Motherhood, Mental Health, and Shelter Work w/Tressa Fessenden-McKenzie

In Episode 10 of Season 2, your host Mandy Boutelle engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Tressa Fessenden-McKenzie, a seasoned professional in the dog training and shelter world.

As Tressa shares her journey, listeners are taken through her transformation from a Petco trainer to her pivotal role as the former Behavior and Training Manager at East Bay SPCA in Oakland, California. After we recorded this episode during summer of 2023 Tressa moved onto helping more dogs and is now the Director of Operations for Animal Programs at the Humane Society of Sonoma County! 

This episode delves into Tressa's personal and professional evolution, highlighting the challenges she faced while balancing her career with motherhood, particularly during the latter stages of her pregnancy.

The episode also explores the complexities of mental health in the realm of animal care and shelter work. Tressa opens up about the intricacies of managing a career in dog training alongside the demanding responsibilities of shelter work. She discusses the transition from running a private training business to focusing exclusively on shelter work, a decision that many in the field grapple with.

This narrative provides invaluable insights into the importance of creating a supportive work environment, not just for oneself but also for shelter staff, emphasizing the role of mental health in ensuring both personal well-being and professional efficacy. This compelling episode offers a unique perspective on the intersecting paths of animal care, entrepreneurship, and personal life, making it a must-listen for anyone involved in or interested in the world of animal behavior and welfare.
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Transcript

0:07

Welcome back to the Leashed Mind Podcast. I'm your host, Mandy Boutelle. On today's episode, I have a conversation with Tressa Fessenden McKenzie. We delve into the complexities of balancing a personal life and a professional career in the dog training and in the shelter world. Tressa, who at the time when we recorded this was at the tail end of her pregnancy, she has since had her very healthy baby and has been recouping at home. shares her experience of managing a career in dog training and working with shelters while navigating the challenges of motherhood. She reflects on her evolution of her career from starting as a pet co trainer to becoming the behavior and training manager at East Bay SPCA in Oakland, California. And her decision to move away from private training to focus on shelter work, Tressa opens up about the mental health aspects of her journey, including the struggles of entrepreneurship and the importance of creating a supportive work environment with her shelter staff. The conversation also touches on topics like the relationship between mental health and work. The significance of creating community among dog trainers and the importance of understanding shelter policies. We kind of just really talk about Tressa's journey from how she started as a pet co trainer, how she then had her training business before. She even got into shelter work and then how she started working in the shelter work and decided to Put her training business on the back burner for a bit while she focuses on the shelter work Which I feel like a lot of people and I don't think this is a bad thing I just noticed that a lot of people will try to balance maintaining their personal training business while then trying to Find balance for shelter work, which if we have all listened to Ashley Devine's episode , we know how intense shelter work can be. So my hat, I tip my hat to all of those of you that are doing that balance. and dance because that is a lot. So it's interesting to hear this perspective of just honing in on the shelter work and putting the personal business on the back burner, but also taking what Tressa learned from having her business and how she has put that and apply that to being the behavior and training manager at a shelter and how she works to prioritize mental health, not only for herself in her role, but also for her staff so that they are. still continuing to grow, enjoy, and really love what they are doing, especially in shelter work, because I know that the burnout is really having in that. So let's get into the episode. Tressa, I am so excited to have you on the podcast. Um, first, we really need to acknowledge that you were doing this and you only have a few weeks left of your pregnancy. So you were already a superhero just even sitting down and talking to me this long. I'm very, very grateful to have you on. Well, I'm very excited to be here and, uh, as we were kind of chatting about beforehand, I'm sort of still doing all the things while being this pregnant, so it's just par for the course right now. Well, and this isn't your first time even navigating this. This is your second pregnancy. So I do want to talk about a little bit of you being entrepreneur and navigating your first pregnancy because I'm sure that was just a whoo in itself. Yes. Yeah, my first pregnancy, I was working at a shelter and running my own business, and so this, this time I get to just work at a shelter and be pregnant. So it's certainly One less juggle. Yeah. Yeah. Although, then you have to add in that I have a child already. Right. Exactly. And just living in the Bay Area is stressful enough. so for those that may not know you, can you give us a little bit of an intro of just kind of where you got started in your training journey and then circle us back to how you got to where you are now working at the East Bay SPCA in. Is, is it in Oakland? I always never know what territory it is. It's East Oakland, right? Yes, we're in Oakland and we're in Dublin, which is kind of confusing because they're not very close to each other. So I'm currently in Oakland and I'm mostly based in Oakland, but my role and my department spans both campuses. Whew, God. So I get to hang out in Dublin every other week. Oh my gosh. Okay, again, you were a superhero. but yeah. I can do a little intro. Um, so my name is Tressa. Um, let's see, I Went to college for not dogs as many of us started out in a totally different realm But decided that I wanted to figure out how I could get paid to hang out with dogs So I started out like teaching in a pet co Yeah, I was really broke and I was like I