Russell Hicks - Comedy, Improvisation, and the Power of Making It Up

In episode thirteen of Kidding I sat down with the razor-sharp and exhilarating comedian, Russell Hicks! 🎙️ Originally from the US and now based in London, Russell has made a name for himself as one of the UK's most exciting comedic talents. With appearances on major TV networks like Channel 4, BBC, and ITV, Russell's provocative and exuberant style has garnered him a devoted following both on and off the stage. 🎭

In this episode, Russell delves into the principles that guide his comedy. He shares his perspective on refraining from asking questions and explains how this approach can enhance comedic delivery. Russell also discusses the importance of avoiding dead ends in comedy, particularly by steering clear of blue humor that adds no value to the performance. He highlights the need for comedians to be skilled and confident enough to navigate any situation without resorting to offensive or cheap jokes. 🚫

The episode also explores Russell's experiences with improv, revealing how it has influenced his comedic style. While he didn't extensively study improv, Russell shares how he applied its principles in his performances to keep the audience engaged and entertained. He also shares valuable lessons he learned from renowned comedian Eddie Izzard, emphasizing the importance of finding inspiration in unexpected places and exploring diverse topics. 💡

Throughout the conversation, Russell emphasizes the significance of necessity in comedy. From improvising on the spot to diversifying written material, he discusses how necessity drives creativity and invention. He also offers insights into financial savvy for comedians and the subjective nature of validation in the comedy world. 🎟️

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Transcript

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So I'm here with Russell Hicks, regularly hosts and headlines at top comedy clubs like Hot Water, Top Secret and Up The Creek. He's appeared on BBC, Channel 4 and ITV. He's hundreds of thousands of followers online. He's been endorsed as a global talent by Arts Council England in 2022. He does voice actum for Sky Comedy and ITV, stand up sketch show, and he's been the lead character for an Amazon Prime show. What was the Amazon Prime show? Oh, we don't need to actually, let's not actually say what it was called. We'll get into that. It was called Love Struck High. I'll be checking it out if I can't say it. Oh, please. What makes him special is every set is improvised. He has no idea what he's going to say before he goes on stage, making every show unique. Butchered it a bit at the end. What else did I miss there, Russell? Oh, God. That was the most comprehensive retrospective I think I've ever been subjected to. What a pleasure. Read it again. I will. Thank you for coming. Thanks, man. Yeah. Yeah. So this show is basically just new comedian interviews, talents and then. Well, it's nice to have somebody, you know, you're new, right? You know, show a little respect. What? We couldn't even get you a coffee. We actually, you're one of the most basic, like nice order at Decaf iced black coffee. Decaf iced Americano. I thought, wow. I almost took the milkshake. When's the last time you had a good old fashioned milkshake? You know, like not no protein powder, no, no berries. It was a good old fashioned ice cream and milk. I don't think you see that that often. So for the for the listeners and viewers, can you describe your comedy? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny because you got to the part where you said he goes on and he makes everything up. He has no idea what he's going to say. And I remember like I remember I was in a green room once. That is kind of what it is. I think I'm evolving now. I think I've been going a long time. I'm like experimenting with last night. I was trying all these different ideas, but it does change pretty regularly from show to show. Like I do improvise a lot and I've always worked that way. And that's that's just the way it is. Yeah, I think that's the best description. I was going to say that I used to like I didn't decide to work that way. I just was better that way. And then every time I would go on stage, it was like, well, I want to be good right now. So I'm probably going to try to like go off the page because that seems to be doing better. And then that just kept going and going and going in my career. You know, but I remember one time I was in Los Angeles and I was in a green room. And someone like I don't like like to I would never go, you know, like I think it sounds arrogant, but it's not like I'm in the green room. I pull my set list out and then I and then I take a lighter and just like in front of the other comedians go won't be needing that. But one time this guy set me up to where it sounded like I was doing that. He's like in front of these comedians and one of the guys was like on Better Call Saul. Now he's like he does really well this guy. And I just burned in my memory because he goes the promoter is like, so, Russell, are you just going to like go up and just like make it up? Like whatever. And I was like kind of embarrassed that he said that. I was like, you know, just like whatever happens. And I remember this guy who he was sitting on the couch and he just went, wow. You know, because if you didn't know me, I would think the same thing. I'd be like, what a prick. But I just want to be like, I wasn't, you know, that's what he said that. Well, I don't know what to say. I was like, because also I didn't really want that pressure, to be honest. I was like, because one time I had someone bring me on and be like, you're going to love this guy. He's going to come on and he's going to make it all up. And he'd probably talk to you and then he'll go to you. And then he'll probably like come back to you and tie it all together. I mean, he like gave the nuts and bolts of pretty much how I was. And I was like, you know what I mean? Imagine bringing someone on and you're like, he's going to start with a thing about dogs and then he's going to go into cats. And so I was just like, oh, yeah. So my whole wonderful introduction where I triggered you there and brought back that trauma was because I wanted to avoid the words improvisation. And what's the other word? Crowdwork. No, I like improvisation. I like it because it sounds pretentious. But you know what's funny is I'm not alone. Dude, you know what, man? How old are you? Twenty eight. So I'm like older than that. And as I get older, I've realized that you share so much of what you're... It's just so nice to know that you're not alone in the ways that you think. I spent so much of my life thinking, is it too early to get real? Is this the part? Should I cry in part two? That was about 30 minutes. Should I cry when I return to this podcast? I've never done a Russell Hicks Returns, by the way. You know, that really gets... These kind of things are the things that will keep you up at night as you get older. You know? What's up, Stu Goldsmith? How about like a, he's back. We can't name him. He's the arch enemy. He's the one that's done it already. Who? Goldsmith. He's returned to this podcast twice? No, I'm saying he's like the one with the interview podcast where he's actually a professional, you know, real deal, brave and comic. Great interviewer. I loved that podcast. I always bring that up because it was so nice. Is this weird? Should I talk about other podcasts? Boy, I'll tell you who's a good podcast interviewer. This is like Starbucks. Stu Goldsmith. First thing he did when I showed up, gave me a decaf iced coffee. A bucket. The worst thing is I listened to it and it was a very good episode with you two. Did you listen to that one? I really enjoyed that. That was like really nice. I'm really enjoying this already. And I mean that too. Yes. Comedians, comedians. They've really been downhill since you came on it, honestly. Oh, wow. Sorry. Yeah, that's why I heard it's gone down. So people now know what the alternative much... They're