Elliot Steel: Starting Standup Comedy At 16, Nepotism and Brazilian jiu-jitsu

In this episode of "Kidding," Reece Kidd chat with British comedian, Elliot Steel. Despite being in his twenties, Elliot boasts the wisdom and wit of a comedy veteran, having started at sixteen.

Elliot's distinctive brand of comedy, dark yet intelligent, has resonated with audiences and critics alike, catapulting him into the spotlight as a voice for those navigating their mid-twenties. His multiple viral clips and impressive performances have solidified his status as a rising star on the UK's comedy circuit.

"The Independent" has marked Elliot as "one to watch," and he received critical acclaim at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival with his show "Merked" in 2019. With appearances on Comedy Central's "Roast Battle" and "Comedy Central at the Comedy Store," as well as contributions to BBC Radio 1's "Comedy Lounge" and BBC Radio 4, Elliot Steel is a dynamic force in the world of comedy.

As Reece delves into the interview, they explore a myriad of topics. They dissect the challenges and opportunities of starting comedy at a young age with a comedy background, touching on the benefits of early confidence and the potential hindrances to long-term growth. The conversation takes an intriguing turn as they discuss nepotism in comedy and privilege, highlighting the importance of working harder to prove doubters wrong.

Elliot shares insights into the unique confidence that private school can instill, offering a glimpse into the world of the comedy elite. They also delve into the art of interviewing and its role in honing comedic skills. The challenges of stand-up comedy, including hosting difficult gigs and learning through act outs, are thoroughly explored.

The discussion turns introspective as they delve into the struggles of writing and self-judgment in comedy, along with the power of incorporating personal challenges into one's material. Elliot Steel also shines a spotlight on fellow comedian Daniel Sloss, whose talent he believes has been overlooked.

Elliot's goes into his martial arts experience, including his "blue belt phase" and the inevitable white belt embarrassments. 

Tune in for a chat with  a young comedian who is unafraid to tackle dark and intelligent humor while navigating the complexities of the comedy world. 

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Transcript

0:07

So I'm here with Elliot Steele. He's been performing stand-up comedy since he was 16. He's appeared on Comedy Central's Roast Bottle and voiced Ashley on BBC Radio 4's programme Unite with his dad, Mark Steele. He co-wrote Unite with Ivo Graham and he's performed several stand-up shows at Edinburgh Fringe. His show in 2023 will be Love and Hate Speech. He's done loads else but he's been too modest I admit it. I really don't like reading the bio but I have to just for everyone. It's like you can tell who writes their bio themselves and who doesn't because when someone's bio really bigs them up you know they've written it and when it's just like yeah I got my agent like some intern half-arsed it at an agency and that's now what I used to sell to people. I wonder why I'm not on Netflix or something because that's the bio they send to people. Well, thank you for coming. Starting at 16, we'll just go straight into it. Starting at 16, that's mod. Yeah, what age did you start? Very recently. Oh, really? Yeah, I'm very new. How old are you, sir? I'm 28. Right, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's a... It's a silly age to start. I really don't, like, I was just playing Xbox in my room, dude, and if I had a mic, I wouldn't be here. I'd be dead. Oh, man. I... Yeah, I... Well, because I come from nepotism, I had like the best thing that a parent in an industry affords you is the idea, you know, it's a viable career path. And that, like, I know comedians who are successful whose parents don't really get what they do. And that sort of bugs on them that they, you know, they do something that they, they could like get nominated for like the main award at Edinburgh fringe. But then if they're in a tango advert, their parents are like, that's wow. And you're like, you know, cause they, they, you know, haven't been brought up with an understanding of this world. And so that, that's kind of what afforded me the ability to at 60, also I was a shit at school. I got kicked out of school. So I wasn't very good at education. I wasn't very good at learning or listening, which really held me back for the first five years of my career. Like I really fucked a lot of things up because I was too young. I was too, I was in like, you know, I didn't go through a uni phase or have a phase where I worked a proper job or have a phase where you get like a real wealth of life experience. I don't think life experience is important to talk about necessarily on, because people always used to say that on stage of like, well, what are you going to draw as life experience? It's like, well, I now travel around the world doing stuff. So I'm fine. Like I, cause I haven't worked in Costco. It doesn't mean like I haven't got, you know, a worldview, but, um, I do think, that it afforded me to be quite pretentious, quite arrogant, when I wasn't good enough to be any of those things. I don't think I'm good enough to be those things now, but like, nor should you, I think you need a little bit of arrogance and pretentiousness, like it does help, it does give you a bit of confidence, but I don't think I think if you don't have, you know, early on, get that stuff beaten out of you, it can cause problems. And what was the first gig you did? I did a gig called Old Rope, run by Tiff Stevenson, that my dad got for me. I went on, and there'll probably be people listening and watching going, no, it took me fucking years to get it. But I went on and I did well at 16. I was very confident. And when you're starting out, if you're really confident, you will sell bits. Like I wasn't a good comedian. I could half structure a joke and I liked being on stage. I enjoyed that. I didn't get, I got very nervous, but it was excitement as well. And that, and I then was gigging immediately with much better comedians than you usually start out with. And you are, when you are around better people, you become better. And for the first two years, I was better than someone, most people who start going for two years. I then stayed there for the next three to four years. I didn't progress because I was, you know, I was just like, well, I'm fucking better than ever. It was like a, it was like someone who was a good amateur. went to semi-pro and was still okay without doing much of the work, but then would never make professional because the work that was required and I wouldn't do it. I was just relying on my own arrogance and my own sort of, which was given to me by other people. Like it was my, the audience, the affirmation I got from an audience, other comedians, probably being nice because I'm my father's son. All of those things made me a lot, you know, very, very confident in myself, which eventually came back and bit me in the ass. But I mean, you also grew up with comedy. So I think I don't really, I don't think that's fair where people are just, they're going to say nepotism because you were surrounded by comedians. You probably watching comedy the whole time. So you're not really starting at 16. You're just like finally getting the microphone, I guess. Yeah. That's a good one. I used to write a lot of sketchy. I used to write standoff and stuff, but I never, I, you know, but you're right. Yeah. Like when you hang around funny people, you, I used to go to, loads of standup gigs with my dad, I used to go watch. My dad, I used to go to watch benefit