Episode 32 - Vanessa was DISQUALIFIED from the Ohio ballot! Was it discrimination?

Welcome back!

Vanessa found herself in the news suddenly, as her candidacy was DISQUALIFIED by the Stark County, Ohio Board of Elections due to an oft-overlooked law requiring candidates who have change their names within the past 5 years to include their former (in Vanessa's case, her deadname) on petitions.

HOWEVER... the 2024 Candidate guide fails to mention this law, as do the petition forms that candidates circulate (they don't even have a place to put an additional name!)

Other trans candidates were certified in other counties; Vanessa was the only one disqualified. The Boards of Elections

Erica and Zach interview Vanessa about her experiences, as well as her plans.

UPDATE: Vanessa has submitted her contestation of her disqualification to the Board of Elections.

Links!

Ohio Revised Code 3513.271:

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3513.271

WEWS TV interview:

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohio-transgender-candidate-disqualified-for-only-including-legal-name-not-former-name-on-petitions

Plain Dealer article (you can get a free 7 day subscription):

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/01/several-transgender-ohioans-filed-to-run-for-state-legislature-a-little-known-law-may-keep-some-off-the-ballot.html

Erin Reed's article:

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/transgender-candidate-removed-from

Transcript

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Erica: 0:00

It's fine. You've had a long day!

Vanessa: 0:01

It has been a very crazy day okay (clears throat) Hello, everybody. Welcome back to transcending humanity. This is episode 32. I'm Vanessa. I am joined by Erica. And Zach, if you two quick do a quick hello.

Erica: 0:21

Go ahead, Zach.

Zach: 0:23

Hi, good to be back. Happy New Year to everybody.

Erica: 0:28

Hi, I'm Erica returning once again to this wonderful podcast, you see my face a lot.

Vanessa: 0:35

All the faces that we'd love to see here tonight. So originally, for tonight, we took a little bit of an extended break because of the holidays. And originally, tonight, we were going to do a trans Joy episode with Erica, because it's been a hot minute. And so hopefully we'll have to do that next time because some things came up here, here in Ohio here, around little old Vanessa. That could have major implications on the trans community at large in the United States. was running for the Ohio House of Representatives, Ohio House of Representatives in district 50. District 50 of 99 districts here. I just slammed my hand on the table.

Erica: 2:09

Yikes!, how many signatures did you have to turn in?

Vanessa: 2:12

I needed 50.

Erica: 2:14

50, Okay,

Vanessa: 2:15

yeah, but they had to be valid. And they check them all.

Erica: 2:18

So what counts as valid?

Vanessa: 2:20

They have to be since I was running as under Democratic primary, they have to be registered Democrats registered voters. And they have to live into districts. So I did my best of that the signatures as I got them. But I also had some people

Zach: 2:38

part of the criteria, because I know some states have laws that the signature has to be nearly identical to the one that was used in the previous election at it. Yes. It can be discriminatory if you if you have a disability, but that's another discussion for another day. I can definitely see that.

Vanessa: 3:00

Yeah, and they have to be with people's names, as is on the voter registration. So dead names, for example. And I had to make that clear, because that did impact a couple of my signers.

Erica: 3:15

So let's, could I stop you for a second? Yeah, because there's a good chance this podcast will be seen by a much wider audience than usual. What is it a dead name?

Vanessa: 3:24

A dead name is the name that a gender non conforming person with a trans NB whatever Yeah, us had before I transitioned, some people choose to keep their names for one reason or another. Dylan Mulvaney has a very good example of that. She continues to use her dead name in Thomas Malone. She also uses her dead name. Correct. But many of us decide to change our names. Like myself legally, I didn't legally write down on my birth certificate, gender marker and all which that's a whole other fight in Ohio. But when we say dead name, we are talking about the name that we had before and that name is dead. It's dead to the world. It does not apply. It is not us. It is in the past. It is poof, it is complete. So Right, correct. Yes. Thank you. That's a very good question. Because many people might not know that. That's another fun thing. I'm going to get into later that my full dead name was published in the newspaper yesterday.

Erica: 4:31

As tied to the issue that you're about to talk about your Yes. Okay.

Vanessa: 4:35

Yes. And awful. Yeah, I'm upset about it. And I'm really upset about the response which I'll read off.

Zach: 4:43

So that they use your dead name in the context of this. of what's going on. It's like trying to slight you right off the bat.

Erica: 4:54

Yeah, a couple things on it. Number one, it's not necessarily to refer to a trans person by their that name, particularly what really in any circumstance, but particularly if they've gone to the trouble to legally change that name. That's not their legal name anymore.

Vanessa: 5:08

Exactly.

Erica: 5:09

That's just an anti anti trans tactic to make things more sensational. Not only does it do that, but now that that your dead name is out there, there's nothing there's an invasion of your privacy, but that heightens the risk of your own safety.

Vanessa: 5:22

It does, it really does. So, I mean, now people know my dead name is in print. So it's not like, I didn't have my name, my name changed, sealed when I had it done, which you can do, but it's extra steps. And in my county, the judge does not like trans people already. So it's, I didn't bother with it would have taken extra paperwork, and publishing in newspapers and all kinds of crazy stuff. So

Erica: 5:51

okay, so you're dead names out there. You're turning in your signatures, they get vetted what happened?

Vanessa: 5:57

What happened after that? So why are we here? Why are we having scammers? Yes.

