The Intersection of Joy, Spirituality, and Life's Purpose

Are you ready for an inspiring spiritual journey, one that could redefine your life's purpose? Our guest this week, a born teacher who's navigated a labyrinth of spiritual practices and career paths, lays bare her life’s journey and how she finally embraced her spiritual gifts. Raised in a strict Christian household, she had to learn to hide these gifts. But now, she openly leads a life centered around spirituality and serves as a voice for BIPOC in the spiritual community. 

The conversation moves fluidly from the dynamics between religion and spirituality to the concept of life's purpose. As the guest's life has been shaped by spirituality, she takes us through her variety of roles and experiences on her way to becoming a teacher, a role she sees as her true calling. We also delve into joy's unique individuality, where each person defines and owns their joy in different ways, and discuss our collective obligation to respect this individuality.

We close our discussion with a poignant conversation about the decolonization of language around spirituality and life purpose. Addressing the cultural bias and misconceptions surrounding the concept of life purpose, we discuss how the dominant culture often devalues periods of life without a specific purpose. We leave you with a promise - a promise to continue having these thought-provoking conversations around personal joy, spirituality, and life purpose, inviting you to join us on this enlightening journey.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to Motherland.

Speaker 2: 0:04

Welcome to Motherland.

Speaker 1: 0:28

So, isabelle, I have a question for you.

Speaker 2: 0:32

OK.

Speaker 1: 0:34

Do you think that your spirituality has helped you sort of find your life's purpose, or has it gotten in the way? Yes, no.

Speaker 2: 0:46

OK, you're right. All right, so I think this goes back. I think, ok, really quick, I'm like, yes, it's definitely helped me find my life's purpose, because I'm living my life's purpose based on spirituality, but, no, because I resisted it for long because of spirituality. So, yeah, like I think you know, I was raised in a Christian household and I attended a church that was very against what I'm going to call the gifts of the spirit, right? So what I do, and even though I've had my ability since I was six, I definitely pulled back a lot from them and hid them and hid them. I hid them for so many years, even though my family knew. I just kind of was like shh, you don't talk about it, it's hiding.

Speaker 2: 1:35

So I don't think I ever allowed myself to really follow it till later on in my life and then, even after that, it was like this slow sliding door of like I kind of like this I think this is what I meant to do. Oh, no, it's not, I'm going to step back. Oh, yes, it is Like there's a lot of back and forth so it hindered me from connecting to my life purpose when I could have done it a lot earlier. But now, absolutely not now. It's like it is my life purpose.

Speaker 1: 2:02

Right. So when you started to open up to it and you said that spirituality got in the way, like, tell me about that.

Speaker 2: 2:16

OK, I'm laughing because you guys have to understand, listeners don't know when I talk. This is going to make me sound schizophrenic. Right now, when I talk, I can hear my guides answering for me and I'm always like, ok, wait, I want to answer the question. So I can hear my guides literally like, let me, let us answer that. And I'm like, well, no, I want to.

Speaker 2: 2:37

So if you're talking about the part of my life, let's say, right, like I'm in the church I'm teaching the Bible, I'm doing all of that. That was the part of me that was like that spiritual part, that religion. So I guess not necessarily spirituality, but the that was going to be my follow up, religion got in the way of me seeing spirituality in my life purpose. Ok, spirituality blocked me from my life purpose because of the connotations that I put or was taught on spirituality. So then that kind of was my own thing that I had to get over. But I don't think it necessarily blocked my life purpose, because I think once I fully understood it I was just like here we go, I'm heading. So I think I think that's the better terminology was religion blocked it, spirituality necessarily?

Speaker 1: 3:24

And is your spirituality, your religion.

Speaker 2: 3:26

Yeah, but no, because how do you guys want to? That's a good question, I know I'm like wow, that's a really good question. I'm like well, how would you define religion, that?

Speaker 1: 3:39

is actually. That was going to be my next question.

Speaker 2: 3:43

How would you define religion?

Speaker 1: 3:46

I would say it was a specific doctrine that people follow. That's what I would think it would be too. Are you going to look up the Oxford English?

Speaker 2: 3:59

definition OK, let's see what it says. What is Oxford dictionary? Ok. What does the Google say?

Speaker 1: 4:07

It says. Oed says the belief and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a god or gods.

Speaker 2: 4:23

But no.

Speaker 1: 4:24

And then a second definition a particular system of faith and worship. And then a third is a pursuit or interest to which someone describes supreme importance. I don't like any of those definitions.

Speaker 2: 4:41

I don't OK, here's near the left.

Speaker 1: 4:44

OK, go ahead. A personal, set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes. I hate when they use the word inside the definition their service or worship or of God or the supernatural commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance, a cause, principle or system of beliefs held with ardor and faith.

