Uncovering a dusty congratulations note from my graduation triggered not just nostalgia, but an entire episode's worth of discussion with my guest, Jayvn. Are graphic design degrees still relevant? Should you even consider college anymore? The conversation gets real as we consider the possibility that graphic design might be evolving from a stand-alone career into a versatile skill set necessary for many modern job roles.
The job hunt for newly-minted designers can feel like hacking through a jungle with a blunt machete. This episode peels back the curtain on the hustle needed to leap from the safety of formal education into the professional arena and the grit it takes to carve out a career in this oversaturated field.
The real juice, though, is in our dialogue about coupling a creative degree with a practical one—think business or coding—to cushion your bank account. Join us for this honest exchange, where we weigh the scales of passion against profit and chart a course for a fulfilling creative voyage.
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Watch the visual version of this podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@thisisntmydegree
Host: Original Dante
IG: www.instagram.com/originaldante
Guest: Jayvn Solomon
IG: https://www.instagram.com/jayvnsolomon/
Loutopia IG: https://www.instagram.com/stloutopia/
Uncovering a dusty congratulations note from my graduation triggered not just nostalgia, but an entire episode's worth of discussion with my guest, Jayvn. Are graphic design degrees still relevant? Should you even consider college anymore? The conversation gets real as we consider the possibility that graphic design might be evolving from a stand-alone career into a versatile skill set necessary for many modern job roles.
The job hunt for newly-minted designers can feel like hacking through a jungle with a blunt machete. This episode peels back the curtain on the hustle needed to leap from the safety of formal education into the professional arena and the grit it takes to carve out a career in this oversaturated field.
The real juice, though, is in our dialogue about coupling a creative degree with a practical one—think business or coding—to cushion your bank account. Join us for this honest exchange, where we weigh the scales of passion against profit and chart a course for a fulfilling creative voyage.
___
Watch the visual version of this podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@thisisntmydegree
Host: Original Dante
IG: www.instagram.com/originaldante
Guest: Jayvn Solomon
IG: https://www.instagram.com/jayvnsolomon/
Loutopia IG: https://www.instagram.com/stloutopia/
And this isn't my-. What the fuck happened here? Wait, is there a paper behind here?
Speaker 2:This is a real thing happening right now. Holy fuck, what's happening, holy what the? Fuck what is happening right now.
Speaker 1:On behalf of our 90,000 alumni around the world, congratulations on your new status as a University of Central Missouri alumnus, it's just another paper that's saying congrats on graduating.
Speaker 2:You didn't know that was there.
Speaker 1:No, I just found out real time. I really thought, because you know what you want to know. A fun fact I actually opted out If I stayed at UCM for one more semester. I actually would have gotten an illustration degree too, if I would have taken, I think, three more classes, not even a full-time student level. So this isn't my degree.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the show where I give you a backstage pass into the life of a full-time freelancer and content creator, and sometimes I hang out with people like Javon. We're talking about being a co-host now. You went to school for graphic design also.
Speaker 2:I went to school for graphic design. So what's Bro? I've been meaning to talk to you about this for a minute because I'm like he really didn't like his degree.
Speaker 1:What happened? I mean, in this day and age, would you even say, would you say, getting a graphic design degree is worth it at this point? No, how?
Speaker 2:well, and I teach, right, I teach uh design students, graphics being one of them. So, no, um, for reasons that I'm sure we'll get into the thing, because I think about cause. I think about this all the time, bro, cause, like I'll tell you, I was going to Chicago like one of the uh, the smaller AI, um, art Institute.
Speaker 1:That's what it's called.
Speaker 2:Not the Kanye one, not the big one, Although I would have loved that they just I know exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they had the AIs of, like, different cities, the Chicago AI we got one in St Charles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, Something like that. I just think of five guys whenever I think of ours. But anyway, yeah, so I was going to go there. Then I ended up staying here in St Louis. I went to Maryville which was a surprisingly good school. I've heard a lot of good things, well, and I don't want to harp on them because I don't really want to include them in this conversation, but generally speaking, I would say, especially in 2024, nah, you probably don't have to go for graphic design. I would agree with that.
Speaker 1:The internet is vast, thankfully, versus when we were in school, but like yeah, it's actually remarkable the leap that has happened, because I would say like I was still using like adobe creative suite, like cs2 cs, like back when it was just you pay for it and you have it.
Speaker 2:Yep not the one version subscription.
Speaker 1:Yep, um, and then it's. I think I stopped at cs6 and I don't know if that was the last one that was the last one, but like cc.
Speaker 1:I got that one. And then, yeah, they announced cc. Um, but like nowadays, like it can't be compared to them, because now everything is like infinitely rising faster and like everything is exponentially improving, yeah, so quick. Back then it was like every year you get a new version of adobe products and it's like cool and it's like still, you know, like selections would still be mid and everything, but I'd say the jump from like 2019 to now is crazy. Like once I walked across that stage I watched everything just like, oh, here's a new update, here's an update, here's a new update. And then ai tools, firefly I'm like whoa, like what in the world is happening? Yeah, with just graphic design in general. And then canva happened.