shows and watch all these other comedians go on and be like, wow, this is amazing. So, cause I was doing that from like the age of seven. So, it's nepotism because the nepotism afforded me that. Having a parent in the industry afforded me that. What happened with the nepotism stuff? The reason I just decided to own it, cause it's funny, but I've only recently just started getting accused of nepotism because I'm starting to do well. Before, when I wasn't doing well, no one was like, look at this fucking nepo, baby. No one gave a fuck. And then when you start doing well, it comes, oh, well, this is because of nepotism. This is because of who your father is. This is because of this and that. And, you know, like I say, to a degree, they're correct. Absolutely. But also there is like the work you kind of have to put, like tomorrow, man, I'm going, Manchester to do a preview and then the trains are fucked. So I'm getting a coach at 1140 and getting into London. And getting into London at 6am and then have to get across London during a train strike. So like when people go nepotism, I sometimes go to myself, I still do that stuff. Like I still that's the work that it to me, it's not just sitting down and writing, it's the, all right, the next The next day is going to suck. That's what stand-up is. Have you done any of those kind of journeys? The Megabus? Yeah, I've been on the Zofran. But with stand-up, it's hard to accuse someone of nepotism because if you go to a room and you're just there because your dad's a comedian, no one's going to be like, oh, we're going to laugh out of sympathy. You have to deliver. Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's... There are comedians I know who come from nepotism who suck, like who aren't very good. There's some who are excellent, Ed Knight, Alfie Brown. You know, there's people I know who, but also there's people I know who's nepotism. who have a parent within like a media part of the industry and aren't honest about it, or you find out that, you know, someone will go, you know, but again, like I try, I, knowing I have been accused of nepotism, I don't hold that against people that just grew up in an industry. Like there's a comedian who's smashing it, who's very good, whose dad is like quite a big producer and people sometimes want to go, oh, but their dad's a producer. And you're like, yeah, but they still fucking, of course that's going to help. but they still smash the things they do and you can't take that away from it. Now they might, you know, be able to make a good body of work and then it's easier for them to go, oh, you should go and see my son's show, you know, to people within the industry. That's absolutely a thing that happens, but that's always gonna happen in whatever field you're in, I think, you know, and that is the problem. I think it's definitely harder for a lot of working class people in any facet of life because they, you know, not just the connections thing, from people I've met who've been to private school, and most of them are in comedy. They're like extremely confident because they're taught that they're worthy of being in society, whereas in a state school like I went to, you are not taught that. You were taught the opposite, that you are a nuisance, that you are in the way. And so that's another thing that I think, you know, yeah, I come from nepotism, but like, I look at people who go to private school and I'm like, that's just as big a leg up there, the confidence you are afforded, you know, by having things like Latin written on the wall, you walk into a situation where Latin is written on the wall and immediately don't feel uncomfortable. You immediately feel like you should be there. Whereas I would walk in and be like, I immediately have to stop myself from going, oh, fuck it, I don't belong here, I'm probably gonna steal something or do it, because I feel like I now don't belong in this environment, you know? And that's so huge, like, you know. That's something I think we, in life, have to acknowledge, not just within stand-up, that we have this thing where working-class people feel like they shouldn't be there, and that's why there's kind of kickbacks in comedy and stuff. There's always gonna be those sort of things. So what took you out of the arrogance when that period ended? It's kind of a wake-up call. I went to the fringe one year with a show that wasn't very good. I was going through What I now look back on, I was going through some very intense personal issues in my life, and I didn't really realize it at the time, because I was only 21, that my life was being very turbulent. Some of it my fault, some of it definitely not, because I was 21, and also people around you. And I went up there and I was going to the fringe, and because I was 21, my priority wasn't my show, my priority was going out, chatting to women and partying, which is what you do at 21. And I did that for a whole fringe and I fucked up everything. Like I nearly got dropped by my agent. I nearly, you know, everyone kind of saw me as like this idiot kid who has a parent in the industry and just takes everything for granted. And that's what I was. But no one said that to me. Like no one was like, this is how you're coming across. And then an agent, my agent took me aside and basically said that to me in a very stern way. And, you know, gave me one of the biggest talking downs I've ever had in my life. And then, yeah, I, you know, I quit drink for a while. I quit drugs for, you know, for a while. And then, I just got to work. I was just like, right, I want to prove everyone wrong. I really want to prove everything wrong. Nothing kind of, I'm quite masochistic, nothing quite inspires me like people thinking I can't do something. Someone who believes in me, I think there's something wrong with them. Don't you lie to me. You don't know me. I'm totally capable of fucking this up. When people were like, nah, I, I don't think you can do that. Or I don't think I'm, that fucking pisses me off. Like that's when I'm like, well, I'll show you. I love bitterness as a fuel man. Do you use it as a fuel? Someone bumped me on a gig once and I was like, I will start many nights and I will get revenge. And eventually it did happen. That getting bumped. There was a, there was a comedian I started with who like, This is how fucked up show business is, right? Me and this guy, we started at a similar age and he worked way harder than me at the beginning. And I was like the guy who was the new guy, the kid, the wonder kid who was smashing it and this stuff. And then I suddenly wasn't, and it was this person and I couldn't deal with it. I just couldn't fucking, I was like a footballer, like, you know, who you're doing well. And then you suddenly you dropped from the team and you can't get back in. You come like a deli ale. Like you just can't, you just can't get back in. And I felt like that for a few years. but I kept working and working and now it's put me in a position where I'm like happy with where I am so I kind of look at that person like oh really glad that they came along and sort of blew me out the water a little bit because it kicked my ass into gear. That's actually what I really think um I really like Vittorio because I think he's made a lot of people work harder because his work rate is fucking astounding. He was like, step it up boys. I didn't know Vittorio existed until I came to London. And all I heard was Vittorio Angeloni. I was like, who the fuck is this Italian guy? But yeah, he's amazing. I seen his show yesterday. Unbelievable. Yeah, he's brilliant. So good. He's brilliant. And he works super hard. He works super hard. And I'm like, right, if I'm going to compete, I have to work as hard as this guy. Like, I have to, and you