need to I wanted to do KPA but I didn't have any money So I need to find someone who would at least show me how to use a clicker And would pay me for a little while. so I started out on Petco and then I went through KPA, CTP program, which was obviously incredible. and I was living in Los Angeles at the time but moved back to my hometown, which is in Northern California. and so I started my own business in, based out of Santa Rosa, California. And I was doing, doggie daycare slash training at the time, so private training and then like day training at my little farm based daycare. So that was a lot of fun. it was also working like 12 plus hour days outdoors, which is probably why I had skin cancer cut out of my forehead recently. Right. Oh Yeah, so while I was doing that, I ended up getting into the sheltering world by, just being like an independent contractor trainer teaching group classes through the shelter. What year did that start? Oh man, that would have been 20 Either 16 or 17? Okay, yeah, that's like when all of us got started, I feel like. Yeah, it's been a minute. It's hard to remember. But yeah, so I was working at the Humane Society of Sonoma County teaching group classes. And then a part time role opened up in the behavior department. I think I was the enrichment something. I can't remember what my title was, but it was enrichment related. so that was really fun. And I got my foot into the shelter door. So I was doing like part time shelter work, still running my business. And, um. Yeah, juggling all the things, doing private training in people's homes and still doing daycare, stuff like that, and then, then we ended up moving. So the Tubbs fire happened in 2017, so I lost my home and all of my things. at the time my husband and I were trying to build a tiny home on my grandma's property. That was our plan for how we would like stay in Sonoma County. And that burned to a crisp. So we moved to Sacramento, which is cheaper. My hometown. Yeah, which is how you and I are connected. It's funny, we've kind of like circled each other in different, ending up in similar places, but never at the same time. Right. So I worked at the Sacramento SPCA, in, Various roles in the behavior department there. and that's kind of when I was like, oh, I think I actually Just want to be in the shelter world at the time. I was still brought my business with me to Sacramento. So I was still doing Private training as well as working in the shelter full time and That was a lot, but it was, it was a good learning opportunity. And I was, as I mentioned, I was pregnant at the time. So it was very early in my, my first pregnancy when I moved out to SAC and started that job. So, I did all of those things at the same time, which was a lot. And then, ultimately had the opportunity to take this job. So, and I'm currently the behavior and training manager here at East. East Bay SPCA, um, I know, um, this was a really exciting opportunity for my family and, um, is a little bit closer to home for me, which is nice with kiddos. Um, my mom is a superstar and comes and watches my son, a couple of days a week, even though she lives in Santa Rosa. So being closer to family was a really big part of that kind of decision to come out here. And that's where I am now. I decided to part from the private training world to just focus on this role. Cause as you mentioned, it's a pretty, we do a lot here and the department is a lot. So it's plenty for me to, to work with. Especially from going to two locations, like shuffling just that little bit back and forth. And then like having a toddler and then having like your own animals you need to care for. Like, I can't even imagine trying to navigate like. Running a own business and dealing with clients after that you would be like on the floor in the fetal position and no one would blame you because that would be so much. Yeah, exactly. It's way too much. So I feel like I have plenty on my plate right now. My home, my home life is my three and a half year old, two dogs and a cat and my husband. We have a full house. It's about to get fuller, but at least, you know, you are closer to home in this aspect and you're closer to family. and like less pressure of not having your own business because we talked a little bit before we hit record, but having your own business, being an entrepreneur, it's So fucking much on the mental health and trying to still take care of yourself in the process of already being a mom and not finding time for yourself as it is, but then trying to do that with the business. It's like. I couldn't. so my question is like with everything you just mentioned, how was navigating your mental health in that process of, you know, deciding like, okay, I want to go in the shelter realm. And now I'm going to let go of this business that I worked hard to create because I know it's hard letting go of that. Yeah, it's really, it was, it was a lot. And I think that what really led me to that was just feeling like, It's just stretched really thin. Like, I couldn't give anything my all. Um, and so, I feel like there's, there's so much need for all of us dog professionals out there that, like, I was just getting pulled in many directions and I couldn't. Meet the needs of, like, everybody who wanted me to do more things with them. including my, you know, not even mentioning, like, also my family. Also myself, like, myself being, again, the very bottom. I think any of us who are moms, like, we tend to put ourselves on the bottom of our own list. And then any of us who are business owners also tend to put ourselves at the bottom of the list. Cause, so when you have both of those things combined, It's easy to feel pretty low down there on, like, who is getting attention. so, navigating mental health through all of those decisions, um, there's so much, so much that went into those, those decision making processes, but, I think that finding a place where I Really feel supported by my team was a really big priority for me because the the work that you do in a shelter is already so emotional and, you know, all of us who come into this world are really passionate about it and care a lot. and so having folks that can kind of like share that with you and that you feel really safe and comfortable to feel whatever you're feeling as you're navigating like really big decisions like life or death. You know, really? Yeah, literally happening all the time. but