Speaker 1:Whenever people ask me how I feel about graphic design now, I always tell them it's a secondary skill, because and I've said this on the pod I I'm pretty sure before but if we look at job titles, if we look at roles in marketing and advertising and that industry, you have, like, social media managers, where one of the required skills is graphic design, like designing social media posts.
Speaker 1:You have photographers, where graphic design is needed because you need photo manipulation. You have, you know, marketing managers that need to know how to do graphic design for internal communications and, like you know, different promotions. It's not its own job anymore, unless you've been at some organization or business for you know 10 plus years where, like, you've really just carved your way into that role. But like everybody uses Canva, like whenever I tell people that I design all my YouTube stuff like thumbnails and everything in Photoshop, people give me weird looks. But I'm like Canva just doesn't get to that level of detail that I need Granted. Use adobe express, which is their version of canva right to make the um, the podcast thumbnails. But that's just because consistency, I can just plop everything in there.
Speaker 2:There's also procreate, yeah which like yeah, huge love procreate. Yeah, love the shit out of procreate. I would love some money from y'all, or for my friend here I would just love some money from it, as am phone.
Speaker 1:I would love some money from adobe, please, yeah, help me. I always, yeah, I always want to quote that. But you know, I'll put a mug here, I'll put something on the shelf behind me, I'll wear some merch, like dude, I will wear somewhere. I mean, I I have a lot of respect for adobe because because of that I've been able to not only, you know, get a degree, but also, like I've been able to make a living, start a business by using those tools. That's just my thought on the thing could I've used?
Speaker 1:another software yeah but, like I don't know if there's anything that really holds a candle in terms of, because I use premiere audition. Audition is recording right now and I master the audio in that. Yep photoshop to design thumbnails also just like edit photos to deliver, like clients and everything. Do you have a favorite adobe program?
Speaker 2:now. Now I granted there was a mass like diversity in the ones you've just named.
Speaker 1:Right, they obviously can't be compared, but if we're talking like classic design, photoshop, photoshop see, I'm illustrator makes sense, yeah, which I love illustrator as well, because that's what I made my comics in but at some point.
Speaker 2:So I think I learned photoshop first when, like my dad when he was in the air force, like, did a lot of like designy things. I don't remember what his specific title was at the time, but he had like the flexibility to create things through the creative suite. And this was CS2 probably, so he was like all right, so I got these programs for you Illustrator and Photoshop and I always gravitated towards Photoshop because it just felt easier. Working in vector was ass to me, but now it's completely reversed.
Speaker 2:Like, I love working in vector because, like, if I can send you this file, I know that it will never ever get pixelated.
Speaker 1:It shouldn't anyway it shouldn't. That's true, that is a very real thing.
Speaker 2:That's the sole reason that I like am Ryan with illustrator Cause it's like I can make this a tiny button. I can make this a billboard on a SpaceX ship.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like it's scalable, which is like super important to me. But I've been thinking, like you said, graphic design is like more of a a skill than a job. That is like it's kind of damning, like yeah, aside from like an art director and those still exist, right, but even even art directors are a bit more involved than just like oh, I made this, I made this thing on my computer and like just printed it and now I have an art director like a project manager, almost yeah, because it's like and it gets blurred too, because like some people yes, absolutely some people, though.
Speaker 2:And this is when titles come into the mix. It's like, oh well, I'm a titles bro semantics really like some people, though. And this is when titles come into the mix. It's like, oh well, I'm titles bro, semantics, really like. Some people really are art directors. Some people are just graphic designers with fancy titles you're not wrong, I know this is. This is one of a few things where I'm like I know it because for one I've applied for so many jobs, oh my god.
Speaker 1:But also, and yeah I want to talk about that. We'll get there.
Speaker 2:I want to talk about that, for sure but like another, like having been part of some hiring processes at this point, or like interview or portfolio review, it's like you know it, just things to learn along the way, that it's like, oh, I see, so you're just saying not you, but you're just saying this to make somebody feel good about their title, whereas you're doing this because you actually want them to do this work and the key there is to read the fucking description of the job title That'll give you every single time, like the details that you want.
Speaker 1:Let's get into. Let's get into jobs details that you want let's get into. Let's get into jobs. Whenever I was applying for jobs my last like two months of college I remember just like trying to find things back here in St Louis I'm like, eh, it's fine. It's fine, I'll find stuff, I'll network, I'll coordinate.