Erica: 6:00

Why are you here? So

Vanessa: 6:04

they, the deadline was December 20. And yesterday, they went through to certify the petitions and by certify it means they have gone through and checked all the signatures. And for mine, that I had exactly 50. There's the 50th. One was actually kind of hit and miss. There's actually an argument at the BOE over it. But in the end, I prevailed Not that it matters. Boe means our Board of Elections. Sorry. You see, this is why I'm glad I have you guys here. So I got a call. When during the certification, there are reporters in the room, and the reporters call the candidates as they get certified, or in my case disqualified. And they they give the candidates a heads up, it's so they can get sound bites and cars and stuff. So it was just sort of a catch the moment as it happened. Yes.

Erica: 7:05

Okay.

Vanessa: 7:06

So that's how I found out that in Ohio, there is a law, it's a fairly unknown law, where you, if you have changed your name in the past five years, and you're running for office, you are required to put both your current name and your former name, in my case, my dead name on your petition when you fire before anyone signs it. Which, in one hand, I agree with this law, the law is in place to keep people that keep bad operators from changing from making a mess, changing their name, and then running for office under a different name. The law makes sense. The law is very old. And from what I understand, I don't have verification of this. But from an article written in the Plain Dealer tonight. I am the first person in Ohio that they have actually applied it to so far since the 1950s. Since

Erica: 8:13

this law was created, you're the first person to be impacted by this law. And just to check my notes. You're not a bad actor, you're not a criminal. You're not hiding your past, you just legally changed your name to represent who you are today.

Vanessa: 8:27

Exactly. And now, had I known that this was a requirement for the petitions, I would have put my dead name on the petitions. Now I understand many trans people would not like to do that, because we don't want our dead names known. I was passionate about running enough so that I would, I said, Okay, fine, I'll do it. However, the Franklin rose, Ohio's Secretary of State put out a 33 page, candidate guide for 2024 that has all of the instructions that you need to run for office, the types of signatures you need to get, who can sign who can circulate them, where you turn them in? Reporting things, all kinds of things for all the different offices. And once it's in there, no. It is also not on the petition itself, nor is there a place on the petition for it. The petition only has a place for your name. It does not say previous names.

Erica: 9:29

So Wow. So even on the petition you couldn't have written in or whatever, you're dead. There's not a spaceport on there. So the petition is not there. It's not there in the instructions. It's not there in a 33 page

Vanessa: 9:42

guide. Exactly. And so like I could have squeezed it in under my name when I wrote my name on a petition, but there's no place saying there's no space on there says previously known as you know, that's all they have to do. So this is a very obscure law. Which I found out today. When I when, after the reporter called me, as I was getting in the shower, after I got out of the shower, still naked, the part of elections called me. And then they explained what what was going on, where when I filed my PayPal, PayPal, I've been hanging on my toddler too much. When I filed my paperwork. They did not know about this law, either. At the board of elections,

Erica: 10:33

this is your local board of election, my word, this law? How did how did this happen?

Vanessa: 10:39

Because once they were going through the signatures, and plus they have a committee doing it, and there's a lot more people involved in the people at the window, that take it. One person at the office knew about this law and cut it. And due to that, I was disqualified in I agree with that disqualification. Go ahead,

Erica: 11:06

hang on, hang on a second. So someone knew about this law and applied it to you know, knowing that you they knew that you were trans? Guys, I

Vanessa: 11:18

know. Yeah. I mean,

Erica: 11:21

they didn't look at it, did they? Did they communicate that they verified anybody else's signatures and and look for another name in the background? Where did they just single you out with this law? Because they knew you were trans?

Vanessa: 11:37

That I can't answer. Because I don't know what happened, you know, behind closed doors there. So I'm the only one that got disqualified due to it from what I understand. But I could also be the only person who had a name change that ran for office in stark county in the cycle. Okay, so. But I find it hard to believe that someone else throughout all these years hasn't. So they caught that. And that disqualified me, they voted for four to zero to disqualify me. And again, I agree with a disqualification because I understand and agree with the law. Where the issue falls into place, is there are other transgender candidates in Ohio in different districts, three and three others in total, two also ran with their current legal names and did not put their dead names on their petitions. Those candidates were certified. Meaning, and

Erica: 12:43

this is a state law, it's not something specific to your county that goes with your board of elections, a state law has been applied unevenly consistently.

Vanessa: 12:55

And the reasoning behind that is likely because this law is so unknown, that the people at those ports of elections in much smaller counties and what I'm running in, might not have known about it. Now, the implications of this are very severe. And so I'm glad they caught this when they did, because what would happen, what happens if this happens in you get cut, even though I wasn't doing anything like on purpose, where say, I made it all the way, anywhere during my campaign all the way up to me being an office. If someone brought this up, they could report it, I would be removed from office, I would also have to pay back my salary, and pay back all of my campaign contributions, because my entire campaign would have been illegal. The other candidates that were certified, are facing that right now. They could have all this coming back in their faces through no fault of their own. It is the fault of those board of elections. My Board of Elections did the quote unquote, right thing by disqualifying me. They were following the law. So now we have as you said, this lobbying, being applied inconsistently. And it's all just amongst the trans community.

Erica: 14:17

It's the only community that it impacts in this round of election in this round, as far as we know, in the history of this law for highest and specifically disenfranchised as you from serving office for no other reason than a technicality.

Vanessa: 14:35

Exactly. Exactly. So reporters have started reaching out to me the first one was that one from the Canton repository. And they printed a story and they included my entire dead name, including my middle name, which I didn't think that about

Erica: 14:59

what Sorry, it sounds like you're gonna say they didn't ask. Oh, they didn't ask.

