The one with Trystan Reese

This week we try and figure out short term pain for long term gain, Gavin is gay for Berlin techno, we find the top 3 places to run around with a toddler, and we a lucky to be joined this week by author, speaker, advocate, trans father and all around multi-hyphenate Trystan Reese who talks us through his pregnancy, who's the star in his relationship, and how he earned that elusive parenting merit badge.

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

Gavin: 0:00

Or you can DM us on Instagram, we are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM Everywhere, and Gavin Lod Gavin is at GavinLodge at happy hour. Do that one again because you didn't say my name right.

unknown: 0:14

Oh.

Gavin: 0:14

Or you can DM us on Instagram, we are at Gatriarchs Podcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFM VaughnEverywhere, and Gavin is at Gavin Lodge. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's okay. I'm sorry. I am so lucky that you have that you've only fired me 16 times. I fired you twice today.

David: 0:37

And this is Gatriarchs.

Gavin: 0:52

So I was picking up my daughter at a playdate the other day, and the house was being run by a puppy. The puppy was teensy. Like I was able to hold it on one arm, but you could tell the entire household was revolving around this puppy. And the mom was like, I've never had a dog before. I mean, it's just like crazy. Like I'd leave it for all day while I go to work, and it's just pooping all over the place and peeing all over the place. And I said, being a fairly experienced dog owner, I'm like, well, you do crate it, don't you? It's a brand new puppy. It's just a few weeks old. She's like, oh, but she just cries so much. And I'm like, oh, come on. Mama, you have been a parent. Like, this is sleep training, girl. You have to sleep train this puppy. And while you never exactly put well, you did put a baby in a cage because it's called a crib. And the baby stays in the crib. And it keeps itself safe and it's safe, and it's warm and it's cozy and it's in a safe space. And you sleep train it. Like, girl, you're a parent. You should be able to know how to raise a dog. And the whole conversation was just like those comparisons about uh puppies and babies. Because I mean, for us, the dog was training wheels for parenting, you know? And in some cases, babies were easier, frankly.

David: 2:13

I could see the article already. It says Gavin Law says Yorkshire Terriers are just like babies. Yeah. Like I just see it already. That's fine. But it's not, it's not untrue. Like it's it's not untrue about the things. It's so funny that you tell this story. We have not just talked about what we're gonna talk about, but literally the thing that I was gonna talk about was these things where you have to do something hard in the short term for a longer term like value. And and it and I'm struggling with it right now with my four and a half year old, where he is such a dick all the time that I just kind of give up and I'm like, well, then fuck you. I don't want to play Legos with you anymore. And then of course I become the four and a half year old, but then I'm like, no, you've got this is a short term. And so like last night he was like, he has 15 minutes after his iPad before we have to go to bed. So what do you want to do? You'll play magnet tiles, you want to tell stories, you want to do what else? And he's like, I want to work on this Lego car, which somebody gave him, and it's for like 12 and up. So it is millions of the smallest little pieces.

Gavin: 3:12

You know, Legos, they do not misadvertise. The ages are appropriate. Even if you have a little Einstein, which of course we all have little Einsteins, the fact is a four-year-old needs to do four-year-old Legos.

David: 3:25

It's just And the instruction manual is as big as Anna Karinina. It's insane. So have you read Anna Karinina? Gavin, do you think do I look like a person who's ever read Anna Karinina? Um, but you know, he's like, no, I this is the thing I have to do. And so here's what happens in my brain. I go, I can play out the next 10 steps of this. I'm gonna take it out. You're gonna ask me to do it. I'm gonna say, no, you have to do it. We're gonna get an argument. He's gonna start doing it. He's gonna cry that he can't do it, but he's gonna want me to do it, and I'm gonna say, well, then fine. And then we're gonna get an argument and we're gonna run upstairs, and everyone's gonna be mad at each other, and bedtime will be ruined. So I'm just trying to not get this Lego set out. So, but then I go through this debate in my head over and over again. I'm like, yeah, but you're not giving him the chance. But in my the other person on my shoulder is like, yeah, but you know he's not gonna want to do these Legos. So I feel like this is a common thing we go through with like the short-term pain for long-term game. Like, at what point does it actually pay off, Gaven, with older kids? Tell me, it's a real question to you, because I am just giving up at this point with like being nice or asking me things.

Gavin: 4:36

My actual thought is the amount of times my my partner has said to me, Gavin, you realize you're the adult in the situation, right?

David: 4:43

Oh, that's the saddest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Gavin: 4:46

And you cannot be the child stomping away from your own kids and wanting to be like, well, fine, then stay there. Right? But uh but uh That's literally me.

David: 4:59

I'm literally like, well then fine, you can play by yourself. Fuck off. And I walked the other room. My husband's like, maybe you should act like a 44-year-old man.

Gavin: 5:07

I will say in too much of a sincere tone that I I think that the in the the frankly obsessiveness that I brought to early parenting, which included good eating, diverse eating, uh, which included not tolerating shitty behavior, it I do think it has worn it has worn well on us. And partly, I suppose that comes down to us talking about OPKs, not liking other people's kids. And when I look at behaviors in other kids that I don't like, I think to myself, well, I do think that we avoided that because of the slow burn commitment to setting boundaries like you do with a dog, and setting limits and not giving in. I mean, so often, how many times do you have to think to yourself, it would be so much easier to give in for my short-term gain? And you it is a it's a marathon. Parenting is a marathon.