Speaker 1:And of course, I went through the typical you know thing that everybody goes through, where it's like you go through three, four interviews, then it gets told no. And I'm like, okay, cool, through three, four interviews. Then it gets told no. And I'm like, okay, cool, and it was always I would get beat out by experience. That's what it really boiled down to, despite I would. Actually, it was to the point where I was like is something wrong with, like just my lack of experience? Is that really it? So I was like, okay, well, let me give myself some experience.
Speaker 1:Quote unquote so I would go to this website called Briefbox where they would give you briefs like here's the client, here's the scope of work, here's the deliverables, here's like their branding kit, or like they need a branding kit. You know, they would give me like all these different prompts that I would run with. So I was like, okay, I'm going to make a portfolio that's exclusively post-college work, so that way I can showcase my skills, and everybody was so massively impressed when I brought out that printed portfolio. They were all like, holy crap, you, you have like this whole thing. Yeah, like we're definitely gonna get you landed somewhere. That's what like recruiters would say, but it would always be oh, experience, oh, it's just not enough oh, did you end up finding a job?
Speaker 1:it took me four months to find a job, which I found it with the gateway arts park foundation, because they were looking for a part-time person, but that's how a lot of the jobs were were like part-time designers, part-time this, and I'm like, especially in st louis. Yes, and it's like that's how a lot of the jobs were were like part-time designers, part-time this, and I'm like especially in st louis, yes, and it's like that's not enough to sustain somebody, you know.
Speaker 1:So I had, you know I was working two jobs, which a lot of people do, but I had to do that because I was only getting 20 something hours with the gateway arch park, which like that's all they needed. So like fair play to them. But I had to like take an internship that was only paying eight dollars an hour that was all the way in alton, and I lived in new city at the time, damn yeah. So it's like it got to the point where, like, I had to question was it even really worth it? Because, like I was actually losing. I did the math, I was losing money because of how far I was driving and the gas mileage in the car right so like at the end of the day it really wasn't worth it, like I really.
Speaker 1:And then after like taxes and benefit, like all that stuff, I really wasn't making a whole lot for the time that I was putting into that, because then I'd also have to factor in commute time and it's like I'd get home and it'd be like six something, because I don't know if you've ever been on like two, 70, 55 to 55, terrible during rush hour. Yes, yeah, like it's just. Yeah, that's where the real traffic sat in, like in St Louis is those highways, and always from like South to North or North to South, it's always from like south to north or north to south, it's always those two, um, but yeah, it's, it was a challenge.
Speaker 2:So did you have kind of the same experience it? So when I graduated, let's see, I had an internship that I thought was going to be like a full-time thing and it felt promising. Uh, didn't work out. I was actually they didn't fire me or anything, but my internship ended on my birthday, which was the same, you know, around the time where they were like yeah, we're not going to do the full-time thing and I was like, bro, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2:Thankfully well at the time. To do Thankfully uh well at the time. Thankfully, I was working like three, four different jobs at the time because I had to pay for school my last semester. Like I, literally. First of all, I think there was only one semester where, like I didn't get the letter of like hey, you owe this much in order to like do your schedule and type shit. And I'm like like bruh.
Speaker 2:So after in time, I just got all these damn jobs. So when my internship ended, I'm like cool, because I'm still working at sky zone, I'm still cleaning buildings in the evening. And since I wasn't able to get a formal design position, I just told the people at skyzone chesterfield at the time rip, uh like listen, these flyers suck, this sucks. I'm a graphic design student. I would love to do If you just paid me X amount more an hour, I would love to do this. I don't need a fancy title change, none of that shit, just let me do these things. And I got my way in there ultimately. But no, it took me. Let's see, I was working in Skyzone and doing some other stuff. Then I had a contract position with new balance for like a few months, and that was another situation.
Speaker 2:It was initially supposed to be for like two weeks, oh, wow, but what was a short contract? It was a short contract but it ended up being. It was definitely like two months, at least two months got paid every week, like didn't have to do, wasn't technically I don't think 40 hours a week, so I didn't have to do like all this formal stuff. I just like money every week.
Speaker 2:Money every week, which, yeah, a 21 year old you know that's kind of the shit so, uh, that didn't end up working out, and it was november when I finally got a full-time position at PGAV Destinations downtown and that wasn't even like technically well, it was a graphic design position, but it was a lot more than that. But it took me a long time for similar situations Like, oh you like I would look at applications and it's like what was the thing? That still pisses me off to this day. It was like you need zero to zero to three years experience and then when you go in, it's like, oh well, you don't have enough experience always and it's like.
Speaker 1:It's like these are for, like, junior positions. Yeah, how do I?
Speaker 2:not have experience for an entry-level position. You're, what do you?
Speaker 1:how does that bear to get the?
Speaker 2:experience and it's like, yeah, I can't get the experience unless you bring me in here, and if you don't bring me in here, I'm not gonna get the experience.
Speaker 1:So if everybody's doing this is this like a cabal?
