Episode 23 - Vanessa has a Vagina

Hey fam! We're back! This week, Erica and Vanessa chat about their current goings-on for a bit, and then we get into some current news to talk about the Research Institute for Gender Therapeutics (RIGT), a groundbreaking Australian study about lowered unaliving ideations from HRT and Erin Reed's newest map; this time for adults!

And, Vanessa talks about her vagoo.

Links for stuff we talk about!

RIGT: http://www.rigt.org

Australian study: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/new-randomized-trial-shows-trans

Erin Reed's adult map: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-legislative-risk-assessment

Transcript

Vanessa: 0:00

Recording on this one... and backup recording, oh.... *gibberish* see, it's a good thing. Check my work here because I was not recording. Okay? I have no idea how we're going to be laid out on the screen in the final setting because right now you're on top of

Erica: 0:26

side by side by side by side.

Vanessa: 0:32

I like that better. You're over here. Just wait. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Episode 23 of transcending humanity. I'm Vanessa, I'm joined by Erica, we're trying a new format for the show. I want to see how people like it. So please send us your feedback or give me just kind of focusing on the first half of the episode just kind of catching up talking about you know, stuff this conversation off. And then second half of the episode, we will be talking about news or other kinds of parent events, stuff like that. Today is pretty much going to be the Aaron Reed appreciation half hour. So yeah, here we are. Erica, what's going on with you? Or how goes? The everything?

Erica: 1:14

I guess everything? Hi, everybody, thanks for going well, haven't really made this public. But I know, the NSA knows I'm looking for a new company to land with that's gonna that's kind of going okay. Does anybody on the job market does seem like the predictions of things picking up in September or coming through now I'm in tagging. So it can only talk about pack. But it's you know, it's, it's it brings up a couple of interesting points, I'd love to make actually just kind of riffing off the top of my head. And in especially when you're looking for a new job as a trans person, it's very, can be quite difficult, right? You know, some companies, there are companies that are better than others, right in terms of not giving a rat's ass that we're trans and just treating us like humans. And there's some companies that are like, now I'm not talking to you. Right. And it's been a really interesting experience. And I really kind of wrestled with, do I put something on my resume? about being trans? It's on LinkedIn, like if you go visit my LinkedIn profile, which is how Vanessa and I originally collect connected, you can't miss it.

Vanessa: 2:17

Yeah, see what we're

Erica: 2:21

very Yeah, we're very out people. And so recently, I took it off my resume just to see if that might help. Because I usually lead with like, you know, how at the top of resume and so you do like a summary like I'm all these awesome things. And I lead with, I'm a proud transgender woman. So recently took that off to see if that would help. And anecdotally, it's helping now I will say this, I also completely revamped my resume took a look at what's happening in the job market today took a look at job descriptions. So I can't say it's one to one. But it's, it's hard.

Vanessa: 2:51

It's hard to compare.

Erica: 2:52

It's hard to compare. But since I work in tech, I have the ability to focus on some more LGBT forward companies, I can't name any names because I'm an interview process. And that would not be smart, but it's going well. And one of the things I actually get asked a lot I don't mind kind of addressing here is do you announce yourself in the interview process? And I know there's some of us that don't, and some of us who pass and don't. And that's perfectly acceptable for me, I use it as a as an opportunity to be like, This is who I am. This is who you're getting. So I can ask the recruiter, the HR people right away? What's going to happen when I'm working on one a project in your company, and someone doesn't appreciate me because I'm trans? What are you going to do about it? So it gives me an entree to start talking about? What are your HR policies? What does inclusion and belonging look like? What's the posture, and it also, as someone who's interviewed for tons of jobs in my lifetime, as well as hired hundreds of people, it gives me a chance to put the interviewer on their back feet and see how they respond. Because there's, there's wrote responses, but when you get to people get to people at truth, and you know what you're dealing with? So, anyway, it's just a little anecdotal. Like, if you don't want to say don't say anything, if you have the privilege of passing kudos to you, if you don't like me use it as an opportunity to be like, This is who I am. Yeah, what is that gonna be a problem. So there's that. I am also currently attending virtually attending the out an equal Conference, which is going on this week, which is a if you don't aren't aware of it. It is the largest queer workplace inclusion conference in the world. And it's really, it's really a great thing to get to now. It's in Florida this year at Disney, which is problematic, that they've done a lot to take care of their trans people to make sure that they're not out in public and don't have to worry about bathrooms or anything. So tons of security, but this year, if your company is not a partner without an equal, you can't attend like they've locked it down. They don't want randos and so that's good, which means that means people who aren't with like a big financial company or a big that company, and you're not a partner, you can't attend virtually or even in person, we're in previous years. But anyways, I've been able to go. And there's really great things especially like, there's this really big push for trans leadership and trans executive leadership within some of the larger companies. And it's really nice to see that on this sort of national and global stage for companies like Adele, like Accenture, like Apple and Microsoft to say, we are working on leadership track for trans people in the workplace. You know, like, maybe we'll hit the C suites. And we need we don't have currently a trans person in the C suite,

Vanessa: 5:35

really, anywhere, not

Erica: 5:37

me. I mean, let's be honest, there's probably someone that has a small company that has a trans person on their leadership board. But you know, when we're talking about corporations

Vanessa: 5:47

scale, yeah.

Erica: 5:50

But nice to go to that this week. Otherwise, I'm doing really well. I had my checkup with my trans doctor yesterday, things are going good. I'm three months post or key. And things are going really well with that.

Vanessa: 6:06

Three months already.

Erica: 6:07

I know it's wild. It's been three months since that happened. Much faster recovery, as you know. And I'm really happy that I did that for I can't recommend that enough for those of you that want to pursue that. Especially if you're still considering whether or not you would even do vaginal plasti, which I'm not sure about. Right. And so I'll also be trying, going on, or just around here in a couple days. Yeah. So we'll see how that goes.

