Episode 35 - THIS IS SAPPHIC SPARTA!!!!

Vanessa and Taryn are joined by a gaggle of trans femmes to talk about trans femme stuff. Does it get raunchy? You'll just have to listen to find out! Vanessa tries to guide the conversation a bit, but honestly winds up putting her foot in her mouth a few times... 

Our guests:

Charli Kate
Gemma
Jacqueline
Stefanya
River Rowan (IG @cupcakehelsword)

River is co-hostess of the TransSpotting podcast (we've had another one of their hostesses, Marcia, on the show before)! Check them out at www.transspotting.com! You can also find her music on major music platforms under her band name, Bury the River!

Transcript

Vanessa: 0:00

loosen up everybody. You look so like, scared.

River: 0:06

If this is the sapphic episode, then I'm gonna get limbered up here.

Vanessa: 0:11

There you go.

River: 0:12

All right,

Taryn: 0:13

stretch

River: 0:14

and stretch it out.

Vanessa: 0:18

Let's Stefanya, you can just ask Taryn about her necklace. You're muted girl. Stefanya, you're muted,

Jacqueline: 0:28

but not through zoom.

Vanessa: 0:30

Yeah. Not through zoom. Your mics not working? While, she figures that out.

Taryn: 0:35

I'll tell you about my necklace.

Vanessa: 0:36

Yeah.

Taryn: 0:37

Oh, um, my girls and I get together every Solstice and exchanged gifts. And usually those gifts are from companies run by historically marginalized communities. So ours, black community, brown communities. And so we some stuff my sister does from LA, I got this for me. I don't know if y'all can see it. But it's an indigenous some made necklace. She got me through a loan for Solstice. And it's a local indigenous artist in LA.

Stefanya: 1:07

Cool. Can you hear me Now,?

Vanessa: 1:09

we can kind of hear you you're a little bit staticky but

Stefanya: 1:13

oh, Lord, okay.

Vanessa: 1:14

Ah, I know it's modern technology. It's it's

Stefanya: 1:19

How about now, is that better?

Vanessa: 1:22

Yeah, that's

River: 1:23

how many tech how many tech girls are in the house

Gemma: 1:25

I always thought we have more. Like the more we know right now. about tech, the more ways it can go wrong.

River: 1:36

Oh, yeah, for sure. I yeeted most of my smart devices after I got too frustrated with them.

Charli Kate: 1:45

I need to do that. I need to do that so bad.

Vanessa: 1:48

I just love the word"yeet". I mean, that's something that yeah, I, I have adapted that from Gen Z. You know,

Stefanya: 1:57

I only learned the meaning of that a couple of years ago.

Vanessa: 2:00

It's it's such a wonderful word. You know, the estrogen makes us look younger. So we might as well start absorbing the knowledge of the younger generations. So, uhm

River: 2:12

How very mind flayer of you.

Vanessa: 2:16

I know. I turned Karlach into a mind flayer and I feel guilty about that. My next playthrough I'm totally gonna fuck Karlach.

Jacqueline: 2:23

Oh, she's perfect just as it becomes in.

River: 2:26

So choice.

Jacqueline: 2:27

I did Shadowheart the first time but it's she's so clingy. I've not done anything with any of them yet.

River: 2:37

Yeah. And in our household we call shadow heart shadow fart because she was kind of a deck the first playthrough

Vanessa: 2:44

I mean, she's kind of a dick anyways

Jacqueline: 2:46

, around the internet. And my girlfriend, one of my girlfriends lady.

Vanessa: 2:52

See, here's the sapphic stuff. So I'll do the quick intro. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to transcending humanity. This is episode 35. We're pushing a year old already. I have to see exactly where we are already in here. I think it's sometime in March. But it's currently Valentine's Day. Or I guess this would be Galentines day. Oh. a trans femme episode and asked to see if anyone wanted to join us. And I have this group of lovely ladies you recognize Taryn, you might know Riv from the TransSpotting podcast, and my thirsty comments a lot of her posts because I've been trying to get in her pants for the past few months, just like you already know, I've been trying to get in Taryn's pants. Maybe just a little triad there. Riv suggested we call this sapphic Sparta. So, so that's just what we're going to be calling this we're just going to be just having fun. And you can just kind of get to know what goes on in the heads of trans girls. Which is

River: 4:48

I'm so sorry.

Vanessa: 4:48

yeah. I don't really know if a whole lot goes in our heads but 15 seconds or something. So start with Charlie.

Charli Kate: 5:07

Hi, I'm Charlie Kate. I usually they pronouns. I'm a small business owner in the tabletop gaming space, and just a general nerd all around. I brought everybody a Valentine's Day or today that's my daughter for my daughter. It says I'm over the rainbow for you. So hi, everybody. I

Vanessa: 5:27

Stefanya!

Stefanya: 5:28

Okay. Hi, Stefanya Crazy? I've been transitioning for about five and a half years now. She her pronouns, work in IT. not sure what else to say.

Vanessa: 5:46

You're here. You're queer!

Stefanya: 5:48

Here I am! This is me!

Vanessa: 5:51

Taryn!

Taryn: 5:52

Hi all, marketing leader. And part time trends minutes, sometimes full time, depending on the trolls

Vanessa: 5:59

Always full time. Riv!

River: 6:02

Hi, I'm Riv, short for River! I do the TransSpotting Podcast; Producer and CO creator. And I also have little recording artists name of Bury the River. It is metal so you know Gird your loins. My day job which I'm currently playing hooky from right now is an IT help desk manager. So yeah, I'm a stereotype.

Vanessa: 6:30

Yeah, check out Riv's stuff. Are you on Spotify? Do I know you can find be found on Apple Music?

River: 6:35

Yeah, all the things all the places check for every music place. It's

Vanessa: 6:41

it's good. on Spotify. It's definitely there.

Gemma: 6:46

Alright, so I'm Gemma. She/her and technically a contracting Python developer. Although my unofficial job title is corporate Dom, although that's kind of in the sense that I like well, in the fact that corporations generally need me more than I need them I'm trying to think of anything else useful is also Autie ADHD. Dog, not dog auntie.

Stefanya: 7:39

Sounds Like you're not from the US.

Gemma: 7:42

I mean, England, although I did actually actually run away from the US. And transition there. used to live in upstate New York, or technically Central New York if you're not from New York State. It's upstate New York.

Vanessa: 7:57

New York State. From one side of the country for trans people to another shitty country for trans people back to another shitty country for trans people. It's just a circle of life. Yeah. Yeah. And last but not least in your only last because you happen to just be the last person on my screen, Jackie.

Jacqueline: 8:15

Not the last person on my screen. Oh, yes. But hey, y'all drag on foot Jackie's Fine. Be her pronouns, I also reinforcing stereotypes working in it. I lead a team around the world delivering apps and websites to banks and credit unions. And then on the side, I teach at local universities, including a little local Catholic University. That's an adventure of WoW, legal documentation. And why don't a women's pro sports the ones I do?

Vanessa: 8:47

Yeah, we should talk more about that. Because that's kind of, as I said, top energy but so. So, yeah. Well, now we're at the awkward pause. What the fuck do we talk about?

Taryn: 9:02

I felt like things I wanted to share.

Vanessa: 9:04

Yes, do it.

