In this interview new comedian Reece Kidd interviews Elf Lyons. Elf is an award winning comic, actor and writer. Her awards for her work have included:
-The Edinburgh Comedy Award for Best Show at the Edinburgh Fringe,
-The Malcolm Hardee Award for Comic Originality,
-TheBritish Comedy Guide's Comedians Choice Award and Fringe World Perth's Best Comedy Show.
-Adelaide Fringe's Pick of the Fringe 2018
I-n 2020 her show Unlikely Darlings with Helen Duff was one of The Telegraphs 50 Best Cultural Moments of the year.
She currently leads the Soho Theatre's Labs + course for emerging artists alongside directing artists in the UK and abroad.
Since January 2022, Elf has created and performed three different one hour comedy shows - each touring separately around the UK and internationally from 2023 onwards.
HEIST an absurdist comedy show conducted entirely in BSL with Duffy; TALK DIRTY - a one hour straight stand-up show about filth.
RAVEN - her five star mad-cap comedy horror show.
You can listen to her hit podcast Elfonomics where she discusses economics with her dad on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Elf discusses her multiple Edinburgh shows. Her role in the Misandrist. Her early days. The importance of a supportive family. How to build your own show. How she's improved over time and her upcoming work.
Follow Elf on Twitter at @elf_lyons
Follow Elf on Instagram at @elflyons
Follow Kidding on social media for clips, live event info and behind the scenes
Kidding Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kiddingpodcast/
Kidding Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kiddingpodcast
Kidding Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU49TsZVIbI7vak-EKOBSbA
Follow Reece:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reecek1dd/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@reecekidd
In this interview new comedian Reece Kidd interviews Elf Lyons. Elf is an award winning comic, actor and writer. Her awards for her work have included:
-The Edinburgh Comedy Award for Best Show at the Edinburgh Fringe,
-The Malcolm Hardee Award for Comic Originality,
-TheBritish Comedy Guide's Comedians Choice Award and Fringe World Perth's Best Comedy Show.
-Adelaide Fringe's Pick of the Fringe 2018
I-n 2020 her show Unlikely Darlings with Helen Duff was one of The Telegraphs 50 Best Cultural Moments of the year.
She currently leads the Soho Theatre's Labs + course for emerging artists alongside directing artists in the UK and abroad.
Since January 2022, Elf has created and performed three different one hour comedy shows - each touring separately around the UK and internationally from 2023 onwards.
HEIST an absurdist comedy show conducted entirely in BSL with Duffy; TALK DIRTY - a one hour straight stand-up show about filth.
RAVEN - her five star mad-cap comedy horror show.
You can listen to her hit podcast Elfonomics where she discusses economics with her dad on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Elf discusses her multiple Edinburgh shows. Her role in the Misandrist. Her early days. The importance of a supportive family. How to build your own show. How she's improved over time and her upcoming work.
Follow Elf on Twitter at @elf_lyons
Follow Elf on Instagram at @elflyons
Follow Kidding on social media for clips, live event info and behind the scenes
Kidding Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kiddingpodcast/
Kidding Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kiddingpodcast
Kidding Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU49TsZVIbI7vak-EKOBSbA
Follow Reece:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reecek1dd/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@reecekidd
Here with out lines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, thank you.
Speaker 2:Multiple shows in Edinburgh. You've done 12 or 13 shows in Edinburgh at the stage.
Speaker 1:Oh, i don't know if it's that many, i mean I'm only 31. But I mean I've done my. We could go through them, we could list them chronologically. That's what the chronologically But you know what, i bet you some people really I like really get off on telling people like all the stuff I've done in a day And I find that really I love it when someone tells me I love people and they make lists.
Speaker 2:Are you ready for the list that I have in my head then? Yeah, go, go for it So you went up when you were so you started comedy. You made the expression that you want to start comedy when you were 16 to your parents. Yeah. And then the next year you went up to Edinburgh as a volunteer to understand the workings of Edinburgh. Yeah, based on your dad's advice.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Where does this all come from? We've been good at this. Or is this just guesswork? You've done research. Of course I've done research. Oh good, oh no, that is very good, you could tell, i used to be a teacher.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, okay, tell me more.
Speaker 1:Tell me about why you want to do this. Okay.
Speaker 2:Then you went to. You would take her to drama school.
Speaker 1:I went to Bristol Units who study drama Academic.
Speaker 2:And you were doing shows throughout that, but your first one was Brydon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, what was it? I mean, i'm going to be honest, i always wanted to be a comedian but I didn't really fit in with the Bristol comedy drama set Like I've really. I mean, i think in hindsight I look at that little person 18 to 21 and she was just, she was. you know, if I could travel back in time, i'd want to give her a cuddle and wipe all the makeup off And I'd be like right, we need some proper tights on you. This is not working. I didn't.
Speaker 1:I think my first show I didn't do till I was like 2012,. like one out was called Half Lines is a pervert. It was about me. I mean I'm yeah, and it was all about me just being a perv, but, like in a fun, it was going to be called feminist pervert. And then, and then I did a show called Being Barbarella, which was me sort of finding my feet more with my nerdy side and all the nerdy stuff, and I did it. And before the year before that I'd done a show called Underground Success, which was my love of the London underground, and obviously I took that to Scotland where it was really like, really relatable, what's your favourite line? Yeah, i did that. Yeah, at a time, what was my favourite line? I always loved the beauty of like the district and the Hammersmith and the circle and like how it was owned by different lines and the the sort of history and the economics of the city you could match through the commuter, like who was commuting at different periods of time. I found that really interesting, so I did that.
Speaker 1:I always made quite specific shows to do with niche things. Then I did a show about Barbarella, the cartoon in the book, the novel in the book, not the graphic novel and then the film. And then Pelican, which was about my relationship with my mum. then Swan, which was to do with Swan Lake and ballet. then Chiff Chaff, which was to do with economics. 2019 was Love Songs to Guinea Pigs, which was all about my spinal injury and my obsession with Guinea Pigs. Then 2020, i did Gorgon, a Horror Story. I mean, there's a. I mean.
Speaker 2:I think, world for 12.
Speaker 1:I mean yeah, no, And then that doesn't even count all the stuff that helped do. I did. I did loads of other stuff as well. Cool, that's insane. And then then I did Gorgon. Then I did Medusa as well in 2019 for the Nuffield Theatre, but that wasn't a fringe. I've always made live work. basically, i just like I like work, i like making shows.
Speaker 2:I've done loads of random stuff in between, here and there, i think the introduction was like I think we got there, I think we've been introduced. Oh, you also do the podcast with your dad.
Speaker 1:I do alphanomics, yeah, with my dad.
Speaker 2:I am excited to talk about it. I also got the fear to talk about the podcast because I did an introduction to microeconomics at university. I'm starting to shake. Thinking about it, i did not do well, so you can fill in the gaps on that one.
Speaker 1:Oh God, see how that goes.
Speaker 2:So let's bring it the whole way back. Was the first time you thought about comedy, when you said you wanted to be a comedian?
Speaker 1:Yeah, i was obsessed with DVDs, with comedy DVDs, and I used to at Christmas. I remember writing a list of all the DVDs and I'd go to Choices Film Store and rent them and just watch them. And I remember watching Joe Pascuali and Matt Leigh Evans like watching the most bizarre, you know, french and Saunders and all that stuff. I realised it stood out more as opposed to saying an actor. It was more also because I went to an old girl's school. It was probably quite provocative in some ways. I remember teachers thinking it was really bizarre, but that was what I especially my upbringing.