Vanessa: 6:38

It also makes an amazing sleeping pill, you take it at night, and it knocks you out that in that half hour. It's great. That's

Erica: 6:43

what I've heard. And I need help with that as someone who is eight years older than 45. As I said to someone yesterday, I'm 45 for the I'll be 45 for the eighth time this year when I have my birthday in two months. Um, other than that, you know, it's fall. We have a big trip coming up out of the country in November, we're going to Egypt. So just kind of planning and getting ready for that.

Vanessa: 7:09

You have to see all the pictures.

Erica: 7:11

Oh, we will. This is like a bucket list lifetime trip. Particularly because my partner is an anthropologist and was an archaeologist earlier in their career. So like it's a big deal. Yes. So I'll be sending pictures. We're doing like the whole river cruise thing. Oh, yeah. Again, we the will come back and have this it'll be actually a really good idea for an episode Vanessa, which is traveling as LGBTQ?

Vanessa: 7:37

Yeah, that's actually a question, too, especially into Islamic countries like, yeah, how are you expected to present yourself.

Erica: 7:49

So I'll touch on this one briefly. Because we've had some conversations with with we are sticking with a travel company that was like number one for us. So we will only be in tourist areas with other tourists. So it'll likely be fine. In general, when you go to Egypt, it doesn't really matter what gender you are, but you need to cover up because that's just local culture. Now, if you're a woman, you need to cover up even more. So I will probably play things down a little bit and just keep it covered up. And when we're, when we're on like our little river cruise ship. I won't worry about it too much. But when I'm at, you know, a repairman or a museum or something, I'll take the same precautions that that any cisgender woman would take. And, you know, there's just if you follow the local guidelines, we've heard it should be totally fine. Now, if we were going to travel off on our own other travel company, then it could be a real problem for me.

Vanessa: 8:37

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was like when you said Egypt and like, that's both amazing and terrifying at the same time. So

Erica: 8:44

I know well, I went to we went to Mexico. Earlier this year, we went to the Dominican Republic at last year. So I've got some experience traveling internationally. Now. It's transit has been fine. But you do have to do your research and think no, like, what's the like? What's the, what's the position of the attitude around trans people and LGBTQ people? Now, you know, Mexico and Dominican Republic are very friendly, because let's be honest, everybody goes to Cancun, right? Right. So that's what's going on with me what's happening with you?

Vanessa: 9:14

Well, following up in the job search thing with you I'm doing the same and I think there are two C suite eligible people here on this podcast right now. So we both have that sort of experience.

Erica: 9:30

Not sure which way you are on screen but hire her you are

Vanessa: 9:33

this way pointing to the right, but it's going to the left on the screen here. So yeah, but yeah, hire this person. Yeah, hire that person. I when it comes to trans stuff on my resume, the only part I have really mentioning trans on the resume is transcending humanity. I put this on my resume because honestly, it just makes sense to it's, yeah, it's it's kind of a job. There's people management, there's all that stuff. So I'm like, fuck it and put Anna? Well, it's

Erica: 10:01

it's media, it's social media, it's a lot of good digital content is valuable in a lot of roles, especially the things that I think you were looking for.

Vanessa: 10:10

So I changed my resume to be a functional resume. I put my role at once a functional resume. It's like, tighten down. It's no,

Erica: 10:25

I got you. So I got you like, bullet points and like,

Vanessa: 10:28

yeah, exactly. Because my previous one was, like, dense and wordy. And I think, you know, you have the attention of a recorder for seven seconds. So it starts off with some bullet points of what I do. And then I have my four major positions, starting with the most major, which is my oldest one, from 2006 to 2019. And the major things I did with that, so I'm looking for HR roles.

Erica: 10:57

Can I talk about that for a second? Yeah. Yeah, so if you're, again, as a person who's done a lot of hiring, I can speak to this anecdotally, as well as like, what's out there in the industry. If you're looking for a job, that resume is going to be functional. Or some people say punchy, right? quick description of the job. And like, here's what I achieved, boom, boom, boom, boom, because people are gonna look at it seven to 10 seconds app, that's if you're lucky, because it's gonna get passed through a machine first AI. And I can tell you, like, a lot of people come into interviews, having barely looked at your information, barely. Just maybe 30 seconds, maybe a minute before, maybe they looked at your LinkedIn profile. So it's got to be really good and solid and punchy and demonstrative. But then you need to come in being prepared to say, This is who I am, because they probably have no quit.

Vanessa: 11:48

Yeah, yeah. And listen to Erica, she knows what she's talking about. She's done that kind of recruiting my recruiting is I've also hired hundreds of people. But mine have been more in person. Factory roles. So Right.

Erica: 12:05

So mine would be like, I guess they call it professional professional versus I don't think it is that factories, that blue collar I forget.

Vanessa: 12:13

You know, it's only turns I really know for those. So yeah, but

Erica: 12:18

so sorry. You go back to your talking about you. I just wanted to jump on that.

Vanessa: 12:20

No, no, that's that was that's that's the sample. So yeah, that's, that's my thing. That the reason why I'm actually starting to look at local roles now. I mean, I really want remote. But these remote roles, yeah, you're up against 1000s of other people. So

Erica: 12:38

sorry, I saw a role but I was really well qualified for like, it would be like the top 25% According to LinkedIn, or whatever. And it had like 2000 applications. I was like, what, even if I am the top? How am I gonna get noticed? And I was like, it's not worth it.

Vanessa: 12:52

Like, I still send the applications but so now I'm, I'm looking at rules at like local universities and stuff like that into some local businesses, but I figure if I can land, if I can land an HR role. That'll give me some experience. And then later on, I can look for something remote when I need to get out of Ohio, but I need income. I'm only making like, maybe $1,000 A month right now. And let's not get especially since I'm spending 200 a month on the shows. But yeah, that's that's my Japanese. My big news was I went to the country club. Enjoy.

Erica: 13:29

I've heard good things about those clubs. Yeah,

Vanessa: 13:31

yeah, I had a I had a vagina installed two weeks ago. That's why there wasn't a high quality a luxury one. Yes, high quality and luxury. It's the Fernando. This book from my doctor's name was is Dr. Fernando.

Erica: 13:47

It's the different spoke model, the luxury model. All the features.