like, you already had him. You had him. You had the comedians, comedians, comedian, comedian. But yeah, so OK, when I returned the podcast. No, you share so much mental headspace. What I mean by that is I spent so much of my life thinking that everything I thought was... And I don't mean this in a way like I'm unique. No, I felt alone and very isolated because I was like, no one has these things that I think and these issues. And I think a lot of that is maybe like living in a small town or just not talking enough. You know, it's funny, man. There's a lot of lip service paid today about we talk about mental health and stuff. But you know what? It is good. It is good that we talk about that stuff, because for all the kind of like corporate foe, we're just latching on to it because it's profitable now. There's tons of that. But on the whole, when you vocalize anything that's going on with you, you realize how little you put things like that out there. And then once you put it out there, it's amazing how many people will give it back. But you realize the reason they never gave it back like, oh, me too, is because you actually don't even realize you never really said it because you just thought people were going to think it's weird. Anyway, all that. This is funny. I went on this huge tangent to because and it was inspired by something that is nowhere near as heavy as the tangent. I was just going to say that I don't like the term crowd work. And I heard an interview with Paula Poundstone, who is like this female comedian in America, who I think also does a lot of improvisation. And she said on the podcast, she hates the term crowd work. And why do you hate the term? Is it just because it sounds like it's less when people say, oh, that's crowd work? It's a pejorative. I think. I wanted to practice. Good one, huh? I was like, I looked it up. Did you look that up? That's a good one. Yeah, it's a pejorative. It's probably I probably mispronounced it. But it's. Do you know what? I don't even care anymore. I used to care more. I actually don't really care at all. Sometimes I even say it sometimes. But usually see when people used to say it, I feel here's why. I feel like whoever came up with that term wasn't the type of comic who did it a lot. You wouldn't have like Don Rickles wouldn't be like, I do crowd work. He wouldn't. He would say something else because crowd work sounds so like. I don't know. It just sounds so perfunctory. Like it's so like it's a thing you do to get to it. It sounds like you're putting up scaffolding, nothing, nothing against scaffolders. You know what I mean? But it just sounds like, well, I did some crowd work. I did a little I moved the chairs around and I I set the room up a little bit. And then we got down to work. So I don't know. And it always was said to me, riffing as well. Riffing was always said like, and I know people don't mean this at all. And again, as I say this, these even these things I perceive as slights were probably made up in my brain. You know, like I just feel like people would always say to me riffing as if like they were saying it like it was throw away. Whereas I was like trying to. Make it more, I was really indulging in it, and I really believed I could elevate it to something bigger than just an aside from the main course, which was my. Well, you're preaching to the choir because I was at a gig recently and a woman came out to me after it was like, oh, you're good, but you're just speaking the whole time to the audience. I was like, thank you. Just speaking. Yeah, just speaking. Wow. I enjoyed your speech. She meant just talking, sorry, just talking to the audience. I was like, oh, yeah, dude, I used to get that all the time. I would have like shows that I thought were like really amazing. And this one used to bother me because this is my own insecurity. Probably people would come up to me and they go, I love that. I can't wait to see your set. And I would, you know what I mean? And I'd be like, I'd already burnt it earlier. So yeah, well, since it's laying in a pile of ash in the green room. And what was the first gig that's where I get the whole way back to the start? When did you start? 2010. I did 2010 January, January 10th. I think it was January 10th, 2010. Was this the was this year from San Diego? So, yeah, I studied NASA. So I feel like for six months, no one understood anything. I was expected to absolutely murder it over there. No one understood anything. St. Patrick's Day, they all thought I was fake and my accent nearly had an identity crisis. Yeah, I feel like we don't get that many. I mean, we do, but yeah, I just don't. It's not like in a really compact metropolitan like New York or something where you just meet all these. Like when I went to Los Angeles, when I went to Hollywood, that's when I met like Australians and English people and all these other types. But yeah, I started in San Diego, January 10th. I remember the date. What was the first gig like? The first gig I did was I remember I had a partner at the time. I dropped her off at the airport and she was going to Russia. She was Russian and she was like she was Russian. She was sawing her way. She was a mercenary. And she said in 13 years, there'll be a coup. What? She she was like she went to. She went to Russia and I was like, I'm going to try to stand up today. So I remember I was at the airport and I walked her all the way through security. And it was like the security was so annoying. And it was just this was like still kind of when it was like TSA, just like the Bush era was just ending. But they were still so, you know, anal and like ineffectual, really. And I drive all the way down to the gig in San Diego. So I dropped off at LAX. I drive down two and a half hours and I was going to do this open mic and a music. It was like a music open mic and some some bar called the Sky Bar. I remember this, the Sky Bar. It was the Sky Bar and like I was like Miramesa, El Cajon. Anyway, so I I get I call my brother and I'm like, I'm like, you got to come do this with me. Come watch me. My brother comes with me. But the whole way down the airport, I'm listening from the airport. I'm listening to Steven Wright. So Steven Wright was this American comic. I don't know if you know, but he was just one liners, super surreal one liners. And he's he's brilliant. He was the guy he did the voice for the radio station in Reservoir Dogs. So he'd be like, OK, Billy's, you know, that voice. And but his stuff's super surreal. Like he'd be like, I was playing. I was playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and seven people died. Right. Great stuff. So I get all this. So I'm like in my head coming up with all these Steven Wright jokes. And they were so bad. They were they were horrendous. I don't even remember what they were. One of them was like, my car says low oil. And the punchline was something like it's depressed. So it wants me to massage it. It was like, I don't even know. And like, so I go to Skybar, I pick my brother up and the Skybar is like, you're a comedian. Like, we don't we don't like comedians. He said we don't he said we don't like comedians. Which I which struck me as weird because I thought, well, if you don't want comedians to do the open mic, just ban them. But he didn't. They would let them go on, but they didn't like them. And I go in the car with my brother and I go, here's all the jokes I'm going to do. And my brother, Randy, was like, those what you just did was the worst thing I have ever heard. He was laughing at how bad it was. And he was like, that's the shittest. Like, that is trash what you just did. And then that comedy thing, huh? Anti comedy thing. That's what I thought your angle was. No, he was like, he was like, I don't know what you're doing. Like, those were the worst jokes on earth. And so I bombed in the car like really bad. And then he goes, but that pissed me off, right? Because I'm very sensitive. And so that angered me. And then I snapped on my brother, you know, in a fun way. But I was like, well, I told him all about the airport. I