Speaker 2:what the fuck is like? What is this a joke is like really where my head was at the time. And then I, yeah, yeah, it's just, it's really crazy, like some of my students to this day still have this problem.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's going to be a never ending thing.
Speaker 2:It might be.
Speaker 1:Because there's always going to be somebody with a year or two of experience.
Speaker 2:That's always going to beat out the inexperienced person Because I mean it's so frustrating having to deal with that I think this is the challenge, uh, when we let like numbers dictate things, sometimes, like if dante comes in, if you come in and you have like five years experience and I come in, or somebody else comes in, I you know what.
Speaker 2:Let me walk this back a little bit. If somebody else comes in that has more experience than you years wise and you come in bright-eyed, bushy-tailed hella, skilled hella, up-to-date skills because we know for a fact that design, specifically any type of design like the, the younger you are, chances are, the more tapped into creativity and creative culture you are. Uh, yeah, it's a fact. It's fact. It's a fact. Not to be like ageist or anything like that, because there's definitely a place for older designers, right, but I think it's crazy as hell that, like younger people have a hard time finding jobs when they're the ones who are. You know, everybody's spending all this money to like stay relevant and like do research all the trends, and all you have to do is hire this college grad somebody that's already in it.
Speaker 2:And if they don't know it, they certainly know somebody who is or know how to get there. But I digress. I think this is the challenge of like basing things off of like years or like time skills, because like that does not equal. We know plenty of stupid ass old people.
Speaker 1:I was about to say that could be correlated with age it's like just because you're 50 years old doesn't mean that you are automatically wiser than a 25 year old, tell me that's not a lesson you haven't learned as an adult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my god, yeah, yeah, like mentally, I've always felt like I've been in my thirties, just because of the experiences that I've had in life, which I won't as a whole different podcast episode but no, it's like, age doesn't always dictate your maturity level and years in the industry doesn't always indicate your skill and expertise, because I know a lot of people. A good example is like I know somebody that was in the industry for about 10 years and I remember this is a very specific graphic design thing, but they told me that I needed to make something that was like 50 pixels by like 130 pixels for like a banner ad on a webpage and I'm like you do realize that's like extraordinarily small, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And they were like, no, it needs to be this, it needs to be this. And I'm like, okay, so I gave it to them. And then they were like, well, this is too small. And I'm like, well, I told you that, I told you that this was too small, yeah. So then, like they proceeded to like raise their voice. They're like I need it, this size, I need it to work, and I'm like I gave you exactly what you asked for and I told you I told you this was too small of a thing.
Speaker 1:Somebody 10 years and at that point I had like two years of professional experience. I'm like you do you know that's too small, right? So it's like. That's just one example of like okay, just because you've been here longer doesn't mean you understand. Yeah, yeah, I know some 50 year olds that are extraordinarily tapped in, yeah, and would be able to like keep up with somebody that just graduated college, like there's, but the majority of 50 year olds are not doing that.
Speaker 2:And I think honestly at the end of the day, cause college is such a funny thing, right Like I know that I was our generation, I think might've been the very last one that was like well, you have to go to college in order to yada y, yada, yada, in order to get the american dream, in order to get the you know the house, the white picket fence, the 2.5 kids and a dog.
Speaker 1:How many kids? Look, I'm just. These are just stats that the government gives out. I don't know where 2.5 came from.
Speaker 2:0.5 yeah, I don't know where the 0.5 is at, but that sounds morbid, but anyway it does uh 0.5, 2.5.
Speaker 1:that's the average, apparently.
Speaker 2:but I'm like you, you should, you should just round up that's a round up, bro, like that's a crazy staff to round up. That's a crazy stat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay let's just say, let's say two we'll say two we'll say two but like you have to go to college in order to get this, when really all it ever was was relationships. Now these are ones really you get relationships from college right. So, like hate it and or love it, I would. I go back to school for graphic design. Yes, because of the social element of it, I'm super glad I stayed on campus and well, for three years. The last year was just like spending too much money, but uh, you know relationships, most of them that I've like maintained to this day, not even on like some professional shit, but just like genuine friends. Like great, I've learned a lot of stuff just from, from different people, but I don't know like I.
Speaker 1:College is such an interesting conversation, I think I think it is too, because if I were to go back to school right now, if if I could redo my college journey honestly, I would go into it with. This is going to sound controversial, but c's get degrees, the formal aspect of it I'd be like whatever, but I would focus more on the networking side of things and I would go to more on-campus events. I would join more clubs and organizations.
Speaker 1:I would stay on campus for all the time that I was there four years, Like that's. That's how I would have done it, Because nobody gives a fuck about your your grades, right now.
Speaker 2:I've never had anybody ask for? Oh, dante got an A plus in psych too. Can you believe that, janice? Yeah, nobody cares.