Taryn: 9:06

So like, I know, we all journey through life, right? And kind of just we're holding our own. We're doing our jobs. We're doing our activities. Like I it's hard for me to always understand the impact that I have on others. And the last couple of weeks, I had two really nice conversations. So I was in Utah a couple weeks ago. I'm probably my last trip there, if they pass a bathroom bill. And, you know, it's talking so I was doing a marketing Summit. It was 40 attendees, lot of cmo CEO stuff like that. And one of the guys who is the CEO of his company, his child just came out as trans so over the holidays, reduced him to the entire family, right? Very supportive parent amazing, right? And he turns around 20 goes head doesn't let you know, you're an inspiration like I saying your social post to to my Son, they can see like just the visibility and some of the arguments and what you're fighting for. And I was like tearing up a little bit, right? Because I turned around to him. And I was like, listen, there's a lot of misconceptions about trans youth. I said, as a parent, one, who's incredibly supportive, can you get more active in the game, like, we need you out there, right, we need you to advocate we need you to, like, you will, all of us can sit down, sorry, I'm hitting my mic, all of us can sit down and just talk about trans youth right? For me, I jump back in the class of youth, right, and just try to, I hide to survive. So I came out at 50. And, you know, so we can sit here and talk about what we think for gender affirming care. But when you're in it, I think it's really powerful. So I have that on. Then yesterday, I had a friend of mine, who I met in October of 2022. And she's she starts going off this really weird called, and then she was like, listening, you were like, the first trans person I really got to know and, you know, became friends with and stuff. I was like, Okay, I'm like, You're all just get on with the, you're about to say something, just what is it? Like, my child just came out as trans. And she said to me, she's like, she's relatively religious and Christian, and, you know, I'm a pagan. And, you know, I respect what she believes. And she said, I believe God brings people into our lives for a reason. And I think, knowing you over the last year and a half has helped me handle and react well, and understand things through your, through your eyes, and through your disk, kind of what you share, right? And you've educated and you, you share these resources and stuff. And that really has helped me. So it was kind of an interesting conversation, but I felt better prepared by knowing you. So I had some impact on people. So I was really happy. And so it's just a little validation, right on, we don't know what our impacts are. And when that comes to me, and it goes, like, you know, they share that with me, you know, I'm either crying, or like, just like, thanking them. But it was just, it's nice to know, that there are people that listen, that, you know, we're helping, we might not think we're helping them, or we are, so just kind of want to share that positive note.

Vanessa: 12:16

And that's refreshing. It's all fun, is,

Stefanya: 12:19

right?

Vanessa: 12:22

It's so it's a way for us to get like good news from that, because we just get Dell used biologist, negativity constantly. So knowing that people actually like, seeing and hearing us and what we have to say and that it's actually making a difference. It's, you know, it makes our it makes our activism worth it, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, it's one reason we do this show, you know, if we can help one person, it's worth it. So Ben asked him well done.

Jacqueline: 13:01

I was especially nice and I like the political climate going on. So that you're no stranger to a button with the passing in our state in Ohio. But so I both live in Ohio at least. It's awful. And like I have two children who are trans in some capacity. The youngest one she's a sophomore in high school, right like she started transitioning like in middle school and stuff and just it's been really enlightening getting to see like, the world she's going through versus the world I went through. And then all this political garbage just like Nope, don't my hands on her. Leave her alone.

Vanessa: 13:41

I know. Okay, about something.

Taryn: 13:45

I was gonna say there's another awkward pause. Yeah.

Vanessa: 13:48

less depressing. I just looked at I just looked at myself and I saw my mother in completely fucked with my brain. Like my mom.

River: 13:59

My feet too. So

Taryn: 14:01

yeah.

Vanessa: 14:03

I hate my mother. I want to be my mom know when mother's a piece of shit. So but like just looking at break here. I'm like, Oh, the pre transition. I look like my dad was transition. I look like my mom. Which just goes to show like we are our parents. Yeah.

Taryn: 14:24

Pre transition look like my dad. Like anybody now. So but I'm grateful for my mom for those gifts she gave me up top and down below.

Charli Kate: 14:35

Transition I look just like my mother and I transition just so I wouldn't look like her anymore

River: 14:45

interesting, amazing.

Vanessa: 14:50

So So we've all been transitioning for Stefan, you said you're five years in. I'm gonna have Five and a half,

Stefanya: 15:01

same URL aversary was last September.

Vanessa: 15:06

Oh, at least is everyone here at least like two years in at this point?

Taryn: 15:11

I'm coming close to six but yeah. Two and a half's.

Gemma: 15:18

Transition. Oh, that makes me that makes me feel old. I think I transition in 2009. Yeah.

Stefanya: 15:26

Good for you.

Taryn: 15:27

You're the older

Jacqueline: 15:29

one. Like I haven't. I wonder like, how do you define transition when, like, to me it feels like it's a lifelong process. It's not like, yeah, no plans. And yesterday, I wasn't.

Vanessa: 15:40

I guess I'm saying like, when you start medically, I would, which I know is it's, it's elitist of me really to say even because yeah, we're it's Yeah, okay. Well,

River: 15:52

Vanessa. Conversation,

Vanessa: 15:53

it is a nuanced conversation. Vanessa Nast, all that to you? Yes. Yeah. I know, there's no, there's no one way to transition. So

Taryn: 16:03

in years for me on a social transition. So I started building out social profiles and kind of just getting out there, when I have some my things all started in 2011. So I kind of like up that native, you know, thumbs up, to proceed, and 2013 was when I came out socially, so it's been about 10 years. But um, you know, for me, HRT is what I count. And that was the most chill line of September of 2018. Yeah,

Jacqueline: 16:32

to do that whole, like, you gotta live as a woman without, like, bullshit. Before you get to start it. So it's like, I came out at work, I came out social, I came out to everyone, social media, and whatever. Without having like, start HRT for a bit. And then I finally started, I don't know, probably your eight years or something on major team. I don't really keep track close without thinking about it.

Vanessa: 16:58

I think I'm the baby here.

Charli Kate: 17:00

I kind of did it a little backwards. I didn't socially transition until after I'd been on HRT for almost a year.

Vanessa: 17:07

i A lot of people do that. I do it a lot. Okay.

Charli Kate: 17:15

Makes me feel less makes me feel less alone. So

Unknown: 17:18

I'm seeing it more and more. Yeah.

Vanessa: 17:21

It's a safety thing, too. So I hear a lot of people do

River: 17:23

especially in red states. Yeah. Yeah.

Jacqueline: 17:26

Like more informed consent models, where it's like, you can go in not visible not presenting and kind of get things started rather than like, hey, look, I'm a giraffe walking around in the grocery store with this like, wig on these clothes on. I'm like, awkward, middle school girls. Years public. traumatic.

Charli Kate: 17:45

Well, what was really scary for me was, before I transitioned, I didn't know a single trans person. I kind of I flew blind on a lot of it. And it wasn't until I Twitter I think back when it was still somewhat usable. If that was ever really the case, is when I was like, oh, okay, certainly get to know people and going through the whole thing.

Vanessa: 18:11

It's the entire thing. It's definitely the baby here. Wow. So that's like, Yeah,

Gemma: 18:19

I had a slightly weird experience where I didn't have limitation. Basically, I started dry hormones. And I ended up in hospital with the bugs off my lawn. But I don't mind it because I was basically I was suicidal at the time getting the dry hormones was the only thing that didn't get me function that that was the only way I could function. So even though I ended up with a nice, nice little scar in my lung, that was obviously had to wait like a year, almost a year, about a year before I end up getting on hormones properly. And then like they had to be very careful. And then like I'm still on blood thinners for a while. And they find out that it clotting disorder that disappeared. Which is that's a whole other story. Interesting. Yeah.

Vanessa: 19:04

That's gonna disappear. That's badass. Yeah. How old? Were each of you when you first knew I was about four or five.

Stefanya: 19:15

News, the front thing for me because, you know, I really didn't come out to myself as this, this. This is who I am and what I wanted until 2016 at age 56. I did that in therapy. You know, one day we were talking about something I don't even remember what the topic was. But I don't think it had anything to do with this. And just suddenly kind of blurted out, you know, I've never really much like being a man. And my therapist was, I appreciate it. She did not let me sweep that back under the carpet. And we just kind of got to the point where doing it but, you know, in 2020 hindsight, I can see I had lots of hints across my whole life. You know, the things that I was interested in the things I wasn't in interested in things, you know, the kind of sort of vague wishes that I had about being able to transform myself and being much more comfortable around girls and enjoying girls games much more. So I mean, like, hints, but you know, I didn't really put two and two together until

Taryn: 20:22

was gonna say for me, it was probably about 11 or 12. But I will admit this, that I don't admit this in many forms. So, gonna go public with this one, it's gonna say your life now, girl. Yeah, no. So I talked when I was eight, and nine and 10 Really, reasonably did not like that. It just didn't like didn't feel real to me. And like it felt more comfortable to talk with or not, prior to puberty, and then around 11 or 12, I started questioning both sexuality and gender. There weren't a lot of really good trans, like, visible trans people back in the 80s. Right? It might have been the middle middle ages. Yeah. It was more sensationalized, right? Like, you're cutting off body parts, blah, blah, blah, whatever, some afternoon talk show. So I didn't really know. So I couldn't tell you if I was gay, or trans or what. But I knew I had to like, you know, once I realized I didn't have that personal support as a teenager, come in, jump back in the closet and bury myself till it pops out. Because it always whatever you bury always

Vanessa: 21:28

apologize. It really does. You can't shove it down forever.