Speaker 1:I went to a very prolific, hard working boarding school where you were treated like a dress arse horse to jump through hoops And this expectation that you all got to become CEOs and founders of the new world. You too can run your own business and sell it for millions of pounds. And then I was like I want to be in communion, which everyone's like. You don't make any money from that. I can't. But it took me ages. I loved funny people but I didn't know how to be. I think there's a. You know, when you're a kid you're unintentionally funny And that's often what parents and adults love about you, especially the kids, and I'm sure we all know that like teenager or that 10 year old kid who makes everyone laugh and they're not aware of what makes them funny, but they're a funny kid. I think I was a bit like that And then going to university and stuff, i really felt so displaced, like I didn't really, like I wasn't funny, I wasn't in the funny crowd, i wasn't cool, like I wasn't one of those people at all.
Speaker 2:Was there a funny crowd in your university?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, well, my university, like you know, it was pretty. Our university, all the people who came out of Bristol who went on to make comedy have all gone to do incredibly well. Like the alumni from my year and the year above is like astoundingly like our years, smashed it. Everyone who everyone had their interest in you know directors, cinematographers, you know writers, et cetera. You know it was funny. Bloody hell, That's cool, wow. But I wasn't really. It took me a while to sort of, i think, embed myself in doing the weird And you realise you're not in that cool, that lovely thing. I always say this when I was teaching my students like the coolest place is where you are.
Speaker 1:I said when I taught like drama club and you get all the cool, eccentric, weird kids, like all the weird kids. And I'm like this is. This is the coolest place in the school right now is where we are.
Speaker 2:That's actually very nice, that's very good. And then, when did you do your first stand up comedy performance?
Speaker 1:16th of October 2008. Wow, yeah, i was 16. Yeah, 16.
Speaker 2:Where was that?
Speaker 1:Downstairs at the Kingshead.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's really good. John Kerns was on the bull as well.
Speaker 1:He was reading from the penguin packets, reading jokes, and on this was there was lots of comics actually. Finally, and I lasted, i think, two minutes, i was so nervous, i didn't know what I was doing. But you, i think you need to spend those first 100 gigs learning how to breathe, just being breathwork, learning how to just sit in it.
Speaker 2:I only learned when my diaphragm was like two years ago. So were you nervous? You were nervous before. Were you throwing? up already at this stage, is that still a thing that happens? Oh God.
Speaker 1:I still. I get a temperature every time I go to do a comedy gig, Like before a big no, that's not true Like before one hour show. I'll always get like this. God, I don't think. I actually don't think I can do this. I'm gonna have to pull it And then. And then you're like, oh no, no, it's fine, Home now.
Speaker 2:And do you remember what the material was for the first gig?
Speaker 1:It was to do with me being, you know, ugly and couldn't get a boyfriend, Like the routine that very much was encouraged on all girls of a certain age when you went into comedy like you're a woman of this age, we've got to talk about how difficult it is to find a boyfriend and, you know, you've got to make a joke about this and this and this. I don't think it was hugely. I've kept all my diaries of all my comedy material And it's really funny looking back on some of it and going I can make that funny. Now, That was never going to be funny. That's too sad, That's really funny. Ah, there's something you know analyzing, Because also your brain keeps changing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it must have been so plastic at that stage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like it's like a little, you know it's really sweet. It's really sweet And some of the stuff is also also because, you know, our understanding of things has changed so much. You know, i was chatting to another comic about this, about jokes that were like our understandings about gender identity were really different And going, wow, that joke is that joke couldn't exist now, not because it's offensive or anything, but just that world doesn't exist anymore And we wouldn't believe that joke. We're like in that moment of, i think, being a later in my early 20s and realizing jokes about me not being able to get a boyfriend didn't work anymore, because it wasn't true, because I was confident, like I'd found myself in some sort of way, i was a bit more embedded. And so me coming on and be like, oh yeah, i'm a bit insecure about this, this and this, the audience didn't quite, it didn't land. So I was like, how else can I be truthful?
Speaker 2:That's right, very profined.
Speaker 1:I love your laugh.
Speaker 2:It's wild, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I love it. It's great.
Speaker 2:Let's go, and I've had a few comments on I can't stop it and I'm having a good time else, so, unfortunately, you should never stop it.
Speaker 1:You should never censor who you are.
Speaker 2:But 16 to start comedy is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I mean 16 to start comedy if you were gigging regularly. But I mean I did a couple of gigs Like it wasn't. it wasn't enough, like it was. I tested the. it's a really cool thing to have done age 16 for sure And it was really cool that my dad drove me there and sat in the audience and then gave me feedback.
Speaker 2:Can you describe your dad? just for context.
Speaker 1:He's really, when you listen to him talk, he's got a really calm, soft demeanor. He's very warm. He's got a real like Winnie the Pooh vibe, i would say. And there's also like, incredibly passionate about economics and very like he's like me. We're very high, high achieving, we want to do it to the best and we both get fixated on specific things And if we're interested in that thing, we really only focus on that thing and then everything else sort of goes out the window. That's why we go on.
Speaker 2:That's right Cool. I listened to another interview with you about the Styrkel theme one and you were talking about how in your family they were very supportive of comedy, which is maybe not like normal. Yeah. But they were like you have to commit. There's no half measures or obviously a paraphrase, and what I think you said, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:My dad and I talk about this in a recent podcast. We did next an episode on alphanomics, about what artists can learn from football and the football model. But when I was a kid, i remember when I was like teens and early twenties and I wanted to be an actor and I wanted to be a comedian And but at the same time I was like, well, dad, i'm going to do this as well. I'm going to do this And I'd always. I was trying to stick my finger into so many pies And my dad said, if you want to do this, you do it and you focus on it. Like, you get you 10,000 hours in.
Speaker 1:David Beckham became the best footballer of his, you know, in his lifetime because he practiced his right foot and he practices left foot. That's what he did. He didn't decide to practice cricket as well. He didn't go. You know what I'm going to do? swimming and perfect my swimming ability. Like, yeah, you get strong in all areas, but you focus what do you want to do. You don't waste your energy doing stuff that isn't necessarily going to benefit, whatever that goal is. So that I found really useful.
Speaker 2:I love that David Beckham story, by the way, so I don't interrupt you, but I think that's a great story where he's outside doing KB opies and stuff. That's so good.
Speaker 1:And like and also I was really like my dad and again he always said and my mom said this as well you can have three careers in your lifetime. Our generation will have three careers. You don't just pick one thing and then that's it. Do you die? Unlike my dad's generation hit the generation before him. So that understanding that you have the time to become an expert And we, like my sister, was a horse rider, like a professional horse rider, for a period of time And one thing I learned and I hated horse, i hate horses.
Speaker 2:I'm really scared of them as well, so I'm not scared of them.
Speaker 1:I'm just allergic. I just don't have the time. I just I love them. I don't want to sit on your back, But I just probably doesn't want that Yeah just do your thing.
Speaker 1:But I would have to spend so many of my summer holidays at horse fairs and like farmyard festivals and what going to like horse, you know, horse competitions and on all the horse riders, the best horse riders, and especially if you go to the Olympics and watch the Olympics or watch the Olympic dress sales on cross country. They're not young. Horse riders are older because it takes ages to learn an animal to be an expert of being, to be the expert with this craft. And it's the same with comedy. It's not. It's a young person's game in terms of getting into it And at the beginning, just failing and failing and failing Like that's fun.
