Balancing Passion and Boundaries w/Molly Kelsey

In the 9th episode of Season 2, host Mandy Boutelle invites Molly Kelsey, the founder of the Cat Counsellor in Auckland, New Zealand, for a deep dive into cat behavior consultation. Molly shares her intriguing transition from a veterinary nurse to a cat behavior specialist, sparked by her experiences with a unique foster kitten. She emphasizes the criticality of recognizing and catering to each cat's individual needs, advocating for education-driven solutions over blanket approaches.

Molly openly discusses the intricacies and challenges she faced in starting and managing her business, including grappling with imposter syndrome and the vital role of setting clear boundaries in client consultations. She underscores the importance of ongoing learning and education in her field while highlighting the necessity of self-care and mental health in balancing the demands of her profession. Through her story, Molly's deep-rooted passion for enhancing the lives of cats and their owners through understanding and compassion shines through.

The episode also delves into practical aspects such as client compliance, setting professional boundaries, and dealing with the emotional and mental impacts of the job. Molly's journey is a testament to her dedication and love for cats, providing valuable insights for those interested in animal behavior and welfare.
------
Want to support Molly?
thecatcounsellor.com
Follow her on IG- @thecatcounsellor

If you are new to The Leashed Mind Podcast, Mental Health & Dog Training then please don't forget to like, follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!
@theleashedmind on Instagram
@theleashedmind.pod on Facebook
@theleashedmind on YouTube

Support the show & help us continue making great content for listeners everywhere - cancel anytime, no commitment!

Think you might have some great advice, experience or story you'd like to share with our audience? Head on over to https://www.theleashedmind.com/ and scroll down to our guest application!

Transcript

0:02

Thank you. Welcome back to the Leashed Mind podcast. I'm your host, Mandy Boutelle. On today's episode, I have a conversation with Molly Kelsey, the founder of the Cat Counselor located in Auckland, New Zealand. Molly shares her journey into cat behavior consultations, starting from her time as a veterinary nurse. Through her personal experiences with a unique foster kitten to her decision to specialize in cat behavior She emphasizes the importance of understanding each cat's Individual needs and educating owners rather than imposing a one size fits all solution Molly also discusses the challenges of starting and running her business, including dealing with imposter syndrome and the importance of setting boundaries for client consultations. She highlights the need for continuous learning and education in her field and stresses the importance of self care and mental health and managing the demands of her work. Molly's story illustrates her passion for improving the lives of cats and their owners through understanding and compassion. So we really talk a lot about. boundaries with clients and how to really set things up in a way that it ends up working for you. And you don't necessarily, I wouldn't say you avoid those conversations, but it, they become much less frequent when you set these boundaries in place and kind of just have a protocol of like what clients go through when working with you. So let's get into the episode. Molly. I am so excited to have you on the podcast. I was so excited when I saw that you submitted application. Cause I'm like, yay, finally, like another cat person besides Tabitha. Like, it's so awesome to like finally bring more cat people into the atmosphere. Yeah. I think we're like even more introverted than dog people. Sometimes I think like, I have my cats. I don't need to talk to anyone else, but all those people, that's a bit of both. yeah. Oh yeah. And like finding a topic that you really like talking about too will kind of like get the conversation going for sure. so for those that may not know you, may not follow you just yet, can you give a quick intro of where you are in your business, where you are in your education journey and just catch us up to speed with you? Yeah, sure. So I'm still in the baby business stage. Um, I've been going for about three years now and I run the Cat Counselor and I'm based out of Auckland, New Zealand, and I do consults in homes, uh, in clinics and then via Zoom for clients in New Zealand and overseas. And education wise, I'm working towards my IABC certification. and if you've said it before, you know it. pretty intense, so I'm just slowly clocking up some case loads and making sure I know what I need to know before I send it. And yeah, just taking the occasional seminar and webinar and yeah, just working towards having a bigger library of knowledge so that I can better serve my clients and their cats. Awesome. So what kind of really made you get more into cats as opposed to like training or doing anything else like that or anything like that? So I worked as a veterinary nurse, or studied straight out of, um, high school. Oh, wow. And then I Was working for a couple of years and then I got quite sick and I kind of had to take a step back from nursing and then I worked on reception and I did like it, but I always felt like there was something kind of I wanted to do more. I wanted to help more. And I fostered a lot of cats and kittens over the years working at a vet clinic. And the one I ended up keeping out of the hundreds was a little bottle baby who, um, I raised by himself and that was a completely new experience for me and his behavior and temperament were very different to my previous fosters and it got me curious about why and kind of having to adjust how I looked after him and what I did for him. made me kind of think, you know, like, Oh, other people finding these difficulties and then just working in a clinic, coming across the amount of people who were wanting to euthanize or