River: 21:33

Just comes back stronger. Yeah. I think I knew from a very young age, but there are multiple times where I was either bullied or had a traumatic experience that kind of pushed it back into the closet. Hence the plug for my artists name, bury the river are buried.

Vanessa: 21:54

But I never put that together. Yeah.

River: 21:58

And then I've been with my partner for 16 years. And they came out a number of years ago, as non binary. And the whole time I've known them they've been like, she'll figure it out eventually. And, you know, when they came out, I was like, it's better not awaken anything in me. And it did. And here we are. But yeah, I've been on HRT for just over two or three years in November, and I'm, as of January 31, one year postdoc bottom surgery, so Oh, actually, I'm very, very grateful and thankful I am where I am. In geographically as well as in Bali,

Vanessa: 22:39

you are lucky geographically, to Yes.

Jacqueline: 22:43

I have one of those two. I've three like long term serious partners, but one of them just started taking tea, like, six months ago or so. So it's been a little exciting with that. Sort of like, sis woman, non binary person and trans woman as partners, which is kind of fun. Yes.

Charli Kate: 23:03

I feel like I knew when I was around six or seven, but so when I was around six or seven, I saw my mom doing her nails and they said, Oh, that looks like fun. I want you to do my nails. And something happened that night where we had to go to the hospital for I developed a high fever or something. And the doctor told my mother, you're confusing the child. If I see you doing this again, I'm going to call CPS serious. Seriously for having my nails done. And right into the closet I went until I was 3132 years old.

Vanessa: 23:42

I'm so sorry

Charli Kate: 23:46

but uh yeah so so to this day I get every time I go to do my nails I'm still like I hear the doctors voice in my head it's kind of a weird it's a weird sitch trauma

Vanessa: 23:56

is fucking intense and lasting unlike that's the worst that fuck that doctor I hope that doctor is not practicing anymore hopefully I didn't in the ground at this point I

Charli Kate: 24:10

was gonna say at this point he's probably dead he was back back then. Yeah

River: 24:18

stay alive for a while

Gemma: 24:20

the child I hope he lived long enough to see the trans tipping point and just be feel hated hating but that was happening not see this bid does not see the current timeline but

River: 24:34

yeah, yeah, Gemma says see then cope.

Taryn: 24:41

Maybe get a new PCP. I had a really good one that had a trans kid so and then really left the health care system. I think got his medical license in like 1958 Like literally in a face to face of warming's like, I've never treated anybody like you. I'm like, if one more Octa says to me, I swear to God, I'm going to call to the volcano that's orbiting low earth orbit, and just be like beating the hell out of here. Like this is crazy. And this is in Kaiser in California. So that's insane. So get those nuggets.

Gemma: 25:16

I'm lucky because I've got a I have a trans DT What are equivalent to a PCP is GP, general practitioner. Mine is trans. But unfortunately, he's maybe he's maybe he's currently in the process of building a trans stuff around transport in Brighton anyway. But it's also the fact that he's made the trouble of being really good at his job. So like, people go to him to try and defeat a point with him. Oh, god, yes. Well, thanks, Sam.

Vanessa: 25:55

I, as I said, I like I first knew when I was like four or five, because I was I remember just MIT remembering back really early, just saying, I wish I was born a girl. And like, like, throughout my relationships, like throughout my adult, adulthood, I was always like, tell people my deepest secret that you know, I was born the wrong I was born in the wrong body, I should have been born should have been born a girl. And I remember in like, 2005, or 2006, I saw a documentary called Trans generation, or trans generations wanted to, I can remember exactly. And before that, I didn't know trans people even existed. And that's when I actually learned trans people existed. And that's when it like, like, holy shit, and that's when it, like, opened it up in my head, but being in the Christian conservative family, like, I couldn't do anything so. But that planted the seed back in like, Oh, 506, but I wasn't able to actually come out until my dad killed himself. Because if I had done it before, then he would have killed me so

Jacqueline: 27:08

unacceptable.

Charli Kate: 27:11

Did anybody else get exposure? Like you're talking about first exposure? My first exposure to a trans person was Eddie is art in the late 90s. Anybody else?

Vanessa: 27:22

And the very cheesy Eddie's I couldn't.

Gemma: 27:27

I was gonna be on my shortlist at the moment. But really, because she, she's running. She's running too. It's, it's a political thing. She's running for the Labour Party, which is, well, not officially turkey but still like they're basically like, bled to point out in terms of other political stuff. And they're basically we have one green MEP, sorry, one green seat country. And we've had Caroline Lucas, who has been the most amazing MP we've ever had. She is retiring. But it's still the one green safety and labor is still trying to run and it's basically the end up giving labor giving constituency to the Tories, or it could do because it has in the past few elections been that split vote. It's just like it really she's running for that seat. And it's like, oh, I don't

Charli Kate: 28:26

know that when I was you know, so I was probably 13 or 14 when that when dress to kill came out. And and she made a joke she about being a transvestite was like being a male lesbian. And I saw I was like, oh, that's what I am.

Vanessa: 28:43

I'll be have said that many times in the past to

Stefanya: 28:46

frequently doubted myself in that those terms. Yeah, Jackie,

Vanessa: 28:49

you're about to talk.

Jacqueline: 28:51

Yeah, I mean, I know when I was younger, there wasn't like a defining point where it's like when I was five or six or something like that, because it was just like, I was a kid. I was enjoying eating ice cream and watching movies, my parents and whatever. I know like in middle school, I was starting to get online dial up internet like AOL days. Like I had a screen name that was like a girl's name and an email address. That was the girl's name. I certainly felt more comfortable just like logging in and existing not doing anything like weird I was talking about like pets and video games and whatever. Um, and high school I didn't really talk about it much. I was born in Texas. I lived in Oklahoma. They're all kind of like, rather read rather like conservative religious upbringing. My parents are great. I have a great relationship with them can't say enough good things about them. But I didn't have any exposure when I was younger either. Um, when I was in high school, I was dating someone who I say is my only ex boyfriend at this point in time. But he was watching the man show on I don't know what network it was Comedy Central or something like that. And there was like, I think Comedy Central prize or award some competition where it's like Your your prize for winning this competition was like, a date with a trans woman on this like yacht or something like that, and like she was gorgeous or whatever. And but then like he got out like, women in the audience, what do you think the running price of a penis as these days was like, completely threw me off. It's like, oh, like a sis woman's getting a penis put on them, whatever, right? It didn't make any sense to me. So it didn't help. But then I know, in university timeframe, I started getting more exposure, I was part of like the LGBTQ community, they're massive people, I started dating a trans woman at one point, I'm not in college too. But I started going out with some people, like, you know, different pubs and bars and whatnot. And some of them are like, a little like, cross dressers not trans woman. And that threw me for a loop. Because like, this is not me, right? Like, seeing kind of things are doing like the making a show of it. And, like the arousal aspects of like women's clothes, like, No, I just want these clothes because they'd be my clothes, not because they're anything weird or anything like that. So that took me forever to add some stuff to work out and certainly had to get my life in good shape from like an employment perspective and housing and everything like that before. I felt safe enough to like publicly come out. But yeah, I'm now on time.