Speaker 2: 5:06

So here's what I'm getting from what you're reading Is that, no matter what definition you're meaning, it's a specific way of worshiping. Whatever it is you're choosing to worship, yeah, it's a way of doing things and I don't think spirituality is a specific way. I always tell people I'm like it's a way of what works for you, it's a way of what works for you, and sometimes it'll flow a certain way and then you're like wait, that's not the way I flow anymore. Let me switch my flow up. So I don't think that spirituality is necessarily my religion. It's my practice. I think that's a little different. Like it's my practice and it's what I choose. I know this came up before in a conversation. I mean, I do believe in God. That's what I call my higher power, but I also don't think you have to call God God, like I don't think that's the same.

Speaker 1: 5:51

Yeah, I don't say God, I think that's where I was taught. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:56

But again, like I said, I don't think they need a name. I say creator a lot more than God. I say creator because it just makes sense to me. Creator makes sense to me more Universe. I say universe, but no, I don't think it's my religion because I like what I'm hearing right now from spirit. I don't think it's my religion because I don't worship myself and it's ultimately. You are creator, you are divine.

Speaker 1: 6:26

That is a really. I need you to say that again because I really like that quote.

Speaker 2: 6:31

I don't think it's a religion because I don't worship myself.

Speaker 1: 6:36

Yeah, and I think I see universe because of also the way that I was raised, which was with an atheist who was adamant that there was no God. So I think for me, saying God for a long time felt like I was going against my family and somehow universe became a comfortable way of me saying that. But I still believe that it's a force, there's a force, there's a universal force that completely believe that.

Speaker 2: 7:09

No, I definitely believe that. I definitely believe that it's interesting because, being and doing my job as a medium, I learned that, like when you expand above, you don't see a man sitting on a throne, like you don't see, right, you have this, this way of just expansion, right? Like I am now just a part of all of this. So I don't think, like I said, I just I think creators just easier, or universe is easier, that's for me. Do you think spirituality is kind of got in your way of your life purpose Um?

Speaker 1: 7:42

no, I think spirituality saved my life.

Speaker 1: 7:50

I think that when I walked away from my old career, I was spiritually bankrupt, um, and I think that practicing yoga was like my entry point, like when I would practice at a studio.

Speaker 1: 8:07

I think it's one thing I do miss about going to my old yoga studio, where I used to live, because I would call yoga on Sunday was like my church, like it felt holy to me, um, going to this place at the same time on Sundays and with the people that I was with, it was, you know, we all kind of acknowledged each other and there was something I think sacred in that, um, but I think it's, I think it saved me because, um, I don't think I had, I think I was sort of floating Um, and I had always been a seeker as a kid. You know I've talked about how I was always very curious and I think because I I didn't have anything around me, I always felt kind of untethered, um, and just sort of off, and so when I found it, I I think I got really connected to you know, um, my purpose and who I am, or reconnected or re remembering you know what was always already there.

Speaker 2: 9:05

Yeah. So I'm like, how would it hinder somebody, do you think?

Speaker 1: 9:11

I think um it could hinder them, because then we could talk about spiritual bypassing Right.

Speaker 2: 9:18

That's exactly where my mind was going, because I was like the only thing that I'm like how would spiritual hero would be? The fact is the spiritual bypassing which you've kind of already said with negative motions or you know, um, not wanting to embrace fear, or whatever it is that may come up for you.

Speaker 1: 9:35

Or you know, um, we haven't talked about this or sort of using it to isolate yourself, I think, from life and other people. Like cutting people out, maybe, who should be in your life or who are, you know, helpful or who aren't harmful in your life, but because they don't practice what you do right, do you not have them in your life. So I think maybe it could get in the way of that. Or, if it stops you from different experiences, that could really be um powerful for you. Yeah, and you're probably to get in the way.

Speaker 2: 10:14

I get that. I mean, I think I look at mine. Mine's kind of interesting. I'm like looking around because I'm thinking, but it's like I look at my life and like doing this, Like this is what I do, so it's kind of hard for it to be like, does it hinder you? I'm like no, it doesn't. But I also work with a lot of individuals that want to do what I do, you know, but they don't do it because they're worried about all the other worries that come with it Money. I don't know what people are going to say or what people are going to think how it's going to look afterwards. You know what I mean. Um, yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:46

Wait, I think it did get in the way of what I did, and I think that's why I don't do it anymore with Rikers.

Speaker 2: 10:54

Why.

Speaker 1: 10:55

Um, I don't and I think, but I think it was it got in the way, but in a way that was helpful.

Speaker 2: 11:01

Okay.