rehome or wanting to, you know, reach for pharmaceuticals first, if there was a behavioral issue, rather than looking at why is this happening? Why is my cat doing this? And I found that there wasn't really Anyone doing this, um, or if they were, they were a bit behaviorist or they were overseas and I was like, Oh, okay, this sounds interesting. And then I kind of. Dove into a head first, I never do anything by halves and I kind of just like, this is what I'm going to do one day. And everyone's like, is that a real job? And I'm like, it is. And yeah, it's always, yeah. Is that real? Can you make a real? Yeah, exactly. And I was like, well, I'm going to, so, um, yeah, that's kind of where we started. And I'm still, still curious. Still learning. How? So I'm curious, before we really even dive into anything, what were the temperament differences that you noticed with your kitten that you were like, ooh, let's like crack that open a little? Yeah, so he was very, uh, clingy, very human orientated, um, and his prey drive, like how he played, was very different. He didn't, almost, if I wanna add some more fire to him, it was like he didn't really get. What he was supposed to do. Didn't realize he was a cat. Yeah, his favorite toy was a pencil sharpener that he just liked to batter around, but any toy on a string or anything or, you know, anything that I'd usually use to initiate play with a cat, he just didn't really get the memo. And then with, you know, things like sleeping, he insisted on being under the duvet, and he was very, Very cuddly to the point that I was like, are you a cat? Like, he was very touchy. Like he loved being in contact all the time, which was quite different to, you know, a lot of cats will have a certain threshold for physical contact and his was very high. Um, and my, also my mom, cause my mom like just doted on him and yeah, he just didn't really get that other cats didn't want to be best friends with him outside. And so, cause I take him to work with me at the clinic. And so I think he kind of got used to cats at the cattery who were residents there and he'd kind of be friends with them and hang out. But then the cats, you know, our neighboring cats. We're like, no, and he's like, I don't really get it. Why are they, what, what? Like, I could see him outside and I was like, Oh my gosh, poor guy. Yeah. He just, he just didn't have the education. Like, you know, he hadn't learned how to be, I guess, a cat fully. which is, yeah, it was now I'm like. Yep, that makes sense. That's so interesting. I feel like a lot of the times, for so many of us that get into this field, it's always some type of personal level. We have some type of experience with an animal and we're like, Ooh, I want to learn more about that because a lot of us, and I think this coincides with the mental health thing, we like learning and figuring out behavior and A lot of that, um, I've mentioned this before in the podcast, but, like, I love learning about, like, psychology, mental health, behavior, like, cracking that open, and so I think that's why a lot of us, like, we get into this field and we talk about this, but then we're like, that doesn't apply to us. We're not the same. Like, we don't need that help with the mental health. Um, so on that note, How has your mental health been in growing your business and even just, like, starting to take that leap and saying, okay, this is the path I want to go down? There has been big periods of self doubt and imposter syndrome and, you know, all those fun things that we deal with when we're going into something new. I definitely really appreciate having the privilege of being able to afford therapy. Like, Being able to just talk about things, not in a business light, but just how my business was affecting me mentally. Right, we don't think about that. No, and I, I really didn't think about it differently versus going to a, say a nine to five job. Like it's quite different when you're the person, who is, you know, if you don't do the work, the work doesn't get done. It's not given to someone else. You don't get paid if you don't put yourself out there and do everything. You know, like the buck stops with you to the point that if you are having a bad day and you haven't got some measures in place to be like, okay, if I'm having a bad day, how can I, you know, redistribute my tasks and, you know, like try and make my business work around me. I didn't have that kind of mindset when I first started and I definitely went through times where I was like, I, I don't want to do this anymore. Especially because there are so few, I guess, people locally or even in general who do work with cats and their owners. I did it sometimes feel quite alone, and finding people online, like online community has been really important for me, just to have people who get it. I guess because a lot of the general public and my friends and family. Don't always understand, um, especially, you know, working with clients on very, um, emotional cases, um, where, you know, there's things like euthanasia being discussed or rehoming or, you know, people are being attacked or, you know, things like that, where there are high stakes, there is a lot of pressure as well and just having, you know, A framework in place for me to be like, okay, I have support for this sort of thing, has been really important. How were you able to kind of develop that system and gain those tools so that you could figure out how to navigate that and not feel so isolated? so it kind of stumbled across it by accident. I, was looking at some stuff about how dog trainers and dog behaviorists, um, manage client work. And I was like, Ah, it can't be that different. So I started having a look at those and just finding, People on Instagram, to be honest, and also just, um, you know, like modern psychology podcasts and things like that, just finding ways to make my business and the way I thought about my business work for me rather than against me, and also just sitting really clear boundaries, Also, not just with my clients, but with myself, because I'm one of those people that will work until someone tells me not to. Oh my god, yes. And it becomes a problem when it's 8pm at night and I'm still like hunched over my computer. You're like in that mode, activated. I like, I hyper focus, I'm just like, I'm doing this, and then everything else just goes away. And then I'm like, oh. Time blindness. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm so tired. I wonder why. Oh God. I'm so stressed. I wonder why. And so it's definitely been, um, quite enlightening, I guess, being in business for myself. It's definitely, I've learned a lot of things about my mental health that I wouldn't have if I had been working for someone else. Right, I think, I, I think when we make that shift to work for ourselves, we, it, it's kind of in the front focus of our brains because we're like, oh, oh, we don't have someone like regulating our hours and our time and like telling us to take breaks and vacations, it's like we're the one in charge of that. And if for a lot of us that have like ADHD and are neurodivergent, we're like, okay, cool. So I'm just going to keep going and see what happens. And then it's like, Oh, wait, now I'm, it's 8pm at night and I'm still very activated and on. And that's how we lead to burnout really quick because it's. that like, just let me hit all these marks and somehow I'll feel ready, accomplished, successful, then my mental health will take a break when it's like, oh wait, no, we need to set the dominoes in place before that happens. I love that as a new business owner, you're already kind of acknowledging that and setting yourself up. Before you're like, so burnt out and you really resent what you do, because I think that happens to a lot of us. Hello, myself included. so how has it been trying to figure out just navigating the business and keeping your mental health in check and prioritized in that? I have another question right after that. Yeah, um, I definitely have days where I completely forget to do that, to be honest. Yeah, sure. You're human. I get very invested in my clients cases because I see firsthand how bad things can get when people don't get help. Right. And so, Shutting that off, you know, like putting that down at the end of the day or morning or whenever I've carved out time that I'm going to be working has definitely been something to practice. and also just. Putting time aside for stuff that doesn't even touch on work, so something immersive, like, um, I do a lot of embroidery or things like writing that isn't related to cats at all, like, doesn't even touch on cats. Yeah, because I, like, you know, like you, I love animals and If I could, I'd be surrounded by them all day and doing stuff with them all day. But when it's your job, you do need to sometimes have a separation from that, just so your brain can take a break. Because it's very hard. Like, even when I go with my friends to the cat cafe. For me not to be like, Oh, that's a really interesting set up for that. Caddy, Caddy. And then I'm like looking, I'm like, yeah. And my brain is like work time. And so I try and do stuff every week. I try to every day, but not always can do it. But I try and do stuff that isn't related to my field or to animals at all. Which might sound a bit weird for someone who loves animals, but I find it helps keep me sane and grounded. yeah, just making time for myself. What does that usually look like? Aside from, like, the embroidery and doing stuff like that. I do a lot of baking. I love baking. yeah, my partner's mom was always telling us that we eat too much sugar but I'm like, hey, it's happy. It's dopamine, dopamine food. It makes us happy. Yeah. Um, so, things like that and then I'm one of those people that enjoys cleaning. So, I'll um, I'm like, So I'll be like, friday night and I'm like, what am I gonna, I'm gonna clean the shower? And I'm like, I get like, so into it and everyone else is like. Oh my god. What? like, this is great. And then I like finished. I'm like, Oh, I feel so good about myself. And then I'm like, Oh, I'm so relaxed. And so I think it's as simple as that. and even just listening to some podcasts that are completely on a different tangent, um, doing some journaling. I love a bit of journaling and yeah, just even just video games, play video games. Just, just for the, you know. Switch off and just immerse myself in another reality for a couple of hours every now and then. It does a lot of good. Yeah, I think that's why I read so many, like, fantasy books, because I love getting out of my head, and my husband will be like, Slow down! And I'm like, No, next one, next one. Like, I love it. Yeah, yeah, I read so much. It's, it's like my balm for like, when I'm like, Oh my god, this world. And then I'm like, Wait, this world is so Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go to this world, and then next minute, it's like four hours later. Yeah! And then it's like, Oh, I don't want to get back to work after that. No. Um, I love that you have all these different steps in place. Is that something that you kind of developed and thought about on your own? Or is that something that you worked with, um, with your therapist and work to figure out? A bit of both. Um, I struggled really bad with anxiety and depression when I was younger. Um, so from about 15, my brain was not cooperating at all. And then I started getting into therapy and, basically just learnt, you know, what stuff that I was doing that was hindering. Me being happy and what was helping me be happy. So I had a bit of help in that regard, but then it was just experimenting with different things. Yeah. Finding stuff that I enjoyed without it costing me, you know, too much physically or financially or mentally. yeah, I think cause everyone's different and you know, you have days where something might not. Do the job and other things might, also just having a bit of grace, for myself, it's been a big thing that I, I am, I'm still learning, to be able to be like, it's okay, you're not the worst person in the