Speaker 1:Who cares? And psych too. Can you believe that, janice? Yeah, nobody cares. Who cares? Because, like, even with the first jobs that I applied to, none of them asked for my transcripts, none of them.
Speaker 2:They. They were more concerned with my portfolio.
Speaker 1:Yes, so like I would have done more networking, because I feel like that's what I lacked in college. I I wouldn't have focused as much on the formal education aspect of it, because at the end of the day, unless you're doing something like education or if you're studying to become a doctor, that yeah, you should definitely stay in classes and actually pay attention and learn everything. But whenever it comes to creativity, I don't think the formal side is as important. No, because it never was. Yeah, I mean, creativity isn't, it was never meant to be in the bounds of structured education. It's so fluid and ever-changing that you can't really just put a rating or a grade on it and just be done with it. He just gave me the finger guns.
Speaker 2:I don't need to say shit else I mean really like that's, that's pretty much it, and uh, yeah, I really don't need to say anything else, like I understand.
Speaker 1:Look, I understand for those of you that are, like, really passionate about art and history and you know just traditional fine arts.
Speaker 2:I understand the passion, but you don't need to spend scores of thousands of dollars in order to like get that off though. You know what I mean. Like all the people you're studying never went to college.
Speaker 1:True, so, honestly, get like a degree in business or marketing or something, and if you really want to take those classes as your electives, go for it. Or if you want to just learn that stuff on the side, go for it. But if I had to go to college like if it was just handed to me, here's a full ride study what you want. I would study something like business, economics, marketing, something in that realm mass communication. That's a huge one.
Speaker 2:I've got a lot of double major like communications design students these days or like computer science. Yes, it's really smart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the way to do it. Yeah, like, honestly, don't just, don't just have one of these like go for another program. Or if you're gonna do this, you need to have another program alongside of it, like liberal arts degrees. Nobody's getting hired for a reason. They're not relevant, I'm sorry. And if you're super, if you're really passionate about that for whatever reason, get something adjacent to that that's actually relevant and can actually give you some type of professional viability and listen, I you're coding like bro coding I wish I would have and there's still time.
Speaker 2:I understand, but I genuinely dislike coding just because it's like I'll fall asleep, like I just don't snooze fest. It's a snooze fest, but like that's. If we're going to college to do something that's going to make us money, coding is the only thing that matters, or computer science and security, like cybersecurity. Cybersecurity, that's what it's called. Huge, huge, huge, huge Like so underrated, if you have a government position you are set for life.
Speaker 2:Beyond set, Beyond set. And you're making. You're probably coming out the gate making 250 in St Louis. 250 might be a little high, but we'll say 120.
Speaker 1:I mean more like 110.
Speaker 2:110. Yeah, we'll say 110.
Speaker 1:But 110 is solid. But like, even in this day and age, 110 is like hey you got it.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of high point. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:That is a lot of high point. A lot of coffee, a lot of high point. Yeah, you could get it every day. Get a coffee every day. Don't listen to gen x and all that. Just get your avocado toast or whatever. That's right because you can. But I, I agree get a practical skill that's gonna make you money, or go to fucking trade school to make you money or go to fucking trade school, bro trade.
Speaker 1:Not enough people, because I'm glad you said that. Look all creates. Creativity is always going to be there. But you know what? This building that we are sitting in had to be structured by engineers, architects, electrical engineers. You had a construction crew that put it together. You've got inspectors. You have so many people that went into the like this, not to mention even just manufacturing like all this shit, that we are using the lights, the cameras, the action, the microphones the computers, all this shit had to be assembled, designed by somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not to mention, like we all, we all use the bathroom. I'm going to run to the bathroom after this podcast. Plumber's got to be involved in that. What happens if it stops working? What happens if the toilet's backed up? Plumber's got to come fix that shit.
Speaker 2:Now, when I ask myself the question of would I do college again, when I remember trade school, then I'm like maybe not People don't talk about trade school.
Speaker 1:Then I'm like maybe not people don't talk about trade school enough when it comes to, like talking about formal education. College and trade school are hand in hand and people need to respect both, but I feel like trade school is just slept on well, I think it's just because what, what, what, what, what, what, what.
Speaker 2:I mean ever since the whole gen x situation, like the college boom, yeah, like everybody's been like super pro college and like, oh, we're so smart because we're going to college, we don't need to be a dumb bricklayer. But now for well, for one college is way oversaturated, overpriced, over, over, over over. Probably maybe like in the next 10 to 15 years.
Speaker 2:But like, yeah, I, I do think back on it. I'm like I probably absolutely would have gone to a trade school. That's the way to do it. But I also like work, like I properly love working on stuff like I got oh lord, yeah, I probably got tools in my car right now. This shouldn't be out, but uh no, but it's, it's relevant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's super relevant. Like there will always, as long as shit is being made, shit will need to be fixed, maintained. That's real like cars oh my god, electric gas hybrid, whatever oh my god, yeah, like I know so many maintenance techs that are doing great, yeah, just because they know how to fix a car not to mention you could work at like a dealership and then have a side hustle business of your own that's right.