Vanessa: 13:51

Yeah, like, right before the operation, they when you're guaranteed in and put on the table, they have to ask you just to make sure they know what you're there for.

Erica: 14:02

It's time well,

Vanessa: 14:03

what are you here for I said my spoke from the policy. And that that was appreciated by the the crowd gathered to look at my crotch for three hours.

Erica: 14:15

It is a wild experience to go and have surgery and you go in and you they check you into a little like room pre surgery and you lay on this bed for a fucking hour cold. And then they will you and you're like you could move over and ask other questions. And then 210 seconds later the world doesn't exist. Yeah.

Vanessa: 14:32

And then all of a sudden you're in another room like yeah, the I did a Ask Me Anything on Instagram. I'm trying to see if I can download that. So I can put on my YouTube channel. But I mean, I had a few people join and ask them good questions. So we just had some technical difficulties that I'm cutting out and the recovery has Spin interesting, you, they? I honestly the thing I was most terrified about with the entire process was not having my entire groin restructured and shut in and all that stuff. It was the is the IV. I just hate ABC. Yeah. So is it?

Erica: 15:18

Is it like any injection or just particularly IVs?

Vanessa: 15:21

IVs? Like, I don't mind just like getting a flu shot or my estrogen shot, but it's stuff where it goes in the veins and stays. That feeling

Erica: 15:29

of Yeah, yeah. Um, because I imagine you had that for days.

Vanessa: 15:33

Yeah, yeah, I had the one that would hear for the entire time I was in the hospital. And then I that was quick in my head here. Yeah. Two of them. I got them to remove this one earlier on. But so then they also put a catheter in you. And yeah, they're not fun. So the recovery was, I found that I had always suspected that narcotics don't really work on me. And because like anytime I've had them in the past, when I had my wisdom teeth out after my orky They didn't work. And I even had a couple pills left of I forget which, which one it was. I lost you again.

Erica: 16:21

Hi, it's me. Okay. And the problem.

Vanessa: 16:24

You're the problem.

Erica: 16:26

So you're talking about that you had to IBS and that IVs really? Like give you a hard times.

Vanessa: 16:31

Yeah. And I found that painkillers just start working on me. Like even like I took some some narcotic painkillers before my electrolysis and it did nothing. And the entire time when they were giving them to me at the hospital nothing so so like

Erica: 16:49

were you did you have like a nerve block and then that were off. And that's when you finally started to feel it

Vanessa: 16:55

or didn't even have that I wound up just only thing that I was able to do anything from my pain was just Tylenol and Motrin. And then eventually they gave me a pump of I forget what it's called. It's, they use it for like migraine. Like,

Erica: 17:12

I know, it's talking about like, Naloxone or something.

Vanessa: 17:15

Yeah, it's not narcotic does the only thing that helps, is the second day, I was screaming in agony, like, I was laying in bed screaming, crying. I know. It was hard. Yeah. Then it started to get better. And how they do it at the Cleveland Clinic is you stay in the hospital for a few days, which hospital bed manufactures, we need to have a chat. Your beds have to cost what 100 $650,000?

Erica: 17:42

So probably way too much for how awful they are.

Vanessa: 17:45

Why can you put a mattress on them that doesn't suck. This one, like the bottom of it was like crooked, and just it just constantly hurt. Put a decent mattress on those fucking things seriously for what it costs.

Erica: 18:00

When you have to lay there for days, and you're not really allowed to move, you know, for whatever surgeries when you can't go to bed, and you've got to lay in an awful bed for days, that just makes it all so much worse.

Vanessa: 18:11

It was horrible. So and then then they had me transferred to their the hotel that's attached to the Cleveland Clinic. And the annoying part about that is insurance didn't cover that. And it was like 300 hours a night, but I wound up getting a refund for some of it, which is nice. But then the doctor would come and visit me in my hotel room. It was like they put you there because if something goes wrong, you can get there quickly. But you also have to be stuck in a hospital room and the beds much more comfortable. But you have to have someone stay with you. So if you're Yeah, if you're planning on having the surgery done at the Cleveland Clinic, be sure to have someone lined up that can stay with you. And you're going to need about$1,600 upfront to pay for the hotel. So

Erica: 19:00

I believe we need to have a trans surgery support hotline like, not everybody has a person that can come and stay with him for I think it was like a week. Right? But it's about a week. Yeah. And like what do you do in that situation?

Vanessa: 19:16

I don't know. He can't get the surgery. So yeah, that's the there has to be you're right, a support network for that maybe the thing that Leo's a part of that I'm going to mention here in a little bit, maybe something that they can that they can do so the catheter was a problem on Friday night, it got clogged. And so that got painful because only urine started backing up in me. And so when the doctor came on Saturday morning, she tried flushing it twice and it still didn't work. So I had to have the wonderful experience of having that catheter removed in another one put in without any anus sec. Yeah, that was

Erica: 20:03

killing me to see I remember you mentioned that I was like, oh, that sounds so terrible.

Vanessa: 20:08

It was horrible because everything down there stupidly raw to this they just mad. Yeah. So that wasn't fun. But

Erica: 20:19

she Yikes, you really went through it. Yeah, it's going better now,

Vanessa: 20:23

but then that could be. And then. So I had the surgery on the 28th. And the following Monday, doctor came and took the second catheter out and took the packing out of my out of my vaginal canal. And that was not the shower. Best off girl. It was like the best shower ever. So yeah. And since then, it's just the after that they teach you how to dilate. There's a Do you shower? Yeah, after you shower. Well, it was the next day that I got done. Yeah, sometime very soon after they removed the gang gotta start dilating. Right, exactly. So you dilate three times a day for the first three months. And then for three to six months is twice a day. 612 months is once a day. And after that either a few times a week, or just get laid with something that penetrates. Yeah, a few days. So. Yeah.

Erica: 21:17

What a problem today.

