Cryptoterrestrials: Are UFO and UAP from Planet Earth?

We start episode 10 off with a discussion of the recent UAP - UFO hearings and some of the statements made by David Grusch.  We then continue down the path of discussing the theories about where UAP come from, by exploring the idea that the UFO phenomenon comes from planet Earth.  This theory most often referred to as Crypto-terrestrials was popularized by author Mac Tonnies.  We found a number of trends in the Fortean Winds cases which make this theory really interesting to us...

Transcript

[Music] 
 hey everyone welcome to the Fortean Winds
 podcast this is bones and with us is Ram 
 X hey everybody hey Ram and in this 
 episode we are going to continue on the 
 origins of the UFO phenomenon concerning 
 the cryptoterrestrials 
 but uh before we enter that discussion 
 we want to talk about what happened in 
 DC last week yeah wow what a crazy week 
 with these hearings and David Rush 
 appeared on the floor along with two 
 pilots David fraver and Ryan Graves and 
 they all talked about some of their 
 experiences as well as David grush gave 
 more information about what he had 
 encountered in his intelligence analysis 
 and I thought the biggest surprise of 
 the hearing was that there was this 
 duplicate version of my Congress that 
 suddenly decided to behave like adults 
 right oh my gosh very bipartisan it's 
 very rare to see it was so refreshing to 
 see all these people who some of whom 
 have extreme views in that room and in 
 other circumstances have been all about 
 grabbing the spotlight and the uh the 
 news blips right but in that room 
 everyone was sober and serious and 
 carrying on the discussion insightfully 
 I I just couldn't have been more 
 impressed with the the group of people 
 that were there there was only one 
 moment where there was a representative 
 from North Carolina Miss Fox who who 
 kind of went off the rails and everyone 
 just ignored her which was great right I 
 don't think that Congress needs to be 
 going off the rails and making this 
 partisan right now because this is about 
 their 
 power this is about whether or not 
 Congress continues to have their power 
 and if the military intellig because the 
 military intelligence complex already 
 has a huge outsized interest in 
 lobbying you know good point right 
 through lobbying they can install people 
 that are favorable to them and John 
 McCain explained how some of this stuff 
 worked and he said NRA lobbyists will 
 come in and buy uh GOP Congressman sure 
 he said but that what you don't 
 understand is that they also buy the 
 other side they also buy Democratic 
 congressmen and on those days those 
 people don't show up for the vote so on 
 that day the NRA rigged both sides I 
 mean McCain was kind of giving up the 
 game that's to an extent how how things 
 work you know nothing's ever the single 
 answer to how government works but to a 
 big extent you know lobbying has an 
 outsized 
 interest now um I was following it a 
 little bit uh I heard some news that 
 there were supposed to be other speakers 
 all that didn't show up was that because 
 of pressuring from the Department of 
 Defense yeah at one point they the 
 number that Congressman Birch it it gave 
 was six and he said three of them had 
 backed out oh was that many okay geez 
 yeah and I think that at one point the 
 number was even bigger but that doesn't 
 mean that those people didn't give their 
 testimony in a classified setting we 
 really don't know how many of people 
 have given their information at this 
 point but true one thing we do know is 
 that the the government version of 
 LinkedIn uh was putting out some posts 
 from people from a from a security 
 organiz ation one of these perception 
 management 
 offices which is an American word for 
 propaganda we're all learning through 
 this process that and so this perception 
 management office was putting out 
 something basically telling people that 
 no matter what they couldn't be 
 protected as 
 whistleblowers in in my words you know 
 my I'm paraphrasing that but right um it 
 it leaked out and so they're trying to 
 suppress whistleblowers at this point 
 they're they're trying to stop leaks we 
 really don't know how big these programs 
 are and grush said something during that 
 hearing that he he unfortunately and I 
 don't think intentionally was cut off 
 about but Jared moscowitz had asked him 
 uh like how some of these programs work 
 and at one point he started to say 
 self-funding and I would be very curious 
 and I'm sure Congress is looking into 
 this but I'd be very curious to to hear 