David: 6:08

No, but I are I I did it in infancy, right? Like we were hardcore about sleep training, bed times, meat eating. Yeah, no sugar, like the applesauce cake of 11. But like it, I don't know why I'm struggling with that four and a half because he's like a person now and he's like throwing me shit. He'll just like walk downstairs and roll his eyes at me and walk away. And I'm like, well, then fuck you. I didn't do anything. You just woke up. What are you doing? And so I forget that like this is just another version of an infant. This is just a fucking chihuahua. This is a Yorkshire Terrier who needs to be crated. All right, so I'm gonna put my son in a crate tomorrow and I'll tell him Uncle Gavin told him to do this.

Gavin: 6:49

Completely unrelated. I do have a little bit of gay news to share with you, okay? I was noticing um something that I thought, oh, people might appreciate knowing this. I was listening to another one of my favorite podcasts, Shout Out Switched on Pop, which is two NPR nerds who pick apart pop music. And it is wonderfully NPR-ish. And they they do, I mean, they really break down music for all its musical components, and they talk about susphores and and backtracks, and I don't know, it's very, very in the weeds. But they were saying that recently UNESCO designated Berlin Techno as a culturally vital element of UNESCO heritage for the country of Germany. Like, along with, I don't know, the pyramids, Yellowstone, and uh other cultural artifacts. Machu Picchu, they have designated Berlin techno music as being a culturally relevant, important thing to preserve.

David: 7:54

I could just see the side text between like like the Machu Picchu and the pyramids. There's like a side text, and they're like, Did you hear about Berlin Techno? And they're like the nonstop eye roll emojis that would go on in that text thread.

SPEAKER_01: 8:07

Totally.

David: 8:08

But then there's the group text thread that includes Berlin that says, Congratulations!

Gavin: 8:12

Just added you.

David: 8:13

So excited for you.

Gavin: 8:15

Welcome to the club. Totally.

unknown: 8:17

Yeah.

Gavin: 8:19

But so then, of course, they went down a deep dive of uh Berlin Techno, and it definitely made me just want to like go rave. And they were picking apart uh the the attributes of um Berlin Techno. And it was pretty hilarious to hear two NPR nerds talking about it. But I thought, you know what? I think the gays would appreciate knowing that um you are not wasting your time by listening to dancing to all night long Berlin Techno. Pretty fun.

David: 8:49

Anyway, you you know what is a big waste of time? Do tell our top three list.

Gavin: 8:54

Gatriarch, top three list, three, two, one.

David: 8:58

So this is my week. So um my top three list this week is what are the top three non-traditional places to run around in with your toddler? Yep. Listen, I have I have young kids, you have older kids, but we all know that as parents, we are desperate for places to exist with our children where we can partially ignore them. So here are my other than like the play places and parks and stuff like that, here are my top three. Uh the number three for me is we live in the New York City area, is the train. Literally, we will take the train from our town into Manhattan, we'll get right back on a different train and come right back out. Fancy. And it is so great because they crawl around the seats. It's like it's an enclosed space, it's exciting. There's the, you know, all the stuff passing, so it's pretty good. Love it. Uh, number two, now this is only for very, very, very young kids, like under one and a half. Barnes and Noble. Because their like little kids' book, like board book section, has like stuffed animals. There's rarely anybody over there, and they're not going to destroy the place, and they'll just sit in your lap and read books. So that's a great one. Love it. Uh, number one for me, this is our go-to, Bob's discount furniture. Because it is a giant warehouse full of soft surfaces they can climb on and not destroy anything. And they often have like little free ice creams. We very often will spend an hour or two at Bob's. And they're all, I always feel so bad. These guys are like, can I help you find something? We're like, oh no, we're just looking. No, we're not. We're just here to experience your couches for free. So that's my list. What about you?

Gavin: 10:31

All three of those are very, very relatable. Um, so on my list, I would say shocker, and it's only my number three, not my number one, is bars. I loved it being able to go to a bar with friends. Uh earlier in the daytime, not necessarily late at night, although there was a time that I had my newborn in a baby bjorn um at a bar, um, actually after rehearsing for the Macy's Day uh Thanksgiving parade, which was actually very fun. But anyway, you know what? I just like bringing bringing a little levity to a bar situation. Number two, cemeteries. I think it's kind of interesting.

David: 11:06

This is a this list is taking turns. I did not expect.

Gavin: 11:10

I welcome being among the spirits, talking about life and death and uh and letting my kids, you know. I some people might clutch their pearls at the idea of touching headstones, but I'm like, you know what? This is uh this is part of life, is death. And uh and nobody's gonna yell at me to just like let them kind of run crazy around, right? Number one, airplanes. Now, I don't let them run crazy, but I do think that being able to walk up and down those aisles with a young kid is important to just like let them explore and see the people and touch the things, even though that those poor people being touched accidentally or being flirted with when they don't want to flirt with the toddler is a pain in the ass. But I will never forget the time that I was on an um international flight with uh my daughter, who was, I think, 10 months old at the time. She absolutely needed to get up and move. It was a long flight. So I let her crawl with me behind her. I didn't just let her go, but I let her crawl on this on the uh floor. And several of the people were like, Oh, you could, you couldn't possibly. And I'm like, listen, listen, she's not crying, she's not screaming right now. Yes, she's picking up every single uh dirty germ from the floor of an airplane, but I don't know. I mean, schools are worse and um and daycare is worse. So it's an airplane, whatever. And um, and it was uh it was uh it was a non-traditional place that I felt good about like letting her explore and flirt with other people as she went up and down.