Taryn: 31:23

Yeah, for me was 86. So I was on a club in London. And so gender non conforming goddess and kind of take my eyes off her. Really, my first instance he I was 18. And I think what really drew me out of the closet was y'all gonna laugh, but it's Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Like, that's where I really like I could not stay in. It just started popping out again. So that thing I buried just press like it was buried in a shallow grave in New Orleans. So well, that's

Stefanya: 31:53

I grew up in New Orleans. So lots of GNC stuff going on down there. And

Taryn: 31:59

I was there for the night time. Oh, one of my favorite cities in the US. It's my little vampire city. So

Vanessa: 32:11

it's one of the few states I've never been to. It's I was talking to my son's grandfather yesterday. And you know, he's here set white Christian male. Like, he's as supportive as he can be. But he's very confused about trans people still, but like, he doesn't understand it, how trans kids can exist. I'm like, he's like it, there has to just be outside influence. I'm like, then I've known I was trans since I was a kid. I grew up in a completely Christian conservative household household. I've known I was trans. I've noticed something was up since I was a kid. It took me until I was 40. To come out, I wish I was able to come out sooner. I said, I know trans people from all over the globe. We all have that. That's why I asked you all this question. Because we have this in commonality, like, all of us look at a young age, we started having this something, it's just like something is there. And yeah, something's different. It's very, very hard to explain. To put it into words, it's extremely hard to explain to us this person, because it's not something that you can really put into words, it's our brains, and our bodies don't match really. And it's a fight every day to kind of align those and engender not being binary. You know, there's, there's the binary side of being transgender, like being trans fam, which, but then there's also non binary people where it just means that that binary is our frames are just much you know, and our brains could range anywhere from being one end of the binary to the other, or somewhere in the middle. And there's no right or wrong

River: 33:56

or dimensional space. It really is. I'm non binary and also transform. So as an example, and then yeah, she they we got that kind of three dimensional space, like some days it it, it oscillates. Some days, I'm feeling more of my Neo pronouns. I never tried to explain them to sis people, because they just will never use them. But yeah, there's a lot once again, nuance, exactly. It's, it is ineffable for to versus people it's very hard to describe to them this feeling that we've, you've had enough everyone has it from a young age. So just to kind of make sure that we we round that out not everyone who definitely are like I was I was this gender and now I'm this gender and that is my experience. But I think I think a very common one is definitely what a lot of us feel which is Yeah, I mean young age.

Vanessa: 34:48

I I'm just trying to find a commonality there. So yeah, absolutely.

River: 34:52

I tried to do the thing where I didn't include everyone.

Vanessa: 34:56

Well, yeah, that's smart because I my brain Alright, so a lot on that stuff. He I have the card, I have the exact same mug.

Jacqueline: 35:06

One thing that I say to these people who say they don't get it, it's like left handed people exists. You didn't have like a left handed influence or left handed social media video or something like that. But like told someone they're left handed. Yeah, they're just left handed. You can't tell them. You're making it up. That's internal. You can't prove it. Right. Just you're just not trying hard enough. Just use your right hand. It's absurd.

River: 35:30

Yeah, it didn't Georgia, and they forced me to write with my right hand. So now I am right handed. I was born left handed. Also, oh, they were doing it back then. Yeah, when I was a kid, I'm 37 By the way, so

Charli Kate: 35:43

yeah, I was gonna say, I'm also from Georgia. And I'm 38. And yet they did it to kids when I was a kid.

Vanessa: 35:50

Yeah, that's so fucked up.

River: 35:51

Solidarity.

Vanessa: 35:54

Well, here's another commonality thing. Those of you who are gamers Do any of you play with male characters?

Stefanya: 36:06

Well, that was certainly one of my hints was yelling when I learned tabletop role playing I much enjoyed putting female characters

Vanessa: 36:14

every single one in Warcraft. I like an all the characters ever had I never made a single male one. So because it wasn't like people were like, you just like staring at a girl's ass. I'm like no, I just like watching a girl kick fucking ass that's what I love. You know? So like, my little blood elf Paladin fucking Solonian giant fucking like rock giant shit thing like I don't know that was just whatever So gather I'm

Jacqueline: 36:47

really appreciating games that are bringing in more nuanced characters have more representation of like different skin tones and hair types and body sizes and borders gate? Yes. Oh, absolutely.

Vanessa: 36:59

Wonderful was that like you can make you can have a you can make a kind of traditionally trans femme character on there with the with kind of our art traditional body shapes with a deeper voice and all that stuff. It's pretty lucky about us so and you can have someone with boobs in a dick. And it's yeah, it's it's amazing. So

Charli Kate: 37:28

I I was an online gamer I was into the role playing community you're

Jacqueline: 37:34

playing a game like a big big Zelda fan like I would love to be able to have character creations and some of these games that don't exist right when you see fan or two people making like a queer or trans character or something like that. I'd love to see more of it across the board great great

Vanessa: 37:54

we just need more of it period and I just love how it pisses people off so much it's Jesus

Taryn: 38:02

accuse people in this country that actually get pissed when they see a black Elf on the you know, Lord of the Rings

Vanessa: 38:11

I saw an article somewhere where someone modded a game to to remove like the pronouns of some character that was like I think as a trans character or something and then it defaulted all the characters to the them

River: 38:36

congratulations, you played yourself.

Gemma: 38:40

There wasn't there was a game where it was they had a whole whole meltdown around. It was a novel, it was a gender swap binary clone of somebody. And they were like, oh, no, like Transnet wasn't a trans character. There's like trans and there's trans aspects to it in terms of complexity, but that was not that was just literally they did this whole cloning thing of like James admirals and other skills soldiers and some of them were gender swapped

Vanessa: 39:11

it the link Oh. People go to to just hate on us can be quite comical. If you if you if you're able to just stand back and just look at the just the ludicrous lucre, Linacre acity ludicrous. acity whatever. But overall, it can be funny, isn't it? Sometimes all you can do is laugh at it, but you know, laugh at the people trying to kill you.

Taryn: 39:38

Yeah, I mean, I laugh the trolls, right because I'm just like, You're so ignorant. I'm like you are dumb as a stone. And I apologize the stones in advanced comparison. But unlike your English is with third grade, sorry, I'm going to drop some clips and, and they can conceive anything outside of their shallow sheet shallow, basic understanding of life in general. I'm just like, just go away, like move to Idaho and just bring your wallet off or whatever. I don't care. Like just just I don't know. It's ridiculous. I mean, I was watching I don't know the Super Bowl. Well to do right with the whole Taylor Swift or satanic magic, right? You've seen some of the conspiracy nuts on like X. Other ones. I mean, like, literally, Biden was trolling them in the biggest way. And they're like, We told you it was real. I was like, oh my god, I'm like, I hope aliens are real. Because I'm like, fuck, my bags are packed. I'm like, wonder beam up emergency. I'm like, the rest of the way team is dead. Just send me like, go. I don't care what planet it is. Just take me

Stefanya: 40:47

in me up Scotty. Sorry, I

Gemma: 40:48

just said I just wrote what like one thing back from like, I like I had a lot of self delusion. I didn't sort of like even consider myself like, I mean, I do a huge amount of Tran stop about trans people for like, my, all my teenage years, because I just needed to know this information. But one of the things that always jumped out to me was when I think I must have been like 1011. And I saw when Jurassic Park came out, and gender change there and I was like

Vanessa: 41:19

that's okay. I didn't even put that together. You're right. Yeah, I

Stefanya: 41:22

still find a way

River: 41:24

of thinking about thinking about all of the casual trans misogyny in mainstream media growing up, whether it's like friends or scrubs or Ace Ventura, obviously, and got so many bear and really leaving a bad taste in my mouth at the time. I didn't know why. And remember that I remember watching the scene with my dad was like at the very end reveal of Ace Ventura, I'd have one like vomiting. And I'm, like, I don't understand why. What what's gross? I don't understand what's happening here. Yeah. And I'm watching as a child, and I'm like, I'm being exposed to this utterly despicable content, child and it's gonna put my ass back in the closet for decades. But

Taryn: 42:10

then you want to, I'm sorry. And you have things like, The Crying Game of the desert, like really positive. Right? And these are the Crying Game was somewhat like, laughable. I thought the whole shower scene was I'm like, Come on, dude. I'm like, get it together. Okay, you know, but I felt like it was more positive, but you're right, like a sponge or like people get that for laughs all the time. Because everybody was socialized insists that, you know, and used to seeing a little cartoon rabbit, you know, when you went into assume schmooze or get something dressed up as like some kind of foodies bombshell. Right? So Dragon was always some kind of fun on a punch line. Or, you know, just I don't know, it makes it hard, right? Because it's like people laugh at them. Ridicule.

