The one with filmmakers Andy & Danny Vallentine

This week, we are disappointed in the uniqueness of our kids names, Gavin's daughter doesn't want to hug him, David goes to Kindergarten, we rank the top 3 tiny things, and this week we are joined by filmmakers and fellow gay dads Andy and Danny Vallentine who join us to talk about their new movie, The Mattachine Family, as well as flying to Ireland with a 2-year-old, having a newborn while you make your first feature film, and what happened during "the pasta incident." 

Questions? Comments? Rants? Raves? Send them to GaytriarchsPodcast@gmail.com, or you can DM us anywhere @GaytriarchsPodcast

Transcript

Gavin: 0:00

I this I feel like I'm on I'm in a threesome with a bag over my head. That's what I feel like right now. Great. And this is Gatriarchs.

David: 0:22

So last night, my husband and I, we got a babysitter because we had to go to kindergarten orientation.

Gavin: 0:29

Oh, little buddies growing up.

David: 0:33

It is yeah, it is weird. It is, it is for sure not at like I have never been the it's happening fast person. As you know, it's excruciatingly slow, and I don't understand when people say go so fast. Right. And maybe I will on the other end. But it was the first time I went, oh, well, he's the baby. He can't go here. This is a school with like doors and a principal and a like a and homework, and there's a curriculum and buses and all the things. And so it was really strange to be there. It's also the thing that you and I and every other gay parent go through, which is like you immediately scan the room for friendly people, not friendly people, other gay people, not gay people. And of course, we were the only gay dads in the room. Really? Yeah. Oh wow, that kind of surprises me. Yeah. I mean, I'm not in a super gay daddy area. Um, there are other gay dads and other gay families in our area, but they don't have kids going into our kindergarten this year. But it was really uh a strange experience because these are the kids that conceivably could grow up with him that he's gonna become friends with. Yeah. Also, the principal of the school is like hot question mark. Oh, and so I was like, oh, that's all that's a new wrench you're throwing this in. Am I gonna have to start sleeping with my kids' principal? Um, which would be very strange. But um, yeah, it was a really I there's no like real funny story here, but it was like a weird like a rite of passage that I'm going through. Yeah, that I'm going through, that he will eventually go through and he'll be fine or whatever. But it was really fucking weird to be in this room and be like, oh yeah, this is the there was we're at the gymnasium and there was a little stage where I imagine there'll be plays someday and the classrooms and that you know, it's just crazy.

Gavin: 2:13

It's um it's awesome. It this is reminding me of my days going back and doing that, uh, and that you had to get a babysitter for it, which is, I don't know, somehow ironic and stupid that you had to pay to go to this thing, but essentially. Did you make it into a date night or anything? Did you go out for it?

David: 2:28

Kind of. I mean, I mean, listen, we went to the Dair Queen afterwards, and I got a uh I got a medium frosted animal cookie blizzard. But uh what but the they they said they do this with just parents because they want to be able to speak candidly about things and and talk about school safety and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, um, but what's really fucked up is literally the same day we went to uh a park and we went to somebody's birthday party, and it was a kid's birthday party, and so we were at the park across the street for a while, and then we went over to this birthday party. And so we're at the park across the street. So my son's name is Emmett, and it is a like you've heard of the name, but it's not a super overused name at the moment. And I've never met any other kids his age named Emmett. And so, of course, I wear that as a stupid badge of honor because all parents our age love a unique name. Yes, we love something that nobody else has, and we're all trying to do the same thing, and then everyone else, and then everyone else comes and has the same name. But I've been kind of proud of it. And then we're at the park and I hear Emmett come over here, and I'm like, who the fuck is that? It was a girl's voice. I look over there and I was like, why is she talking to my son? It's so weird. And I look over at him, I'm looking at her, and this other little boy runs to him. That and I was like, Oh, and I like speak over there, and then she's like, Emmett, dropped that, and I was like, Oh, your name is Emmett. Uh oh. I was like, and so I was a little disappointed. Yeah. And so, like, whatever. So then we go to the birthday party, which is at a zoo, and we're walking through the zoo, and then there's a different fucking kid, and they're like, Hey, Emmett, come over here. And I went, wait a minute. Wait a fucking minute. I will not have two other Emmett's in my vicinity in the same day. So we're changing his name.

Gavin: 4:10

I'm glad that you have reached that uh realization before. I mean, you can change his kindergarten registration now, and that's gonna be a lot more helpful so you don't have to do it when he's in like fourth grade, because that would be really confusing.

David: 4:19

I have to. I have to be different. Like if if and if another gay dad came in with a kid named MM, I would just say I would light myself on fire. I'm like, I'm not gonna.

Gavin: 4:26

Hold my hoops. Right, right, right. Do you have have you already um brainstormed the new names? Is it gonna be like, I don't know, Sylvester or um, Cosmo?

David: 4:36

I I think I'm just gonna do it by like it his name can't be written, it can only be performed as like you know, by a like a you know, a yellow-bellied bird or something. Um so something really easy. Yellow yellow bellied bird.

Gavin: 4:51

I uh so when we after COVID, um, when we when my kids started at a new school, my son's name is Colton, which is I would yeah, I would argue a titch more uh unique, even than Emmett. Not that I'm gonna one up you or anything, but you know, he goes to school at a completely new school, very small school in comparison, comes home and we say, Oh, so did you make new friends today? He said, Yep, Colton. We're like, well, right, but did you make any new friends? Yeah. His name's Colton.

David: 5:22

We're like, you're like motherfucker.

Gavin: 5:24

Yeah, totally. Totally. Um yeah, they're still in school today. And uh, and we and then we were kind of like, well, which one's gonna be which one's gonna be nicknamed? Which one has to have like the last name after it, you know? And um I'll the jury's still out on that, frankly. Um so unrelated to any of this, we hit a milestone just today when um my daughter is starting to wake up with an alarm. And I admit that she is probably, I don't know, I was definitely, she's 12, and so I was probably waking up with my own alarm before not having my parents wake me up. But I really love waking her up and being the one to, you know, like turn on the light and open the uh window shades and ask her if she had any dreams and what does she want for breakfast? And she's been for a while pushing away and being like, you know what, I just want an alarm. You know what? And I'm like, yeah, just dismissively, like, nah, we're not gonna do that. She definitely wants an alarm. Now, this is partly because she wants to sleep with her phone in her room. And let me tell you, parents out there, that is my number one, absolutely no way. Are you sleeping with your phone in your room? Um, no, not until you're 18. And then you can go make your own terrible decisions. But anyway, in the midst of her pulling away, which is what she's supposed to do, this morning she came down. I was already making her breakfast, just you know, working my ass off for her. And I said, Hey, can I have a hug? She said, No, I don't feel like hugging today. And I thought, this is the beginning of the end. This is it. She's never going to hug me again. And it's different from a four-year-old being like, Daddy, I don't love you anymore. And you're like, Okay, well, whatever. Here's your you know, girl cheese sandwich. This is a teen, a preteen, being like, Yeah, I don't want to touch you anymore.