know, that's the reason he's doing so well, because he's good, he's doing so well. He makes everyone work harder, like everyone. And so, yeah, there'll be a few comedians, I don't know, pick up on this, what I'm saying, and go like, man, what do you think? Like he does, like something like that comes along, they've not been going long, and they just blow everyone out of the water a little bit, and everyone kind of goes, All right, cool. Like, you know what I mean? You need that. Your iron sharpens iron. I think you need really good people to be competitive with, but not let it dominate your life. I think that's like a thing where people get too, I know people who are too, let the social media stuff get to them. You know, like the fact that you've been going two years and you set up a podcast is fucking astounding to me. It's dumb as well. No, it's not. It's not because you're learning how to broadcast. And when I first started, I used to go in every week for free onto fucking one of those like, not like talk radio. That was it. One of those Murdoch kind of stations. And I used to go in there and just do this new shit. I never got paid for it. I remember some of my friends were like, why aren't you? And I was like, yeah, but I'm learning how to be on a thing. And that's really like another part of something. It's like learning how to be comfortable in front of camera, learning how to, you know, like you're really good at, I'm annoying on podcasts because I can talk too much, but you're really good at just sitting back and listening. That's already, you're better than fucking 95%. of comedians at anything. That's why, that's why Rogan's a really good interviewer because people listen to Rogan Experience and think it's just, oh, it's just for a conversation about DMT. But he lets people talk for 45 minutes without saying anything and listens to what they're saying. Oh, thank you very much for that. Well, Victoria was a big inspiration here, but I came from startups and stuff. I failed at so many businesses, but so many. But so that's why I just kept, I just like iterating stuff and then I see Vittorio and seeing like the likes of Andrew Schultz, like years ago he was doing the clips and then people were like, what's this nerd doing? And I like, he's the king of everything. Yeah, I really like Andrew Shorts. I really like listening to him on stuff. I love his stand up. I think he's an incredibly perceptive, intelligent human being whenever I've listened to him on something. Also, his understanding of comedy is phenomenal. Like the way he breaks it down when I listen to him. Cause sometimes I think comedians talk about comedy, you can get a bit like, but I could listen to him talk about it all the time. Cause I'm like, oh, you really understand this. You really love this. And he as well likes bringing people. I think that's another thing is when you get to a successful level, you have to bring people up. You have to bring a few people up with you. And I know some comedians who are successful who don't do that. And then I think you also need to surround yourself with people who are honest about your work. I know there's like comics I know, who are really successful, who have people, who will ask us honestly. So I know Mylon McKay, who does Troy Hawks stuff really well. And what's really cool about the relationship we have is we have this thing where we can be very honest with each other without the other person asking or going, hey man, I saw that bit or that clip you put out. I didn't like that. I think what you, or no, you wouldn't say I didn't like that. You go, I think you're onto something more interesting with this or with that. And it, you know, I think that that makes you a lot better when you have people around you who are like, don't say that that's shit. Cause that's a rude thing to say to someone, but it's like, yeah, I think you're better than this. Did you decide to do that for each other or did it just happen? It just kind of happened, just sort of happened. You know, he's again, he's one of the hardest workers I know. Like Milo, what's really interesting about his success is he has done all of the worst gigs for years, all of them. So what's really interesting for me at the moment with the social media blob is as people who do sketches on stuff blow up and suddenly go, all right, fuck, so properly monetize this, I have to learn to be a standup to sell tickets. And they maybe have a tour or two in them. They're not, I don't know if they're gonna be around for a long time you're stepping into a domain where there's some very, very high quality people. And, you know, doing that's tough, doing an hour, your first tour is, is really tough. And then if that goes, okay, you now have to do another. And that's really difficult. It's really hard. I think it takes 10 years to become a good stand up. I really do. And but he's done it, he did it for so long and then blew up. So he's now doing this amazing show, he's got these backlogs of shows, so people are coming to watch him and going, oh my fucking god, this guy is actually really good. So I, sounds rude, I think some people are going for the novelty of to see the guy who's been on the thing they like and are then blown away by him as a stand up, which I said, I think he was probably one of the best on the circuit for a long time. Like, I think he got to a point where I was like, yeah, this guy's kind of better than everyone else. So I'm in a weird situation where I got like a little bit of boost from some clips. Yeah. And I obviously don't have the years, but I'm just thinking, OK, I'll keep the audience going. I won't ever try to do a show for a long time, but I'm just going to silently keep doing the horrible gigs. That's my entire life is the dodgy gigs. Oh dude, definitely. That's where you get good. Don't stay there forever. No, of course. So I'm actually starting to run nights to escape, basically, because that gives me leverage to be like, oh, can I do this night later that night? And then I'm just going to keep. But I do have a real inclination to go to awful, awful gigs. I don't know what it is. There's a Joey Diaz thing, never forget where you came from. I do those awful gigs every now and then. I think we probably know which ones I'm on about. I do them every now and then. Sometimes that work rate can come back to bite you in the ass. Like I remember one time I did this, I went to do 20 minutes in Reading for free. Like on a Tuesday after I played football. And I was like, I'll do all this new material. And I opened up with just a bit of old to get more and it died. And then I died for the 20 minutes in the audience. It was genuinely the audience sucked. And I was on the train back from Reading. It took him like two hours to get there, two hours to get back. And I was like, right, this is fucking stupid. Because you've you've gone backwards, like, you don't know if any of that stuff works. So you're gonna have to try it again. You've ruined your evening, you've ruined your entire day. This was silly, like this wasn't worth you know, that thing, you learn more from a bad gig than you do a good gig. No, sometimes you learn nothing. And that's really bad. That's bad. Learning nothing is like, I don't know if anything, I haven't learned anything from this. So sometimes I think, and like I say, if you gig with a higher quality level of people, it will make you up your game. If you stay on the open mic scene, you will not up your game. Once you start stepping into the Top Secrets and You know, even like gigs like Crack Comedy and places like that, which are like these gigs that run that and they're good. They should do The Door. Really? Yeah. Oh man, that Brixton one's awful. It's hard. It's like, for people that are listening, it's