Speaker 1: 11:01

Or I don't do what I do anymore. I think I was on. You know my path and my practice. You know I don't call I don't call myself a Buddhist because I'm not but Buddhist teachings are important, yogic teachings are important. Listening to the universe has become important and I think for a long time I used to use all of that as sort of support for me to do the work that I was doing, going inside, you know, one of the most notorious jails in the country, but then, um, that sort of was my guiding force, but then no more than I practiced and that I was really opening up to what I was doing. I felt like I couldn't keep doing that and and have my practice, because by going in I was supporting the system. So the same thing that I was using to support the work that I was doing actually stopped me from doing the work that I was doing because I couldn't uphold it anymore.

Speaker 2: 11:56

Interesting yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:57

It's the very thing that I'm trying to say. What do you mean you?

Speaker 2: 12:00

couldn't uphold it. Why couldn't you uphold it anymore?

Speaker 1: 12:03

Because I felt like I was making the system palatable for people. People would hear oh, you teach yoga and meditation at Rikers, that's really cool. It's not really cool. Rikers should not exist. It should be completely burned down to the ground. So when people hear that, it allows them to think well, maybe it's not so bad, and I don't want anybody to ever think that I felt like I was contributing to the problem rather than stepping away.

Speaker 2: 12:34

But don't you think that, like on a side note, just saying this don't you think that correctional facilities should help to grow people rather than keep them?

Speaker 1: 12:42

still, no, I don't think correctional facilities should exist the way that they are. So no, because correctional facilities were designed from slave patrols, I do. So you can't reform that if that's the foundation, so it has to be completely reimagined. Well, yes to that. Yes to that, I do agree with that. So here's the other thing. I don't think that people shouldn't. I think that people should still do what I did, like. The person who has my job now is amazing. I know her, we're really good friends. I'm really glad that she's there. It was something that I could no longer do, but it's not a judgment on her, because she does it and she's the person who should be doing it. And I think I should have been the person who was doing it at the time too. But I think, as I evolved, my spiritual practice was like you can't do this anymore, like you can't do this and be on your path, and that's what happened, but don't you think that you're on your path now, though?

Speaker 1: 13:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:42

So then it goes back to the fact that did it really? Did it really take you off path? Because you're on your path now, Right?

Speaker 1: 13:48

I think it changed. It maybe changed my path. Yeah, exactly, if I wanted to keep that position and sort of grow, then, yes, it would have hindered it, but I think I needed to do what I needed to do. I don't think I could have, I could be writing my book as freely as I'm writing it If I was there too. I couldn't, I don't think I could feel like I could say the things that I could say. You know, and people were like watching my social media accounts and all those kinds of things that part of me would say I don't care, and I still said a lot that I probably quote unquote shouldn't have according to like my contract. But yeah, I think there was a, there's a freedom that I feel like I have now Right, and I think my spirit, my spirituality, freed me to do that.

Speaker 2: 14:42

I think a good part of this that I'm actually getting from this conversation is those that even in this line of work or in whatever work, maybe this is your life purpose. Maybe you're not a spiritual teacher but you're a therapist or you're serving some other kind of career role that is your life purpose but that you know this is my life purpose, but maybe there's not like a contentment factor in it. Or you're feeling like we kind of talked in the last episode about you know allowing the seasons to change that. How do you? I just hadn't, I lost it. But basically, like in your life purpose, it changes, sometimes even in the context of what you're doing. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 15:19

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 15:20

So it's like you're still in very much your life purpose, as I think Rikers was very much. Your life purpose is just the way that you're showing up and serving is completely different now.

Speaker 1: 15:27

It's completely different and I think that's because of my practice. I think my spirituality directly impacted that. Yeah, 100%. I do wonder if I would have been a better leader not better if I would have been a more compassionate leader if I had had my spiritual practice in my old career. I have had to nurse and heal some regret over that, because I was young and a woman and black and I think I felt like I had to act a certain way in order to command respect and I wasn't as compassionate as I am now and I you know I've had to forgive myself for that, but I wonder if that could have helped me actually in some ways with my teens, but I don't think it would have helped me get promoted.

Speaker 2: 16:22

You're bringing up so many different aspects right now because, like, I didn't even think about all these little things are coming up because I recently was having this conversation with somebody. So in my own life, purpose right, and what I do I mean we all kind of know what I do, but what I've had a realization in the last couple of days is the voice that I've taken on for the community and it's like people are interviewing me more people want to interview me more voice on talk about the BIPOC, talk about the BIPOC unity and spiritual.