David: 7:08

And it reminds me like you said, it's normal. It's a bio, it's a biological response, and it's supposed to happen, and it's still, I'm sure it feels fucking heartbreaking.

Gavin: 7:16

Well, it's not yet heartbreaking. It's almost, I guess it's I would just say it's kind of depressing to think it reminds me of my mom. I remember her so frequently, especially when I was in high school, I think. I think it was high school, her saying, you know, studies show that every human being needs to be hugged 17 times a day. And even in the 90s, I'm like, who the fuck has time for that?

David: 7:39

Did she read that in like chicken soup for the soul?

Gavin: 7:42

You know she did. Reader's digest or whatever. But um, and uh, and now I'm like, oh my god, I'm I I am my mom and I want my fucking 17 hugs a day, you know? My son already kind of does the lean hug. There's no arms around me, you know. He just like leans into me and I'm like, I'll take it. Now my daughter's just like, no, you're disgusting. You're you're too cringe.

David: 8:06

I don't want to give that up because I'm uh like my love language is touch. And like when my son or even my daughter gives me that like monkey hug where they wrap their legs around you, and just like and it's like I it fills, it like just refills my spirit feeder. And with that going away, oh, not interesting. Just you wait. Just you wait.

unknown: 8:25

Here we go.

David: 8:25

You know what we don't have to wait for? Tell me our top three list.

Gavin: 8:29

Woohoo!

David: 8:30

Gate three arcs, top three list, three, two, one. This week is what are the top three tiny great things? Oh, okay. Like like a lot of things we do on this this show, it can go a lot of different ways. Yeah, I have to do that. The way you do it is absolutely the correct way.

Gavin: 8:46

Okay, I'm glad to hear that. I do need that validation because I know we're gonna go in completely different directions. Totally.

David: 8:51

And even I went into two totally different directions within my list. Okay. So I will I will get into it. So um, in number three, dipping dots.

unknown: 9:02

Okay.

David: 9:02

Do you know what dippin' dots are? Yes, I sure do. If you don't, if you don't want that out of there, they're tiny little balls of ice cream that are like frozen beyond belief, and then you kind of scoop them up and they like kind of meld in your mouth. It's like it's like eating marbles that turn into ice cream. It's a very strange experience that it's at every single theme park you've ever.

Gavin: 9:20

Yeah, theme park. And they're really overpriced, they're really pre-packaged because this is not something that you scoop. Don't didn't we used to call it astronaut ice cream, though? Something like that.

David: 9:30

No, astronaut ice cream is like the freeze-dried ice cream.

Gavin: 9:33

Yeah, well, equally disgusting. Well, no, dip and dots.

David: 9:36

No, these are this is at least real ice cream. It's creamy and real, but it's just like little balls of it. Um, and I like little balls. So speaking of number two, little balls. Uh number two for me, it's it's very it's adjacent to dip and dots, but I think it's its own category. Sprinkles. How great when you add sprinkles to anything, right? Sprinkles are nothing, they're not nutritionally needed, they're just a little bit of sugar and cornstarch. But man, vanilla ice cream, but then vanilla ice cream with some rainbow sprinkles on it. That's a tiny, great thing. Um, and for number one, I'm gonna kind of go away from the literal tiny thing, and I'm gonna go into like the small lift but big thing. And for me, number one, just staring into the night sky. It's a tiny thing. You're just laying there, you're not doing anything. But something about looking at the stars at night and just like letting your mind wander is so fucking great. And so that's my number one.

Gavin: 10:34

That was the most game.

David: 10:37

I know you better, you better have like dicks or something on your list to balance.

Gavin: 10:41

Well, you talked about tiny balls for a second there, but then inadvertently. Inadvertently. Okay, for number number three for me, travel size. I just like buying travel size shit. It's it's very satisfying. It is, it's definitely in contrast to my environmental nature, but there's it's very satisfying because you buy travel size stuff and you're like, I'm going somewhere, and that's always exciting. So I like travel size stuff. Uh number two, Starbucks short. I don't even know if I know what that is. Really? They don't advertise it. You have to know to ask for it. But you can get a short-sized cup at Starbucks. It's smaller than a tall. And so often I think, you know what? I'm I'm disgusted by their prices. I'm disgusted by their upsizing of absolutely everything. Once in a while, I don't want a full cup of coffee, I just want a short. And even though it probably costs five cents less than a tall, so I should just upgrade, which is what their entire capitalist ploy is. I kind of feel like I'm sticking it to the man by ordering a short. Yeah, Starbucks short. I don't think they do iced, I don't think they do cold um shorts, but you can get a short cappuccino, you can get a short coffee, you can get a short. I I I'm so proud that I'm bringing something new to you. Yeah. Um finally, even though I get so much shit for it all the time, my number one is my mini iPhone. Oh, I have an iPhone mini. I have an iPhone mini. I love it. I appreciate having something that doesn't ruin my line in my jeans. I like having a little phone. That is my number one tiny great thing. So for next week, let's just go ahead and pivot. I'm gonna take your little thing and make it a big thing, okay? Tell me about great, big things.

David: 12:33

So, our next guests are two Hollywood types who met in marching band. Now, when they weren't tickling their piccolos or Frenching each other's horns, they were busy making a new movie out now called The Matachine Family, about a gay couple deciding whether or not to have another kid after their foster kid returns to their birth mother. And how art often imitates life, they are also gay dads with a two-year-old daughter via Circusy. Clash your cymbals and twirl your batons for Andy and Danny Valentine.

SPEAKER_05: 13:01

Hey guys, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01: 13:05

The word play on the on those marching bands stuff.