bitched about driving to the airport, dropping Anna off, taking her through security, how the security people were so ineffectual. And like one of the lines was like, how are you going to like something about like they were like they were worse. They were like people who worked at McDonald's, you know what I mean? So like, how are you going to find a bomb in my suitcase if you can't even locate a pub in my Big Mac or something? I was just going off, right? And my brother was like he was dying. He was like, do that. And I was like, oh, what did I do? And then we wrote down we wrote down he's like, talk about the talk about that. Say the thing about the pub and the whatever it was, the joke I did. And he's like, do something. And I went on stage and I did those five things. And I don't remember like. It I just remember walking back and forth. There was like three people in the audience, one of them. One of them is still a comic now. He lives in Los Angeles. His name is Faraz Ozel. And he's like, he's still going. And he was he he was going to do his first gig that night, but he didn't end up going up or something like that. And like so I go back and forth on the stage and super quick because I was like George Carlin style. And I remember I was so nervous. I don't really remember the gig, but I remember it was like in my mind enough at the time it went OK. And there was even like a little slight improv thing, someone did something and I forget. I said something like some cheesy joke about like. And I think I even like semi was like, oh, don't do that. I saw it was like it was too influenced by a national lampoon cartoon or something like that. It was something that now would be you might say. I think it was like the guy I said something about someone in a wheelchair. And then. I said something like, what if? Some guy was in a wheelchair and I just stood up and walked out or something like that, right? I was like brand new. It was my first gig. I mean, it's like horrendous, but. And but I remember thinking of that kind of in the moment. And yeah, for me at the time, I was like, that went well. I'm sure if I watched it now, I'd be like it most certainly did not. But it was enough to get me massively excited. And I to this day still think my brother saved me a year and a half, maybe of trying to find my voice. That's what I was going to say. Your brother is just. Yeah, you know, like just in that in that isolated moment, he saved me like, who knows, 30 gigs. Could have been worse. Could have been so much worse. Could have been nine years. Yeah, because he just cut that. Like I was committed to like this, what I'm going to do. And he just like sliced that and took me straight into this other level of like kind of ranting, which was the beginning of like you know, learning to kind of somewhat how I operated. Because there was a good couple of years where I just angrily ranted. What we did about just the frustration. Was it the honest or was it about the Russian girl? Because I was nervous. I was nervous and I was nervous and scared to be on stage. And so I would. But I'm the type of person who like for whatever reason, I don't know, maybe like growing up in a small town, I thought. I it's weird. I'm like this mix of like, I'll be nervous, sensitive and hurt, but I won't hide. I'll react. Yeah. But it's like now that I get older, I'm like, this is the same thing, though. Like you think you're looking, I'm not scared. It's like anyone who was watching you would be like, this is a scared little boy who's on a stage three feet above everyone with a microphone. So he has and now he can yell and I'm not nervous. You are. Yeah. Like I'm so but if I get off the stage and I'm at eye level with you, then I'll be like, I'm out of here. So, yeah, there was that whole phase. Were you a big comedy fan before? Well, there's another person who's helped me. So I moved in with my friend Jimmy when I was in San Diego. He's a comedian now. He lives in Los Angeles. His name is Jimmy Calloway. I lived with him in Los San Diego before I was comedian. And I credit Jimmy for also saving me a lot of time because Jimmy was like a super, super nerd. And he had so he was and what I mean by that was like he was like a hipster in every sense of the word, like he he just had everything. Like he had every comic book. He had all this literature. You know what I mean? And he knew everything about everything. So the point that like his porn, he had like classic porn. Do you know? Like, yeah, he would watch all types of porn. But he had stacks of VHS of like Debbie Does Dallas, deep throat. You know what I mean? Like even that, he would like no porn directors and like all tours and like, oh, this is how it used to be. This is what Paul Thomas Anderson based Boogie Nights on this director. Like, just right. And so I was like he had every comedy album. Bill Hicks, we used to watch. Yeah, he had Bill Hicks stuff. Lenny Bruce, all these like obscure comics. But then also all the great ones to like at the current contemporary was Patton Oswalt. This is the thing to write before I started stand up. So this is like 2007, maybe 2006 to 2009. I lived with Jimmy. This is like Patton Oswalt's hey, this is like werewolves and lollipops. David Cross's Let Let America Laugh or Shut Up, You Fucking Baby. These were all coming out and they were just like they were amazing. And we used to listen to all that. We even listened to like we weren't pretentious either. Like if it was good, it was good. We used to listen to Dane Cook's Harmful When Swallowed. And we thought that was great. Brian Regan was a big one. We used to listen to Brian. So then I got a job. I was delivering pizzas and I used to just drive around and listen to all these albums. So I feel like when I started stand up as well, I also had a much richer catalog, whereas some other people I felt like were were kind of because you copy everyone. And I certainly copied people that were contemporary. I copied Bill Burr for a couple of months, but there was like, I just felt like they were kind of copying more contemporary comedians, whereas I was able to maybe hide my influences because they were so obscure. So I'd be doing like influenced by Bill Hicks, influenced by Don Rickles and things like that. And it just I think it made for like kind of a richer palette in the beginning. So that was short answer. Yes, I was a huge comedy nerd and I still am. That go for Jimmy. Jimmy's just in the background being like, well, he's your coach in the background in the shadows. Yeah, I was trying to mention that whenever I can, because I don't know how many times I've actually ever been able to tell him that. But, you know, he was a huge influence on me, just not even comedy. Like he was like he was like this punk rocker who drank a lot, but was also had an English degree. He might have went to SDSU as well. Is that where you went? SDSU? Only for six months, but yeah, I went to SDSU. Yeah. And. And he was kind of like he kind of enjoyed this like literary romanticism of like he's really smart, but he's not. But he worked at 7-Eleven and he did that like his. OK. The his life was like so enmeshed in his pop culture, like I think he was really inspired by the movie Clerks in some way. And like in that regard, I mean, he wouldn't say that out because he had so many influences, but I think he enjoyed being qualified to have a better job, being super smart, but just choosing to work at 7-Eleven. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like just I don't know. And so put that. But I to keep up with him, I went back to college because I realized when I met him that like I hadn't been reading a lot. I wasn't like, you know, educating myself. And I he made it look kind of cool. And I was like, oh, it's cool to know shit and to be smart. And just the more tools you have to work with, especially with what how I improvise on stage, like the more things I have in there, the more I can work with. And so I went back to college for two years and then I was going to be a psychologist and then I found stand up. And that was it. Find the studies instead of studying. Yeah. So what about weird gigs in the early days we do? Any? Yeah, man. But you must have been a monster at the weird gigs because of the being in the room. Well, I could. But see, I didn't always have a handle on it. So, you know, sometimes it would just go awry. You like I didn't know. I mean, this is how early do you want to go? Because I've been going a while now. You say early, I could go back to, you know, there's there's San Diego, there's Hollywood, there's when I moved here. Well, when I say weird, what comes to mind immediately? Well, when we were in San Diego, we used to do this gig called the Blarney Stone. And it was this Irish pub. It was an Irish pub in San Diego, California, in a strip mall. And it was just like they had an open mic. But nobody in no patron of the bar ever said, hey, we should have an open mic. I don't know why. I it was hard to like I feel bad for them because I was like, I don't disagree with you. You guys want to come drink in a dark Irish pub. And yet and like we're just doing standup comedy to you. On Sunday, hated it. It was like probably one Irish person got drunk. They will do it. I like the calm. We just completely forgot about it. And people just kept showing up. Yeah, that's what it seemed like from the get go. We like, OK, I'm going to be a comedian in my life or what? Yeah. From like doing when you did the open mics was the motivation. Like, OK, I want to make that. Yeah. It was like I remember started out and I did like two weeks for two weeks, I was like, OK, all. Because my girlfriend, my I was married, she was my she was coming back. My partner was coming back. And I was like, well, I'll do it like once or twice a week. But then the more I read about it, because now I'm like, once that like addictive nerd brain kicks in, I was like, so now I'm like, I'm so stoked. I start reading interviews with Pat Nozwell. I start reading interviews with like all these comics. And they're like, you got to go on stage every night, five times a night, just nonstop. And I was like, all right, if I really want to get good at this, I got to go every night. And then so I think the first two weeks, I went up like three or four times, maybe a week, maybe twice a week. And then after that, I just was crazy. Went every night. What other stuff were you nerd and I don't? You mentioned the Pat Nozwell interviews. Is there anything else that comes to mind? Yeah, we just read. I remember like it was always about writing and getting better. And so I read like, yeah, I'm the Jerry Seinfeld thing of like every day you just put an X on the calendar and try not to break the chain. So you write every day for an hour and just every time you do it, just X, X, X, X, X all the way across. And this is a really dumb question, but you still do the writing of just general ideas that you can bring up. I don't really know how it works at your shows. Dude, sometimes I do. Yeah, like lately, I kind of enjoy it. Sometimes I'll get up and just, yeah, just journal, write like three pages, whatever that like morning pages is. And then I'll do like, but you know what? Now I don't do an hour. I think it's like I think the best thing you can learn is because a comic is like, if you just do a little bit every day, you're good. Like whether it's watching a video, doing whatever I do, like. When I'm in the when I'm in a good groove, I'll get up, I'll meditate. This is my morning routine. I'll get up, I'll meditate for 20 minutes. That's really important for me. I find that, you know, really helps. And then I'll write like 30 minutes. But does the writing then, how does that go on stage? It's hard to tell, dude, because. I don't really know. I find the writing more efficient these days for I'm trying to like do more social media stuff. I find that writing has so far helped me more with that and and it much so less goes on stage, because honestly, what usually happens is I go on stage and like last night I tried this bit about flying and I was talking about I don't like to fly and I got to fly tomorrow. And I'm like, I'm talking about flying and like I just came up with all this stuff. About one time I walked off a plane. I was like while I was on the ground, I was like walked off. And basically it was a package holiday that I was going to do a gig there. And I just so last time I'm on stage, that's all I got. I'm going to tell them this time. And then in the moment, I just start going because, you know, British people go to these packaged holidays. And if you don't know what that is, it's basically like they go to another country and do not engage with the culture whatsoever. To the point that you don't even you wouldn't even know you're in the country. I think the plane just goes in the air, does a couple of circles and then drops you back down into like Pinewood Studios. And it's just a fake reality. So like all that, right? That's working. Yeah. And it works. And my girlfriend goes, what was all that? And I said, she's like, did you? Did you know you were going to do that? And I was like, no. So like I saw it's not super important, but like like lately, most of it comes out of being up on stage, you know, and I got to really push it. Like I did this bit on Stand Up Sketch Show about being on a bus with these kids. And these kids were like eight years old or something. And they were like trying to fight me. And for the longest time, because I'm trying to write more just to get you just to get good at it. And it was like for the longest time I had like I was on this bus. These eight year old kids try to fight me. And then there was like one more line. And that was it. I could not. It would just go to here. Dead. Here. Dead. Just couldn't get anywhere. And I kept trying it, kept doing it. And one night in Birmingham, I was like, I got to the sticking point and I almost had like a like a breakdown, but I was like, all right, like this bit never works after this. So I'm just going to work. I'm staying in it. And the crowd's like, all right. Oh, you're saying that. Yeah. I'm like, we're staying in it. And then I and then because that was so stupid, I basically said like, and you know what? What's just me? Like I started going crazy. I was like, because the driver like and then I just went on this crazy because now they know I'm just making it up and it's stupid. I turned it into this whole ridiculous thing where the kids attacked me and it's like Kill Bill and the drivers got no shirt on. And it's an action movie. And I made the whole thing kind of up. And then I got off stage and was like and it worked. But it was like funny in a in a kind of like we knew they were making it up. But when I got off stage, I kind of like later realized that actually everything I did would work if I pieced it together in a certain way, because what I did was I I made the bit about getting kind of like, you know, when like someone backs you down and then you sit and think of what you would have done. So the bit turned into. Um, I take the moment where like they're going to fight me and all this crazy stuff happens and it gets so out of control just when the crowd is like, what? And then I pull it back and go, all that was going on in my brain as I sat there, miserable that I had back. Yeah. And it was like that was kind of the first bit in the last like year and a half where I went, oh, wow, I learned a lot. I was like, if you can write these things, if you just you just stay in it and just. Wrestle with it and yeah, but that's so maybe that's bad, but so brave. Like you from the get go, if you've been doing that, people must have been trying to force you to do something else from day to. Yeah, I mean, people like, I don't know, I think it's weird because like someone would be like, oh, he's like, that's like fearless, you go up. But it's like, it's weird because I'm actually it's just an inverse thing. I'm like more I'm more uncomfortable just telling jokes, whereas more people are more comfortable telling jokes. So that's all there is. That's all it is to me. I I have the same