David: 12:37

So there you go. So what are we doing next week?

Gavin: 12:40

All right. Well, if you might see that I like themes, that is true. I like themes, and I want to hear what are the three best things about you as daddy according to your kids. Our guest today is a multi-hyphenate author, speaker, advocate, trans father shaking up all things normative. Like Serena Williams, Demi Moore, and every other celeb taking high-fashioned baby bump nudie picks. Our guest did the same, but as a man. Please welcome to the show, the revolutionary Tristan Reese.

SPEAKER_00: 13:18

There's no nudity.

Gavin: 13:19

Well, it was uh it was close. It was close. You were able to be, well, simply shirtless, right? And it was fantastic. Uh, I don't think I did any shirtless folks. Oh my god, then this intro is complete bullshit.

David: 13:31

In my mind, we are we are in 10 seconds into this interview and you've completely railroaded it. You've offended our guests. Oh my god.

Gavin: 13:39

Clearly, I just fantasized about shirtless pictures of you uh with a baby book. That's so weird. That is weird. That's so weird. Well, moving on from all of the awkwardness that I completely fucked up here. How have your besides from me, besides from me, how have your kids driven you bananas today?

SPEAKER_00: 13:56

Oh my god. Uh I love it already. I love it already. That's a question. My okay, so this morning I had to say to my 13-year-old, hey, remember when you didn't do the laundry last night and you promised you would get up early this morning and do the laundry? Did that happen? And then she said, I never promised. I just said.

David: 14:19

She's like, Your honor, if you'll check the tape, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:24

All right. All right.

Gavin: 14:25

So semantics driving us all um off the deep end for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 14:30

Yep. And then my six-year-old is like snotty gross and coughing. And we were like, it's probably allergies, and just took him to school. So we'll see how that goes.

David: 14:42

Oh, you're I know, I know the parking lot of daycare wipe the nose, get you gussied up. I know that whole routine where you're like, walk, we're gonna walk really fast past the administrator so they don't hear you coughing and then dump you in dick care.

Gavin: 14:54

And you're in a safe space for all of that for sure. I mean, after all, school is just a petri dish anyway. But also, I mean, it is so past cold season, so obviously.

SPEAKER_00: 15:06

Obviously. And I did, I gave him a Benadryl and patted him on the butt, set him into school. So hopefully.

David: 15:12

Good luck with your life. No. I have so I have so I have done that more times. I hope we don't have any listeners that are at my daycare because I have so many times in the parking lot being like, you're not sick, you're fine, you don't have a temperature, just pouring medications down their throat, wiping their faces and pushing them. And I remember uh past guest Robin Carl saying that, like where their son puked all over himself in the car on the way to daycare, and poor Carl was just like cleaning them up as fast as possible to get him into daycare.

Gavin: 15:42

Because I mean, that doesn't necessarily signify flu. It might have just been a little car sickness or uh food poisoning or whatever. Could have been anything.

David: 15:50

Could have been anything. Yeah, could have been gonorrhea. We don't know. Literally, we don't know.

Gavin: 15:54

So, Tristan, enough of us. Uh, tell us about you. How'd you begin your parenting journey? Could you please?

SPEAKER_00: 16:02

By the seat of my pants. Um, I mean, literally, uh, we got a call from my my partner. Like, he my partner has three siblings. Um, all of them have kids. One of them was really struggling, and that sister social worker called my partner and said, Can you take these kids? They're gonna be pulled from the home on Monday. That I don't know that they will be able to earn the kids back.

SPEAKER_01: 16:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 16:36

Um, the bar is pretty high at this point, given the mistakes they've made. And um it's okay if you can't, but then they're probably gonna be separated and put into foster care and adopted out. And we were about a year into our relationship.

Gavin: 16:51

That is fresh. I mean, there are so many things to unpack there, not the least of which is we have had a lot of different parenting scenarios on in our year plus of catriarchs, but that is a scenario we have never come across. Wow. But I mean, the obvious question is were you planning to be dads together?

SPEAKER_00: 17:13

I mean, I was on a five-year track, my partner was on a 10-year track, and then it went to a zero-year track.

David: 17:22

Yeah. Your kids are like, we're gonna fuck up your track.

SPEAKER_00: 17:25

And they've been fucking it up ever since.

David: 17:28

No, no, no, it's okay.

Gavin: 17:30

So, um, and what uh you probably had no expectations at that point for parenting.

SPEAKER_00: 17:38

Honestly, this is gonna sound silly. I just really thought that it would be like being an uncle, but like forever. And that was wrong. That was wrong because I was a really good uncle, you know, and I just thought this is gonna be fun. Not just this is gonna be fun, but there was that like we can save them. You know, it was like a chance to do good in the world. And like if working hard and getting a job in the nonprofit movement, and like if all of that isn't to help other people, then what is it for? You know, I was kind of like, look at us, we're so selfless moment. Just really, really not realizing how how incredibly difficult it was gonna be and how woefully underprepared we were. One story about how underprepared we were. The kids were one and three when they came to live with us. And at one point we took them to a little indoor play place, you know, like a little playground but inside.

