Cycling Over Sixty

Lessons From My Second STP

• Tom Butler • Season 2 • Episode 51

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Ever wonder what it's like to conquer a challenging cycling feat after 60? Host Tom Butler relives his journey on his second Cascade Bicycle Club Seattle to Portland (STP) ride, sharing insights on fitness and defying expectations.

But this episode isn't just about Tom! He's joined by his daughter McKenna, a first-time STP rider, and her husband Garren, Tom's cycling companion from the start of his STP training. McKenna opens up about a challenging moment on the ride, offering a unique perspective on this 206-mile adventure.

Tune in for a fun and inspiring episode that explores the STP from different viewpoints. It's a celebration of family, perseverance, and the joy of cycling, regardless of age!

Link for the McKenna STP Instagram Post: instagram.com/p/C9h9u0vqUIN/

Thanks for Joining Me! Follow and comment on Cycling Over Sixty on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cyclingoversixty/

Consider becoming a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club! www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty

Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at tom.butler@teleiomedia.com

Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com

Tom Butler:

this is the cycling over 60 podcast, season 2, episode 51 lessons from my second stp, and I'm your host, tom butler. I'm back with more information that I hope will help everyone listening to join me in a journey to get and stay fit later in life. I don't have an interview this week. I'm going to be sharing my experience from last weekend riding Seattle to Portland for the second time. Before I do that, I'm once again going to plug the Cycling Over 60 Strava Club. I love seeing what rides people are doing and please keep the pictures coming. I hope to start posting more in the club chat. There have been some news stories lately that I would love to have others weigh in on. I see the club as a great place to share reactions like that.

Tom Butler:

I can sum up what I learned from the STB this year in this statement. I made huge gains from 2022 to 2024 in my fitness level. In July of 2022, I had just started getting back on the bike. My fitness level was really low, so in just two years I have seen a major shift in my strength and endurance. When I did the STP ride last year, I was carrying 25 more pounds. Interestingly, I lost another pound over the STP this weekend. So, as of today, I am at 199 pounds. That feels really good. I don't even remember when I was under 200 pounds last. I hope everyone listening who struggles with body fat can take some hope in the fact that, even though it is happening slowly, I am consistently reducing my body fat percentage. Next month I am doing a second DEXA scan that will allow me to see my body fat loss in a little more detail. That will help me really assess where I am right now. I would also like everyone to understand how much my cardio fitness has improved in just two years.

Tom Butler:

On this STP we rode a mile and an hour faster than last year, but my average heart rate was only 121 beats per minute. I had planned on riding around 140 beats per minute intensity, but the pace we set was just a lot easier for me to maintain. The lesson here is important. It's that at 60 years old, I was able to make significant improvements in cardio fitness in just one year. It must be said that, while I have no doubt that my fitness level has changed dramatically, I did benefit this year from having a bike that was much better suited for the STP. However, that bike meant I had to turn a bigger gear on climbs, and while I went harder up the hills, my heart rate never got above 156 beats per minute. I was expecting to have to be careful to not go above 170 beats per minute. Just as all of the experts who have been on the podcast have said, I am an example of the potential we all have to get stronger and more fit later in life, and I believe that between now and next July I will learn what changes I can make to once again see significant improvement. Will I see improvement every year? That's not likely, but what I think is true is that I haven't hit my limit yet.

Tom Butler:

Last year, we did an episode after STP where I talked to Jesse and Garen, who rode with me, and we discussed their experience. I thought I would do the same again this year. This year I rode with my daughter McKenna, and Garen, who is her husband, so this is a little more of a family discussion that I am letting you join in on. I'm hoping that we aren't only relaying our experience, but the lessons for successfully doing long group rides emerge from our discussion as well. The STP ended up being a challenge for McKenna in a specific way that you will hear about. So here we go.

Tom Butler:

I am joined this week by two of my favorite people in the whole wide world by two of my favorite people in the whole wide world and that's my daughter McKenna, and her husband, garen.

Tom Butler:

Garen has been on this journey with me for pretty much the whole time that I've been writing to do STP, and McKenna decided to join us this year and that made it a lot of fun as well. If you want to see McKenna, you can check out a post on the Cycling Over 60 Instagram that gives like two different McKennas, so I won't say any more about that. Thanks, guys for joining me, thanks for having us. And really it's more about lessons for cycling and using two-day 206 miles of the STP and really think about what lessons we want to glean from that for any cycling adventures, not really just the STP. Last year did episodes on the STP, several last episodes, and so I don't think we need to really repeat a lot of information about the STP. Just kind of analyze this year versus last year, kind of some things we learned. But this was the first year that you've done STP, mckenna, it's not your first time doing a group ride, and I'm wondering, from your perspective, was the startling experience of the STP a different experience from other group rides?

McKenna Miler:

you've done Was the starting experience.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, the experience at the start line.

McKenna Miler:

Yeah, I mean for sure, Like it's totally different being in a massive group of people versus being just like you and your friends and whatever you take off like, you're trying to get there on time. There were definitely some logistics for us to get there in the morning, so that was fun. Trying to figure that out ended up taking lime scooters from our apartment in all of our bike gear and we had bike cyclists running past us totally like what are you doing? Why are you on your bike?