kind of like awe for people who do, you know, certain other types of of stand up. Well, from the little I've seen so far, there's no one I've seen that goes up with like completely. Well, I am saying obviously, but it's different what you're doing because you're building the whole show. Yeah. But there's no one I've seen that does. So because I love talking to the crowd. Yeah. But I've been told by people like, oh, no, don't do that because it's not fair. Then if like a one liner comes up and just has to do one lines, are they going to get too rowdy or they and I was like, oh, OK. But yeah, that's people do that. Oh, well, listen, people have been. I don't think I was. I'm not everyone's favorite comic to have on the bill. I know that. And some people like me as an emcee and some people probably don't. And I think I've become a much better emcee because I do think there is an element of like. Do the thing and then kind of, you know, bring them on. But. I think there's more people who subscribe to my mentality. They're like. You should not be worrying about making it better for the net. Like, that's just stupid. Who says that? And I want to know. No, like, I mean, because like people told me that stuff all the time. They'd be like, you can't do that because it'll make it this for the next guy. Like, well, I don't understand. Are we all? I guess I'm more of a American capitalist mindset where I'm like, if we all just do the best show we can, it will be a good show. Whereas some people come at it for more of a communal experience, where it's like, don't get them too rowdy because the next guy is a one liner. But I think if I destroy and then he comes on, he should just be. It's his job to reset to whatever you did. I think and I think most I think it's it's not giving crowds enough credit. But even even that, like, where does this all come from? Like this, I'll do what I want to do. Because that's quite rare here, is it? Or you just I suppose it's really artistic. You think so? Yeah, to be like, to be like, I'll just do what I do. Well, I think it's just like you. What can you do? Like, what if you're the one liner comic and you're like, I tell one liners, that's who I am. That's what that's what's inside me. And then someone goes, well, you shouldn't do that, because then this next guy is coming on and he's improvising. And they're going to think. But even outside of that weird, like, critique I've had in the past, like, who do I think I am? Who do you think you are? No, it's just really impressive that you've said no, because you must have, I just imagine you felt so many people criticizing it. Yeah, I did in the beginning. I had a lot of people be like, I had a lot of people say, you're not going to get anywhere with that. And then, like, I just kept getting gigs and I kept moving around the world. And I was like, well, I'm working. So we have another one. Yeah, I was like, I don't know. And like, yeah, I like I am like now in this like new phase of my journey where I'm like, I'm trying to let go of any. I'm trying not to limit myself even by that moniker of like, oh, he just improvises. Now I'm like, I do. I can do it. I'm trying to do whatever I want. And it's fun again, because I'm like stand up is like when I was a beginner again. I'm just like, I don't know. Like last night, I tried like some ideas and they worked and I did that whole flying thing and it felt great because it's like actually personal. And that's just like another layer to the show I'm adding. And I just. So I really enjoy that. But yeah, people used to just be you're you're at a phase, right? You're new. And this is the time when everyone's going to try to give you advice. You're like a baby. OK, and and then you have all these surrogate parents and they're just going to pollute your little mind. They mean well, just like your own parents. But inevitably, a lot of their advice, much like your own parents, is going to ruin you. And they didn't mean to, but it's just going to like make you in the end of the day, dude, like nobody knows. They're only telling you what they know. And every new comic is a different beast. So the best you can really do with a comedian is just like kind of like hands off, let them go, I think. Some people have been given advice that genuinely I have. I was given great advice once. One time, one time, one man. It is true. Most of the advice. Yeah, him definitely. Now, I remember there was this kid named Joe King and like, I thought I was really good. And then I watched him like do stand up. And he was so funny. And he's like still in L.A., I think. But he was he came down to San Diego and he was so silly, so ridiculous. And I could tell watching him, there's no way he wrote these jokes on paper. Do you know what I mean? These jokes were discovered through just going up there and because you couldn't write the jokes he was doing, dude, I can't even tell you. What were some of the jokes? His jokes were so surreal and disgusting. They were like they were like they were like like so they're funny, man. It was like dick jokes, but like abstract dick jokes. That's what they were like. Abstract dick jokes. That's that's what I would say his style is. And I remember he got off stage and he had seen me go up and I was so new. And I was like just doing jokes. And he was like, you know, he gave me the best advice I could have heard at the moment. He goes, you know how fun standup looked before you were a comedian and you would watch it on TV? He was you should have that much fun. And it was like, whoa, that blew my mind because I was taking it really seriously. I was one of those comedians who's new. And like I see this today still new comedians talking about how hard it is. And I'm like, you're doing it wrong. If you're already like, it's hard, it's miserable. Comedy sucks. And you see those guys, some comics, because they use that as a way to justify like not really getting ahead or something. And they'll be like, it sucks. It's hard. Then everything sucks. And they're like there are elements when you get older and into it more where you're like, this sucks, this is hard. But on the whole, like not to the degree they're talking about. And so he said that to me. I was like, I just realized I was like, dude, I'm not I'm not doing what I saw when I was a kid, when I watched Chris Rock on TV and I thought, oh, that's even though now I know there's so much like structure to that. But to me, he was just having a blast and like Dane Cook or whatever those guys are. I mean, he was kind of not when I was a kid. He was later, but I was like, oh, and then I just scrapped my whole act. And for like two years, a year, I was basically did an impression of him for like six months. And then I saw Judah Friedlander at that time, and he's the same. He's like so fun. He was just being really cocky and funny up there. And I just needed that advice. I just messed around and just found that's how I learned the kind of improv style and all that stuff. I was just being silly. I still like this comic in America named Brody Stevens. And he was like that, too. He made me just just go up and have fun. But yeah, so some of the advice is good. But but advice like that, I don't know. Yeah, people just say that to me all the time. They say you're not going to get anywhere with this. They'd say if you do that, it makes every I had headliners complain a lot because and I get it. I mean, like I was a feature act in America. The show goes straight in, at least in this country. You get a break. It was like I'd go on for 25 minutes, do. Improv crowd work to. That's yeah, I would do crowd work to 25 for 25 minutes in San Diego, because that's where like my hometown was. So I'm probably doing local references and stuff. And then this guy would have to come on and headline. And yes, some of them really didn't like it. But some of them didn't care at all. And those guys were usually really good. And I respected that. I was like, oh, wow. This guy was like, I remember some guys would just be like, do whatever you want, because I'm going to come in. And