 how are these programs self funding I 
 mean there are things like Iran Contra 
 affair there's things like I you know 
 where you're selling weapons this at 
 this point you're talking about UFO 
 technology yeah talking about private 
 money then right and he also said that 
 these these programs were being run by 
 government in 
 andout right government in andout super 
 important and I hope journalists will 
 grab on to that because that's what 
 that's kind of what that's what 
 lobbyists are in sense right most yeah 
 yeah so are these lobbyists but they can 
 also be technologists or scientists so 
 what they could be doing is giving 
 themselves the UFO technology to a 
 third- party contractor while they're in 
 government going back and working for 
 that third and this this kind of stuff 
 does happen but it it also happens in 
 the nature of the business but but this 
 is sounds like a flagrant abuse and they 
 they could be giving themselves this UFO 
 techn ology then going back out in the 
 public sector and and selling it and 
 lying to us about it right and no 
 oversight there's no oversight and 
 Leslie Keane is reporting that the cover 
 up is actually costing more than the 
 research itself so we're spending more 
 of our tax dollars lying to 
 ourselves about about this than actually 
 researching it 
 right these things I I like to do this 
 as a thought exercise let's just let's 
 just say that these things did turn out 
 to be peaceful space Bros and they said 
 hey we were just here to uh take away 
 some you know rare diseases you're 
 welcome now we're going to leave you 
 alone forever we would still have to 
 figure all of this part out this is the 
 the this part is is there's a a segment 
 of the military in intelligence 
 community that has run away from 
 Congress yeah right good point it's 
 pretty pretty scary PR scary and if 
 they're 
 self-funding you know you're what are we 
 dealing with here so these are the 
 questions I hope journalists dig into 
 these are the questions I hope Congress 
 really takes seriously and and it was 
 refreshing to see them act serious about 
 this because I think that they 
 understand this they they're saying look 
 if these end up being Russian and 
 Chinese drones all of this stuff is 
 still really bad right and grush brought 
 up people being killed in this you know 
 the 
 these things have nothing to do with 
 flying saucers these things have 
 everything with abuses of power right 
 well with that you know one of the one 
 of the things that grush said and I just 
 can't get it out of my mind is that uh 
 when he described the when there were it 
 was above 40,000 ft they described a 
 dark gray or Black Cube surrounded by a 
 clear sphere now I don't know if that 
 ties in with we want to go into the the 
 crypto terrestrial discussion but uh 
 that just that just sticks in my head I 
 can't stop envisioning that what what's 
 your take on that well we have an 
 article on the site that I think has a 
 pretty good theory on that which is so 
 that sphere that's surrounding it and 
 the fact that it looks like glass is 
 what we would see expect to see if 
 there's a vacuum surrounding the 
 object and that would explain by 
 whatever's in the the the craft isn't 
 being torn apart by the pressure that 
 you know being applied and it wouldn't 
 experience the same G Force as whatever 
 is outside of it so you know whatever's 
 in there could be sipping a cup of tea 
 while it's doing 30,000 miles hour right 
 right so uh that that that's that I 
 think that's the going theory about the 
 sphere and then therefore that like in 
 that case that object is not 
 aerodynamic right so that object could 
 be whatever shape you want it to be in 
 that case and maybe in the case of these 
 aerodynamic objects the same 
 means of propulsion is being generated 
 but those aerodynamic looks are are for 
 a different reason and it could be 
 because they're adapted to certain 
 pressures pressures of outer space or 
 pressures from underwat right deep sea 
 and that W that goes into our crypto 
 terrestrial right I found a I found a 
 seg there you go 
 Segway so uh yeah aquatic is is Falls 
 right in so crypto terrestrial what what 
 are we talking about here we're talking 
 about the idea that this is a species 
 that is from 
 here right and you and I had to discuss 
 this prior to this episode and we had to 
 go okay are we going to include any sort 
 of interdimensional in this and and I 
 think we decided that if we if you do 
 that it gets really fuzzy yep so we're 
 going to say this is some other physical 
 species that is maybe similar to us in 