Vanessa: 21:19

The they actually told me to start the second size up of dilator. Now, which feels good to see. And I tried it last night. And it one it was intimidating, because it's quite a bit bigger than than the smallest one. But then when I removed it, it looks like there's a little bit of a prolapse or something. So I took a picture and sent it to my doctor. And yeah, that's my vagina experience. Now I just, you know, dilate three times a day and wear pads and make all sorts of gross things on the pads. So

Erica: 21:55

yeah, it is a full time job. It is for a while it is and it's a lot. It's a lot. So kudos to you for getting what you need done for you. And kudos for you for continuing to deal with it day after day. What I learned after my surgery is like, this is relatively minor care, and I'm already over it. So it made me really think about do I want to go through that?

Vanessa: 22:20

It's, it really depends. Because it's all about the dysphoria that people have, like, I hated. I hate penises period, I hated having one. And like, I don't miss it at all period, like I didn't like, because it was the wrong thing. A lot of trans people don't have dysphoria around having a penis, so but having an orky is just fucking smart, because then you can go off of your testosterone blockers and stuff like that. So

Erica: 22:49

and you would have to be someone have to force you on injections of testosterone to make you go backwards. Exactly. Right. So for me, it was also like a little bit of hedging my bets against the sort of the legal clients

Vanessa: 23:01

claim that I've even seen some things like it some from that, like the really radical, right things where they're like, Well, you know, trans people that have had gender confirming surgery, we're gonna have to reverse that. I'm like, you can't? Yeah, and like, how would you even know?

Erica: 23:20

You can and when you take a look at what's required for trans masculine folks, that's many surgeries. That's not you can't just

Vanessa: 23:28

reverse it. It's major. So yeah. Or keys are, I recommend or keys to any trans person that and unless you plan on having kids, which is a whole other difficult thing to when you've been on estrogen for a while. But if you don't plan on having more kids in orky, it's quick. I mean, the recovery for the first week or so we kind of suck. Yeah. But it's a week. Yeah, it's not a big deal. So I highly recommend or keys, they're there. They're wonderful.

Erica: 24:01

I do want to take a moment and say, for those of you that have not had an organ, and I had already had a vasectomy and my point, so I'm really never Yeah, I had that a long time ago. So I don't have to worry about birth control. Even if you're on estrogen, you can still get someone pregnant. Right? So until you've had that sperm tested to see if you still are making any being careful use birth control. i There's quite a few quite a few trans women out there that have wound up having making children they didn't think they could make

Vanessa: 24:34

all it takes us one. All it takes is one is one good one getting through

Erica: 24:38

there. So don't assume that you can't get someone pregnant, please. Yeah, and even you can

Vanessa: 24:43

well right after you're working my my doctor said that, you know still wait to be safe a month or two left in there. So

Erica: 24:51

that's something that I learned when I got my vasectomy you you have to like they really want you to go at least a month. wiper control. And they recommend three. Now I can tell you after having an orky I didn't want anybody to touch me for a while. Yeah, but also I didn't I personally didn't need to worry about it.

Vanessa: 25:10

Cancel tender down there. Yeah, yep. But yeah, so I mean, again, there's no right or wrong way to transition. If you ignore he's just, it's a great way to get off of those blockers and just not have to worry about it. And it is, it makes talking easier if you talk. So it's all there.

Erica: 25:29

It's, it's barely a thing. It's barely a thing. And for those of you that are considering it, and maybe just literally just had, it might be like a little worried at first, don't worry, things are gonna continue to like shrink in that area. And it will be very easy. Like first like week or two afterwards, you're still quite swollen.

Vanessa: 25:50

You're not going to be tough in the first couple of weeks. So now,

Erica: 25:53

now, like three months in, it's like, easy to get antsy, like, exactly. I don't even like even like when I go to the pool and swim and wear bikini. Like, I'm not worried about

Vanessa: 26:03

how much better it's so much better. I had an orky Last November, so yeah. And they're wonderful. I mean, for me, the veteran, the plasti is fucking amazing. But it is, as I said, it's a full time job. It's a lot of work. And it hurts. I am kind of slouching in my chair here. So it is

Erica: 26:25

it is a major surgery. Let's get that straight. That is was it five hours.

Vanessa: 26:32

Three, but three, that's a fucking boss. So it's a

Erica: 26:36

major surgery, people on recovery as long like major surgeries are and it's an area that is hard not to sit on or used or whatever, plus all the maintenance that comes with it. So yeah, be not not trying to dissuade anybody but be free. Report network.

Vanessa: 26:50

Yes, exactly. You definitely need a support network. So like, it's not a go it alone thing. Yeah. Well, I can't lift any more than like 10 pounds for six weeks post op. And I have a three year old that always wants to be picked up. So good luck. Yeah. So like his grandparents been staying here. And his other mom has been. It's been mostly on her. Just makes me feel guilty as fuck. But you know. So yeah, that's, I guess it's the stuff going on with us. I wanted to give a plug. Some of you may remember Leo Caldwell, who was on our show a few episodes ago. With me. Yeah, yeah. With Leo and Erica. He is now part of an organization called The Research Institute for Gender therapeutics. You can find them by going to our igt.org I feel like I'm doing a voicemail aren't IGT that word? On my headphones. So Liz, and mispronounced

Erica: 27:54

it is pronounced right?

Vanessa: 27:55

Is it fast? Right? Okay. Yeah.

Erica: 27:58

You pronounced it right.

Vanessa: 27:59

There you go. But it's what they're trying to do is normalize trans healthcare in the US, and I imagined it might kind of spread out to elsewhere in the world right now. But we're in the future. But right now, you know, trans healthcare in the US is very divisive, like it's almost Civil War divisive, which is kind of terrifying. But they're looking to they say that gender dysphoria can be a life threatening condition. And adults with gender dysphoria are nine times more likely to attempt self analyzing than the general population nine times. And if you talk to any of us on the show, or you follow just following any accounts of trans people online, Jen gender dysphoria. By starting our transition saved many of our lives. Right now there are no FDA approved treatments for gender dysphoria. And healthcare for gender diverse individuals is often restricted stigmatized in funding to support research has been limited. There's barely any research on trans people, though. Eric is gonna be transferring transit. Transit. Yeah, she's gonna be talking about a wonderful one that Aaron Reed found here in a little bit, but so right is working to research develop and see FDA approved approval of gender affirming treatments,

Erica: 29:40

which is huge. Yeah, it's really important.