like a big auditorium. It's like a big I forgot what it's called, but Eric's gonna be his host. So Eric's brilliant. And I love Eric and the way he runs gigs and stuff and he's, you know, and because he's a comic, he's always on your side. But that Brixton one as well, Brixton and London's in this weird place where, especially places like Brixton, where it's people who are not from London, but they've moved to London. And I mean, English people, I'm not going off. So I think And yeah, it can be a difficult and I'm like from round there. I'm like just from down the road a little bit so Yeah, rooms like that, I think, but you will start gigging with, you know, and you'll start seeing people do 20s and bulletproof 20s. And I went to watch Kevin Bridges when he was at the Apollo years ago, and it was as Romesh was coming through. Romesh was, he was already on things, but as he was coming through and he went on and did 20 minutes, that was like the first time I saw a bulletproof 20 that I was like, oh, You're way better than everyone. Like you're, you know, you're fucking unbelievable. And he went on and then Bridges followed. And it was, it was like a cool thing of like someone going, look how good this guy is. Now watch me follow it. Which was a, which was a cool thing to see. Well, what do you think about this plan? So I'm currently, I'm doing five minutes of the Bill Murray. So I'm in those spaces, like very small, but. I say, yeah, I'm not in the Bill Murray. But my plan is to just host multiple nights because hosting, because there actually isn't like there's, it's very hard to get really good rooms, like real rooms, not just with actual people. I market them, do the videos, all that mad stuff that brings people in and then bring really good acts. and just throw myself a good axe at that. I'm like, okay, well, I'm the host, I better step it up. So is that a good plan? Yeah, that is. You'll sink or swim, some nights you'll sink, some nights you'll swim. But that's part, like, don't be afraid to fail in this, like, you're gonna have some bad gigs, maybe sometimes, you know. Oh, all the time. But like, it's possible that like, okay, for example, if you're bringing people in, it's possible that one night, like, let's say Sean Walsh and Michelle DeSchwart are looking for stage time, and suddenly you've got them on the bill as well. They will make other people look. It will happen. But that's part of, you've got to go through that. Like, I've been through that where I've been on stage. I think the hardest jump in comedy The hour is difficult. The hour is tricky. The harder thing is... The second hour is really tricky. But I still think the hardest thing is 10 to 20. Because you've got a good 10 minutes, but you're going on... You're doing like a glee. And... Mick Ferry's hosting, Sally-Anne Haywood's on, you then go on in the middle, and then fucking Adam Bloom closes, and these people are killers. Or like, Dan Nightingale used to be the one, I used to go like, oh fuck, he's made me look a right cunt. He's made me look a right cunt here. And yeah, that's where I think you're going, and you go, oh God, please let the audience be nice. Please let them be nice. So when you decided to step it up, what was the things you consciously decided? Stop saying my age. Okay. When I was 19 or 20. That's smart that you were stepping it up. That's golden. That was like, stop saying your age. I tried on a lot of fits, tried on a lot of outfits, all of that stuff. That stuff, I don't know. But if you just I think the thing is, and especially what I noticed with hustle culture, so I consider myself now to work quite hard, I could work harder. With hustle culture, there's this thing that you have to do it all immediately. It's a very slow steps of progression. And I think, you know, like, it's like when someone starts going to the gym and they're like, I went in five times last week. And you're like, all right, why don't you try going twice a week, every week for six months? That's more impressive than five times this week, three times the next week, four times the week after, and then not the week after, because I've done all those. And I think that's like, you progressively, you get to gig more. I'm lucky I've got Top Secret, so I get to try stuff in a good room. I know that room, I know the audience, I can try stuff there. And sometimes you'll go to a different place and it's harder, and then you've just got to do as much as you possibly can, I think, in terms of writing and gigging. And I'm quite lucky that I'm far enough in that I know how to write and gig, but there's still a big room. Like I really want to improve my act outs and my performance. I see people do act outs really well. And I'm like, right, I want to learn that. I want to learn accents. I want to learn these things and just have these strings, have these bits to my game that, you know, if you watch Matt Ford, he is a mimic. So you're never going to do it as good as him. But if you're like, if I could do it, maybe like, 50% as good as him or 60%, then you can add something like that to the game. But, you know, those are the things that I start thinking like, what else can you add to your set? Well, with accents, for example, does that mean you're going to like YouTube how to do accents or like? Oh yeah, I do that. Is that sort of thing? Yeah, yeah. I watch YouTube videos on stuff like that, you know, and act outs. The way I've been learning to do act outs is I go on stage stoned. which is all weird, but I'm way more present in like, ooh, I've left, I'm holding onto the mic stand, ooh, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Whereas when I'm stoned, I'm a bit, where I'm stoned, I'm in that state of mind and I'm like, stand still, stand straight, look people in the eye, look at, or I look people in the forehead, because I don't like making eye contact, but, yeah. That to me is where I'm like, right, focus on these things. And within act outs, play the character. If you are doing something, finish doing it. If you're pretending to smoke a cigarette, put the cigarette out. Don't just start the next bit. You have to deal with the item you have. That is just very basic acting. And that's not basic. I was like, that's brilliant. But that's like, that's like stuff that I've like learned through life. You've, you think, oh, I've done, I went, I did drama at school, so I know how to, and then I think when you watch really good actors, when you watch acts who are new, who know how to act, they act like a good comedian, even though they might not be. And they can fool enough of the audience that they are, because it's basically magic. It's basically a magic trick. We all have different versions of the same magic trick, pull back and reveal, call back, gag, act like it's that. And if you're able to, the more you can hide the trick, You know, that's why comedians, comedians, comedians, you know, people who fool comedians. are like revered in comedy, but they might not be the biggest acts, because we go, oh, they don't know how, it's almost lost on the audience how clever that was what they just did there, because a lot of the audience don't know the tricks. Or so like, they don't even know that it is tricks, so they're fooled by it quite easily. But to see someone do it really well, you go, oh, that's what, you know, that's why like there's magicians who go, oh, that guy's an amazing magician. But these people as well are usually quite, they're usually quite, they're more artsy, they're characters, they're, as in like, they're personalities, they're, you know, alcoholics, they're these kind of, who don't really give a fuck. And that's where I think like, you have to be careful not to become that as well. I've seen in this job, like it's