 some 
 way that lives alongside of us and has 
 for time immemorial and there's a book 
 about this which I think is probably the 
 best work on the subject and that's M 
 Ton's the cryptoterrestrials where the 
 theory tends to to derive its name yeah 
 definitely I would say that's on my top 
 five books of phenomenon related 
 literature yeah it's superbly written 
 love that book 
 it's intelligently written and what I 
 like about T's and we'll get into ke 
 later but what I like about tonies is 
 that he had the same view as Keel that 
 you can't form a definite opinion about 
 what this phenomenon is did you get that 
 sense from him yeah for sure you know 
 the whole the whole book is more like a 
 discussion of ideas and uh and he's he 
 doesn't turn away from anything that may 
 that may uh contradict any of his 
 theories you know he he basically says 
 because the more perspective we get on 
 the topic the better great point I I 
 think he was a big fan of not cherry 
 picking data and we see a lot of that in 
 the UFO research Community where if if 
 you don't like it you just throw it out 
 you say this case never happened right 
 if you think they're all this species 
 and that species then and they didn't 
 show up looking like that species you go 
 that case never happened or it was oh 
 sure this other species that was 
 disguised itself like this you know I 
 mean people have gotten really dramatic 
 with the the soap opera that's going on 
 around us but uh yeah you you see that 
 in the Academia I mean especially like 
 in the fields like archaeology when uh a 
 new dig finds something that can destroy 
 a timeline that someone has been 
 researching and been published multiple 
 times and suddenly a new something new 
 comes up and they just completely deny 
 it because will destroy their past work 
 oh yeah in history all the time there's 
 such a resistance to change cuz you go 
 oh gosh this is a foundational change 
 right I think the best example of that 
 and this kind of falls into the C crypto 
 terrestrial uh study which is you know 
 how long back does civilization 
 go right and for many years and maybe 
 even today you'll still find many people 
 who who say Mesopotamian Sumer well 
 there's good black aepe and turkey and 
 that's 9,000 years old on the top level 
 it's built on top of other layers we 
 don't even know how many layers it goes 
 down and we don't even know how old that 
 site is right right so if you consider 
 things like structure and architecture 
 you know I don't think that they've 
 confirmed that there's been agriculture 
 at G tape yet but it's seems to me like 
 they had to eat something um they were 
 there for a long time but well that's 
 the disruptive part about it I think is 
 because it's one of the first 
 settlements that doesn't have any 
 remnants of Agriculture that's 
 disruptive totally and then you have to 
 explain what happened in between 9,000 
 BC and 6,000 BC at 
 least right so this concept of how back 
 how how far back our civilization goes 
 the answer is we don't know and and it's 
 good to it's good for us it's not good 
 for us to set limits there I think right 
 academically that's just my opinion it's 
 it's not good for us to say yeah we 
 definitely started okay we started 
 12,000 years ago we have no idea right 
 and so we don't know what came before us 
 and that's that's a big part of the 
 crypto terrestrial hypothesis is well 
 this may be a species that predated us 
 or it may maybe a civilization that 
 occurred before us right and if that 
 Civilization occurred before us they may 
 be coming here from the 
 past or they may be still 
 here right and who knows how long they 
 live when these ideas first get 
 mentioned they sound a little crazy and 
 I think tn's mentions that in the book 
 he's like H you know it sounds sounds 
 like you're saying it bunch of cave 
 people are popping out and you know nipp 
 acting like aliens right but he brings 
 up some pretty convincing arguments that 
 there's something here and I would point 
 to things in our research as well as 
 what Tes brings up and in in our 
 research I'll start which is 
 frequency they're here all the time yeah 
 as I like to say in the website they're 
 either from here or they should be 
 paying taxes because they're here all 
 the time right I would also point out 
 that when they're seen in space 
 presumably some cases have been reported 
 by astronauts and those are difficult to 
 confirm because of ndas and whatnot but 
 there's there's a good deal of evidence 
 that astronauts have seen some things in 
 space and when they're seen in space 