Speaker 1:You can do that in your 20, that you can do that. You can go out and get smashed every night And but to be a master of it it takes, it's going to take years. So I like that. Like I'm 31 and I feel very embedded in who I am as a comic. But it's going to take. He's good. You know, i'm gonna be even more brilliant when I'm 50 and Hopefully, if my brain keeps firing, even better at 64.
Speaker 2:Yes, very positive and excited way to look at it.
Speaker 1:Let me find out next year.
Speaker 2:But you stuff, but you. I remember watching a YouTube video and you were like actually doing a lot of gigs, you were running a night in this YouTube video, oh, Which one was this God? a night. It looked like a very fun night, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what the acts have come through that night as well, like Some of the lineups we'd have like one night where it was like Alex Edelman, lou Sanders, me, eric Lamper, you know just really cool, rosie Holt doing a spot, joss Norris, like really cool lineups of just really what you know the story beast And it was just the first Thursday of the month or something, for last Wednesday It was, you know one of those things and it was always raucous and fun. I remember one night the band the 1975, who I had, no idea.
Speaker 1:But they were just sat at the bar watching and I had no idea. But they were like these good-looking blokes It's almost like that's the 1975 and I was like who, i don't know, do they want a five? You know like really bizarre. You know fun lineups on.
Speaker 2:You decided just to run that to get what was. Why were you doing that? just for fun?
Speaker 1:Where's the other fun, to become better at understanding the art of comedy. You know it was a cool thing to run a gig. It was very different. I would run a gig again, potentially, but we'll be finding the right space and how you do it.
Speaker 2:Hmm, so you went from a few gigs when you were 17 then when did you start to get more like I need to gig all the time with comedy, or did you ever?
Speaker 1:Once, so did my masters. When I did my masters, i think around because I was based in London then And I was living with my nan, nanny squeak, in South London, in Elton, and it was just easier to commute and get from gigs to gigs and And I was running a gig around a comedy night at the bow bells in East London bow bow bells comedy Which jade atoms designed to the post for 20 quid. So funny, always funny. Little light overlaps.
Speaker 2:So did you finish the masters and you were like, not as into what were where you when the masters was finished?
Speaker 1:Um, i was so worried that I'm talking too much. It's all about you?
Speaker 2:Don't worry, i have nothing.
Speaker 1:I'll.
Speaker 2:I'll. I'll try to be a funny northern Irish quick occasionally, but I'm just trying to find out about you, so don't worry about that.
Speaker 1:This is interesting, cool, okay, i think I get. Really I hate. Do you know? it's that horrible thing when you listen back to yourself doing a podcast? I am, it was really fascinating. Actually, someone asked for some clips of me doing a podcast for me to sort of. You know when you pitch yourself forward for things or whatever. Oh, particular particular series were like we need to hear Elf on a couple of podcast episodes to see what she normally talks about. So I cut, selected a random Array of things and there was one podcast episode I hadn't heard since 2019 But I remember when it came out They were like this is a great episode, it's really really funny. And I listened to it 2019 and in hindsight, i was.
Speaker 1:I was really suffering with post traumatic stress After my spinal injury and I hadn't been particularly well and there'd been lots of stuff going on that year and that recording and I remember being But I was listening to it going I sound Mean like I sound. I wasn't mean to anyone in particular like. The podcast episode was about me being nasty, about You know these things. It's called desert island dicks. It's a great series, but it's about who would you want to die on a plane with you Or like who would you not want, who would be going down in this plane, and I, like selected the whole of serbetin And it was really based off particular like things that happened that week and it was so fascinating because I was listening to You suffer.
Speaker 1:It's only been about four years, but I listened. I go, wow, i sound really barbed in it and sharp and quite. I was like, oh, that doesn't feel like me. I'm listening to And so I always am aware. When you're, when you listen back, sometimes, especially when you give it a few months, you're like god, i sound, god, i'm self-involved, or god, i think I'm smarter than I am, or goodness you absolutely No, but it's funny, isn't it? Because you're constantly. I suppose that's the learning, i guess yeah, learning also.
Speaker 1:I think it's the horrible thing about being The risk with this job, or the moment you decide that your job is you and you are your brand Is there's a huge amount of self analysis which can be really fascinating And illuminating, but it can also encourage a really nasty form, a quite damaging form of narcissism, and you have to go. you know what I have to step away and set, and You aren't the most fascinating creature of the world at all, so let's just Well, i feel like a cycle then, because I've been researching your life for the last few days, so Sorry, to feed the narcissism.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like I don't get any narcissistic vibes off you at all. I'm also a terrible judge of character, so well, you know what I mean sometimes. Yeah, but I think it's good. I don't think I am.
Speaker 1:But I think it's important to be like my biggest fear. When I talk to my therapist, i'm worried, i'm a narcissist. She's like we've gone Through this actually quite a few times that if you're, you're wearing that and I'm like. I came in the other day and I was like I think I'm, i think I might be a son of a. She was like, well, and I explained the thing to her and she was just like, if anything, that's definitely not so Perfect behavior. That just sounds quite practical. And I was like, oh okay, my good.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the elf lines, a comedy success podcast. Well, no, i think that's probably like the best defense mechanism is being aware of it. Like I think I'll be much more unhealthy. It'd be like me. No, what, what are you talking about? Yeah, was your like being self-indulgent? What, what are you talking about? Yeah was your like being self out like critical and yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:Benji Waterstones is a fantastic, a beautiful human being and I taught him. He did the soho labs comedy, plus course, which I taught last term, and he was I really you can tell also I did a masters, because anytime I mention someone, i have to mention their name.
Speaker 3:It's like, feel like, it's like It is like a footnote.
Speaker 1:It's me and my dad both do it and it's really funny and it's just like you want to make sure that the facts are really clear. But we were working together And he's taking a show to Edinburgh, um, about his job as an NHS psychiatrist. I'm really fascinating, really provocative, and it's based off a book He's just about to publish and we're talking about What it means to exist. You know, really deep, as it always is, and you're working with another comic and developing work and I've been reading loads about humanism and Because it's just really fascinating and this idea of what it means when people say they're trying to be happy And I, what does that mean? But you want to find Meaning in your life and do something that causes joy to others and that's sort of how I try and live.
Speaker 1:Talk about the plastic bag and it hit me like a plastic bag Takes 1000 years to decay And that's going to outlive me, my grandchildren or grandchildren's grandchildren and we just like, in a second we just pay 5p for something like that and we carry them all around our house. There are things that are going to last longer than our own skin and bones buried in the ground and I find that really, and I it was actually really freeing, because there is that thing, even though you know that you're doing okay And you're only doing what you can, and then you get told, oh yeah, you haven't been asked to accept it onto this, or or you have, and you're like suddenly you're the big, big, big balls Just looking at that plastic bag and going, oh yeah it's gonna win.
Speaker 1:And it's also like with money. I find like money is such a big thing And you know, rosie Holt said this, um, who's a really brilliant human being but she told me once I was really she went elf you've had to pay the incompetence tax, which I really loved, because I'd lost my Rail card and it meant I had to pay a fine and an extra fee on a train ticket. And I was just like She was, like you had to pay the incompetence tax and you don't know when you're gonna have to pay it, but you have to pay the incompetence tax sometimes, and that I found that a really much more manageable way of dealing with that experience by going this is something outside of my control by the gods, um.