very easy to slip into, you know, it's more professional now, as is anything in life, but you meet people from the nineties and it was, it's just boozing all the time. It's just, you know, and that's their life. Well, that's mad that you grew up in this. Like, I went to uni and I was awful in university. Never mind being surrounded by people that can make rooms for the people to laugh. You're at bars and stuff, so fair play, bud. Fair play. What about the writing? You mentioned the writing. What's your sort of process for that? I wouldn't really say I have necessarily a process of that. I think with writing, it's Okay, if anyone listening to this is struggling with writing, forgive yourself because you are meant to struggle with writing. I think people are too harsh on themselves with writing. If you say to yourself you're gonna write one day and you go to write and you don't, you've written, that's fine, you tried. If you don't try, that is also fine. It's a tedious, boring thing. So I kind of have, I have a walk to a cafe, that's about 20 minutes. I've stopped smoking now, but it used to be I have a cigarette on the way there. I get into the cafe, I get a latte, I maybe stare at my phone for a minute and I go, right, what do I want to talk about today? Am I going to go to Top Secret later and do a bit about Topical? Okay. what's in the news? What can I talk about that is in the news? Sometimes I see something in the news, I'm like, and I've just got an opinion on it. And I go, cool, I've got somewhere to start. I've got an opinion on this. Is my opinion controversial? Sometimes I fake controversy. And that's never a good bit when I'm fake controversial. That just to me is like me being a bit edgelordy and it, I do that every now and then. And I'm like, yeah, that was, I didn't have an original thing on that, but it can also work the other way where sometimes I have an original thought and it's super liberal. Like, and I go on stage and say something liberal and people clap and you go, oh, that wasn't the intention. I did a bit of an act like Mason Greenwood, because he was accused of what he was accused of, and he's allowed to play football again. I said, oh well, I think he should be allowed to be a professional footballer, because the only other job he could do after being accused of that is being a police officer. And it got like a whoo, and I was like, I wasn't trying to, I was trying to make you laugh. And you feel like a fucking piece of shit. And then other comments, I even messaged him, he going, you're such a fucking panda. Oh, I'm sorry. Did you want me to have a fucking alternative take on this horrific subject that was like pro Mason Greenwood? And yeah, so I think with the writing process, writing for this Edinburgh show, was more challenging, but it was the same, it was the same process. Why was it more challenging, sorry? Because I talk about stuff in it I've not talked about before, and that's hard to write about. It's hard to write about stuff that's very personal to you, but that's kind of the thing that makes it good, I think, in stand-up is, you know, if you have like a good opinion on something or a unique experience in something and a unique take, you can bond with the audience. And that was sort of like talking about that was interesting. Oh, sorry, writing about that I found tricky and then I sort of got into it. And the problem when you're being like really... So I was talking about my mom having borderline personality disorder and that was like a tricky thing to talk about because my mom's not dead. So when she's dead, it will be easy to write. Cause like, she's not going to see it. But when she's alive, it's like, you know, my mom and me don't really have a particularly great relationship. So that's going to be hard for her to take, but you got to kind of go, well, that is what it is, you know, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. But that set up that, like writing about that, but then that makes you a bit more, you know, if you half ask it, if you're not fully honest, when you go into it, the audience can smell it. The audience, as much as I say they're not full of tricks, they're a lot more intelligent than we give them credit for, the audience, most of the time. Well, it's very scary to go so personal, but that seems that from my naive understanding, it seems to be like people start jokes and they get a bit of an attitude and then they start doing more and then they go personal. And then that's when you get to like the Daniel Sloss sort of show. So Daniel Sloss was someone, my friend Daniel Sloss is, yeah, probably the Am I getting in trouble for this? He's the best comedian I know, I guess. Like, I know personally. There's, yeah, there's a few, but he's just sort of leagues above other people. He's someone, this sounds very, right, he's someone that I try to put in my sights of, like, try and, like, not compete with or, like, go mimic or anything like that, because that's a very dangerous part, try and, replicate that, nah, because you don't wanna use words like that with stand up. You want to, you wanna like go, you look at someone like that and go, all right, well, he's the best of like us, so that's like a person that you should put in that category. Another one, again, like Milo and Jumaane Maddox. are three people I sort of look at and go like, all right, you've watched those guys get success, which is a very odd, it's not an odd, it's a very cool thing to watch people you know, get a level of success that they deserve, but see what they go through with it, see the work process and all of that and, go, oh, wow, well, if I ever want to do something like that, I've got to work as hard as those guys. Because none of those, you know, with Daniel, especially, people always go, he was very lucky. With parts of his early career, people called him lucky. They wouldn't do now. In fact, weirdly in the UK, he kind of doesn't get the respect he deserves. He gets it in the US and across Europe and Australia, but in the UK, I think because he's not on TV, people don't put him in that category. Even though he does massive seaters, he's not someone everyone knows, which is quite an interesting thing. And I think he kind of gets left out of conversation in the UK a little bit of like the best. I think when people bring up and go, those shows people go, oh yeah, yeah, Daniel, like he's one of the better, better comedians that England has ever produced. And... He's Scottish? Yeah. But then that's a cool thing and you'll have that and like you'll be looked at amongst the people you gig with now it's like you've blown up on Instagram and got some followers and stuff like oh fuck how do I did that's like a it's a really really nice I've never really considered it before it's a really nice thing in your career to watch other people who you know do well and go, oh, it's possible, oh, it's this, but I've got to, for to do it, I've got to work like they work. Of course, you have all the fun stories that people will never like it, like with them growing up as well. So, like, that's cool to see. Yeah, I first met, like, Jamali, Danny and Milo about nine years ago. Jamali was always going to blow up, always. He was a guy that From when I met him, everyone was talking about him and he just always like up the level and stuff. And Jamali was really, and he still is, but Jamali was exciting on stage. Jamali was really exciting on stage. We used to do this place, the Comedy Caf, just around the corner from here on Rivington Street. This place was amazing. It would go down on a Wednesday and I had watched like, I was looking at a photo of it the other day of the last night there. It was people like K. Curd, Jimmy James Jones, there was Elroy, Mo Gilligan, myself, Jamali, Ola