Love & Entrepreneurship w/Jaime & John Caponetta

In Season 2, Episode 13  we invite Jaime and John Caponetta from Pawsome University whose lives revolve around their love for dogs and each other. 

Their paths crossed in a fairytale-like moment at an animal shelter, leading to both a professional and romantic partnership. Together, they navigated challenges from workplace dynamics to personal tragedies, like the loss of their beloved dog, Opal, showcasing resilience and the power of partnership.

The episode dives into their entrepreneurial journey, discussing the genesis and growth of their businesses. They touch upon the challenges of scaling their venture, integrating technology, and catering to the needs of reactive or fearful dogs.

Their story is not just about building a successful business but also about personal growth, mental health, and the balance between professional and personal life. It's an inspiring tale of following one's passion, the importance of teamwork in relationships, and the unbreakable bond with our canine companions.
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Follow on IG- @pawsomeuniversity + @jaimethedogtrainer
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Listen to their podcast- The Podcast For Dog People
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Transcript

0:07

Hello, and welcome back to the Leashed Mind podcast. I am your host, Mandy Boutelle. On today's episode, I have a conversation with Jamie and John Caponetta from Pawsome University. So, this is really the first episode I have had where I've had a couple on at the same time. not Many times, do you see spouses or couples managing a business together? I know myself, I am a rarity doing that with my own husband. Um, first having a dog walking business together, then a dog training business together, and now we are doing marketing and design businesses together. So, it was really awesome to get to pick, uh, Jamie and John's brains. First hearing about how both of their careers started separately and then they kind of met and then it just morphed and created this awesome business they have now. Now they have a farm and they are helping like rehab shelter dogs and doing so much work for their community and just helping in so many ways. So this conversation is very fun because it is a couple and just getting to hear two sides of the same story and hearing how their relationship has been maintained throughout growing the business. Because again, you will hear this when I have my episode with Josh, but maintaining a, any relationship, whether you're married or not. And doing that when you are also business partners is a challenge. And so it's really awesome to hear how these guys navigated it and how they've worked to prioritize their mental health together, but also separately, because that is important as far as being able to operate. Your business and be an entrepreneur and work to grow your business, which they have done. So let's get into the episode. It's a little lengthy, but it's so good. And there's so much laughter in it. Let's get into it. Guys, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm so excited to talk with you guys. Of course. Thank you for having us. We're really excited to be here. Been looking forward to this one for a while now. You guys are a couple. You have been together for quite a while. You have run your business together for quite a while. I No, many of our listeners probably know who you guys are. from social media. But can you give us a little bit of a background on how each of you got started in the industry? And then we'll kind of pick through that together. Sure, john. I think you should go first because you kind of started before. I'll set the foundation here. So I was actually working as a dispatcher. The company I was working for had lost. It was an ambulance dispatcher. We had lost some contracts and I was the low man on the totem pole. So I lost my job. and I was like, you know, my whole life I've been wanting to get into animals and working with animals. so I took a gamble and I took part time minimum wage job at my local animal shelter in Monmouth County, SPCA. And, slowly. Worked my way up, I got the full time position, and I was doing canine care, so we had all the husbandry, everything related to the dogs in the shelter, and then I eventually worked my way up to being the supervisor of that department. and then Now is a good time to pass it off to you before we spoil it. So, I actually went to school in South Jersey, Rowan University as an art major. I was working in Philly for my sorority's headquarters. So this is not going to work. I worked there for about a year and a half and I realized how much I really did not like it. I learned a lot of skills. Can't bash it. Cause I really, I learned how to be a business woman from being in the sorority, but the frills and like the glitter is just not me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a dog trainer. And she was like, well, now's the time to do it. You're still living at home, but while you're going through school online, you should get a job in the field. And I was like, that's actually a really good idea. So I worked at a daycare for Probably three or four months. And then, um, the woman who was running the foster program reached out to me because we were gonna foster a dog. and it fell through because my dog and that dog just didn't work out. But we kept in touch and she got me through and Lo and behold, the person interviewing was yours truly next to me. Literally, it sounds so stupid to say, but it was absolutely like, our, story is a fairy tale. I literally fell in love with him, love at first sight. Like, literally walked into the room and I was like, whoa. And, so funny, he hardly spoke! Like, he was so rigid and like, Like a hard ass and I was like really intrigued by John and I got the job and then we started working together and he was very like separate very professional didn't joke around much and like I'm a jokester and that's just who I am and I'm loud and annoying I could tell like I was starting to break him like he would like start to smirk and I was like, I got him We're gonna be friends whether you like it or not and then soon after we got together, and, um, it was a little bit of a scandal for a little bit, like, nobody really, nobody really knew except our close friends, and at the shelter, and then when it kind of came out, everybody was, like, pretty happy for us, but, we literally got together. Um, Pudge our first baby. She will turn. She just turned seven. she was a hoarding case dog where John was, um, one of the humane police officers on the case found the house 300 dogs in one house and we plucked her out of garbage. She wasn't even breathing. She was like two weeks old. Not even. I still closed crazy. Yeah, like our story is really insane. and that night I told him I couldn't get her out of my head and he was like, well, let's foster her. And I was like, we're not even officially dating. Like you didn't even ask me to be your girlfriend yet. Like, And we're going to foster this puppy together and we did and we just went back and forth between both of our parents houses and uh, thank God it worked out. But yeah, that was, that was kind of the start of it. And then, um, yeah, anything you want to add to that? I guess I left out an important part that I, I, in addition to, to the canine care, I was also a humane law enforcement officer. So I graduated the police academy in 2015 and then. So I was doing kind of like, I was wearing two hats, so I had both of those roles. so that's why I was able to be in a position to find that house and find Pudgelina. Yeah, so he was running animal care and he was a humane police officer at the same time. It was pretty crazy. and I was just your regular kennel attendant. Nothing special. That's, that's, that is absolutely special. Yes, but I did, I learned a lot of what I know now. I always say, people will ask me how I got into what I do, and I learned invaluable information and skills from the SPCA that, and from John really, because he's one of the best handlers I've ever met in my life, that you cannot learn. from school. You just have to be in the situation. So, that that kind of had to happen. And then we were working there for a while. And then she kind of got crazy there. And I decided I wanted to leave and I worked for a groomer for a little bit. And then while we were while I was doing that, he stayed and then he was like, All right, we're starting a business. Like I literally came home from work one day and he was like, We're starting a business. You're certified now. We're just doing it. And I was like, because he, you had a couple of businesses prior to that. 17. Yeah. 2017. So we were probably together for almost a year at that point. And I think you proposed right around the same time. It didn't take long. Yeah. You guys didn't waste time. I love it. So we just kind of dove into it but we started it off with Pawsome Walks which is our other business. that's our dog walking business. It started off dog walking and training together because I knew nobody was going to just hire me off the street and be like, oh, let's just hire this 24 year old girl who I knew. Knows nothing, right? So it just wasn't going to happen. So we started dog walking and training at the same time. Got my feet wet. Got it's a good intro. Yeah, just to like for the community to realize who I was and you know, and just, you know, word of mouth go that way, like both sides. And then, um, then you left the shelter and then you were working as a, what would you call it? It's a nuclear security officer. So basically I protected a power plant by us. I only do crazy things, apparently. So, yeah, he did that for a little bit, but like, the hours really were not great. And he made, you made such good money, but it wasn't worth it. Like, he was miserable. It was like 7pm to 7am so, it just wasn't good. And so He started helping with the walking. And then, then what happened? We got married and then we added more people to the team. Yeah, that's when we, we were like, all right, we need to, um, we need to figure out how to scale this thing because you don't want to be a dog walker forever. You want to get into the training and someone has to take over all these clients that we've gotten. so then we started like thinking, how can we scale this thing? And we kind of. That's when we got serious. We got actual, like, software. we use Time2Pet for our pet care business. That's like all the scheduling and everything happens through there. and then we started bringing on other walkers that we would very carefully vet. And it just so happened that most of them, they just kind of followed this flow of they got burned out at the animal shelter and heard Oh, there's greener pastures over at Pawsome Logs, so it just kind of became this thing where someone would work at the shelter, they'd get burned out, and then they'd come to us. So yeah, now we have nine walkers that work for us and we cover our entire county. yep. So a lot of our dogs that we train that are in the. area, um, that have issues with reactivity or fearful of people, but still need to be taken care of. Like they can't go to a doggie daycare or a boarding facility. my walkers will work with them, get to know them, you know, let them, you know, really start to like them and, and build a relationship. So now my, my clients are crossovers, they'll be training and then they'll also be walking as well. Um, so yeah, we, it's like we're training, but we're also using my walkers as like mock trainings as well. So it's been great for a lot of people in the community to get both sides and continue when they're on vacation to make sure that nothing's going to go wrong. Well, right. You guys kind of have insurance for your clients because it's like, oh, don't worry. Like we have a whole team of walkers. They're gonna get handled and it's exactly protocol you guys follow. So it's just like that insurance. Oh, I love that. Yes. So it kind of I forget what year it's split. We split 2019. Yeah. We decided to split them up. I wanted to do training on its own and thankfully at the time I had a really, really good manager that was able to take over possum walks and kind of do the day to day stuff that I would do the scheduling and dealing with the clients and stuff like that. And then I was able to really focus on just training. And that's when I went and got my IABC certification. So I'm curious how was just managing your mental health in that because nine