David: 13:08

Guys, this is this is high level. We're at smartless level podcasting right now. High level. You know what I mean? You gotta swoop in with a big stuff. And this is our first forgy, by the way. Yes, yeah. We were talking about before we started recording our first foursome.

Gavin: 13:20

So yeah, because this is an audio medium uh for those listener out there. There are four screens going right now, and we love it.

David: 13:28

So so you guys are here because you wrote uh a big gay movie.

SPEAKER_03: 13:32

Yeah.

David: 13:33

Do you want to tell us a little bit about your big gay movie?

SPEAKER_03: 13:35

Sure. Uh so it's called The Madine Family. Uh, we've been we had been trying to make it for many years in LA, and it finally happened. Uh, it's a story about a gay couple and their journey to become parents. Um, the movie is like it parallels a little bit of our own life. Um, you know, uh Danny, uh, we've been together for a while. Dan, how long we've been together for many years. We've been our 10-year anniversary is in October. And so you had a little snarl when you said that interview. You were a little like, how long have we been together? I always forget it like the the years. I don't know. Like once you get past a few years, you just forget. I don't know. Maybe that's just me. Anyways, uh, um Danny very much, you know, wanted a child right off the bat after we got married. All of our like friends, especially our friends back in Michigan, were having kids, and I was like, definitely more like, oh, I got we gotta make a movie first, or I gotta make a movie, I gotta do all these things in my career first. And so kind of that that drew the, you know, that was the inspiration that kind of started the movie. And uh, we're so excited. It's like finally out now on Apple and Amazon. You can go buy it. Um, and it's it has some really great uh actors in it, Nico Tortarella from Younger, Juan Papa Apache from Fuller House, and then Emily Hampshire from Shits Creek.

Gavin: 14:52

There's a lot of faces that pop up, and you say, Oh my gosh, I didn't know they were gonna be in here. Um so yeah, that's it's definitely a who's who. It's fantastic. Wait, wait, wait. So I need you to back up. You went from Michigan marching band to suddenly we're gonna make movies in LA. Yeah. I mean, did you always, while you were playing instruments, were you also planning on being movie makers? You're both of you as well?

SPEAKER_01: 15:14

Andy for sure was. Andy was uh well known in the marching band as like the video guy. He in fact once made like a this is a big deal for the mascot Sparty in Michigan State. Andy got to do like this like Sparty intro video that played on Spartan Stadium to like 80,000 people. Damn, that's a big deal.

Gavin: 15:37

Was that like Sparty's backstory? Like how did Sparty become like the origin film? The origin film, right?

SPEAKER_03: 15:44

It was like it was like a pump-up video. He was like getting ready, right? You know, so I guess I so I had always done it. But Danny, you always wrote in college, like you always wrote stories and short stories and shortcuts.

SPEAKER_01: 15:54

I didn't really see myself as a screenwriter until I moved here, but that was something that I picked up. And I was like, oh, I guess if I'm gonna be a writer in LA, might as well do screenwriting.

David: 16:03

Now those and it's super easy to do, right? Yeah, just write a script and then people make it.

Gavin: 16:07

I think the millions of screenwriters who listen to this podcast, undoubtedly, all just collectively sighed because they're like, oh, if only it were that fucking aze.

David: 16:17

Well, it's funny when you were, Andy, when you were talking about like, well, I wanted to, you know, make a movie first before we had kids. I was like, well, what the fuck are you talking about? It could take you 150 years before you make a movie in Hollywood. And also, I love that point of view of like before you're a parent, you're like, well, I want to make sure I'm set up and ready to be a parent. And as we all know on this call, you are never ready to be a parent, especially after you've had a kid. You're like, wait a minute, I'm not ready for this.

SPEAKER_03: 16:42

Yeah.

David: 16:43

And so wait, when you guys started dating and you guys were talking about kids, did you know kind of what you how you wanted to become dads, or is that like a future conversation? Because I know you ended up doing surrogacy, but you know, your characters in your film did foster to adopt, or I guess just fostering. Yeah. Um, how how did that all come about?

SPEAKER_01: 17:02

I would say actually, when we were dating, I don't think we talked about really having kids. I think, and that's something that we talked about, though the character Thomas talks about in the movie, is that there's like in terms of for me at least, I didn't really think fatherhood didn't seem like an attainable goal. Like, even if I was like in a relationship, I didn't really see like the pathway to it, and I didn't really have like the model in Michigan. Certainly, I didn't really have models for how that would play out or happen. So it wasn't until we kind of like, I mean, we weren't even allowed to get married when we started dating, so that wasn't even like a possibility either. So, you know, would as you know, society progressed, and then all of a sudden we got married, that's part of the discussion. We're like, okay, well, now we see like a path forward, maybe like how we could have children. And um the the pathway, I think, and again the movie kind of parallels this discussion as well. Like, Thomas goes through and like they he fosters with Oscar, um, but then he kind of explores like he goes and sees like surrogacy or people who are kind of like forming families with like their lesbian friends, and those are kind of it parallels kind of our path to like exploring different options as well before we kind of arrived at surrogacy.

Gavin: 18:05

So many universal themes of parenthood and how people become parents are all smashed into the movie very efficiently. Again, kudos, it's excellent.

David: 18:14

And I think what I if I uh one of my favorite parts of the movie is that there is a really interesting use of nonlinear storytelling, which I think sounds like a buzzy word. Yeah. But if you watch the movie and what I'm talking about, there's a lot of things that happened in the past and and will happen in the future, and you kind of dance around in a way that feels atypical, but I never felt like I was lost. There was never a time where I was like, when are we? It always seemed very clear and it kept the ball moving. Sometimes in these like independent dramedies, dramas, there's uh there there can kind of feel like a lag of like momentum. And when you jumped around a little bit, it it it kept that going in a really nice way. So everyone go out there on Apple TV. We talked to Andy yesterday about you were like, oh, it just popped up on Apple TV, so exciting. So everyone go out there and download it. Uh it's a great movie. Um, so tell us. So now your parents, how uh tell us about the process of when you decided to become parents and you're like, we're gonna do surrogacy. How did it go? Easy, right? Easy and cheap. It was so easy.

SPEAKER_03: 19:12

We sent an email and then the baby came the next day.

David: 19:15

Yeah, wrapped in a Tiffany's box and like really nice. Yeah, yeah.