Vanessa: 29:43

Yeah, we have to push back against the far right conservatives. They they're making up their own their own dialogue on who trans people are in our care and stuff like that. And they'll latch on to anything one or two, yeah, one or two D transitioners. And use those people as an example for the entire trans community or the millions of us. And when you look at the research, the detransitioning is like, depending on the research, you see, one to maybe 10%.

Erica: 30:22

And an important and an important qualifier in that is that let me say this right across the top, if you d transition, that's an that's the choice you make, that's a great choice for you. Because if the only person that matters is you and your opinion, however, quite a few of people who do Trish transition wind up transitioning again, later. And by and large, it has less to do with not seeing themselves or feeling whole in themselves. It has far, far, far, far more to do with how they've been received by friends and family and the general public. Yeah, it's outside pressure that drives that

Vanessa: 31:01

safety thing come across.

Erica: 31:03

Yeah, when you come across a de transitionary, please, you know, give them your love and support them. Obviously, if they're working for the other side, you don't need to do that.

Vanessa: 31:13

It's hard. So, but they're trying to just normalize trans healthcare. So if you aren't able to support, they're a wonderful organization to support to they're run by doctors. And they are supported by people in the community. I send it to my own my own surgeon because she's very, very involved in the trans community. Yeah. So which is good, because it's Yeah, her job is is you know, performing certain there's,

Erica: 31:47

there's a couple of reasons why it's really important, right? Number one, it's already widely accepted system of care for trans people, right? You know, like, despite what you hear in the media, like 80% of all doctors in the US, and every reputable medical reputable medical organization also supports gender affirming care, right. But if we can get FDA approval for it, it helps break down barriers. Yeah, and make care easier and drug trials easier and care trials easier. But it also, it helps the rest of the world, a lot of the world goes by what the FDA is doing. Now, granted, there are things in other countries that you can get as a trans person that are not not part of our care here in the US. And that's because they have some different laws and different rules and whatever. But generally, if we have FDA approval, we tend to see that starts to populate throughout the rest of the world. So it helps everybody out.

Vanessa: 32:44

Yeah, the US is has a lot of influence on the world for better or for worse. Looking through imperialism. Yeah, that's

Erica: 32:52

called cultural imperialism.

Vanessa: 32:54

Looking at Canada right now they're they're they're turning for the worse. It's kind of scary up there right now. Everybody's going through it right now. Yeah. So

Erica: 33:04

it's no, it's no coincidence that every is also going through white nationalist movements, right nationalist movements right now as well. Thanks, Eduarda. Florida, the UK, Europe, Italy, for example, with white nationalist movements, and actually, since really kind of going down the deep end, I read a really interesting study not too long ago that talks about globally, we see peep countries move towards conservatism and extreme ism, after large events, right. So coming out of the pandemic, what's really shut down the world. It is a natural as a recurring thing that happens after 911 after World War Two, after Vietnam after World War One, countries tend to pull in and they stay get xenophobic, because they need to take care of themselves. And, and naturally, people tend to go too far with that. And that's when white nationalist movements tend to pick up in speed. Right. So and as a part of that, because white nationalist movements are always rooted in heavily rooted in the patriarchy, and especially that Western European Protestant point of view of people need to be very narrowly defined, right? That's when we see the most anti LGBTQ hate happen at the same time. So yeah, as long as that white national movement is thriving, that's as long as this movement is going to continue to really push on us.

Vanessa: 34:30

As I've been saying, five years, I think next five years are gonna be tough, tough,

Erica: 34:36

but we'll get through it. We got through it coming out of the gate ending of the 80s and AIDS crisis of the 90s and had a really good 10 or 15 years. We will get through it. But yeah, so come up again in the future, right. long as these xenophobic movements continue to get some traction due based on local or global events. We're going to keep repeating this cycle.

Vanessa: 34:57

Humanity doesn't learn. It's just kind of What it boils down to be so weird go out

Erica: 35:03

and support, right? Give them your money and give them you know, spread their influence. repost them on LinkedIn. Yeah, it's really it's really good for all of us.

Vanessa: 35:11

Yes, it's it's good for Yeah. All of humanity really. So. Sorry, getting some Oh, nerve pain. So well, then, I guess a good topic, we can start getting into our news things here. You wanted to talk about the study. And the