employees, a new marriage and like house full of dogs that you guys have, then starting training and getting certifications, like, What was your mental health like for either of you during that process and were you just kind of like scrambling or just Breathing through it. we both deal with it very differently Yeah, I will tell you I am like sticks and glue together We're getting through this like I thrive on positivity type of person it is now now just hitting me. Everything is hitting me. Like it was honestly kind of funny when, when, um, when I saw this on the calendar for this week and I was like, Oh, this will be perfect because I'm a hot mess right now. I'm having a hard time. Um, I think after having two kids, you start to understand your attachment. Series and your triggers a little bit more because now you're like you have these two little minions that you have to take care of and they pull on your every button and, and you're like, Oh, okay, I'm doing something that I was, I don't know why I'm doing that. Right. So you have to like kind of dig a little bit deeper. And for me, I wouldn't you agree that I am one of the most stable people I know. So you were, I was, I was, things kind of hit me recently, I think with the business and just as big as we are in terms of like social media and stuff, there is a lot of pressure and to be like this perfect person. And it's hard. for me personally, it's coming to a head. I think you've had a very different experience than I have had. Yeah, for sure. My issues have always been, like, when I look back on, like, those really, like, pivotal parts back in, like, 2020, I don't look back at it as, like, a super stressful time. I just think of, I can remember specific things that maybe overshadowed all the other stuff and made them seem insignificant, like with Opal dying. Yeah, so we, for those listeners who don't know, we had a Double Merle Catahoula Leopard that we had rescued. We rescued her at, I think she was 12 weeks old when we got her. Eight weeks, eight weeks old. And then sometime around seven months, she started having seizures and they were kind of. It was always in the middle of the night. And it was always every, like how was every three weeks or so, like every 21, 22 days. Yeah. It was on, it was on a, on a schedule. It was almost perfect. Yeah. and we couldn't figure out what was going on. We started medication, things got a little bit better. and then, and she went from having it every 21 days to 43 days, if I remember correctly. Which was considered controlled. Yes. and then they came back and they started coming in cluster. So when she'd get one seizure, she'd get another seizure. within 12 hours, and she'd just keep getting them over and over again, and got to the point where we'd have to take her to the hospital, they'd have to put her on a Valium drip that would stop the seizure activity, and she'd have to stay there for like a day but she would mentally start over. Was it, it was literally, so the medication, she stopped responding to the medication. Yeah. She would forget everything after a seizure. You'd have to re potty train her, re teach her the house because she couldn't see. Did I mention she was blind? Oh yeah, she's blind. So she was Well, double merle usually. Yeah, double merle, yeah. Yeah, she had micro ophthalmia, so she had the tiny eyes that didn't work. so she, like, she had this, like, map of the house in her head and she would totally forget it. She would forget her potty training, forget her commands. Horrible. so we've, like, we've re trained this puppy. Probably 20 times. So many times. It was good practice, but at the same time it felt so bad for her because she was so frustrated and she didn't understand what was going on. Sad. It eventually got to the point where nothing was working. our vet said that it's just a structural abnormality in her brain. We're never going to be able to control it. we had the quality of life discussion. And we decided to let her go two weeks before. Two weeks before JJ was born. Yeah. We decided to let her go. It was literally, oh my God. Yeah. That was, that was really tough. Yeah. And it was the day, it was on the one year anniversary that we took her home. But like, I just, when I look back, I think of things like that. That kind of overshadowed all the other stuff. So it was just kind of gas pedal to the floor. And then whatever was the, the flavor that week for the stress was, was it. now. Now, since, okay, so therapy is, therapy is awesome. You got really lucky though, you have an awesome therapist. So, I, I've always struggled with anxiety. And just like a general anxiety disorder. And, and just like really bad anxiety that would come on. And it would, it would, I'd be down and out for like, how long? Sometimes several weeks. Yeah. Of like, just like. Always thinking I was going to die. not wanting to leave the couch. You were just kind of like almost like shut down. I wouldn't say that you were like, you were sort of miserable. Yeah. Yeah, he was in a, in a, in a freeze for sure. Like unmotivated. No matter what I did to kind of help him out, he was just like flat lined. And I will have to say, even when you were in those moments, you were a fabulous father, and you always took care of the kids. but when it came to like business stuff, things kind of just halted for him. And I think he also struggled with not feeling like you were good enough with that. Yeah. Well, when you, when you come from a background of humane law enforcement, animal sheltering, and now it's like, that became my identity. And leaving that behind, for two reasons, burnout, and because, like our, our business was growing, and, and Jamie needed my help. When you leave that behind, I kind of felt like I was taking on Jamie's identity and leaving mine behind and it really took me a while to get into a groove. You just made a face. Oh my god, no, you just, yeah, if anyone's watching on YouTube, like, I did just make a face because that just clicked so well for me. And you guys, like, everything you were saying, I relate to so. Fucking hard because that's exactly how mine and Josh's dynamic was for years because he had like Jamie, he had his business established. I went in kind of just being like, Oh, I'll help. I don't know what you want me. And then it was a lot of like. Okay, well, I'm just kind of your shadow. I'm kind of just stepping in. I don't really have my identity in this and I want to hear more about this, but I guess my face segwayed this, but that's why I did Woof Cultr because I wanted something completely separate of Josh. I wanted to establish my name completely separate of Josh because it was just like, what do I do? I don't want to just be your employee forever and I don't want to. Work underneath you for so long and it's that dynamic of having the relationship balance But also having the business balance and not letting those two cross over which I think you guys execute Beautifully, but that really speaks volumes on your relationship Maturity wise, professional wise, because it takes so much effort to run a business with your partner and not have your entire business be your entire relationship. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think in the beginning and I think the way that we kind of just plunged it and that's just how John and I do things. We just same when you get an idea. We're just in it. You know, we don't really think too long. See if it sticks. Yeah. And we're like, all right, let's just do this. Yeah. And you know what? If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it's no big deal. But We are definitely not planners. We're not routine oriented. We can't do it. A lot of people ask us like, how do you do it? I'm like, I don't know. We just get up and we just do it. I don't know. It just kind of has to happen. So we do it. but if we are set to a schedule, it falls apart within seconds. so we just kind of go with the flow. But from going off of that before, with john and you know, you also feeling, in the shadows, it's also hard on like, Our side, because I only wanted the best for him. I wanted, I was like, what's going to make you happy, whatever is going to make you happy. I will help you with, but you got to tell me what it is because I'm not a mind reader. And that was something that we struggled with for quite a bit because I wanted to help him. It was almost like he couldn't let me because he needed to figure it out on his own because if he didn't do it on his own, it would also be mine as well. And I think that was a struggle too. So I think, especially with Instagram, if anybody here follows us on Instagram, John has basically taken over it and done the damn thing. And I'm so grateful because I have no problem being on screen. I really don't. I could talk to a freaking wall, but when it comes to like execution and things like that, I, it's not my forte. I mean, how many times do we do things where you are having to edit and you're like, he's pulling out his hair because he's like, can you just say it differently? And I'm like, I can't. So there's no hair left at all. I get so awkward sometimes just when the camera's on me. Like, I can do this no problem, but when it's something script, I'm also, nobody knows here unless I've said it on my page, I don't even remember. I am idly dyslexic, so my reading is horrible. so I really, I don't know if it's the fact that I suck at reading or if it's the fact that I get so nervous when I have to read. the execution, how I'm saying it, my brain spins, and then I get overwhelmed, and I get tongue tied, and then, but like him, he talks so beautifully, and I'm like, how you just did that in five seconds, and I'm annoyed. But see, that's how you guys complement each other so well. You're able to switch off and say, Hey, you're good at this, take this over. I'm better at that, take it over. And that's the exact dynamic that Josh and I have had. Like, you hardly ever see his face. Like, you never see Josh talk, but I'm like, Hi, here, and hey, what's going on? And that's just that dynamic. But then it's like executing the business stuff. I'm like, Can you take it over? Like I'm so overwhelmed, but like I'll go do everything else, but exactly it's that balance and I think a lot of times it's figuring out like Where you can make it work and sure I'm saying with parenting like it's like hey, I'm tapping out. Can you tap in? Mm hmm, and I think it's it's John is I, I'm so grateful because he is not one of those dads that's just like, Oh, well, you're a mom. So you need to take care of everything. Like he does just as much as I do sometimes almost more. And I think it was great because with our, our kid dynamic as well, like, JJ, I pumped, I did not breastfeed him So he went to anybody with a bottle. So it was mostly john. Joey was basically attached to me for the first four months, and I was like, I need to go to the bathroom. Can I put you down, please? So, we have different relationships with the kids, whereas like, JJ and, and John are like, attached at the hip, like, most of the time when shit goes down, JJ looks for him, and it's such a nice Like, yeah, I'm a little butthurt because, you know, I'm mom and I would like to be wanted, but it's great because I'm not needed all the time. And it's, you know, again, like it's, it's something that I'm able to like, okay, great. Okay. That's taken care of. It's one thing off my to do list and it's, it's honestly so great. And I see, unfortunately I see other couples that don't have that dynamic and it does fall a lot on the mom and it stresses me out watching it. So I can imagine how that person feels in that situation. So I'm very grateful that John. Does his, his duty, no matter what hat he's wearing at the time. Team player, teammate. He is. He is. That's how it has to be, that dynamic of being a team. And like we just like everybody to understand that what we do we we try to be a family like we want everybody to understand that we yes we're dog trainers but we're also family people we have a family we want people to understand that we're authentic and and we we care about the other things too like it's not just about the business stuff so I think that has kind of kept us going too and and it It makes it kind of easy. We are, I would say, interlocked with our relationship and our work, but we don't, we don't fight often about work unless it's about me messing up video. Because then I'll get angry and then we fight. That's gotten better too though. That has gotten a lot better. And even like when we first got together, he