Gavin: 19:19

Y'all, that could be the future, though, by the way. That is so post-apocalyptic, but there might be just an email uh baby just a Jeff Bezos baby arriving.

SPEAKER_03: 19:27

That's very true. Um, no, it took it took a long time. Um, I mean, once we decided to, you know, have a child, it was like figure navigating like what and we wanted to do surrogacy. It was like navigating that whole process, which is like not super easy in terms of like, where do you go for an IVF doctor? Where do you get an egg from? Where do you go and and find a surrogate? And so once we like kind of landed on our agency and then they kind of do all of those things, you know, which was a a bonus. Um, you know, it took 11, I don't know, it took how over a year, right? Before uh Florence was born. And then Florence was actually born a month after the movie wrapped filming. So wow, it was like the craziest fucking like few months of our lives where it was like we worked so hard for this movie, and then in the back of our minds, we're like, holy shit, our surrogate is pregnant. She's showing there's a baby coming, and then it was like a few weeks off after the movie, and then literally literally we were dads.

Gavin: 20:32

So um, I mean, thank goodness she didn't come a month month early. Because that is very possible, and then you would have really understood what a shit show is the definition of yep, yeah, yeah, yeah.

David: 20:45

I I can't I can't imagine you being in post with a fucking infant.

SPEAKER_03: 20:49

Like, how do you even do that? It took it took a long time, and it like you know, Manishine, it's like indie LGBTQ drama, so it's not like we have all of this kind of money that's like I have a post team working on the film, and then I get to go in and review the cut. It was like we had budget for an editor for two months, and so like John, our editor, started in January and was there two months, and I'm like not getting great sleep. I'm like, I'm still working as well. Danny was uh with Florence at home. Um, but then like after those two months, it was like I the movie was like passed off to me, and so then I had to like finish editing it, you know. Um, and so it just was like, you know, being a dad, uh editing a movie. And then it's like it's also, you know, a movie, not to like talk so much about the movie, but it's like hey, that's why you're here. It's all right. I know, but it's like I'm not uh I had made short films and I had made music videos and commercials, but I wasn't like an expert in making a movie. Like I had never done that before. I had done all of these elements and these little pieces that like you do that you you learn and then you can put together to make the movie, but like once I was like in the edit bay, I was like, I don't necessarily know exactly what I'm doing. So, like, David, I appreciate what you said that about the linear the story because that was a huge thing where I like didn't know if it was working. I was like, do I put cards up that say two months before or three years before? Do I do all these? Like these are all like, you know, for a filmmaker, for a first-time filmmaker, it's like very much it's like kind of learning on the job of like how you do it. Right. So I don't think people understand.

David: 22:25

I we talked, I work on the television side, but it's still the same where like you maybe write a great script, but there's you know, there's three versions of everything. There's like the the script you wrote, right? The movie you shot, and then the movie you edited. And like things like that, it sounds like such a small thing. Like, are we doing supers? Are we doing title cards? Or am I doing it literally? Like it's the same footage, but that could have a massive impact. Yeah. And if you are your brain is drained from being like, I'm up 10 times in the middle of the night with this child, then I don't know what I'm doing. And also I don't know what I'm doing at work, and I'm just filled with all this self-doubt. Yeah, that could be that could have made it, you know, you could have chosen to do title cards or told it just in a chronological order, and it might have sunk the movie, it might have made it a fucking huge hit. You just never know. Yeah, but the fact that you were doing all of that, all of that at the same time, and you have a two-year-old that's still alive and happy, and you have a great movie. Kudos to you guys, you did it.

SPEAKER_05: 23:16

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01: 23:17

Yeah, there were there were many, many times and Andy would come home after being like late in the office with the with the movie, and he'd be like, Your fucking script, Danny. Like I he would have like re-edited it, so it's it was linear, and then he'd be like, it didn't work, and I have to scrap that whole thing. Um wow. But it is really funny. It is like in this, you read it and you you have like the the slug lines that say like it's the past and you know, but it like when you has to go visual, you're like, Oh, now it's not so clear. And Andy had to solve all those problems in the post.

David: 23:47

And are we doing yeah, and were we doing like some sort of like uh are we doing some sort of filter to represent the past? Are we just doing it cleanly? Are we doing some sort of word musical transition? All of that stuff can have a huge effect on your footage that is always the same. And it's like, and you just don't know. I don't think the best people know. I think they have maybe a better intuition on what could work and what couldn't. But I think we all kind of just go, I think that one. Yeah, and then it either works or it doesn't.

Gavin: 24:12

Yeah. So that begs to the question also, what is your working relationship like? I mean, you're not exactly, it's not like you're code directing, but you may have a different vision for the outcome or the execution. How do you guys navigate that?

SPEAKER_01: 24:27

It was a learning process, I would say. Like we we I was primarily like writing it, but we we worked on the story together. So in the process of like writing it initially, it was really hard because I was a new writer and and we have this like personal relationship, and then I would take the feedback really personally, and then we'd fight and we'd go in separate rooms, and then we'd and it was something of navigating that all along the process of like Andy telling Andy had to do like make it happen, and I would write something, and he'd be like, That can't happen. And I'd be like, But I'm attached to it. Um, the biggest one is is some of the song Moon Rivers in the movie. And Andy was like, You need to write a new put a new song in there, and I was like, Absolutely not, and I'd stomp in the room and shut slam the door. I'd be like, There's no other song.

David: 25:09

Is that because it was expensive?

SPEAKER_03: 25:10

Yeah, is that why? Yeah, yeah. It's great, right? Moon River's great. And so it was, you know, it was very much uh they can't. I think they originally came back to us and they were like, Yeah, you can have it for$200,000. And I'm like, okay, well, that's not a reality. Um that's not gonna happen. And then luckily, our we it's in the movie. Our music super, it's it's short though. It's like it has to be under a minute, and so we got that lower. And so uh, and then it was our music supervisor. Thank God, she worked on Stranger Things, and so like she had all this like Netflix money that she was throwing people. So we our mu they like negotiate it and we got way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way cheaper. So, but it was during that time. I remember Danny just was sobbing when I was like, we can't have Moon River. Sorry, baby, like you know, it's just not gonna happen. And then we got it. So kudos to our music suit for that. Um made it work, yeah.