Vanessa: 15:05

I only found it because I didn't I didn't have access to the article because it's behind a paywall. And so I found out about it through Morgan tro, who is the reporter for Cleveland NewsChannel. Five, she covers all the Statehouse stuff and she's also part of the queer community. She's, she's an ally, she's a wonderful percent. So okay. We love that. I actually invited her tonight, but she said that she asked everything clear with her bosses since they own her image. So she's a reporter, she's a reporter. Okay. Okay. So I found out through her and I emailed again, repository, both the editor and the, the author of the article saying, Hey, I'm using a trans person instead name without the permission, it's just, it's not cool. And their response to that was, Vanessa, I am sorry, that you're not happy with the name being included. Associated Press style, which we follow is not to use a dead name unless it is relevant to the story. In this case, we concluded that it is relevant because the name is the reason that the election sport disqualified you from the ballot. Media companies, as you likely are aware, do not need permission to publish pertinent facts and stories.

Erica: 16:32

That's just garbage right there. While they can say, because Vanessa's dead name, shilling change name legally, two years ago, it was that it was they were disqualified for running, we won't publish that name, they publish that name for a reason. And they didn't need to, they can run this story without giving your full name. There's

Vanessa: 16:53

all they had to do is yeah, they didn't have to put it. So Morgan, I sent that to Morgan, because she's the cat repository is owned by the same news media group that Channel Five is and everything. So she was obviously upset about this, she's I can't believe they sent that. So she was when she told me I should contact them to have them removed in the first place. So yeah, that's still there. So my entire dead name, clean my bed, middle, the former middle name on there.

Zach: 17:21

Those are the other candidates at risk. Because not only is it a safety issue, but now conservatives can use this to discourage trans people from running or really doing anything significant with their lives. Because you're basically just telling them to go back into the shadows or using their dead name to reinforce that. So this is now going to be or this could be a new tactic by conservatives.

Vanessa: 17:59

I'm gonna get into that later on in

Zach: 18:02

the process. And

Erica: 18:03

I think it goes even a step further than that this is now sanctioned Daxing. For all intents and purposes, no, there are no penalties

Zach: 18:12

against it at all, it's not in any sort of regulation or what have you.

Vanessa: 18:22

So yeah, I'm going to be getting too into that after I finish the story. That's something that we can talk about the implications because they keep going, they're broad.

Zach: 18:30

So you can run, if you can't run, you can always just make this a separate issue. And just, you know, start a whole group around around deeper inclusion of the transgender community. There's,

Vanessa: 18:44

we're working on a lawsuit, and I'll get to that in a little bit, too, once I'm done with my little monologue here. So that was yesterday, they talked to the code repository, and they published the article almost like immediately after that, so and then as I said, I talked to the board of elections, and they told me why and I understand and they told me the repercussions of what would have happened, had I gotten on the ballot, and this got out, me having to be booted from office and get back all the money. That's kind of a big thing. So this morning, I get up, do my normal thing. I go to a real estate, photography, shoot, I get home, my phone rings, it's the Cleveland Plain Dealer calling to ask me about it, because they heard about it in the camera repository, and it's starting to trickle throughout the different news media. So they interviewed me about it, and they had also interviewed some other candidates. And they had also talked to some lawyers. And one of the lawyers that they a Republican lawyer, said as far as he knows, this law hasn't been applied yet in Ohio other until now. That's where I heard that and So after I got off the phone with him, I was contacted by Morgan trout of NewsChannel. Five, and she wanted to do a video interview with me. And I'm like, okay, so because I knew of Morgan Morgan, as I said, she's an ally to the community. She's part of the community. And she covers all the craziness that goes on to Ohio State House, which, if you follow the news, it's been it's been a madhouse since the anti trans legislation has been passed. So I interview was about 45 minutes long, and they cut it down to a 32nd sound bites on the nose, what you have to do. So kudos to Morgan for pulling that off. I have. It takes me forever just to edit this podcast. I can't imagine doing all that editing in just a few short hours and getting it ready for TV. So she added herself, she said. But so I talked to her about everything. And I had talked to her a couple of years in the past when I was attacked by the attack online, not like physically attacked, but verbally attacked by the author of the anti trans kid bill in Ohio. Right? Click Yeah. So. So we kind of reconnected about that. And when I told her that my stepfather is state representative, Bill rummer, her head exploded. She's like, Yeah, so but so we went into details and stuff like that. I am purposely not naming names of the other candidates, this entire thing's up in the air. And I'm not even publishing this episode until after the bounce the certifications, our opposition to the certifications can be finalized. So which is Friday at 4pm. So this episode's coming out after that, but because I don't want to hurt the other candidates. But so I talked to her and I was learning more and more stuff. And the Ohio Democratic caucus, who I talked to, in the past also reached out. And we're going back and forth with that with what my options are. And the Ohio caucus asked me to call the board of elections to see if I can do a right end for the primary. In which they said I cannot do due to the sore loser law. And when I was talking to the Board of Elections, I asked him about this law that disqualified me and why it wasn't applied to other candidates. And they had no idea. So probably for the execs, they're thinking for the exact same reason that it took so long for them to catch up in my case, because people didn't know about the law.

Erica: 22:46

And the question, yes. Okay, considering they're saying, because even though, when you went to collect signatures, you let people know that you are trans as part of the process that like as part of your platform, but because those people weren't informed of your dead name, which would have known meaning to them. Note like, wouldn't be useful information to them at all. Exactly. Right. You're now not qualified to run Precisely.

Vanessa: 23:18

Precisely. So. It my my problem with this entire thing is that was not coming in communicated to the candidates to the point where even the boards of elections didn't know about it. Right. Okay, so

Erica: 23:34

smiled. Yeah.