tried to teach me how to drive stick. And first time I did great and the second time I was just having a bad day. When I am frustrated, he is not the best teacher. I literally was like, I should not be in tears trying to drive your Mustang. Okay, like this is not working. It didn't go well the second time. So I don't drive stick. Anybody was wondering. It never happened. It's like Josh teaching me snowboarding. I'm like, I'll go a few times and then I'm like, I need to learn from someone other than you. I can't do that. I'm going to hate you. It's not, it's not a good instructor. No. And some people just don't have that and that's okay. I really appreciate the fact that you guys do keep it very family oriented. And it's not just like so in your face professional dog training, which is still awesome. And you guys still have that beautifully represented in your business. But. how do I want to say this, it's, you guys are just more approachable and down to earth with your content. And so I feel like a lot of the times, like, In John's reels, like, there's just, there's comedy in it, so it's like, there's lightheartedness, it's funny, and I think a lot of the times people see that, and then they're just like, okay, it's not that intimidating, it doesn't need to be this big, heavy weighted thing. That's what we always wanted. I never wanted to be one of those trainers that just used all this jargon that nobody understands, and their heads are spinning. And she's dyslexic, like she said before. I don't use big words, I can't do it! I can't. So you're coming to the right place that that's not what you're looking for. Yeah, it's, uh, you need to meet people where they're at. And like, if your audience is other dog trainers and professionals, or at least the majority is, and by all means, you know, give us the, the, the psychology words and go crazy and really dig in. And even if you want to do that occasionally, like I like to do, but you need to meet people where they're at and really, like you said, be approachable. Cause it's in this field, we, we know that there's. Trainers, I'm using air quotes on that, who come out of the woodwork with all these like little methods that they thought up. and there's a lot of problematic trainers and we're competing with them. We're competing for, to get that client to use our services, which are going to be more humane, more science based. and we're really going to steer them in the right direction for really the rest of their life and all the other relationships they have with animals going forward. so we need to. We need to find a way to compete. We need to be better and that's why a while ago I made a reel and like most of them doesn't really go anywhere because of Instagram But I was saying we have to make better content. We have to be we need a higher quality content more amusing We need to follow the trends a little better and we really need to start meeting people where they're at well, you guys have really stepped up your game with that and just Like it's the content doesn't need to be lesson every single time. And I think that's where a lot of dog trainers fall apart. Not that that's a bad thing. It's great to provide information and value, but sprinkle in some fun, sprinkle in some realness, relationship stuff, storytelling, yeah, like relatable so that it's not so like. Oh my god, everything is a lesson. Like everything, because then you're also getting burnt out with like, what the hell content do I put out? I can only teach so much and regurgitate so much of the same thing. Yeah, we go through Leaps and bounds, like hills and valleys with that, um, of like what to put out. I remember right before we left on vacation, I came up with, and this was one of my best ideas. And it was like the first time that John was sitting in this chair and I came through that door over there and I was like, I just had a really good idea. I was like, we're going to do a series on shit. I don't give a fuck about as a trainer. And he was like. That's actually a really good idea. And I was like, finally, and we did them like right before vacation. And we, we, he, he sent them on their way on vacation. And I was like, it actually kept working cause we were vacationing, but like we actually were still keeping our Instagram alive. And I was like, wow, like this actually worked out really well. But then like the last couple of weeks, we've been like, there's other things that are taking precedent. So it's like, he's doing the best he can, but like, I'm nowhere to be found in that because I'm doing like 20 other million things. So it's like. In terms of social media, it's always hard to keep things going. Um, and I'm sure you can talk about your perfectionism that you've done so much better with. I mean, we used to never get anything out because if it wasn't absolutely perfect, he would not hit send. And then I'm sitting there pulling my hair out and I'm like, it's fine. I'm telling you it's fine. Um, so that's, that was one of the things I would say that. Earlier on in our relationship and in the business that we really struggled with that like we were both in different places and he's like, no, it needs to be perfect. And I'm like, nobody cares, as long as it's out there. One of our first, reels to actually go viral was one that I was footage that I was sitting on for three years. Yeah, we were still living in our first house. Yeah. And, it was the one about how, like why nail trims hurt. And it has a diagram of like the quick inside the nail and it kind of, covers how to use positive reinforcement to kind of get your dog used to that. And I never posted it, and then we just needed something, I threw it together, and I still didn't really like it, it was this new real format, and I had the old aspect ratio, when everybody wanted horizontal videos, and now everybody wants vertical videos, and I showed it to her, and she's like, no, post it, post it. I posted it, and the thing blew up in like two hours, and I was like, okay. You needed that, you needed that, it needed to happen so you could understand, yeah, for sure, and it is like that. You know, I'm sure you've talked to so many people on your podcast about the imposter syndrome and, and all that it hurts hard some days. And I think when you put content out there, especially ones that you perfected, you spent all this time on and like goes nowhere. I mean, it literally, it's like a slap on the face. I think we struggled with that for a really long time, and then once you kind of got your groove, I mean, it's been, you know, we haven't looked back. and you're just so good at what you do on the reels. Like, I really have no involvement in them whatsoever. Sometimes I'll give a good idea here and there, and, and I'll follow a script that he writes, but, that's mostly him. I don't know. The one where you accidentally opened the package was pretty damn good. That was an accident. See, I was getting in trouble again.. Yeah, that was, that was real. That was, I was like, why did you just open it real? Because it's my mom brain. I was like, there's a package that needs to be opened and here I am opening it and then I got scolded. I love it. And then you're just like, okay, we'll film it now. Might as well make it real punishment. Yeah. Because that's what happened. Save it. Like, and that, that was the other thing. The, one with all the bloopers of you trying to read the script. what was it for? It was like a Valentine's Day special or something. No, that was something else. I was actually really laughing because I was like, I am, I am struggling. It was for one of our online workshops. The Valentine's one was hilarious too. And I feel like that one wasn't appreciated. No, a lot of our good stuff isn't appreciated. Like, people don't see it enough. I feel like Instagram kind of does this dirty. Well, that was more for dog trainers. Because I feel like dog trainers So if you guys don't know what we're talking about, you need to go see John and Jamie's Instagram. So there was a reel, and you guys were trying to advertise like, couples fighting in the dog training program. Yes. Yeah, it's like that is so fucking real because it's so real. We have to be like couples therapists. Okay. So literally I had clients come to the farm yesterday and they've been working with me for a while and they've been really, really, really hesitant about putting their dog on medication. This dog absolutely needs it. It does not recover. He is so anxious. He is a hot mess. And he's super young and she tells me that she brought her husband there physically to talk to me because she wanted him on board because she was going to give her dog the medication without him knowing. And I was like, no, no, we do not do that. We are, this is a family affair. Everybody needs to be on board. I'm not having him come back later and say that I tricked her into putting this dog on medication. I was like, no, we're not doing that. But he was completely, he was so Sweet about it. He really was like the second he even said he was like, you know, I'm so glad I talked to you. I'm totally on board. Like, thank you so much. And I was like, you know, It's it that was a better version of what we usually deal with when it comes to couples There are a lot of times where couples are like legitimately fighting and i'm like listen blame it on me I this is what this is the plan. This is what we're doing moving forward I don't care what either of you have to say about it. This is what's going going on because you're both wrong And it doesn't matter who is right here. It really doesn't. All that matters is that your dog succeeds. And I think that's, you know, when you do what we do, it's not just the dog. It's the whole family dynamic. It's, you know, like some people don't understand, like if their partner doesn't want the dog on the bed because it's a comfortability thing, then you just have to be okay with that because that's their bed too. And like, It's just hard in, you know, in between and like, you know, we worked with a couple that were actually close with and I think the one that we were closer with was kind of thinking that we would side with her and reality. I'm more so sided with her partner and she was a little taken aback and I was like, listen, like It doesn't matter. You could have bags over your heads. It doesn't matter. It's just, I'm going to go with what works best for all of your animals. And what we have going on here, and your emotions as well. So if like, there's fighting going on and there's, you know, other issues as well, like your dogs are going to suffer and so will the training program. So it's not just about the training, it's like your relationship as a whole. so yeah, there's a lot of therapy work. Yeah. Well, and so it's really funny you say all this because the amount of times I've mentioned to people that Like, and I'm sure you guys see this too, like, how many times do you, you hear from the wife, the wife sets up the training plan, phone call, she usually shows up to the first meeting and then, alone. Yeah. And then it's like, well, my husband said, and it's like, okay, well, where's your husband? And, or, or just, you know, where's your partner? Like, it's always like one person will start the thing like, okay, we need a trainer. Okay. I'm going to contact the trainer. But then that one person is the one doing it. Yeah, 100%. I feel like a lot of the times it's trying to get the other partner on board and I don't know if I'm sure you guys encountered this because I, we encountered it so much and I feel like it does help when you show up as a couple and a team and you're like, Hey, we got this down. So why can't you guys? And a lot of the times, like, Josh would be working with a client, so how we would do it is we'd have our own separate clients, and then we would use each other on Saturdays when we'd do handoff sessions. And so he'd be like, oh, my wife's coming up with our dog, and they're like, oh, your wife is a trainer too? And it's like, yeah. And we work together, and we handle these dogs together, and they're like, oh, okay, get over here. And so it would always be that kind of situation. It's like, you see them training. And I'm like, Oh, don't look at it that way. Yeah. Dehumanize her. Cause then you're, then you're like shun, yeah, you're, you're shunning them and it's, that's, that's not, and that's another conversation I have to have mostly with women is to not berate the men because then they will literally want nothing to do with it. Whether you're right or not, it doesn't matter. Like if I'm