Speaker 2:What's it talking about? store says them on plastic bags, i think.
Speaker 1:The thing about money going. I just don't. I've not seen money in such like it's in my account or it's out of my account, or I tap and it's diss, but I never. It's never there like I don't. I just find it really hard to get when someone's like I didn't get the job and I've lost down 12 grand or whatever it is And I'm like you know for an andra or something. I mean I'm always stressed about money is, is everyone I like. I'm like, well, you have it, but like all the time I'm looking at the plastic bag going, nobody's gonna. It's arguably better to die in debt. Then it is to die in profit, based on how much of a Fuck over it causes everyone else afterwards.
Speaker 2:That's the way to go. Yeah, just massive overdrafts. Yeah. I'm gonna have a plastic bag in my room. I think that that's just gonna put on a wall The only piece of art I have. Yeah. Yeah, i feel really under Um under prepare, because I am not in any way arty. I don't identify as arty and my first play was the wonderful play on the weekend. I'm gonna butcher the name, miss andrist.
Speaker 1:No, you said it perfectly by the wonderful Lisa carl. Yeah, lisa, yeah, she did write it.
Speaker 2:She's incredible and you were amazing in it. Thank, you I have only seen one play, so you are technically My favorite play.
Speaker 1:So It's like really that you've never seen a play before.
Speaker 2:I've seen lots of musical theater.
Speaker 1:Well, that's like a more commercial, i guess, but you know, but it's still the same. It's all like It's a different style, but it's still like it's theater and it's a play, but it's got music in it And but I really thought I would need the constant songs to like maintain my focus.
Speaker 2:Because I went in I guess I was just being like, oh, stand-up comedies, the thing they're not gonna make me laugh. And then I had way more fun at that show than I have at any comedy show.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow. Yeah that really means a lot, that you came to see it, of course I think yeah, it's a really. It's really fascinating, like I do, and it's so such an honor to be. That sounds really wanky, but I've never done. I've never acted in a play Like, i've never acted in something that and this sounds even more wanky that I haven't made myself because there's, you know, that's always the smartest way to do it. I think, if anyone make it, do it, put it on, fund it yourself. Just do it on your turn.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for saying that. That is my big belief as well. The ownership sort of thing, because I think a lot of people are waiting for permission.
Speaker 1:No, do it, Do yourself, do it yourself. Um, i think the new general, like generation z, are much better at it Of that sense of self made getting on it because suddenly they all, technologically, they're all much more fluent and having access to sharing their world and their voice in a way that I think Our generation, the generations before, weren't and that was why you said a bigger class divide. In many ways, because certain people had access to having their voice and others didn't.
Speaker 1:I wonder, i don't know what the, what the studies show, what the data is, but whatever you said is now my new study and my data, my data.
Speaker 2:I don't know how we say Oh, there you go, you've got a new one, nice accent.
Speaker 1:You didn't say you didn't have it. I need to try. I can't do it.
Speaker 2:So why did you end up? Why did you agree to be an actor I got.
Speaker 1:I got cast, they asked me for to audition and I auditioned and it was just really And I just left teaching, secondary school teaching. So I was really. I had no idea what was going to happen. I had that fear that nothing was going to happen. It would have been the biggest regret to leave teaching and then, then it happened.
Speaker 1:It was really frightening and I mean I cried loads throughout the rehearsal process because I would have Imposter syndrome. But then you remind yourself imposter syndrome is just You being a stranger to something. It's not you being, it's not you breaking into a house that you don't belong and it's just You walking into, being invited into a space We don't know anyone yet and it's up to you and other people to You know. I'm not quite sure how to say it, but Yeah, it's just you're learning something. So allow yourself to be honest with people that you're learning and that you're going to make mistakes. And I think the play is really provocative and I think it's a play that in 10, 15 years time will be really Celebrated and will be quite cults. I really do believe that and it's fascinating how it is split people down the middle and our audiences so far, and it is brought out a different side of conservative behavior from audience members that you would assume wouldn't be conservative but are, because we're so much more accepting of violence than sex on stage. So, like in the Miss Andrews, we don't kiss actually we never kiss throughout the play. We have our hoes on the entire time. We don't actually touch, like, have physical touch. In that way The sex is performed in like an abstract, like through dance, music and dancing.
Speaker 1:But people said it was explicit. People described it as like you know, not for children and obviously not for you know, obviously not for children, but as if we were literally simulating kind of lingus and doing those things on stage was how it was sort of reviewed And it was so interesting a play to do which explores sexual behaviour, sexual pleasure and also coercion And also what happens when the female dominates the sexual you know, the sexual relationship. It was so like the best way to describe it is if a woman's raped on stage in a play, we often go wow, that's really serious, that's intense. Or a play you know you can watch. I think it's LaVinia and Titus and Dronecus get a tongue-wrapped out of her hands, cut off and gang raped And we go, wow, that was one of Shakespeare's most shocking comedies. You can watch, you know Titania get drugged to sleep and wake up and fall in love with an ass, and we're like, oh, that's so funny, we can watch. You know, amelia gets stabbed to death and is desdemona strangled by her husband, and we call it serious.
Speaker 1:We watch a woman experience sexual pleasure on stage and we go, oh, it's just a bit crass, isn't it? It's such a shame, it just felt a bit. Oh, it was a bit rude, wasn't it? Oh, it was unnecessary, wasn't it A bit cringe. And it's like, wow, we're so used to watching female pain, but sex and pleasure is still really uncomfortable to us, and I think that's what's so cool about it, isn't? I? like how you see people get shocked without them realizing why they're uncomfortable, because the play is funny, the acting is great, the set, design, lighting, design it's all a beautifully put together production. So it's the content that is what makes people feel displaced, which I really find interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, i think you knew when you said in like 15 years it's going to become a cult, because I was there being like I'm so happy I'm watching this in this early phase of it. Obviously I was like, well, this is very cool, especially if I've just knocked out of the park. That's the first play I've watched. I don't need to watch anything else now. You know what I mean. So I thought it was good. No, you set it beautifully because even for me, it's the first time I've seen anything like it. I didn't have any sort of context of all plays where the language is really accessible, really like I don't know so humorous, just from all the rough, obviously very London based, but I just I don't even know how to express how much I really really enjoyed it And, yeah, i've never seen anything like that either. So uniqueness is a big thing as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Oh, I mean, I'm really touched. You came to see it. What did you think of the monologue at the end?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that. And then the monologue leads to like all the issues with men, and I agree with basically all of them, but I didn't know how to. I don't have the emotional capacity to process like what I should do about it, So I just I could just clap, but I was like, oh fuck, It was a very eye opening, but I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:I want to say, but you know, but that's the point is when he apologizes on behalf of all men and she's like oh, thank you. It's like it's not really what people want.
Speaker 1:We know it's not what women want. They want. They want just people to accept and be aware and listen. That's the key thing, to listen to what it's really interesting. So the monologue is like I hate men, i do, i hate how basically I hate. It lists and then it's less and it starts as I hate all men, but then it turns into specific actions And anyone who actually listens to the monologue will realize that she thinks she hates men, but she doesn't. She hates these people who, quite rightly, have absolutely broken her. And you know the thing she's saying I don't think anyone would disagree with.