Vanessa: 23:36

So where we are now, I was featured on both in the Cleveland Plain Dealer tonight and an article and NewsChannel five had me on and on their six o'clock bid. I'll probably provide links to those in the description so people can watch and read those if they want. But the other candidates are freaking out. Because their futures are in the line. And they don't know what to do. So it's kind of a hurry up and wait kind of deal. My plan is I'm working with the Ohio Democratic caucus to hopefully file a lawsuit to fix this somehow be it have the lot changed to provide accommodations for transgender people. Or more simply, I mean, that would be the ideal situation, because then trans people wouldn't have to put their dead names on it. The easier way, the easier quick fix for it would be to just have the candidate guide include that one additional paragraph in 33 pages.

Erica: 24:50

Why? I think you said earlier that if you change your name due to marriage, you are excluded from this law. Is that true if it has been less than five years?

Vanessa: 25:03

Yes. From what I understand that was,

Erica: 25:05

there's already a provision for people who have legally changed their names for upstanding reasons that does not apply to you wouldn't the easiest thing to do would be to admin that law, that part of the law to be inclusive of trans people? I would think so. Yeah. Certainly news for the same reason for people who have changed their name due to marriage.

Vanessa: 25:30

Exactly. So, so that's kind of where we are now. I had the amazing privilege today of Aaron Reed reached out to me, and we talked on the phone. And I got to talk to her. And so we, we love Erin, and so we Yeah, Zach, are you familiar with Zoe's ever? And Yonsei? The name does sound familiar. She's a Montana State House representative.

Erica: 26:02

So yes, and it was quite notable last year for things that went on while they were in session. Yeah, last year,

Vanessa: 26:09

she she got censured by the Republicans, and it was a mess. So I was trying not to fangirl too much. When I was on the phone with them. I was screaming. I can't make the noise from my surgery. I was going to scream. So, and Aaron, if you listen to this, no, I'm not gonna be as the fact that I have your phone number. I'm only gonna use it if I you know. So Erica says hi. So yeah, the next steps are, this is where we can get into our discussion of everything. The implications of this are huge.

Zach: 26:48

No longer you run your campaign before this issue came up.

Vanessa: 26:52

I started collecting signatures shortly ever. Yeah. When I was healed on that, are

Zach: 26:58

you doing? Are you doing basically a solo run? Or do you have campaign staff?

Vanessa: 27:03

Oh, solo run. I know, I have my campaign staff. And like the stark County Democratic Party was absolutely worthless. The chairman would not even return my my correspondence. I, I wasn't even allowed to have the guy's phone number. But

Unknown: 27:16

you know where to go.

Vanessa: 27:18

Google campaigns, I forget who told me but it was someone else talking to it might have been at least Ohio, I think. But she said that running for office is very lonely. And in these early stages. So it was,

Zach: 27:34

but I'm just asking because you had to get, you know, reliable resources and information from somewhere.

Vanessa: 27:41

That's the thing is it's very hard to find reliable information I had to Google and just kind of scrape things together this candidate guide that I was talking about where this law was not in it wasn't available. When I started, I just found some random thing. It said you need 50 valid signatures from Democrats. And that's what I that's how I did it, I printed out the petition myself. And now I know I could have gone to the board of elections and print out the first petition there. But that'd be hour and a half round trip to bring back two pieces of paper when I can just print out my own printer. So I collected I believe 44 The signatures myself. And then I had some wonderful people that also helped me get signatures, so and I

Zach: 28:26

would have been hitting the streets in the fall just to shake as many hands and get as many names as possible. That would

Vanessa: 28:34

be possible in an area where it would be safer to do that. But I'm a trans woman in a very red area, and there's a very high likelihood of me getting shot. So I was very careful with how I got my signatures is mainly grassroots through through social media. And then I had signing parties and stuff like that, and I was only able to scrape together 65 It was very difficult and signatures. Yeah, it took you a while. It did. It did it took me good. You know, two and a half months. You doing this just me and then a couple of people that also helped circulate so which was wonderful with them, and I wouldn't have been able to do it without them. But the most stark County Democratic Party was almost absolutely zero help. So which pissed me off? But

Erica: 29:28

you got that there's a lot of these local elections make you prove that you deserve their help.

Vanessa: 29:33

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And now the Ohio Democratic House caucus the they are very upset about this because they didn't know about it either. And they're mad at themselves for not catching it for all the candidates. So that's why they're hopefully they're gonna help me with a loss. I can't afford a lawyer but Democratic Party should be able to to work with someone like the ACLU and get this done. It's gonna

Zach: 29:57

be needed for their image, especially in this election. And please help us.

Vanessa: 30:04

So where we are, is, this is a wild precedent where there were multiple candidates, one of them disqualified two that weren't disqualified? Are they going to get disqualified is suddenly pulled in to allow them to stay in? I don't know. But this has implications nationwide, not just in Ohio, because if Ohio has this law, it's a pretty common sense law, that changing it, you can't change your name and run for office. Okay. But it seems like

Erica: 30:34

that's probably in place in one form or another across probably quite a few of our states

Zach: 30:39

exactly how many red states this law is, and you'll see where it goes.

Vanessa: 30:46

So the implications are terrifying for the trans community. Because if this law is in other states, as I was saying, the unless the instructions are on their candidate instructions and on their petitions, which they are not in Ohio, they likely will won't know that they have to put their dead names on their petitions as well. And they could get booted off. So you know, the Republican party's gonna latch on to this and be like, Okay, this is how we keep trans people from running.

Zach: 31:19

And I believe you brought this up to Erica, but it's also a form of Daxing. Because you could find any law information on someone just by Googling their name.