Speaker 2:And guess what? They're still smart, even though they didn't go to college. They're hella smart. That's a big pet. Do you know how many people?
Speaker 1:don't know how to change a tire, bro, they're the idiots. They're like I could just call AAA and they could. It's lame.
Speaker 2:People do not put enough respect on that, bro they don't, and I genuinely cannot stand when people do that shit, like oh, you didn't go to college, you're working at Dobbs now. Oh, but I'm changing your tires, aren't I? So like yeah, it's, you came here to get your oil changed, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You can have more month, you can have more degrees than the month of July and still not be hot. You know what I mean. Facts. So yeah, it's a, yeah, I'm very pro trade school. I would do that right now, honestly, if somebody like presented me some type of opportunity, I'm like say less, let's go do it it's great exercise too.
Speaker 1:So that's another thing is yeah, it's movement, it gets us granted, it is a lot of wear and tear on your body yeah, but you get wear and tear regardless, right, but you gotta choose, you gotta, you gotta choose because like a lot of desk jobs. You're not getting enough wear and tear regardless. Right, but you gotta choose, you gotta. You gotta choose because, like a lot of desk jobs, you're not getting enough wear and tear.
Speaker 2:Well, you're getting a different type of you're getting a different because, like when you sit at it and I learned this the hard way, right so like when you sit at a desk job, um, you know your muscles like form and then when you they form to the sitting position, then when, when you stand, your lower back is fucked, your knees are fucked, your your neck they literally call it tech neck like when your head leans forward, when really it's supposed to be like you're sitting up straight, and you know, at the risk of this turning into like a medical discussion, like that's something I've learned firsthand, like why is my lower back so fucked up? And in research it's like oh well, if do you sit at a desk for more?
Speaker 2:than eight hours and it's like, yeah, it's like stop, chill, chill chill, I've been called out yeah, no. But like once I got consistent I was like, all right, yeah, so this whole sitting at a desk thing is not great. Plus, I don't know, I fall asleep anyway when I'm like I'm just unable to sit for a very long period of time yeah, I, yeah, I gotta get up and like move around at least every even if it's just like okay, I'm just gonna walk around, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm just gonna stand up for a bit. That's why I like standing desks. I have one at home, yeah, because it's just.
Speaker 2:It's nice to have variety I really like, though, how you were talking about graphic design being more of an aside than, like, the main dish. You know, because that makes I'm I won't say I've never heard that, I thought about it, but you're definitely the first person who has, like, said that so concisely in a way that makes sense. I'm like, yeah, actually, because, like it's the way maryville applies the, the ethos, their ethos to graphic design is seeing sounds like it's worlds different than ucms and that's not a slight to use to you or ucm or whatever, but it sounds like there's not just a consistent way of handling graphic design throughout St Louis, missouri, the U S, the Midwest, the world whatever Right, and that I mean that just shows that it's a testament to how it's a fallacy Like yes, Like yeah.
Speaker 1:If it's, I mean it's subjective right, like if it's subjective.
Speaker 2:why are we teaching it so subjectively? Things could get awfully conspiratorial from here.
Speaker 1:I'm going to I mean creativity is. The creative industry is very volatile. Yeah, volatile, however you want to say it, I think it's just so turbulent and unstable and always ever changing and evolving. Yeah, so that's why it's almost an impossible task for everybody to be on the same page about it, because I think that would defeat the very premise of creativity. Yeah, because it needs to be open-ended, it needs to be free thought, free thinking.
Speaker 2:It needs to be free thought, free thinking. What did you? So Dante is about to graduate. Okay, what is Dante's dream? Like graphic design position.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I wanted to be. I wanted to be a designer at an agency because I wanted things to look different every day.
Speaker 2:What kind of?
Speaker 1:agency. What kind of work I should say. I would say mostly in a kind of a hybrid of like food and beverage, but then also like, just honestly, brand imagery yeah, like, because they're both very fun. You can push the boundaries a little more with like how you present it. That's kind of how I pictured myself as like at an agency, becoming an art director and then eventually a creative director. Yeah, that's how I envisioned the pipeline going. That's how I envision the pipeline going, and I think that still kind of stands true to like now, because even starting a videography business, I mean, every day is different.
Speaker 1:I have clients in food and beverage. I have clients in entertainment. I have other influencer clients like I have who we shooting a shot at. Right now, though, I've shot my shot with Panasonic. Look, I've made a video. I made two videos actually, not to mention Lumix UK was the one that acknowledged me, not the US page, weirdly enough. Right, I'm like maybe I need to go across the pond, but I think pretty much. I think of things that are in my daily life that have that I actually use Cause whenever it comes to partnerships. I don't want to just force it.
