Unleashing Creativity: Transforming Brand Photography With Jonna Michelle - Episode 44

"Bring your personality out and inject it into your products to make them more personal."

This week, Vanessa and Jenni interview Jonna Michelle, a personal brand photography expert, and an avid proponent of anti-corporate branding! In her own words:

"I’m here to shine a light on the rebellious small business owners, creatives, activists, and self-led entrepreneurs who are making a BIG impact by carving their own path. With me you’ll step out of the corporate mold and into a unique photography experience custom tailored to your needs.

Making photos is about so much more than creating pretty pictures. It’s about building trust, seeing people, and sharing their goodness with the world. That's why I view every photo session as a partnership. With me, lines of communication will always remain open to ensure that, together, we make the photos of your dreams!" - Jonna

https://www.jonnamichellephotography.com/

Jonna's Instagram

Contact Jonna - Remember to tell her one thing about yourself that you love to get 15% a Lifestyle Session!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Apology
03:51 The Importance of Brand Image for Small Businesses
04:19 Advice on Brand Imaging for Small Business Owners
06:15 Personalizing Your Business and Connecting with Your Audience
08:32 Challenges of Social Media and Sales
09:53 Treating Customers as Serious Buyers
11:20 Navigating the Fear of Marketing Yourself
13:18 Standing Up Against Evil Corporate Overlords
14:37 Incorporating Personal Photography into Branding
16:34 Creative Marketing Strategies for Small Businesses
20:23 The Impact of Corporate Farming
22:13 The Walmart and Amazon Effect
25:50 Supporting Small-Scale Makers and Artists
29:37 Representation and Visibility for Marginalized Communities
30:33 Authenticity and Connection in Building a Brand
34:50 The Power of Visual Branding
36:42 Finding Local Makers and Artists
46:15 Embracing Self-Acceptance
49:26 Navigating Corporate Culture and Prioritizing Mental Well-Being

Transcript

Vanessa: 0:00

Hey everyone. Unfortunately, Riverside had some bugs when it was recording jhanas video and audio on this episode. So there were about four times that the everything disappeared. And it's very annoying. I apologize in advance. I've had to cut all that out of the episode. So you're listening and you're like, why is there a skip there? That's why. Hopefully that won't happen again. This first time that's happened. But yeah, sorry. Enjoy the show. Hello. Welcome back to transcending humanity. This is episode 44. I think yeah, wow. Let's get them kind of crazy. Just to reminder, the views and opinions of the people on this podcast are their own, and not those of the organizations, companies, whatever that they represent. So yeah, don't go after our bosses. Our Patreon is live, we have a couple of new Patreon patrons. Thank you very much to the two of you. And let's see, our merch store is also live, I'm still waiting on my samples for the shirts to see how they look. Unfortunately, when I moved my change of address, computer confused the substitute mail carrier, and they thought that no one lived here. So they sent them all back to the printers. So I have to pay for them to get sent to me again, and who knows when I'll see them. So. But I've been adding little things to the merch store, here and there. If you buy things from there, you support our show. And yeah, Patreon money, merch store money. It's all about money. That's it's like all we ask for any more money, just send us money and shit. So this week, we have Jonna Michelle, who is an anti corporate brand photographer with us as our guest in we're going to just be chatting about all the kinds of stuff that is passionate for her. It's wonderful having another photographer on here. As many of you know, I'm a professional photographer as well. I generally more deal in real estate. So definitely check her out in China, if you go ahead and give yourself give yourself an introduction in all that wonderful stuff.

Jonna: 2:17

Sure, Hello transcending humanity community. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. As Vanessa said, I am Jonna Michelle of Jonna Michelle photography, and I'm an anti corporate brand photographer. So I specifically serve - *clip cut error*

Vanessa: 2:32

Jenni is my co host this week. Say Hi, Jenni.

Jenni: 2:36

Hi, Jenni!