Erica: 31:31

Yeah, by having Vanessa's, full previous name out there all three names, tying that probably you probably have to give residential information. They know what areas like, oh, yeah, that's they have a lot of keys, they have a lot of keys to the kingdom as a result of these articles being published, and asking someone to have to who's legally change their name, to have to publish their previous name, which there's no legal precedent for you to have to publish what your legal name is, once it's been changed. You need no longer need that name for any reason. Right? Exactly. You're basically forcing people to give away their privacy even in running for public office. Right. Even people in public office have the rights to privacy and what so much of what people would need is out there on you now Vanessa, because of callousness on the court on the on the part of reporters and this law and the election board.

Vanessa: 32:31

Yeah, yeah, there's

Zach: 32:32

no law that there's there are no consequences for for using somebody's using somebody's dead name against them as black male, or threatened to threaten them in some way?

Erica: 32:50

No, not until someone takes physical action against you will, will they people run a fall afoul of any? Because

Zach: 32:58

you want to get ahead and start on? Yeah. So you don't have to wait and see a tragedy or a few tragic things to actually do something. Yeah. And also,

Erica: 33:08

this was done your your dead naming Club, which was done without your consent. Exactly.

Vanessa: 33:13

Exactly. And right. There's no reason for them to use it in the article, no reason at all. They said it's pertinent to the article. No, all they had to do is say, is Vanessa used to have had a different name before, they didn't need to print the entire name? And in fact, they're not retracting. It is.

Erica: 33:32

As you said, we know why they're not retracting it.

Vanessa: 33:34

We know. Exactly. It's a red paper in a red area. So Right. So yeah.

Zach: 33:42

All the money.

Erica: 33:45

Let's see, what other implications do we need to consider, right? You've already talked about likely versions of this law, or in quite a few places and states across the nation and trans people and anybody else that this might affect? Yeah, needs to be aware of this law wasn't applied on equally across your own state. And people were quite uninformed about about it. Are there any other implications we need to cover?

Vanessa: 34:14

Well, one, the candidates that are still on their futures are their entire stake. Yeah, their entire candidacy is at stake, because they are now at the point where it's time for them to start campaigning, because the march primaries coming up. We're only three months away from that now. So they have to start campaigning, they have start getting donors, they have to start getting support. They have to start hiring staff. I know one of them already has staff. And all this money might have to get returned.

Erica: 34:47

Yeah, yeah, there's all of that. And I think the other thing that's really worth addressing here to me is that while the roots of this law makes sense It certainly wasn't originally intended to impact trans people. It does. Right. And as a matter of fact, it does not apply to people who have changed their name for other reasons ie marriage. Yeah. Right. So it's not only been been applied evenly in the state of Ohio and has a specific purpose for being existed for existing, but you've been disenfranchised in a way that other people who wouldn't be if they didn't happen to be trans, and in this situation, if that was your married legal name, or your married birth name, we would not be in this situation, you would not be in this situation, and neither would the other two candidates.

Vanessa: 35:39

We would be on a campaign trail. I had enough signatures to be on the ballot. I could have been. Yeah, I could have helped flip Ohio people. And now I can earn

Erica: 35:51

the Yeah, you earn the right to be represented. And other women, perhaps are on the ballot, who may have recently changed their name legally due to marriage. And they're not impacted by this law. But you are. Yeah. From what I understand. It's like a title nine infringement.

Vanessa: 36:08

Yeah. So yeah, that's where this I have a feeling is going to catch national news pretty quickly. So your little Vanessa might be more infamous. And she wants to be careful. Yeah. So so because I know Aaron, Aaron Reid's gonna be covering I talked to as I said, I talked to her today. I gave her to details. And she asked for some more information when I get it, like the actual decision letter and stuff like that. So because it's big in it, you're probably going to start seeing this on national news, I would say as soon as next week. Yeah.

Zach: 36:50

Campaign campaign season is already underway. So look out for, for the candidates to start talking about it or referencing it in some way.

Vanessa: 37:05

I mean, now the there is a Republican candidate in my district, so he's running unopposed now. Now, when I talked to the Board of Elections today, the Board of Elections in stark County, I have to say, any of them listening, you are wonderful, you've been so nice to me, they've been so accommodating, they've answered questions, their understanding, they feel horrible about this whole situation to so I believe that direct the associate director, the acting director, whatever she is, I believe she's a Democrat as well. But they told me that there is a someone that is supposed to be filing as a right end for district 50. So fingers crossed, hopefully, we can have that. And if that's the case, I'm gonna throw my way in and behind that person. Anything that I get out of this, I want to help push towards them in order to help their campaign, if it helps, if it hurts them, I don't know, it

Zach: 38:03

might be that might be a good way, or a better way to raise your profile, because you'd be doing it for yourself. But you'd also be spreading your influence among a community that's still very much in the shadows.

Erica: 38:17

Yeah, your goodness,

Vanessa: 38:19

I'm afraid my name is going to be on the news all over the place. Because I'm the one that was impacted by this. And I'm kind of afraid of what's going to happen. Now. Maybe I can spin this around and turn it in some paid speaking gigs, because your girl still doesn't have a job. So maybe, but

Zach: 38:38

I mean, you. You've made history already by being the first, the first person to be affected by this law. that's older than a lot of us. So

Vanessa: 38:48

yeah. So that's for sure. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it's I mean, Ohio is already making history of for transgender candidates running this year, for which I mean, one of the things I talked to Morgan about, she's like, why are you running? And I brought up Nazi Germany. And the Nazis started with us. The Republicans are starting with us. And I'm running because we can't count on others to protect us. Yeah, the we have to be able to help ourselves, be the change you want to see, in essence. So you

Zach: 39:26

amplify that message, even if you throw your way behind somebody else. Exactly.