world, you know, like. You know the world's not gonna end because you didn't do this one thing. Yeah. Sometimes it's yelling very loudly that it's , but, but some, I've got these things in place where I'm like, no, but look at this pretty thing I made . Then it's like, right. Well, and I love that you work so hard to do that and, and. Try to shift that. I know how hard that is. I struggle with that myself all the time. Um, it's funny you say, like, give yourself grace, because my therapist just told me yesterday, like, Give yourself grace after this session. If you need to just take the rest of the day off and relax. And I'm like, Thank you! I do! I do! but it is like, Not every day is going to be easy. Not every day is going to feel the same. We're not going to have the same brain power we have every day. And I think having those systems in place. To pick us up when it's like, okay, I woke up and I feel like, crap, I don't want to get out of bed. Here are the steps that I have that I know will help me in this moment. But that's not going to be the same as when I wake up full steam ahead, let's get going. And I think it is like, you know yourself best. You know what will work for you. And it is just a matter of getting to know yourself better and finding ways to offset that. And I think it is just a lot of, like, like, I do this to myself plenty of, like, one negative thing happens, and I'm like, Go! I suck! I'm a horrible person. Like, I shouldn't do this. I, it, fuck. Everyone hates me. And then I'll be like, okay, but wait. Like, I got this really good message on the leash mine about how someone loved this episode. And then I'll notice my brain's still going like, But, but, but, but. And I'm like, no, like this was good. Focus on the good. And so I think a lot of us, we forget, like, we'll have all these great successful sessions. Most of the time we have really good sessions with clients. We have one bad one and we're like, we suck. We don't know what we're doing. And I think It takes work to get to that point, and, and help, and, and asking for help, for sure. that was a long tangent. so, with working with cat behavior and cats in general, how has, like, the shift been with clients in, in getting them on board with, you know, kind of following your protocols and being more open to, like, cooperative care and stuff with their cats? Yeah, um, client compliance is definitely the biggest hurdle I find. definitely what I found first was marketing myself to find the kind of clients that I willing or open to learning new things, and also willing to try new things that might make other people go, Oh, why are you bothering? Or that's silly. Or no, we used to do this with our cat and it fixed it. And the thing they did with their cat was like, yell at it or Spray it with a hose and fix the problem. And I'm like, Oh, no, okay. So just having a way that I can kind of weed out people that I know are not going to be a good fit for me and vice versa. cause it's one of those things, you know, like you go into a store and there's a bunch of sweaters, some of them are not going to be a good fit for you, but they're all sweaters. It's just, they're not the right fit. So first off finding the right clients and being able to kind of. Get them to come to you. so the way I worded like my website, my copy, you know, everything has been like, it's very force free, scientifically backed methods. Um, I work with your cat, not against your cat. and I help you encourage, you know, like a healthy relationship with them that's built on mutual respect and trust, blah, blah, blah. Uh, so it's not like I'm going to fix your cat or your money back or, I'm going to solve this and your cat's going to be different. Your cat's terrible. I'm going to fix it. Fix your cat, like none of that language. So I find that helps a lot. And then just with onboarding clients, I make it really clear that they need to have really simple expectations for their cats, not the expectations that a breeder or a TV show or their friend's cat has given them looking at the cat as the individual. Yeah. Looking at the cat as the individual for all their faults, all their flaws, um, all they manmade. that's a whole thing there and then also treat them like the individuals they are. And I find a lot of people, once they kind of click that, Oh, okay, my cat is, you know, an individual who is genuinely struggling with a, b or c or all of them together. I find people are often more receptive to trying, I guess, the. The new, the newer ways of managing and modifying behavior. and definitely getting everyone in the house on board. That's so important because you can have four people doing the right thing, you know, rewarding the cat for when they jump off the counter or ignoring the cat when they jump on and then tossing a toy on the ground, and then you get the one person who goes over and picks the cat up off the counter and puts them on the ground and goes, no. The cats, all that good work and then you've got this, it's, it's not going to fly because the cat's going to be like, okay, I'll just wait till no one's around and I'll jump on the counter. Yeah, things like that. So having everyone on board, I find that's a huge thing as well. and speaking people's language, definitely find sometimes I get. In my head, I always think quite academically when writing, you know, reports and things and I have to remind myself this stuff isn't relevant to my clients. They don't care about what was an initiating factor or, you know, they're not going to understand that. Yeah, yeah. Like they don't care. They just care about what's happening. A brief thing about why. And then. How to fix it. Yeah. That's the big one. And so, kind of, some people I find really enjoy all those bits in the reports. Other people, I just kind of get a feel that, no, you just want, do A, B, and C, three times a day, and change this and this in your house. Like, that's what they want. So also that I find is a big help for compliance. yeah, it's just treating also the clients not all the