Speaker 2: 16:53

And I think a lot of times, especially in my position where I've had to have my own thought process, is this a hindrance to my career? Like, could this be a hindrance in the voice that I'm taking on right, because I'm being such a major I'm going to be, because I know the direction I'm going and it's creating growth in that, which I know is something passionate to my heart that definitely needs to be spoken about and it needs to be prevalent. But yeah, you may. Just I don't know you made me kind of look at it as, like you face some of these things, like I kind of was listening to you and I'm like how spiritual I affected your life purpose and I'm like, well, no, because I'm making the choices that are needed to make. But if I was to choose different, saying you know I want love all, fit in this bubble. I do love all, but you know what I mean Fit in this bubble, provide positive feedback. Only only look at the positive side of things Then it definitely would affect my life purpose.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Yeah, and I think it's also I guess too, it's staying true to your lane of what your spirituality is for, because you know I'm all for. I don't necessarily like people, but I do love them, and I think that is a big part of my practice. You know, I mean people are jerks, I mean I don't love you, but you know a lot of people are really not cool and I think, honestly, working at Riker has really opened me up to that, like I love a lot of people who I do not like, and I think that's a big practice for me, and I wish I had had that in my other role as a retail leader. I think that would have served me a little bit differently. I don't think my compassion would have helped me, to be honest with you, which is sad. I had to lack a lot of compassion in order to make some decisions that I had to make, and I think when I couldn't make them anymore, that's when I knew it was time to leave.

Speaker 2: 19:00

Well, I think anything with, like the way I live my life now would have definitely changed any of my past roles or careers that I you know that I was in but doing my line of work like it's always been on my like, I said it was always with something I wanted to do. When I finally made the choice that was on the side, I just kind of, like I said, kept it hidden and then I would quit a job to like, let me go pursue this, I'd quit another job, pursue this, and it always might be my go back to until I was like, okay, I'm in.

Speaker 1: 19:26

Wow, but what are the other things that you did before you were doing this full time?

Speaker 2: 19:32

Well, before I had children. I mean, you know, I actually I've always worked like I moved out of the house very, very young. Like my senior year I moved out, I lived with my sister, lived on my own. I carried three jobs while in high school, wow. So I worked at the small business development center, Right, and that was a really great job. And then I worked at retail jobs. So I did retail off and on for years and then I ended up becoming a corporate trainer by the time I was pregnant with my son. Great job. I founded my actual position. I created it. I ran it for a big company. It was great, you know, 20 years old corporate trainer, and they wanted me to travel the world and I had a kid and I was like this is before. We could do remote, obviously, right, you know, no, I can't do it. And actually the lady that took over my job now is like CEO of the company.

Speaker 2: 20:25

But I have to say that was a different life. That was a different life. I mean I made so much money Like you're talking six digits in 1999. Like do you know how much money that was back then? Like that's insane, anyways. So I went from that and then I did.

Speaker 2: 20:44

I've done everything web developer, computer programmer. Yeah, I'm trying to think what else I've done Shoe sales, preschool teacher, daycare worker. Preschool teaching now is my go-to, that I pretty much will fall back on, just cause I love kids, yeah, makes sense now cause I'm a teacher. Anyways, I look at myself as, and then that's this yeah, and I've had my feet in like all the waters, yeah, so those are what I've done, wow. But I can look at my path and see how it's always kind of been back to teaching. Teaching, I mean, corporate trainer was a teacher, preschool teacher was a teacher. Like you know, everything has been like in a teaching role, which it's funny cause you made a comment, like I remember, one time my mentor was like you're meant to be a teacher and spiritual teacher.

Speaker 2: 21:31

I was so mad at her Wow, so mad at her for saying that. Why are you mad? I think it wasn't thinking. It was egotistical of me to want that. I thought in my own head, there you go, how spirituality effected it. I thought the belief that you as a teacher was ego. Huh, I was like, no, that's too equal ego, my ego doesn't need that. Wow, isn't that interesting. So there you are. I resisted becoming my own practice and being my spiritual teacher because spirituality teaches not to have the ego into it, and I believe that was my ego, so I resisted it for years because of that.

Speaker 1: 22:13

So, yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:15

Then I realized it wasn't my ego, but I thought it was, and so I didn't want to step into anything, because who am I to be seen? Who am I? And that wasn't a worth thing. That was more of like ego being afraid of ego, or being afraid of, like you know, thinking it was. Like I was wrong to think that I could do this, so I held myself back.

Speaker 2: 22:38

So I think that's one of those things that you look at. You know that people don't make choices, because I think now, as I'm headless in this conversation, you think like, oh, people want to follow their life purpose, but for those of us that, like I'm going to call them the little baby spirituals, because I don't know what else name to give them, but in the sense of, like you know, oh, I got to wait for it to flow to me, or, oh, it's too much of an ego to think that I could do this, or, you know, I think I thought that too, you know different little things of it then definitely think that your spirituality might be holding you back from actually embracing what is rightfully yours to embrace.

Speaker 1: 23:15

Yeah, yeah, I've had a lot of struggle. Hang on. I think my dog unplugged my computer. She's lying next to me and she laid on the cord. I think. I thought, well, who am I to to talk about spiritual? Yeah, I'm not. I'm not special. Yeah, I'm special. I used to get hung up on education and certification too. That was like a big thing. Am I qualified?