Gemma: 42:54

Or they have come on, roughly, unofficially, economically said the money is gender fluid.

Stefanya: 43:01

They sure have.

River: 43:03

Charlie, what were you gonna say?

Charli Kate: 43:05

I was gonna say actually one of my Another early kind of exposure for me. Anybody else watched The Drew Carey Show?

Vanessa: 43:15

Yeah, brother, Northeast Ohio. Yes, of

Charli Kate: 43:17

course. Wow. There was always jokes. But the jokes were never Oh, your transit jokes. Were always kind of around that. It was actually I won't say it was 100% great representation. But it was, you know, that character was actually kind of accepted. And it was kind of wonderful. And that was early kind of like, Oh, I could be like, I think his name was Steve. I could be like that.

Vanessa: 43:43

Yeah, completely forgot about that.

River: 43:45

Good call back.

Charli Kate: 43:46

Yeah. Now at the unfortunately they made her come out of the call. They made her go back to presenting his mail for reasons and Ed's. It was really it was a really sweet kind of thing that drew was like, oh, yeah, my, my brother just dresses a woman. That's fine.

Vanessa: 44:07

But shit that much is buried that way. So thank you for that reminder. We had to put that up again.

Charli Kate: 44:15

It will never exist on DVD because they can't get the rights to the music so nobody can go back and watch it again.

Vanessa: 44:22

Oh, that sucks.

Gemma: 44:27

There's been a doctor here found that there's a company called Big finishing literally since Dr. Hill went off the air have basically been doing audio adventures. And they've had like, all caught up and like integrated with what's going on with the new series. But they've had two really good representations of trans characters, one who was actually in the 40s and one from modern era, which who met people from the far future out I'm trans. And the people from future were like this sorry, I don't understand what the problem is. It was like this big beautiful healing I want. One of them was like literally the the character who inspired Jack Harkness long before that she just like, this is the girl when she's having. She's having a freakout because there's a transphobic army after chasing around, this is like, a really cute moment. But the other was like the whole relationship set up. And it just literally, he was like, they're just very the one with live and it's just like, it's just so wholesome. And just like, that kind of representation, the representation of like, sorry, I don't understand the, because I even like, I don't know who own like we're talking about honestly, dating stuff. I've had to deal with my own internalized trans transphobia towards other trans like, what not wanting to date other trans people, and things like that. So the idea of just like, just people be a CES person who is so far beyond this. They're like, Yeah, I don't understand you. Why would this be a problem? For me? It's just like,

Charli Kate: 46:07

it's I think I've heard some Star Trek references, but Deep Space Nine. My favorite episode was still the old cling on comes in DAX. You know, it's good to see it's like Jadzia now. Oh, I still love you come here. It was great.

Gemma: 46:28

What's Babylon five? What's the original episode that would like to be the pilot, where the land is actually a very masked figure. And like most of the companies like they've dubbed over the original. When she trend when she went from, like full members a half, it was going to be a trans storyline or trans ish storyline, because it was a male character who was going to turn them as human. But they never actually implemented it. Because obviously they recast when full when it went out. But

Charli Kate: 47:04

yeah, this is now a sci fi podcast.

Gemma: 47:07

We're just gonna have everybody seen. Frankie world and the best trans character I love who is like, I won't spoil anything but best trans character I've ever seen on TV. was Star Trek strange new world.

Vanessa: 47:27

That's amazing show.

Stefanya: 47:29

My favorite new track. I've

Charli Kate: 47:31

actually I've actually not watched a lot of the new track I need to I've been waiting to just binge the whole thing.

Vanessa: 47:38

strange new world is amazing. It's Ensign,

Charli Kate: 47:43

Anson mountains, the captain and that right? Yeah, I felt I'd follow that band anywhere. So yeah, I'll watch it.

Gemma: 47:50

Yeah. I really didn't like him in discovery. But that was just like it was this one bit where he annoyed me. And now I'm like, Yeah,

Vanessa: 47:57

I understand now that I kind of redirecting a conversation then. Based on some things that Gemma said, into the candidate dating and it's and sex and love life kind of thing. You mentioned something about something that I had felt guilty about myself about, like some internal transphobia, where we've been hesitant to date other trans people. I have felt that too. And is I like, that's something I've actually had a lot of internal guilt about feeling. Is that? Is that common amongst us? Or

Jacqueline: 48:46

I did some work on that for myself at one point, as someone who is dating a trans person. Um, I think for me, when I initially had, I wouldn't even say apprehension or like negative feelings towards it, but it's like, oh, like, this person has a body kind of like mine. This person has a body kind of built like mine. She's also another athlete. She's also built like, larger, stronger, muscular sort of thing. It's like, if I'm into you, then like, I need to, like, work on some self acceptance stuff, too. Right? Like, I'm seeing things on you. And I'm seeing things on me and it's like, there can make some like incongruence there, but they're certainly like people that try to like reinforce negative stereotypes about like, reproduction having kids or, or whatever, and I am not here for it. I won't accept that. Right? I see like, trans women or women, trans men or men, right? There's no like, I'm not dating someone because of their parts. Like, I'm going to reinforce all the like public statements that I'll make in my own dating life, but I certainly had to like, pick out it and find out like, what is it that's a barrier, and it's been overall really helped For me to go there. The only other thing I've heard too is like, maybe you're more likely to be a little more visible, where it's like, hey, if it's just me in a crowded like, sis hat, whatever people like, I might stand out less, I might be a little more like, invisible, but it's like, oh, now there's multiple trans people running around together. There's like, be a little bit of bigger spotlight, but who cares? trans visibility is great trans people are wonderful. There's no like, need to hide. I say this realizing that, like, there's still a lot of violence out there towards trans people. And it's a scary world out there. So I've seen a little bit of that, too.

Vanessa: 50:42

Yeah. Like, I, I haven't done a whole lot of dating my, it's, it's been a just an under Apps, it's been like, very, not much hit very miss. With even getting matches. That seems to be pretty common experience in the trans community. And most of my matches have been with other trans people. And I, I hooked up with a, a fab non binary person that actually I went to high school with, and we actually, were talking outside of the dating apps, they reached out to me just through Facebook. And nope, we've just become very good friends, you know, since they reached out, but then I went on a date with a trans woman and it was lovely, but we just mutually ghosted each other because this is you know, the 2020s And that's just what you do. Ghosting is a is a thing anymore. But I don't know I I'm trying to figure out what my sexuality is, like I It has definitely changed since I've started estrogen. And I see a lot of nodding. I am definitely finding myself kind of more into by spectrum. I like I see guys, I find guys cute. I am revolted by penises though. Which is kind of a problem though. I do have on my bucket list to have sex with somebody with a penis, preferably a trans girl. Just because I have the parts for that now. And but I think I just have checked that box. Yeah, I think I just have a whole lot of just issues to work through. I sometimes wonder if I'm asexual, I sometimes wonder if I'm a romantic. I'm definitely going to get screened for autism here soon, which could probably have a whole lot to do with it too. So I just don't fucking know. But dating is complicated. Relationships are weird. And how have you all like been navigating the whole sex and relationships and things space? Have you gravitated more towards cisgender people like I find myself doing I find I still find myself gravitating towards sis women. Or have you transcending humanity.