having that space of like a really trusted group of people who are all going through the same things and understand and that you can really lean on. that was really huge for me and this organization. having a rare Yeah, yeah. A lot of shelters can be like very, you know, departments can be really isolated and really separate, um, and what I am really loving here is that we have just such a good cohesion and communication between different departments, between line staff and management teams. There's a lot of like, openness, there's a lot of transparency and trust. That's good, that's so awesome. Huge for me. Yeah, it is really rare. Really, you're not gonna like where you work if you have like, a clusterfuck of drama and emotions going around and no one can regulate themselves, so I'm sure that's like, why you're still working where you're working, because you are able to enjoy it. Yeah, and like, But in having people who share your fucked up, dark sense of humor, and so, As most dog trainers? Yeah, yeah. You can get, you know, you can get a little dark in our office, but that's because, like, it's a coping skill, and so, It's something that we value, like, silliness and dark humor is just, like, so, It's a good way to move through all the like emotional turmoil and behavior crap you have to handle in a shelter. And I don't even have shelter experience, but I know that you guys deal with a lot, especially in the behavior department. I'm sure that's just. It's a lot to take on, especially in Oakland, where I'm sure there are so many dogs that are strays and getting rehomed. I mean, anywhere really, but I know because I lived in San Francisco and the Bay Area, so I know it's a lot. so when you decided to just say, okay, I'm not going to do my business anymore. What steps did you take to. have peace with ending that chapter, but also feeling like I don't want to say guilt, but just kind of not feeling like, Oh, I failed because I wasn't a business owner. Cause I'm sure it's. That little tiny spark is all it takes for you to really get down that loophole. Yeah, I mean, I think the fact that that coincided with a move was helpful because it's like, Oh, sure. For, you know, I mean, you, I'm sure know having moved and having clients at different places. Like, it's kind of like breaking up with people when you have a long term client. It is. Yeah. And you have to be like, Oh, I can't do these things for you anymore. Like, I really value you and it's not you, it's me. So not being pulled by like, You know, just knowing myself, I could totally see if I had tried to like, let go of the business, but stayed in the area. I'd be like, well, I'm not going to run my business, but I'll still go hang out with your dog because like I've known them for so long or I'll still do this or that for you. I mean, when people know what you do and they know you work with dogs, you just, you know, this, you get pulled in a million different directions. They're your dentist wants help. The gardener help like anybody that has. I've heard a whiff of the fact that you do stuff with dogs once help, and it's really hard to say no to people who are struggling and in, you know, this climate where like, we don't have regulations. So if they, if you don't help them, then you always have that like nagging, like, oh my gosh, but what if X, Y, and Z? And we love to help. That's why we get into it too. Exactly. So yeah, just letting go of that by being like, I'm physically not there. So I actually can't do those things for you. And then sack is really cool, because all of the positive reinforcement based force free Lima II trainers are really connected out there. And so I felt like I was able to, like, step back and give people a lot of really good referrals. Yeah, like, still to this day, when people ask me, like, Oh, you know, what's good in SAC? I'm a part of a Facebook group that, like, I'm not super active in, but, you know, you can kind of look, keep an eyeball out at, they have, like, a spreadsheet, because they're super organized and badass, of, like, trainers in the area, who offers what services, what their niches are. gosh, I feel like every city should have a version of this, where people can, like, Really? Yeah, so so there was some really cool folks out there that like I may have never even met personally But I've you know seen a lot of their posts and seen how they communicate with people and seeing some of the work they do And I'm like, oh, I think there's someone so who does, you know, dog and baby stuff or and you can feel That you're safely passing your clients on to someone who is going to take care of them that is such an undertaking of its own because I feel like We develop these personal relationships with clients. We care about them. We care about their family, their dogs. And then it's like, and I have to give you to someone else that I don't really know. And so I, God, Facebook groups. What did we do before Facebook groups? Because I feel like a lot of the times we didn't have anyone to refer to. Like, that makes me really happy that the SAC trainers and professionals have that because I feel like when I was a trainer that didn't exist in Sacramento and the one in San Francisco was not that organized. Yeah, there's a big need for more of that and I think, you know, all of us are Spread so thin that like who's gonna do it? Who's gonna take it on? Yeah, but here at East Bay, um, one of my Employees has started a like community connections group that like meets in person so we've been trying to kind of get something similar off the ground here and doing kind of like meetups and hangouts where people Can just sort of casually get to know each other and you can kind of like get a feel for who else is working in your community Because you know, we we offer private training services here but We also do a million other things, so our wait lists get really long, and people are always looking for specialty stuff, and sub bank stuff, and you know, whatever, so if we can grow that network of resources, there's plenty for everybody to share, um, we don't need to resource guard our, our clients, we can That's so true, and I feel like that's something I try to really touch on with this podcast is how important community is and how it's, I feel like we really need to throw away the Like, these are my clients, I want to work with these people, I need all the clients, I'm the better trainer. When