Gavin: 18:34

Another, another petri dish. Another petri dish.

SPEAKER_00: 18:37

Yep. And the three-year-old, he like lifted his arms up and his little pants just fell right down, which I thought was so cute and endearing. And I took a little picture and I sent it to my friend who was like, you know, their pants are adjustable. Right? Adorable. I was like, Well, what do you mean? And she was like, you know, that there's like a rubber band thing inside and buttons. That's what that's for. You you can tighten the pants. So that's how unprepared we were, as I did not know how toddler pants work.

David: 19:08

Uh if I'm being totally honest with you, Tristan, I don't think I knew that before you just said it. And I am a four and a two-year-old. I I didn't know that those pants were adjustable. So now I'm gonna have to go upstairs and check and make sure that that I didn't miss something.

Gavin: 19:23

Yeah, it is it's the height of toddler technology, though, that to have those adjustable pants, thank goodness for them. Because otherwise, literally nothing would fit and they would run around naked all the time, which might be a better, better place anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 19:34

But and like, you know, huskier kids wouldn't be able to wear normal pants. They can, you know, they really they work because bodies, bodies are awesome and also very diverse.

David: 19:44

But also I feel like kids' body, this is something I've learned because again, four and two, like the kids where where the you know, when kids are short with small, when they're just starting to walk, they've got these big Buddha bellies, and I never knew why. And then you found out it's because they don't their their ribcage isn't big enough to house their organs. All their organs are kind of in their belly. And then as they grow, they start to slim. So my daughter is wearing like my two-year-old is wearing like five T clothes. So was my son. But then as he got bigger and taller, he got skinnier and his clothes started shrinking. And it's just fucking chaos with the sizes. They're like, you know, my my mom was like, hey, what what pants should I buy your son? I was like, I don't fucking know. I don't know what size he is. Yeah. All just adjustable.

Gavin: 20:23

Now you know. I mean, but going, I mean, not at all easing into it, you went from zero to 60. Having a one-year-old and three-year-old, you you don't you got none of the romance yet of the the babyhood. You were just chasing toddlers and none of the dreaming, none of the prepping, none of that.

David: 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:43

No, none at all. And obviously they had been living in less than ideal circumstances. And so they had a lot of communication challenges, behavior challenges. The one-year-old had a pretty severe infection we had to get taken care of right away. So there were physical issues. Um, yeah, we it was we went from zero to two kids with no warning. Yeah. Um, and they have failed to leave.

Gavin: 21:06

When did when did you when did you and your partner look at each other and like say, Oh my god, can we do this? Or and then when did you say, Okay, we got this?

SPEAKER_00: 21:18

Uh the second thing has never happened. Yeah, I was about to say, yeah. It's been 13 years, and at no point have I said, I think we got this. And that's not true. We had one hard conversation with a 13-year-old that went really well. And I was like, Yes, we got this. Everything fell apart literally 24 hours later. But I would say, like, the point where my partner said, We I don't think we wanted, I don't think we should do this was before they came. I was like super gung-ho. I was like, this is gonna be amazing, like whether it's short-term, long-term, whatever, like we can totally we've got this. And my partner was like, I don't think you know what you're getting into. Um, and so my partner knew very early on before they even came, like, as we're driving up to pick them up, this is a bad idea. And I think it was about two weeks for me. I had to take a leave from work because we didn't have any legal connection to them in the beginning. So we couldn't enroll them in preschool. Oh, we couldn't, we couldn't do anything. We couldn't really take them to a doctor. Um, I did end up taking the one-year-old to a doctor for the infection and just lied and said we were traveling and I didn't have my insurance stuff and we'll pay out of pocket, whatever, just to reach it clear. Yeah. Um, but uh, I say two weeks in, after two just horrific weeks of like, you know, not just diapers and throwing up, but tantrums, communication challenges, hitting other kids, falling asleep at weird times, not sleeping all the way through the night. I mean, it was just a disaster. And there was one night when I just started crying, and I was like, is it too late to give them back?

David: 22:50

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 22:51

And my partner was like, Yeah, asshole, it's too late.

David: 22:55

Yeah.

Gavin: 22:56

But everybody has that feeling at some point for sure.

David: 22:58

But that's but that's that that is the in my opinion, that is the hardest time, and you've been thrown to the wolves, and they have these special challenges. It's like everything hits you at the same time.

SPEAKER_00: 23:08

Well, it's cute that you think that's the hardest time because your kids are two and four. And when you get to social media, bullying, self-harm, depression, anxiety, dating, sneaking out, uh all the things that come with being a teenager. It's like, oh no. Yeah.

David: 23:28

You know what the worst part about parenting is? Older parents. You guys fuck it up for us. You're not letting me get excited about the future. Come on. Why? Every day I get Gavin being like, oh, just you wait. Just you wait. We have a musical moment of just you wait because he says it so often.

Gavin: 23:42

Yeah. We uh yeah. So thank you for joining me in the just you waiting, Tristan. And frankly, you're just you waiting me because I'm just a couple years behind you and uh have all of these things to look forward to.