Stefanya: 53:15

I'm totally sapphic in the sense that, you know, what I find appealing, generally is femme presentation. And I'm not so much concerned about crotch hardware. I find myself kind of, you know, girl caught curious. I've been with one trans girl and that was flat. That was a lot of fun. Also be with a trans guy. Let that was less so precisely because it's you know, the masculine thing that just kind of makes me go Yeah, I don't think so. But I mean, he was still fun, you know, and I have noticed a shift in that I Well, I'm not particularly attracted sexually I do appreciate male attention. So you know, somebody who's coming on to me romantically you know, being complimentary. Like that. And that kind of gets me Yeah, I like that. But the only goes so far. I mean, I'm not really interested in getting physical with boys

Vanessa: 54:10

are fun to look at too much. I'm very friendly Anson mount.

Gemma: 54:16

So if you're on the Hampton mount thing, he has such pan vibes. The fact that when, like, they mentioned like in the preview that he was gonna meet his, like, long lost love type thing. I was honestly surprised it was a woman. Because it was just like,

Stefanya: 54:33

gotcha. Yeah, gotcha.

Charli Kate: 54:35

I feel like I feel like I have a little bit of a different experience because I am still married to the person I was with pre transition. She's been with me from beginning to where I am now. My sex drive just disappeared, just completely. And I do appreciate male attention now and maybe You enjoy masculine presentation a little bit more than I used to, but I actually am starting to question whether or not I'm asexual because

Stefanya: 55:09

the same same.

Charli Kate: 55:15

I'm hearing I'm curious to see if bottom surgery, we'll fix it, we'll change that. I'm kind of curious. But

Vanessa: 55:20

masturbation feels a lot better. It's much better now.

Stefanya: 55:24

That's good to hear. Okay. I bottom dysphoria, I'm really on the fence about GCS.

Vanessa: 55:38

If you're unhappy about it, you don't want to do it, don't do it. But

Stefanya: 55:41

my age too. That means the risks of such a radical surgery, are we not in the recovery and, you know, real super guarantees that it's going to be aesthetic and functional and all the maintenance tasks.

Gemma: 55:58

Only obvious static thing. So I'm still I'm currently dealing with fat phobia in the healthcare system at the moment, which is why I have problems. Have you ever had referrals and all those things, and it's just like that. One of the things when I went to the appointment, they actually had the, like, they have the big book of vaginas, which literally 1000s Like both cysts and trans vaginas. It was an art project that somebody in

Stefanya: 56:25

this clip that can pick and choose whatever the whole, I

Gemma: 56:30

don't know, it's more of a thing of, here's the, here's the vast complexity and variety of all vaginas, both sis and trans. Okay, that's kind of what I'm trying to say. And the idea of an aesthetic vagina is basically a construction of horn industry almost pretty much sphere.

Charli Kate: 56:55

Speaking of fatphobia, in the healthcare industry, my surgeon will not do the operation on me unless I lose 25 pounds.

Jacqueline: 57:06

Try 100

Vanessa: 57:08

I was right on the edge. They they did it on me but my surgeon is kind of special in that she's very transparent body positive, but she's she was also kind of had to push back against the Cleveland clinic's kind of own internal rules, but I was above the BMI, BMI. Let's fuck BMI. But I was above the BMI for my surgery, but they still did it. But I was supposed to be about 20 pounds lighter than I will she's like, well, you're she's like, Honestly, the only real difference is your voltage. Just look puffier. So that's mine. So I go on over. Yeah, puffy Volga. Yeah, that's a fan.

Charli Kate: 57:51

So let me go get my pearls so I can collect them.

Vanessa: 57:54

I know. So that's pretty much what I said. So she's like, Okay, let's do that. There we go. But

Gemma: 58:01

I suppose I got down to the weight, which I got the original referral, but in the time it took to get because massively undefended, tronics transparently NHS? Basically, I developed fibromyalgia. And basically, my GP put on a whole load of weight because I wasn't able to walk as much and things like that. And I mean, my current plan is actually because the the actual hospital is actually the NHS uses is actually nearby. And I'm fairly certain the fact that they can, they can be convinced to take money, is I'm actually going to my plan is to get to a point where I'm at least at a healthy body weight as far as like cardiovascular and things like that. Get the approval, and then I'm actually gonna take the NHS to court over fat phobia.

Vanessa: 58:52

Yeah, good. Yeah. Why should it matter? I mean, people of all different body types, doesn't matter what sex slash gender, whatever it is, you know,

Jacqueline: 59:02

they claim is because of medical risks when it comes to being put under anesthesia for so long, especially with how they like invert you on the table. We've done a lot of digging and investigation on this, but what grinds my gears so fucking much with us, is they will deny you for it, but they'll turn around in the same sentence and recommend you for another invasive surgery. gastric bypass, right? This socially acceptable surgery that we're even doing for children, right, talking about fucking kids bodies, and kids like 16 years old,

Vanessa: 59:30

I can't believe that you got and that is major fucking surgery too. Right? Yeah.

Jacqueline: 59:38

But it's socially acceptable because now you're gonna be pretty infant and therefore healthy. Right?

Taryn: 59:43

I mean, isn't that the sad way? Right, like gender affirming care for them. But not for us. It

Vanessa: 59:50

is gender affirming care. I prefer I prefer having my pussy over, you know,

Taryn: 59:58

in whatever I want to chime in real quick and just say that I'm a little bit poly and a hell of a lot of pansexual.

Jacqueline: 1:00:07

I'm not just a little bit poly Right? Like, I have one partner just about eight years, one throughout seven years one for about a little over six months now. I've dated I love going on dates, I love meeting, meeting new people. someone's like, where do you meet your last partner, whatever talking about dating apps, like, oh, US woman's will like football tryouts. Like, it's more fun. And just connecting with people and hitting it off with people, not just like, do your interest match mine. Okay, like, you can meet all my needs. I'll meet all your needs. And let's go.

Vanessa: 1:00:39

And Jackie, did you notice any change after you started estrogen.

Jacqueline: 1:00:45

So I use the lesbian identity label quite a bit. I love it. But it's also like a bit of a political identity. It's not just about like, who I date, who I'll put my face in between their legs, things like that. I will use last week with like, the common folk. But I've always like I've probably slept with more men than women. It's abundance of supply. Low and demand, right? Very easy. And when it comes to like, real labels, like I'd say, like, the lesbian identity really hits on like romance perspective, right? Like, I've never caught feelings for falling in love with a man. Or at least like a sis man. Because there's a whole like, blurry spectrum that's going on with like, Hey, I'm dating a partner who's actually trans. And when it comes to like, sexuality, I would say like, bisexual pansexual. What that doesn't cover like romance, relationships, that sort of thing. So let's be as easy. It could weed out because up to

Gemma: 1:01:47

I kind of go with. I'm somewhat bisexual, but hammer romantic. It's the kind of the wedge. And I do like, I do like the term lesbian. But also queer works as well. We're works great.

Jacqueline: 1:02:00

Yeah, and I don't think it's any different from before or after. Other than, like, like, and I'm never person to walk into like a restaurant or something's like, Oh, like that boy is cute. But once I started to get to know, like, Oh, we're playing video games together watching movies together. We're hanging out. We're playing sports together. Now it's like, okay, like, I'm curious. Spend more time with you. I guess there's a click a little bit. But it's never like pitter patter heart romantic feelings, right. So like, my partner's husband has taken me out on a date before a couple times, we've gone out to movies and dinners, and it's been a lot of fun. And we have a lot of things in common. And we spend a lot of good time together. We have had sex a couple times before. It's been really, really good. And at the same time, like, I don't want to make it a capital our relationship.

Stefanya: 1:02:47

Yeah. Ah, the whole thing about exclusivity and all that complication just doesn't feel very appealing anymore. I want to have some fun, get to spend time with different people. You know, when different things you're exploring what's happening with my body in terms of being with somebody that's? I don't know, do

Jacqueline: 1:03:14

I still want to get married again? I'd still love to cohabitate with someone eventually. Maybe that's not a requirement. But like, right now I live alone. People come over I have a giant house like two storeys, basement backyard, but it's just me and my dog, and rotating sets of cast members like people I'm dating and children and stuff coming through. I think

Charli Kate: 1:03:45

I was just gonna say it feels so boring compared to everybody else. I'm like, yeah, no, I like I just read a good book. That's all I do.