Erica: 35:38

Yeah, let's do that for ourselves. Probably a little bit shorter than talking about Aaron's current trends map of the US. So she actually recently put a piece out there, I think it was two or three weeks ago, if you go to her substack, it's like four or five articles down. There was recently a study done out of I've got my notes in front of me out of Australia, out of Melbourne, Australia, right. And it's a really unique study in that. It is one of the first times that we're able to have what's considered high quality studies done on on gender affirming care. But before I dive into that real quick, I want to talk about the difference between high quality and low quality, because you hear this a lot, especially in the anti trans hate machine style media out there, right. And so the difference between high quality and low quality ultimately comes down to ethics. Right. And by that, I mean, most studies are low quality because of ethical medical standards. Right. So for an example of, and frankly, most of the medical advances we've been made in the last 50 days, 70 years have been from low quality studies because of ethics in place. And it goes like this. A high quality study is when you can have like a double blind study, total anonymity, where you have a control group and a non control group to test what how one thing is working, and I kind of get around the placebo effect and all of that, right. But when it comes to medical care, that becomes quite difficult to do. For example, you can't trance you can't test a heart treatment procedure by giving half of your group a heart transplant and telling other people they did get a heart transplant when they didn't. That's not an ethical medical way to go. And thus, it cannot be a high quality state high quality study, it becomes low quality, low quality does not mean that it has no quality, it does not mean that we can't talk about the efficacy, it does not mean that it was something we shouldn't follow. It just means that we can't ethically conduct a high quality study because it would be cruel to tell people they had a heart transplant when they didn't. Right. So there's a need to understand the difference in the two. And the media has really, really focused on the idea of low quality because most people don't understand that when by and large, most of our medical treatments come from low quality studies. That doesn't mean they weren't very good studies doesn't mean that they weren't excellent studies, it means that because of ethical standards, we can't tell somebody that we did something that we did not do. Right, especially when it comes to life or death procedures. Right. So this one happens to be a high quality study, which is great, because we didn't put people at risk. We didn't mislead people, they were able to construct a study to test out the effect of gender affirming care to reduce suicidality, right? So this is done out of Melbourne, Australia. The control groups were 24 cisgendered men, 24 cisgendered. Women and if 24 trans woman I'm sorry, trans man math. Yeah. Trans man's right. Because it's testosterone. This is a study on testosterone. And how they went about this study was they, you know, put each group through a measure of how are you feeling about your life in general right now? Or do you have any, is there any suicidality, and within the groups of trans masculine people they actually had? I'm sorry, I'm mixing up two different studies. Sorry. That is a study on brain mapping that I started out with. So let me back up this study out of out of Australia, compared to trans masculine people, that would be on hormones and not on hormones. Right. And so the idea was that each each person in this study identified that they knew they wanted to be on testosterone for their care, right. So the groups were divided into people that would receive that care within one month. And people who were received that care after three months and three months, is the standard operating procedure within Australia, right. So it didn't really change anything for them. And those people didn't know that there was another group that had access to that to that drug within a month. Right. So again, this is how we're ethically taking care of people. We didn't withhold for People longer than what would be the norm? Yeah, right. What we did was we gave access earlier to people than they expected. within that group of people that did get their get HRT, we saw suicidality rates dropped like plummet, whereas within those that did not yet have access to tea, but no, they would have it. Their rates really, of suicidal suicide, suicidal ideation did not really drop, but they didn't really reduce on their own just even knowing right. So it's an excellent, I would definitely recommend you go read arrogance article, right. But something absolutely excellent way to show how access to gender affirming care really helps people's mental state, particularly after being on it, right, because they checked in with those people that had tea after a month, followed up with him at month two and month three at the same rate they did with other groups. And you can really see how just even being on that really changed their perspective and really changed their outcomes. So it's an important study because a if it's the first one we've been able to conduct that's a high quality study, again, high quality comes with what ethically can we do to really get some veracity behind this, but it really shows the, how it reduces suicidality, which is, frankly, one of the most important points that you can you can get on the table in terms of promoting this care continuing to get doctors on board that Medical Associates are on board with it, the FDA on board with it, for example, right? We're showing actual meaningful benefits that people are alive. Right. So that's why it's a really important study, I recommend you go read it. Her articles are great. I think she links the original study, which is if you haven't done much scientific reading, it's a tough one to get through. Coming from a medical background within my family, it's a little bit easier for me, I definitely recommend you consume Aaron's article before you tried to go read a whole bunch of biological stuff. Yeah. But it's a great one to check out. And it's really important because it's one of the first studies, first current modern day studies that allow us to say, by every medical standard, we've met the bar,

Vanessa: 42:04

which is kind of huge. It's huge. Yes, it's absolutely huge. I mean, it's stuff that any trans person there any doctor trans person could have told you already. But this is a great pushback against the just application, flat out fabrications that the fire rate had been doing, especially

Erica: 42:24

and one of their talking points, Vanessa tends to be like, Oh, suicide rates don't go down. They're just the suicidal, no, that's different. People, the suicidality rates are actually quite drastically reduced. Typically, we see higher suicidality rates when people do not have people around them that love and accept who they are, make space for them. Right? Again, it's kind of goes back to why men need most people do transition is because their environment is not friendly to who they are. Right? So it should help break down those narratives. But let's be honest, those people on the far right, the far extreme of this are not going to care about this study, we don't really care about now we care is about as the legal the judicial system that need to uphold Access to Care laws.

Vanessa: 43:07

They can use this study. So yes, it's huge. It's absolutely huge. And I hope that's not going to be the last one. So but

Erica: 43:17

and let me just say this, though, the original study that I was talking about was one that I read last night on brain mapping for for transgender people specifically focused on trans feminine people, it's a great one, you can go look it up, go read it. And it really shows and that's why I was comparing the two because I'd read the two too close together. It's a great study that shows that. And this study was trans women that and it's I'm assuming it would be true for trans masculine people. The when you take a look at brain structures and brain mapping of suspended sis women, trans women tend to be in the between, right, and this is people that were not on hormones yet because we know once you're on hormones, that brain continues to develop in that direction. So it shows that even from a biological standpoint, within our brains, we are different than sis people.

Vanessa: 44:02

Physiological actual. Yeah. And I mean, a trans person could tell you that too. So

Erica: 44:07

totally. But I mean, that was the first benefit that I felt on HRT. My brain worked, right. Yeah. Yeah, within two weeks.

Vanessa: 44:15

It is that fast, because our brains are craving our bodies or feeding our brains the wrong hormone. So when we fix that, it makes a whole lot easier. So so

Erica: 44:27

much better, doesn't solve everything. But

Vanessa: 44:30

but it helps the process. Yeah, it's a major it's, it's a major major step. So

Erica: 44:36

yeah, so yeah, let's get back to you.

Vanessa: 44:40

Yeah. Erica brought you good news. I brought you not so good news. If you follow Aaron we're again Aaron Reed. I'm gonna be linking all this stuff in the description of both the podcast and the YouTube. Aaron is she's I consider her a hero. To the trans community, she lays arguably the leading journalist regarding trans rights in the country, if not the world, and she is engaged to Zoe's effer who is the Montana State House representative that was in the news a lot recently for being censured by the Republicans there. And now she was happy to bring in.

Erica: 45:29

Did you see that? So I think it was yesterday, Zoe announced that she was named two times hot 100 Most Influential People, something like that yesterday.

Vanessa: 45:37

That's amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So in Adam Conover is on that too. I love Adam Conover. And but yeah, and Zoe has actually been like kind of traveling the country right now. She's hanging out with the reps from the ER, they both named Justin. I forget from yesterday, Justin. Yeah, the two Justin she's hanging out with them. And then she was hanging out in, I believe Nebraska with why is my brain forgetting her name. I mean, I've even talked to her through emails, but I stuck with names. I'm sorry. But the one the rep there that has a trans kid that was holding up their legislature.