SPEAKER_00: 23:54

I mean, but there's it's both, right? It's like, oh, it gets infinitely harder. It also gets infinitely better in a lot of ways. Um, it's hard for me to see it right now because of where the kids are, but like I think it was two years ago when the my middle child, who's 13 now, uh, was 11, and I had a bunch of work trips to do, and I took her with me. And we like flew to New York, saw Blue Man Group on Broadway in Hades Town. Uh, she like did all the like checking people into my work event, getting them to sign in and showing them where the seats were. And then we took the bus down to Boston and we like hung out with some gay dads that I know in Boston and like saw like a circus, like modern circus performers. Like it was so cool. It was so fun. I could not do that with a six-year-old flying across the country taking a train. I mean, you can, but it's no fun.

Gavin: 24:46

Yeah. You had a you had a co-pilot in that. I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:50

And yes, someone to be like, you know, yeah, like even though it's 10 o'clock at night, let's grab ice cream Sundays on our way home from the Broadway play. You know, like that's fun.

Gavin: 25:00

Because you're well, I'll pay for this tomorrow, but you're still functioning still, and it's fun to be able to do that for sure. Take them off the grid a little bit. So, well, actually, before we move on from then though, do you mind sharing a little bit about where, why is is everything so stressful right now?

SPEAKER_00: 25:14

Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of it is age. They're 13 and 16, the the two kids that we adopted. And uh, you know, it is it's just challenging. And I think we also underestimated how important those early years are for their own development of self and their mental health and wellness. And and, you know, trauma in those early years has lifelong effects, you know, the the what happens ripples out into the whole rest of their lives. Um, and it can show up different for any person. Um, but for them, you know, they're still grappling with with the effects of that, as are we as parents.

Gavin: 25:52

Yeah. And society, frankly, for that matter. But so not to be left without having more challenges in your life, you decided to uh have another kid. Will you tell us about that?

SPEAKER_00: 26:03

Yeah, um, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

David: 26:07

Uh which I think is every parent's story. I thought it was a good idea, and then no, no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:13

Well, the you know, the big kids were a little bit older than they had been, you know, like around five and seven, and like school has started, and we're like, oh, okay, things are settling down a little bit. Biff my partner could go back to work, which was helpful for us financially. Um, and I had, you know, I had long had a feeling that there was a child who wanted to be born into our family. Um, since early on in our relationship, which you know, I didn't share with Biff because that's an awkward first date kind of a thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:45

Um, I've been having dreams about our baby. That's weird, you know, and so I just didn't say anything. And then the toddlers came and that was our whole life. But um, as it settled, I start to have this, you know, that that sort of little voice was calling to me. Um, yeah. And I basically pitched it to my partner. I'm a transgender man and and I have, you know, dozens of friends who are transgender men who've gotten pregnant, had babies, etc. It wasn't a big deal to me or to us, um, you know, medically or even quite frankly, socially.

SPEAKER_01: 27:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:17

Um, and so I just said, would you think ever think about having a baby? You know, the the two of us having a baby, and and Biff was like, no.

David: 27:27

No. I love that. Period. I heard the period in that. It wasn't no dot dot dot. It was no period. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:35

Um then, of course, yes, long silence. And then I'm sure that Biff saw how mortified I was and was like, well, you know, I love you very much. If this is something you really want to do, of course I'll consider it, but no.

David: 27:48

Thank you for your input, but no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:51

Uh-huh. Um, and we went back and forth, you know, for quite some time. And a really good friend of ours, Bear, actually recommended, like, why don't you put a moratorium on talking about it? Like set a time limit, just say for the next three months. We're not gonna talk about this. And we can each meditate on it on our own. We can go to the trusted people in our lives and get it feedback, input, but we're not gonna keep going, well, what about this? Just no, we're gonna just that's it. And so we did, we put a moratorium on it. And, you know, I continued to talk to people in my life, and Biff continued to talk to people in his life, and you know, eventually he came back around and was like, you know, you stepped into the unknown with me, and you know, these kids came from my family, and it was really my decision ultimately to do this, and you went with me on it. Um, and you trusted me. And now it's time for me to trust you. If you think that this is the next chapter for our family, I trust you and let's let's do it.

Gavin: 28:49

That's great. And it it did uh create waves. I mean, did you look for those waves, or is it because you have a pretty public persona anyway that the waves just found you?

SPEAKER_00: 29:00

It's a little bit of all the things. Um, once I did, you know, we had partnered with this really cool podcast, which no longer exists, um, a parenting podcast called The Longest Shortest Time with Hilary Frank. Um, she was the host. It was like my favorite podcast. I remember literally like I was taking, I took the bus home one day from work. I was listening to an episode. It was so good. And at the end, they all, you know, podcasts always do that little pitch where they're like, if you have a non-traditional parenting story, you might be a guest on longest shortest time. And I was like, I yes, I do. Um, so I wrote them a little email um and sent it, and they had us on to talk about the adoption of the kids, you know, the kids coming to live with us and everything. Um, and that had gone really well. Um, they really treated our story respectfully and with kindness and care and love. They cut out all the things where I sounded like an idiot. They kept all the things where I sounded really smart. You know, we will not be cutting those.

David: 29:54

We're gonna just FYI. We do the opposite. Yeah, we're keeping we're keeping the idiot stuff and we're gonna get rid of anything where you sound eloquent and beautiful and wonderful. Just FYI. That's kind of our bread and butter.

SPEAKER_00: 30:04

It's gonna be pretty easy for for y'all on that.

David: 30:06

I'll make it as easy as possible.