used to do it, Nabil used to do it. And no, Dane didn't do it. He did it a couple of times. And it was really cool. again, there to watch these people kind of come through and everyone was fighting for spots. You'd get me, you'd get me, you wouldn't get Mo and Jamali. No, you wouldn't like now. It's nice that you're giving back to the community. You'd absolutely get me on that. But yeah, that was, that was like a, again, like a cool thing in London to go. I was there for these people coming through and Oh, competing with each other. Really? They won. And no, but competing with each other in a way that wasn't like unhealthy. It was like this group of people who'd been going up three, four years and finding ourselves as people in the standups, you know, it was, it's a cool thing to look back on that. I will look back on that and go, oh, that was fucking, I wish I appreciated that more at the time. Well, from doing all these interviews, what I've really got is, like, I have my little core group of people that we're all going up and we're all doing the same sort of gig. I'm a sociopath, so I'm posting all this shit all the time. But, like, gig-wise, they're doing probably better and stuff. And it really feels like brawlers in arms stuff. It's cool. Yeah, you see them picking off. So it's nice. That's a cool thing when you first start, is you kind of get this group of mates that you just, they just come, like, your mates, I didn't really have it to, cause I guess everyone you're starting with is near enough same age as you. I didn't have that when I started. It was me, Michael Odewale, Tom Lucy, Lauren Patterson, but yeah, that was like the, that was it. And me and Michael only really came like good mates like five years ago, six years ago. So like we, Yeah, there wasn't many people around my age, so I was hanging out with older people. Were they all just being better, being like, yeah, new youth? No. I just might do it the next time. I get very jealous of people that have arrived earlier, but then I'm also like, I did the startups, I did the stories and all that weird stuff. So at the end, I'm like, that's just a weird part of my brain. Did you talk about that on stage? Doing short stories and no one read. I will eventually, I just need to get to it. It takes me a long time, like everyone, just to iterate through this stuff. I'm trying to be more and more honest, but my levels of honesty are like, You know what I mean? I'm trying to build it up. Yeah, you just got to stick with it. It's like you just have to stick with it. And you've been going two years? Lasted, but in that range. I'm telling you in like a year and a half. that'll be the hardest part, or like what I'm saying, that jump from 10 to 20, that just stick through that stage. There's a thing in jujitsu called the blue belt blue. So I'm a moron who refers to everything within like real simple generic talk. So like white belt, a lot of people quit and turn up and quit pretty quickly. But when you get a blue belt, you're above the white belts, but you've still not got the respect of like a purple belt or a brown belt or nowhere near a black belt. So you're still like bottom of the pile, but you're better than these guys, but you should be better than these guys. They're just starting. And so people really struggle with the blue belt phase and end up quitting because they go, well, I can say I'm not a white belt. I can say I did it for X amount of years. So I, and you know, I've probably got a picture of me winning like a tournament. So I quit and they just fall out of it. That happens a lot in standup as well. And I don't think it's just like, I think jujitsu people, like it's not just a jujitsu thing. It's like a life thing that for a short period of time, like say you wanted to go get good at table tennis. Within six months, you can beat all your mates at table tennis pretty convincingly. doesn't mean you're good at table tennis. And I think it's like that with stand-up where, hey, you're not, with people like, hey, this person's not absolutely terrible at this. So you get elevated. And then it comes to the level where it's like, fuck, I'm now with the people who are professional and making a career, like I was talking about. And you go, this is really hard. This is really difficult. And people, people quit. And I was thinking about it as well when I was like, I was like, what the fuck am I doing? But that's the stage where I'm like, just do not quit. You've just got to get through it. So you chose the Jiu Jitsu analogy and that's straight through my soul. So I'll be honest and vulnerable here. So I did jiu-jitsu like seven years ago, and I've been to five different gyms, and I always do nine months in a gym. So I've got four stripes, lost four stripes, got four stripes. It's honestly so embarrassing now. When I start, I just like, no, no, I'm just new. I'll do a triangular like, what's wrong? And then I just don't, I just move. It's awful, dude. I've got, they won't give me my blue belt because I don't do gi. Oh, okay. I feel better then. So I've got this thing where I'm like, all right, I'm going to go fucking do a tournament, win that. And then I'm like, if I do not win that tournament, but I'm like, like when I go row with people, they're like, oh, you're blue belt. I'm like, no, I'm a white belt. I'm so embarrassed. And they're like, You're a white belt. I'm like, yeah. And you know, some, I'm sorry. At least you've got the no-gap. It is years, but it's years of this weird white belt experience. I don't know. I'm so sad about it. I do like as well, like if you'd be, yeah, you'd be like purple belt. No. That's what gets in my head. Oh, you'd be purple belt. So, for people that don't know, purple belt's really respected. You could teach at purple belt. You could, like, teach a class at purple. It's pretty high. You're closer to black at purple than you are purple at white belt. And they're legitimate killers, regardless of weight or anything. They're gonna mess people up. Yeah, you, like, you you you fuck with a blue belt you'll have a real bad time you go with a purple belt you'll have a awful day like it's not fun like especially if they They're weird as well, purple belts, because a black belt will just fuck you up as fun. They just know where you're going to go. They'll feel your balance and stuff. So you really don't really see the power of black belts, I think, until you get a bit more in and you realize their wealth of knowledge and experience and the technical side of it. Whereas purple belts, they still have to put it on you a little bit because they're not quite as proficient. So they can't be as casual about stuff. So you really feel them go for you every now and then. Especially like, you know, if you're a bigger guy and you've got 20 kgs on someone, they're really going to fuck you. They're going to heel hook you, man. You're going to have a bad day. So I was doing Jiu-Jitsu here while I was doing stand-up and then I got kidney stones and I was like, sweet, this is my out. I get to take a break, have a bit of back game weight and now you've said it, I'm like, You just gotta keep turning up to it. It's so beautiful. I love it. It's so fun. Dude, it's the best thing to do. I did Muay Thai as well, by the way. Really? Yeah. How many years did you do Muay Thai? Three years university. Only did one, one Indra Club because I'm a pussy. I did one Indra Club. I did one in the first nine months and I got fucking the shit beaten out of me. I'm sorry for talking about it, but I've got the worst, my inter club moment. So I was getting the shorts on before and my dick popped out of my shorts. I like my boxers and everyone there is getting changed and flaccid. It's not good, dude. It's not impressive. So that