it's like, there's so many other fucking trainers out there that may niche down more than you, that may cover certain areas than you, it just, it really helps to have a network, even if you don't utilize it all the time, it really freaking helps. Um, And it's so cool when you, you meet someone like, oh, I've worked with so and so and so and so, Oh, cool, you have a great foundation, like now we can do way cool stuff instead of kind of like, you know, feeling out where they even are and what their philosophy is and how they approach things. You're like, okay, you have a baseline. I know you've worked with this person. That's great. Let's go. And it's like also having people that you can commiserate with and it like have lived the same experience as you because it's hard finding dog friends that get that. And I feel like that's all I've done since I've moved to Oregon. I'm like, Slowly picking out trainers that I know near me and I'm like, do you want to come over for a barbecue? Because like I only want dog people in my life. They're the only people that get what I've gone through and I have to say it's super weird being a mom and trying to find mom friends but like also being a dog nerd because like Like, I was gonna go on a long, regular day with somebody who was taking their dog on a walk and I was texting some of my work friends. I mean, like, this is so scary. Like, what if I have to break up with her as a friend if her dog handling is really egregious? Like, I don't know. What if she shows up with a prong collar? Yeah, I'm like, oh, luckily her dog was on a harness, like, so we can still be friends. It's fine. but like, I, I do not Go into the mom's fear giving dog advice cuz oh you can't you can't do that, right? but like then it makes it really hard to pick who you want to be around and I'm somebody who has two dogs who are like not super appropriate to have around a lot of other unknown children So trying to give people like A spiel about like, hey, like, yeah, this is why I'm not gonna bring my dog on this dog walk with you. Or like, if I have my toddler, I'm probably not gonna be managing my dogs too, because those are separate things. And like, just being, it's, it can be really weird because people May have no concept for like, why I would do that, or what I'm talking about, or Or it opens up the realm of, oh, okay, well then can you do training with my dog? And you're like, fuck! That's not what I want to do right now. No, we'll get you in. Yeah. and then the other big thing is like dog and kid interactions and like how people navigate those things and again like not trying to be judgy and weird but also having like really, you know, in my house we have really strict consent based rules and like ways that we interact and ways that we don't interact, and you would not believe how many dog owners will like brandish their uncomfortable dog at your child when you're actively trying to To not touch the dog. It's crazy. So like just walking through the world and being like, oh no, like we're not gonna touch your dog.'cause they're terrified and people think like I'm. They're wagging, what? Yeah, it's fine. Why would you not touch this terrified dog? It's not going to bite your kid. And I'm like, meh. Thank you. I'm sure that makes it so hard navigating the, like, mom friend world, because you're just like, mmm, you're parenting your child really great, but not the dog. Yeah. Or sometimes not, too. Vice versa. Right. Exactly. And you're like, And we bring the R plus into the, into the parenting world. And what does that look like? Speaking of babies and dogs, since that is kind of your thing and something that you really honed in on when you did have your training business, that was kind of your main niche, right? Babies and dogs? Yeah. So how, just choosing to navigate down that road, did you choose that before you got pregnant or was that something like, I want to hear a little bit more about that and how you decided to niche into that? Yeah, so like I kind of alluded to, um, so my dogs Muchi is like a former Tijuana street boy who has big feelings about, uh, What a perfect name! It fits him, it fits him. so he, he's kind of a stranger danger y guy, and he's dog reactive, um, He just, he has a lot of feelings. And then, uh, my husky, Koa, she is like a much more confident dog, but she has a lot of, like, boundaries around her personal space. She can be resource guardy with certain things. and so, I'd been working with dogs for a while, when I decided, like, Oh, I think I want to have children, and so my next question was, like, how am I going to do this? Yeah, like, what is the pathway forward for this to be safe and enjoyable for every member of my family? So that's when I got into, I decided to go through Family Paws. And, uh, become a Family Paws, licensed parent educator. And so I did that before I got pregnant because I just really wanted to, like, absorb everything and learn a lot about it before I walked the walk. I loved watching, like, all your Instagram posts while you were, like, preparing. I remember, like, long before you had Is your son's name Wiley, right? Wiley, yeah. Yes, long before you even had him. I remember all the prep work you did and just being like, Oh my gosh, that's so amazing she's doing all that. That sounds so daunting, executing all that. Because I'm sure your brain was just like, thinking of all the factors and all the training plans you had to prepare. On top of preparing for a baby. I'm sure that was a lot. Yeah, and I also had a home birth. So, um, like, Oh, right. Figuring out, you know, All the, like, we were leaving a few weeks ago and have the baby and then bringing the baby back into the home. It was like, I have midwives coming into my home and I'm going to, like, have a It's a foot traffic. In my house, foot traffic, how am I going to navigate, all that. So, there was a ton to learn and, like, I highly recommend that program for anyone who is either thinking about starting a family, or just, many of us dog professionals are not comfortable with children. I know, like My entire team here. They're so funny. Like we have so much fun with this pregnancy because they just know nothing about it. And like, it just trips them out. They're just like, what? Everything is crazy to me. So it's a great tool for people who are like, maybe don't want to have kids at all. But you have clients who ask you questions