Gavin: 26:01

I'm dying to know. Do you remember how much you got it for? Tell us.

SPEAKER_03: 26:05

It was um twenty two thousand dollars.

David: 26:11

Let's do it, Gavin. Let's have Moon River on this episode. Yeah, we can afford that. We can afford that.

SPEAKER_03: 26:16

And for like six seconds of music. And Moon River was probably the it is, I think, the most expensive line item in the entire movie.

David: 26:26

Was that like but totally worth it, Danny?

SPEAKER_03: 26:29

Yeah, totally worth it, Danny.

David: 26:31

It was it's hard to divorce yourself from those, like those are those are those little magical moments when you're writing a movie that like are so hard. I mean, you have to kill your darlings, right? But sometimes those, because you use it as I wouldn't say a metaphor, but it's like a through line in the movie. It's sung multiple times by multiple people, different things. And so you just like you're like, if that goes away, then what do I you know I mean? It's like what do I have? So I I get both of your sides, like the like we can't afford$200,000, and also like, but oh my god.

SPEAKER_03: 26:58

But there was also yeah, there was also like there's a moment right in the movie where they go to this like shitty motel, and they're supposed to be going to uh like a very nice Airbnb. And when we were when we were like figuring out how filming, I was like, well, we can't afford a nice Airbnb up in up in Arrowhead or something. Like, I can't. I was like, we need to think of something creative, and so we made it a shitty motel, and like Danny threw in like a bed bugs joke, and why that's why we're there, you know. So it's just you know, it's independent filmmaking, it's like we're you know, it's tough.

SPEAKER_01: 27:28

It's I really did watching Andy like direct, I think really helped me recognize all the things that he was facing, and it and it became I I'm I would think if we were to do this over or do this again with another movie, I would have a different perspective. And I think we have kind of ironed out some of it, but I would attack like I would tackle some of these challenges like except with excitement to be like, okay, we can write ourselves out of the problem now. This was something I had like held on to for I mean I wrote the first draft of it in like 2017, so it'd been like with me for years and years and years, and so it was really hard to let some things go. But now I think I it I wouldn't be so quite so attached to whatever we were working on. But that it was crying.

SPEAKER_03: 28:10

Less crying, babe. You hope. Less crying? Yeah.

Gavin: 28:13

Well, that all begs the question too. I mean, making uh independent films, and now obviously you next will be huge, massive feature films. Um, whether you work together or not, um, all of this takes improvisation and flexibility and sleep deprivation and uh meetings on the fly and taking generals, etc. How do you do that with a small child?

SPEAKER_03: 28:36

I mean, I have a great therapist. Um I it is, I mean, we are like it is it is definitely we have a partnership, and there are like definitely times that I have to like lean on Danny to to be more of like the parent that can help uh Florence and because I'm not gonna be home until this time on this date. You know what I mean? Um so I don't it's it's like still like a work we haven't like figured it out 100%, especially now that we've hit the like terrible twos. Uh that's been like a litter, you know, it's been hard. It's a night little bit of a nightmare. Um, you know, great 70% of the time. The other 30%, it's like watch out. She is she has an opinion and she'll let you know. And uh, you know, um, but yeah, I don't know. Daniel also, I'm we have great child care providers.

Gavin: 29:29

So that's that's good. Yes, that's yes, good acknowledgement there. Shout out for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 29:34

She's a dickhead, yes.

David: 29:35

So isn't it amazing how like this little thing that you have raised and protected and and coddled and hugged and kissed and fed and wiped her butthole and all the things can look at you with such disgust and disdain in her eyes because you served her the pancakes that she asked for. Yeah, like her it is fucking baffling. You're like, I I I could throw you in the river right now. Yeah, what are you doing? Why are you told like what and then she just gives no fucks, right? I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03: 30:05

Yes. Yeah. We uh I think that hits hard that hits me harder than it does Danny for sure. I think that it's like uh I I I don't like get personally offended by it, but it is like depressing, right? Like if she is in this like terrible mood and it's like, well, I only have a limited amount of time to spend with you. Like, I wish we were like having fun the next hour, and instead it's like, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 30:27

Yeah, I think I'm a little more empathetic to when she's having a hard time. I'll just be like, oh, she's having a tough time. And Andy will be like, she's being an asshole. Yeah. I don't really like her right now, and you know, you'll need a break.

David: 30:38

Yeah, but you know what? That balance, that balance is healthy because sometimes you know, parenting is this has been said many times before, parenting is such a fucking relay race. Yeah. And sometimes you just don't have it in you, and your partner does, and you're just like, take it, because I'm gonna call it an asshole, and I need and and then you recharge and then you come back, and then you're you give them the love or whatever. But I my my poor husband is is you, Danny, where he's like, Well, you know, she's she's you know struggling and let's get to her level, whatever. I'm like, fuck her. I get what I mean. Like, I just I get so so so frustrated, especially like I I am way too sensitive. So, like, you know, which is you know, we're talking about like notes and and changes to movies, like as artists, man, you get a the smallest note. Can you have this character move come in from the kitchen instead of the dining room? And you're like, well, I guess I can't do anything, right? You're like, I guess I'm the worst at everything. But my son last night I was putting him to bed and we were in the bathroom, and I told him to brush his teeth, which obviously was the worst thing I could have ever done. And uh he says, I don't even like you. And I remember thinking, well, then fuck you. And I didn't, I didn't talk to him the rest of the time we were in the bathroom.

Gavin: 31:40

Because who, because who is the juvenile in this story?

David: 31:44

Absolutely you. I'm 44, and this four-year-old just hurt my feelings. And you're gonna give him the silent treatment. I'm gonna give him the silent treatment. And so we go into his bedroom to read books, and he can tell. He's like, he's like, he goes, I'm sorry, daddy. I was like, okay, you know, you hurt my feelings, but everything's okay. And I remember thinking, yeah, yeah, I just I just out negotiated the terrorists. And I'm like, yeah. Yeah, that's true. But I totally he said I don't even like you just because he was trying it on. Because he's just being a dick. And he was like, you know, but I was I was like, that that hurts, bud. Yeah, that hurts. Yeah. Fucking assholes. Why do we even do it?

Gavin: 32:14

So you both traveled to Ireland with a two-year-old. Yeah. Why? Why?