Tom Butler:

well, again, I want to. I want to set the scene, because you've got your jerseys on and you've got your bib numbers pinned to the back of your jerseys so, from anybody looking, you are, you know, set to do the sgp. And then you're on lime electric scooters right right I love that image and I love people riding by your or seeing you and going. Are these guys gonna do you know 100 miles on a lime scooter today? What's going on?

McKenna Miler:

yeah, so I mean that that was a miscalculation on our part, but still really fun to get there with everyone and the music's going and they have the announcer you live in seattle, so you're not very far from the start line for stp and the original plan.

Tom Butler:

You left your bikes at the at the start line in a corral they have there, and then you were going to take the bus down and and that didn't quite work out, so you ended up buying another way down well, the miscalculation was us miscalculating that we could catch a 4 30 am bus that was a little bit too aggressive of a of a time, it sounds like.

Tom Butler:

What do you think, though, about like leaving your bikes at the start? Do you think you would do that again, or do you think that that made it inconvenient?

McKenna Miler:

in our exact current apartment. It's basically downhill the whole way and so, honestly, it would have been a really nice warm up to have biked over there. I was just worried about me. Like Garen was totally on board with that, I was just worried about you know, doing any more pedaling than I was going to be doing that day.

Tom Butler:

Right. So, looking back at it, you probably would have just kept your bikes and pedaled to the start line. Yeah, again, considering the geography I have to considering the geography of where we live, right. Right, the biggest difference from other group rides you've been on is just the amount of people. So STP is 5,000 people rode this year and it sounds like that that was really noticeable.

McKenna Miler:

That that amount of people makes for a different experience yeah, I mean it's just cool to be a part of something that big. I mean growing up in this area and, like you, knew about sail to portland back ride for a long time and hearing about it from you, um, it was cool just be a part of that and see, like all the different types of people, like different cascade rides, you have more advanced riders versus more like laid back riders and this was just like everywhere and all in between and so having a bigger group of people to sample, you know.

Tom Butler:

It feels like a Northwest cultural experience to me. Now, obviously it's a subset of the population, but it definitely feels like a Northwest cultural experience.

McKenna Miler:

Yeah, I would say that.

Tom Butler:

Can you both talk about what you were expecting the ride to be like before we started?

Garren Miler:

Well, I think this year, more than last year, we were coming into this ride with a group of people with a larger variety in our experience and in our athleticism going into it, and so that was kind of the big focus was communication between the group and making sure that the paces that we were setting and the frequency of our stops and and the resources we had as far as food and water was it was adequate for everyone in the group well, we'll talk about this a little more later here, but you were coming into this, right, sick Garen.

Garren Miler:

That's right.

Tom Butler:

Did that make it a different thought process coming in?

Garren Miler:

Oh yeah, of course it did. I mean for me. I'm used to being the guy pulling, being the guy out front, I'm used to being able to overexert myself and it's not a big deal. You know, I love going. Going up hill climbs especially when there's a lot of people around is always kind of motivating. I love to stand up and attack the hills and I had to kind of stop myself from doing that. I had to lay back, let other people pull for most of the day and just to kind of get a feel for where I was. I was thinking maybe the first 50 miles was just me kind of really trying to listen to my body and make sure that I wasn't going to push it harder than I can.

Tom Butler:

And then McKenna you were there last year along the route kind of supporting us last year, but it's a very different thing from being there and actually riding in it. Were you nervous before we were starting? Were you excited Kind of what were your expectations about how you were gonna get challenged on stp?

McKenna Miler:

yeah, um, I expected to need to drink a lot of water and having like that be a huge challenge for me. Um, I've learned recently this even in my day-to-day I need to be taking more electrolytes. Then I've like I didn't used to take electrolytes in my daily life and now I'm like, oh my word, since cycling, this makes a huge difference for my brain function. With cycling, it's like, ok, definitely need to be taking a lot of water. It's going to be hot. I don't temperature regulate well. I know that the heat was a really big deal for you last year, and so, although my body composition is quite different, I still have to really think about that, and for that reason, I chose a very specific tank top jersey and that did seem to be the right choice. I was really happy with that. But, yeah, I was really worried about heat, water, those things intertwined.

Tom Butler:

How worried were you about the ability of your legs to handle the ride?

McKenna Miler:

worried were you about the ability of your legs to handle the ride? Yeah, I was also worried about getting like 80 miles in and having to be like, okay, I gotta stop and stretch, having to slow way down, you know, really holding you guys up. I was definitely worried about cramping and just like pushing myself, pushing my legs specifically that hard. I was a little concerned about, you know, other parts of my body, like my back and my arms, holding me up. My upper body strength isn't the best, but I, as far as like pushing myself, I was definitely the most worried about like my legs, for sure.

Tom Butler:

On a scale of one to 10,. How prepared do you think you were?

McKenna Miler:

I would say like seven out of 10.

Tom Butler:

Oh, that's pretty high.

McKenna Miler:

I felt pretty prepared.

Tom Butler:

Okay, I definitely over-prepared.

McKenna Miler:

When it came to snacks and like water additives and stuff. I did pretty good to fit my kind of made up training regimen that wasn't based on a whole bunch of research and I did pretty good with that, except for Garen being sick. I didn't feel like I got quite as much in the week before, even though I know you're not really supposed to do a bunch before I did end up doing a short little bike ride by myself and doing a short intense hill and I actually feel like that prepared me super well. That really engaged my legs like right before and you know I ended up feeling great, so more prepared than maybe I thought I was. So saying now I'd probably say seven out of ten, but maybe right before starting, like the morning of SPP, maybe I would have said more like six out of 10.