Vanessa: 2:38

*Nonsensical gibberish*. Jenni and I are gonna be hitting on each other. Yeah, you know, as it is. So I'm just Yeah. And so we are going to be talking about just the importance of image brand image when you're a small business. I used to run a small manufacturing company, we manufactured creepers the things that you lay on and grow underneath cars with. And we had, we were the most expensive creeper in the market by a huge margin. Like most creepers were$20. Ours were 150. So we had to sell the value. We focused on the fact that our products were American made. And we use comedy in our advertising. We focused on customer support, where our warranty policy was pretty much idiot proof. Like we were we we were pretty accepting with the bullshit that people called in with us. And it made us popular we were the only brand name creeper on the market for many years. It's gone now because my dad's a fucking idiot and killed himself. But other than that, so But working on the brand was vitally important to us, especially the Made in America aspect of the products. Because that's where that's what matters to our, to the consumers. So China, what tell us all about like, what kind of advice you give to people.

Jonna: 4:19

I give all kinds of advice to people all the time. But when it comes to brand imaging, specifically, especially like I said, when you're a small business owner, entrepreneur, really standing out in the marketplace is vital. And especially given how social media is such a huge part of marketing. Now, there's so much competition, there's so much saturation. So if you're just posting a cellphone selfie, like everyone's doing that that's not going to make you different, it's not going to help you stand out. And it's really not going to showcase your authenticity, your quality. What you bring that's different So I really always try to encourage people, not only to invest in high quality brand images when you're self employed and doing things on your own, but then I also try to go a step further and really help small business owners understand how to put their images to work for them, and use them to get, you know, the most mileage and most, you know, to maximize their best sell, got

Vanessa: 5:22

any sort of advertising is expensive. So when you're small business, it's all about finding the most creative ways to do as much as you can for cheap. So researching how social media works is especially important, especially organic reach and stuff like that. And when you focus on your brand to offer something different, and I like to think that when owners kind of inject their personalities into the products as well, I think that can help a lot to make things a little bit more personal. Absolutely

Jonna: 6:01

is when you're when you're your own business as I am and as you are, you know, with the podcast, you are your brand, like that's it, there's no differentiating between those things. So yeah, absolutely. Bring your personality out. Bring what makes you unique out different, all that good stuff. Yeah,

Vanessa: 6:24

definitely. That's important. Jenni, you're in sales? What can the branding have you been doing? Because I know you've been starting to do more. You've been you've been a pretty busy girl. I know,

Jenni: 6:38

I hate social media, I mean that. I take usually a little hiatus from social media once a year, and I do it for about four to six months, I need it. It's just like good for my mental health. And I am required to be on social media all the time, with the sales that I do, we are corporate. So my store does have its own marketing that our manager does, but I'm really responsible for bringing in new customers. And I do a lot of you know, I do I do some tiktoks, I do have my own Tiktok, I did have one that went viral that I'm very proud of. But otherwise, I'm learning. And I had always heard this, I'd heard of that kind of please correct me if I'm wrong. This is just what I remember learning from years ago that like there was like an 8020. Like you, you want a lot of your stuff to be not just selling or not just throwing your product out there that you want to do other stuff. And I again, I don't like social media, but I already have my own personal tick tock trans loving mana on Tiktok me below and i But that's all about like creating transformative content from the perspective of a parent. And then I have my own Facebook, which I wouldn't even be on if it weren't for this job, but I have to use marketplace. So having more stuff to manage and stay on top of and make sure that I'm hosting regularly and you know, is this much of it, you know, regular interactive content is this much this and as some of it educated, I hate it. I hate all of it. It's It's not me. I don't know who is successful at this. I think it's probably people who do things like I've seen people even create like a content calendar, and I can all create the content calendar, and then it will just sit there. Because if I'm busy one day, and then I don't do that thing that day, will now it all hope is lost. I wish my brain didn't work that way it kind of does. And so then I'll forget about it for like two weeks, I'll try to get back on it. It's just not who I am. So you know, but I do try to make things as funny as I can actually try to make things educational, because kind of one lines of what Jonna was saying, you know, What sets me apart in my opinion as a salesperson is that I am not pushy period, period. In fact, I assume that if you are coming in you are not buying today. And that is the opposite of what every sales man buffer will tell you to do. So every single person is a buyer at that minute why assume every person is a serious buyer, and I'm gonna treat everyone like they're serious buyer. But that day, I mean, you're talking about I sell mobile homes, Shawn, you're talking about a 7080 upwards to $200,000 purchase. And I exist, my little store is like right here. And right over here are three other mobile home stores. People are shopping, they want to look they want to go make sure they're getting exactly what they want the best deal I knew, that's how I shot. So I'm not pushy at all. I get a lot of people who come back for that reason. And so that's what I really try to shine through to differentiate myself is to show you that I am not here to put you in a position of buyer's remorse. I hate that feeling. I am not here to put you in a position of feeling like you have bitten off more than you can chew. Maybe later you have some property taxes go up and you are right there on that edge of not being able to afford your home and now It's an affordable deduplicate closure. I've been through a foreclosure. So those are the two ways that I want to bring some humanity into sales. And because, you know, most people don't like salespeople. And there's a reason for that, like that. So,