SPEAKER_03: 32:23

Lesbians. Lesbians, that's why. Oh, see, you know what? They are the source of all the problems, the lesbians. Our lesbian friends, who I've been friends with for or we've been friends with for uh over a decade, got married in Ireland two weeks ago. They lived down the street from us, so we flew around the world to celebrate them. You know, um, yeah, it was uh it was not something that I was a huge fan of.

SPEAKER_01: 32:48

Uh when we planned it. We were like, oh, she'll be great.

David: 32:54

She'll run through the fields of clover and a little sun dress with the with the sun kind of getting a little bit of yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01: 33:00

Which we did do, which we did do.

SPEAKER_03: 33:02

A little lens flare moment. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Uh no, but it was just an uh I mean we had traveled with her a lot. Our family's in Michigan, so we go back to Michigan often. And I have like, we have a ton of siblings with kids there and all that sort of stuff. So we travel a lot on planes, and we also like had been to Australia uh with her for a film festival. Um, you know, and so but it's also it's like that's was work, and so we, you know, she was still okay, but yeah, she I mean, now that she's hit the terrible twos, the flight was like a nightmare. It was you know, getting her on that time, screaming in the hotel, you know, not wanting to some dark nights. Dark nights the first couple, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:42

Well, dark night of the soul, yeah.

Gavin: 33:44

Well, what was the best and the worst of that trip with her?

SPEAKER_01: 33:48

The worst was the first night where she didn't sleep on the plane on the way over. When she fell asleep at 8 p.m., we were like, oh, thank goodness, she's so tired, she's gonna sleep all night. Woke up at midnight, ready to go, did not want, was up from midnight until 7 a.m. Oh wow my king. I was trying to get her to sleep, watching and we're stuck in this little hotel room. It was truly a harrowing, harrowing night. And it was like, you know, we did pretty good about like doing the relay race, like, okay, I've reached my limit with her, you take her, and I need to go recharge for a minute. And then there was some point at like 4 a.m. when I think that we were both like had had it.

SPEAKER_03: 34:24

Like I was looking at flights back to the US. Um like I was like, I was so over it. I was like, this is the worst mistake we could have ever made in our lives to keep our marriage together. We need to fly back to LA tomorrow and like screw the wedding. Like we just agree this is terrible, and then you know, I don't know, I fell asleep or something, and then it was fine.

SPEAKER_01: 34:46

Um the best we actually did. I I think like there was like a really day a day when we just went on a walk and we found like a literal field of clover, and we were like pulling around in it. We got great photos, she was so happy picking flowers. It was just like a it wasn't even like a special, and that's what kind of we the takeaway was we were like, okay, we don't need to travel with her because she didn't care about any of like the touristy things we could have done. She really just had the best time when we were like went to a playground, found that clover field, run her, ran around in it, and yeah, it was tour tourism is pointless with a child, they just want a pool and maybe a field to walk in.

SPEAKER_03: 35:19

Yeah, I will say it hurt more. My parents were supposed to go with us. So my parents were my mom got like this tooth infection, so they had to bail, she's fine. But like, so we had Danny and I were like, we had planned some nights out, and we were gonna go. I had we had our one of our college friends lives in Dublin, so we were gonna go hit it hard, you know. With we had a built-in babysitter for a few nights at the wedding, so that it made it just like extra kind of like it just stung because we were like, oh, like, you know, we didn't have that help that we had hoped for, you know, for the trip that we were balancing. So, you know, it was fine. We won't be getting on no international flights with her until I don't know, later on.

David: 35:59

So not as yeah, yeah. I think the lesson, I think the lesson here is that like never trust a lesbian. No, you cannot trust them. You can't, you shouldn't trust them, and you should not witness their their commitments to each other. Um, truly, but the the thing it's so hard to explain to kids at that age and when you're on a plane is that like we there are there's not an option to leave this plane right now. Like they can't they cannot fathom that there's not an option, right? Like my daughter and kid, my son, they both have flown quite a bit, but they still struggle with like I don't want I want to get off. I'm like, babe, we're 33,000 feet in the sky. Yeah, where do you think we're gonna go? And they're like, but I want to get off. And yeah, traveling to Ireland, I I cannot imagine.

SPEAKER_03: 36:40

No, no, it was wrong.

David: 36:43

So you, your daughter, does she think that her dads are cool Hollywood types, or are you just kind of the annoying person who lives in her house?

SPEAKER_01: 36:52

I think I think we're the annoying people who live in her house. We we were trying to tell her actually the other day, we're like, you know, the movie's dedicated to you have a movie that's for you. She was not interested, she didn't really care.

Gavin: 37:03

She's like, is Bluey in it? She does make a blue too.

SPEAKER_03: 37:06

She is she does? She does. So she is. There's like a scene when uh Nico is in the um, where is it? It's like the IBF clinic or something. He's gonna go jerk off in a in a cup. And um before that, yeah, spoiler that, but yeah. Before that, though, they they're talking about, oh, about all the the influencer gay dads, and then they cut it cuts to a shot of a computer screen, and we see uh Florence's is like a hipster baby, you know. So the IVF doctor's like, look, you can have a fun hipster baby type of thing.

David: 37:36

So we got like hipster access. Yes, the designer baby. Yeah, so we put that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 37:40

So that was we took that photo, you know, after the uh, you know, she was born.

David: 37:45

In post. In post. In post. Well, that's it's so funny because that that is partly why I started this show. Was that my only representation of gay dads was that pretty designer baby, yeah, overly exposed, walking along the surf in their white flannel button-downs and their shoes.

Gavin: 38:06

Or skipping through a field of clover in Ireland.

David: 38:08

Clovers with Lins Flair in Ireland. Like that was my that was to me, it was like if you're gonna be a gay dad, this is it. And then when I became a dad, I was like, where's my lens flare? I don't have any of that. I'm just covered in puke and regret. What is happening here? Um, yeah, no, I I uh it that scene, by the way, in the movie, very funny. And also, I think you had said real question mark? Yeah tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03: 38:32

Yeah, that yeah, that scene. So he goes in to like check his like sperm count or something, right, in the movie. And so uh it's taken from like my real life experience when I went to go and like make a baby. Do the deed, do the deed. We're familiar, where it was just like, you know, you go into this, like kind of or at least for us, he like kind of went into like this gross room. They give you like a, you know, I'm sure there's a medical term, but in the movie we say it's a puppy pad, you know, you sit on this pad, then there's like an old V VCR with porn. Yes, like we had literally, it was like, you know, uh it was domestic or Asian, you know, and the lady was like, you know, gave us a remote. She's like, there's gay in bold, you know, so go for it or whatever. Uh and then yeah, there was like the bathroom was like right next to the donation room, and so someone just had like explosive diarrhea the whole time, you know. And I'm like sitting in there so romantic. I went with Danny, but and Danny is and Danny, you went first, but like Danny was then he went out in the room and he was like five feet away.