SPEAKER_00: 30:08

Um yeah, and so we'd done we told our story through that already. Um, but I didn't have like a big persona or national presence really. You know, I was just working at a nonprofit and doing my thing. Um But we did, once I did get pregnant, I did sit down with Biff and I said, you know, I think it's I think it's the right time for the culture to grapple with a trans pregnancy story in a big way. Um obviously I am not the first transgender man who's ever had a baby. There's hundreds, probably thousands across the world. Um, and it's not even new. Uh it's been happening for at least 20 years. Uh, my friend Matt has a son, Blake, who's 20 years old-ish around this time. Um, so it's not new, and I'm not the only, but you know, I did, I just thought it was the right time for that kind of a story. And, you know, in the trans community, particularly trans men, we've always handed off the mic to transgender women. That's what we did, that's what we wanted to do. Really? Um, there was a oh yes. If you're at a conference, if you're at a rally, if you're at an event, and a media person comes to you and says, tell us about Trans Day of Remembrance. Really? No, talk to her.

Gavin: 31:24

Interesting. I mean, I I get in your tone what you're implying, but I didn't realize it was kind of such an unwritten rule. And tell us why.

SPEAKER_00: 31:34

It's not just an unwritten rule, it's a written rule. We all teach each other that, you know, that as transgender men, you know, most of us were not visibly trans. And so we aren't targeted by transphobia in the same way. Um, you know, transgender women are having to grapple with sexism and transphobia. And if they're women of color, racism as well, they're really at a pretty brutal intersection. Um, and their voices are systematically silenced, undervalued, belittled, dismissed. And so it was always our job as trans men to elevate their voices and to hand off the mic. And that's been happening. You know, I'm I'm I'm like a dinosaur in trans years, you know, and I've been out as trans for over 20 years. That's always been the way. But I had this moment when I was early in the early days of my pregnancy where it just started to feel like maybe we'd gone too far, that we were expecting transgender women to do all of the educating, to be on the front lines of all of the cultural movements, to be pushing TV shows and books and movies, and all of a sudden they're the ones that are, because of the visibility, also the targets.

SPEAKER_01: 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:46

Um, and I, you know, I I watched that whatever interview where Janet Mock was, you know, asked about her genitalia. And I was like, this is so gross. Oh no, you know, like what have we done? Um and so I thought it was a a responsible thing to do as a transgender man with the privileges I have living in Portland, it's pretty safe here. Um, and then of course, being white, you know, being not someone that people used to see on the street and know was trans, that's all changed now since my pregnancy. Um but yeah, so I just sat down. I said, I think the most responsible thing here, if we want to be a part of changing the narrative about trans people and queer people and queer families, you know, I think it's time that we told our story. Um, and it's a positive story, you know, it's creating new life, it's bringing life into the world. And I thought that it was gonna, I thought it was gonna go really well. I did not understand the kind of waves that it was actually going to make.

Gavin: 33:42

But it did go well, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 33:47

Yes and no. I know that like our brains remember the negative things more than the positive. I know that, and there was a lot of positive. Um, but the negative I think was particularly for me as like a pretty tender person, I really wasn't prepared for the kinds of uh uh uh violent language that was gonna be geared, like directed at me, geared toward me. Of course. I really wasn't prepared for the level of vitriol and the scale of vitriol. I didn't I didn't ever imagine that like Alex Jones would be like ranting about me on his podcast.

David: 34:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:28

You know what I mean? Just like I didn't think that I'd be talked about on Fox News. I didn't think that the that literal Nazis were gonna tweet out my home address. You know, it's like things like that that you're like, oh, I was not ready for that.

Gavin: 34:42

Wow, my hindsight is rose-colored glasses. I'm sorry that I even brought that up, frankly, assuming that it was a positive thing. And yet you're here and you have channeled all of your experience into uh making the world a better place with your career and with your visibility and family.

SPEAKER_00: 35:00

Yeah, I've really tried.

David: 35:02

I think there's also something to be looked at. We talked about this a couple weeks ago um with some other trans dads we were interviewing. Sometimes I feel like when Alex Jones is talking about you and Fox Nose is talking about it, I don't mean the home address and actual violence. Sometimes to me, that's an accolade. If you're making them upset, you're doing something right. If you're making the the oppressors furious, I feel like there's something good that you're doing in the world. I'm curious what was the physical what were the what was the the things that were great about being pregnant and what were some fucked up things that you fucking hated?

SPEAKER_00: 35:38

Um lots on both sides. I the whole pregnancy experience, honestly, I I just felt like start to finish, like this is such a cool, weird, gross thing. All of those things. Um of the, I mean, the there were just so many beautiful moments. Um I think the intimacy that just like there's like another human that's growing inside of me, and he's just mine for now. You know what I mean? Just like a, I don't know, it's weird because it's just a little zygote and then like a little weird, you know, dragon-looking fetus for so long. Um, but it it was like I just had like a little friend, you know, like just like a little buddy, someone who, you know, my body was nurturing and growing and and nourishing. And that was really cool. Like the feeling the hiccups was really cool. Uh-huh. Because, you know, it's like he's really in there and that's his lungs like practicing growing. I got really into this science. I watched so many documentaries about human development. It was just so cool. And especially having the big kids too, to be able to tell them, like, for example, oh, so in this week, the fetus is starting to develop fingerprints.