Vanessa: 39:31

Exactly. So we can't Ohio has Republican supermajority. The and I the anti trans youth bill was vetoed by our governor. Yes. And yeah, good. Good on to wine. I hope he did it for the right reasons. He said he did it because he could not look the parents in the eyes that he talked to, and sign it.

Erica: 39:55

Now to also listen to the to the actual professionals. Exactly.

Vanessa: 40:00

Well, Sue could speak on this. Now Trump, of course, attacked him and talked about genital mutilation and all that wonderful stuff, because that's Trump. But from what I have heard the, the General Assembly was not supposed to reconvene until the end of January, but now they are reconvening sooner in order to vote to override the veto. And Ohio has a Republican supermajority. That's how they got this passed. They were from what I understand there were two Republican House representatives and one Republican senator that did not vote for the bill. So the three of you, thank you. Wonderful, thank you. But there are whispers that the override might not have as much Republican support now, as it did before. Because of all this outrage because of the press. It's gotten because of what to mindset. So this, as you said, it's like trust the professionals. So trust

Zach: 41:01

anyone, the bad PR the national level, either. Yeah, that's where this was going.

Erica: 41:06

So and it's been a losing proposition for a while now, and particularly this year. So you and you know, polls across the US show that even Republicans are not that interested in this issue. It's really an extremist wing of the Republican Party that is, and they keep pushing it hoping it's going to get some votes. And I think probably sensible Republicans

Vanessa: 41:29

are really care. Yeah, that's one

Erica: 41:33

thing about what happens, you know about disenfranchising trans people, they, they don't they care about the economy, they cared about their jobs, they care about inflation.

Vanessa: 41:44

That's one thing I talked to Morgan about in the interview that didn't get on TV. So again, 45 minutes, but under 30 seconds, there's only so much you can fit. But was that I refuse to believe that 50% of Americans want the trans community eradicated? I refuse to believe that same. I think the vast majority of them, if they don't accept us, just don't care. Just and they were Yeah, they were I perfectly happy with people not caring about us. I don't want people to hear about the trans community existing. You know, so, yeah, that's kind of and we got off topic there with that, but

Zach: 42:26

they're, like, get it completely it just like, leave me alone. Yeah, yeah. We we love we love our if you don't need to, you know, we love

Erica: 42:35

our passionate allies. And those that accept us, those that are indifferent are, that's fine. But if you're actively working against us actively working against us existing, that's a problem. Yeah. If you're a Republican that doesn't really have an opinion on on transgender people. Then stop voting for our erasure. Yeah,

Zach: 42:56

and the majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, I really think that they're thinking about bathrooms and sports and, and trans candidates running for for office, they might be but I'd be more concerned about having to choose between paying my pay my rent or putting food on my table.

Erica: 43:18

Building good relations, expanding our legislative dollars to push transgender women in particular out of sports. You know, how many people in professional sports are transgender women? I think there was less than 20 nationwide. And in most states, there is a handful of amateurs. If you care about women's sports, we'd be caring about pay, equity, how they're treated, funding all of that, not about two to three trans people in a state competing.

Vanessa: 43:48

Yeah. And they're spending all their time and effort on it. In the in the Federal House. Republicans didn't pass anything. Last year. Nothing got done, except for trying to impeach impeach Biden. And so what you're voting, which even some of them didn't want to do? Yeah. And so I'm talking to Republicans now Republican voters. I know that you traditionally like to vote along party lines. But look at what your party is doing. Are they really acting in your interest? What are they doing that benefits? You? You personally, my primary platform when I was when I was planning on running was not going to be on trans issues, because that's people in my district don't care about trans issues. Right. My platform here in Ohio, was to find a way to provide universal childcare in Ohio.

Zach: 44:47

Which basic human rights. Yeah, yeah.

Vanessa: 44:51

And universal childcare in Ohio. That impacts so many people that would bring no industry to Ohio because people would want to live Hear, and I would suggest to be paid for by corporations and the wealthy, not the average person. So right now, it's only available to very few select people. Very few. Yeah. And so many parents struggle, Republicans want babies born, but they don't want anything to do with him afterwards. So that was my platform, which I, that platform I felt would be popular amongst Democrats and moderate Republicans, because in order to win my district, I would have had to sway many Republicans because there are more Republicans here there are Democrats. So that's where I was going to meet in the middle. I don't like party politics, party politics, I just strange country, the two party systems horrible. I don't like Democrats, either. We all know that.

Zach: 45:42

So let me ask you a question about meeting in the middle. A little one, when the other side is completely extreme.

Vanessa: 45:50

Oh, I'm not talking about nagging Republicans. I'm talking about moderate Republicans. There's no meeting in middle with the with the far right, extremists. I wasn't economics

Zach: 45:57

monitoring are there? Actually, I

Vanessa: 45:59

would say there are quite a few. I think the mega Republicans are in the minority. But they're loud. So I think most people just most of them, I don't

Erica: 46:09

care. I know quite a few moderate and centrist Republicans that are not big fans of the Maga crowd, but they vote along those party lines, so they feel dragged into it. Exactly,

Vanessa: 46:20

exactly. That's why I say I refuse to believe that the majority of Americans want to eradicate us. So what do you think you two, since this is now something that the Republican Party can latch on to, this is a powerful weapon they have against us? What can we proactively did proactively do as a community, be us in the trans community allies? What have you to say, stop this to help get candidates for this election cycle, it's going to be too late for everybody. Now, we're probably going to see trans candidates across the country get disqualified. Because of this now that these, if there's situations like this in Ohio, yeah,

Zach: 47:10

I would partner with organizations, or look to partner with organizations that can provide community resources or can direct the trans community to where there are inclusive community resources. You know, it's not just, it's more than than medical, it's mental, it's physical, it's emotional, It's spiritual. So, one way to do this would be to team with organizations, local organizations, that can direct trans people to resort to community resources.