Transcending Humanity: 10:15

you know,

Jonna: 10:15

I will say thank you for that, like I, you know, I'm new to entrepreneurship, right, like, I just found my LLC in October. But as I've ventured further down that path, it's superduper clear that I think women and people from marginalized communities do things differently than like, the traditional was salesperson. And I think that that under percentage, I like number one, and number two, you know, in my business, I'm primarily selling to other women. So of course, I'm not going to be pushy, like, that's, that's terrible, and ridiculous. And then I totally, totally hear what you're saying, Now, hate relationship with social media and how you navigate that. And you know, what we didn't get into, I bring 15 years of experience in activist communications to this role. And I can mark it and tell the stories of like, all these organizations, and all these people that are doing these amazing things, but to market yourself is absolutely terrifying. It's like really, really, really scary. It's really intimidating. But then that's also the reasons I wanted to step into this space. Because when you have these beautiful images that you're proud of, and that you feel good about, like it's a lot easier to make the posts, you know, do all that stuff. And for those listening who might be new to this, I'll leave two tips. One is something that I'm I'm borrowing from another small business owner bit five, find once a week, five things to do to market yourself. That's it, just five small things. And I always tell people, especially if you're a solopreneur, activist, whatever, extend your brand image to your business card, because it is an easy thing to do. And it makes a huge impression. And then people put the face with the name. And there you go.

Vanessa: 12:04

That's amazing advice. Get talking about salespeople, and like the old version of salespeople is dying away, because you know, women Gen Z, even Millennials are sick of that shit. Honestly,

Jenni: 12:21

you're dealing with such with more educated buyers used to be if you wanted to know how a vacuum, you know which vacuum was better, and you're waiting on a door to door salesman or you're going to a store and you had somebody in a suit. I can remember there was a place called Oh, now I don't remember might have been like Circuit City. But yes, I could say that I and they still were suit and tie and you buy Oh like presentation on what made these TVs differently, you know, different consumer now I can access that information anytime of day. People still don't always with things like the homes that I sell, because you kind of assume they're all the same. You know, or a lot of times price is a price is a big issue. Generally people not always generally people who are buying mobile homes, price is their biggest issue. That's why they're buying. And so you know, they're just looking at a price. And so like Jonna was saying earlier, bringing that value and showing them the value, like my our homes are on a frame, you don't have to put on mobile home store to change your doors. You can go to Lowe's or Home Depot. That's how well our homes are built. They're just it's a house, and it's on a frame that we're going to move to your property, but you just have a different, you have a different buyer. Now they can research they can find out the information that they want. And when it comes down to price, it really is about providing that value. And she wise it just looks like Well, why is there's$20,000 cheaper? Well, where would you cut $20,000 in costs on a 1600 square foot home? Yeah, that's why it's cheaper. So

Vanessa: 13:58

you get what you pay for.