was in my head. And I was like, this is the worst day of my entire life. They've seen it. No one's commented, which is worse. They were like, what was that? I was like, oh, so I'm in there. And then I go in and I did OK, but I kept picking the guy up, which is the most disrespectful thing you can ever do. I was being nice, but I was like, nah, come on, dude, you'll be fine. Oh, you put him down and then sweeping him and picking him up. Oh dude, I was just getting sweeped. I got swept to fuck in my, well, I weight cut it too stupidly. And also no one gives a fuck in an inter club. No one gives a fuck. So I, the week before the inter club, no one told me I was doing, I put my name down for the inter club. Never heard, I trained at a very good gym. And then it went mental. But I trained at a really, really, really good gym. They had some really high level people coming out there. And I was sparring a lot. I was doing, I trained like, All I did before the Edinburgh show where I fucked everything up was I just did Muay Thai because I went and worked on that instead of my show. And I kind of knew at the time I was replacing work with something else. I was going, no, I'm doing the work when I wasn't doing it on my show. And I got quite decent at Muay Thai for a beginner. And then I did this inter club, man. And they let me know the week before, I'm doing the weight cut, fucking shoot like the hot baths and all of that stuff. And I went in and this guy, I remember after round one, I was just won the adrenaline dump, which is the thing that you've learned most in your first fight is you have 30 seconds of fight in you. And because you don't do anything correctly because you're so nervous. Well, I was anyway. No, I was well dude, I just, just tans. Oh man, that moment when you're walking to the ring and you're like, what the fuck am I? Like they've all just seen my dick, my pussy. I started strong as well, I landed a fair few kicks and then I remember just, I landed a good like one, two, three, four in the second round, I remember that was like my highlights and this guy started teeing off on me, just leg kicking me to fuck. And like, my legs were heavy. Your breathing's like, please stop, it's an interclub! That sort of, yeah. Yeah, that sucked. But then, like, a few Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and stuff I've done now, I've not really got too nervous beforehand. I've done one Jiu-Jitsu tournament, two wins, and then I got mauled by someone, he went up 12.0, and I haven't been back since, because I'm a weak, weak little man. In front of everyone. I had some banker beat me like fucking 50-0 or something. Oh bro, my ex-girlfriend, she was my girlfriend at the time, watching, and I was just like, he put me in an arm triangle and I was like, just don't fucking touch me. I was like, I started talking shit. I was like, all I've got now is not tapping and talking shit. So I was there going, he fucking, what are you trying to try me out? I've never won yet. I walked in and this guy was, there was this other guy I was facing. This is like six months before, about a year before this tournament. And he grabbed me and he was strong. And I went, wow, you really fucking trained for this white belt tournament, didn't you? and he just picked me up and dunked me on my head and like, which is completely illegal, by the way. It was a completely, it was a slam. So it was technically, it was my win, but I've been headbutted. I had one tournament where a guy headbutted me twice and the referee was like, I, you can't, my thing was the ref stopped it and I should have gone like, that's a disqualification. He's headbutted me twice. But you don't want to be that guy, even though you've been headbutted twice, which is completely not on, like it's so unfair. And then he took me down and rear naked choked me. And I remember just being like, Well, I should have won, like, that's a disqualification. You can't headbutt people. Technically, I won. Yeah, but you can't, you don't want to be that guy. I would have been there with a four and being like, I was a headbutt and I've got the video. Well, if the coach, the coach, the person who was coaching me was just like, no, if one of my coaches from the gym had been there, they would, a coach will do that. Yeah, there's coaches as well. Oh man, one of my first tournaments, I'd only been training Jiu-Jitsu for six weeks and like, I just went to a tournament, I just thought, fuck it. It was the only time I competed at Gi. And this coach, this guy, he's Brazilian, very funny dude. And like, I'm on the, I just get taken out and this guy just mounts me and I'm just trying to fight. And he's just, again, he's putting me in all sorts and I'm just like, just don't tap. Like that's the, that's the one here. He won six nil, we just sat him down. And he, I just hear like, Turn left, bro. Turn left. Just start turning left. And he went, no, no, not you. The guy on the other. You're fucked. And you're fucked, bro. Like, you're not doing anything. That would be my coach. And then they're just so disappointed. They speak in Portuguese around you for weeks after. You're like, oh, man. Yeah, where were you training? London Fight Factory. That's where that Banker guy fucked me up. Yeah, he was from there. Jeremy, the coach there, there's the coach Jeremy. My MMA guy? Yeah, he coached at my gym. He was at the MMA. He's super nice. I never did MMA. I'm too much of a pussy again. He's a super sound guy. He's a good coach. I'll bring it back to comedy. That was fun. I'm sorry. No, man. I'll talk about martial arts all day. What's the worst advice you hear given to comedians? I don't think this is just to comedians. I think I read, I read this, I hear it a lot. You see it a lot as like basic people say it. And I read it when I was 16, I was like, so true. And I'm like, what dumb thing to say. And it's, if you do what you love, you'll never work another day in your life. That is absolutely not true. If you do what you love, if you, sorry, if you do what you love, It will feel like work and the times where it's brilliant are amazing. The times where it is low are really, really low. And I don't go into something thinking this is just going to be fun because it's what I love. You're going to find out there's a lot of admin involved. You're going to find out that there's things you have to do that you didn't see you had to do. There's going to be people who do better than you and that's going to hurt you. there's gonna be times where you work on something really hard and it doesn't come off. There's gonna be times where you work on something for fuck all and it comes off, but you do next to nothing on it. And that works. And you just got, I can't understand what it is. And this is the thing that I love and I don't, and it feels like work and that it shouldn't feel like work. I love it. And that's part of doing what you love is you love it. So the times where it's work, you work through it and it's difficult. And I think that's the thing that people, They start stand-up thinking, I love stand-up comedy, this will be fun. And they then realise, oh my God, there's so much I've got to do. You're competing with 400 people to get a seven minute spot and they're all psychopaths and ready to do anything for it. Oh yeah, they're all doing that, but you're one of them as well. They don't think you're not one of them as well. And you go into Doncaster for 10 minutes and then the trains are cancelled on the back so you have to sleep at the train station. Yeah, that's part of the job. That is, I don't trust anyone who does stand up who hasn't got a story where they haven't had to sleep at a bus shelter or sleep at a train station or do something like that and go, oh yeah, I had to go sit in a