SPEAKER_00: 39:35

It was just like a you know, it was not a it didn't take so long, and I heard I heard someone closed door, and I was like, oh no.

SPEAKER_03: 39:42

Yeah, it's just like it's it's obviously it's so much easier than giving birth, right? Like it is not like a challenge, yeah. Yeah, it's more of like a comedic thing, you know, that we have to go through. And it's obviously it's not hard to do it. So, you know, but yeah, we took that was a scene that it was not in the movie originally, and then when that happened, uh to Me to us, I was like, oh, this is like a funny thing that's got to go in, you know. So uh and and uh Nico also was like kind of going through like IBF. Uh I don't know if they did IBF or the other one, but it was no, I it was I guess it was IBF. Um, but it was like uh he also was kind of going through similar things, so it was a funny thing between both of us that we had to shoot that.

David: 40:20

So there is nothing less sexy than that event. Like that is like the the unsexiest thing I think I've ever done. But you know what?

Gavin: 40:29

We all still rise to the occasion because like whatever.

David: 40:34

Wait, Gabe, do you know you probably haven't listened to this episode, but many, many episodes ago, Gavin told us a story about when he did that, they lost his sperm and he had to go again. And and who who has the bat who has Gavin's sperm? Yeah, quite a few people in the New York City area.

Gavin: 40:50

But um go back to episode 15 or so, and uh please go mind that.

David: 40:55

So you guys are now parents and you're filmmakers. So my question to you is the question I end every uh interview with is what is your favorite part about being a dad's? And what is your least favorite part about being dads?

SPEAKER_01: 41:09

I'd say my favorite part is especially now that she's like talking a ton, is like hearing her thoughts and like what she's observing and having her share those observations with me and like what she the things that she remembers and she chooses to like tell me at random times. I just like love seeing her little brain work and her become like a little person. It's really rewarding that like all the work we put in is like creating this special little human. Um, so that's my nice answer. My my thing I don't like is bedtime routine. I like every night when I'm like I'm gonna have to then like coerce her to brush her teeth and then coerce her away from the bathroom to go read, and then I have to coerce her not to read 60 books, we can only read three books, and then we have to coerce her into the bedroom and then into her bed, and like the whole every like step of the way, I'm like, it is just such a all those transitions, there's so many transitions, and the toddlers are she's gonna push back against every one of those transitions, and hell when it turns like five o'clock and we start dinner. I'm like, here it goes. Two hours of transitions.

David: 42:10

Every one of them is a complete surprise to her. You're like, babe, this happens every single fucking night. Like everyone is like I have to brush my teeth now.

SPEAKER_03: 42:18

Literally, no, yeah. We've gotten to that point, it's like blow drying her hair, still every cries every time, and it's like, baby, it's coming. And then we turn off the blow dryer, and she's upset that her hair's wet. And I'm like, well, I don't know what you're gonna do. Like, I'm trying to reason with this terrorist, seriously.

Gavin: 42:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tough to be a two-year-old for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 42:36

Yeah, what about you, Andy? Uh, I think my my favorite part is like this like built-in like best friend, you know? Like it is just like there's this new person in your life that you can, you know, share your own life and your own experiences with them. And then you're also you, it's just like it's just it's this weird thing where you're, you know, I think a fuck a couple times Danny and I have like looked at Florence or I've looked at Florence and I'm like, what are you doing here? Like this is so like you haven't left yet. You know what I mean? Like it's not this is somebody who is in our life and will be present, you know, hopefully until you know the day that I die, right? That's the the hope. So it's just like, you know, while it is very hard um, you know, to be a parent, it's very it's still like super rewarding and it's so you know, it's so meaningful that she is now in our lives. And then it's also you know, great to see, you know, her with Danny and how she interacts with Danny and all that kind of stuff. So really great. Uh and then my like least favorite part, um, you know, is I guess like I don't know, this sounds this is not funny. It's like it's like the worry, right? That like something, you know, that we are now the protector of of her. So that's always like I've got I have anxiety and all that kind of stuff. And so like that's a you know, and my it's not uh my dad has it, and I see how it affects my dad with all of his children, and I'm like, that is now me, right? And so that is that feeling of fear or whatever that is, is never gonna go away. Nope.

Gavin: 44:11

Um, just you wait, it just gets worse, right? Yeah, yeah. So, you know. Well then hey, hey, how about on a lighter note? I'm curious. Here's a segment that I'm now starting to name here, David.

SPEAKER_03: 44:22

Make note is I'll never forget the time when I will never forget the time when she was so sick for a few days, she like really hadn't eaten. This was maybe like nine months ago for like a few days, and then all of a sudden she ate the most pasta I've ever seen her eat. Like, like a more than a normal like adult man, and then one hour later she threw that shit up. Yes, she did. Like in movie projectile vomit. Like I had I was like, there's a special effects guy in here sending this puke out.

David: 45:02

It was like You're like, our plumbing doesn't have this kind of pressure. What is happening?

SPEAKER_03: 45:06

All over, all over both of us, and then the dog went and ate it all up before we cleaned it up.

SPEAKER_01: 45:14

It was it was I was getting like a rare night away on my own. So I was like getting updates. I was in a movie, I was getting updates of this like terror that was happening at home, and I came home and and Andy and Florence both just looked traumatized. They were like sitting on the couch. But thanks to the dog, it was already cleaned up, huh?

SPEAKER_03: 45:32

Oh god. Well, I had just at that point, I had rolled, I mean, I like you know, took her in the shower and held her to get it off, and then I like took my clothes off, put new clothes on, put her in her crib, and then I rolled that after the dog had eaten all that pasta up. I just rolled that carpet up and I put it outside from my husband when he got home. I was like, baby, this is for you. You could figure out what to do with this while you were at the movie or whatever, you know.