same as well. I find that's a big thing. Right. Right. We'll end your approach of not. You know, judging them, belittling them, making them feel crappy for however they've been handling it up until now, I think really sets the tone and helps them feel safe in the environment so that they can open up to you and share what they're going through. have you had any experiences with clients where you're just like, I really suck, I did not handle that well. And then ended up like internalizing it and just being like, I shouldn't do this. Yeah, definitely. Early on, it was actually my first case I got, and it was, yeah, it was two cats living in a house, and one cat the lady had found in a car park, and it'd been owned by someone, but obviously I don't know if she got dumped or got lost or something had happened and so she, out of, you know, goodness of her heart, she took the cat home because she was worried about the cat, you know, good, good reasons. she got him vet cared, she kept him separate to her cat and she was like, Oh, well, my resident cat has been friends with all my other cats. So, ergo. They should be besties. And so they were separate for a while, but they could see each other constantly through glass. So that was a lot of tension ramping up. And then I think it was her mom that mom or a relative left them in a room together and one was eating and it just went off like crazy. And so the owner ended up separating them and building like an outside house for the other cat. And like, she's very dedicated. Really? So I, yeah, so I started working with her about eight months after that had happened. That's a very long time. And we worked, I want to say six or seven months. Oh, wow. Okay. Like, and I said to her, like I said, you could do everything right in this situation and they still might not want to hang out together amicably. Right. Not even, not even besties, just. Spend time with one another in the same space, without becoming stressed. Um, and with that being my first case, and it was so difficult, I really was like, oh, okay, maybe I'm terrible at this. Like, what am I even, why am I even doing this if I can't even, like, my first case. And it's going so badly. but now hindsight, I'm like, a lot of people would struggle with this case. Like even now, I'd be like, yeah, even now I'd be like, okay, I'm going to be straight up with you. Like, you've been trying for eight months to get these cats to get on after a very traumatic event for both of them. I'm not going to beat around the bush and say that. I don't think it's super likely that they're going to be best buddies ever. I think the most you could reach for is, I want them to live in the house without attacking one another and keeping away from one another at the most. last I spoke to her, that lady, she has them still living separately, but they ignore each other on the other side of the glass, so. If that's what works, yeah. That's, and she's happy with that, so. That's fine. But yeah, like looking back now, I'm like, oh my gosh, there was so much pressure to place on myself. yeah. Karlye like, here I am coming in, I'm the professional, they're hiring me, therefore I need to give them all the answers and tell them that yes, this could be a result for them, when it's like, it's not likely. Why do we try to sugarcoat it? I don't get it. Because I did that so much of just trying to like, find a way to deliver it to them without like, letting them down almost, you know? Yeah, I definitely think if you sell yourself as a guaranteed fix as well, I think then you're setting yourself up. You're setting yourself up for a lot of trouble and also a lot of disappointment and Stress. Stress. Yeah. so on the note of stress, how has just like, not even, I always want to lead with saying like preventing burnout, but it's like almost impossible to prevent. Um, but have you been able to notice? It's the, maybe the path or the signs where you're like, oh, we're, we're getting close there. The iceberg is forming. Should I take a break? Have you been able to kind of notice that within work? I have. Um, I'll notice that I'm not as outside of the consult, I guess, enthused about going through the motions with work. Like, I'll be like, ah. I really don't want to do this, like, I just want to Like autopilot kind of? Yeah, yeah, like I'm going through the motions and it's, I don't have the same amount of like, passion that kind of drives me. I, if I start noticing that then I, I immediately block off whatever time is. Left in my calendar for that, for that week or the next couple of days, just so I have some breathing room to, if I want to do something else, I can. If I, if I want to work, sure, but I often realize now, like, that I do need to take time away. And it's like, sometimes I don't have that luxury because I've, I've booked clients. Right. And, um, but just having, I guess, some buffers also helps like try and like stagger my days that I'm available. but I do notice now, if I start sleeping a lot less, like if I have trouble sleeping and my brain's kind of just like work, work, work, work, work. And then I'm like, why, why is this happening? And it's. I always feel like I said this to my therapist, this was a couple of years ago and she always brings it up and I said, like, I feel like I'm at the pre, like the precipice of a burnout all the time. Like, I feel like if I go even one foot closer to the edge, I'm going to fall off. And yeah, she was like, well, your brain's been wired to do that since you were 15. So. It's a very hard habit to unlearn. So I've kind of been put in this position where I have to kind of assume I'm going to feel like that. And so I have all these things in place to kind of lessen the impact it has. I love that. I love how in tune you are with yourself, because I feel like a lot of us, it takes time to get there. And so it's nice hearing you acknowledge all these things and that you were able to look at and be like, okay, well, how do I Set myself up better. Cause that's all we can do. We can't go back and nitpick