Speaker 1:You know I hate men who use their power to coerce women into sex. I hate men who will date someone else's teenage daughter. But yeah, you can see men, and it's so fun doing that monologue because it's 10 minutes long as well. It's a really. There's 144. I hates that.
Speaker 2:She says My only complaint was I disconnected slightly because I was like how is Elf doing this? It's insane.
Speaker 1:It was really funny. So to learn that monologue, I recorded it on GarageBand and then added a dubstep beat that I found on YouTube. And it was like I hate men, I can't do music And I would play it in the gym whilst I was exercising.
Speaker 1:So, but then I went into the sauna and didn't connect my Bluetooth speakers properly, press play It just my voice started shouting out I hate men and everyone must have thought God, this crazy woman in this sauna with all these men. It's just like listening to this sort of you know, piece of propaganda, misandrist propaganda.
Speaker 2:No, i think it tackles it really well and brings it to the point where, like you've seen the journey, so the meals will hopefully have. I don't know, i'm just so problematic, elf. I'm not trying to be, i'm just so.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? problematic?
Speaker 2:Because I think it would. It takes me the whole show to get the situation where I'm not going to be defensive about it And you know, because I feel like I really I agree with all the messaging. But if someone would say that to me without, if someone just comes to me and approaches me and starts listing that I'm like I'm sorry, i don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:So it's not really fair for someone to do that to you, but also anyone who, i think the moment you put, the moment you say any group. I hate children, i hate men, i hate women. I hate this Like it's like I don't, like. I hate in comedy when people like they make a joke at the expense of all white men or something like that.
Speaker 1:Because I'm just like, really like, i get it. I understand the sort of punching up, but then, like you know, you look at statistics of like suicide in the UK and like sort of the poorest groups, like regional areas in the south and northeast and like lots of it's. It's more. everyone knows this. it's complex. So why use stereotypes? Why ever? why do we use that stereotype in that way?
Speaker 1:I just don't think it's helpful because it creates a bigger disparity and it creates more people to get more defensive and it creates again more binaries, which I don't think are useful. And also, crucially, they're not as smart as you think they are. Like it's like when anyone I don't really like it in comedy when people make a joke about like all Labour voters or all Conservatives or all this, because I'm like it's not the funniest joke you can make, like that rear. at the end of the day, it's not the funniest joke you can make. It's not the smartest joke you can make. It's quick and it's efficient and sometimes that is what you need as an emcee at certain points.
Speaker 1:But is that really what you want your art to be? Beautiful said, but then I might say that and people won't go well, that just means you're this, this and you're like, no, it doesn't mean anything. It's just I don't know 10 years of watching comedy now I can see it's the fun thing of watching comedy and going. I can see what the punchline is going to be. So that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, you're so deep into comedy now that, like you, have these revelations, Nope. So I have a feeling of that, but I don't know how to express it. So thank you for for awarding it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes ages to do it.
Speaker 2:I'll maybe have like a tiny pinch of something or something I don't like. I don't know why. I'll be like oh, something that my subconscious doesn't like what someone's done or what I've done, And then, I just keep doing it repeatedly, so thank you for telling us. So when you were in, when you did the drama degree, were you torn between being actor, comedian, or were they always the same sort of?
Speaker 1:I had no idea.
Speaker 1:I wanted to be a director. I did lighting design for a while and to be a lighting designer. And then I also after my MA, i was like maybe I'll be a live artist. You know what? Actually I loved admin. Like I worked at Arts at the old fire station in their contracting department, like, and I would commute there from. I did set building and Ealing. Like was the general manager of the Fimbra Theatre for a bit. Like I did crazy. I did a huge variety of different jobs And then I was like maybe I'll do a PhD and become an academic because that's cool, that's like really cool, that would be amazing.
Speaker 1:I really had no idea. I was sort of lost And I think it was also that fear thing of going. I don't think I can do it. I'd write and I think the reason I wanted to do a PhD was part of me at that time. It was if I did that and it would be more, not more possible. But you get me out of saying, oh, you know, i didn't make it as a comic, but I think it was good to. I'm glad I ended up. So I was very I applied to do the ideas.
Speaker 1:This was when Vault Festival just started and I got the Ideas Tap Award to do my show Barbarella, at Vault. And then I crowdfunded £700 to go to Adelaide to do the Adelaide Fringe for a month And that was really where everything switched on its head. That was 2015, 2014,. Because I went and I met Doc Brown and he was doing a clowning course, phil Burgess And he said you should go to Goliath. I was like what's that? And he went. This actor, helen Duff. He was pointing at Lucy Hopkins, he was pointing at all these amazing artists at the Fringe that year And he went. They all went to Goliath And he went and you could be that type of artist. You've got it in, you. You're weird, you've got that sort of way of thinking And I thought I've got nothing to lose And so I emailed whilst I was there and I got accepted to go. And then I shit, david Mills is a really brilliant comedian. He's just fantastic. He ran a, he did a jewelry company and did like loads And he needed a flyer for this jewelry festival.
Speaker 1:So I came out to London and I was working as a ping pong girl at this club called Bounce, with lots of other comedians as well, like Luke McQueen, like Joey Page And they're like really funny group. And then I would teach ping pong for an hour to like city boys and, like you know or not, we'll just like you should see out the day. And then I'd go and fly for this jewelry festival. It was just such a silly time. And then went to Goliath And that in that period of time that was sort of when I got signed for the first time And that felt like a big deal And in hindsight I'm like you know, you realise, you know you always had the ability to make it work, but I think there's so much pressure to be signed And actually I don't really think. I think it's obviously really cool because you need someone who understands contracts, but I think you were always an artist. You didn't need anyone else to tell you you were. Then I went to Gollier and that really changed everything.
Speaker 2:Golly, you didn't do the clown in there, you did the drama.
Speaker 1:I did everything except clowning, funnily enough.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us what that means? Because I'm so excited. I've heard about this and I was just like that's so cool, so Le.
Speaker 1:Jue.
Speaker 2:Clay or something.
Speaker 1:The game Molière and Mask, Neutral Mask. Greek tragedy, Buffon. Characters Shakespeare and Chekhov. There was another one, Vorderville. I asked no, I didn't do Vorderville, I didn't do Vorderville, I did a little bit during Shakespeare and Chekhov.
Speaker 1:You were there for the whole year and you did the book, i did the whole year and so I did the whole first year and then I came back for Buffon, which was one whole term. So I didn't do Vorderville and I didn't do clown because I had to work back in the UK. Now it's only a one-year course and when I went Philippe taught four days of the week, where I believe now he only teaches three. And now it's only one year as opposed to two.
Speaker 2:There's a summer intensive course as well. There's a summer intensive course, the light work, but I was like I need to go. I don't know why. I seen your play and I was like, told my girlfriend. I was like I need to go to the clown and think.
Speaker 1:Well, go and do it, especially because he will retire very soon.
Speaker 2:But I have no place saying that. This is where the problem with my brain is. I'll be inspired by something and, unfortunately, i will actually go and do it. I wish there was a buyer where I would stop, but I will.
Speaker 1:I'm not an actor. Well, if you want to go and learn clowning, so like obviously.
Speaker 2:But should a comedian do it?
Speaker 1:I think everybody should. I think it's really because also, you're there to learn. You're also there to learn what you like and what you don't like. Everyone has the right to learn, everyone has the right to do Greek theatre. Do that thing of why are you doing it Sometimes, be really, why wouldn't you do it? I think it's more interesting, and if it's just because I don't feel like I should, then that's not enough of a reason.