Speaker 2: 23:50

Well, that's a good point, because I think a lot of people do get hung up on certifications and oh, I'm certified or you know whatever it is, and it's like, okay, I don't think that means anything, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:05

Yeah, there's a big debate about that in the yoga world. You know, people have there's a 200 hour yoga teacher training and there's like yoga alliance, which is this organization that sort of validates you as a yoga teacher, but they don't do anything. They do nothing for yoga teachers. There's no support whatsoever. But all of these yoga studios all across the country are like, well, you are registered yoga teacher with yoga alliance, well, for what? And you know, and you have people who come from lineages of yoga teachers from like India who aren't qualified to teach yoga here because they didn't do some 200 hour training when it's been in their lineage forever. You know, it's, it's you. I think you have to ask yourself, when you're talking about certifications for certain things, who's certifying and why are they certifying and what are they certifying for? What are they trying to get?

Speaker 2: 24:59

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. You see some crazy certifications out there that I'm just like you don't need to cert for that or you don't need to cert for this, yeah like.

Speaker 1: 25:08

I did a training for yoga for cancer where it was heavily science based and I learned all about cancer and that was really important to know, like the physiological and scientific impact that cancer had on cells, and I could understand why these practices were helpful. That made a lot of sense to me. That was a hundred hours and that was well worth it.

Speaker 2: 25:31

I don't think I've taken any crazy ones. I mean I've taken Theta, I've taken I've taken Reiki, I've taken my life coaching, my health coaching, but those I those were relevant, like those actually helped me. I think I think my life coaching certification really helped me to learn how to listen to people better than I was doing before it. So I think I learned how to listen to people and and connect, like pick the conversations apart into okay, I can see where we need to direct this or where the issues are laying. So I think they've all been really beneficial. I don't know, I follow my gut and stuff and I'm like you don't need that, you don't need that.

Speaker 1: 26:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:14

I don't know, but I think there's a lot of crazy things out there that I see and I'm just like you don't need to be certified. I think somebody was like who it was the other day I remember watching I'm like she's certifying and connecting to your higher self, like it was like something stupid. I was like what the heck? Like, how's that a cert? Like it was just something weird like that, and I was, yeah, what does it make sense to me?

Speaker 1: 26:35

like that's when you're wondering is this just really connected with capitalism or are you trying to make some right yeah?

Speaker 2: 26:39

and I'm like who told you that you could qualify same question a cert for this? And like what does your cert get me?

Speaker 1: 26:49

That's where I think we get really heavy on, you know. I think that's dominant culture being really heavy on the subject of worshiping you know a degree or the written word and all of these things and ways that you know. The wisdom that I think I have gained over the past, you know 12-15 years that I've sort of been on this path has been worth so much more than the tons of trainings that I did before in my other life and I did some really incredible trainings you know that were really worthwhile.

Speaker 1: 27:27

But there is nothing that the wisdom of working at Rikers I mean that was like a doctorate, yeah, and spirituality in life, right.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Okay, so I have a question for you do you think that everybody has a life purpose and do you think that we're all meant to find our life purpose?

Speaker 1: 27:49

You know, I guess, I guess we we didn't even ask this question, and I think this is a good one like, what is a life purpose? Anyway, you know, like, is it a path? You know, if you were talking about Dharma, right, like if we're talking about definition of Dharma, that is, you know it's a path, and I think sometimes we hear path and we think this lofty goal and I think that's getting caught up sort of in capitalism in our society, that it has to be like oh, my life purpose is to do X, y and Z, and that's really grandiose, when your life purpose could be, you know, to live a satisfying life that causes the least amount of harm.

Speaker 2: 28:26

Right, I had this time, that's that's for I was having a life purpose. This guy was like, what do you do? And I told him what I did and then he was like, oh well, that's awesome, I just went for the nine to five, whatever. And I was like, yeah, but you're enjoying your life right outside of work. And he goes, yeah, and I go, maybe that's exactly what you need to be doing. Like it doesn't have to be your sole jobs purpose. Like I don't think that your life purpose has to be your job.

Speaker 1: 28:52

Like when everybody talks about past lives and everybody claims that they were like a king or a queen not everybody could have been royalty like some of us were just living our lives out here, right.

Speaker 2: 29:00

Oh, I've seen some past lives where I was not a king.

Speaker 1: 29:04

I was like you know, like I think there's this, this sense of you know. Yeah, everything has to be really grand, and I think it's really grand. I think it's a big deal that I cause less harm in the world than I did before I started doing all of this work by myself, and that's huge.

Speaker 2: 29:24

It is Well. You use the word path. What path? That's the thing, that's my question.