about stuff because it's a totally different world. so yeah, that ended up becoming a niche that I took on just because I did it. But it was a good, I mean, it turned into like a good life skill, good skill to have because it makes you more well rounded trainer. You know how to approach kids because I feel like a lot of the times we get into houses and then we're like, Oh, you guys have little humans. And now we need to factor them into the training plan. And I've got, I've heard from so many parents. that have tried to navigate dog training, getting dog training advice. And a lot of trainers who don't know much about child development will go straight to like, we'll tell your kids not to X, Y, and Z, or like, make sure your kids don't blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, is it developmentally appropriate to tell a two year old not to touch the dog? Is that going to have been hap No, what are their mechanics like at that stage? Yeah, like what management do we need not only for the dog, but also for the kid so that everyone can be successful. And, you know, thinking about the child experience too. I mean, it's really easy for those of us that work in the dog world to think, Oh gosh, how stressful for the dog. The one lens. Yeah. Yeah. But. I mean, how stressful for a kid to live in a home where they don't feel safe, or where they can't move freely, or they don't have clear guidelines for how to stay safe around, um, a dog. And just getting told no repeatedly. It's like, well, okay, what do you want me to do instead, mom? Exactly, right? Like, what alternative behaviors can we put in place? Like, just like we do with a dog. Can we teach them Some skills that will help them in the future, those things are huge. And I love also being able to take that into a shelter because in a shelter environment, we have tons of families who are looking to add, a dog to that family. And so, you know, talking to staff here about like, what kinds of restrictions do we play, put in place versus how do we approach education and like. You know, it's so hard to look at an age and say this is the appropriate age because every family has a different capacity for appropriate management, like, you know, and and all Children are so different that my Three and a half year old, I think is, you know, more savvy about reading body language than many adults at this age. But, not every family has those tools, so it's a fun line to kind of play around with and then it's really nice to have those resources for people who are like, Oh, how do we set this up? Or how do we bring this dog home and make sure that everyone's doing as best as they can? Yeah, have you noticed a lot of like overlap between? The two of just you really tapping into your skill set from your business bleeding into like, just adopting out and figuring out behavior plans and what's going to work for everyone. Are you tapping into that side of your brain a lot doing this? Totally. Yes. And it's such a different version because the amount of time I have with somebody could be so limited compared to how much time I would have with the client. and like what kind of information they're looking for might be different, you know, so kind of, relearning how to tailor things in a really like quick digestible way and figuring out how, like what is the most synthesized versions that I can give to somebody that can be effective. Yeah, exactly. Because like people that come into a shelter and are adopting an animal, like they're just excited. They're getting a lot of info. They're getting vaccine info. They're getting, you know, spay neutering, like they're just getting so much. that, like, I have to be really mindful about how I'm packaging behavior info so that, A, it's accessible, B, it's effective, and C, they know that they can call me when they get home and they're like, wait, whaaat? What did she say? So, yeah, there's a overlap and a difference there. Do you, like, with that and being able to provide that information, do you have a lot of people really reaching out and being like, look, I actually do really need more information on this, I do need help with this? I'd say it's mixed. I, I wish people did more reach out. but like I said, I think people go info blind after a while. So sometimes, you know, sometimes you get those returns where like, Oh man, I wish she called me a month ago. I could really help you with this. Um, but then there's plenty of people that reach out and do the post adopt training stuff that we offer and, use our helpline and that we're able to support. So it's a mixed bag because humans are. Humans. Widely buried. You never know what you're going to get, but. But yeah, we try for our behavior cases as well. We do try and reach out individually and just check in on them and be like, Hey, how's it going? What can we do for you? That's awesome. Please don't return this dog. We don't want to have to go through this again. With all that, do you ever see yourself starting your own business again, or are you just kind of like, I'm gonna write out this and see how, see where it takes me for now? Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, I just, I love my team here. I just love getting to come to work in a place where I can chat with people and, We have that camaraderie and friendship piece. Yeah. So, I mean, if all these guys quit, then maybe we'll talk later. Nobody quit. No one at East Bay SBCA quit. Yeah. If you're listening to this team, I love you. Don't go anywhere. I don't know. I'm, I'm actually so, uh, it's so bittersweet to go on maternity leave because Oh, I'm sure. I feel like you're, like, leaving your so yeah, I think I'm, I'm in the shelter world for at least a while. This is definitely, uh, where I want to be for, for the foreseeable future. and who knows what the future will hold, but right now I really like. I like the variety that it has to offer as well, you know, just getting to, my, my department does both internal shelter behavior work, so working with the animals in our care, as well as the external stuff, so we still get to teach classes, do private training, and, create webinars and create cool content for people, and, One of our as you know, mission driven organization, we get to do training that is really cost effective. So if you look at the cost of doing stuff with us as opposed to other places, other privately owned businesses, right? Are just way more