telling John you need to do this because of X, Y, Z, but I have a nasty tone to me, he is literally going to fight me just because I have a nasty tone to me and it's, It's, I don't, I know we all grow up differently and we all see our parents act certain ways and relationships and stuff like that, but it's like, if that was happening to you, you would probably react the same exact way and it's not about the fact that person doesn't respect you. It's that they don't like what's happening. So they disassociate and they don't want to do it at all. And then everybody loses out. So it just goes to show like how much, how much deeper it is than just calling a dog training. Yeah. Yeah. It's so much, it's, it's a family affair and it's, it's a lot sometimes, but there's so much that we can do. if we just have the patience, I mean, there was, I will tell you, there was one session where I had, you remember, I came down like literally shaking. It was probably one of my worst sessions ever. And the dad was like basically screaming at me and I was like, What is happening right now? Like so many emotions because they stopped training for a little bit And she was asking me what to do about this and that and their dog he's just very fearful, but he will bite. He will definitely bite them. Um, like she, she was muzzle training and they were doing a lot of stuff and, and I will be honest, it was a lot on her. She was usually the one doing the sessions. He would come periodically and this and that and he was very more, very much so more like type A. and they stopped muzzle training because he was, he was having an episode for, for some reason, like something was going on that they couldn't quite pinpoint. Like his anxiety was just super high that week or two weeks. So I said, you know, take a step back with the muzzle, like let's just give him a little bit of a breather. And because we did that, it was like, He came at me saying that because we gave him a breather, now he's going to think that he doesn't have to do anything we tell him to do. And it was like this whole Oh yeah, that's exactly how training works. It was, it was almost like he came out of the closet being an alpha. And I was like, what just happened? I was like, dude, like, is this what you're actually doing behind closed doors? Because You seemed like you were completely on board with everything that we were doing and now you're yelling at me saying like he's a child that we just gave like, you give an inch, he takes a mile. I'm like, he's a, he's a dog, okay? He's having an issue right now and I'm not gonna shove a muzzle on his face when he's literally trying to bite your wife. And he was like legitimately like raising his voice to me and I literally looked at her and I was like, I am about to get off this call right now. I'm just letting you know where this is going because I don't deserve this and I think there are a lot of other things going on in your family that don't include me and I don't deserve what's happening right now. and, right, I came downstairs and I was like, I was like, visibly, oh, so many, so many emotions, like, It really, it really is. Especially when, you know, as a positive reinforcement trainer, someone's telling you that you're wrong and you put your heart and your soul into every single thing that you do and then they come at you and he's like, this is your fault, this, this was like, I'm like, whoa, like what is happening right now? Where literally the last session you're singing my praises saying that the dog is so much better, but like this one thing happens and I'm, I'm the devil and it's like, This is, this is like totally out of line and like two days later, I get an email with him apologizing and I was like, listen, that's fine, but I don't know if I want to work with you again and I don't have to, I really don't because that was out of bounds probably won't do this again, but, um, you know, I want the best for your dog. And this is what we're going to do moving forward. If you want to take that advice, you're more than welcome to do so. If not, that's okay too. Like it was, it was like next level and that definitely imposter syndrome after that, like that hit me hard. Like there's been a couple of things in the last year for sure that I was like, because then it makes you doubt yourself. You're like, was that my fault? Was that something that I did wrong? And, yeah, at the end of the day I can say no it wasn't, but like, there is that little piece that you're like, oh my god, like crap, you know, and it scares you a little bit, so it makes you kind of have to like reassess and get your shit together and, you know, reassess yourself in general. Right. And well, on that note, let's, let's, let's talk business boundaries and boundaries. Cause that is, you know, that's, I love that. You're just like, okay, well, you know, I may not be the person for you being able to acknowledge that instead of forcing yourself to continuously work with clients in that kind of stressful situation. You're just going to keep getting burnt out. That exhaustion syndrome is just going to get magnified. You're going to doubt your skill set when it really might not, like this situation, have anything to do with you. It is entirely the environment and their dynamic. Yep, 100%. I could, I can attest to that. I struggle with boundaries. You struggle very hard with boundaries. That, that, any fights, I'd say like the majority of fights that we've had throughout this whole business thing. Usually goes back to your lack of boundaries with clients and, and not being able to put your phone down and just settle. Yeah. It's just work, work, work, work, work. you have a really hard time with that. I mean, even this week, I took this week off for a mental break. And like, I went to go help my friend yesterday and I literally called him and I was like, I'm having anxiety right now, I need you to help me. And he's like, what's wrong? And I was like, I feel like I need to be doing something that's work related. And I feel like I'm letting everybody down and my kids down by not physically working right now. Oh, hi. Welcome to the club. Yeah. So, it's, it's rough. And just like, I have to like stop trying to climb the ladder. Mentally. Well, it's hard when you're an entrepreneur though because it's, Okay, what's the next thing? What's the next school I can tick off? Like, I just, you want to keep growing because So reinforcing and you want to keep bettering it. But it's like, Josh and I have this discussion all the time. It's, we need to really sit and let it soak in. Yeah, like soak up that success and how far you've gotten because you guys, your ranch, your like everything you're doing, you got to sit and soak it in. But I know how hard it is. It is just like, I want to be productive. Let's keep going. It's like one of those weekend and I did shit all weekend. Yeah, didn't relax. It's one of those things. It's like, well, when we do this, then we'll be happier when we do this, we'll be happy. And then we get there. And then it's like, like, how moving? Yeah, the goalpost just keeps moving. Like, we're like, Oh, once we make it big on Instagram, and it's like, okay, well, now we made a big on Instagram. And like, now we need to do this, we need to do that. And it's, it's so hard to just calm down. Also, because we're so family oriented, as trainers, I feel like sometimes people really lean into that a little too much, like they'll contact me. Yeah. And it's like I need to answer their questions almost immediately and it's like, okay, you're not unsafe. There's nothing wrong here. You did not need to call me three times in a row until I picked up. Yeah. and then, but then it stresses me out and I'm just constantly checking my phone and thinking that something bad's going to happen and having that type of, of, you know, mindset is not healthy either. but yeah, I definitely struggle with those boundaries and, working on it. Are you? Trying. I wound up, I started therapy this past year and my therapist did nothing for me. He just wasn't, was not a good fit. I mean, I basically just talked to zero for three months and we got nowhere. Like I learned nothing. It's like dating. You have to find the perfect match. I'm still working on it I mean, you can say social media is an attack vector, especially for her. one shitty comment that starts to make her question, especially when it makes you question, and I wanted to talk about this one as well. Yeah. Makes you question, like, your ethics. That would take you out for, like, a week. Yeah. Like, um, she would be Yeah, I made a post about reactivity and I got, um, accused of flooding dogs. And I was in our room with the lights off. I was like, no one, like the kids could not come near me. I was like, I am not, I'm not a safe place right now. Everybody just needs to leave me alone because I'm not okay. Yeah, you didn't articulate and it was, it wasn't even a video. It was a post of just text in the carousel and you didn't articulate well enough. So some people were able to misinterpret it. Mostly people who were other trainers. Yeah, they were just, they were just gunning for us. They were just waiting for us to mess up. We've had A very positive discourse with them in the past and it's like all of a sudden came for blood just came in and like that's the crazy thing like I would never look at another trainer social media and then especially someone else who's positive reinforcement and then they do one little thing that I don't like and I'm going to blow them up in the comments. Like, I would, if it really upset me, I would take it into, you know, direct message and say, Hey, you know, could you elaborate on this? Or, you know, this kind of seems like this, right? Yeah. Yeah. So they had, they had their own intentions there. So those people, they go scratch, but yeah, I struggled with that. It's like, yeah, whatever. I'll delete your comment and I'll move on with the rest of my day. Yeah. You, you excel in that area. I do not. I do not at all. Oh my God, it hits me so hard and I don't, I don't even know why. Well, I mean, a lot of the times I've mentioned, you know, we're all the same age. We grew up in my space, Facebook, like me, pay attention to me, need and I feel like for me, that is a huge one of. You know, you followed Woof Culture from the beginning, you know the comments I used to get and the interactions I would get. And that has dissipated, but that's because I have had to block and delete so many people. But when I was in that, like in the pit, Oh, I was so down. So, so, so, so my lowest point down and just really beating on myself and feeling like I wasn't doing enough. wasn't saying it right. People would get upset and they would attack me and it's like For fuck's sake, like, what else do you want from me? Like, you can't make everyone happy and you're not meant for everyone. And, this goes back to, I literally just said this in the episode that came out, episode 9, of like, your audience isn't dog trainers, so what the fuck does it matter? Yeah, that's what you said to me, you're like, why do you care anyway? You're not training their dogs, and I'm like, you're right. You're right. Exactly. They're not paying your bills. They are not giving you money. So why is that? They don't matter. They really don't matter. It's part because it's somebody else in the field. There's two different parts of you. Yeah. There's the part that knows all the logistics, all the that. Right? Yes. That makes sense. Right? I know that it's logical brain. Yes. But when I am like literally so raw, it just literally, I feel like a small child. And someone just smacked me in the face, and I'm just sitting there. It's like you just said, here's my art project, and they went And they crumbled it, yeah, 100%. Yeah. What did I do? And I think even more so, because like, you know, obviously as positive reinforcement trainers, like all the aversive trainers want to give us a bad rap, because we're, you know, we're all about the science, and we're annoying, and we don't shut up about it, and bah, bah, bah, and it's like, yeah, but I put my heart and my soul into this, and I treat absolutely every single dog that comes into my life. With exactly what I would do for my own dog. So when things crumble, I take it hard. And you should. If some, if you, if you're looking for a trainer, you should have somebody who cares about what happens to your dog. And a lot of them, it's like, it's just a factory. And it's like, you know, if you don't use this tool, then, you know, then it's your fault. That's