Tom Butler:

Well, I think this is kind of an example of where age makes a huge difference. I don't think there's any way I could have ridden the STP with the preparation that you had. I'm trying to think like, in the two months before STP, do you know the ride count that you did?

McKenna Miler:

I'd say probably eight to ten you think eight to ten, I would go with eight, because all the bike rides I did, except for that one when he was sick the week before, were with him.

Tom Butler:

So yeah, it didn't seem like a lot, and maybe there is just a lot that I wasn't aware of.

McKenna Miler:

We did end up going on a few with our friend Quinton who did STP with us, so we were kind of training with him a little bit up here in the Seattle area.

Tom Butler:

On day one we did 14.3 miles per hour average. So we were actually on the bike riding for seven hours and five minutes. What do you think about that pace for you, that 14.3 mile per hour pace that we did on the first day?

McKenna Miler:

And looking back at it, yeah, it was great. I had no difficulties with that pace whatsoever, surprisingly which is why I was looking back at it I was really worried about that kind of pace, but that was a super easy pace for me.

Tom Butler:

We started out a little bit faster than that. I had an expectation about how hard to ride and started out kind of latching onto the back of some other riders. That was a higher pace to start out with, and then we backed off a little bit.

McKenna Miler:

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say super easy. It felt it felt right because we did vary it throughout the day. It felt really good when we did push it in the morning to try to really get farther in so that we could slow down when it got hot. So maybe I shouldn't say super easy. I should say it was that felt right. That felt like I can hop back on the next day and keep going.

Tom Butler:

You're saying easy in comparison to what you might have felt. I think you might have been thinking that you were going to push it. Yeah, you know that it was going to feel like a big challenge.

McKenna Miler:

Yeah.

Tom Butler:

So I think that 14.3 mile per hour pace was that was not pushing it for you. That wasn't going to push you past your limit. The Puyallup Hill is a big focus for this ride. I don't know how you were feeling if you were anxious at all about hitting that hill.

McKenna Miler:

Oh yeah, for sure. I was worried that that was going to like sap my energy, and then I wasn't.

Tom Butler:

I was have to go super slow rest of the day a lot of people talk about the Puyallup Hill and some people say, well, it's not really that big of a challenge. I don't think, garen, you see it as a challenge anymore no, it's not the worst hill I've had to pedal up yeah, I think that's true for experienced cyclists.

Tom Butler:

You know, the Puyallup Hill is not that big of a challenge, but I think for for STP. There's a lot of casual riders on STP and so I think that it does present a challenge for people. So you were coming into it, not sure if it would wipe you out or if it would max you out or anything. Mckenna, I think that's the right way to say it. How did you find it?

McKenna Miler:

It felt way less than I thought it was going to be. Like we rode chilly, hilly earlier this year and I remember coming around the corner and seeing just like a wall go straight into the air, like it felt like the road just went to the sky and so I in my head I was like that's the peel off hill, like you're going to have to really like fight to get up that hill. But I just dropped down to my lowest gear and just I guess, as you guys would say, like sit and spin. You know we say that with Quinton a lot. We just sat and spin and it was fun to go up it with you. We were like right next to each other the whole time and we kind of intentionally decided to be like that. But that was really fun. It was over faster than I thought it was going to be and then it was. I felt fine. Afterwards.

Tom Butler:

I made sure that I ate a cliff bar going into that like right beforehand, made sure I had enough carbs to go up that hill and it felt great it's interesting because I wasn't planning on riding up it with you because in the past, you know, like you mentioned, chilly, hilly, which is a, you know it's the first ride of the of the year for cascade bicycle club and it's out on the Kitsap peninsula and it has, you know, it's chilly and it is hilly and you would go faster than me up the hills, which I I'm still not quite figuring out because it seems like you're in the same gear and you're pedaling at the same rate that I'm pedaling, but somehow you move just a little bit faster than than me. So I was expecting that up the Puyallup hills. So it was fun riding together and I was really pleased that like you got up that and you're, you were like, you know, let's go, that was ready to go. How about you gary, like, do you have a way of contrasting the puyallup hill from last year to this year?

Garren Miler:

yeah, so I actually just just today clocked my commute on the way home and and coming home from work. I climb a hill that's a consistent 7% grade for a half a mile and then I jaunt up like a three block stint that's 9%. And so this is a pretty recent commute for me, but I think that's really increased my stamina and I got to the toilet pill this year and I just found a rhythm that I liked and it ended up being a bit quicker than the people around me, and so I was passing people going up the hill, not aggressively so, but yeah, I enjoyed the challenge and you know it was a good chance to kind of get some energy out at the beginning of the day and push myself a little bit and I really liked it.

Garren Miler:

No, I really enjoyed the hill. Not to sound pretentious, but I you know the 12 hills, a really good climate. I for me, personally I'm an extrovert and to have all those people riding around me just really makes me want to stand up and crank the gears so it's.

Tom Butler:

It's about 43 miles in, so it's you know we're warmed up and everything before we get there. And I think that's kind of what you mean is it's a you know you're warmed up, you know we've gone a ways and and it's a chance to like push it a little bit. Do you think you rode up it faster this year than last year? Do you have any way of?