 they're seen in near orbit if they were 
 seen on the moon that's that's a hop 
 skip and a jump for these things they 
 don't they don't seem to they don't seem 
 to be bothered by by pressure right so 
 and they go 40,000 M an hour going to 
 the Moon is no big 
 deal so this could be a civilization 
 that lives here or is from here and has 
 branched out and is going out there in 
 the 
 galaxy right there's another theory I'll 
 bring up this is a wild thought but 
 there there's a theory called a dark 
 Forest which is that there's always 
 something bigger out there and that 
 would explain why whatever is here keeps 
 quiet because we're just a bunch of dumb 
 monkeys and if something else comes by 
 that's scarier than whatever is 
 bothering us and if we start talking 
 about it whatever else will know it's 
 here interesting Theory it does sort of 
 fit the 
 facts I don't think we've heard from 
 these things so in an honest way so we 
 would have no way of knowing without 
 talking to him 
 [Music] 
 [Music] 
 okay so what if it was just another 
 human 
 civilization that came here and was just 
 like 
 us yeah that's a like a I think one of 
 the concepts is a breakaway civilization 
 so break right there was a human 
 civilization that that was here 
 previously and they figured out like we 
 had discussed on previous podcast maybe 
 they figured out and it does look like 
 this that they figured out some sort of 
 fundamental force that we haven't like 
 we fig figured out electricity they 
 figured out something else 
 and then that informed their technology 
 they didn't need wires they didn't need 
 combustion because that would inform 
 their technology in which case in some 
 ways they wouldn't be as advanced as us 
 it wouldn't have to be maybe they would 
 be capable of being but you know would 
 require being going to our schools Etc 
 so is that possible based on the 
 evidence and the Trends we saw yes I 
 think it is 
 yeah it it is possible because there's 
 something and this is what I would say 
 is a trend that both T's noted and that 
 we note is all over the place and we 
 don't know what to do with it yet 
 because we we end up seeing some 
 interdimensional stuff happening but we 
 don't know what to do with this piece of 
 information but it's always present and 
 this is why we can't cherry-pick data 
 because it's sort of violates everything 
 else that we've talked about and that's 
 that this phenomenon interacts with us 
 on a very human 
 level with a very human 
 understanding there's an example uh that 
 I would bring up from Skinwalker Ranch 
 where it hid these bulls that the the 
 the ranchers thought was their prize 
 Bulls it hid them in this tiny little 
 trailer because they had just said 
 earlier that day that if the Bulls were 
 gone that they would feel like they'd 
 lose the ranch right so it was messing 
 with them it didn't kill the Bulls they 
 found the Bulls in a trance in the 
 trailer but it was messing with them 
 right and we found a number of cases 
 like this where you know there's a 
 there's a an alien abduction case called 
 Carl Higson where there's a lot of 
 evidence and he was dropped off miles 
 away from his 
 truck supposedly they flew him thousands 
 of miles away in the galaxy and he 
 dropped off miles away truck like it 
 sounds like humans being jerks right 
 right pranksters know pranksters I guess 
 you can call it pranksters but there's a 
 there's a there's a certain meanness 
 right there's a certain almost 
 malevolence to it where it doesn't cross 
 the line into killing you know except in 
 very rare instances where we we did find 
 some instances where I would say 
 humans look like they had been killed by 
 the 
 phenomenon and not just radiation like 
 actual 
 mutilation so um and then there's only a 
 couple that we found that were I think 
 difficult to explain we haven't even 
 done a write up on those yet but that 
 it's there and I think Rush has maybe 
 mentioned some of some of that or 
 something to that 
 effect so 
 characterize all of that as being 
 different factions too of a of a 
 whatever species even an 
 extraterrestrial species or a crypt 
 terrestrial species where there may be 
 different factions and they feel 
 differently about our species right and 
 some sort of treaty is in place that 
 keeps them from going to war you know as 
 long as they don't violate it too much 
 and that's why it only gets violated 
 occasionally that makes a lot of sense 
 and it actually makes a lot of sense 
 with our religious folklore that's a 
 that's a prevalent story in not just the 
 Christian Bible but a number of 