Erica: 46:20

Oh, I know exactly who you're talking about. And I could not hang on to their name either.

Vanessa: 46:24

I am going to look this up really quick in the email. So I'm putting a long pause here. So I know that cut this out. Nebraska.

Erica: 46:36

This is when we when no one's looking. They won't see this when we flash you.

Vanessa: 46:39

Megan hunt. Megan hunt. Yes. Megan hunt. So yeah, Megan. So Zoey is hanging out with that Megan hunt as well. And that's gonna go. But anyways, back to Erin. I sidetracked myself there. And Aaron has been keeping up for the past couple years at least keeping up a map of Innotrans laws against kids. For this been very informative. And it's a lot of adults have been paying close attention to it as well, because it has those maps had implications for us as well. But trans kids are definitely more have been more under fire than adults. The first domino to fall. Yeah, exactly. Which is so fucking evil. I mean, disgusting, young kids, it is disgusting. But Aaron now has an adult and trans risk assessment map. And it's, it's similar to the one for the kids, the kids, the one for youth is still more dangerous. She has. There are five categories. If you look at the map, the darker blue states are the safest, the light blue ones are hopefully good. And then there's

Erica: 47:59

shades of

Vanessa: 48:01

orange. So actually, there's six different colors now. There's like moderate risk, high risk, and very high risk. And then there's Florida. Black. Yeah. And I mean, this is how the country is divided. Right now we are in a very, very scary time. Where the right is using our, our community, the trans community as their main thing that they are platforming on. And is there is a sharp divide in this country vs safe in that where we are either second class citizens or I mean, hopefully, full citizens in the blue ones, but it's you there's still pushback there as well. Yeah. But there are many states I live in Ohio, which is getting Ohio has kind of considered the Florida of the north. So yeah, we're getting bad. It's just happening slowly. But Florida is now at a point where trans people should not travel there. Trans people that live there are having adults are having their, their care being taken away from them. They can't get hormones anymore, which is essentially state sponsored genocide. So people are fleeing that state. Trans people cannot use bathrooms there. I mean, if you pass really well, you'll probably be okay. But Eric, I love your phrase that I identify with it as well. You pass as a trans person, I understand why I pass as a trans person. So when I go into women's bathrooms I get looks if I went to one of them I could be thrown in jail for a year at this point.

Erica: 49:54

If you refuse to leave the bathroom and and that also means that sis people will So go through that. Right, it's again, it's enforcing what masculinity looks like. It's enforcing what femininity looks like. And you're gonna have, you know, the butch lesbian community is having problems with this, right? The the the sort of effeminate side of the gay community is having problems with this as well, not to mention people that are not part of the LGBT community. It's terrible. Not to mention for us, right, it's, it's awful. It's targeted us. And I think one of the thing that's really interesting about this map is, it's really good indicator of also what's coming next for other groups, right? So if you think, Oh, I don't need to worry about this, because I'm not trans and an airline girl, but I hold trans things. Listen, if you are a, if you're a bipoc person, if you are belong to any type of marginalized community, you are next up on the slate, right, and very much this map correlate to all those places. So please continue to work your intersectionality to support our community. But if you're having trouble getting people on board, work to the intersectionality of all marginalized communities, because this is their roadmap, and why? Because it's easier to get people who don't understand what it means to be transgender. Behind this light, it all started with the whole transgender sports narrative, right? And then kids like mutilating kids, even though no child's having surgery. No, right? Because these are easy, easy things to get the moms behind and get them activated about mutilating Yes. And once you've got them thinking one way on something, you keep getting them other things until you've got them really after what you want. So this is bad for us, but it's bad for every marginalized community. Please continue to consider it consider intersectionality as you go forward. Use this map to let people know that if you're not white, sis, straight male, that's the Christian you are in trouble.

Vanessa: 51:48

is Alice's gonna say that white sis hit Christian males? If you're not that, then you are a target. We are the test group.

Erica: 51:58

Were the canary in the coal mine. Yeah.

Vanessa: 52:00

And they're not going to stop with us. It's it's, it's how it's happened before look at Nazi Germany, they started with trans people, and they make sure they're wrenched out from there. So and they're being fairly successful right now. So I don't know who's going to be next. But it's going to happen quickly. And there's that phrase where I forget exactly how it goes. But it's like, all these people were asking for my help. I wasn't paying attention. And now I need help. And there's no one left to help me.

Erica: 52:34

Right? First, they came for the Jews, then they came for the gays. I think that's the way they're supposed then they came proactive, blah, blah, blah. And then they came for me. And it always goes with they came for X and I did nothing. And then they came for me, but there was no one left to support.

Vanessa: 52:53

Exactly, exactly. And that sounds gonna happen. We have to get back. So I mean, divided

Erica: 53:00

get us fighting against each other. Actually, this is the roadmap if you can get marginalized communities fighting against each other, then you are going to be very successful because we actually make up the majority of people on this planet.

Vanessa: 53:10

We do. We do. Right. But that's the thing that it's that bit. Tucker Carlson just had a key he was talking about how you saying that the the left is a united force and the right is scattered, which it No it's the complete opposite right now. The far right, they are united for us for the most part. And the left's which the American Left it an international level is still pretty centrist. But we are not united we are fucking scattered. We have so much infighting is this, that and the other? Yeah. That is finding our own individual battles. Exactly. And as long as we do that we're vulnerable. We need so show

Erica: 53:56

show up. So women's marches show up to Black Lives Matters marches show up to help combat anti Asian hate, like show up for all of that and ask them to show up for you. Yeah, and if you're part of the LGBT Alliance, Bucky, you

Vanessa: 54:13

that is so sickening.

Erica: 54:17

Well, yeah, shelter during the Stonewall riots.