Garren Miler:

Oh yeah, no doubt about it. I mean I I could probably check the, check, the Strava data, but uh, but I know for sure I rode up it quicker.

Tom Butler:

Did you ride with Quentin I?

Garren Miler:

was all by myself on my ascent. I think Quentin hung back with Richard.

Tom Butler:

We'll talk about Richard here in a little bit, because I ended up being a huge fan of Richard's. Maybe the biggest change from last year was riding through Joint Base Lewis-McChord McKenna. You didn't have that experience last year, where you missed out on that, but I'm wondering what you guys thought about that section of the route.

McKenna Miler:

That was really fun. I really like that.

Garren Miler:

Yeah, riding through JBLM is fun because there's no traffic on the road, it's just you and really it's just a lot of nature all around you. You can hear the birds tweeting If you ignore the rather off-putting signs that say things like undetonated munitions and small arms area or something. And also we had a combat transport vehicle. Bring a bunch of fully uniformed troops by us. But it was good because they were cheering us on and that was fun to see. So overall it was a great experience. Yeah, other than the off-putting signs.

Tom Butler:

You know smoking, no taking pictures, yeah. Because, you don't want to explode and they don't want things captured out there. So, yeah, I felt like that was a really unique experience and, just you know, having the entire road that was ours, you know there was. I think there were two cars that went by, there was the military transport vehicle and then I think there might have been an STP vehicle support vehicle that came by. But other than that, it's like the nicest bike trail you ever been on.

McKenna Miler:

Yeah.

Tom Butler:

And then again you're out in some beautiful wilderness and really nice trees and you know, for the parts that aren't like tank practice areas and that was a huge difference from last year when we were on a really busy road. So last year it was closed down because of an air show over JBLM and hoping the future that will continue to do that. That road felt really safe. How about overall, mckenna? How did you feel as far as safety was concerned during the ride?

McKenna Miler:

that's a little hard to say, because in the parts kind of around jblm and after that kind of the parts where you're around not not in jblm but around after that is when I started to feel sick and so I was really focused on staying up with you guys and I was quite surprised at how it wasn't. It was more my energy level and less my effort in my muscles. My legs had no issue keeping up, but I had. I was pretty tired, and so I was really focused kind of on okay, staying in drafts. You know I didn't pull any of the way, and so I was really focused kind of on okay, staying in drafts. I didn't pull any of the way, and I know that's a big part of why that pace was nice for me.

McKenna Miler:

But I was really focused on the cyclists around me, less so on the car. So I never really felt unsafe. I don't know if my experience living in Seattle and biking around Seattle it may be that I'm more used to being around traffic than maybe some people would be, but I never really felt unsafe. But I heard that that part with JBLM was the worst part. So sounds like I skipped out on what could have been the worst part of the first day.

Tom Butler:

We ended up on a bike trail for a long time, and so there was a stretch between JBLM and the bike trail, and I don't really remember what that was like, which to me means that it must not have been bad, except that, you know, tend to remember the second day, because there's a few places that are bad the second day, but that first day I felt like the route was, you know, really good.

Garren Miler:

No, I'd agree with you. The first day is definitely more calm when it comes to traffic, and when you are riding in the urban areas you're mostly doing so early enough in the morning that it's not as much of a problem. I think. Probably for me my least favorite part of day one is going through Renton, and it was remarkable to see the construction. I don't think a single cone had moved in the last 365 days since we did STP last year. Same exact construction pattern and same horrific road conditions to ride through right through the heart of Renton and that's a pretty poor section that. I don't know if Cascade can do anything to go around that, or just hopefully the city of Renton can get their act together and get the construction through.

McKenna Miler:

Wow, that's so funny.

Tom Butler:

Yeah. So from anybody listening in the city of Renton, we love you. Yeah, you probably deal with the construction more than we do on a daily basis.

Tom Butler:

I don't like it on my once-a-year bike ride through there, so we'll get it fixed. As I said, we did an average pace of 14.3 miles per hour and that compares to last year. We did a 13.1 average mile per hour the first day. Last year, day one was 12 hours in route, pretty much eight hours on the bike. This year, day one was seven hours five minutes on the bike and 11 hours and 12 minutes in route. Does that surprise you? Did you feel like we were moving at a better pace than last year, garen?

Garren Miler:

We really did feel like we were? Yeah, definitely, especially at the beginning of the day when we put up a really good pace at the beginning and I think that we could have sustained that pace if we really set our hearts to it. We were pushing 17, 18 miles an hour pretty easily and the heat certainly takes it out of you at the end of the day. Also, just make sure we're accommodating. The experience and the skill of everyone in our group was important, but I think I think that personally, I could have maintained that pace that we were doing at the beginning of the day if we were keeping a good rotation on the pace line and and really utilizing you know, pulling and switching off and I think we could have we could have done that all day long yeah, we definitely weren't even at like what we could have hoped to have been, because we weren't, we didn't really have a baseline, we weren't really switching out and you weren't feeling the best.

Garren Miler:

Yeah, so I wasn't able to do my due diligence and pull in the group for the first half of the day.

McKenna Miler:

And then the second half of the day I didn't feel too good.