Speaker 1: 29:32

I think path for me is sort of just living my life, trying not to cause harm, and I think it's a journey. I think I consider sort of my life now is it like a journey that I'm on. It's not going anywhere, you know it's, it's going to when I transition, you know, out of here and I think it's um. So yeah, I think path is just another way to save life for me.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Okay, I'm asking spirit Mike is path. I said are we always in the same path? I was asking spirit. Spirit said no, you're not always on the same path. Your path changes.

Speaker 1: 30:04

Yes, it's not, it's not. It's not like, it's not like the other road by any stretch of the imagination. It is very sort of amorphous and you know it goes where it goes. It's not. Yeah, I don't mean linear, I don't mean it it's. It goes in a direction that when I say path, I could mean up or down, or side or back or front, or yesterday or tomorrow, or you know, or now.

Speaker 2: 30:33

So and I think the same to say about purpose. I don't think your purpose is always the same. I think your Changes. I can hear spirit. I'm actually very intrigued with what I'm hearing. I kind of want to dive in with them. But they're saying I know how do you guys want to wear this? They're saying an average person will have at least three different Purposes within their life purpose within a time. So, like you live three different. They're saying path per se or purposes in your lifetime. It doesn't remain the same. It can't remain the same. Like that goes back into what we're talking about. It can't remain the same. It's going to change. It's gonna you're gonna navigate it in different directions.

Speaker 2: 31:10

I feel that one of the things they're saying, though, however, is there will always be a commonality between Between your purpose. You're gonna always see a commonality. How you show up for that, I think, varies. You know it varies. Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 2: 31:27

I'm kind of having my own reflection of my life right now because, as I'm saying this, they're like one of the commonalities, and I've never you, I know you use joy lot. I don't use that word joy often. I mean I understand it and I mean it, but they said one of the commonalities for you and they said, for many obviously is the experience of Joy within their life. Like that is something that you guys are meant to experience as part of your human experience. So that's often a commonality in whatever purpose that you choose.

Speaker 2: 31:54

Is the joy in it when the joy dies down, or you're like dims and it's time to renegot. They're saying renegotiate the direction that you want to choose to go in, to continue that, that part of it. But you're gonna, they're saying for me right now, so I'm just channeling. They're like you're gonna experience very many different Types of joy in that sense, right, they're like you're gonna have joy in your job, you're gonna have joy in your relationships, you're gonna have joy in your aloneness, like there's gonna be so much different types of this, but you're gonna find that there's always a commonality in your life, no matter what direction that you're moving in.

Speaker 1: 32:31

Yeah, and I think I think for me too, because I think joy is definitely a part of my path and I think I Don't want to say I have a completely different, different definition of joy than other people do. But when I say joy I really mean about embracing the totality of our experience, that I think that I Joy is wholeness for me and I think it's, I think maybe I define it that way because I have felt so fractured For so much of my life. I felt very fractured and very separate from different communities or things. So to find myself standing and wholeness and feeling myself feel every part of myself was like a Revelation, a relief, a Way to relax into, you know, into life.

Speaker 2: 33:26

That's funny because you're talking and I said, well, what's joy to me? And I heard joys, joys mine, like that's the way I think I would define joy. If them and like I don't really know how to put words in that. But if you're like what is joy to you and like it's mine, like that's mine, it's not. My joy is not, doesn't have to be your joy, your joy doesn't have to be like but my joy is mine, like that that's the thing I can say. It's something that I feel.

Speaker 2: 33:49

I think I Don't know how to word it even they're just like it's something within you that that's yours, it's your, it's your feeling inside you of that, whatever, that is that moment which I, this is wholeness, like you said, because that's that's mine, but it's mine. It's not for me to necessarily have to reflect out Right, interesting, I know that's not me talking, by the way that spirit, because I would have never said that sentence, I would have never thought to say joy is not necessarily, I don't necessarily have to reflect that out. I'm like wow, what does that even mean? I know what it means, but I'm just like here at it and I'm like I've never yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:26

No, because our obviously my human mind set is but joy is meant to be shared and reflected out, and I'm like spirits, like having a whole conversation. They're like, not necessarily, no, no, why they're like. Why? Who told you that it had to be shared? I was like that is right. Who did tell us we had to share it? I?

Speaker 1: 34:47

Don't think joy has to be. I don't think it has to be shared, and I think I think we need to respect people's ability to own their own joy, but I don't think that has to be shared.

Speaker 2: 34:58

Yeah, I don't think either, but everybody, I think.

Speaker 1: 35:02

I think my connection with other people is not to cause harm to them. That is my connection with the collective. I Need to cause the least amount of harm. Yeah, that's my obligation.

Speaker 2: 35:19

Everybody's part of everybody's purpose is somehow just to live and find their joy in their own life, in whatever way that may look, whether it's their job or outside of work.