Advertisement: 14:00

Family is your favorite radio personality and a dish Shawn and I bring you the queer news podcast every Monday by 7am Chicago time. I'm talking politics and following all these anti trans bills. I'm talking culture and won awards for our Brittney Griner coverage. Okay, I'm talking entertainment, like the latest queer movies and television. If you are looking to stay in the know, pod into queer news, we are queer news done right? Listen inside the cube app or wherever you get your podcasts. Jana.

Vanessa: 14:31

So how do you incorporate your personal photography into helping other brands?

Jonna: 14:37

So that's I think, where a lot of my activism comes by so I come from a really proud Indian family and I have 15 years of experience in the labor movement, standing up for workers rights and economic justice and all those good things. And I'm also a storyteller, right I'm trained as a journalist. In fact, that's where I got my start in photography. I went to school for print journalism, and one thing led To another indexing, you know, I have like all this gear in my lap, and I just had to figure it out. So I sort of combine all of these things, my deep desire to connect with people to get to know people to know people's stories, but also to make people feel comfortable, and to help them show up in front of the camera. And so what I like to do is really, really take my time with each of my clients, I like to get to know them, I like to get to know who they are, what they're doing, what they're passionate about, you know, what makes them different. And then, you know, put a lot of planning into the session. And then during this session, it's really just up in the camera, working one on one, working very closely with people again to massage any fears, help them overcome anxiety, body image issues, whatever they may have going on in their life, just to have a moment where they're feeling like really proud, really confident, and really stepping up for themselves. I

Vanessa: 16:00

love that. Earlier, you mentioned, like five things a week, like little marketing things a week. And I like that idea. That's not something I've really thought about, but because you know, little things pop up in your head all the time, or you'll be just wandering around and something funny comes up. And a lot of times, if you find something funny, someone else will as well. And if you can incorporate six little events in your life to personalize your business, and make like relatable stories. I think that that can have a lot of impact to what with just some examples of those quick little marketing ideas be for you.

Jonna: 16:39

Such a great question. So I, I market myself, I'm one of the only photographers I know that has an email newsletter. And it's one of my favorite things. Because of my background as a writer, I feel like it's also that internet connection where I'm talking directly to someone. And if you pay super close attention, you'll notice if you get my email, a lot of times that's content that I've just repurposed from Instagram, that I've just repurposed from LinkedIn, maybe I'll do something on Facebook, maybe I'll do a story. And so just again, finding ways to create something that's really good speaks to my audience, and then recycling it and repurposing it and getting maximum use out of it. Actually,

Vanessa: 17:21

email newsletters. That's something I don't do, but I probably should not, I think I didn't even cross my mind, really. But like, I thought you're talking about repurposing things like posts on Instagram and LinkedIn. Don't be afraid to do that. Because a lot of times what you post if you, if you add that to a newsletter, a good chunk of the time, your followers won't have seen it already anyways, because that's just how the algorithm works. Like, I'll make a post I have, you know, on Facebook 2500 followers, I'll make a post and it only reaches 500 of them or so. So you don't need to be afraid of like repeating content. And you can also go into like word things a little bit differently. So it's not a complete regurgitation. You can even take your text that you have, if if you're not other journalists background like Shana, take the text that you have and plug it into chat GPT or something like that to give a different spin on it. Do you just work with local people or like all over the country?