Erica: 47:50

I agree with that. And I think that, um, you know, that sort of level that you're talking about there, Zach, that the Democratic board, because let's be honest, in spite of every state, if trans people are running, they're going to be running on the Democratic side of the of the spectrum. Look into all of these laws, look into all the ways someone can be pushed off the ballot can be disenfranchised, through loopholes through ways that are unintended, right? This is obviously the law that I had no idea existed even in your state, even though I don't live there. But it kind of makes sense that it does. Yeah, so how many other things like this are there out there? And we need to be understanding all these things that govern local election, because let's be honest, local elections, your your State House of Representatives, your various members of the court system locally, are going to be elected in a county. And if we don't understand those laws and how they are deployed across the state, we can forget about getting trans people to a national election. Yeah. Yeah, right. It's those board of electors, the people that run those parties in their state should make an effort to understand all these ways that these laws can be used against us.

Vanessa: 49:08

Yeah. I was informed

Erica: 49:10

people so they don't get caught up in this. Yeah.

Vanessa: 49:14

I was talking to another one of the candidates. And I said, the Board of Elections failed us by not knowing these laws, they failed us. i What should have happened when I went to turn in my signatures? Is they should have said, is this your is necessarily your has this been your legal name for the past five years? And I would have said no, when I when I went back to turn in some financial paperwork that was required. I remember to bring with me my court order name change, because I'm like, well, I need this for my driver's license for everything else. So I might as well let them have this on on record. And even then they're like, well, we don't really need this, you know.

Erica: 49:59

So you took it absurd reform them. Yeah, just not in the very specific way they wanted you to.

Vanessa: 50:05

So in Ohio, this law needs to be printed on the candidate guide. There's no reason for it not to be there. It needs to be clear, the candidate guide should be very comprehensive, but it's not. And it's should be printed on the petitions too. It's the entire system is very heavily or honestly, were trying to get information on how to run and everything. It's just hard. And as Erica, you said, until you actually get a certain distance, people aren't gonna take you seriously. So no one took me seriously until now. I have reporters. Yeah. And before this, it was just me and a couple, a couple of local queers getting signatures. So. Yeah. So this is kind of scary for the trans community. I believe Aaron Reed is going to be covering this and the implications of it. And we'll see over the next week or two, if this comes out on a national level, I mean, I hope it doesn't. But I would not be surprised to see, you know, articles about this and CNN popping up. I wouldn't be surprised if I start getting phone calls from from national national publications. Because it's, it's kind of a wild situations. I didn't want to any of this to happen. I just wanted to run for office, you know, I wanted to try to make a change in Ohio. And now I'm in the middle of this frickin conspiracy.

Erica: 51:44

So as a as an upstanding, law abiding citizen who followed all the rules that were made known to you. That's that's what you were after is exercising your right to represent. Your local government.

Vanessa: 52:00

reinstates heck?

Zach: 52:01

No, if they were applying this law correctly, is it a matter of it sounds like it's just a matter of why which to make it more inclusive to the transgender community. Yeah.

Vanessa: 52:14

Yeah, they could make it. It's, I don't know what language you would need to have. I'm not a lawyer, obviously. But

Zach: 52:20

I'm sure you know, if you read the bill, online, and, you know, there's the there's probably a way that they can attach an amendment to it to change to change the language, it would take a lot of heavy heavy lobbying on your on your part. But that's one route. I would go. Well,

Vanessa: 52:41

how can I read the statute to you, too, it's not very long. Yeah. So it is section 35.1 35 13.271 of the Ohio Revised Code. The latest, the latest version of it was effective August 22 1995. From House Bill 99, of the 121st General Assembly. So the text is as follows if any person desiring to become a candidate for public office has had an has had a change of name within five years immediately preceding the filing of his Statement of Candidacy, both his Statement of Candidacy and nominating petition must contain immediately following the person's present name, the person's former names any person who has been elected pronouns,

Zach: 53:31

what's that? Well, all they have to would all they have to do is change the pronouns from what

Vanessa: 53:36

I understand from a lawyer. The pronouns don't mind don't matter. It's the reason I emphasize saying his it's just because there's a lot in Ohio, you know,

Erica: 53:48

it's included women.

Vanessa: 53:50

Exactly. So

Zach: 53:52

hope what would increase inclusivity? So

Vanessa: 53:55

yeah, I understand that. That's why I highlighted that because it's just funny because I'm legally female. But so. But his Statement of Candidacy and nominating petition must contain immediately following the person's present name, the person's former names. Any person who has been elected under the person's changed name without submission of the person's former name, shall be immediately suspended from the office in the office declared vacated, and shall be liable to the state for any salary the person has received while holding such office. The Attorney General in the case of candidates for state offices, the prosecuting attorney of the most populous county in the district, in the case of candidates for district offices, and the prosecuting attorney of the county indicates of all that a candidate shall Institute necessary action enforces section. Now, the second part, this section does not. This is answering your question. This section does not apply to a change of name by reason of a marriage to a candidate for a state office who was once complied with this section and who has previously been elected to a state office. As to a candidate for a district office who was once comply with this section and who has previously been elected to a state or district office, to a candidate for county office, who is once comply with this section is in has previously been elected to the state district or county office, a candidate to for a municipal office who was once comply with this section in his previously elected municipal municipal office, or to a candidate for a township office who was once confined to this section and previously been elected to a township office, provided that such previous election was one at which his candidates candidacy applied with this section. So they actually answering questions. Yeah, it does specifically exclude name changes for marriage. So, yeah, here we are. And the language of this of this bill is so old, that it is gendered as his because they are not expecting women to run. In here we are, I am disqualified from office due to this. And, yeah,

Erica: 56:01

another another woman would not be No. Marriage.