they're going to forget all about you. And I was like, but to me, I was always like, I respect that. Yeah. But they wouldn't say that. But I like took that as like it was they were just really nice. They'd be like, just do whatever you want. OK. And I was like, that's where you really want to get to. You don't want to be at the point where you're like, if if the guy before me says the word blue, then that's going to ruin my whole day. You should be like on such another level that it's like. There's not there. You can't you're not going to mess me up at all. Did you have to study improv at all? I never did improv. No, I've done it since a couple of times. I never stuck with it, though. I've only done it. It was after I'd been a comedian like 10 years. I went to a class at the Free Association. I did it like twice. I did two intensives and I might complete it just to do it. I've always wanted to take a clowning course to say much. It was I had elf lions on. She was very good. She's talking about climbing. But do you have real like if you didn't take any formal, have you built up rules over the years for when you're on stage, like how to handle a situation? I have. Yeah. What sort of rules have you got? So I developed these three rules. So I did read a book once. It was called Truth in Comedy. And this was really good because it was by Del Close. And I ordered it today. I just wanted to. It's a good book. I said, really good one. And mine's got a bunch of notes in it. And this is like the only thing I've ever really read. And the main principles in that are really they're really good. I mean, the guy knew what he was talking about is one of the things was don't ask questions. So I try not to do that because it puts it on the onus on them. It doesn't really help move it forward. So I tried. I was like, oh, I'll try that. So I wouldn't ask questions. I try not to go like blue because that just takes it down a dead end. I think that's another one of his. And then another one I would try to do is when I hooked on to an idea, I would always just try to expand it as far as I could. And that guy got better at that. So, you know, I would like. So if you if you cut things off and this is with anything, even if like material like lately, I've been trying to write five minutes a month. And like what I do is like I've realized now if I have like five minutes, I look at like let's say I have 20 minutes now. I look at it and I go, OK, it's pretty heavy on like I've talked about being American. I talked about that. So let's cut that off. Now that you have limited access to that, you've got to go somewhere else. And you're like, well, let's let's go here. Like we've got to talk about flying now and it gets better. And so I think the same thing with improv, if you go, I'm not going to do that. So you've cut that off. What is it? Necessity is the mother of invention. So once I stopped going, what's your name? What do you do? I'd be like, you go do something else. So I would like make little stories up based on what they looked like or wait for someone to heckle and then use that. And also, I learned another thing was. So then I was so that's what I do. So I'd be like, you know, like any honestly. And then from Eddie Izzard, I learned you could do it about anything. So you can start with the walls. Just just try it as an exercise, like just to get on stage and you just start going like, you know, I love I love the white walls in this room. It's like I'm in a padded cell of, you know, there you go. Boom. And now you're going and you're going. And then if you can really hook on to something, maybe someone you mix a little bit of improv with the crowd in. I'd be like, oh, I've got a little thing because I'd be like, oh, you're like I imagine you down at the sounds are stupid when I do it now. But it's like, hey, you're down to the race car plant. And I'd be like, well, maybe I'd do that for like two seconds. But then, like, as I go, I would be like, dude, stay in that. Get the first laugh, try to get a second one and then stay longer because you would get into this thing where it'd be like, laugh, laugh. Now you're in like now you're doing like a play. You know, you're doing like a little scene. And I was always really intrigued by that. Like, how far can I take these little things? So that's kind of so, yeah, no, no, I wouldn't ask any questions. I would try not to go dirty because if you don't, because if you go straight to this guy's jacket off on a train, you're just there now. But if you again, if you eliminate that, what else is he doing on the train? Because there's only if you look at it like rooms, it's like you've got one room where there's just dirty sex. OK, great. But then. If you don't say that, the infinite amount of possibilities other than that are just so much more and they go in different directions. Once he's jerking off on the train, he's not. What else are you going to do? He's going to finish and get arrested. That's it. I don't know. Here's the pottery room. Yeah, it's like, but if you go, he's not jacking off. What's he doing? Oh, he's like, I don't know. He's reading a comic book. He's got like whatever it is, and you could just go on other stuff. And then, yes, so I'd stretch it out. So those are my like three. Those are my basic little tenants that I would stick with. And I find that if I execute those things, it's a better show for me. I usually feel much better. And it takes me to a place that I'm like interested in. Must have been in some crazy places on the stage, like with some ideas or whatever. And then like clothes and say if you've had a particularly tough set. What? Say if you've had a particularly tough set and you can't have a closer. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's happened a lot. Actually, that was a thing I learned in improv, man. Oh, Daniel Kitson as well. I was watching that. So that was a huge problem. I would do this show, all these things, and I just couldn't close it. I didn't know how because it's because I didn't have a closer. It was like I needed a thing to happen. And then you can get into this territory where they're like, oh, he's trying to close it. They're like, now it's all weird. Like, we know you're trying to close it. So there's three things, one improv class. That actually was good for the they were like, there's the ending. When you see the ending, just take it and go. Because I would get greedy because it's kind of that thing of like it was like what made me a better comic. But it was also like, oh, I got a big laugh here. But what if I keep what's out here? Because I want to find more. I think that's good for my development. But after a while, I was like, OK, I have also recognized now. Like, there it is. And you don't know it until you see it right as it pops up. Be like, that's the ending. And then another time I was on stage, I was taking ages. Couldn't figure out how to end it. Tony Law comes in the room because he was doubling somewhere else. And he was driving me home. And I go, Tony, I don't know how to end it. And he goes, how about just good night? Which I was I was like, yeah, I've totally forgot. You can just do that. That's a great thing to remember. Like, you can just get a laugh or not and just say, anyway, listen, guys, you've been great. Good night. Just see you later. Because they're not going to forget all the it doesn't negate the ending or all the stuff before it. And then I saw Daniel Kitson in Edinburgh. He was doing these 90 minute shows where he was just improvising. He was trying to write material, but he was just messing around. The thing I noticed about Daniel is that he really appears to not care on whether or not that's true. I realized he wasn't trying to end it. He like didn't really care if it ended in a way. And he always found an ending. And to me, I think it was because he just was so relaxed that it would just happen organically. He had to form a super comedian from three comedians. Who are you choosing? Oh, wow. Honestly, I think it sounds is ridiculous. I think there is a super comedian. I