David: 36:50

Yeah. Yeah. You know, things like that. Those apps are amazing that you can track. You're like, it's the size of a blueberry, and today they're growing their right lung. And you're like, ooh, a right lung.

SPEAKER_00: 37:01

Exactly. Yes. Yeah.

David: 37:02

Was it weird to feel like you were getting punched from the inside, like towards the end? Like our surrogate, I remember one time being like, your son just kicked me in the spine from the inside. I was like, oh, sorry, I'll punish him when he comes out.

SPEAKER_00: 37:15

Um, I never felt like he was punching me or kicking me, but there was movement, and that was weird. Like you could, like literally his little elbow or knee or something, you could like see it, a little the little bump on the outside, you know, and then just kind of massage it in. Okay, get back in place, bud. Um, but then the hard parts were a lot because um all my hippie friends told me that your body won't grow a baby that's too big for it. That is false. That is not true information. That was inaccurate. Um, and he was a gigantic monster baby, and I was a narrow person, you know. Um, and so that was hard, and so I had rib separation, which is where your ribs start to separate from your sternum. Not cool. No, her bad.

David: 38:02

Kids are kids are fucking nightmares from before they're born. They're already fucking you up from before they even come out.

SPEAKER_00: 38:08

Exactly.

Gavin: 38:09

Rib separation, Jesus. So one element of your family that we haven't talked about, and I've been fascinated for years, your I your Instagram handle at least used to be, maybe it still is, um, at Biff and I. Biff is a really big part of the family, but you are the face of the family in large part, right? How does Biff like being your uh your your entertaining sidekick? Or what is Biff's role in the family?

David: 38:37

Also amazing name. Biff, but also like obviously Biff Tannan from Back to the Future, but like Biff, what a great name.

SPEAKER_00: 38:44

Yeah, yeah. Um how does Biff like being I well Biff does certainly does not see himself as my sidekick.

unknown: 38:51

Yeah.

Gavin: 38:52

I mean, it is amazing. The the the irony being it's your Instagram handle, but um Biff's name is, you know, the handle. So the handle.

SPEAKER_00: 39:01

Yeah, yeah. But um and it is very confusing to people. Right. Um, but you know, I think it's with every kind of relationship, at least the good ones, where there it's it's a pretty constant ebb and flow between sort of like who's the starring character and you know, who's the understudy. And, you know, I I know that for uh for that period of time it was the Tristan show, you know, and yes, my Instagram handle was Biff and I, but I'm still the I, you know. Um uh and I think right now it's much more the Biff show in in our family. You know, Biff is like just got an amazing job working at an organization where he's been the the president of the board for years and is now, you know, the executive uh the like deputy executive director um and is like doing consulting work on the side. And I'm much more like the one who's like dropping and picking up the kids and going to the track meet and arranging play dates, you know, and so. just it's just there's always an ebb and a flow. Um and Biff will do whatever I tell him to do. You know, if I said like um uh you know like one of the morning shows they flew their crew out you know to interview us around the pregnancy time and I said oh you know the whatever good morning America is gonna be here tomorrow and uh you know I want you to dress like this because it's this kind of show and here's the audience and here are your talking points and you know like Biff was like okay sure whatever whatever um yeah it helps that he goes along with that that's great well then speaking then of the work you do tell us about what your career path is these days yeah um so I run my own consulting firm collaborate consulting which I love um I have ADHD and so I really need work where there is pretty consistent um like excitement you know like a lot of different things and so I don't know just as an example last week I was writing content for um like an uh an education tech accelerator and I did a training on gender neutral pronouns for a government power agency nice and then I did one-on-one coaching for uh someone at an arts organization who has ADHDs on a performance improvement plan around you know attention focus follow-through prioritization and then I did a keynote at a conference in person in Seattle so it's just like all those different things which I love so um lots of coaching one-on-one lots and lots of training um you know how to use generative to pronouns other inclusion things a lot around communication intercultural communication yeah fantastic all right let's go let's let's go low level all right Michelle Obama when they go high we go low all right so what tell us some nightmare stories about your kids I want to hear when you are covered in shit I want to hear when you drop them on the pavement in front of the Walmart. Give me some nightmare stories you know this I struggle with only because like I already wrote a book and told some of their stories. So I'm just trying to think about like what are what are my stories to tell versus their stories to tell.

Gavin: 42:12

Oh well the stories that you told in the book are they now have they now transferred to being their stories? Are they horrified that you told some of those?

SPEAKER_00: 42:18

No not at all. In fact it was funny our 13 year old I think last year she like found a copy of the book like in the house somewhere and went and read it and it was really funny because she would come out of her room and she would look at Biff with this nasty look. And Biff's like what? And she's like I'm just at the part of the story where you tried to say that you didn't want to raise me. You know so whatever the thing is whatever the story this is before they came to live with us. You know it's just us figuring out whether we want to do this or not. And so it was so funny to watch her go through the stages. And I asked her permission you know she and I have always had a really close relationship and I asked her permission to include XYZ stories in the book. Of course she said yes but she was like 10 yeah when it came out you know and and I imagine what she thinks is okay at 10 is going to be different at 16. Totally but definitely um so many poop stories. Give us one give us a give us your favorite oh my gosh well was the the first time that I was like oh I can do this um you know just like I am a parent. And what had happened was uh oh yeah she must have been one and a half and we were playing and then like out of nowhere she turns to me and she just just pukes just toes up the way all over me all over herself and like oh my God. So then I pick her up to try and get the puke off of her and then she has a poop explosion from the diaper. Oh nice so um it comes out over my pants uh my shirt and then I've still got the vomit on me and without even stopping to think like this is disgusting I I just go into I just went into like that full parent mode where it's just like okay great here we go I scoop her up run the shower take the clothes off diaper in the trash clothes in the hamper pick her up we're in the soapy water without even thinking yeah you know and then that's when I was like oh like there's some kind of you know ancestral instinct something that is triggered here which I don't know that I think some people don't think that can happen if your kids are adopted or you know not not you know genetically related to you that's just not true. It's just not um and so that was the time when I was like oh okay all right this is happening.