Speaker 1:I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to just like, take it just to take it because I'm like it has to make sense and if I'm not genuine about the delivery and it's not like actually meaningful to me, I feel like it's disrespecting you as the listener, you as the viewer, Because and you as the listener, you as the viewer, because and you as the designer, because you're gonna hate it in time.
Speaker 1:Literally, yeah, like I've I've done previous like sponsorships with riverside. That's a software I'm we're still talking about that but it's something that I use to produce podcasts and it's like I can. It opens a whole world of being able to do podcasts remotely with people. But and this is, I guess, is almost like a free freaking plug, because, like, you can do meetings, you can do panels and all that kind of stuff and actually record that. So it's like I know that most of the people that listen are in the creative industry. They're in the creative marketplace. So I think about these people. Is that actually beneficial to you too? Yeah, so, like you can have, you can do your own virtual podcasts, and it'll, like there's ai tools that'll make shorts for you. It makes your job really easy. So, like, obviously it helps me. Is it going to help you too, though? Yes, ultimately it does. So that's why I'm like, yeah, that's a partnership. I would say yes to yeah.
Speaker 1:Or like Panasonic, I mean, I learned how to shoot video on these cameras. I have a business using these cameras. I'm actually about to go to a shoot in about 10 minutes to go produce a film with these cameras, you know like, and then Adobe software that fucking everybody can use, you know, yeah, everybody's catching strays. I'm like, come on, let's work together, because it's it's true. Yeah, I don't know that that was kind of a ramble or a rant, but hopefully that provides some insight as to why I don't have like a ton of sponsors, because I'm very picky.
Speaker 2:It's got to make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't want to just take anything and everything which, for those that do that, more power to you. I'm sure you're getting a bag. You're getting a bag.
Speaker 2:Nah, because and I appreciate you being nice, and a year ago, probably a month ago, I'd be in the same thing I and really I can only say this for myself. Right, because, yes, more power to you, right, to ease off the gas pedal a little bit. But I do think that we as designers I don't know, we complain about so much. We, all of us, every single one of us, we complain about a lot without realizing just how much power we hold in every situation. Like these brands don't get shit without us making something for them, without us crafting, cultivating, designing, connecting, you know, whatever, whatever word you want to use there. That's us in an ideal situation. We're collaborating with a brand and they have equal at least equal like creative capacity and input.
Speaker 2:Most of the time and I know graphic designers and like art directors know this that is not the case. It's us dictating what the fuck's going on. So I feel like so many of us get caught up like just accepting more or less whatever to get the bag, and we end up kicking ourselves at the end of the day, contributing to societal anxiety and all of that, when really it's just, like you know, and this is something that I've had to wrestle with just a bit, but like it's like you know, if you just say no or just don't, you know, pursue money solely, like, things would probably be different and what's what would happen? There is like these other entities would just follow suit because they are going and some entities are like already understanding, like hey, we see that you use our product, we're over here in the uk, but you know, would you like to take a trip across the pond? I hope you get this email one day because you deserve a trip to london.
Speaker 2:But you know, like I think these are the types of relationships that we ought to have as from, like the agency perspective to uh, let's see, agency in-house freelance I know there's at least like two other types of positions but like I think like true creativity comes out even like everybody wins when we're able to properly connect with each other and the mission and the brand products service, whatever the fuck. The thing is Right Like wins when we're able to properly connect with each other and the mission and the brand product service, whatever the fuck the thing is right like and this is what I tell my students too right like this is not, by any stretch, I think, a profound thing.
Speaker 2:But now we really have to wrestle with this because I mean, for one, we got ai and I don't necessarily want to use all our minutes on ai, because we'll find that we can talk about that uh in a separate. Yeah, that's a separate thing, but like, yeah it, it get your money, but also, you know, like know your audience for this stuff.
Speaker 1:Know your audience and know what you want to do yeah, honestly, like, what do you want?
Speaker 2:like, at the end of the day, you know not everything is for sale, but everybody pays a price for something. So like, unless you figure out that whole like fountain of youth situation, which is good luck, yeah, and if you got it, sit on that and don't sell it. But like, I don't know, like, do do some cool shit unless you do want to sit and make banner ads there.
Speaker 1:These people, these people exist yeah, and it's all good, we need them. I mean they they do play a role.
Speaker 2:Everybody has their role.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just had a reaction to the banner ad like yeah, I know I, I'm like I would not want to do that that person would not be me. Yeah, but at the same time that we do have to remember that there is a role for everybody yes, and they do play a part in the bigger picture. Yeah, some, of course, are bigger fish, but we still need, you know, every role to be filled in the pond on that note, I didn't know what I wanted to do with my degree.
Speaker 2:I just knew that I've been an artist my whole life, and by that I quite literally mean like drawing, painting, etc. Yeah, uh, and I knew that. Just trying to be an artist at the time jokes on me now, but like at the time I was thinking like I can't just be an artist like the whole starving artist bit. I felt that same thing because my first major was illustration and then we've got you know parents or or caretakers who are from previous generations, who are absolutely reinforcing that you're lucky if you if you have not absolutely, but you know, I think, I think at best they're like all right, you can do this, but also think about money.
Speaker 2:If you have not absolutely, but you know, I think, I think at best they're like all right, you can do this, but also think about money anyway, which you should.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you absolutely should, it's a practical thing to say I'm not sliding that whatsoever Right, but this is really to say like I, you know, was I found myself wanting to do things that other people wanted to do, like, oh, I want to you know work at a not you but like I wanted to work at a firm or so. And so I was thinking like, oh, I'm going to Nike, like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going all the way, like I'm going as high as I can possibly go, I'm going to either Nike or no. There was no other option. It was Nike or some probably some other like shoe, maybe Adidas, maybe Adidas, well, maybe.
Speaker 1:but I thought for sure, like, yeah, I'm going, I'm going well then that was an accident, uh through like a temp placement agency, which was crazy.
Speaker 2:Bro. They told me new balance was oh, we got a position for you with new balance.
Speaker 1:I said, like the shoes like right, sometimes like you get those like, oh yeah, it's with these people.
Speaker 2:I'm like huh yeah, and I'm like what they said. Oh, they got an office around the sunsadios and I literally said, where are you talking about? Because I went to kirkwood and I know this area and I've never seen and they told me where it was. Sure as shit office was right next to panera's now old hq, which I also learned was out there.
Speaker 1:You know what? I remember that now because I bro it's right there. I did interview with panera. Yep, big at will and they've moved since right, but like yeah, big ass building.
Speaker 2:It's a huge building behind the home depot where foot rip fudrockers bro, but, like, you know where that whole complex was. But this is to say I. I came to realize that I didn't want to do any of that, but I still wanted to like, use my creativity for something. So I ended up, um, like, getting into the more, like social entrepreneur, social design for good realm at the time, and it turned out at the time that was not a very developed scene. Like I literally did a portfolio interview with what was that the AIGA student conference at the time, and two out of the three people that I talked to were like yeah, you don't, you don't really belong here and I'm black at Maryville.
Speaker 2:So I'm thinking the fuck, you mean I don't belong here. And they were like, well, what I mean is like your work would not necessarily fit with any firm here in St Louis. Like you're, either you should go pursue something outside of St Louis or start your own thing, because this category does not exist here right now. And you know, now here we are in 2024 where everywhere, not everybody, but like we got a lot of social leaning, climate leaning things. But at the time it was like so I think that's partially what's informed. Like my path outside of work is because I to your exact point, like I don't want to just go get a job at a design job or some some yeah, some old place. Like I want to find some type of purpose and function within that that I feel satisfied with, and new balance was fire, though I'm not gonna lie, new balance was hell of fire, yeah, and they weren't even cool to wear at the time.
Speaker 1:Now, here they are back again, but like pardon that he was part of the trend setting bro, I was making banner ads high key no, I think.
Speaker 1:I think environment is another factor yeah kind of like determined, I guess really both of how our journeys went is like being in the Midwest it's not, as I don't want to say, developed, but I think it's just lagged behind, it's not as robust. Yeah, it's a slower lifestyle and with that also you get slower moving trends. We're slower to adopt things. And I'm not saying us because, like, obviously we're with it, right, but the people that are decision makers in the midwest, specifically like st louis, what we're talking about they're not as up to date with everything. They're a little more like well, do we really want to do that? Or oh, what is that? What is that?
Speaker 2:like like we're just gonna stick with what works but they'll still look at the new york city's, san francisco's and be like, oh well, this person's from they'll do the same thing that we're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah look what they did. Yeah, it's, it's. It's a funny little dichotomy. They got going on. But yeah, like we are, I think, especially in the design space like a lot of F&B, a lot of well, let's see Anheuser-Busch, monsanto, slash, bayer, et cetera Like it's changing, though at least in the past I would say, a post COVID, we've been changing for sure. Now that we see the internet can get, say a post-covid, we've we've been changing for sure now that we see, the internet can get us a lot of shit look bro, I'm just trying to.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to make cool shit, all right you said I'm just here so I don't get fine some video.
Speaker 1:I'm just here, so I don't get fine I'm just here, so I don't get fine. So yeah, be sure to like, subscribe, rate the show, follow the show, give me five stars. Ring, ring the notification bell, all that shit.
Speaker 2:You know what it is and consider trade school, if not, for you.
Speaker 1:So apparently my camera has full memory, so now it's just a freeze frame of me. So thank you for watching this episode. It's just a freeze frame of me. I'll see you guys in the next one, peace.