think I think whatever I was going to do, he would just become Dave Chappelle. Oh, cool. But who would I make? Who? Gosh. What would you choose from Dave Chappelle? I think I would just be able to just take Dave Chappelle as a whole and attach to other people. Because I think Dave Chappelle, in some of his routines, has encompassed everything I love about stand up is like. He's got this bit that I aspire to. And this is why I was so proud of that bus bit that's on that I got to do for ITV, because I always wanted a long, silly, abstract bit, because in his first special, Killing Them Softly, Dave Chappelle does this story about being in the hood and seeing a baby on the corner selling crack. And it's like a 20 minute story. And what I love about his style of stand up is that at no point does he like he'll just take you on this journey and it gets surreal. But at no point does he like acknowledge that now we've we've departed from the standard rules of logic. You know, he'll just tell you super serious. He's like, then I open the window. There was a baby out there selling crack. And it's like there wasn't. But he's done so we're just in. And it makes no sense. Great. So I have like always just like that to me has been the bellwether of like, I want to write a that is the pinnacle of comedy for me. That 20 minute routine about a baby selling crack on the corner is for me the apex of the art form. I don't know, personally. But like, I don't know, I'd probably take like Ross Noble's improv. Mix it with like Chappelle's material. You know, that story about the baby selling crack. Three comedians. Oh, and oh, and like maybe like. Carlin's the best of Carlin's kind of. Perspective, like political perspective on social, socio political stuff. That would be a super comic, dude, in the room can tell big stories, and they have like an insanely coherent point. Like, you know, like some of the stuff Carlin would say was like. Yeah, it'd be like that totally would work. Like, why don't we do that? You know, he'd be like, why don't we get rid of golf courses and cemeteries and build affordable housing? And you're like, yeah, why don't we do that? Someone like that's an actually good point. Yeah. With that, we're coming up. If you get any any thoughts on it, you still do it. I will do it. I know you've done it a lot. I have done it a lot. I don't really feel like I've done it for real. You know, I have gone to the city of Edinburgh and performed stand up comedy while the Edinburgh Festival happened. The Edinburgh Festival was like over here and I was down on cowgate performing like almost like willingly a part of the festival. But like stupidly thinking like I was going to like this is the thing. Oh, I've always been I'm like, well, I'm going to like destroy. I'm going to like burn the Edinburgh Festival down and make my own. I'm going to be like the improv. I'm going to win an improv award. And then they're going to and then I'm going to give the speech and like say, that's right. Suck it. All of you. But like, right. Your material. And so so I feel like I'm going to do it next year. But for just for me personally, I want to go to I want to do the whole thing that I never did, because I think I never really engaged with it. And I think it's a shame. I think there's a lot of really funny people who the people who run Edinburgh and run the entertainment industry and especially in this country, I don't I can't even speak that way. They don't necessarily they're like. They're not necessarily in touch with like a certain type of comedian, like a comic who wants to be a comic who's artistic and creative and and maybe a bit uncomfortable in a Soho house. Their world is like and it's taken me a long time to get to that level where now I'm comfortable in all those areas. So I run in those circles and I meet these people. And I realize like back in the day, you know, it's probably my fault. You know, like I. Purposely shied away from engaging with certain aspects of the industry. Either I was afraid of rejection or like you talk about that punk rock spirit. Like it was a bit maybe it was a bit too much or I was like, I'm not I'm not asking you for any favors. I don't I'm I'm I'm on my own. And then after a while, you're like, oh, I'm on my own. You're like, oh, hi, my name is Russell. So it's like I think that. Yeah, next year, I think I'll do it. I'm but I'm a little concerned as much as I'm like, oh, I want to go to the Pleasance. This is like for me, I try to explain this to people. It's like for me to do a good show in a paid venue with the whole posters and all that and just do that thing that I never did because I'm at a point that I could do it now is like for me personally, I want to do that. But I can't get on board with because I'm still a I've always operated like I think people would be surprised in this industry to know how together I've like I think maybe there was a solution that also lives in some hut somewhere like not at all. I don't want to say businessman, but like smart enough to know that like I can't get on board with I'm talking to people and I'm like, if you sell out your whole run, you lose 2500 pounds. That's it doesn't make any sense to me. Even as an investment in your career, I think it's a great investment. But how do you justify selling out an entire run at like a place like the Pleasance and losing 2500 pounds? I just don't get that. So I'm having a little trouble with that. So maybe like I'll try to ask those guys at Monkey Barrel or something. Have you always been the savvy? I got savvy with business and stuff. It was only like when I started making a living as a comedian, suddenly I was like, this money felt real. And I was like, it was more out of like, I wanted to maintain this lifestyle. I was like, this is great. I need to hang on to this. I don't want to ever have to work a day job again. Like I hated working beyond anything you could possibly imagine. And I was like, I need to hang on to this. So then just by, by again, necessity, I just started to learn like, I've never been good with money. So I got some books on it, learned it and just got better at it. And there's a lot of guys like that out there, man. Like, you know, I know Axel Blake's really switched on with that. Well, it gives them a chance to be an artist, I suppose. What's that? They need to have that in the background so they have the freedom to like not have. That's what I'm saying is like, you realize it's, it's not born out of like avarice or like, I want this. It's, it's, it comes from this place of like, you get older and realize it helps you to, you create a space for yourself where you can be more creative. And I think a lot of comedians get switched on with these kinds of things because they're like, this will make it easy for me to do this. So I cannot go back to the office. Exactly. It's that feet in the fire thing. And you're like, okay. And the next thing you know, you like, you know, taxes, like you know how to do your taxes and stuff. And you're like, I would have never learned this because when it was office money, I was like, who cares? You know what I mean? I don't care. What? Yeah. I don't want to maintain this. Yeah. So I will probably go to Edmund next year. I'm trying to, I'm working on a show that I think enables me. I've been doing it. Like I've been doing it around. I've been doing it's called Russell Hicks makes friends and I've been doing it at shows locally, did one at 21. So it's like a way the theme helps me to speak to the audience. So it's like all mixed in and like how I can, so it's a way to talk to the crowd as like part of the thing. Like I'm making friends in the crowd. Yeah. So I think are you going this year? Oh yeah. Just a, just a split though. So that's good. I'm excited to do it. That's good. I wish I would have done that to be honest, man. I went to Edmund in 2014. I had no idea what I was getting into. I had just moved here. I barely knew what it was. And I said to myself, you know what? I think I'm going to do, I looked at the brochure or something. I read something and I