casino till five in the morning until the fucking trains ran again. That's part of doing what you love. Like that is part of it. And that part of it is definitely work. That was a great answer. Well, you've sort of already said it, but if you had to form a super comedian from three comedians and you can take something from each of them. Neither of the cunts I just mentioned. Fuck them. Get to the Americans. God, could you imagine if Slosh Jamali and Milo came in? Some cat standing out shop screaming about white women. No, it was super comedian. The three comedians I saw, excluding my dad, the three comedians I saw who changed my perception of what stand-up could be was Doug Stanhope, Jim Jeffries, and Louis C.K. And what are you taking from each of them? Louis C.K. has the ability, it's like, Okay, bear with me on this. It's like McIntyre, he makes it look very, very simple, but what he's doing is very complicated. McIntyre does this kind of the same thing. Lucy Kay explores what I consider more interesting subjects with it, but that's no different. McIntyre is a master of the craft and he's not someone that people, someone like Camino, like myself, people always go like, oh, fuck McIntyre. And you go, no, no, no, no, you don't realize how good that guy is. Yeah, but there's people who say our arenas can be shit, but he isn't. I've seen him live twice and each time I was like, oh, that's where you are. You're better than everyone else at this. You are. He works hard, he understands it. I know someone who works with him and they go like, oh, that guy doesn't stop. He is driven. But yeah, sorry. So Louis CK, I think has that ability to, talk about a subject and be so philosophical and so funny on it. And just with his point of view, it's hysterical because he cuts through all the bullshit. Doug Stanhope has a special, I don't know if you've seen it, called, fuck, what one is it? Deadbeat Hero. It's in 2002 or 2003, just in a little comedy club, back before filming a special in a comedy club was a cool thing to do, in black and white. filmed really cheaply, but it's brilliant. And he does anti-troop material on it, which in 2003, Midwest America is. unbelievable because of at the time of the Iraq war, everything was so in that post 9-11 society was so pro the troops. He has routines slagging off the troops. He has some of the most thoughtful, brilliantly written stand up alongside some of the most deranged and horrific stand up. And that right in him sticking to what he thinks is funny and fearlessness is why I think it's the greatest special of all time. And I chose Jim Jefferies because I saw Alcohol-O-Cost when I was 15. It was just on Netflix and I watched it. The same Louis C.K. I watched Chewed Up. which is a 2008 special, Alcoholic Horse, I think it's 2006, maybe 2007. And it again has, yeah, maybe around the same time, actually. It's just got some of the best routines. I revisited it recently, and like all specials, it still holds up, but comedy doesn't age well, like really doesn't age well. But actually, I'm gonna switch out Jim Jefferies, could I put in Dave Chappelle? Dave Chappelle, I think, And I wasn't actually a big Chappelle fan. I wasn't, you know, cause I saw his old specials and stuff. I knew the Chappelle show, I loved the Chappelle show. But his old specials, I was like, oh, okay, yeah. But again, they were of their time. His latest specials, I don't think he missed on one of them. I think they were all fantastic. And again, he stuck to what he thought was funny, whether people agree with it politically or not. I think like, I think, the transgender argument within standup has been, is absolutely insane that like trans people do get treated the way that they get treated within standup comedy. I think if people listen to what he was saying, he wasn't saying anything that bad, but that's not for me to decide. I'm not transgender. I also kind of don't give a fuck. Like if people, I always kind of, like when I say I don't give a fuck, I mean like I, I haven't got time to think about trans issues all day, you know what I mean? I think that's the thing within stand-up as well, is people think, they see someone joking about it and immediately like, this is the biggest issue in the world. And you're like, most people don't give a fuck. But I think him sticking to what he sticks to as well, like Stan Hope, His routine, he had the best Donald Trump routine up there with John Mulaney's, there's a horse in a hospital when he did the thing about the poor whites. And he just has this beautiful line going, where they're going, Donald Trump's going there to make it for me. And he goes, you dumb fucks, he's going there to make it good for me. And that's like such a brilliant critique on class and racism in America. and also that arrogance to talk about being a millionaire that brazenly on stage is, I always think that's where Louis CK and Chappelle have always done something really interesting, is they've spoke about being wealthy on stage. And that again is a, It's different, I think, for a black comedian, because I think that especially a black American comedian, there's like this idea that, you know, it's like, I've made it, fuck you to the white man. And black comedians are able to go out and be quite showy offy with it. Whereas like a white comedian, it's like, you're meant to be doing well, what's perceived in society. You're meant to be. So when Louis CK goes on and talks about being wealthy and making it funny as well, I think that's a really interesting, skill that he has, like, to own that. And then I think someone you see mimic that and not do it as well as Ricky Gervais. I think he mimics, I think he watches, I think Ricky Gervais understands stand-up. I think he watches good stand-up, sees what's good stand-up, does a show about trans people, does a thing about talking about being wealthy. and doesn't do it to the same ability that they can do it. I think personally. And that's why like when Ricky Gervais gets in trouble, I don't really argue his case for it. Cause I'm like, he, you know, he's a, He is just going up there and going like, and just slagging off trans people. He hasn't got a point. Which again, by all means do, but when people get mad at it, don't be like, oh, freedom of speech. Like, yeah, bro, you shook the hornet's nest. Like why are you surprised? Like this is, you know, Chappelle, if you look at within his point, he's talking about being a black person in America, watching a group of white people be taken more seriously than him. and how frustrating that is, that's what I took from that special, which is a point of view I've never heard before. So, sorry for this long-winded answer, but I just like talking about stand-up, and this is very long-winded, but yeah, I'd say Chappelle, Louis CK, and Doug Stanhope. But Doug Stanhope's, for me, the pinnacle of stand-up. Thank you very much for coming, Elliot. Oh man, thank you for letting me talk about stand-up and martial arts, it's a dream for me. No, what have you got to shout out? Okay, so if I'm in the Edinburgh Fringe, I'm doing a show called Love and Hate Speech, best thing I've ever written, I'd love to come along. I've got a podcast as well, BTEC Philosophers, that I do with Michael Odewale. And yeah, follow me on Instagram and stuff, I post clips, crowd work clips, topical clips, and even like bits of my material when I'm done with them. So yeah, follow me there at Elliot Steele. Well, thank you very much for coming Elliot. No problem. If you've enjoyed it, please share the episode with someone and share the clips. They're posted on Kin Podcast now. And yeah, go see Elliot, if not in Edinburgh, somewhere else. It's going to be killing it. So thank you very much, Elliot. Thank you. Well, thank you.