Speaker 2:You might be the most dangerous person I can speak to, because I will fully go. So thank you, alpha, i can't look forward to my second chance, so as of like Karla.
Speaker 1:Jakucchi, you taught the movement there at Goliath. He does clown courses, he's fantastic. So Vigo then, obviously, is who?
Speaker 2:Congratulations Vigo on his win yesterday.
Speaker 1:So funny. So, goliath me, john Luke Roberts, who's a brilliant comedian, a lovely artist called Oliver and Vigo, and I all lived in the kitchen It was Father Julia Masley and we'd come into the kitchen and they had this Larry Konodoff. And I just hear Julia go hi, alpha. I look at her beautiful voice and I'm like hi, julia, you know these funny memories and the building used to rock when the trains would come past. Like, lucy Hopkins does amazing clown courses. She's a phenomenal artist. Dan Lees, who does the establishment, runs the London Clown Festival. He does courses. He's great. Julia Masley runs courses. I do, obviously. He has lots of really fantastic clown practitioners. You know, spy Monkey, i think in John Davison's book on clowning is really interesting and he runs great clown courses.
Speaker 1:I think the obsession with Goliath now is interesting because people suddenly realized oh, but, it was always there, but there are also other places and there are new styles that are coming through, because there are different methodologies and very different ideas of what clowning is. Yeah, so I do think for anyone interested in it, don't just sign up to go there. You can, obviously, but think of other places and also don't say that you treat you. Some people are like I trained, i trained at, i worked with, and you're like you did one week.
Speaker 2:Why would I go else? wise, you did a holiday.
Speaker 1:I want to call myself an actor, so I'm going to enter Rada and you're like you did the weekend course, i would be so obnoxious after going for two weeks and just I would be like, oh, you're clowning.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, go to the course. No, i wouldn't, obviously, but that's very good, i will check it. But do you think there's value then? and people trying to pursue stand up to do clowning as well?
Speaker 1:There's value in whatever you do, as long as you do it with good intentions and it makes you happy and you're doing it for healthy reasons, like if it's an inquisitiveness and a genuine question towards who you are and what you want to do, then great. Do it.
Speaker 1:But if it's to tick a box, you think it's the gateway to you becoming successful, then maybe you're not going to be. And you know, I've seen people who do it because they want to be a clown and not just a clown. They want to emulate this particular artist. No, you're not going to. You don't know what the amount of times like directing or working with artists who clearly want to be someone else and you can't be someone else. So I in comedy it was one cool thing for Leap Boys said oh, it was just.
Speaker 1:You know, you've got to be aware of who you are. You've got to be aware of what you look like. You've got to be aware of what you sound like. You've got to be aware of all these things because the audience are and you can't lie to an audience. I mean you can lie in a lot of committees Some, not a lot Some comedians do.
Speaker 1:They lie about where they're from, their background, their voice And, yeah, you don't necessarily owe it to the audience for them to know everything, but they can see through when you're being inauthentic. And my dad always said to me my dad was you know, because my dad was Irish, working class by you know, when in, did well in economics and you know, because of various factors and my you know, i went to a boarding school because it was the best school for me and my learning needs. And what was going on in my life at that time age 10, 11. My dad said don't mention it on stage because people won't like you. And he's true. But the difference is, as I'm 31 now and I don't care if you're going to make a judgment based on that one thing- absolutely fair enough.
Speaker 1:But we're more than just one component, and I'd much rather be totally honest about my background, my family, everything, than come on stage and feel the need to lie because the audience don't have time for that. And I do, i like, and if you're going to judge me, then you always get a judge. You judge me like I don't. I don't need that. You won't come to my show again, fair enough, fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, what a boss. I don't like it, that's so so.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just, I get annoyed when people pretend I get. I just find it really disingenuous and the industry's already so flawed in so many ways, Like we don't need to, don't need to make it more dishonest than it already is. Come on, Just just say say what's going on. Nobody's going to hate you, And if they are, then they've got their own stuff that we're always going to hate. Most people don't want to hate other people. Most people don't want to be angry at other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very true, very true. No, that's amazing. I'm just trying to thank her. So many lessons, i'm like. Are you so profiled and wise?
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, you're going to put this out and so many people are like I'm going to have. I hate this posh bitch. Who does she think she needs? I hate her. Oh, hard point. I don't think she's very funny. I saw her play Nya nya, nya, nya clowns.
Speaker 2:No, you have some soup, you have some of the best stand that I've seen, with such a weird video to watch, because I actually couldn't find many of the videos maybe I don't put many videos. Yeah, that's cause you.
Speaker 1:I'm putting my special up on Talk Dirty next week on my YouTube channel And it's going to be. It's just Talks Dirty for an hour. It's just an hour of straight stand up. It's not necessarily got any great vibe, It's mostly improvised as well.
Speaker 2:So please tell me, how does that happen?
Speaker 1:10 years.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, i know I'm not saying like how do you have the talent? No, i'm not saying that. I'm being like how do you have it? You could edit that out, if that makes sense. How do you do it? 10 points Do you know who I am? Yeah, going to the gym.
Speaker 1:How do you run a marathon? You fucking run, you practice.
Speaker 2:No, what I mean? the decision to do a special at Tempur Vice. That's what I'm going to do next?
Speaker 1:Oh no, it was just.
Speaker 2:Why did you do a special?
Speaker 1:No, i don't really like the Tempur Special. Basically, i don't want to do reels. I don't like putting stuff on the internet. No offense, it doesn't make me happy. It's not me, it's not in my world. So what I will do, which I think is better for me And that makes my work better is do a live show. Someone filmed it, lovely, theo filmed it. Edit it, put it online, make it accessible. Anyone can watch it if they want. If you like it, great. If you don't like it, fine. But then it means people who can't come and travel to see me can see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah and it also for me. It means if it's a one hour, it means you sit and you watch it, as opposed to 40 second. I don't. I don't like the doper mean rush of, and also I find memory wise. I've seen lots of very funny clips on the Instagram of comedians internationally and I can't tell you their names of course.
Speaker 1:And I think that's That's. I don't, if I want to know who the artist is, and I think sometimes putting something out, specific online Now a thing, what it means that people have to Connect in a different, a different way. Their brain maybe remembers it slightly differently, or I don't know, but So, yeah, i'm putting that out, and then that means people could say, hey, can I watch your online? And I go yeah, there's one thing that is from a proper full-length show which I have had Control an agency over, same with next up. Swan is on next up though, so I feel like it's the weakest product performance of swan that is out there I can join me to try to describe swan.
Speaker 2:You did swan lick in French without speaking French, or No one ballet.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2:There's ketchup involved. I think it's about so. When I heard that you did that, i was like that is the most inspiring thing I've ever heard. Like fearlessness is so.
Speaker 1:It's a great show. It's a really I'm really proud of that show.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna see your show. By the way, this didn't King show.
Speaker 1:That's a great show.
Speaker 2:That's where I got the idea that you were the like because I've had to piece all these pieces together so probably made assumption stuff. But that's where I thought the clown and was the, because it's described as clown and isn't there is clowning.
Speaker 1:It was more bull phone actually.
Speaker 2:The phone is like the you describe it. That's the. The outside of the outside of the house to come back and press the King, Yeah come back and kill the King.