 religious texts know two sides and 
 usually we Define good as someone who is 
 good towards us good towards each other 
 right good good towards humans so you 
 know the good could be this one faction 
 that that is protective of humanity and 
 the other is destructive right so that's 
 in that's an interesting Theory and that 
 also aligns with what we're talking 
 about because that would explain why the 
 secrecy and and 
 engagement that could fall under crypto 
 terrestrial or 
 extraterrestrial so how about that uh 
 the other idea about it being just one 
 big hibiz program by the crypto 
 terrestrials yeah it could absolutely be 
 something where a species is genetically 
 impoverished is the word that comes up a 
 lot where they they've been here a long 
 time maybe and their immune system has 
 become weaker over time and they need us 
 for immunity or any number of things 
 organ and that's interesting and it's 
 also the the Crypt terrestrial 
 phenomenon seems to become more 
 interesting when you consider the 
 genetic component to this phenomenon we 
 talk a lot about that in the abductions 
 and we talk about that in the case of 
 The Hitchhiker effect where there is a 
 genetic component to this phenomenon if 
 you see a 
 UFO your family is more likely to see a 
 UFO your grandparents were more likely 
 to have seen a UFO paranormal 
 experiences run in families so there's a 
 genetic component here that points to 
 some very ancient connection between us 
 and this phenomenon and that maybe 
 they're extraterrestrials and we came 
 here from somewhere else and they 
 brought us here and that that's why we 
 have this connection but where does 
 crypto terrestrial phenomenon begin and 
 and extraterrestrial start so right 
 there's also a connection to ancient 
 sites there's tons of UFOs seen over 
 places like Stonehenge nonmodal and 
 Micronesia the pyramids in Giza there's 
 a lot of connection to ancient cultures 
 and certainly in in ancient cultures 
 folklore we see things all the time that 
 we go well that could be the 
 phenomenon yeah even tunnels I mean even 
 even uh there's some folklore when it 
 comes to uh people coming from from the 
 ground from Deep 
 tunnels yeah that's a big one the 
 Subterranean hypothesis yeah and there's 
 there's some evidence that supports that 
 I just never know if there's if that 
 means there's bases 
 underneath the Earth or if they're 
 emanate if they live there yeah I think 
 the ones in Cusco Peru they just uh they 
 just put giant stone slabs over them and 
 just wanted to forget all about them so 
 they're they're completely 
 sealed I don't blame them I think that 
 once you realize you know and that's 
 it's an interesting concept right I mean 
 un to seal up the phenomena right in 
 some ways you wonder if that's what 
 happened like the Council of NAA in the 
 case of the of the church uh in the 
 Catholic Church the Council of NAA and I 
 think it was 350 ad they 
 basically paired down all the books of 
 the Bible and began what we know today 
 is the New Testament and the Old 
 Testament of the Bible and the the 
 previous versions of the Bible were all 
 over the place and there's a lot of 
 books that didn't make that cut and 
 there was a lot of mysticism in 
 Christianity for its first 300 400 years 
 yeah and and then you know Constantine 
 took over Rome and they needed a a 
 religion that could take control so this 
 was it right and they sort of got rid of 
 that mysticism and it just reminds me of 
 that I wonder if they were trying to 
 seal this phenomenon 
 up because people were having contact 
 with it apparently in ancient times and 
 there's a this is where Consciousness 
 studies get involved maybe there's a 
 belief that it's through shamanistic 
 practices or or meditation some sort of 
 transcendental state where where these 
 some sort of contact between whatever 
 this phenomenon is and and US 
 happens that's a prevalent theory in 
 phenomenology I recall you mentioning 
 the presence of hieroglyphics 
 right yeah there were some hieroglyphics 
 on both the renam forest case and the 
 Zamora case and others those two are 
 pretty big cases that people can look up 
 right off the bat but uh there were 
 hieroglyphics on those on those craft 
 and that's completely weird to me yeah 
 so that sort of lends itself to this 
 crypto terrestrial 
 phenomenon and one of the theories that 
 involves cryptoterrestrials is the idea 
 that they were a precursor civilization 
 to us maybe they were human or something 
 like 
 human and then they helped us get out of 
 the jungle for lack of a better term 
 right the theory that Graham Hancock 