Jonna: 18:23

I would eventually like to get to a point when we're working with people all over the country. In fact, I'm leaving. I'm from Nebraska originally, I live in Washington, DC now, I've got my first paid gig in Nebraska. Do you wanna shoot for a nonprofit that is entered into a corporate farming or I guess they they're fighting corporate farms. So they're a corporate? I'm very excited about

Vanessa: 18:47

that's really cool. Farming is a thing that so many people don't realize what goes into it. I know Jeremy Clarkson is a pretty divisive person. I've liked him for years ever since Top Gear and Grand Tour. But if you can tolerate watching and listening to him, just going off on a tangent on farming on amazon prime is a show called Clarkson's fired. And he really highlights this. It's in England. So it's different, a little bit different, obviously from the Americans situation, but I'm guessing there's a fair amount of carryover. And he just highlights how much bullshit independent farmers have to go through, just to try to scrape by and how hard it is for them to be competitive in you are completely dependent on the weather and the health of your animals, the health of your your crops, what have you. It's a fascinating show to watch just on the farming tangent. So you've been able to work with independent farmers to push back against the corporate. I imagine. They are always at risk of being smothered by the big corporations.

Jonna: 20:00

Am I right? I would even go a step further and say, We're reaching a point now where they don't even have an opportunity to be smothered. That's what we're seeing, especially in Nebraska, where I'm from. So we used to Nebraska used to actually have a ban on corporate farming. My understanding is they lifted that ban, I'll have to double check it all those facts to you. But it basically means that young people like me and younger than me who want to go into family farming, no longer have the resources to be able to even buy land to start doing that, because the corporation's come in, jack up the price, of course, destroy the environment, treat their animals horribly treat the land horribly. And suddenly, you know, the regular people are just left with nothing. So yeah, that's like it's, you know, destroying a way of life destroying communities, agriculture,

Jenni: 20:56

all of it. Like

Vanessa: 20:57

what a lot of people don't realize is, as a society as a world we rely on farmers, independent farmers to rather than just the corporate ones, because when it comes to corporate, anything corporate, they're all about the money and independent people. It's, it's a way of life, it's a passion, but if it gets to the point where it's impossible for them to do it, we're gonna find ourselves in the situation where we are 100% reliant on corporations for food, which is a terrifying thing. Because we know what corporations like to do reflation. Amazon just announced that they're dropping their grocery prices by up to 30%. Because you know, people can't afford him. Well, yeah, they can't afford it. Because companies like you jacked up all your fucking prices for no reason.

Jenni: 21:48

I know we can we even be Oh, you're just able to drop them by 30%? Oh, I mean, it's, it's shocking to me to hear that. I know. It's not surprising. Jamie, like, I'm not surprised. But it's shocking to the system to hear some of that. So wait a second, you could have lowered the prizes the whole time. They were we've decided to now. Sorry.

Jonna: 22:13

Yeah. This is just the you know, again, going back to Unity is it's the Walmart model just reinvented in a different way. So prior to Walmart looks, we're relying on Mom and Pop local businesses, they had to go to different stores to get what they needed. Walmart comes in, they locate themselves slightly out of town. They bring in all these foreign made goods, which as a labor activist, you know, we're talking about workers rights issues, human rights in other countries now lower the prices, the mom and pop businesses can no longer stay in business. And then Walmart is employing all these people and also paying them poverty wages. So now you've got this entire lifecycle in a community where everyone is fully dependent on something like Walmart, and they can't escape that and I feel like Amazon is, you know, Jeff Bezos, whether you think she's a genius, or evil, or whatever you want to look at, is doing the same thing. But somehow on an even grander scale. It's mind boggling. Amazon

Vanessa: 23:17

is mind boggling is a very good way of putting it like I still buy from Amazon just because out of necessity really. And all of I know many of us that buy from Amazon feel horrible about doing it. But a lot of it is because it's so hard to find anything anywhere there's no mom and pop shops around anymore it's you have to pick whichever evil is the one you can tolerate most you know I refuse to step foot in a Walmart because I've seen what they've done to country said I will give you props for that. Yeah, like well because especially being in manufacturing we refuse to work with Walmart because they dictated everything about your company they're like this is what we're going to pay for your product and the number they give you would be below your manufacturing cost and that's why so much shit goes overseas because that's the only way that people can afford to manufacture things in their for to manufacturing in this country. It has just gone poof for the most part gods come back a little bit but not under any sort of grand skill. But you know I with my move I've ordered a bunch of stuff on Amazon because I'm guilty of the convenience of it and or people send me gift cards and stuff for it yen but I hate it and so what advice Janet to you give to little brands on standing up against their evil corporate overlords.