Tom Butler:

Well, it's interesting because we didn't really share the load. You know there were several factors there. One was that we never planned on McKenna pulling Not the most experienced cyclist, although I, as a proud dad, think you're an incredible cyclist, so might be biased. And then we had richard who, like I said, I'm a huge fan of richard's or richard is an inexperienced cyclist. I mean, he had done an 80-mile ride one time and hadn't done much and was on a bike that you know probably wasn't best fitted to him. He was not clipped in, he was wearing what sneakers.

Tom Butler:

He was wearing, like jogging shorts what sneakers he was wearing, like jogging shorts. He did not have a cycling kit on or anything. Richard must be an incredible athlete. Two things about richard. One, he's incredible athlete and I'm not sure that he listens to his body. I'm not sure that the pain that his body is communicating that Richard pays any attention to. He just he held in there with us and it was amazing. But again he wasn't going to pull and so that didn't leave that many options for pulling.

Tom Butler:

But we were able to latch on the back of some other groups and I think that helped us quite a bit was to find some, some groups that we just latched on to. Now I want to admit this to everybody. I I am sorry because this is bad cycling etiquette I did not once, like, mentioned anybody. Hey, I'm gonna. Is it okay with you if I latch on the back of your wheel? And that's for cycling etiquette. Maybe I need to step back and analyze why it felt so uncomfortable doing that. But you know saying hey, can I you okay with me latching on the back of your wheel? No one seemed to care, so that was part of it. I know we wouldn't have cared if anybody would have latched on to us, but that was probably the biggest thing that we had, as far as bowling was, was getting behind other groups.

McKenna Miler:

It's a it's a ride, not a race.

Tom Butler:

It is a ride, not a race, but you know, I think anytime that you're riding a hundred miles with a group of people, if you can share the load in the wind and then that's beneficial. Now you have been on a ride Garen where you hit a lot of headwind, and this was not one of those rides.

Garren Miler:

We actually had a good tailwind day too.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, last year you both slept in a tent at Centralia College with I don't know a thousand other people or 2000 other people I don't know what percentage of people actually camp on the college and this year six of us stayed in a room together at a local church. Which of those would you rather?

McKenna Miler:

do, or would you prefer neither For that kind of activity? I want to feel clean at night. I want to feel like I'm performing a full reset and really regulating. So for me, I would have preferred to have been in a hotel for the ease of shower accessibility and bathroom and all of that. But as far as you know, the accommodations were at the church. It was great. I actually really liked being in a big room all together, especially with the specific people that we had on this bike ride this year. That felt right. I definitely like the church better than camping, but again, that's just for that accessibility to a shower and a private bathroom how about you garen?

Tom Butler:

what do you think?

Garren Miler:

I love camping at the college because there's so much energy there. All the people are there, there's vendors, there's some music playing in the background and you just really feel like you get the full experience. That being said, it certainly costs you a lot of energy to set your tent up, and there's always the risk of your sleeping pad going flat in the middle of the night. Or are you just not sleeping well because your equipment is not quite up to snuff, or you forget something, and so it can definitely impact your day two experience, and then in the morning you or someone who's supporting you has to take all your stuff down again before you pedal out of there too. So this certainly adds a layer of difficulty, but I think, as far as the experience is concerned, the college is an excellent place to camp, and I do love to do that if I can.

Garren Miler:

But, that being said, what was really nice with the church is they had a hot breakfast ready for us, and that made a huge difference, because they do provide a breakfast at the college, but it is not too much better than what you get at the rest stop.

Garren Miler:

It's just cold food and some oat bars, and I think you can get a bagel, but I eat gluten-free so I can't have bagels. And if you have any dietary restrictions it pretty quickly limits the effectiveness of the breakfast that they give you there. So last year I started peddling kind of hungry and I just ended up fueling up on Clif Bar as the first stop. If you're torn between these two experiences, a good compromise would be the Alaska Airlines tents that they have. So at the midpoint Alaska Airlines sets up probably 100 or so tents on part of the college and you can pay them to just use one of those tents, which I presume has sleeping arrangements in it like air mattresses and stuff, so that way you can show up, you can get all the vibes of being on campus and you can also sleep comfortably.

Tom Butler:

Here's what I liked about the church. I liked the fact that we were staying together in a room. I think that was really fun, you know, to be out together, you know, and then come back and be able to talk about the day and the experience and everything all together. I think it was really modified by you being so wiped out from being sick, mckenna. I think there would have been even more kind of talking and enjoying it, but we were all I was feeling pretty bad that you were feeling so bad. That modified it a bit. I thought the baked potato dinner that they provided, I thought that was great. Potato dinner that they provided, I thought that was great. Now I say that just a little bit of tweaking, and it would have been exceptional if they would have had a gluten-free vegetarian chili option to put on the baked potato. It would have been absolutely perfect.

Garren Miler:

I think in my opinion, dinner is the less important meal to supply. It's always fun to go find a restaurant in Centralia Last year we had a delicious Mexican restaurant we found near the college. But breakfast is the real thing. If you're arranging lodging, if they can provide you with a breakfast at four in the morning, that's really the key, because that's when nothing's open and you're going to have to fend for yourself. But dinner you can go find somewhere to eat and get some good food. So it's not too concerning.

Tom Butler:

So now we come to the biggest decision of the trip really for anyone, and that was, at one point, mckenna. You had to decide whether or not to ride the second day, which you chose not to do, wisely, I will point out it was a very wise decision to make. When did you make that decision?