why your dog is acting that way. And it's like, I treat everybody like I would a family member. And when it doesn't work out, yeah. And that's why I check my phone so often, too, because I'm like, I don't want anything bad to happen. I'm not ready there to, I'm not there to fix But again, I have to have that boundary. Yeah. And I have to let people kind of fend for themselves a little bit, and stand on their own two feet, otherwise it's going to constantly be on me. And you have to start to consider, what is the sustainability of the way you do things now? you know, what, where are you going to be two years from now? Are you just going to be run ragged, and just hate your job, and burn out on this? Yeah. Like, you don't want that. That Like you said, Jamie, like, you have the logical brain, you know all this shit, but it's getting the negativity, and you can't, you still read it, you still see it, you have to not take that in and internalize it and think, oh, well I'm a piece of shit, I don't know what I'm talking about, like, I fucked up, I didn't articulate that right, and it's like, oh my god, we can only get it so perfect for the right person, like, it's, and I say this because I'm saying it for myself too, I feel the exact same way, And when I had that happen, I'm like, fuck this. The goalpost just keeps getting moved. You're just throwing rocks from your little glass house. And I think that's what it is too when I see people, like even when I got like attacked about, you know, the, the reactivity post. it's like, why, what are you doing that you're coming at me right now? Like, shouldn't you be working? I am never. I am never on social media. Most I do is scroll through reels. And even if I think something, I hardly ever comment unless it's a positive comment. Because it's, it's not worth the energy, but like, I would never want to hurt somebody else. I really would not. And like, when people go out of their way, I'm like, how bad are you hurting that you had to come from me miles away and you don't know me at all? And that to me, I've never understood that. and that, I think, is why I've taken a huge step back with social media. I really let John take it because he's got way thicker skin than I do. I thought I was tough. I am not. Not at all. Social media gets under the skin. It's like It's different. It's like the mean girls in high school. Yeah. It's the same situation. Yep. 100%. Yep. And then, like, I always, I, I dig into, like, all, as much data as I possibly can. And I, I try and make sure anything that I say And then the second somebody questions it, I already have a little like a document ready with all my sources and everything. And here, here's all the information. This is how I came to this conclusion. You see what you come to. as far as that, what's the worst they're going to say that I'm balding? No shit. That's why I shaved my head. Like I'm not, I'm not, nothing that stuff doesn't bother me. I know. I dot my i's and I cross my t's. Yeah, you do. I don't do that because I don't like to read. Oh, you just blast shit out of it. I just, that is my problem. It is, I can admit that for sure. That's why I don't do it anymore. I've literally handed Instagram over to you. Here, here it is. It's in good hands. It is in good hands and I'm fine with it. Well, and it's great just for your relationship dynamic because I'm sure when you are in that mood and those things trigger you, it's going to bleed into your relationship. Oh, a hundred percent. Your kids, how you speak to John, how you interact with your dogs. It ripples. And so if John can take it over and be like, let's just prevent that from happening, like, well, he literally, I think after the first time you were like, you're done, turn off notifications on your phone. You're done here. And I was like, zero fun for me when you're that upset. Right? Yeah. And you can't do anything to fix it. not only that, you can't fix it. There's nothing that you can do or say that's going to change the way that I feel. Because everything that you're saying, I already know. So it's nothing new. You don't need to be talked down from it. No. No, it's just I gotta feel it and I gotta, I gotta let it ride until it's done and then come out of the dark. Really. Gotta get that thicker skin. Yeah. Working on it. But I like that you have that boundary and that you notice like, okay, social media just isn't for me in that sense. Like, I'll put my face out there, put the content out, but you're not gonna subject yourself. Exactly. Social media. It's such a, I have such a weird relationship with it. Like I grew my entire business on social media and I'm so grateful for it, but it's so toxic. And I think that's why for the last two years I was so. deeply depressed and burnt out and, you know, working one or two days a week and then being completely exhausted and unmotivated, scrambling to be productive, but I couldn't because it was constantly that negative self talk and not doing enough, not giving myself the downtime. And when you're constantly worrying about the approval of others and how they are going to interpret it, makes it really hard for you to enjoy what you do. And I mention this all the time. I've seriously Debated quitting Woof Cultr and just tossing in the towel because it's like, well, they don't like what I'm doing. I'm not putting out the right stuff. I literally had that thought the last two weeks. I'm like, why am I doing this? Like all of you, I've literally thought about it, like, what do I do? Yeah, like . Yeah, like it's like, you know, sometimes I think I'm like, if I just had a nine to five job, my life would be so much less stressful. We have that conversation all the time,, and it's like, and then I think I'm like. What? It's like there's two different people in my head and the person over here is like, that would suck. You'd hate that. And then the other person was here. Yeah, but like everyone's always yelling at me and I was telling me what to do and I'm exhausted and like the kit, this and that. And it's like there's so many and thankfully because of what we do and how we basically work from home. Our kids benefit so much because they see us around the clock and that's something that a lot of, kids around us in our area do not have. they usually have one parent that goes to work and brings home the bacon and then there's a stay at home parent. And that's just kind of how it rolls when the kids are that young. But thankfully we, we have a very different thing that goes on here and I'm so grateful for it. And if we both had nine to five jobs, they would be in daycare and it would be. It would be horrible. So there's so many pros and cons, but there I very much the last two weeks I've thought of like I could toss in the towel. I really could. I could throw it in and just be done. But I know that's not what I want. It's just. Well, negativity talking. It's also that negativity likes to just really be the devil's advocate and creep on all the intrusive thoughts. You're like, I'm not, I can't give into those. Um, you guys are just such a great example for your kids in that sense too, of they're seeing their parents be entrepreneurs. They're seeing them work together as a team. They're seeing what a healthy relationship. And out of work can look like, and you know, a lot of us didn't grow up with that. And so I think that's so awesome that they get to see their parents working in that dynamic at home in front of them all the time. Yeah. We were quite honest about what goes on. we'll fight in front of them and we'll also be, you know, very lovey dovey in front of them. I want them to see both sides. It's both sides. We like to validate feelings. Um, we like to, You know, show respect for others, consideration, and you know, we try to teach them as much as we can. And we apologize. And we apologize. That's a big thing. That's a big thing. Yeah, because I think in the beginning we both struggled with that just before the kids in general just apologizing in general, admitting defeat and that you were wrong and that you hurt somebody else. And it's okay that you hurt somebody else, but you need to acknowledge it. And I think that's a big thing that I think a lot of kids are missing out on. And I would never want our kids to say, They're sorry if they didn't mean it. but we also need to work on realizing what you did. How it affected the other person versus being mad because someone's mad at you. And I think that's a big thing, definitely in our generation, is to be mad because someone's mad at you. Versus understanding why they're mad at you and what you did to hurt them. We get our egos in the way. that's something that I think a lot of people struggle with. And we don't want that for our kids. Right. Well, and that comes back to the whole constructive criticism thing. I did not take that well for years. And I think that's because I was in the hair industry. And when they would give me criticism, they would take me down a few paces and make it personal. Whereas, you know, with this industry, it's not so personal, but it is a matter of, you know, okay, I didn't do that right. Tell me how I didn't do that right. Let me learn from it. Instead of I'm a horrible person, I suck at this, you're telling me I suck, like, I'm not going to improve, and it's a lot of the times we get in our heads with that, and then it just, that's where the imposter syndrome just shoots out, and then it's like, okay, well, I'm not good at this, and that's why so many good trainers out there quit, I mean, I did seriously, professionally for four years, and then I was just like, alright, the pandemic happened, I don't think I want to do this anymore. Yeah, yeah. It's tough. It really is. I mean, I don't, I don't even know what I would do otherwise other than maybe paint because that's what I went to school for. You wouldn't want to do anything else. No, I wouldn't. It's all I do. It's all I talk about. For, for you, Mandy, you've got to think like where that has led you. Like, you might not realize it, but I feel like you're literally a cornerstone of the positive reinforcement community. You're kind of like the glue that, like, that's like one of the main things we all have in common. Like you always see another trainer. Making videos and reels and they're wearing Woof Cultr and it's like you interact with them and and we interact with you and it's You created this sense of community for sure You're very never expect to get like r plus when like people say that's me But and it's hard for me to take that in. So for saying that and yes, I need to You should you do absolutely should because you do great work Thank you. You guys are so nice. I, oh, you made me lose my train of thought with that compliment. My bad. Damn it. What were you saying? Your shirts suck. As you're wearing them. Oh, I was saying, uh, what, what I would do otherwise if I wasn't training. Yes. So, I'm curious, do you guys think you would both be as successful if you didn't have each other? No, no, no, no hard. No, because I, I could build things and I could, I could, like, I could build brands and create this image and I can do anything strategic from a strategic standpoint for a business. I can't sell to save my life. I can't sell. So I would have this beautiful product that no one will be buying because. When we'd have a conversation, I would just freeze up and not say anything. You've gotten so much better at that now, though. Like, you don't do that anymore. Like, he literally, when we first met, my mom was like, I don't know about this guy, he doesn't talk. Yeah. He literally never spoke. And I remember what you said to me. Now I'm her favorite kid. Yeah, you are. I said, you know, you don't talk a lot. Even before we were dating, he was like, yeah, I, I am not in the business of saying anything unless I know that it's 100 percent true. Oh, I was like, did I mean it? Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, huh? Meanwhile, I am just word vomit all the time. I'm like, we are very different people. I think this podcast approved that. I don't, I don't think like, what does that mean? Yeah, no, anything that comes to my head, it's coming out. yeah. So yeah, very, very different in that aspect. And then for me, I would have never made the jump to even start my own business. Yeah. If like going through dog training, I probably would have tried to work somewhere else because I did not have the smarts to do it on my own. even now there are, you know, whenever I come up and again, like you said, we, we just, we just make a good team. Like we kind of just work together. I'll come with the, up with a crazy idea. And he's like. Alright, I guess I'll figure out how to make sure we don't die while we do it. And I was like, okay, great. Like, that's just our thing. Like, I'll, like, I recently, I'm like, we're gonna buy a second house and we're gonna rent it out for passive income. And he's like, Okay, let me get the taxes in order. And I'm like, cool. Like, we just kind of keep rolling together. Like, it just kind of works. Well, we, uh, we have a friend that's a medium. We, we met her first because we had used her service as a spiritual medium. and she, I guess one of the spirits said that our relationship was being shown to her as if I'm on the ground. Like, holding on to, like, a line to a kite, and she's the kite, and I'm keeping her from, like, going off into nowhere, like, I'm keeping her right at the right level where she needs to be. You keep me grounded. Yeah. I love that. That's exactly like Josh and I. The only thing I would add to that would be that I'd have, like, a fire extinguisher in the other hand. Just kind of keep things under control. Keep me, keep me cooled off. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think it's a pretty accurate representation of us. I think so, too. It just works. I love that. Yeah. I love how you guys even like found that out and you're like, that works. Yes. That is exactly the dynamic. I think also we like each other. Yeah. We do. We like each other. Like it's funny people. Yeah. If like we're separate. Like if I go somewhere without him for whatever reason, they're like, Oh, you guys get a little break, you know, cause you're together all the time. Like you work, the kids and your home, whatever. And I'm like. We don't really look for that, though. Same. Like, we really, I don't, I don't mind being with him. Like, I like him, and when he's not there, I get sad. And I think that's a lot of the things, too. I feel like a lot of the times the partner dynamic and in the business aspect, it's people don't notice that a lot of the times the people that are running the businesses together, where if they're, even if they're not in a romantic relationship, it's It's finding someone that works so well with you that compliments where you aren't the best in, and being able to have that balance in there and liking them and enjoying working with them. And I think that's a lot of things that we get hit with too, Josh and I, it's just people don't, a lot of the times people don't even understand that we're married. And I'm like, that is great! Like, I actually appreciate that, because I'm like, great! I established myself outside of my husband. And like, our marriage is separate from our work. But, and a lot of times he'll be like, Oh, I didn't realize that like, you are DigiWoof as well. I'm like, yes, I am. But, it, it, it's, you're right. I enjoy my spouse. I love being around him. I do not, like, I want to be around him all the time. The other night I was like, I just want space. And Josh will be like, well, can you come watch it out here? Like I still wanted to be around you. And I'm like, that's cute. Okay. How many times have I gone to the store and you're like, but can I come? And I'm like, I mean, you can, you're more than welcome. Very funny. Yeah, I agree. But I just, I love, from the moment I started following you guys, I have loved that dynamic with your business. It's just the way you compliment each other, the way you work so well together, it's Not something you see in a lot of businesses, especially when you see other couples running a business because a lot of the times you can see there's some kind of passive aggressive or vindictiveness in that. And I don't see that with you guys at all. It seems like we're just best friends working together. really are just having a great time. We just have fun together. I want to get into how you guys have been able to just, like, run your farm and start that whole segue. So can, you know, for anyone that isn't following you, which is rare, but can you kind of explain how you guys decided to get your farm and what you're doing with it now?. Okay. We found this farm because I wrote in a Facebook group, if anybody was looking to sell their farm. And this girl reached out to me and she was like, Hey, I'm a horse trainer. All positive reinforcement. I was like, this is weird. she was like, you know, we have a nine acre farm. Like, do you want to come check it out? So we went and it was like And the first time it fell through because her husband had, a heart, something with his heart and he had to go to the doctor. Yeah, they were worried about it. They were worried about something. It ended up being okay. So we canceled and then we didn't reschedule for like a long time. I think it was like a month. And then we came and we looked and like we literally pulled up and he was like, this is the house. Which is weird coming from him because I would be like, no, this is the house. I said it like a million times and it wasn't, but like when he said it, it was, it was what it was and it was everything that we wanted. I mean it had the barn that we obviously fixed up, the nine acres, there was a lot of fencing already. It was a four bedroom house, two baths, and it just fit and she was like, can we do it private sale? And I was like, yeah, but I have no idea how to do that. But I let again. Pass the crazy idea on to him again. You figure this out. and we did it and we closed last August. This August will be two years that we've been here. and it just kind of worked. Yeah, I flew by. It flew by really quick. and yeah, JJ is three. So like, it's just crazy. and then we closed and I think we literally took Salem, the barn cat, the week we closed because they were like, You wanted a barn cat. Here's your barn cat. Like, she's waiting for you. And I was like, wait, I thought we were going to close like in the beginning of, of August. Cause you know, nothing ever goes to plan when you buy a house. so literally like, like the, the day we moved in, she came and I was like, all right, here's our first animal. Cause we obviously couldn't wait. a few weeks later we took Boo Boo the pig. He was abused. Set him up, and then we took the four goats from the same farm that he was at. They weren't being taken care of. took the girls, and then they were all pregnant. Then we didn't know it. Yeah, that's how that all started. A lot of people don't realize. We adopted the four of them. You got a bunch of animals all of a sudden. It was not planned. right when we closed on the house, um, we also found out that we were pregnant with Joey. And I was like, Wow. Okay. That happened really quickly. A lot. There's a lot going on. A lot. so took the girls, the goats. And when March came around, I was like, you know, John, they're looking really big, but all four of them. So like, we kind of just thought, you know, they have like, how many, how many stomachs do they have? How many stomachs? Yeah. They blow. You're just thinking of the rumen. They, they blowed up. We were like, oh, they probably had a lot of hay, probably, you know, a lot of grass. And we hadn't had them for a full year, so we didn't really know what they, you know, they lose hair. They, they, they changed through the seasons. So I was like, you know, they're looking really big. And then I was like, I was like, John, I see some discharge. I was like, I don't, there's something's going on here. And he's like, Oh. So we were like, literally like feeling their stomachs. I'm like, you're feeling movement. And I was like, babe, they're pregnant. All four of them are frickin pregnant. So, JJ's second birthday party, 20 minutes before everybody showed up, Bean decided to have her two babies. So it was like, come for a party and a show, like, you get both. Have some pizza, some ice cream, and then head out to go see the baby goats that were born 20 seconds ago. and then within the month, I'm eight months pregnant at this time, and they just, throughout that whole month, they decided to just keep having babies week to week. So we went from four to eleven. And Boo Boo, the poor pig, was losing his mind. He's like, there's so much going on. He was so stressed. I felt so bad. yeah, it was, it was kind of a hot mess for a little bit. It was crazy. My anxiety was really up because I, Yes, and I just kept thinking that the babies were gonna die, that it was too cold, and I was like freaking out. It's like I'd be up in the middle of the night, pregnant, just, I would, I think there was one morning, I went out there at 2 a. m. with a flashlight just to count them all, to make sure they were all alive still. You know, cause I'm nesting trying to have a baby and then they're having babies and it was just, it was just a hot mess. So yeah. And then we got ducks. We lost the ducks. They, something took them in the middle of the night. That was hard. but when you get a farm, they basically tell you like you have to be prepared, prepared for casualties because they happen. but the first casualty hit me really hard. That was bad. Someone said, if you have livestock, you have dead stock. And I was like, wow, like that's like so, so tough, but it really is so true and it sucks. But it is what it is. Kind of like what you you're signing up for. You have to just be in the right mental space. Yeah. To accept that. Yeah, I mean, taking care of them is really not super hard. they're very low maintenance right now. when the babies were young, that was tough. We had to make sure that everybody had enough food, so they were producing enough milk to feed the babies. and boo boo was obviously stressed. Yeah, the minerals, all that good stuff. So like that, you kind of, there's a lot of Facebook groups too, like Goat 101, like, cause. Getting a farm vet out here is like, you're, you're, they could be dead before anybody comes. Like it's, it's, yeah. Like things happen really quickly. Um, so there's a lot of things you have to, like, just keep an eye on. It's not a lot of work. It's just being knowledgeable and knowing what to look for. All right. Well, and going from four to eleven, it's, that was, yeah. Not what we signed up for. Literally, we called, we called John daddy doula because he literally helped them all have their babies. It was insane. Yeah. Daddy doula. It was, it was good. I wasn't anticipating on developing, but okay. The life just gets crazier. Yeah, yeah, people say it all the time. They're like, how do you guys do it? Like, I don't get it. And I'm like, listen, any of the things that have happened recently are not any things that we kind of planned. They kind of just all kind of happened. And, I don't know, I always just feel like I am the kind of person who always believes like things do happen for a reason. Um, and I try to find the silver lining in everything. I mean, I love the goats to death. They're pains in the asses, I literally call them. gestational, uh, what do I call them? suicidal gestational nightmares because they just try to kill themselves all the time. Like they wake up and be like, oh, how can I die today? And make it kind of funny. So funny. They're insane. They're nuts. They really are. Um, the other day, Kano and Rook literally both stuck their heads into a bin at the exact same time. So they were wedged with their horns. So they're, they're both bleeping and I'm like, can you just stop moving? Let me help you. Oh my God. They're just, when you, when you look back on it, what it really comes down to life presents you with opportunities all the time and you have a decision whether or not you want to take those opportunities on or not. You know, we could have said no to this, to seeing this house because I didn't like how it was so close to the power lines and lo and behold. Like when you're actually in the house, you don't see the power lines. You only see the power lines when you're out on the farm. And even then, like, they just kind of become nothing. Like, you don't notice them. and then, with the goats, like, we could have said, No, we're not ready to take on this many animals right off the bat. But then we'd never have all the experience that they've given us. So it's, a lot of it comes down to just being willing and brave to just say yes to an opportunity. Whatever happens happens. Yeah. But also doing your due diligence and I have to, I have to, uh, pride John on that because anytime we do. do something. He doesn't do anything half assed. He always does the research. And I probably count on you a little bit too much for that. But, um, I appreciate that because that's not my jam, but I, and that's why before I met him, I don't think I took many risks because I wasn't willing to go the whole way and research and figure things out the way that they need to be figured out. But he always does. When you came home from work, when you're working at the groomers and I said, we're starting a business, you're like, But I don't even know how. I was like, well, I already have our LLC right here printed out. And I just like, I remember standing in the doorway, like I was still covered in hair and I was like, my brain was spinning. And I was like, I can't do that. I can't be a business person. And he's like, but you can, and you're gonna, and it's going to be fine. Yeah. And it's, it's just crazy that we're here now just because he made that one decision. I think that's the only decision you ever made on your own that I had no involvement in. That, that, that's not a good optic for me, the way you just heard of that. It doesn't sound good. But think about it, because anything you've always ran by me Hey babe, is it okay if I have some cereal? No, that's not what I mean. I mean more so because of your perfectionism. Like, that should have honestly scared the crap out of you. And it didn't. Really? You just went for it. Yeah. So clearly you knew He pushed me, when usually it's the other way around. Like, he wants everything to be perfect before we execute. And that, he just literally signed up for the license and we just He already, you already had like half the website done before I got home from work. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. I was like, what a Yeah. Once I saw the name, I was like, I gotta run with it. And then I picked the two colors. I picked the hex codes. I was like, I like these two teals together. You put Gatsby, my parent's dog, in the logo. Yeah, for Pawsome Walks. Like, it was just, like, half of it was already done before I got home. And I was like, what's happening? That's like Josh with Woof Cultr. He was like, so I came up with a t shirt idea. I think we should do this. this is going to be the business name and I, we were dog walking and I was just like, I have eight dogs with me. I'm like, okay, fine. Sure. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Whatever. We'll fucking start it. Like that'll fucking take off. Okay. Sure. Josh, I'll follow you. I probably thought the same thing when he gave me that because you had your t shirt business prior and it didn't take off and I was like, I guess we'll see how this goes. And then it just did, just worked. Well, sometimes the impulsiveness, like, it can really pay off. And it's not impulsive, but it's like, I tell Josh, I'm like, you make the best impulsive decisions. You know, going on a date with me, of course, obviously. I love that. Starting Wolf Culture, starting his training business. Adopting Fern, when, two weeks after we bought our house. We closed our house like December 17th, brought home for January 7th. Then bought like Fig, like when Fern was peak adolescence. I'm like, are we insane? We just not want to have a life. And I'm like, no more impulsive decisions. We've made all the good ones, like let's stop doing it. And then he's like, let's do a software. I'm like, fuck dude, like. Yeah, you can't stop. No, but it's also having a partner that gets excited with you about it. Like, it's just, it's easy to roll into it. Cause it's like, all right, we got this. Like you got this part. I got this part. We can do this. And I feel like a lot of the times, like. We forget the dog trainers, like entrepreneurialism is like the biggest aspect and we are never taught how to do that. And so like Jamie, like you were saying, like you wouldn't have started your business if it wasn't for John. It's the same thing of just, like, we never think to take that leap and, like, trust ourselves and do it. And sometimes it takes the other person saying, Okay, no, you're gonna do good at it. Like, let's just do this. Yeah, like, he believed in me and he was like, No, we're doing it. And that's it. It's now or never. We gotta take this. Yep. It's crazy. And look at where all those, like, where were you guys, like, and it's so cool to look back and see that and be like, Like, if I didn't take that leave. And again, like, I, I feel like the stars aligned. Like, when he interviewed me. And I always, I always want to remember that, like, we have that love story fairy tale. Yeah. I remember the moment, like, I see it in my head all the time, and it's like, that was a pivotal moment in my life, like, it was like the old chapter of who I was closed and the new book started. And that was it. a good way to describe that. That's exactly how I felt. Like, I got to put everything And again, it's not always in the past because obviously like, you know, talking about going to therapy and like digging up the stuff that affects the way that we act now. but I was able to stop the back and forth with my old life and figuring out like where I, where I was supposed to be. And it was like just meeting John just made everything so clear. And it was, it was so, for the first time in my life I could just stop all the other bullshit. And focus on me and just do what I wanted to do and it was nice to have somebody even when we first started dating, whatever you want to call it. it just like always felt like he had me in mind, which never felt that way prior in the rest of my life. So it was, it was just a big change being with him in general. So I appreciate that up until it seems like recently it's always been like you were, it was your business and you were the face of the business and like everybody thought like when I left the shelter. That it was just like you were just going to take care of me and that was that. And people didn't really see, like it was your show. You also never talked about what you did. You never, I would always have to brag about it. I'm like, this is what John does. Like people don't understand what he does in the background. They don't, when people ask, they don't really want the answer. And I'm going to sit there for 30 minutes. Oh, you know, do SEO. And you know, we, sometimes we got to get more rankings on our website and write a blog post. I'm always starting a podcast. And you know, we're testing out new microphones. Like no one wants to hear all that. So it's sometimes it's just easier to brush off the. The question and you struggled with it just being my thing, but it really like, I would not be where I am today if I didn't have him. Like he always did the stuff in the background. I mean, I have things in my head from us when we first started the podcast, sitting at our old kitchen table, like yelling at each other before, because we didn't, we weren't so like fluent, we weren't so confident in ourselves. So we were like overthinking every single thing that we would say. Like we would pause and be like, should we say that? And I'm like, We don't even know what we're doing. Yeah, the best thing, the best thing we ever did was stop scripting our podcast episodes. Yes, oh my god. And just talk. It was so stressful. It just gave, it was so disingenuous to just read from a script. And then once we, once we changed it up and, and started actually just having real conversations, that's when the podcast got traction. And that's when that started to, you know, we started to reap some benefits from that. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, it's like there's the conversational way. It's just more approachable. It's more fun to listen to. I tried scripting in the beginning and it's just, it's like, I can't, it doesn't feel natural and I can't read. So it really, I was like, this is not working for me and you're yelling at me and I can't do this. I like we would, we got just so many fights in the beginning. We really did. It was, it was, it was a hard time for us, but we came out of it and we just kind of, it's like the same thing with instagram. We tried for so long and nothing got traction and then yeah. We just kind of switched things up. And again, when I say we, I mean you and, and it took off and I'm just, I think I'm most grateful obviously for everything that we have, but also that John is starting to find his own footing and feel like this is where he truly does belong. I knew it since the second it started, but I need him to know that I need him to believe that for him to do the really good work that he's doing. And I think the second that you realized it, that's when Instagram took off. You stopped hiding. Yeah, and it, that also like, it almost lined up with when we, I'm sure you saw on our Instagram that we just about finished our renovations on our barn to turn it into our little rehab facility and now we're working, we're only gonna work exclusively with rescues and shelters and uh, we're gonna take on their, their dogs that they, not that they're unadoptable. because so many of them don't want to take a chance on, on adoptable dogs. But yeah, they need a hand. They, they need something. They haven't gotten any interest. They're like, the stay is really crazy. Or the training. That they're using or have at their disposal in that shelter or rescue is not enough for what the dog needs. so now that we have that program. Gets so far in that environment. yeah, for sure. So here it's much more quiet. That's, that's really our main focus right now. What we're doing with the barn. I have so many people reaching out to us and they're like, Oh, do you board dogs? And I was like, no, we don't like, do you do board and train? I'm like, no, not, not for our own dogs. because you just want to drop your dog to me and let me fix the problem. And it won't get fixed because this is not your home. And this is not you. I am not you. and a lot of people really have a hard time understanding that. I won't give people the option to be lazy. So we're just doing the shelter dogs, the rescue dogs who really need the help, and the rescues who are really trying to do the best for these dogs, but don't have the resources. I love that you guys are just so committed to like, you're, you're constantly wanting to help and provide other ways to help. Like you're doing this, you're doing, you have a sniff spot on your property. Like there's just so many different ways. It's like, stop. Like you guys, there are 12 frying pans, frying at all times. And it's, it is overwhelming at times. It is. There are some times where I'm like, all right, that. I need to like put that frying pan in the back of my brain for right now because it doesn't do me any good by it being in the front right now because it's just not going to get handled right now. Just can't forget it. Yeah, forget it for a little bit. Well, I think that's why I, I just, I respect you guys doing all that you do because I know what it's like to do all the things and have all the frying pans and it's a lot. And you guys have kids on top of that, which one thing I don't have that I am like, I can't do that. And you know what? It's not for everybody. and we would not be able to do without my mom. My mom watches them three days a week for us. and she is just like to the point where we're in this business group that meets 7 o'clock in the morning on Thursday mornings Every week. It's like, it's the thing and she will literally take them for sleepovers Wednesday night So we can go in the morning and not have to worry about the kids and that they're taken care of and I I'm so Grateful for her. She is like the best we call her naughty. She is the best She just she loves my kids as much as I do and I'm just so grateful for that and again I would we would not be where we are right now if we did not have her because once Joey came into the mix Things were very different. Like the whole dynamic changed and we're like almost outnumbered. I mean, we basically are because of all the animals. So it's like, you know, and it's just hard. So it's like we try really hard to just keep a good balance. And it's, it's the keeping the routine with kids, even though John and I are not routine oriented people, I think is probably the biggest hurdle, but I think we're doing okay right now. It feels like the ship is on course. There are sometimes it doesn't, there, there are some months where you're like crap. Like, this is not working. Like, if they get sick, and you know, they get sick together. So, and then if you get sick, you know what? They don't tell you. And I was really mad about this. First time I got sick after having JJ, I was like, I said to my mom, I was like, You never told me. That's when we had COVID. We, yes, we