David: 45:55

At that point, you just have to move. You just have to move at that point because there's no recovering from that.

SPEAKER_01: 46:00

Danny, what about you? I mean, I was trying to think of a good one, but the one that comes to mind is also a a uh harrowing night. You know, we love those. Spill it, girl. I don't know if at the time when Andy, I had to take Andy to the emergency room because he was having stomach issues, but we had Florence, so I had to drop him off. I went home, put Florence to bed, and then waited for Andy to text me that he was done at the emergency room. While he was at the emergency room, I started to feel ill. I had to wake up Florence, put him in the car to go pick her up. I'm getting sick in the car right before I get in the car on the way to the emergency room. Andy and I are both then, I pick him up, we're driving home, we're both sick. We have, but I Florence also, I think we all have norovirus. Yeah, yeah. We have one bathroom, and so we're taking Florence's wide awake, not going to sleep. We're both the sickest we've ever probably felt in our lives, taking turns running between Florence's room and the bathroom to try to entertain her, keep her that was huge.

SPEAKER_03: 46:56

I remember you, I got into the car with the puke bag provided by the hospital, and you were driving because I was on major morphine, and you had thrown up like before that, before you got in the car, because remember you ruined the cruise, and I was as we he was driving, I was holding the puke bag as he was puking, as I was like on the morphine. It was the worst I've like never been that. I mean, I like went, I hadn't eaten in like two. I got meat first, and I hadn't eaten in like two days, and I hadn't couldn't keep any liquids down. So I like went to the ER to get fluids and stuff, but yeah, it was terrible. Oh my god.

David: 47:28

But you but you know what? You were snatched. Oh, did you look cute? You were like, Oh, I don't know, norovirus. This is cute.

Gavin: 47:36

Also, I see a short film in the making of just basic boy humor, and I want to see that movie.

David: 47:43

I mean, that that's the opening, what child's play or whatever that movie was, where just like the kid gets sick on the ride, which gets the next person sick, which gets the next person sick. Oh man. Well, guys, thank you so much for demeaning yourselves by being on our stupid little podcast. Um, the movie is called The Matachine Family. It is now out. You can download it, you can buy it, you can rent it on Apple TV and all kinds of streamers. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Thank you for having us. So, my something great this week is TikTok as usual. Um, there is a creator, his name is Ryan Hale, and I don't know if you've seen him yet or not, but he is this probably 24-year-old white guy, very straight, very kind of like backwards baseball cap kind of table. But he speaks, and he's just like looks like a normal guy, and he goes like on Omegle and all these like stranger chat uh platforms, but he speaks like 10 languages, and a lot of them are like Asian languages. So he speaks not only like Cantonese and Mandarin, but he speaks like and and we're talking fluently, uh Korean and like all these like regional uh dialects. He speaks Taiwanese, he speaks so many fucking languages. So he goes on these like video chat services and he'll you know pair with somebody from that country and they'll be talking in English or whatever, and then he will be like, Oh yeah, my name is Ryan, and this is what I do, or whatever, and then then they'll ask a question and he'll answer in their language, so like let's say Taiwanese, and their fucking brains explode, and it is so fun to watch. But my favorite part about it is that he's it's usually women he's talking to and women his age, and there's this like flirtation back and forth of like them going back and forth between, I don't know, Russian and English or whatever. And these girls are just so enamored. A, he's cute, he's cute, but B, that that he speaks their language fluently. And it is this love story I never thought I needed, but it is so fun to watch these people and me think, oh God, please get together one day with this girl from you know rural China or whatever. So by something great, Ryan Hale on TikTok.

Gavin: 49:43

That's really awesome, and it also makes me feel really untalented that I could never possibly imagine doing something like that. I'm amazed by people who seem to have these linguistic abilities to just absorb languages, not in a way that actors will say, you know, I just kind of absorb accents wherever I go. So I just I can't help it. I just start speaking with an English accent all the time. And you're like, oh, Jesus. But anyway, those people are seriously talented. You know, my something great. It's funny that you say this. We are so Gen Z or whatever it is. Uh, I have a Snapchat something great. Oh. I have been recently snapping with my daughter to basically inject myself in her life because she doesn't want to hug me or even look at me anymore. So now I snap with her a little bit. And, you know, rabbit holes everywhere. I don't really understand, frankly, the difference between Instagram reels, snap reels, and TikTok. Frankly, it's all just little videos that people do. But this one dude I stumbled upon, and I don't know how the algorithm found me. His I guess his handle, I think, is SB Mowing. Oh, and SB mowing is huge.

David: 50:47

I love SB Mowing. Oh, really? Oh, well, yeah, I watch them on TikTok all the time. Yes. Oh. Please keep going. I love SB Mowing.

Gavin: 50:54

Okay, well, SB Mowing, I mean, it's amazing, and it's absolutely a rabbit hole of just watching this dude go to abandoned houses and do all of their yard work for them. And it's amazing. But what's funny to me, you saying that, one, clearly I don't spend enough time on TikTok, who does? But he always says, please like and share and whatever, and follow me on Snapchat because if you support the work I'm doing, which first of all, he doesn't seem to be asking for money, though it sounds like he's a nonprofit and he needs it. And but B, or whatever, he um he clearly creates his content specifically for Snapchat and TikTok and Instagram, which is a ton of work, but good for him. It's fascinating. I love it.

David: 51:31

It's it's I feel like it it pleases the part of my brain that maybe other people, you know, they have those like little sand gardens where they're just like kind of zen out and they draw it. It's the same thing. You're just watching at like 10x speed somebody take this like overgrown mess and just make it beautiful. And he's fantastic. And he's so smart, businessman, too. Like he's doing all of this for free, but he's making thousands of dollars off of each of these. So it's a perfect, yeah, it's a perfect marriage.

Gavin: 51:57

Yeah, so cool. And that's our show. If you have any comments, suggestions, or general compliments, you can email us at gatriarchspodcast at gmail.com.

David: 52:07

Or you can DM us on Instagram. We are at Gatriarchspodcast. On the internet, David is at DavidFm Bond Everywhere, and Gavin is at GavinLodge on SB Mowing.

Gavin: 52:16

Please leave us a glowing five star review wherever you get your podcasts.

David: 52:21

Thanks, and we'll snap you next time on another episode of Gatriarchs.