 seems to hold pretty close he's a 
 journalist who studies alternative ideas 
 around history um and he's got a pretty 
 good series on Netflix called ancient 
 apocalypse but he has some interesting 
 ideas and one of his ideas is that 
 there's this consistent thread of 
 folklore in Native cultures that a 
 civilization came someone came along and 
 taught them how to do all these things 
 and it does kind of match up well with 
 our human history in terms of where we 
 were at the end of the younger dry ass 
 period and how we got out of the Jungle 
 and when civilization looked like it 
 began it it it sort of looks like it 
 began out of 
 nowhere right and you have certain um 
 innovations that happened all around the 
 world kind of around the same time also 
 agriculture being one of them right so 
 these hieroglyphics either point to 
 something that is Crypt terrestrial or 
 an ET phenomenon that's related to us 
 because we use hieroglyphics too what 
 are the odds we have we're using the 
 same 
 alphabet right now we'll talk about it 
 in the interdimensional portion next but 
 you know Valle and Keel thought maybe 
 this phenomenon would would just do 
 things like that to mess with us put 
 hieroglyphics on the side of the craft I 
 find it interesting that the CIA tried 
 to cover up what that zamor craft 
 hieroglyphic looked like for whatever 
 reason they tried to 
 obscure what it looked like not the fact 
 that it was on there they tried to 
 obscure what he 
 described well I mean maybe it was just 
 a a teenage alien that put some graphics 
 on his cool new uh 
 craft you know just like you'd see put 
 some decals on the back and right so if 
 that's the case why would what we do the 
 same thing what are the odds yeah right 
 I mean you used to have that Camaro and 
 the mullet what was that on the side say 
 you can't touch this yeah 
 right all right well that just wraps up 
 pretty much that episode I was um I I 
 know we can talk about that forever it's 
 one of my favorite topics um one thing I 
 I know it's I think it's rumor still but 
 there's talk of the Vatican uh making 
 some kind of statement soon I know we we 
 mentioned the Vatican before because of 
 the uh what was it the World War II 
 remains that's right yeah so there's a 
 bunch of pressure on them right now to 
 reveal what's in their archives because 
 now people know that they know about 
 UFOs and they've known for a long time 
 yeah so that's pretty crazy I think 
 Catholics now have accepted that the 
 pope wasn't always being completely 
 forthright we can't say right we can't 
 say he was lying um I don't maybe some 
 of them have I'm not going to go back 
 and look at what they've said but 
 there's some there's some clearing up to 
 do there there's some there there for 
 sure and hopefully I don't know if it's 
 going to be anytime soon but hopefully 
 between now and our next podcast we can 
 have something to talk about when it 
 comes to that yeah that's pretty 
 interesting and I have a feeling that 
 the vatican's library is going to be go 
 back a long way oh yeah and that that's 
 pretty you know we maybe that's a good 
 way to end this is I think there as as 
 tension about this phenomenon gets 
 higher I know that some influencers are 
 saying that this phenomenon is going to 
 make an appearance 
 um I don't know we don't know we've 
 heard those rumors too and it's possible 
 that this phenomenon said that and then 
 it may not show up so right there's also 
 that but whatever this is It's been 
 around a long time that much we can be 
 sure of and that should give us all a 
 little bit of 
 comfort right that's true as we see 
 people absorb this idea it's funny to 
 see the people that I'm starting to 
 realize are just never going to have an 
 ontological 
 shock there just I mean the craft could 
 land right in front of them and they' 
 turn around and be like H whatever 
 what's the score of the 
 game and you know God bless him yeah I I 
 I can't get the picture out of my head 
 of a 
 cube encircled by a sphere clear sphere 
 so that's going to be in my mind for a 
 long time that's so yeah I I even the 
 people that turn away I think at some 
 point this is going to grab yet um 
 because it is big and we we'll talk 
 about it but uh yeah cryptoterrestrials 
 is a possibility definitely check out M 
 Ton's book The cryptoterrestrials 
 excellent piece of work 
 definitely so all right our next episode 
 will be on the interdimensional theories 
 on the topic and uh just there's so much 
 to talk about I look forward to it all 
 thanks a lot BR you as well thanks f 
 [Music]