through experiences. It's just going to make us feel shittier. It's not going to, it's not productive. And I love that you are able to acknowledge that and just be like, yeah, let's give myself a buffer. I deserve it because that's the thing. And I think a lot of us. is the compassion fatigue and the empathy. And we get into this work because we care so deeply, but then we don't realize that we're kind of running ourselves into the ground because we care so much. so when you do get burnt out, Cause it happens. What do you usually do to kind of like bounce back from that? Oh my goodness. I'm trying to think what I do. Besides like having the buffer days and stuff like that. Yeah, but in the buffer days, I'm one of those people where I'll be like, Oh my God, this is so like too much for me. And then I'll go and dye my hair. Like I'll do something like that. Or, um, I'll make an effort cause I'm, I'm really bad with keeping it like Seeing my friends like adult friendships are like, you know, oh, it's so hard. Yeah No hard everyone's like in different parts of the world or one like to be introverted Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like I don't really want to hang out with people but I I need to So I'll make it I'll make an effort to do that And then just getting out the house. I bod, which is great most of the time, right? But when you work from home then it becomes a bit problematic, so I'll go and do some yoga at the park, or I'll take a book to the park, you know, just something that resets me, because I'm out of that environment, just to kind of give myself some time off to just breathe, or even, like, I'm one of those people that likes going to the grocery store. So, I'm like, I need this one thing for the grocery shop, so I'll go there and I'll just look around. It's a good place to people watch too, yeah. It is, yeah, and I'm always nosy, I'm like, what are people buying? yeah, and so just things like that, it takes me out of the environment where I've become burnt out. and then, yeah, long, longer term things is, I try to every week on my birthday just take five days off, Just, and that's just, yeah. And the first year I did it It was hard, so hard, oh my god, I like lasted three days without my email on my phone, and I was like to my partner, I was like, can I please just download a check, like, that everything's okay, why wouldn't things be okay, and I was like, you don't understand, and now looking back, I'm like, you idiot, like, I'm like, like, what is gonna happen, you like, had all these things in place for clients if they needed help, like, you had it all sorted, but my brain was like, ah, what if, so, Yeah, just taking time out for yourself and giving yourself permission I think is really important because I think hustle culture has kind of ruined our ability to take care of ourselves mentally. It's um, definitely made it kind of seem like laziness if you take care of yourself. It's like, oh, you're not putting the effort in. I was like, yeah, I'm putting the effort in to keep myself sane. Right! Yes! Oh my god, yes. Yeah. Well, you're, you're investing in yourself. And taking care of yourself so that you can keep doing this. You're so right, like, nail on the head with the whole hustle culture. And, whoo, I felt that big time the last, um, few years in just feeling like, I need to get ahead, I need to pump out these designs for woof culture, like, if I'm not doing it, people are not gonna like me anymore, they're not gonna buy anything, I'm not gonna have income. And it's like, well, okay, pump the brakes. Like, there are other ways to, like, go about this. Facebook ads, marketing, and just giving myself the time to, like, recoup. But instead, I would get into that cycle of, I need to keep going, keep going, keep going, and I'll crash and burn at the end here, I guess, because that was all I was living myself to do. oh, that's so, you just hit the nail on the head there. And I think, Like for a lot of us, I know that some people still do work out of the house and do plenty of training, but for those of us, myself included, that work from home full time, I definitely struggle with getting out of the house. And, but what's hilarious is like, you can see my office. It's connected to my bedroom, and you walk through my office to leave and go into my bedroom. So I am constantly Like, I have to walk through my office with, like, blinders because I'm like, go! Maybe if I just check my email really quick. But you're so right of getting out of that environment where it is work mode, it is, like, brain thinking, hyper focused, like, removing ourselves from that. Even if it's like, for me, I just, I go in my backyard. I'm like, I can't be in. I need to remove myself from the equation because that's how I'm getting burnt out. it's so hard to do and it's hard when you don't have any one therapist, friend, family member otherwise kind of guiding you to say like, just remove yourself. Like, just get out of the house. It's okay. You can do that. So anyone listening go, go for a quick like 10 minute walk today. Like I've been forcing myself to do that. I'm just like, I just need to go for a quick walk. And it totally does. brain because I'm not on my phone, I'm not staring at my computer, like, so frustrating when we get stuck in that habit though. so let me see here. I will edit things, but I just want to make sure I'm looking through all the questions. so do you have any We talked a little bit about boundaries with clients a little bit in the beginning there. What specific boundaries do you have with your clients to make sure that, like, they're not crossing any lines with you and you feel good about your business? Yeah, one boundary of mine is I don't do consultations without reviewing vet history. If people can't provide that, I don't go forward with the consultation. Why is that? Interesting. Because some behavioral issues can be because of a physiological issue. Right. Uh, so things like if they've got a bladder infection and they've started soiling around the