Speaker 1: 35:27

No I don't know, I don't. Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2: 35:31

I don't know, I Don't think it is because I just I just asked that question to you and spirit goes. No, because some people's like don't.

Speaker 1: 35:38

I do think our obligation to each other is around non harm and safety and respect and love. That I think. But I don't necessarily think that means joy. I Don't know, because I think that goes back to like the liking people not liking people but loving them thing, right, like, yeah, we, there's a connection we have.

Speaker 1: 35:59

I Need to respect your ability to say like your joy is yours, yeah, that's yours. Yeah, I'm sure I don't, I don't want it and you shouldn't give it to me and I Will protect that for you because that's, I think, my obligation as a person in this body who has a consciousness, right, I Need to protect that for you. I think that's really, I think that's important. I don't think we have that conversation enough, like in the spiritual world. I think it's always around in the white spiritual world, dominant cultural spiritual world. I think it's always around like Kumbaya and holding hands and sort of this, like blending into one another and all this stuff. And I don't, I don't, I don't believe that I'm saying that right now, I don't know I don't believe that either necessarily.

Speaker 2: 36:49

I mean that's a very big always. I mean I use the word to collective consciousness. I'll use that word often. But the collective consciousness, always tell people, doesn't mean that you have to do all of that. It may not act that you yourself are part of the collective, solely right, and you taking care of you is taking care of the.

Speaker 1: 37:07

Collect it percent, hundred percent. I think that's a by-park thing I gotta say.

Speaker 2: 37:12

I do our thought process of me just around that.

Speaker 1: 37:15

I do. I Don't hear this conversation a lot in other places. I don't. Yeah, it's always about Just the individual as the individual, and then there's sort of this blob Amorphous that you have to do what I say because you're a part of the group, but there's never a sense that you belong to you. I belong to me, I respect and I will protect your ability to be you.

Speaker 2: 37:42

Yeah, we are connected Beauty of it. I think that's beauty. I talked about this. That's why, like, people are like oh, you teach intuition different. I'm like yeah, because Mine is mine, what yours is yours, it's not. This whole way of doing things is one single way. No, that doesn't work and I think that's definitely a by-park. It has to be a by-park, I think, because if you really think about it, that's you know it's funny, it's almost today. I almost came on. I was like, let's talk about. I don't think we broke down the word, that's colonizing language I was just going to say.

Speaker 2: 38:13

I was just going to say that we've never really broke down that language. We've never actually broke down the language. That's exactly a topic I was going to talk about today. I remember thinking about this earlier and this just brings up the fact of. That's why the collective consciousness, or the word collective, is part of that language. It's where they wanted us to always be. I mean, we can go back so far, back right into destroying our villages and destroying our cities and throwing us in the slate, all these different things they did to break the mindset of. You are an individual, you have to think like the collective, like you. Literally, laws you know were put on place.

Speaker 1: 38:48

Except for them, because they were individuals right. So what was theirs was theirs, and then we had to fall under this umbrella of a group right.

Speaker 2: 38:57

Oh my gosh, go ahead tell you something, yes.

Speaker 1: 38:59

You know what I mean. I think there's this ability for people to say like well, I know I'm white, but I'm not a part of people who do that. But when something happens with a person, with a BIPOC person or a Black Indigenous person, you know, then it's like the whole group gets labeled, but it doesn't happen in the other way. I have this lady.

Speaker 2: 39:24

I mean, if they listened, blessed and sold. They were very sweet people. They were interviewing me to be a part of something, trying to keep it not so many words and throw them under the desk, and they were saying what they speak, like, how. I forget the wording they used, but basically they were calling themselves, like, how they want to speak for the voices not heard, but like they're like the minority, like, in a way, they're white, by the way, and they were saying how they speak for the voices, for the unheard voices of, like the LGBTQ community, which I, you know, whatever, and that that's something about the minority, or should? I thought of that.

Speaker 2: 40:02

I'm trying to word it right, because all that caught me was that this white person was saying that they were part of the minority because they were LGBTQ and that they wanted to speak on behalf of these voices. Don't give me that's a whole nother conversation, knowing they're not, because they're white and LGBTQ, we don't need to go there, but they go and they go. So what, whose voice do you speak of? Or, and I went. I literally looked at them like the, and I literally was like the BIPOC community, because spirituality has been so whitewashed, so I speak on behalf of my BIPOC community to understand that this is where I'm at. But I just thought it was so interesting because I'm like I was telling my son this and he goes they're the majority.

Speaker 1: 40:42

And I'm like, yes, Well, well, they're the dominant culture, but we are the global majority.

Speaker 2: 40:49

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, that's a better way of wording it.