Speaker 1:Yes so that needs quite dark. But yeah, the swan, which ended up getting reviewed as a clown show, which was never my intention, but well it, just in hindsight I'm like, yeah, i know it is a clown show, but the next up version and the team next up were really brilliant. already happy with the edit, but it was just when the COVID restrictions changed. So a show that has a lot of audience Not necessarily bring them up on stage, but lots of interaction with them and actually at one point me climbing into the audience, which is sort of where the gag is There were 12 people in the crowd To which one of my parents, one was a next and.
Speaker 1:I kid you not, the rest were lone men, socially distanced, and it is just, and I'm gonna tell you the best, and it was during the World Cup.
Speaker 1:Something like that It was during something intense 12 people To do a recording, doing a special out of all the days, because the next day I had a very different audience. It was really wicked because I think the next day the legislation changed which meant I could have a foolish crowd. It is probably the most damp, so I think I added a laughter track And, like the first, yeah. So I watched that video and I'm like, oh god If I die, and this is what goes down in history as the show.
Speaker 2:But I well, i agree with you because The reels for me, is just a desperate attempt to catch up to people that have were much more focused. Yeah, so I think they are dopamine fuel in Society, destroying nightmares, but I don't have the body of work or the experience that I can like, so that's where that's my, it's really smart.
Speaker 1:I mean you don't, i don't, yeah, like nobody has to defend why they do something.
Speaker 2:No, i feel like I do, because I'm almost like I'm sorry, guys, i'm sorry. That was sort of what some of them worked. That's like I don't deserve any of the sort of you know.
Speaker 1:But you don't get to choose that the audience decide, that's true. The audience decide if you deserve it, and if they buy the tickets and they book it and they follow you, then you deserved it, doesn't you know? That's what the free market is economics. Yeah, someone's.
Speaker 2:I just, i just think I'll. I'm the big supporter for comedy in general cuz.
Speaker 1:And there's different types.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really you like even the play, like blew my mind. I was like I didn't know. This is an option, similar thing and this I don't know. This insulting our prayers, a book of Mormon, also Open my eyes in a similar way. Different venue, obviously different Avenue, more convert work, but it's incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was the South Park writers phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really brilliant. So it's just like little things open, and so I'm just like everyone should go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's loads of different ways you can do what you want to do. Just go to take risks, fail, work out What makes you happy. Sounds very simplified. Obviously there's a huge amount of. I Mean saying that last night I was in tears. He was like what are your problems? and I was like I think I don't know. It's like hyper.
Speaker 2:But how do you have so much work, so much output?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's a teacher self, hi I.
Speaker 1:Think I don't know. It's like hyper, but then at the same time like I work very hard But then do I work the most Cuz? it's like the argument is so funny, like I'll get into a conversation. So I was like, have you been on telly? or you know I don't earn half as much as some of my colleagues in comedy do, because they do corporates and they do this and you know, and their work is more, perhaps more Mainstream in that they are able to appeal to a wider audience. Like I can do mainstream comedy. I know I can, but Haven't done. You know I and also my some of my friends have made the choice to do the reels, so they've got how much more thousands of followers that I have? and or they've made choices and made risks that have really paid off. So it Again.
Speaker 1:It's that funny thing about meaning, because I look at my career, i've made a huge amount of work. Does it financially show my bank account? not necessarily. Am I able to buy a house? Absolutely not. Like, can I afford my wedding? No, no, i'm very much like in an artist's sort of realm, but at the same time I'm like I Look at the body of work And I think that's, that is cool, like I am really proud of I am really proud of that work, and it's like do you want to be So it's? do you want to be famous or do you want to be respected? It wasn't what my dad said to me. He says it's not that they can't be the same, but sometimes they do require different. They do require different paths, and I was like, well, i'd quite like to. Whilst I'm still working out who I am, i think I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm ready for your dad to start a cult, by the way, if he wants a man, bro, i'm fully in. There you go. There's your, there's for the, there's the patreon for the alphanomics.
Speaker 1:We just needed to kill one chariot. That's very good.
Speaker 2:But I'll try to take a bite of the company you just got such a great. This one was to talk about, but like, how did you go from open mic to professional comic then? what was the sort of change that happened? was it just gigs?
Speaker 1:I think the smartest thing I, i, i Mean and then again also it was I think you can't underestimate how important it is when you've got family that support you And I don't mean that financially, i mean that is an actually a family who believe that you're capable because, I think the fact that my mom and dad Made the effort to come and see me and come and see shows that I was terrible in and who, like?
Speaker 1:I remember doing the gong show And I had the hot. An audience member threatened to rape me. I remember and it was. And a few days later I did a comedy gig and my parents were like Emily, it's like you've been in a fox hunt. They're like you, it's like you've been a. You seem like prey. That's how you act at the moment. You see it, because I was so shell shocked by that behavior. But my parents, my mom, said to me she was like you don't need to do that, you do not need to do that gig. Anything that creates that impact and that level of stress is Is not worth it at all and I think that was really useful like and so going right, i can't.
Speaker 1:I didn't do good in competitions. I've never been good in competitions. I was terrible. My 11 plus Secondary school it's part of the reason, like you know ended up going to the boarding school. No, i like any school, i thought I just couldn't do the entrance test totally dyslexic, really stressed, really bullied. Like you know, i was a weirdo like, and I went. You know, i found a school where the drama teacher was really kind to me and I went. Oh, it's nice here. Of course it was nice to look like Harry Potter. I understand finances. My parents like do you really want to go there? She's happy for the first time and she's not pretending to be dead. Um, so you know. Um, but what's to talk about? but I think I Never did well in competitions.
Speaker 1:There was this desire to prove, especially in five minutes, which I always found hard. So I was like right, i Can pay. You could pay an entrance fee to a show like the Camden fringe I can't remember how much it was and I can do an hour for two nights. I could go all my friends in, i Could make the money back. But then I've got two nights where I'm on stage for an hour And that's the equivalent of how many gigs in a week, how many five minutes? what's in a week? You know that's not the right way to measure it, but in terms of five minutes I was like okay, i can do that, that's really good. So that was how I did it. I started going I will do one hour, i'll do 40 minute whips. So I used to do whips and pubs at different places, which actually made me more money. It was a more financially smarter call, i think.
Speaker 2:I think it's just better overall.
Speaker 1:It's better overall and I became better. And also, you know, i didn't charge expensive prices. At the beginning It was really cheap, which meant people didn't mind that it was a bit rough around the edges. People knew what they were investing in And that's it. If it's a whip, you charge low. You always, you know, and if you're charging more than 10 quid, it better be good It better be a show.
Speaker 1:You don't rip your audience off, especially like people pay for babysitters. People can be like come on, know you're at the understand that time is really valuable.
Speaker 2:So how do you keep that time as valuable? but then do your whip Like, how do you go in, how do you approach the rip the whip, because obviously it's going to be rough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you just it's about being honest Obviously charge low, but charge.
Speaker 2:Did you have a plan for the show? Sorry, i'm just interested Cause I would love I think that makes so much sense to go and like put on your own production The way.
Speaker 1:I would always say now to people especially like get a group of other artists that you go on with comedians, hire rehearsal space, which is actually cheaper and a venue, hire and do it like the way a theater R&D does it from two to five.
Speaker 1:You've got three hours right for a little bit. Dancing from the mirror, show your work to each other, perform it, practice it like it's a theater play and then invite some mates in at four o'clock and do an hour. Do a whip in front of them and do an R&D. Perform what you've got, give a 15 minute break and then people give their feedback.