house. A simple vet check and some antibiotics. Might, yeah. Yeah, so if I, if I see, you know, like a cat that's come to me, say, for, Aggression and it's just started out of nowhere. And then I have a look and I see that the cat's had a history of arthritis. And then I'm like, okay, as your, as your cat up to date with their anti inflammatories, and they're like, Oh, actually I haven't, you know, I haven't been to the vet with him for a couple of months. And I'm like, okay, let's, let's pause on having a consult, go and get the Cinevan injection or whatever you need to do. And then see how he is after a week. And then if he's still having issues. Then, yeah, we'll meet, but sometimes it's just been a vet visit and then they haven't needed to see me, so I'd rather people get to the, you know, like, what's causing it, even if it means that it's not working with me because the animal's welfare is, you know, the most important part. and it doesn't make sense to try and just treat the problem instead of the, you know, the cause of it. Right. Um, because, yeah, the owners might not be in pain, but if the cat is, then You know, no amount of trick training and moving the litter tray is going to fix, um, a bladder infection. Right. Right. It's not going to do it. And that's, that's not my job. Um, so I, I do like to review history just to make sure that there's nothing niggling there that I'm like, Hmm. Um, and I think working in veterinary has been quite beneficial for that as cause I do look at things as well from that kind of angle. Right. Um, and I've had a few clients where I've gone, I think your cat needs to see this specialist or specialist. And it's turned out the cat's got like something like actually like significantly wrong with it. And I'm like, Oh, thank goodness. Okay. I'm so glad you went. Um, so that's one boundary that I definitely, when I first started doing that, I felt kind of like, who do you have the right to ask for this? I'm like, actually, I'm doing this for your cat's own well being like, and also. To potentially save you money because I was just gonna say, yeah, like if you leave something undiagnosed for ages and you end up at the emergency vets one night versus a simple vet consult and a blood test. Lot cheaper. So things like that. It's very important. And then, um, I sit on my calendar when I do my consults and the max amount of consults I do. So I have some people that, Oh, um, can you come tomorrow? And I'm like, well, technically I could. But no, no, so my earliest for you is in two days time, um, and then I also have with clients about, if it's at their home and if they have anyone who's sick or anything like that at the house, um, I'm immunocompromised, so I'm like, if that's an issue, like you need to tell me and we'll reschedule because I did have a client who, it. It has that all my important information for our consult thing, but she's like, Oh, um, so I got to the house and she's like, Oh yeah, my son's got COVID, but he's in his room. And I was like, um, okay, so we can go down the road to the cafe or we can reschedule. And she was a bit like, Oh, but he's not. And I was like, He's been in your house. Like, he's walking around and breathing in and out of your house. Right! So I really drive that home now with people and it might seem a bit pedantic, but I'm like I can't help them with their cats if I'm, you know, on a ventilator or something. So, things like that, and then just with time, if clients, if I let them know, you know, we've got 10 minutes left of our session, and they're like, okay, and if they want to discuss more, then I charge them for additional time. and I let them know. I say, like I am, I'm happy to discuss with you more. I've got another half an hour available of time I can spend with you. But that's gonna be, um, I'll have to invoice $50 for Yeah, this half an hour or you know, what, whatever it, whatever the charge is. So I find some people actually don't have any more questions or concerns. They kind of just wanna talk about their cat and ramble a little. Yeah. They're like no one else. Has validated these, my worries or my struggles and you're here. So I think, yeah, you've become almost like a sounding board for that sort of thing. So pointing out that our time is, you know, coming to an end, but you're like a therapist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm happy to keep discussing this with you, but I'm not doing it for free. because it eats into the time. That I could spend serving other clients. So yeah, so things like that, just basically things that I learned the hard way, really just my boundaries are things that I learned through. Oh. I've done this to myself. I'm like, ah. I have control over this. Wait. Ooh, that's on me. Okay. How do I do that? Um, so with setting the boundaries, how has the imposter syndrome been with that? And just feeling like I don't deserve to have these boundaries or, you know, not feeling like you're on that professional level. I think it's been bitter. Oh, you good? It just froze. Are you fine now? Yeah, what did you say before? Sorry. Oh, no, I was just saying that, it's fine, I'll edit all this. Um, I was just saying, like, not feeling if you deserve to instill these boundaries or like you're on the same level of certain people. I know the imposter syndrome creeps in there and tells us we don't deserve that. Um, so how has that been? Has that been challenging for you? It's not as hard now. I still have cases where I'm like, what am I doing? Especially ones where there's, you know, three cats involved or, you know, there's a cat that's had issues for 10 years and they're now getting help. And I think it's just putting things into perspective imposter syndrome because when they look at things while I'm in the middle of it or, you know, deep in it, It can seem quite like, Oh my goodness, like I, I, I don't know if what I've advised is going to be enough or what about this person who's been doing this for 20 years and then I'm like, well, they came to you, they chose to come to