accessible because that's what one of our mission is, is to to provide services. People keep animals in their homes. that's something that's really nice when you're not having to, the money that you're making for training isn't going directly into your bills. you can like, am I going to make it this month? Um, then you can think about like, how can I just like serve the community and make cool stuff that will help people. and that, that piece is really. Rewarding too. Oh, I'm sure because I mean, you're part of the community too. So you're just, it's kind of just paying it forward and cycling itself back in and you're seeing people be successful with their pets. with all that, I know I say that a lot, but, with just that entire experience. How has it been switching over from going full time into the shelter and really, you know, this is about mental health, so working to prioritize your mental health, because I know shelter life is chaotic and very unpredictable and emotionally taxing. So what steps do you have in place to really prioritize your mental well being so that you still enjoy what you're doing? Aside from having awesome staff? Yeah, I mean, awesome team is huge. Um, also Taking time away. Hey. Uh, yeah. Like, I mean, I know it sounds obvious, but like, But we all need to hear it. Yeah. Step away. Step away. I, it's so easy to, we all get into this because we care. And you could sit here and spend 12 hours a day, you know, with your eyes waiting in front of your computer, just trying to get those last few things done. And that's something where I actually think. Having a family and being a mother has actually been a big benefit for me because I am somebody who When I get involved in a project It's really easy for me to just get absorbed with it and feel like I can't step away from it But I have other priorities so I have to go pick my kid up from daycare It needs to happen So I have to step away from my computer and walk away and go and take care of my family and make dinner and do all those other things And I think we should, whether or not we have kids, we should all be able to do that. Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, so, I think, like I said, working for an organization that takes that seriously is huge. You know, my boss will be like, what are you doing? Go home. Get out of here. You know, and if I'm ever working away, she's like, get out. Leave. Go home. I'll do something else, please. You're like, I don't live here? Oh, okay. Yeah, I should go to my house, I guess. And I think that would be more of a problem if I didn't have a kid who needs me and I have to go do those things. So, yeah, stepping away, making time for things that are not animals, and taking that time for yourself. It's huge and making sure that you're surrounding yourself with people who value that as well because It's not a I can work harder than you. I can pour myself into this harder than you Like that culture can get really toxic of like if we don't XY and Z we're not doing enough or we're not saving enough lives That's sort of like save them all mentality at whatever cost that can just burn you out so fast. Um, instead of being able to like, look at like, we are human beings who have finite resources. We're gonna do absolutely everything we can and then we're gonna walk away and go home. That's so healthy of you to say! I love when guests like, say stuff like this because I'm like, yes! Did everyone hear that? Like, we need to do that. so speaking of doing non dog activities, do you have any in particular that, like, that's just your go to, it fills your cup, makes you feel good? I mean, I know our dogs do that, but Yeah, just laying on the floor, like, just spooning my dog. Absolutely. Yes, I do it every day after work. Right? Just like putting your face into your dog's fluff and being like, yes, you are normal and regular. It's healing. Yes. You don't smell like your own pee. Good job. Yeah, I would say that's my go to. And then like I said, just like motherhood is a totally different part of my brain. So getting to go home and be like, let's read stories. We're, uh, you know, let's go water the garden. Let's go make mud pies, whatever we're doing. Go be a kid. Exactly. Go run around the playground. Super fun. Um, my kid is really good at, like, shaking me out of my own head. Oh, I love that. You know, being able to just be really imaginative and in the moment, and totally silly all the time. So, I'm very grateful to him for that. Well, and then I still have to remember to also step away from motherhood. I'd be like, oh. Right. I'm a human. Go get a massage or something. So, are you finding it, it's When you have that outlet, is it a little easier for you to turn the work brain off? Or are you still kind of in the background like, Oh, I didn't do that one email. I didn't get that file sent. When I'm not at work, I'm really not at work. That's so awesome. I mean, I have, I have a work phone. My team has my number. But we all, we have a group chat that is like mostly us just being goofy or being like, look at this cute moment from Play Group. Everybody is really good unless it's an actual emergency, and no one's gonna hit me up when I'm off, uh, when I'm off work. so, like I said, not all organizations operate that way, but that culturally is really important here, and, I I find myself, like, at the end of my weekend, so tired from being a mom and so excited to go back to work and turn, like, my mom brain off and turn my work brain on, and then I find myself at the end of my work week being, like, so tired of being here and so excited to turn my dog brain off, or dog and cat, and go home, so. I think , they help like offset. It's, it's a good feeling. Like it feels like a good balance to be able to just like, Nope. Put that away and come be this person. Nope. Put that away and then go be that other person. So That's so awesome. I love that you have that. That's so like, I wanna go work at that East Bay, SVCA. Everyone sounds awesome over there. Like what the heck? I will say not always, right? Like, I'm not like, I never am thinking about stuff. There are hard times, like, Oh, of course. And right now, it's kitten season, so like, we're all totally trigger stacked, and we're stacked to the gills with weird cats, and you know, ringworm, and all sorts of fun and exciting adventures, but yeah, being able to like, not re I don't check my email when