was like, I think it says you're like officially in the festival. If you do 55 minutes, I was like, I'm going to do 45 just to feel it out, which was a great idea. And then for whatever reason I was up there. Okay. I'm doing an improvised show called unprepared. It's at, it's at 11 30 PM at the Tron, right? Okay. These are not like, honestly, I, I broke, if you, if you, if you said to me, how could you, what was the best way to not be considered for any type of award review or television notoriety, I'd say, uh, do these things, 11 30 PM at the Tron, uh, no totally improvised show. Like, and then I was up there and I did about two shows and I, it's, it's no one's fault. I don't want to like throw anyone on the bus, but I was kind of told by someone you should do, uh, this is a great show. We're going to bump you up right now. I've talked to the people at Edinburgh, you're eligible for the newcomer. Let's do it. And I remember going, yeah, why not? And, and, but I knew it was the wrong move because I blew that thing, which is good because I think I thought at, again, I try to, I make things hard for myself and I don't know why I remember thinking like, well, good, because then if I blow this, this means that if I ever went there and had to like win something, it would be, I'd have to win the main one, not the like new one. Um, and then, you know, over the years, I've thought, what, like, you imagine if I just went now, you know, that like whatever Mickey Flanagan did where he was like a comic for 50 years and then he showed up and was like, oh, I'm brand new, unprepared. Yeah. We're like, oh, newcomer award. Like crazy. He was like 45 years old. You know what I mean? It's like giving a fucking like high school diploma to like a 55 year old man. It's like, he was like winning a spelling bee. You're like eight year olds and you're just like a fully grown man. So I don't know. I like often thought, ah, damn it. I can just go up now, do all the posters, newcomer. Not that that always works, but anyway. Thank you so much for coming. That was, that was great. Let's end it on that super bitter rant. No, cause I always feel like I don't want to get into that thing where like, you know, um, like I don't have any regrets or anything, but you know, I feel like there are elements of like, when I got told to do that newcomer thing, you know, you can get into that kind of like on the waterfront, you know what I mean? Like you were supposed to look out for me. You were my big brother. It wasn't my brother though. It was my brother. What if it was my brother showed up? He's like, bro, it's a pop culture. Do that award, dude. Fucking get in it. And I was like, he's never steered me wrong before, but it all worked out. Like it, you know, it's like been great. Yeah. I wait. Yeah. It's just that thing for Edinburgh. It's just an Edinburgh thing, but it's the thing I want to go back and do. Lester has always been good to me. I love the Lester festival. I was going to say, like, did you ever have issues with competitions or getting an agent or anything? Cause like you're making people like have the greatest time issues. What do you mean getting them? Was it hard? Hard? Um, I don't know. I think when I look back on it, I've always kind of had an agent, like I had an agent when I first moved here, got signed up with them. And then I was with another agent, uh, which I've just recently left. So I'm on the market. And, uh, so I've only had two agents, um, since I've been here and now I'm on my own. And what's great, but see, I'm in a place right now where like I'm on my own, but it's like, I think a lot of people are going through this, like there is so much you can achieve. Like I have agents for other things and those things are going great. And you kind of get to this point with comedy where you're like, if my Instagram is doing well, which my Instagram now is like, okay. And it's like, you probably the same, you can like, the people will come out. And so the level of like what an agent can do for you is the, is a very small amount of things where you're like, unless you can do these, I don't really know. Yeah. So you know what I mean? Like the, especially when you're all leave so much improvised, like the folks prepared man for the internet age. I know you were, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Like putting stuff out. Yeah. Like, I don't know. It's like, you can like go on your own tour. You can basically get a following on online and then go on your own tour and just be booking your own stuff. And I don't know, then you can do a podcast like this. It's, it gets to a point where you're kind of like, I don't really know. I mean, look at, look at like Milo, um, McCabe, like he went to Edinburgh. I'm pretty sure he sold out the entire run and then had to move to like a huge theater. And it's like, I don't think he got nominated for an award or anything, but it's like, that's kind of a good example of like, but does that matter? I mean, he's, it's kind of, I'm surprised he didn't get nominated to be honest. I thought it was a shoe in, um, but he's like, he was like selling out gigantic halls in, in Edinburgh. And I think that was a good sort of micro, um, cause of like the disparity right now between like, you know, he's not getting like the little button, but when you look at it, we all, I think we all have to look at like, I've always thought that with the Edinburgh award, actually, I thought people, some people want to go there and win the award because they think it will like complete their entire life. Um, but actually what you should really focus on is that it's like, it, well, I used to say this, I don't actually know that I believe this so much, but I used to think like it, cause the prize money is like 10 grand or something. A lot of people didn't know that. And I thought, well, that's a healthier thing to go for, uh, rather than just, cause you can chase approval and validation. We all want validation, which is just so sad cause you know, what is that validation? Do you know what I mean? From who? From what? Validate yourself right now. Which camera am I on? Hey, you're enough. I think that's always positive and in the air enough. And I've had enough of that. Thank you very much for cause. I think you got anything to share Russell. I mean, I, I pretty sure I just shared for 75 minutes. Oh, is that the least amount you've talked on this podcast? I thought it just went. Um, um, yeah. At Russell Hicks on Instagram. Do you say at is that just like, did I sound like a boomer? Yeah. www.instagram.com. Um, accessible from all good desktop computers. Uh, Russell Hicks on Instagram. And then I think it's like Russell Hicks comedy on Tik TOK. It comes up first on Tik TOK, but who knows if that'll be around for long. Yeah. Loads of shows as well. You work a lot of shows coming up. Oh, those shows coming up. Actually I'm doing one at two North down. Um, it's called Russell Hicks makes friends. If anyone saw it at the 21 Soho, it's different. This is a work in progress, but I'm actually going to bring two comedians on. I can just tell you, it's Dane Baptiste and Finlay Christie are going to come on and then I'm going to do two microphones and I'm going to play around with them. I think we're going to film it and I'm looking to kind of do that as almost like a live podcast. So I'm going to see how that works out. I've had Finlay on that. He was very good as well. So yeah. Did he mention me all the time? The whole time? I would think so. It was a weird like homage to your life. Is there going to be a London day for that? Are you going to do that in London? Yeah. Two North down is in London. So just for me personally, no, I'll go. Yeah. Yeah. Two North down Kings cross, um, July 15th, sorry, July 15th at two North down Russell Hicks makes friends with Finland and yeah. Well, thank you for coming. Um, for everyone, the clips will now be posted on Kitten podcast and reach out to me with any feedback. Thank you very much for coming. Hey, man. Thanks. It was good to meet you, dude. Yeah. Nice to meet you. Thank you.