River: 1:03:53

You are valid. That's wonderful.

Vanessa: 1:03:55

Yes. As

River: 1:03:58

you riff. Yes. You're welcome.

Vanessa: 1:04:01

Taryn, I realized I cut you off earlier.

Taryn: 1:04:05

Where were you coming out?

Vanessa: 1:04:08

You were about to talk and I then I was asking something and

Taryn: 1:04:12

oh, no, I'm just like enjoying hearing this conversation. Kind of kind of a weird jacked up review of things myself. So I'll like I said a little bit poly. You know, a lot of pan. Been with both was trans like post HRT? My breast are huge sex organs. So

Vanessa: 1:04:34

yeah, your breasts are glorious.

Taryn: 1:04:37

orgasming are amazing.

Jacqueline: 1:04:42

See post top surgery. It's like, it's not as big of a deal anymore, which is a shame. Like it's just the like, the way things feel changed. It's not that it's fully numb. But this is like years later. So I know one time I noticed that I was like, drinking probably like a bottle of angry orchard or something. It was cold and like, I had it sitting here and I didn't. I couldn't feel it was sitting next to my clothes. But then later like my arm brush and like, my boobs cold, but I had no clue. So now it is it's like my plus too cold armor because I don't have a lot of temperatures sensation between my boobs.

Taryn: 1:05:22

Yeah, a lot of sensation. Yeah,

Vanessa: 1:05:25

I mean,

Jacqueline: 1:05:26

I did before surgery.

Vanessa: 1:05:28

I don't think I'm gonna do top surgery. I mean, I'm not very big only like a cups. So I'm wearing a push up bra right now. But I'm still I'm giving it time to I'm only two years in and it sounds like it's more like the three year mark that that starts to happen plus my I've been on and off nine officers into for surgeries. And so I'm off it again right now, since I'm getting my labia plasti on Monday. So that just fucks up the CI

River: 1:05:55

but functionally of the body really needs to Yeah, settle in.

Vanessa: 1:06:00

And I made the mistake of eating too much too. Last time when I was off estrogen in the weight just when your body doesn't have hormones to tell you where to send the weight. It just does whatever it wants. So it did not go to any place pretty. It just went. I'm like fuck. So when trying to lose that. But wait is

Jacqueline: 1:06:20

so loud and still gonna be pretty. Like it's not like Wait, does it make someone not pretty? Oh, no,

Vanessa: 1:06:25

that's not what I meant. Like I was I wanted it to go to my ass. It went to just random like, in winter my chin instead. And I wanted to go to my ass. So not please, I That came out wrong. I was I get I can't pick and choose. Yeah. But

Stefanya: 1:06:49

your growth I had a growth spurt a year for so that's what it is

River: 1:06:54

just a friendly reminder that the actual estrogen powered puberty time timeline is medically described as five to seven years it can take longer than that. That also includes breast growth and your skeletal muscles. Those cells will also regenerate after seven years. So there's everything's in flux. There's still lots of time to grow. There's still lots of time. I've heard of people who have had breast growth at year 10. They went from like an eighth cup to a C cup and like a couple of months out of nowhere in year 10 That's just there's no late bloomer. Yeah, so don't worry, there's it's still happening. Yeah, so moving.

Vanessa: 1:07:40

I'm just letting I'm just letting the time happened with mine. So yeah, I think what's that 10

Taryn: 1:07:49

I'm on my fourth round of bras.

Vanessa: 1:07:50

Fourth round the bras. I'm finally just able to buy bras finally. So I was just wearing pasties forever. But what is everyone's favorite? Physical thing that HRT has done for me it's legs. I love how it's reshaped legs.

Taryn: 1:08:13

Body hair,

Vanessa: 1:08:14

body. Body hair, body hair.

Stefanya: 1:08:19

I love my body had

Jacqueline: 1:08:21

like skin getting rid of the body hair. Yeah, like that was so big. I mean, I can't say enough good things about it. But like the softer scan like changing the face structure and whatnot. Like really getting rid of the body hair was just massive. That was awful before

Taryn: 1:08:38

and boobs boobs in Bong Bong

Jacqueline: 1:08:41

is great. Yes, but the body here is bigger.

Vanessa: 1:08:45

Yeah, the body here I think that's underrated too. So like there's so many like subtle underrated things that that you don't really think about but they just kind of happen like especially like my chest hair. I had laser done on my chest just once. And it was when they were doing before they tested my face they're like you can get a free session done somewhere in your body. We can do one free session like it's still on my chest and they did it once and I haven't had any report since so

Jacqueline: 1:09:13

I never had it done anywhere on my chest at all and it all vanished. Yeah,

Vanessa: 1:09:17

it's amazing. So except for the white hair, fuck the white hair. But but everyone yeah

Gemma: 1:09:25

I had that. It's like what facial hair and my body just was like oh you clearly the problem with the laser is targeting your the pigments equally you don't want pigment. So like all the all the pigment goes from my face, from my facial hair which means like laser working

Charli Kate: 1:09:42

like it definitely affected. It affected my body hair here but my facial hair I still I still have to shave like every I have to shave twice a day almost.

Jacqueline: 1:09:54

Just do it every day. And I have no problem with it. I just, I don't like doing in front of a mirror like At the same time, that's the key thing is like if I'm just like doing it the shower real quick, it doesn't matter and I dated. I've been dating someone who's like, grown more hair on their face than I ever did. So it's like, seeing them do it all the time, too. It's like, oh, it's not just me.

River: 1:10:20

face here, I have it a year, full year of laser. On my face. I had a photo, I'd show you my old beard, which was the thickest thing I've ever seen in your life. And I did a full year of laser. And then the upper lip and chin was so stubborn. So I've been doing about a year now of electrolysis and it just keeps coming back. It's coming back thinner, and mostly white. But you know, I still shave every single day. And I like I said, Jacqueline, I can't stand shaving from a mirror. But I do anyway, if I don't. I'll miss something. And then I'll have that dysphoria.

Jacqueline: 1:11:00

Even marriage seems it feels fine, right? It's like doing it in front of like, the mirror episode. Yeah. Yeah. epilator.

Vanessa: 1:11:09

Oh, my ingrown hairs.

River: 1:11:12

My roots are way too strong for that, at least on my face, my body hairs to actually

Stefanya: 1:11:20

face and then I got had this idea. I started plucking like I had. I mean, I was fortunate that most of my beard had gone white by the time I started transition. So I didn't really have a lot of shadow. But there were a few dark ones. And I would pluck those. And sometimes I'd click a few other ones too at the time, you know, accidentally and I had the idea. Well, maybe if I kind of clear an area and then plan the app later, I can get it all there. And it took about the better part of a year but I got it to where I can update my face now.

Vanessa: 1:11:46

Nice. It's painful, but I get a lot of ingrown hairs when I play my face and then what happened for a while but

Stefanya: 1:11:54

that doesn't really anymore. It's it's funny

Vanessa: 1:11:57

when you tell sis girls that you have to let your face and how white they get because athletics is fucking painful. And you know, facial hair is thick. And I've done I think I think like 15 or 16 Laser sessions on my face. And I've done some electrolysis on my face. Most of my electrolysis was my mother's pre op. And I like to say electrolysis is the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. It is but Taryn, I know you've done a lot of it too. So. And it's it's the only way to get rid of the white hairs.

Jacqueline: 1:12:39

I do like pain medication creams that give you and stuff now if they don't work, nothing works.

Taryn: 1:12:44

I do. I do do like UPS companies. Yeah, can go in there. I used

River: 1:12:51

to do those. And it started enhancing the feeling instead of actually making it. Like I take them for chronic pain issues. And I was like this will probably work that I realized I could feel more of the needle going in because I was like having an enhanced sensation of being stoned wealth. No. So I just stopped doing that. I

Taryn: 1:13:09

did it in combination with ice and cannabis. So high and relaxed, right?

