

Well, you know what? People either love you or hate you. But guess what? We love you. We decided we love you, and we thank you so much for stopping by and telling us your story. It is fascinating and wonderful. And thank you so much for demeaning yourself by being on our stupid little podcast.

SPEAKER_03: 47:50

No, I love it. Thank you so much. And um, you know, again, I just want to put a plug-in for men having babies and look at all your resources, and they're a great educational piece for yeah, daddies and people wanting to go through this process. So thank you so much for having me on. I'm so grateful. Thank you, Megan.

Gavin: 48:09

So something great happened when um I was my son is a fifth grader, and it means he's leaving his elementary school behind, which is so tough. It really is. And it fifth grade is a year of lasts, man. And um, we do something called Curiosity Shop, which is almost like uh parents bringing in hobbies and sharing the hobbies with the kids. And um, so he wanted to sign up for field games, and I very sarcastically was like, so basically you're just signing up for field day. Great. I I love it. Um, meanwhile, you could take my class, which is theater games, which is like, you know, zip zapp. Field day, zip-sap, totally zip zap top. Field games, uh, field day for theater kids, right? You know, like and we know that it's just and he so he actually said, Well, what are theater games? And I'm like, you know what? It's just like goofing around and trying to make each other laugh. It's just like uh improv games. And he's like, wait, what's improv? And I'm like, okay, fine. Anyway, but he said, you know what, Dad? Uh for my last year, maybe I'll give that a try. So I'm glad I convinced my absolutely non-theatrical kid to give it a try that I don't utterly suck.

David: 49:21

Yeah. That was something great. What about you? Uh, so uh, I know we're recording way in advance, but um, I am flying to LA next week. And what that I'm going there for work, so I'll be there for a week for work, but that's not all I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about a six-hour flight both ways all by myself. It's gonna be a spa. I can hold an iced coffee for as long as I want. Do you know what I mean? Like I get to watch movies and do stuff, but I can hold, I can, I can, I can have cables protruding for me. I can yep, I can eat something and finish it and have eaten the whole thing. Like, I can do so excited. Nothing and no one will bother your nothing. I I might get bored on this flight. Do you know what I mean? Like, I might get bored. And and I'm also gonna be in hotels by myself. Like, if there is like there's not a level of rotting that I I can like I am going to just be disgusting for an entire week in a hotel room by myself, and I'm so excited about it.

Gavin: 50:27

Our listener and me are so jealous of this.

David: 50:32

And that is our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

Gavin: 50:41

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFm Bond everywhere, and Gavin is at Gaben Lodge in a theater game.

David: 50:51

Please leave us a glowing five-star review wherever you get your podcasts.

Gavin: 50:55

Thanks, and we'll bore you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs!