Hero or Dick

Welcome to Hero or Dick — the podcast where Kate and KJ dig into the strange, funny, and unforgettable corners of history, pop culture, and everything in between. Each episode, we take on famous (and infamous) figures, events, and ideas, breaking them down with humor, insight, and just enough irreverence to ask the question that matters: hero…or dick?

From legendary icons to the odd stories behind movies, music, and everyday life, we pull the threads that make people and moments extraordinary. Along the way, you’ll get Kate’s infamous Fast Five lists (and KJ forgetting his), personal anecdotes, and plenty of chances to weigh in with your own takes.

Ever wondered if a celebrated artist was secretly a scoundrel? Or if a movie villain actually had a point? We live in those gray areas — the messy, funny, human places where the line between hero and dick isn’t so clear.

Join us bi-weekly for deep dives, playful banter, and the kind of conversations that leave you laughing, thinking, and maybe a little surprised. Whether you’re here for the history, the pop culture, or just to see if Kate finally got her car back, Hero or Dick is your go-to podcast for stories that entertain as much as they reveal.

Write in with your suggestions, stories, or just a friendly hello at heroordick2023@gmail.com.

Subscribe today — because life, like our podcast, is never just black and white.

Thanks!

~ Kate & KJ

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Hero or Dick

Hero or Dick, Season 2, Ep 5 - The Enigma that is Courtney Love

March 15, 2024 • Kate & KJ • Season 2 • Episode 5

0:00 | 34:09

Welcome to another episode of Hero or Dick!

Strap in as we dive into the complex tapestry that is Courtney Love's life and legacy. Infamous for her marriage to Kurt Cobain, Courtney's story goes beyond the tabloid headlines, weaving through a challenging childhood that includes an LSD dosing claim, to the heartache and financial turbulence following her husband’s death. With humor and sincerity, we peel back the layers of Courtney's public persona, reflecting on the resilience she's shown throughout her journey in the ruthless worlds of music and fashion.

Thanks for listening! We appreciate your support.

~ Kate & KJ

Speaker 1 0:01

Hi everyone.

Speaker 2 0:03

Welcome to Hero or Twat.

Speaker 1 0:05

Yeah, we had to alter it a little bit this week.

Speaker 2 0:10

We were just shooting the ship before we start.

Speaker 1 0:13

So this is piece and two, Damn it.

Speaker 2 0:14

I swallowed my gum again.

Speaker 1 0:15

Oh, don't do that. You swallowed your gum. No, damn it. No, don't ever do that.

Speaker 2 0:20

I always do it's like an involuntary.

Speaker 1 0:22

You're probably gonna die, I probably will, we're all gonna die.

Speaker 2 0:26

I'll be the one dying of a big ball of gum in my tummy.

Speaker 1 0:29

That's what I will say in your old bit. He died because he kept swallowing his damn gum.

Speaker 2 0:33

Yeah, and what else is in there? We don't know you ever swallowed things when you were a kid.

Speaker 1 0:38

No, I never really. Well, I will admit to eating paste, but it was a different kind of paste then you know like it was in a tub.

Speaker 2 0:46

Sure, back then it was nutritional.

Speaker 1 0:48

And it kind of looked like something you could eat. And I have tried Play-Doh. I didn't care for it. I know some kids ate it regularly. Really, I tried it why? Did peer pressure of seventh grade.

Speaker 2 1:01

Getting on that Play-Doh. That was before meth, now you just do meth Now you do meth, which apparently I had too much caffeine. My wife Brooke you know, she warned me before I got here she said I would kick back a notch.

Speaker 2 1:18

Well, yeah, I should have said that on here, but she said to not interrupt too much. Well, she didn't have to say these things. She just looked at me and I knew not to interrupt too much. Don't talk too fast, don't clear my throat too much, don't open a pop while we're doing the podcast, don't move shit around on the desk and don't swear so much.

Speaker 1 1:37

Oh, but I like to swear Sometimes, I like to save it up, though you can't just fuckity, fuck, fuck, it takes away.

Speaker 2 1:46

I didn't turn that off. But if you save it, save it when you really need it, then it makes some difference, like when you're yelling at your kids.

Speaker 1 1:53

Right, or like if I hear well, I don't yell at my kids anymore.

Speaker 2 1:57

Do they yell at you?

Speaker 1 1:59

Not so far.

Speaker 2 2:00

They might when it out really, you did a good job.

Speaker 1 2:03

We'll see. We'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 2:04

Wait till they're changing your diaper.

Speaker 1 2:11

So it's season two, episode five, and our topic today is actually an interesting one.

Speaker 2 2:22

You're kind of like no, it is, it is.

Speaker 1 2:24

It's Courtney.

Speaker 2 2:25

Yes, welcome Courtney. Hi everyone, I just got done smoking some Lucky Strikes.

Speaker 1 2:32

I did some heroin. She's not in World War II, sorry.

Speaker 2 2:37

I shouldn't say it. She punched me right in the face.

Speaker 1 2:39

She would. She has been known to throw things at people.

Speaker 2 2:41

Yep, you know why.

Speaker 1 2:42

Like to kill the battles.

Speaker 2 2:44

She's a powerful woman, she really is?

Speaker 1 2:45

She has a powerful woman.

Speaker 2 2:48

She's got some issues.

Speaker 1 2:49

She does, yeah, she does.

Speaker 2 2:52

But I'll let you go. You always have better notes.

Speaker 1 2:54

I have mine on my phone today, so hopefully we're still recording while I'm doing this. Well, courtney is. She was born in 1964. So she's, you know, almost 60. Yeah, and she's had a long interesting healthy lifestyle. Not healthy at all. I don't know if she's healthy now.

Speaker 2 3:15

No, it didn't seem so.

Speaker 1 3:16

It didn't seem like it, no, but you know she is in her own right a singer, guitarist, songwriter, actress. She was married to that guy. Who, that Kurt Cobain guy?

Speaker 2 3:30

She ever heard of him? No, never heard of him. His oh anniversary of his death's come up.

Speaker 1 3:34

It was April, something like that April 4th or something. Yeah, people were devastated 94, I think.

Speaker 2 3:39

Yeah, never forget seeing that on TV. And there was this lady girl, whatever, being interviewed, and she's bawling her eyes out and she said he promised us he didn't have a gun.

Speaker 1 3:50

And he got that song and don't have a gun. Well, it was a song At the time. He probably didn't.

Speaker 2 3:55

But he did, he did.

Speaker 1 3:57

He did? Yeah, he did, and they were only married for two years. They were probably together about three or four, but yeah, they were only had been married for two years when he died.

Speaker 2 4:09

Mm, hmm.

Speaker 1 4:10

And a daughter.

Speaker 2 4:11

Francis Bean.

Speaker 1 4:12

Yes, and you know, francis is married to.

Speaker 2 4:15

I did a couple weeks ago, but I forget.

Speaker 1 4:17

She's married to Tony Hawk's son.

Speaker 2 4:20

Riley Riley. We've had him on the show I like.

Speaker 1 4:24

Tony Hawk Riley with Francis Bean. I like that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 4:29

Tony Hawk.

Speaker 1 4:29

Tony Hawk's son.

Speaker 2 4:31

I know, but you like Tony Hawk yeah. I like him. We should do a show on Tony.

Speaker 1 4:35

Hawk Okay.

Speaker 2 4:36

Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 4:37

Put them in the notes. So, courtney, you know she didn't have an easy childhood either. Her mother was a hippie, so she lived in communes in Oregon, san Francisco. Her dad was the road manager at one time. For the Grateful Dad.

Speaker 2 4:54

Right, oh explain some things.

Speaker 1 4:55

And when her parents divorced, her mom accused her dad of dosing.

Speaker 2 5:01

Four years old LSD.

Speaker 1 5:02

Yeah, well, I had that. She was a toddler, I guess three or four.

Speaker 2 5:06

Whenever you have.

Speaker 1 5:06

Yeah, and the mom said the dead doster with LSD. So right there, that's not setting you on a path for success.

Speaker 2 5:14

Probably not. No, not, unless you're gonna sit around eating Play-Doh all day, getting getting. No that's terrible. But you know, I thought too that they were wealthy because she had lived off a trust fund and she was jet-match out of the fucking world.

Speaker 1 5:30

And I can't remember what her grandparents did, but they had some money and they gave her. It wasn't a huge trust fund, but it was enough for a young person to live off of. And she, she did become legally emancipated from her parents when she was about 16 or 17.

Speaker 2 5:46

Your kid's ever threatened that?

Speaker 1 5:48

Probably, but not to my face.

Speaker 2 5:50

Ours did A couple years ago. Yeah, I'm gonna get emancipated, you just laugh.

Speaker 1 5:55

Really Good luck. And you know, you never know as a kid I'm, I'm moving out. It's like shit. I don't have a cable, I don't have electricity, Right.

Speaker 2 6:05

Well, the pantry. Who's gonna fill my pantry? How am I gonna eat?

Speaker 1 6:08

Yeah, you never know how you get, how good you got it till you move out of your parents' house.

Speaker 2 6:12

But Courtney Love moved out with that trust fund money she did.

Speaker 1 6:15

She traveled all over. She lived in Japan, I think she lived in the in, I think, ireland or maybe in the UK, because I know in the UK she was in a movie, one of my favorite movies of all time Sid and Nancy. Oh what, you know it, cassidy, she wasn't that. She wasn't that she wanted to be.

Speaker 2 6:35

She wanted to be the main.

Speaker 1 6:36

She wanted to be Nancy, but nobody else could have wind like that. I wish I knew the actress's name, Sid.

Speaker 2 6:44

Was it French Russia?

Speaker 1 6:46

was it. No but she had a good wine going on. But Courtney was one of the party people with them. You know one of them hangarans to the sex pistols.

Speaker 2 6:56

I think people kind of avoided her a bit in the Hollywood world because she was kind of a handful.

Speaker 1 7:04

She wasn't one of them, for sure, and she didn't play by the rules. Yeah, for good or bad, I mean you know, dang it.

Speaker 2 7:10

Now that you're talking about her, I'm already starting to like her, damn it.

Speaker 1 7:14

Well, let's keep talking about her and see what we say at the end. So she did get her supporting role in Sid and Nancy, the movie from 1986. And if you haven't seen it, watch it, watch it, watch it. It is such a good movie.

Speaker 2 7:26

That's in black and white. That's the old, because it's old.

Speaker 1 7:29

No, but it's probably only on Beta.

Speaker 2 7:31

Beta max 10 years later, though. What was she in that was she was in people versus. Larry Flint, she was good.

Speaker 1 7:38

And you know what? She was excellent in that movie. And if you haven't seen that movie, I think it came out in 96. That is an excellent movie. Woody Harrelson plays Larry Flint. I never thought I would like that movie, but I loved it.

Speaker 2 7:54

She was nominated for Golden Globe. She was she was.

Speaker 1 7:57

She didn't win, but she was nominated.

Speaker 2 7:59

I was never nominated, were you.

Speaker 1 8:00

No, I was not, not her Golden Globe.

Speaker 2 8:02

You were in that movie.

Speaker 1 8:03

In what movie that one here in town, larry Flint?

Speaker 2 8:05

No, not that one. It was a long time ago, that one here in town last summer.

Speaker 1 8:10

Yeah, maybe I'll be nominated for that. Yeah, it's not out yet so.

Speaker 2 8:14

You still got a chance. You'll probably see Courtney in the green room back there you guys can cast out.

Speaker 1 8:20

Yeah, she was also in man on the Moon, which was another great movie. God, that was good I didn't want to like that one either, because I am not a Andy Kaufman fan.

Speaker 2 8:31

No party wondered if he got called a comedic genius, and he was actually just fucking crazy asshole.

Speaker 1 8:39

Yes, yeah, but Jim Carrey did a great job.

Speaker 2 8:43

Oh yeah, great job. Jim Carrey is awesome. Damn it Next. Okay, we could do a show on him too. Maybe we did.

Speaker 1 8:51

No, no, I don't think so no. So all the time she's releasing music with her band.

Speaker 2 8:59

That's a great name.

Speaker 1 9:00

It is a good band name, isn't it?

Speaker 2 9:01

They're pretty good too.

Speaker 1 9:02

Yeah, they are. I like some of their songs.

Speaker 2 9:04

Malibu.

Speaker 1 9:06

Malibu. Okay, I was thinking celebrity skin.

Speaker 2 9:08

Yes.

Speaker 1 9:08

Yeah and yeah.

Speaker 2 9:13

So let's see what else about Courtney Well you know, sort of that Kurt Cobain stuff was that she was on Sons of Anarchy 2.

Speaker 1 9:20

I'm sorry to interrupt.

Speaker 2 9:21

Oh, she was. I never watched it. You told me to watch that I did A dangerous show.

Speaker 1 9:25

It's all it's. It's involved.

Speaker 2 9:26

There's like eight seasons or so, but her album was released like a week. I think it was Her second album, live Through. This was released a week after the death of Kurt Cobain.

Speaker 1 9:37

Oh, that seems kind of coincidental maybe. Maybe I was thinking opportunist.

Speaker 2 9:44

That too, does she strike you as an opportunistic type of person?

Speaker 1 9:47

Yes, yes, she's looking out for her so it's how to play, and she knows how to play it.

Speaker 2 9:54

And if it was a guy we were talking about, nobody would give a shit right and would be expected you call him an asshole and move.

Speaker 1 10:01

Oh, is she a bitch or a good business woman?

Speaker 2 10:03

I think she's doing some good things, not drugs, I don't know about now, but she was pregnant when she got married to Kurt.

Speaker 1 10:13

I thought it was interesting there were only eight guests at their wedding, including the legend your eight, dave Crowell.

Speaker 2 10:20

Hmm, whom things got a little dicey with later on.

Speaker 1 10:23

But maybe that's in your notes. I'll let you know that's not in my notes. I was hoping on you serious falling out.

Speaker 2 10:29

I like them stuff.

Courtney Love and Kurt Cobain

Speaker 1 10:31

Before we get to that. I liked what she said about About her relationship with Kurt was that she said we bonded over pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 2 10:45

I guess everyone has a box thought, for sure you're gonna say farming.

Speaker 1 10:50

She said that he was a man's man.

Speaker 2 10:51

Would you have guessed that? She was a he was a man's man. I watched the interview that she did and she's a lot. Something that people don't know about him is that he was like about Fixing cars and working on cars and hunt it like he liked four wheeling and he was like a real outdoorsy type dude Really.

Speaker 1 11:06

Yeah, no, I did not know that about him.

Speaker 2 11:08

No.

Speaker 1 11:08

I I. My personal favorite picture of him is in women's dress.

Speaker 2 11:14

Yeah, that's a good one yeah.

Speaker 1 11:16

So I don't know, maybe pop down the dress and work on cars, and so you know oh sorry.

Speaker 2 11:23

I was thinking about her and how that would be a lot for her to put up with too. You could say that she latched on to him, whatever, but it was that'd be a hard life.

Speaker 1 11:32

It would be with the husband that famous Right be him being famous and him having mental issues. Yeah, yeah, kind of like my wife has to deal with you, and so when he passed, his estate went to Courtney and Francis Bean. Courtney got all the Writing and publishing right. Yeah which is worth millions, millions like Millions. Well, what's a half a million? Let's say so.

Speaker 2 12:05

She's not you mean half a billion, oh. Yeah yeah, I guess so.

Speaker 1 12:09

Yeah, not half a million. She's not hurting for money, but what she done lately.

Speaker 2 12:16

I don't know.

Speaker 1 12:17

I Couldn't, I couldn't find anything that she's not no so was she laying lower.

Speaker 2 12:22

Maybe she finally sobered up for good.

Speaker 1 12:24

Maybe she sobered up and she's got enough money to live on. Just got a house in Malibu or somewhere I don't know.

Speaker 2 12:30

Oh, oh Sorry, I thought we timed out what we know.

Speaker 1 12:35

Okay, courtney, courtney, courtney. So what else do we want to say about her?

Speaker 2 12:44

Well, I did have some other things here which I'm not remembering what. I can bring them up. I Think. Copyright infringement she had.

Speaker 1 12:58

Oh yeah, talk about.

Speaker 2 13:00

Yeah, well, just in general, they really had. They were fighting tooth and nail over that catalog and who had the rights to the music, and I think there was a really big fight over that song. You know, you're right, which she released. That wasn't supposed to be released, I think it was. That's a really good song. I remember hearing that on the radio. I'm like man, that thing's good. But since then They've made amends because there was a settlement involved and so everybody's friends now.

Speaker 1 13:25

Well, and I read something Somewhere I can't give you the source that you know they fought over it somewhat, but somebody else owned a Part of it, yeah.

Speaker 2 13:37

Chris Novoslak.

Speaker 1 13:39

Well, yes, but then like yes, the third member of. Nirvana. But then wasn't there like a publishing company involved, or maybe? They're a company who, of course, once they're part of it too.

Speaker 2 13:50

Yeah, forget the name of it, because that's Dave growing. The food fighters were with that for a while and they actually decided to they self publish all their music. Now, did you know that? Food fighters?

Speaker 1 14:02

I believe it. Because he doesn't want to be, because he doesn't want to Anybody else to own him right. So, if you go to a Dave girl food fighter concert, is he playing a Nirvana song? I?

Speaker 2 14:15

don't know, I've never been to one.

Speaker 1 14:16

I, neither have I, but I would love to send us tickets, dave.

Speaker 2 14:21

Yeah, Dave.

Speaker 1 14:22

I would buy a ticket if he came to Michigan to see him in a hot wings.

Speaker 2 14:26

I told you about that.

Speaker 1 14:28

I did not. You're gonna shot for like a wing, but anyway.

Speaker 2 14:30

So we're talking about more people but they're all bored.

Speaker 1 14:33

Well, courtney, yes, he is.

Speaker 2 14:35

Um, did you have any more about that? Because you know she was a fashionista too, she was yeah, she is the one that supposedly coined Kinder whore, the Kinder whore aesthetic. They have basically dressing in baby doll dresses yeah punk elements. So she really was adamant about she was the one.

Speaker 1 14:54

I believe that if she wasn't the one, she was one of the first.

Speaker 2 14:59

Yeah, yeah, she said she was the one.

Speaker 1 15:01

Well, okay, courtney, prove it.

Speaker 2 15:04

I wouldn't talk like this if she was here, though. No, no, fucking would scare the shit out of me.

Speaker 1 15:08

She would punch us in the face. Yeah no, she's throat kill, by the way.

Speaker 2 15:11

Do you think, whoever Did you watch any of those interviews that she had with different talk show hosts and things? I watched a couple like there were a few and she's looking at the talk show host. Like I might tear your throat out If you keep asking me these type of questions so which is? I don't know it's, she's got mental problems, but she's, yeah, I think you mean for her to be like that. Yeah, yeah why not?

Speaker 1 15:33

and what would she be? This is a good. What if? What would she be if she didn't hook up with Kurt Cobain? Would we even know her name? Or would she be bigger? Yeah, would she have more credibility Because they wouldn't be saying, oh, she's just court name because of Kurt.

Speaker 2 15:51

That's a good point.

Speaker 1 15:52

We don't know she was having success, though, before she was successful when she met him, but the band was successful and they were probably more successful than Nirvana when they first hooked up.

Speaker 2 16:04

Mm-hmm maybe, maybe not, but they were on the same plane for sure and you would think that if she Went out, if she never met Kurt Cobain, it may have been better for her. You know what I mean. Maybe she wouldn't have been such a fucking head case and the drugs and everything else.

Speaker 1 16:22

Well, she probably would have said I think she did drugs before she met him Well, at four years old she did well, he shouldn't know. Well, maybe she do LSD Okay.

Speaker 2 16:30

What if that LSD is what helped her be so successful in life?

Speaker 1 16:36

What if it's what fucked her up?

Speaker 2 16:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1 16:39

Which I would think one dose could. I don't know.

Speaker 2 16:43

I don't know either but you're for. That's horrible yeah.

Speaker 1 16:47

I hope that's just a bad rumor.

Speaker 2 16:49

You know her net worth is a hundred million. So Well, that's net worth that isn't count. Yeah, so that's pretty she's still a Cruing money you know, off of the publishing and writing rights.

Speaker 1 17:03

Yeah, and I don't know. I hope she has a relationship with her daughter now.

Speaker 2 17:08

I don't know that it was a strange, but her daughter was emancipated as well. But it sounds like again, that was an interview I watched. It was from a while ago that they patched things up. You know she hooked it up. Supposedly she was saying the Edward Norton thing, right? Yeah and he kind of was like downplaying it, saying no, no, no. But they dated. They were in a movie together, right? What movie was that?

Speaker 1 17:34

was it.

Speaker 2 17:37

Shit, I don't know, but trapped. Yeah, yeah was it. She also had been linked to Steve Kogan and Billy Corgan. Oh my god, I like Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins. Then you wonder hmm, what's she trying to?

Speaker 1 17:51

Or maybe that's just you know musicians, you meet people on In your job and maybe that was just people she was meeting or knew or went to a party and they were all there. We don't, I guess we don't have that information.

Speaker 2 18:03

No but.

Speaker 1 18:06

She never remarried.

Speaker 2 18:09

No, she didn't did she no, and and. She's actually living in the UK now. Yeah yeah, but she's not working on an album for a long time, which is fine.

Speaker 1 18:24

Sometimes it takes a while.

Speaker 2 18:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:27

Well, I watched a Interview with Paul Simon of Simon and Garfunkel fame.

Speaker 2 18:31

You know him never heard of him. Now, my family loves him.

Speaker 1 18:35

He was on Stephen Colbert last night and he said sometimes it takes him up to a year to write a song.

Speaker 2 18:41

Oh, well, how old is he now?

Speaker 1 18:44

Well, he doesn't have years to spend. But I mean he? Because Stephen Colbert said I like the song slip, slide in a way, and he said I can tell you this about that song. Paul Simon said it took me about a half hour to write. It was the quickest song I ever wrote it's great and it's great and that's what Steven said, you know. So do you have doubts if it comes out that quick?

Speaker 2 19:04

He said no, you know, you know, you know if it's coming that quick.

Speaker 1 19:09

You know it's good.

Speaker 2 19:10

Speaking of Paul Simon, all right, he was on smart let's a while back. Have you heard that part Subsection here? And he it was interesting to listen to him talk and he was talking about how he's getting up there in age and now he's trying to spend money or give it away and then he's trying to, you know, make sure his kids are gonna be set up, which they will be, obviously it was pretty fascinating listening to him and then the other guy you just mentioned.

Speaker 2 19:34

Stephen Colbert. I think he was just on there too, oh. I'm smart, let's get, they get everybody.

Speaker 1 19:40

I know we got nobody we got, nothing we got.

Speaker 2 19:45

Yeah, she's our best guest. What would we call that belly who?

Speaker 1 19:50

belly who what?

Speaker 2 19:52

else we got about this. She was a pioneer, I would say, for female.

Speaker 1 19:59

Think so yeah she was punk rock at the beginning of punk rock.

Speaker 2 20:03

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 20:03

She was. I Think that is she a twat probably? Yeah, you know, but is she a dick? Or is she kind of? Is she a money grabbing media whore?

Speaker 2 20:23

Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 20:25

She's playing the business man. So is she a bitch or a good business woman? Yeah she's promoting herself. She is doing what she needs to do. Yes, she did some drugs in between. That too.

Speaker 2 20:38

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 20:39

So she hadn't done the drugs? Would she be more respectable or more professional, probably, but you know that was her, that was her upbringing.

Speaker 2 20:50

Yeah, no, and I think I don't know. I just think she was a strong woman with problems and she gets probably unfairly cast Because of the relationship with Kurt Cobain, and I mean she's done some shitty things. I mean tantrums, smack and fans?

Speaker 1 21:10

Yes, and I would. I'm gonna guess she was either drunk or on drugs every time she did that right.

Speaker 2 21:16

But you get somebody like Johnny Depp does that stuff and he's still a sweet. It's okay if he treats people like shit, but no offense.

Speaker 1 21:25

Johnny, I love him. Yeah, but you know, yeah, so I agree, I think she had some Dickish moves or Twattish moves, but overall I you know, I think she's all right. She's done what she had to do.

Speaker 2 21:44

Yeah, I'm actually gonna throw a little hero slap on her.

Speaker 1 21:47

Not a slap, I would not. That's not what I meant, jesus Christ I mean a hero.

Speaker 2 21:51

I'm gonna slap the tag hero on her just because of you know, like I said, the more I thought about it, if she was a dude we'd probably be saying she's a hero, no doubt, yeah yeah, she'd be Johnny Dout. Oh, speaking of no doubt, her and Gwen Stefani had a little tiff back in the day.

Speaker 1 22:11

Did you know that back in the 90s?

Speaker 2 22:13

in that song. Okay, I forget, but anyway, courtney Love made a crack about Gwen Stefani being a cheerleader you know like, because she's you know she's more refined and pop and whatever and she's a little cheerleader. That's why Gwen Stefani made that video on the cheerleader outfit. Oh, is that?

Speaker 1 22:32

Yeah, she was kind of smacking back that shit is bananas. Oh.

Speaker 2 22:40

I love it.

Speaker 1 22:41

Oh yeah, well, and so Courtney should say you're welcome.

Speaker 2 22:47

Yeah, I don't know, I'd have a cup of coffee with her.

Speaker 1 22:52

I'm not drinking tequila with her.

Speaker 2 22:53

No, I would have you eat Play-Doh with her.

Speaker 1 22:57

Sure, I'll eat Play-Doh with her.

Speaker 2 22:58

I don't like Play-Doh. Swallow my gum with her.

Speaker 1 23:02

I got some news about our podcast. What's that?

Speaker 2 23:07

I just want to show are we done with Courtney? We're done with Courtney. I forgot my fast five again.

Speaker 1 23:11

I have fast five for us and before we get into anything else, that really what you just said really relates to the no, being a strong woman.

Speaker 2 23:21

You're a strong woman.

Speaker 1 23:23

I try to be.

Speaker 2 23:23

You're good, so am I a bitch or a strong woman. You're a strong woman. Depends who you ask.

Speaker 1 23:28

So my fast five has a list of bitch or business women or good business women.

Speaker 2 23:36

Oh god, I gotta be careful.

Speaker 1 23:37

Okay, so the first one is Madonna.

Speaker 2 23:41

What do you want me to say?

Speaker 1 23:42

Is she a bitch or a hero or a dick you? Know, or a bitch, or business woman, I don't know.

Speaker 2 23:48

She's a good business woman. Oh, she's a great business woman.

Speaker 1 23:52

And some people might think she's a bitch. Some people sued her for being two hours late to her concert because they had to get up and go to work the next day. What? I think it's Madonna, she's going on her schedule. She's got her own time zone.

Speaker 2 24:07

You know, though, if I was Madonna I'm not. If I was a star and people came to see me and there was some reason that I was late for two hours, I would try to do something to appease them. Yes, but I don't think Madonna would.

Speaker 1 24:18

No, no, she's back doing yoga with some 27 year old dude. So, madonna, how about Jackie oh?

Speaker 2 24:27

Oh, she has to be a hero, don't you think?

Speaker 1 24:30

I think so. But, a lot of people didn't like when she married Onassis, because I don't know why, but she needed some money, man.

Speaker 2 24:44

She just did it, just for the money.

Speaker 1 24:47

Have you seen the pictures of Araya Onassis? Yeah, I know, you know she had to look out for her kids and she was used to a certain lifestyle.

Speaker 2 24:56

You know you got to work with what you got.

Speaker 1 24:59

She worked for years as an editor at I can't think of it publishing company and published lots of books, and so she had her own career. But you know, a lot of people said she was a loose bitch, but I think she was just a good business woman. Yeah, how about here's two, and I'm going to tell you about these two Betty Davis and Joan Crawford In your face. Yeah, so I've been watching on Hulu there is a show called Feud. It's maybe like six episodes, six or eight episodes.

Speaker 2 25:36

I got to get Hulu again.

Speaker 1 25:37

And the first season. There's a second season out right now, but the first season is Betty Davis and Joan Crawford's Feud when they're making whatever happened to Baby Jane, and it is so interesting to see both of them and they're both, you know, in the later years of their career. They're trying to revive their careers with this movie and a lot of people they are kind of bitchy, but they kind of have to be because that's how you get something done in Hollywood if you're over 50 probably now, but especially then in the 60s.

Speaker 2 26:18

That reminds me I'm going to say Hero, hero.

Speaker 1 26:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:22

But when you said about being a bitch, yes. There's a line in Dolores Claybourne when she says to the girl Dolores, sometimes being a bitch is the only thing a woman has to hang on to Sure that you know.

Speaker 1 26:36

There's also a really cool bracelet you can get. I think it's a ring too. It says on the outside it says be kind, and then on the inside it says of a bitch.

Speaker 2 26:50

I love it.

Speaker 1 26:50

I do too.

Speaker 2 26:51

You have the bracelet.

Speaker 1 26:52

I made one. No shit, I stamped it out.

Speaker 2 26:54

You know what, maybe you could sell. Some of those People email us.

Speaker 1 26:57

People would love to buy them. I can't sell them as cheap as like T-Mew or whatever.

Speaker 2 27:02

This is legit Hero or Dick merch.

Speaker 1 27:06

It's not my idea either, if you look on Etsy. They're all over I don't think it's.

Speaker 2 27:09

Nobody owns that IP.

Speaker 1 27:11

Nobody does.

Speaker 2 27:12

So Hero or Dick or bitch 2023 at gmailcom. Let's get a change our email, you can order a bracelet for $30. Is that enough?

Speaker 1 27:23

Yes.

Speaker 2 27:24

That's about the going rate. That's about the going rate for them Hero or Dick 2023 at gmailcom.

Speaker 1 27:31

And one more bitch or business woman was Hillary Clinton.

Speaker 2 27:35

I like Hillary, I do too. She thinks she's a bitch, but I like her.

Speaker 1 27:38

I think sometimes she had to be like that, like how she was I don't know, is it bitchy or sort of, or aggressive or firm Because that's the only way you get stuff done. If you're wanting something, we use that term bitchy.

Speaker 2 27:57

I don't use it to try to be derogative, but I think it's in. You gotta be a bitch. Sometimes Even a dude has to be a bitch, not like a little whiny bitch.

Speaker 1 28:05

There's a difference between being a little whiny bitch and being a bitch. There's different levels of bitching.

Speaker 2 28:11

What you think be Hillary Clinton standing up there with all the male, white, fucking men. Oh, you know, that's a lot of bullshit she has to put up with. Just women in general have to put up with a lot of shit. Yeah they do. Oh, my poor mother. No, she had to put up with some shit from us, but anyway, that's not my that's a good list. I like that.

Speaker 1 28:32

Okay. Um all right, so, and I just want to give a belly whoo out to Mark T, my favorite electrician. Well, maybe not my favorite cuz I know a lot, but I saw him recently and he said oh, Marky T and so I don't see him every day because I don't work and I your way. That I missed him and he said well, I listen to your podcast sometimes, nice. Oh, hey, marky.

Speaker 2 28:57

Thanks, marky. We need to get a t-shirt with you your face on it, oh, my god, that would be horrible. No no we're getting it.

Speaker 1 29:04

I'm gonna we're not doing that, I do whatever I want.

Speaker 2 29:10

Speaking of fans, we've. We don't have a lot of fans, we have some and we appreciate them. 69 different cities in the United States. We have listeners in wow three countries. Three countries Yep, Australia. Well, the United States is one of them. Well, yeah okay, you must have turned some people on while I tried to. Hey Edward, the most recent downloads popping up here Uh, tulsa, oklahoma, oh yeah, cincinnati, ohio.

Speaker 1 29:37

Oh, cincinnati, ohio, Sure.

Speaker 2 29:38

Sydney, new Wales, the New South Wales, orange Park, florida. So Our most of our listeners are listening to us on Spotify. Google podcast comes in second than our bus broke.

Speaker 1 29:52

App and so music. Google podcast changed somehow, and I don't know how or what they do, but they change. So if you can't find us on Google, keep looking other places.

Speaker 2 30:02

But yeah, I mean, this is pretty cool, that's fun, but our most popular episode- is.

Speaker 1 30:07

Let me guess, is it cereal? Nope, oh really first one. The first one, ben Franklin and Franklin, which was back on March 9th. Oh my god, oh no, we lost, we did our anniversary.

Speaker 2 30:23

We missed it. Fuck, we were talking about we're not doing anything for a one-year anniversary, folks.

Speaker 1 30:29

Yeah, I do a year and a half. How did?

Speaker 2 30:32

we miss it.

Speaker 1 30:33

Well it was. I was out of the state Son of a I was just getting back from the Grand Canyon.

Speaker 2 30:40

Yeah, that's hilarious.

Speaker 1 30:41

Which is the Grand Canyon. I have to say everybody should go there. It's truly Grand.

Speaker 2 30:47

Kate tried casting from their podcasting.

Speaker 1 30:49

It was a go to a much echo. So beautiful, everyone should see it. I have lots of pictures. They don't Do is don't even do anything.

Speaker 2 31:00

We got to start doing this with the camera too, so people can see us.

Speaker 1 31:04

I'm against that people, just so you know okay, what we'll do the t-shirt anyway but well, no, we're not gonna do a t-shirt, I'm telling you that right now, but we will do some kind of swag.

Speaker 2 31:15

Okay, well, we got the bracelets.

Speaker 1 31:17

We want to get that pretty soon so that we can as soon as we have. That we'll let you know like a year and a half anniversary. Why do we have what? Does that have to be a year?

Speaker 2 31:26

Yeah, we're gonna Courtney love this shit.

Speaker 1 31:28

We'll do what we want, we want you drink, though, cuz I don't.

Speaker 2 31:33

You smash a tequila bottle on someone's head.

Speaker 1 31:35

I don't drink tequila, though.

Speaker 2 31:38

What do you like?

Speaker 1 31:39

I like a rum drink.

Speaker 2 31:41

I like a gin and tonic. Yeah, vodka. Never mentioned how much I liked vodka back.

Speaker 1 31:47

Oh yeah, I've never been a big vodka fan.

Speaker 2 31:49

I think most alcoholics are, but oh god, I would mix that shit with tang and drink it we were in.

Speaker 1 32:00

We flew into Phoenix Arizona and we went to a liquor store. I straight away for on vacation, yeah, first thing you do so I'm trying to buy a gin and I want tonic for my vacation. So I said it was the sketchiest liquor store I was ever in.

Speaker 2 32:16

Those are the best.

Speaker 1 32:17

Ever. It was not the best, it was sketchy, it was scary. But I had my bottle of gin and Mike was buying some stuff and I said to the the people in there were very kind and generous and nice. I said can I get where's your tonic? And she said I don't know what that is. So apparently people in Phoenix at the sketchy liquor store are just drinking gin.

Speaker 2 32:43

They have plenty of gin. You don't need to mix that. You're not going to mix that. It's kind of Christmas tree-ish.

Speaker 1 32:47

Wasted. Yeah, it's kind of nice, juniper, juniper.

Speaker 2 32:52

That's a good summer drink Genitonics.

Speaker 1 32:53

My mouth is watering, tom.

Speaker 2 32:54

Collins too. Oh, tom Collins, you know, when I was a kid, I thought Tom Collins was a form of soda pop no kind of is for some people.

Speaker 1 33:05

Because the parents are like here, you guys, you can have, you can have, and it's all mixers right. You can have a seven-up, a Tom Collins or a Coke. That's all we got.

Speaker 2 33:16

That's all they need. Yeah, all right. All right, I'll do it. You know, what we should do is have an episode where we just talk about bad things that we've done because of alcohol I've got. I could fill some episodes.

Speaker 1 33:29

Okay, all right, anyway, all right. Alcohol hero or dick, yeah, oh, it depends. It really depends On the moment.

Speaker 2 33:38

On the moment. Yeah, on the person. Yeah, oh, definitely on the person. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 33:42

Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, well, this was my good. Thanks, people. Thanks for sharing our one-year anniversary with us that we didn't know about until the last 10 minutes of the show.

Speaker 2 33:52

Yeah, and again, if anybody wants to be a guest or has any ideas be critical. Whatever you want, Take it Hero or dick two zero, two, three at gmailcom.

Speaker 1 34:05

That's it.

Speaker 2 34:06

All right.

Speaker 1 34:06

Thanks everybody, see you next time, bye, bye.