had COVID. I was like, I still have to take care of him? When I can't get up? Like, who's supposed I was like, I need my mom. Like, this is not okay. And she's like, no, you just, you just got to do it. Like she was willing to come over and I was like, no, I'm not going to get you sick. but you know, he was such a gem. I mean, he basically slept all day. He just like hung out in his crib. Cause we could not get up. He played in his crib and he watched Blue's Clues. Yeah, one of us was just half dead in the chair next to him. Yeah, it was. So yeah, like it's, it's very touch and go at sometimes that they're, you know, we get really good, highs at some point, but then sometimes it's rough, but you know, you just kind of keep going. But you guys have a support system and I think that's something that a lot of people forget when they want to start a business and they want to go into this stuff, it's, you have to have ways to delegate and ask for help and I, I think, you know, I'm terrible at asking for help, but once I learned to do it and lean on other people that could take things on that I just wasn't good at. And I didn't want to be good at, I wanted to lean into what I was better at, like being able to do that makes you be able to grow, it makes you be able to get ahead, you guys would not be where you are if you didn't have the support and being able to delegate and being able to task out, and I think that's something that a lot of us forget. We may want to juggle all the frying pans, but that doesn't mean we should. Yeah, agreed. Absolutely. Or get them all done at once. That's what I struggle with. If I have an idea, it's like I want to execute immediately and he's like, you need to sit down. Because we physically can't do that at this moment. Anytime we have an idea, I'm like, let's let that simmer for a little bit. Let's think about it. It's so funny because I'm so opposite. I'm like, no, we have to do it now because it's really good and it should be done. You get married to your, your little, like the second you come up with an idea without any. Any, like, revision, you're, like, married to the idea. Crap. No crap. I'm like, but what about this? None. You never support me. It's always when it's your idea, it's right. You always, you love your ideas, and you run with them, and then when they're mine, I have to, like, really, really press you on it for you to understand how good of an idea it is. But what did you say before? I don't say anything unless I know it's right, and I've gone over it a million times in my head. So before we wrap up, I am curious. Do you guys have any piece of advice that you wish someone would have told you when you first started out? Like when you first started your business and you struggled really hard. I think, The number one thing that comes to mind is, especially with the dog walking, being a leader is hard, being a boss is hard, it's not going to be rainbows and sunshine, there has to be boundaries, in the beginning, the person who was running it, once I broke off and started doing more training, we were very, very close, probably too close, And things got weird. and didn't want to do it anymore and then wound up starting her own business and becoming my competition. yeah, it got it got really weird. because when you're too friendly And it's business, things get weird. And that's just, it's just what it is. that experience taught me to have better boundaries with the people who work for me. where I can still be that empathetic friend, but I have to draw the line somewhere. And I think, that, that experience has taught me a lot for the people that are working for me right now. Because I do, I have someone who works for me who has a lot of mental health issues, but is a fabulous worker. Like, works her ass off and does everything I, like, in terms of the job description, gets shit done. Really, really well. I have to be empathetic, but also not wrap myself into it. and if the first issue didn't happen, I probably wouldn't have handled this situation as well as I am right now. So, there it's, it's not going to be perfect. being a leader, It has its pros and its cons, and I think it helps you throughout your entire life, so even though it may suck at certain points, it'll benefit you down the road. I know one of your other questions was, your favorite book. Brene Brown, Dare to Lead, highly suggest. I love that book. And, what's the wilderness one? Braving the Wilderness. Braving the Wilderness. It really, resonated with me and, and then I, I, I've read most of her books now, but that one and, , Braving the Wilderness, the Braving the Wilderness is more of a personal book and the Dare to Lead is definitely more of like a leadership, how to run a business more often and really work with the people and set those boundaries being there for them Not being this like tyrant boss who makes all the money doesn't give a shit about them But also having those boundaries so you're not getting too involved Where you're feeling you're finding that normalcy and it it was very very beneficial for me in general to kind of have that They're both centered on Vulnerability, which is and shame thing. We talking about shame a little more of for sure I have a two part answer. I can't just pick one because one of them is like truly what I wish we knew from the very beginning. if you are at the very beginning stages, set yourself up for scalability now before it gets too messy. You're doing, if you, like, especially with the dog walking, if it's all, if you do everything just by your Google Calendar, or you write it down in a pad, like, you're not going to be able to scale that way. So, your vision is going to be, it's gonna seem way more difficult than it actually is to scale down the line. And when I say scale, I mean like taking on employees, and kind of taking a step back, and letting them handle all the stuff. So that's why, like, when we switched to the software, that kind of changed everything. So, like, finding a good software, and Obviously covering all your bases as far as like how you pay yourself and setting up a bank account and setting up an LLC like do it all right so that you, you're just set up for success. Yeah. Yeah, and as far as like setting yourself up like the business group we're in it's called LeTip and it's an international business group so they're all over the place so if you're a local chapter, I'm sure you have one local to you. doesn't have anybody in the dog training or the pet sitting field. I highly recommend you go that route because you can learn so much business skills from people and you can get so much business from those other business people. It's basically a group where, there's one person for each category, like florist, photographer, plumber, home contractor, like all these, like there's in our group, there's 98 people. So there's 98 people that, And it's called LeTip because you're supposed to give tips. So basically like I would give a tip to somebody, like if I have a client who needs a plumber, like, Oh, I have a guy for you and like literally put it through and have the plumber reach out to my client. and the goal is for us to continuously, you know, give each other business, but business that we should respect because it's coming from. Like, if, if I'm giving somebody my client, they better treat them with respect. And that's kind of like the whole, the idea about it is like doing good business, but, and then referring each other and really getting to know each other. Everyone's vetted. You have to be voted in. you have to be a guest of one of the members. So like someone else has to get you in. But it's not like super impenetrable, like we got in through one of our training clients. You should really do this. Oh, that's so cool. Um, so then Jamie got in our underdog training. I thought she was crazy. I was like, I have no idea what she's talking about. It's actually, it's really cool. It's called Le Tip. It's awesome. And then the other part of my answer, I actually had this conversation. I think you know Carrie, situatedk9 on Instagram? Yes. she's always making like the reaction posts. I had this conversation with her because I really feel like she's the next one of us to really blow up with her account. And we were talking about, like, social media and how, how you can, you always have to watch what you say. And the reality is, even from the very beginning, when you only have 100, 200 followers, don't post what you think people want you to say. Post what you want to say, because at some point, you can, you're gonna, if you keep with it, you're going to have several thousand people, and you want those several thousand people to be your tribe, your people, the people who Want to hear what you have to say and not you just worried about what you're saying to them. you just set yourself up to maintain your authenticity long into the future. That's the most important thing. Oh my god, John, you just hit the nail on the head. That's exactly, yes! Yes, because I feel like a lot of the times it's, well this is how someone else posted it. This is how someone else is doing their content. This is how I guess I should do it because this is how Majority of the other people in the industry do it when it's like, but it's your page. It's your business You can make it how you want. And I think a lot of the times we forget that it's our business Like me with the podcast. I'm like, it's my podcast. I can do it. However the fuck I want exactly But I'm still like 100 percent someone else did it this way. It's not good enough And if you're if you're your authentic self people will like you for you. There's always going to be people. I think, especially with the podcast, I think most people that have reached out to us about it, love the fact that John and I will like, Squabble and we'll like have conversation like real just normal conversation and joke around. It's not scripted and it's just normal And they want to see that. I also feel like if you're authentic self and and you're you're really just being you the information that you're giving It resonates better with people like they're like, oh, I really like you like we it's more genuine. It's like You're saying this because of XYZ and I love that right like whatever you're saying has meaning and I understand the want for people to know that information or the reason why you're bringing that up and Versus just like shoving information down people's throats and making it super like Like doctor talk like I can't like we just yeah, I can't so I've always wanted everything that we do I just want to make it fun it shouldn't feel icky, it shouldn't feel weird, it shouldn't feel uncomfortable. And I think that's really hard for a lot of people to understand, so when they come to us and they see how much fun things can be, they can take a sigh of relief and be like, Oh, okay, it doesn't have to be crazy. Right, exactly. Thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast. It's going to be a long one, but I think it's so beneficial and I think a lot of people are going to have walk away just feeling better and feeling like they aren't alone in this, which is the entire goal of this podcast. So I love that. I love what you're doing. You're doing a great job. Thank you. I'm so excited I got to talk to you guys about this. And thank you for taking the time to just really share your story and your experience. And I hope others really benefit from this. Thank you for having us and I appreciate we don't always get to talk about this kind of stuff. So it's nice. not dog training for once. Yeah. Just like talk about our relationship and you know, how we got to where we are. And it's nice for us to remember too.'cause sometimes when you're in it, you have to, you know, peel the blinds back and be like, oh yeah, that's how we got here. It's kind of cool. Enjoy the journey. You enjoy. Exactly. You enjoy the journey, but you don't even get to look back and go, oh wait, that was like a hell of a journey. Yeah. Mm-Hmm.. Yeah. We worked our butts off and we're here and I think it's nice to remember that. So I appreciate you giving us that opportunity. And if you like what we're doing here on the Leashed Mind podcast and you want to help others find us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on social media, give us a rating wherever you got your podcasts, whether that's leaving a review on Apple or giving us a star rating on Spotify or just leaving a little R plus on our Facebook page. It's all appreciated. Thank you, and we will be back with another episode.