Vanessa: 54:20

Yeah. Getting the first break. Exactly. There would not be Stonewall without trans people. So but if you're not familiar with the LGBT Alliance, it's the like the LGB forget the T so without the T Yeah, there. They are purposely excluding the trans community, though. Many of us are also LGBT. LGBT as well. Yeah, no, I'm lesbian. But yeah, it's sickening. And I don't know that that's the depressing stuff, but check out the map. Aaron lists state by state with kind of what to expect with each state stuff that's kind of going. Like right now. And since she's read all 532 bills, that target is 532. If you have a Republican, if you can just step back and ask yourself, what is the last thing that the Republican Party did that benefited you? I'm not saying Democrats are because either Democrats suck as well, our two party system sucks. Most of them are corrupt being bought off by people, you know, our presidential candidate selection is piss poor. But it's, it's what we have. It's we have either people working to exterminate us, or people that kind of don't care. And unfortunately, we have to stick with the people that kind of don't care. But the amount of these bills like is this really what you want your representatives to focus on? Joe, not

Erica: 56:05

dealing with the economy, exactly. Dealing this with the state of job affairs, dealing with the homeless drug administration, we're not dealing with the skyrocketing cost of medical care and drugs, we're not dealing with so many things we're not dealing that are in our domestic policies, we're not dealing with our international policies, we are not dealing with the crisis, the climate crisis, like all like they're like, No, the only thing we're dealing with is just fucking over trans people. Yeah, that's all your election dollars, I paid for the last four years.

Vanessa: 56:34

And if you've donated to Trump's PAC, that's all just going to his fucking legal fees. So

Erica: 56:39

the thing, the thing that always gets me that is so wild, about our conservative party, is that when you take a look at that party, you know, by and large it, it exists in every state, but most of it is the swamp that follows the anti trans map that you were just talking about, right. And the people that live there are generally at or near the poverty line, it is wild that that party has talked that those people into giving up government's access to care and support they need, giving up things that will support them down the line, like retirement and things like that reduction of funding for almost every program that would support them, because they've convinced them that if you have these programs, you won't, you won't ever have your shot at a million dollars or, or whatever it is. And maybe if you're if you're in the poverty line, you're not that that shouldn't be a concern for you. Now, you shouldn't be voting to take money and support away from people, you shouldn't be voting for a country that does not want to support the people that live there. When you're one of the people that needs that support. Essentially, critical thinking is to happen. Now the Democrats aren't great as you call it out. None of the parties are great, as you've called out. But voting for a party, that is literally going to make your life harder, that's going to increase taxes on you the lowest percentage of people in the United States. It's a wild thing to do.

Vanessa: 57:58

It really is. But it's brainwashing. It's great. To be there, there's a meme I saw, I've mentioned on the show before, but it shows a woman sitting in a chair punching herself in the face. And it says the capitalist says women who vote conservative. It's your voting against your own interests.

Erica: 58:18

I know women who have voted conservatively that would want abortion to continue. And I'm like, how can how well I can ever vote. Okay, great, then don't vote for a Republican, they're actively trying to take away the thing that you needed and used. I just don't get it.

Vanessa: 58:37

No, the two party systems broken. I mean, in the next decade or two, I really expect things to change a lot. Once the boomers are out, and if people are doing most of the voting. Yeah, exactly. So we need we need Gen X, millennials and Gen Z to show up to the fucking polls. Yes.

Erica: 59:01

But it's also why we need to fight gerrymandering. Yes. It's also why we need to work on like even one of the most effective ways to really change politics isn't at the national level, it is at your local level, pay attention to the people you're voting for that are going to be overseeing those policies and changing those things. You're going to have more effect, voting the right people in there, then you're going to have I'm not saying don't vote for the president, please vote for the presidency. But your vote is going to do more effect locally than it will do nationally.

Vanessa: 59:32

It starts with the smoke words. That's right. That's that's where these people get their stones. That's right.

Erica: 59:39

And that's where federal laws and state laws are enacted and carried out and enforced. Both locally.

Vanessa: 59:48

It's all trickles from there. So okay, well, we are out of time for today. But thank you everyone for joining us. Please let us know what you think of the new format of the show. And yeah, we're just gonna be kind of covering things as they come up, we still will have some themed episodes on I know my surgeon has expressed interest in being on the show, which been amazing episode about gender confirming surgery for the trans feminine or anybody that wants a vagina. Really? That doesn't have one already. And but yeah, we're just going to be it'll be rotating house and we'll just kind of be putting on so let us know what you think of this. We're hoping that that's gonna give us a little bit more of a timely informative thing for people that they might not know. And yeah, like, comment, share, subscribe, share, share, share, share, share, share, share, share. Yeah, we know your

Erica: 1:00:39

friends. Your family, yes. Oh, yeah. Donate. Donate. Donate, please. I told you what she spends on this a month.

Vanessa: 1:00:47

Yeah, I am currently almost $300 in the hole. Personally, I am looking at starting up a and turning transcending humanity into a business I'm looking at starting a Delaware LLC, to have it both as the podcast and also as my personal consulting company. So I can kind of make some money on the sides and then we can kind of legitimize the show and consulting for like diversity and stuff like that. That's kind of on my plans right now. I've been talking with some people about that. So but yeah, that's my plan. But thank you Erica, for being on with me today. I always think you and I make a good pair on the show.

Erica: 1:01:32

A little bit of chaos a little bit of knowledge.

Vanessa: 1:01:34

Exactly. Exactly. So I hope you have a wonderful day and I hope everyone else has a wonderful day or half your day that's what you know as I say but

Erica: 1:01:46

go rest that bottom

Vanessa: 1:01:49

Yeah, I need to get out of this chair before I go again so I'm hoping to go see father Nathan month tonight. Oh yes. I'm trying to find the date for it but if not, I'm gonna go myself even even gives you

Erica: 1:02:02

more room to spread out your crap while you're there.

Vanessa: 1:02:04

Yeah, well, I'm not really supposed to drive but we already have tickets learn learn can't go or so. I don't want to Uber to kind of money so okay, I can be careful driving Yeah, I'm still I'm living off my GoFundMe is right now so but yeah, hopefully I'll hopefully I'll have some news about father Nathan monk. If you don't follow follow him. He's hilarious. So and that's coming from hardcore atheists. So follow him. Thank you so much for joining us have a great day or whatever. I already said that.