you, um, you have, you know, all these good reviews and testimonials, you've done similar cases before and it's been good. Um, you've let them know very clearly about expectations for the cats and you know that what you're doing is. The right thing to do and it's what you would do if they were your cats. That's what I often say to people as I say, if your cats were my cats and I was dealing with this problem, this is what I would do. And that it not only puts them at ease, but it also does for me because I'm like, I'm not telling people to do things that I wouldn't do, which is really important just for peace of mind as well. Right. And I'm sure they, they just appreciate that personal touch of like, okay, they actually care. They're invested in me and my cat. Oh God, we've touched on so many good points. so how, how do I want to word this? for anyone that is, you know, considering getting into cat behavior, starting their own business, maybe they're just like thinking about it, but they're like, is that a real career? Can I do that? What advice do you have for them if they're just debating that right now? I'd say go for it. Cats need all the help they can get, and their owners need all the help they can get. Oh yeah. Um, I'd look at the why you want to get into it. I find that's the biggest thing, because if you're getting into it for, um, a relaxing alternative to, you know, a job you've got right now, or you're like, I want to get into this because I love spending time with cats. It's not that. It's not that at all. Um, I do see cats. But I spend most of my time with owners, like most of my work is with owners. So I think thinking about, is that something you want to do? Is your passion for helping cats and their owners enough to be like, okay, I'm happy to be working with owners for most of the time. Making a career out of it. Making a career out of helping people to help their cats. I think is kind of the thing. It's not really. Helping cats and helping their owners, you're helping the owners do it because they're the ones doing all the work when you leave or when you sign off. so just looking at that and then looking at, I guess, what local or online educational services are available for you that you can have the time for and that you can afford. because like here in New Zealand, we don't even have a behavior degree here. We don't have that, so you have to go overseas for animal behavior training of, any sort of, I guess, academic level aside from dog training. So for cats, you need to go overseas. So I studied online overseas and all my studying has been done overseas online. I haven't had anything here. Um, so look at what's available to you because if you're someone who Works best in a classroom, a physical classroom. You'd need to look at, is that something available where I live or what I need to move or, you know, think about how can I make online learning work for me? That kind of thing. luckily I'm one of those people that I can do online learning. Um, I'm fine, but I know some people who just can't, they just don't ever, it's very hard for me. Yeah. Yeah. Like they're like, I can't sit there and be like, I'm going to work on this assignment today, but there's no one telling me to work on it. Yeah. So it really depends on how you learn, as well, because it is one of those fields where it's still becoming visible on the social scope, like job training and behavior is very like. You know, people know about it, people recognize it, cats, not so much. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Lily Chen's, like, cat body language book just came out and it's like, oh, could we have had this, like, X amount of years ago? I know, I know. But it's good, it's refreshing that people are catching up, but I'm, I'm with you, like, I can't imagine. But choosing to have a business where you are, you're mostly having to convince people that like, no, I, I'm right. I know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely a skill as well. Being, um, being confident in your ability, um, and I think that just comes with experience and time. and just. Yeah. Having feedback from owners that you have made their cat's lives and their lives better goes a long way. That must feel so good. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. I love it. It's always good to remind myself whenever I'm like, Oh, and I feel like iffy about a case or someone's gone, Oh, you're too expensive or, Oh, like I, I've done this with my cats for years and we've been fine. And then I'm like, Oh, okay. Why are you hiring me? Yeah. And then I like, look at like my feedback from clients. Oh, actually, okay. I'm not, I'm not the worst. Yes. Anytime you feel that way, go and read testimonials. I do that for myself. Yeah. Wait, people actually do love me and I'm good at what I do. Yeah. Yeah. You need that like outside like this and be like, you did a good job. And I'm like, oh, okay. Okay. That's good. Thank you. Thank you. I need that external validation. Yeah, exactly. And like that works for me. It might not work for some people. Some people can be like, Oh, I did a good job and that's it. But for me personally, I need to know from someone else. Yeah. Like I could, I could write something and it's brilliant, but my brain is like, no, you wrote it. It's terrible. So, so I need someone else to tell me. Oh, well, I think this is an awesome way to end the episode. Um, thank you so much for coming on and talking with me and sharing your experience. I already know that people are gonna, they're gonna love this. So, thank you so much. You're welcome. It's been so much fun. And if you like what we're doing here on the Leashed Mind podcast and you want to help others find us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on social media, give us a rating wherever you got your podcasts, um, either that's leaving a review on Apple or giving us a star rating on Spotify, or just leaving a little R plus on our Facebook page. It's all appreciated. Thank you. And we will be back with another episode. Thank you.