I'm not at work. Do you have your work email on your phone? Not on my personal phone. I have Tressa, the regular human phone, and Tressa, the working human phone. Oh, I love that. That's so good. The two, as much as possible, do not touch. Ah, that's so good. I know, for someone that works in a shelter, you seem very like Serene, and like, calm, and like, you love your job, whereas like, as much as people love shoulder work, I feel like this is not the demeanor they usually have. Usually a lot more stress. Yeah, I mean, stress is very real, but, like, sometimes at work we'll just say, like, let's take the last ten minutes of our day and go just color with chalk. I love that. You guys need decompression time. Yeah, so we do decompression for humans as well. It's very important. Good. That's so awesome. Yeah, it's huge. So for anyone that is either debating starting, well, okay, let's break this into two parts. Anyone that is debating starting a new business right now, what advice do you have for them? Debating starting a new business, I would say, create a workspace for yourself that is separate from some of your living space. Because that was one thing I really struggle with is just feeling like everywhere that I was, was my work. And so it was really hard to turn that brain off and be able to be like, I am now entering relaxation zone. I don't know what that's like. That exists? That's an option? Yeah, I didn't, I wasn't good at it either, which is why I'm not, but I think that would have made a difference for me because I struggle with feeling like when I wasn't working that I was. Not being productive enough, right? So the switchover has shown me that like being able to drive out of the building and now be in my home is a big difference for my brain so people are able to like set up a workspace or like whether that's an office or just like I don't know, a room or a coffee shop when you work, or you go to a shared cooperative work space. I don't know, there's lots of options, but find that delineation, and or if you are someone who operates really well with like scheduling, just, you know, schedule, put it on your calendar to do things that are not work, off times. so that's, that's something that I would say. And, you know, be upfront with your clients about what, like, what your expectations are, too. So, like, I'm only available during X, Y, and Z times. Yeah. Because people will, they'll get ya. They will milk ya and try to guilt ya as much as they can. Yeah. And they don't even mean to, right? No! They're like the most well meaning people. They're just like, you're available, you're good at things. So with that, what about anyone that is, you know, they really love the shelter atmosphere. Maybe they volunteered and they're just maybe debating getting their toes into it more and really making it a career. What advice do you have for those listeners? The first thing I would say is, before joining an organization, see what you can find out about their euthanasia policies and how the decision making happens. Can you explain that a little? Yeah, I think some organizations are more transparent than others. And I know for a lot of folks, it can be really alarming if they're not prepared for what that looks like. So if you are going to work one day, hanging out with a critter, coming back a couple days later, and they're gone, and you don't feel like you have the, Like the understanding of what that process looked like or the ability to seek information about that. I think that's one of the Quickest ways that people burn out. So if you are going to work somewhere, It's really helpful to understand the inner workings of like what is considered adoptable for this organization? What is the adoptability criteria like who makes those decisions? How are they discussed? How is that information shared? And, again, something that I value about being able to work here, is that that's something that anyone who works in the animal care team, I have them come and sit down with me for a couple minutes before they start, if they're hired, they're new, and I lay it all out, and I say, this is like, these are the things that we try, these are the things that we consider adoptable, this is where we can put them in, this is how we share that, these are the, you know, This is how those choices are made. and we have a, a procedure. So if there's somebody that you're really invested in, if you want to be notified, you can, you can request that through a contact before you sign up. so there are like, Oh, that's huge. ways for people to either opt in or opt out of being notified for certain decisions. Oh, wow. I think just like having that understanding, that's also something we talk about with our volunteers a lot, is like, even if you're not working with behavior cases, you are in this environment and animals sometimes don't make it out. So, expect knowing how that happens can just help you decide if you're comfortable or not. and mentally preparing and just knowing that's an option. Yeah, exactly. So I think that that's something, people should just be aware of and should kind of look at because it varies from organization to organization, how the choices are made, what kind of information is available here. If you hear that someone is going to be euthanized, I mean, We have a daily meeting where we give updates, but if you wanted, like, to go look at the notes, you can pull that up, and you can read the whole recommendation that lays out all the reasons and everything, so, No, no Heidi's shaked shady, yeah. Yeah, it should be all. There and then like what supports are available like if I'm you know sharing with a staff member You know the team that this is going to be coming down the line It's like is your supervisor available to talk to you? Are there other people that you can talk to you about? things so I know you know, not all roles are going to be Touching euthanasia specifically, but it's just something that will help people feel a lot more comfortable with like knowing what they're getting into and making sure that it's a good fit and making sure that they're comfortable and can like You know, navigate those, those moments and they're still gonna enjoy what they do After experiencing that because I'm sure the first time someone experiences that it could be end of a career very quick if they don't know How to handle that totally and if they haven't like put some forethought into like, okay, you know Here's I might cry today a lot. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I've definitely been like, excuse me, everybody I'll be equipping the building to go do some crying. I'll be back in a moment, you know, don't ask me why I look puffy Everybody everybody cries and sheltering sometimes it's just part of the part of the spiel but uh, Yeah, prepare yourself for for what that could look like. And, you know, some places might have less euthanasia, but then might, as a result, have a lot of pretty heartbreaking cases, or you might see some poor quality of life situations that you might struggle with as well. Well, I think that was a great way to end this. Just wrap it up. I know it was a little emotional there at the end. I like to keep it on a really dark note. Oh my gosh. Okay, well, let's actually end it on a nice note. because I am curious, just, you've been in the training industry a little bit longer than I have. You are seasoned enough working with shelters. You've navigated your own business, you've been in, around a long enough that I'm curious, just with that journey, has imposter syndrome struck you at any time? I love the very big, yes, well, how has it like in, in what ways has that manifested for you and really hit you where you've like, I don't know what I'm doing when in fact, you know what you're doing. That's such a good question. Um, so, like, one thing that my boss is pushing me to, to do at some point is, like, to go and, like, speak places and talk about the work we do. And it's really funny because You're doing it right now. Yeah. Yeah, look at me. I'm doing it. but, like, a lot of times the work we do, it's just, we do it every day. So it just feels so, like, normal and ordinary. And there have been So many moments where I'm like, Oh, we just do like the regular stuff. And then, you know, You go to a conference where they're talking about like all the cool new things and you're like, oh, we, yeah, we do all, we do that. I guess. Yeah. Alright. I guess we're really good at our jobs or whatever, . yeah, so like, I think the last conference I was at was the Shelter Playgroup Alliance and Mara was like, oh, you know, east Bay does all these amazing things. Like we were talking about arousal and like decreasing arousal for shelter dogs and I was like waiting for, you know, something. life altering and she was using us as the example for all the cool things you can do. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I guess we are, I guess we are really cool. And we're really good at the things we do. so yeah, it happens all the time, but then I take a look around and I'm like, Oh, so one thing that we've done to D to work on focusing on the positive is create a witness board in our office and we try to remember to write down the cool stuff. that we did, whether it's like, you know, a client email that's like, Hey, I, yeah, this alpha stuff doesn't seem to be working. I think it's actually making it worse. And we're like, Oh my gosh, we love it. Or like, Hey, we did a really kick ass, like fear free, restraint free vaccination on, you know, this. really terrified animal the other day and huge win like yeah we spent like five minutes feeding hot dogs and we were able to do all these pokes without you know any sort of restraint like that's a huge win let's write that down so starting to celebrate ourselves in those little moments a little bit more has been the antidote for for me and my team good i love that that's like in our house we have like a fish bowl of like end of each week we just write down like one win Even if it's like really small, mundane, not a big deal to us, we still need to celebrate it. and that's a good way to like, yeah, like when I'm putting him to bed, he, I started asking him like, what was your favorite part of today? And now if I forget, he asks me, mama, what's your favorite part of the day? So it's fun to end on a positive note with him and, and. I love that because then it's like, you're like, wait, I'm doing a great job at parenting because now my son is telling me what's the great part of my day. It's like comes back. Well, that's awesome. And I think a lot of the times a lot of us forget to be mindful of how awesome we are because we're doing it every single day. We don't really. See it in the moment. It becomes mundane. It's just work. And then you're like, wait, oh, wait, no, this is awesome. And like, not the average person could do this. So yeah, like, oh, wait, we've worked really hard to get here. Acknowledge like all the like learning and courses you've done and like. It's paid off. Like I, I wouldn't have asked you to be on the podcast if I didn't think you were special and you were doing a badass job. Well, it's very reinforcing. So thank you. Good. Good. It should be. And you should talk at conferences because obviously I would love to hear you talk at a conference. If I'm having you be on the podcast, I want more people to hear you talk. So Once the, we'll, we'll talk once this critter can do more things. Right, by the time this comes out in fall, they're already gonna be here. It has been so awesome talking with you. I know we could talk even more, but I am sure you are tired from talking and you have to get back to work. Back to the grind. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to actually kind of connect and get a chat with you after kind of connecting on social media and stuff for many years at this point. Right, exactly. I know we're friends now. It's just like I'm finally seeing your face and talking to you after like, what, five years now? Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Tressa. I know so many people are going to relate to this and realize that, you know, they're not alone in this journey and maybe it'll help them really find ways to utilize and prepare themselves better for whatever they decide to do with their career. So thank you so much for coming on. You're very welcome. Thanks for having me. And if you like what we're doing here on the Leashed Mind podcast and you want to help others find us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on social media, give us a rating wherever you got your podcasts, whether that's leaving a review on Apple or giving us a star rating on Spotify or just leaving a little R plus on our Facebook page. It's all appreciated. Thank you, and we will be back with another episode.