David: 44:41

You earned your you earned one of your merit parenting merit badges which is just being covered in various liquids and yeah not knowing what to do.

SPEAKER_00: 44:49

But then when your son was born um was there a sense of like oh well this kind of poop explosion is not something I had experienced before because I first became a dad with the toddlers yeah it was a little bit different but I think honestly because of the trial by fire from going from zero to two toddlers overnight he was so easy. Oh no doubt yeah no doubt so number one he's just been an easy baby he's been an easy kid he's six we went to a school event last night and the presenter those it was a literacy event and the presenter's like now kids how many of you feel like life is always easy and that your life is perfect because he's trying to make the point that life is hard for kids right my kid raises his hand is the only one in the auditorium of kids and then I look at him and he goes what my life's pretty good edifying for sure that's great. Like that's just how he is that's his personality or even when you know a kid at school bullies him or something and I was like oh my god a kid bullied you he's like yeah I just didn't listen you know like he's just his personality he was that from when he was born so yeah the poop explosions they weren't that bad they weren't as bad as toddler well always our last question what is the best thing about parenting and what's the worst thing about parenting well I like to always end on a high note and so I think what's the worst thing and then what's the best? Yeah the worst thing is that just like the world is hard. And and I've put so much love and care and work into these kids but the world is still hard and there's so little I can do to continue to keep them safe and to have them feel loved the further and further away they get from me as they get older and older. So I think that's the hardest part. Sure. And I think the best part is I think what happened for us during COVID, which is just the closeness just the being known you know the the seeing them for all of who they are and them seeing me for all of who I am. You know just that the family feeling like cells in the same organ, you know, that there's just this give and this take and you know we give each other some grace and we kind of tell each other when the boundary is crossed, that sort of flow it just feels really wonderful. Um especially given how scary the world continues to be to know that in this house we can all be real with each other and we can all be safe and have some fun and um I think that's the best part. That and the six year old still sometimes creeps into bed with me at night which I really which I really appreciate.

Gavin: 47:50

Totally Tristan thank you for being here and seeing us and bringing your truth and demeaning yourself by being on our stupid little podcast. Thank you for joining us Tristan not at all it's my pleasure I had one of those moments just you wait just the other day when uh my uh daughter who's in middle school was having a very middle school kind of day and she started to really open up to me in the car and I was able to turn to her and I wanted the conversation to keep going. I wanted her to keep going. So I said you know what this conversation calls for Starbucks I say no to Starbucks all the goddamn time for her because man does she love an eight dollar venti what is it a pink a pink drink light ice special fucking foam and it's all so expensive and I am so cheap it drives me crazy. Drives me crazy but I said let's keep it going and it worked. We went to Starbucks and we sh when she sided up and um ordered a grande I said make it a venti and I gotta say I absolutely uh bribed her into keeping talking to me and frankly when you get to this age you'll do anything to keep them talking so thank you Starbucks what about you?

David: 49:10

I feel like I've learned anything from you as a parent of tweens and teens it's that bribery is the name of the game.

Gavin: 49:17

I've been doing it for the last 12 years.

David: 49:19

I mean don't you well not really they're just too young for it now. I mean I guess a little bit but like no I'm taking notes trust me um my something great is also something um in the fast food sphere. So this may have been a something great of mine before if I'm being honest.

Gavin: 49:35

Yeah hey our listener has lost uh it has no idea what we said 13 episodes ago it's fine. The Wendy's app for me out I I definitely I definitely think you have used this before.

David: 49:48

Okay. You know what it's worth a second one because this app I we go to Wendy's a couple times a week if I'm totally being honest. They have great salads I love their chili like I don't want to talk about it. But not only do you get the normal things right points and then you add you know you collect a certain amount of points you get free items but every single day there's like eight to ten coupons in there that are almost always three to five dollars off something or a free cheeseburger or a free frosty or a free something. Guys if you go to Wendy's and you're not using the app what are you doing in your life and if you go to Wendy's with children and having to get multiple meals get those points baby. So you know what my something great this week is the Wendy's app.

Gavin: 50:27

I would love to know what our Venn diagram overlap is of Wendy's regulars and Gatriarch's listeners. I please please please start a thread out there somewhere get us some traction and let us know if you go to Wendy's and you listen to Gatriarchs. And unfortunately that is our show if you have any comments suggestions or general compliments you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com or you can DM us on Instagram we are at gatriarchspodcast on the internet david is at davidfmvaughn everywhere and Gavin is at gavenlodge at malls please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts thanks and we'll use your app next time on another episode of Gatriarchs