Vanessa: 1:13:16

I can I can tell you I on a whim, I bought one of those nude flasher thingies for my legs. And it actually works. It's very fucking slow. I've used on my legs on my arms. I don't use it often enough. So it's hasn't progressed well enough yet. Because like I used to have the strongest, strongest settings such as doing like one arm or one leg takes a couple hours. But my legs now are mostly hair free after about seven sessions doing it. And that's just because shaving your legs takes a long time. And I don't know if you're like me, I have shaking hands and I just sliced myself all the time. I scars all over everywhere from just cutting myself. So if you've been if you get those ads a lot, they do work. It's just slow. So

Jacqueline: 1:14:10

share what it is. You said.

Vanessa: 1:14:13

Oh, what?

Taryn: 1:14:16

Anish Oh,

Vanessa: 1:14:18

yeah, let me just go grab it one second.

Taryn: 1:14:22

I was gonna say if y'all have a subscription bank, or you're not opposed to a subscription service, Billy makes an amazing razor. I can do my legs in about 3040 seconds.

Stefanya: 1:14:34

Or one of those things so it's

Jacqueline: 1:14:37

Oh, it's like a home laser system.

Vanessa: 1:14:39

Yeah, it's it's an IPL. So it's like a very weak laser. But you just like put it on your skin and it flashes. Yeah,

Jacqueline: 1:14:49

the thing is like, the hair went away. And it's very faint. It's very like fine. Like anyone would have my legs are basically Anyway, but yeah, yeah, so.

Vanessa: 1:15:04

So, but they do work. It's, it's not just a placebo thing, but in case you are curious, so I don't know if some are better than others. I just I kept getting spammed with ads and I'm one of those people that does click on the ads. So even though I'm fucking broke, but same

Gemma: 1:15:29

ads were terrible, and now they're annoyingly good. I know and get

Vanessa: 1:15:34

does anyone else get anything? Does anyone else get those virilis ads with like the really cute boots and like skirts and trans stuff, and they like just like for her to tell her like custom made boots, and

Stefanya: 1:15:52

I have big Claude hoppers, I have a hard time finding

Jacqueline: 1:15:57

a place called adelante shoes that does custom shoes with like cute little ankle boots and stuff like that. And they work with larger sizes. And they even do with like, people with feet with different sizes like different size foots left and right feet or something like that. And they'll work with you to like, get measurements, and they're very, very reasonably priced. And they do like ethical labor practices, too.

Vanessa: 1:16:20

That's amazing. Nice.

Charli Kate: 1:16:23

It's 15 and a half. Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say my size. 15 and a half feet are gonna have to look into that.

Stefanya: 1:16:31

I thought I was in suffering because I need a 13 and a half or a 14.

Jacqueline: 1:16:36

That's easy.

River: 1:16:38

Y'all, I have about five minutes. I have to go. So yeah, just we signed. I will wrap this up always. My favorite parts of the have happened to me through transition, and I can't pick just one. So my face has changed so much. Like look at this thing. This is great. You're fucking with trans again. I shrunk two inches. I was I was five, eight. And now five, six. My feet shrunk to sizes. So I was a women's size 11. And now women size nine. Oh, it makes everything a lot easier. So I'm very, very lucky and very, very thankful. And of course, the titties are great. I've almost dekap right now. It's just ridiculous, and they're still growing. But I am so thankful for everything that has happened to me and considering that I started transitioning at age 34. And my hips grew and I grew like sigh see boobs, like within six months? Ridiculous. So can't stress how magical HRT is

Vanessa: 1:17:50

the best. It's so good.

River: 1:17:53

And they balance it. Yeah,

Gemma: 1:17:55

we've actually. So a lot of Australia's girls in Brighton thanks to Sam. Actually progesterone in the cocktail. And it actually, well, it helps with energy levels and monitors. And also,

River: 1:18:10

let me know as well. I started six months into my medical transition. And thankfully my my HRT Doc is she's telehealth only, but she is a transplant. And she was not originally putting her patients on progesterone. But after seeing what it did for me, she was like I'm putting everyone on this as long as they want it as part of their regular plan because it's another main hormone. There's not just the one hormone there's the two hormones that are involved with you know, feminine and estrogen based kind of puberty. So I really lucked out. It makes it great. So

Jacqueline: 1:18:49

for five years, I wasn't on it either. But when I started playing women's pro football had to go through a whole lot of like medical review of bloodwork and what was allowed and everything like that. Sure. And it turns out spiring lactone is a banned substance according like the NCAA, it seems a diuretic, it's seen as like a masking agent so if you're using like performance enhancing drugs that can like mask some of that stuff and like the diuretic impacts on athletic performance as a risk so I cut that out so as part of cutting it out they completely changed everything up and they had a progesterone to the max and that's worked out well. I now like change it where you can have like a medical exemption and still take it I've not bothered going back like I'm happy where things are so yeah, leave it leave it alone.

Stefanya: 1:19:37

isn't broken dosage Are you on roof

River: 1:19:40

of everything.

Stefanya: 1:19:42

Oh def progesterone specifically.

River: 1:19:46

So I am very, very, very high metabolism as part of kind of the autoimmune disorder I have where I process things out of my body very quickly. So I've been testing very low on progesterone despite being on 200 milligrams which is kind of standard ones. You've already kind of transitioned onto it. And I talked to my doctor and I was like, Look, I've been DIY additional progesterone with my leftover like, yeah, synthetic version I have that kind of started on. And it's been great and like, I have my moods better, I'm sleeping better I have bigger tits. And like my, there's, I finally have fat going to my buttocks I have a hard time putting on weight. I'm on that side of the spectrum I was 100 pounds in, in high school and college. And so she was like, Yeah, I'll put you on 300 milligrams, and life has been great. It's been about two three months now on that dosage. Yeah,

Stefanya: 1:20:42

I think I'm gonna ask mine for mine, because I'm only on 100.

River: 1:20:46

Yeah, I highly recommend most folks who are who are trans knowledgeable in the medical field will recommend 200 milligrams and when to actually if you're, yeah, make sure you're in that that range when you're getting your blood tested. Have that like happy range of it. And I've always been testing like on the variable end spectrum until now. So

Vanessa: 1:21:07

girls, I have to get to a photo gag. So sounds like riff has to get going. So thank you, everyone for joining us. This was fun. Just kind of nice break from from my dorm. Once again, I don't know what our next steps is going to be. I never do my tie. I don't even know if we're ever going to have one on the right recording day or what? So, but does anyone have a closing thought?

River: 1:21:35

I am the closing thought. Mic drop.

Taryn: 1:21:42

And with that she's gone. Whoa,

Charli Kate: 1:21:45

that was impressive.

Taryn: 1:21:48

I think I'm connected to most of you. So it was great to see you kind of in person portrayal. And to talk and to learn more about you.

Stefanya: 1:22:00

Same here. Thank you all. Likewise,

Charli Kate: 1:22:02

likewise. Thank you all so much.

Vanessa: 1:22:06

And with that terrible disappointment it's time to end

Gemma: 1:22:14

I will totally be interested in because this was a lot less scary than I was expecting it

Vanessa: 1:22:18

to be. It's not that scary. So

Charli Kate: 1:22:23

I was told this was gonna be a horny episode.

Stefanya: 1:22:25

That's where we didn't do as much horniest Yeah, I'm

Vanessa: 1:22:28

probably have to edit out the part where it was where I said it's supposed to be horny, but maybe,

Stefanya: 1:22:34

I don't know. It's just because it's truth in advertising. Right. I'm

Vanessa: 1:22:37

still recording this now too. So, you know,

Taryn: 1:22:41

you know, I so you're like you get that theropod everybody's on it because it's horny. Yeah. I think about horniness, right? So, nothing about sex or anything like that. So, um, you're lowering them in a little bit. Yeah.

Vanessa: 1:22:55

Well, now that now they're listening to this part. And they're like, well, we stay to the very end, maybe something sexy will happen. Maybe like Vanessa will show her.

Charli Kate: 1:23:07

Oh, I have to drop. Thank you all again so much.

Vanessa: 1:23:12

Thank you, everybody. Have a good one. Thank you everyone for joining us and transcending humanity. Bye bye.