Speaker 1: 40:53

Yeah, but it's interesting too, because I think there's also this idea and I think this goes back to your joy being yours and my joy being mine is there's this sense too, that when we use a term like black or indigenous or Latino or Latinx or however you want to identify yourself, that it's under this one monolithic experience, like it's all sort of the same, and I think one of the beautiful things about sort of the global majority is the varied experiences that we all have, being sort of who we are, that my version of blackness is not like my friend Nicole's version of blackness or my partner's version of blackness.

Speaker 1: 41:41

She's Caribbean and there's this beautiful sense of we can speak from this general place, that we know what's happened with colonization and all of that stuff. But what I would love for people who are a part of dominant culture, you know, in proximity to whiteness, to understand is that our experiences aren't monolithic, that they're varied, and I think it's really important that you understand that.

Speaker 2: 42:07

So this brings us back to the beginning conversation. Then, in regards to the word life purpose and the word purpose itself, yeah, has it been colonized? Yes, because we've been taught that we're supposed to have a purpose at all point in time.

Speaker 1: 42:22

Oh, I just thought that goes right back to productivity, that goes back to grind culture. Yes, that goes back to contributing to, you know, the gross national product. How much are you producing?

Speaker 2: 42:34

Yeah, so I think the answer really is in the sense that, when we were talking about our past conversation, there's going to be seasons of life where you just don't have a purpose, and that is completely and that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 42:47

And rest.

Speaker 2: 42:48

Yeah, and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 42:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:54

With the belief that you constantly have to be seeking some kind of purpose and have a purpose. Where did that mindset come from? Think about that for a second or two. Where was that ingrained and taught? I mean, we know where it was but, like you know, for those listening, like, no, not necessarily. I think there's moments in times you just don't have one, and that's okay, you're navigating, that's the season you're in yeah, beauty and that.

Speaker 1: 43:19

Yeah, there is beauty in that and we don't value it. Dominant culture doesn't value that.

Speaker 2: 43:25

No, no, absolutely not, absolutely not. They don't. I mean that's just a big no. No, yeah, because then you're doing nothing. And who are you to do nothing, my dog just sighed when you said that. She went I'm a dog and I can do nothing.

Speaker 1: 43:46

Like yes, this is my purpose.

Speaker 2: 43:52

I love that. I like how this like made the whole this really did and made its way back around.

Speaker 1: 43:59

Yeah, well, anything else, no, I was actually just saying to myself I wonder what people think about their purpose If they have one, if they need to have one, if they're rethinking the language around what's been colonized with language around spirituality to for themselves. If they're rethinking things I'd love to know.

Speaker 2: 44:20

I think that's something that maybe in another episode we need to talk about is some of the wording that we use that they don't necessarily understand what you know what. That is definitely a great next episode. Yeah, I don't think they know what, like some people are. Like, what does that mean colonization? Yeah, mean to de-asimilate, like what is all these words that you use? Yeah, okay, because I don't think people necessarily understand what it is.

Speaker 1: 44:42

I think, some. Yeah, I definitely. That's a great Okay.

Speaker 2: 44:45

Yeah, I think I had a listener or somebody write to me saying how spirituality for us as BIPOC people is just de-asimilating. That's all it is, and I was like pretty much, pretty much, and it's reclaiming, reclaiming.

Speaker 1: 45:04

Yeah, it's how people are remembering. I was listening to this really powerful interview on MPR yesterday, so much so I had moved my car. You know, I live in New York and we have alternate side parking, so I had to move my car and then I was listening to this interview and it was so good that I turned the car off, but I just sat in the car to listen to the rest of the interview. I could have come upstairs but I didn't. And it was this guy. His name is James McCray. He's a poet. His white grandparents stole him from his father, who was black, and they were white supremacists and raised him and he, yeah, he got away.

Speaker 1: 45:46

And Terry I think it was Terry Gross was asking him well, how are you sort of identifying with blackness now after having so many years of being told that blackness culturally was all of these terrible things? And he said it's taken time and he considers himself black and he calls himself, he considers himself to be a black man. And he said that specifically the whole idea of the blurred which is you know, for folks who are listening as a black nerd. He said blurred culture really helped him because it was like there was more than one way to be black and embracing that nerdy part of himself and I could be black and be that was really empowering. I'm thinking of that because it just really connects with this conversation. Like you know, claiming things for ourselves and how we identify for us is decolonizing and stepping away from that, and I think it's really empowering. I'm so glad that we get to. You know, talk about this every week.

Speaker 2: 46:50

I am, I am. Yeah, gosh, there's so much shit going on in my head and I think it's such a great conversation Just goes back into that whole thing that we said, like my, my joy is, my joy, my joy is mine, and, at the end of the day, you have to be in the way that everything has been listed to be.

Speaker 1: 47:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:08

So yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:09

All right, then Great conversation.

Speaker 2: 47:12

We'll talk again.

Speaker 1: 47:13

Bye, bye, bye.