McKenna Miler:

When I woke up the second day, I did everything I possibly could to make sure I didn't have any more symptoms, and that was kind of what we had talked about with Garen. Him going into a, being sick is like, okay, what's the trigger for you not writing the second day? And for him it was I get another symptom, or symptom comes back that had previously gone away, and so for me, I woke up day two with a splitting headache and I was like, okay, I'm not going to be able to do it.

Tom Butler:

That was a really tough decision okay, I'm not going to be able to do it. That was a really tough decision. Yeah, it was really kind of maybe gut-wrenching is a little bit too much, but it was a very emotional decision for you, I know.

McKenna Miler:

Yeah, I'm not one to give up on things and it felt like I was giving up even though truthfully it was choosing a faster recovery in other aspects of my life.

Tom Butler:

But yeah, there would have been a lot of consequences of you doing day two. I'm almost positive, you know, I think you were showing some signs of sinus infection an opportunistic sinus infection coming because, because you were sick, I think you would have broke down your immune system more if you would have done day two and I think that we would have had to had ridden in a way where we're really taking care of you. I think it would have changed the experience a lot. So it was a bummer. I mean no doubt about it. It was sad that you didn't get to finish, but I think you showed an example of making a wise decision for what your body was saying to you. Thank you, that wise of a decision. If I was in that position Now, I should point out that your mom was by herself on day one.

Tom Butler:

You know the plan was for her to be by herself on day two. You know supporting us driving the car down to Portland. So I think her STP was made better by you not going day two. So that was one thing to be happy about, I guess.

McKenna Miler:

I definitely latched on to that being able to hang out with her. I'm like, as much as this sucks, I'm going to just enjoy hanging out with you today. So I did end up having a good day, you know, and we were there when you guys crossed the finish line.

Tom Butler:

What are you thinking as far as next year? Now, last year we rode day two at an average pace of 13.2 miles per hour, and so we were moving for seven hours and 56 minutes. So basically eight hours. For seven hours and 56 minutes, so basically eight hours. It took us 11 hours and 22 minutes to get from the halfway point to Portland last year. So, garen, do you? Maybe you know, but what do you think our average mile per hour was this year?

Garren Miler:

I actually don't know. Off the top of my head, I don't think I remember seeing that stat on my strava. Um, I'd imagine it was probably a bit slower than day one. Okay, I mean 13 and a half well, so day one was 14.3.

Tom Butler:

Last year we did 13.2.

Garren Miler:

You're saying, this year we did 13.5 on day two on day two, correct, so it was actually 14 okay, so it was a bit slower than day one.

Tom Butler:

I figured it would be yeah, a bit slower, but faster than last year. And again I'm gonna go back to richard, who just seemed to motor through just like held in there with us, despite the fact that there were times that he was like, okay, can we slow down a little bit for Richard? I mean, he just held in there. I just am so impressed by how he did. And again, I think that it shows a big difference about age. I think what he did hurt his body. I heard that he's doing well, but I do think what he did hurt his body. He was taking pain relievers and I just think that would have been a non-wise thing to do for somebody who wasn't. I don't know how old Richard is, but he's under 25, I'm pretty sure you know. I would just say that that is the difference between being young and doing this and being older.

Tom Butler:

Last year we were seven hours and 56 minutes, so we were going a little faster. That meant that the time we were on the bike moving was seven hours and 56 minutes, so we were going a little faster. That meant that at the time we were on the bike, moving was seven hours and 31 minutes. So for the entire day two we were in route for 11 hours and 23 minutes. What do you think it was this year?

Garren Miler:

so that includes stops and all that stuff I bet it was just under 11 hours, 10 hours and 45 minutes 11 hours and 28 minutes.

Tom Butler:

We actually spent more time this year than last year.

Garren Miler:

Well, that's really surprising to me, because I thought that skipping that last stop would have saved us a good, you know, maybe half an hour.

Tom Butler:

I was really surprised to see this. Now there is a potential explanation of this, and I don't remember how this went down. I don't know how long it took me to stop my Strava. I don't know how long it took me to stop my computer. I should say, and I don't know if you guys remember so I don't know if you guys remember so I don't know if 20 minutes, you know, or more kind of, we were standing there at the finish line before I turned off my Strava. Well, let me look at my Strava real quick.

Garren Miler:

I have 1129 as well for total time.

Tom Butler:

Wow. So I you know, that's still something that I think that we need to improve on, and maybe not something that I think that we need to improve on, maybe not.

Garren Miler:

Maybe we just need to bank on about 12 hours of being out there, I think for the size group we had, we were about as efficient as we were going to get at those stops.

McKenna Miler:

That's probably the only way to cut it down is if you have less people with you, less variables at the rest stops.

Tom Butler:

I have a big question about whether or not I could have done better than I did this year. You know I was writing out last year. I stayed behind you the whole time. I was like allergic to any wind at all last year, but this year I was out in front much more, so it was a little bit harder of a ride that way for me, but, man, I felt thrashed when we got done and I don't know that I could have done a bigger effort than I did and that's really disappointing to me, because 14 miles an hour is not. It's not fast enough. Really, I want to be able to do it faster someday.