Vanessa: 56:07

So here we are. That is hospital 99 of the 121st, General Assembly, Ohio Revised Code section 35 13.271, if you want to look it up. And that's where we are. And I am sure there.

Zach: 56:25

It's been almost 30 years.

Vanessa: 56:27

It's been almost from what I understand the original version of this law has been in place since the 50s. So you know, where we're 70 odd years in here. So it's, it sucks. I'm upset. I spent yesterday to fighting back tears, because this was It'd be one thing, if I didn't have enough valid signatures to get on the ballot. You know, that? Okay, fair enough. You know, I tried, I failed at getting signatures. I had enough signatures, I should be on the ballot to run for office. But this obscure law has kept me from doing it, me and only me. So, all right. Well,

Erica: 57:14

hey, Vanessa, we're with you on this one, the way this was applied across your state and to you personally is is wrong, especially considering what's already written into the law that allows for, you know, other people to not be caught up in this issue. Please keep us informed. Please let us know what we can do for you. I will I, you know, I hope I hope the whole democratic community shows up for you to support this. This is something that needs national attention.

Vanessa: 57:43

Yeah, I'll be providing updates. As they come up. You know, I'm also kind of exhausted from all this, you know, my phone ringing off the hook. And I was trying to, I was trying to edit photos today. And I'm getting interviewed by reporters. And so I mean, people, it's, you know, you can follow me on social media platforms at Venice rattle. It's always in our description here. You're curious to see how things are going. And, I mean, I'm hoping that this doesn't make national news, but I'm pretty sure it's going to so yeah, see, yeah, this is not how I was hoping to get transcending humanity on the map. But maybe we'll get a couple of listeners and maybe a couple Patreon subscribers out of this, please subscribe to Patreon. And I can't afford this keep supporting the show. It's expensive.

Erica: 58:30

And if you listen to this one, there's 31 other episodes that are

Vanessa: 58:34

exactly. And it's a great show. We have this great staff here, and we rotate for those that this is the first time you're listening. We have different hosts every week, or I guess we publish every other week now. But we cover all sorts of topics that are important to the trans and queer community and our allies, like from travel to finding work to bathrooms, we've had a couple episodes on bathrooms. And then Eric has trans Joy episodes, which they are much needed breaks from the horrible stuff that we wind up having to talk about. So in order to

Erica: 59:09

and we have quite a strong point of views from our trans mask and non binary. Yes, exactly. And from our allies. Then we have Zach with us and we have quite a few others. So it's not just to white trans ladies on here.

Vanessa: 59:23

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, listen to our back catalogue, everything's available on podcast platforms if you're listening to that or if you see this on YouTube, we have it all on everything's on YouTube so like, comment subscribe, rate us please we need to grow

Erica: 59:43

share this share far and wide so the story gets out there this

Vanessa: 59:48

is this is this is a wild story. It's I never expected to be in a position of making history like this but this is a cannabis history making kind of thing me and the other the other candidates because they're affected as well, if not, I would say arguably worse than I am, because they are now exposed. I at least have some sort of definitive conclusion I can't run. So who knows what's going to happen? So, to either of you have final thoughts? Um,

Erica: 1:00:22

I mean, I think generally, like, from the perspective of this law, I get why it's in place. I don't understand why it is being applied unevenly, and why people on your specific board of elections could be aware, well, the person who was could be aware of how to apply this law, who not to apply it to, and still apply it to you.

Vanessa: 1:00:49

That's a problem. It is. It is. Zach, you got anything?

Zach: 1:00:55

Um, I mean, I've basically been stating my thoughts this whole time. But honestly, I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't stop. I'd take a breather and everything. But I would, you know, either try to get your name. As of right. And if you can't do that, then get behind an ally. Yeah. And, you know, just reinforce this message throughout their campaign, and maybe you'll come back stronger, and the next time around, because you'll have more of a presence.

Vanessa: 1:01:30

That's my hope. I am completely I cannot run my campaign is dead. I cannot run this right in either. The board of election meeting.

Zach: 1:01:38

Not so But

Vanessa: 1:01:42

what's not your your campaigns

Zach: 1:01:44

because could become bigger than yourself. So

Vanessa: 1:01:46

yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. And, yeah. So, um, but yeah,

Zach: 1:01:53

I'm hoping to know, we're on the frontlines of the culture wars. So

Vanessa: 1:01:56

I never expected that. So yeah, here we are, I will, you know, as things progress, I'll probably be interjecting in like little tidbits and episodes in the future, as I learn more. But yeah, this is it's a wild situation. So thank you, both of you for joining me. Thank you, everyone for watching and listening. If new listeners again, welcome. I hope you liked what you heard. And check out our back catalogue, which this is a fun show. We've had some we've had some pretty we've had some pretty fun times and some interesting conversations and it's very varied. So

Erica: 1:02:41

usually a little less serious than less but still a

Vanessa: 1:02:43

little less serious. And a whole lot more cussing. This is I think, our first episode where Vanessa sailor mouth did not get introduced. So we're trying to keep it kind of PG, but so yeah, thank you, everyone. Have a wonderful day. Have a Happy New Year. And keep on keep on keepin on, keep on fighting and don't let the heat overwhelm you. By right on