Speaker 2:The friends that have come to watch it. That's so good.
Speaker 1:That's what I did for Raven cause. I just couldn't, cause I was teaching full time. I didn't have the energy or the capacity to do previews, so I hired rehearsal space and I would invite one or two friends in at a time. Leslie, who helps run Troy club, was absolutely phenomenal. My friend Sarah, who's brilliant, like you know. My friend David Hoskin is a mime, who's lovely. So friends came in and would give me an hour of their time to watch me. Lich And people actually, i think, far more willing to do that, because it's that teamwork helping build up Josh Glance, damian Warren, damian Warren Smith, who's like. Damian Warren Smith and Josh Glance like two of them are most precious, like, adore them, brilliant artists, but they really cause.
Speaker 1:With Raven I wasn't ready. I was really last year. I was really depressed, like I was in teaching. I was in so much stress about Edinburgh. I was all this pressure cause I'd been out of the mix. You know, after COVID trained as a teacher I felt like I wasn't really known anymore. I felt like this was my last chance to prove that I was still around, or that was how I was made to feel to a certain extent. And so there was all this unnecessary pressure to make a fantastic show And the show wasn't ready Like the show was not ready until the day before And then I went. We had this idea to do with vegetables And then suddenly the show just fell into place And then it developed And then by the end of the month I had a show that I just adored And the audience really adored it as well. That came to see the show and that became yeah, and that felt really magical.
Speaker 2:Well done.
Speaker 1:I think it's really important for people. when you make shows, you make it. it's gotta be something that you're in love with. It's a show that you love And you have to be so proud of it afterwards. I think that's really important with your work. You have to love your work because it's the only, it's what carries you, And when you get to a venue and you've only got 10 people in, you've got to be like I love this show. I think that's the advice I have.
Speaker 2:That's very good. That was like. I just make so much sense. Everything you're saying is just clicking. But how do you solicit, like, good feedback, like when you run the research and development, like, how does feedback work? Because feedback is quite touchy for a lot of people, especially in stand-up Is there like, is it just everyone just respects each other? Is that the important part or is that a dumb question?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I think it's like you know when, obviously if it's just one random thing, also watching how everyone also reacts to the feedback being given. If everyone goes well, you can be like, oh, that's a bit of a curve, I don't know. I also find if some feedback really hits a nerve, that can be sometimes a sign that it's important to write down and reflect on, Because why did it touch a nerve?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Why am I getting upset? Why am I not laughing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, why am I not laughing? But then also I would assume you'd invite people that you trust and respect. You don't invite people that you want to impress. That's not the right person. You invite people who you trust and like, whose work you like. No point inviting someone whose work you don't like. Don't just invite someone who you know. just right, just get numbers. Just get numbers up. It's not gonna be obvious Be a spikript.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like there's some people I know with the greatest respect who will watch my work time and time again and will just be like this.
Speaker 2:I find that impossible because you're having so much fun, cause, yeah, another. well, it looks like you're having fun. Maybe you're not. Maybe inside you're like this is the worst night of my entire life, but I thought you were having so much fun. But with Stand Up, do you think that still works as well? Cause Stand Up traditionally isn't that fun. It's more like I'm getting a call on the call.
Speaker 1:Oh it should be fun, do you think so? Of course it should, do you not have fun doing it?
Speaker 2:No, I do. Sorry that was on, but I mean sometimes I feel like for five or 10 minutes it has to be really like I say this, then I say this No, no, no, it doesn't have to be like that at all. Okay.
Speaker 1:No, what makes you happy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I suppose it's the weird competitions, the forced out sort of mindset.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's no good, it's already a competition. Yeah, that's true, i mean like as much as you know. that's why the communities and your friendships in the industry are so important, because we can't lie from each other that it is there's only so many people who can be on that bill.
Speaker 2:That's very true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's horrible, but that's like.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's horrible, but it makes sense.
Speaker 1:So yeah, if you're trying to choreograph yourself for someone else, you're never going to be happy.
Speaker 2:Wow, Very wise, Al very wise.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I think I sound like a tosser.
Speaker 2:No, not at all Well, Al, thank you for coming. What have we got next? You've got the special coming out. We don't want to call it special, but we don't want to call it special, Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've got Talks Dirty coming out on my YouTube channel which I'll be free to watch, so anyone can subscribe. Al Lyons, if you were one of my students from school, please don't comment saying oh my goodness, this is my old drama teacher, because I will just send it to the head of department and we can work out which laptop it's coming from on the school. So I was serious.
Speaker 1:I was in love with it, but it's true. So the amount of students who were like, oh my goodness, and I'm like you do know we can find out who this is Like. It's not, you're not an MI5. Yeah, so I'm doing that. I'm then doing Raven on the 16th of June at Leicester Square Theatre. There's some tickets still left. It'd be lovely to sell that out. And then there's Alphanomics, which is my comedy economics podcast with my dad, where we will slowly get you to join a cult.
Speaker 2:Member number one's already signed up. I don't know, you might have existing cult members, in which case I will compete with them for your followers affection.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, yes, please. And then, after Raven, on the 16th of June, leicester Square Theatre, it's Duffy and I doing our show at the Edinburgh Festival for two weeks And it's our BSL VV Mime Clown Extravaganza Heist, which is accessible for the deaf, hard of hearing, but it's like we're trying to make it as accessible as possible. I'm not sure if the venues wheelchair accessible, but it will perform in venues which are wheelchair accessible after Edinburgh, that's right. So we're doing that for two weeks at Monkey.
Speaker 2:Barrel, i will go to that as well. I'm going up to Edinburgh, yay, so I will just sit there. One thing I'll have to rework it a little bit. Can we do an Else Edinburgh Survival Guide, and then I will leave you from this with Duffy Cool.
Speaker 1:Else Edinburgh Survival Guide. Else Edinburgh Survival Guide. See as much. Try and see one show from every venue. So all the different types of venues, because there's no such thing as one venue better than the other in terms of some people like look down some venues don't go and see. Go and see one from every venue. Go and see someone that flies you passionately. Go and take your time to see someone show And don't say that you will see. Don't promise to see someone show and then not see it, because people are sensitive and remember promises. So if you can't make, a show just-.
Speaker 2:I've regretted that promise to you now. Yeah, no joke, i'll be there.
Speaker 1:So just saying someone, yeah, just saying I will try. I can't promise anything, but I will try.
Speaker 2:That's right From the performers. how do you think the performers should survive?
Speaker 1:From the performers. I mean that was for the performance as well. You only get good by seeing other stuff as well. And I'm not gonna say don't read reviews, because I read reviews. They can be quite fun. But I would definitely. What would I say? Make as many, don't get bitter, Don't be bitter.
Speaker 2:That's good advice. So many bitter people.
Speaker 1:Don't be a bitter birdie, be a happy Horace. Yeah, the biggest arts festival in the world, and also it's meant to be hard Scrub up.
Speaker 2:That was gangster.
Speaker 1:I've never been described as gangster before. There you go, there you go.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much for coming, elf. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no problem. Also, everyone, please follow Elf And go to all their shows, the one I've seen so far, the greatest play of my entire life. So that's the review. If you've enjoyed it, give it a five star on Apple podcast or Spotify And if you see any sort of reels or anything, give them a share. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming, elf. Bye.