McKenna Miler:

I love that. Okay, I love, you haven't hit your goal yet. I think that's perfect.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, and you know the difference between this year and last year was huge. If I have that much of a difference and I don't know that that's possible if I have that much of a difference between this year and next year, then you know it'd be another mile an hour and I'd be at that 15 mile an hour pace that I'd like to be at, riding at about 140 beats per minute intensity. But my average heart rate was 127 for day one and 121 for day two, so I was well below the intensity that I had planned on riding, but my legs did feel shot. So I don't know, if I did ride at the intensity that I planned on riding, my legs might not have been any more tired. I might have been pressed more cardiovascularly, but my legs might not have been really significantly more tired. I do know that the heat was still a problem, you know, especially on day two. How did you feel about the heat, karen?

Garren Miler:

It was hot. I mean my biggest battle was the sun itself. Feel about the heat, karen, it was hot. I mean my biggest battle was was the sun itself more than the heat?

Tom Butler:

just keeping the sun off your skin, not getting sunburned um, that was the big challenge okay, so there might be a difference of opinion here, but it seemed to me like you were applying sunblock appropriately on day two, right? Do you feel like that was the case, mckenna?

McKenna Miler:

I mean, I heard from all three of you guys that he was applying it, lathering himself up. We used zinc oxide mineral sunscreen and he came across the finish line with a nice white hue on his skin, so that was good to see. Sunblock is a concern with Darren. He does seem to be really sensitive to the sun recently and there are several theories we have for why that is. That being said, I do think that he applied the sunblock. I'm a little concerned. It wasn't the right brand or the right level. He had 50 SPF. Maybe he needs more than that at this point. Maybe that brand being mineral and being more healthy, maybe it just wasn't quite enough coverage.

McKenna Miler:

I mean to look into other options. That isn't the sunscreen I typically use. We ended up picking that up on a different excursion, so I do think that Garen did his part. Day two. I think there maybe could have been more day one and maybe that's where the problem was. But but yeah, it's definitely a consideration for me. When it comes to the, the sun and the heat and everything, I feel like they need to move stp back to june I do think that they're considering, you know they're looking at that.

Tom Butler:

I think that they have to take into account climate change and what that means for what the temperature is going to be at you know, the middle of july, you know it was not as hot this year as it was last year, but I still felt by the time I got in I had really been impacted by the heat.

Tom Butler:

When it is hot, my heart rate does increase and you know there's there's a physiological reason, reason for that, and I don't I would have to talk to someone about what that means. As far as intensity, you know I would love to see what the STP would look like for me. If it was cool, you know, if I didn't have to fight the heat, it would be really interesting to see how much better the experience would would would be. They were literally trying to cool people down who had heat exhaustion, you know, at different stops, and so you know, again, this year it was an issue, not as bad as last year, but it wasn't an issue again this year yeah, I am so grateful that it, the day that I experienced, was cooler than what was it about?

McKenna Miler:

like five degrees cooler. It was even up to 10 degrees cooler than it was last year.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, I think that the hottest part is coming into Portland. You know, I think, and you're coming into Portland, you're stopping and stoplights you're not. You know air is not moving because you're stopped and I didn't manage that very well.

Garren Miler:

But I won't go into that here well, like we talked about earlier too, uh, day two was one of the few times where we had a tailwind, and we weren't entirely excited about it, because the tailwind also meant that there wasn't as much air cooling us off. And so we get that really awesome feeling where you're riding and you can just talk to people around you and there's no wind going by your ears, and it's kind of surreal, but at the same time it felt like you were just standing on a concrete pad with the sun beating down on you yeah, it's a weird thing.

Tom Butler:

It was a nice win I mean we were, we really benefited from that. But yeah, it was like you're not. You know you're not getting that headwind cooling off, so it was a big deal I feel like they could also utilize misters more the.

McKenna Miler:

The stop where they had those was just heavenly um, and I feel like they it's maybe the city even they could like set some up on the sidewalk.

Garren Miler:

It seems like you're on the wrong side I think that's a.

Tom Butler:

I think that's a really good suggestion. If, if different cities could set up misters, because you're right, you're right through that, you know, uh feels great at the halfway point there is a big mister that you ride through. I want to be a little creative here. This is an experiment, so if you need to think a little bit, that's fine. Let's say your weekend was a television episode. What was the story of your weekend for the television episode? I?

Tom Butler:

would say in the style of friends, I would call it the one where richard made it to portland I think rich Richard would have definitely been the focal point, and I think he would have to write it around what was going on in Richard's head and the difference between that and what Richard was saying to us. Because day two, I'm pretty sure the message is Richard is such a pleasant guy for one thing, but I'm pretty sure that the messages that his body was telling him in his head were mostly swear words. We did not see that at all. So, yeah, I like it.

McKenna Miler:

I think it would have to be some plot around boundaries. I set a couple different boundaries, but it kind of centered around listening to my body and what my body needs and the obvious boundary was okay, I'm not going to ride day two. But kind of a secondary boundary to that was being able to enjoy you guys coming across the finish line, despite the fact that I was not also riding across that finish line and there was a lot of prep for that, you know, day two while we were meeting you guys down there on our way.

Tom Butler:

So yeah, there were two times that I was very proud of you. One we were going along and just like, look, I've got to stop. I think one thing you discovered was that if you would stop for a little bit, it didn't take long before like there was an energy recovery just from taking a few minutes to stop, which I thought was very interesting. To be kind of intimidated by or not have thoughts that people might look down at you, to intrude upon you and to affect that decision. And then your decision to take care of yourself, despite you know a lot of energy for months about doing the STP and finishing the STP. So I was proud of you when you said no, it's not a good idea for me to ride D2. I think that was awesome.

Tom Butler:

I want to give you an opportunity to talk about if it was different this year. Last year you felt very, it felt very generous how you praised me at the end of the STP last year and I'm wondering how it felt like riding with your 61 year old dad on a ride like that. Was that? Does that feel like? You learned something about your old dad riding like that? What's that like?

McKenna Miler:

I don't know if you're going to like this answer.

McKenna Miler:

I am very competitive, as I think both of you know, and so an unofficial goal in my head was to be able to just like on par, keep up with you during, like STP. I feel like for the most part, I did that, and so for me that in itself was an accomplishment, and that definitely comes from me holding you in high esteem as a cyclist and that's not to say I think you're a professional or anything. I'm not overemphasizing in my head, but I'm a new cyclist right. So for me that was a big deal to ride up the Puyallup Hill with you, and, except for the fatigue that I was experiencing from coming down being sick, I felt like I could really keep up with you. So for me that's a little bit of a milestone. I think day two could have solidified that if I had felt a little bit differently, but it definitely was like okay, this is a big deal. I've learned a lot about cycling from you over the years, but this was more of an implementation rather than a learning.

Tom Butler:

I think, mostly day two. I think I recognized it more on day two, but I was passed by a lot of young women, you know, just, you know like constantly passed by women in their twenties and I couldn't help but think, you know, that's McKenna. You know, the only reason that she's not doing that is because she's just not spent as much time on the bike. But you know, I think definitely in the future, if we keep doing 100 mile rides, I think it's fair to say that your legs were not over challenged on this.

McKenna Miler:

I was shocked by how well my legs did. Actually, I felt a little bit sore Sunday night, but I actually think that was more from me being sick than any like actual fatigue Like I. As far as what I was experiencing on Saturday, my legs did not hurt once and maybe there was enough other stuff screaming in my body to overpower it. But I was shocked by how seemingly easy it was for my body, my legs, to keep up.

Tom Butler:

And so I think your preparation was like a four out of 10, maybe legs to keep up, and so I think your preparation was like a four out of 10, maybe you know. So if you would have prepared the way that, like you should have, you know, and you didn't get sick, it would. You would be in this situation like man, I have surpassed my dad, my dad's. You know, keeping up with my dad is not a challenge, you know, and never will be a challenge again. And so you know it'll be interesting, like moving forward kind of how that works out. But I'm glad, you know, I'm glad, like you, have this thing of like I can keep up with my dad, you know, but I'm also glad that it's a situation where I can keep up with my dad, you know, but I'm also glad that it's a situation where I can keep up with you.

McKenna Miler:

Yeah, so of course that's the bigger thing and that's why last year that was such a big deal to me. Yeah, when you texted me this morning that you hit one 99, I mean that was insane, that I like shot out of bed. I was still in bed when you sent me that text. I like shot out of bed. Like no way. Like you've been so close for so long and it's been a goal for you for like a decade now. Like that's an even bigger deal to me than you finishing STP last year, because that's been such a longer goal for you and it's so indicative of the fact that your body is still changing. You're not like plateaued, like you are still getting healthier and healthier. That is so huge and I'm so proud of you and I'm so happy for you and I think it's really cool that it happened like right after STP. Maybe some sort of push from that, you know, kind of got your body moving more. I know you had kind of had some specific plateaus and had talked about that, so I'm so excited for you.

Tom Butler:

An important thing here is that when I did STP, I did not eat carbohydrates. You know, I had very little carbohydrates on STP. So I ate a lot of proteins. The bars that I ate had protein, but they had no carbohydrates, and so when I'm at STP I was burning fat, you know, and so and that's an important thing for me to continue to do. But, yeah, so weight is coming off slowly and I'm totally fine with that. My body is adjusting to a lot of things and I'm fine with that. But you know, a big reason I'm doing this is so that my family has me around.

McKenna Miler:

Thank you to all the listeners that are helping him stay motivated that are helping him stay motivated.

Tom Butler:

Yeah, and they are, you know. Thanks, guys, for everything. I mean, this journey is a journey that you guys have played such a huge role in, and I just want to thank you both so much. It just would not have even been close to the same without you guys being there and supporting and everything. So thanks so much and look forward to SDP next year when your mother joins us.

McKenna Miler:

Yay.

Tom Butler:

That's going to be a big deal For sure. All right, we'll talk to you later.

McKenna Miler:

All right, love you.

Tom Butler:

Thank you to you later.

McKenna Miler:

All right, love you, love you Bye.

Tom Butler:

I'm a bit surprised by McKenna's desire to keep up with me. If I think about it, I have noticed that she really enjoys beating me up hills. I love that she still sees me as strong enough. That is an accomplishment to do better than me. But I've said before that I believe it won't take long before I'm struggling to stay up with her, and, of course, that's exactly what I would want. I'm really interested in this aspect of parenting adult children. I would love to have you share any experiences you have had riding together with kids as they get older. You can find my email and Instagram link in the show notes and if you're on Strava, please join the Cycling Over 60 Strava Club. It is the best place to react to episodes and share your journey. I hope your journey, like mine, is being filled with memorable moments. And remember age is just a gear change.

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Tom Butler

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