Jonna: 24:53

So I mean, one of the reasons that I decided to get into this anti corporate you Rance is because I wanted to create a community of other small business owners and like minded people who wanted us to be able to support each other. And, you know, I don't know what communities you all live in and what communities folks are tuning in from. But here in DC, I'm very lucky because we have a very, very rich, small maker, community, local business community, it's wonderful. And in my county, actually Montgomery County, Maryland, we're talking to you from, we did not have Walmart in our community, we have successfully pushed it out. And it's amazing. And I'll give a shout out to as well, too. We just had a bunch of our makers in DC and the surrounding area come together and create the first dc makers guild. So this really is like a union for small level manufacturing people who are making things by hand, whether that's candles and stationery, or there's another woman who reads it is she calls herself bicycle paths, she makes art in clothing out of like old bicycle parts. It's amazing. There's a leather worker who makes bags. And we are realizing that the community that we have doesn't support us in the way we need it to. So we have the answer together, and are going to start making our voices heard and do it collectively. And it's incredible.

Vanessa: 26:26

That's, that's amazing. makers is actually a term I haven't heard. Ginni, were you looking at the talk? No, no, I thought, Oh, you're scratching your face. I was looking at my door dash being delivered. And so makers is a term I haven't really heard before, I would say you kind of equivalent that to artisans. And

Jonna: 26:47

so I think when people think of artisans, and they may think more, more craft or more visual arts makers, really, in many ways identify as like as a very small scale manufacturing. I

Vanessa: 27:00

really like that that's a term I've never heard. There's I'm trying to think of anything like that around me. Channing, is there anything around Tulsa like that?

Jenni: 27:11

I can't think of anything. But I'm pretty insulated at this point. Like I don't keep up with I have no idea what's going on outside of my door anymore.

Vanessa: 27:21

Yeah, I mean, I feel that too, you know, being being in a red area, I just moved even deeper into the red. But I can imagine DC would just have to have some absolutely amazing things.

Jenni: 27:34

We definitely have some really incredible, like local artists who get together for different local, like vendor events and stuff. And we always try to support that when it comes to you know, I was thinking as you were talking about local farming, live some great farmers markets, I love him. But I saw somebody you know, kind of posts the other day on one of the farmers markets pages. Well, you guys lie and say you have organic but your your strawberries are so big, there's no way they're organic, or how did you end up with tomatoes this time of year when most people haven't planted yet? And you know, when the local farmers came on and said, Have you heard of greenhouses? Like, what?

Transcending Humanity: 28:10

*Gibberish*

Vanessa: 28:13

People are just nuts? They are. So you said that you like to work with marginalized communities. Tell me a little bit more about that. Like how what has inspired you for that? Again,

Jonna: 28:29

I think it just goes back to who I am as a person. In my training as a journalist, my entire life I've always been, I've always found the person who's a little younger, outside and warm or outside the corporate world, way more fascinating and interesting than like, a white dude in a business suit. But then, as I've, you know, stepped into this space, I'm realizing that many people, you know, whether you're female like me, non binary, transgender, maybe you have different identities, maybe you're the child of immigrants, you know, whatever your identity is, that is not standard corporate America, that comes with some heaviness, right, and that comes with it. Just some things that you have to navigate. And so like I said, just being able to step out for those people, helping them feel comfortable and confident in front of the camera so that we can make gorgeous images that they can use to plot themselves, their missions. You know, whatever they're doing. That's just it brings me so much joy and that's why I do this.

Vanessa: 29:33

I mean, that's, that's amazing. Speaking on behalf of the queer community, like there are so many queer industries, queer people around here that are afraid to get in front of a camera, they're afraid to be from home, because honestly, they've just been beat down so much. So having someone to give them the confidence to express their personalities is is exceedingly important. I've just found that by trial and error, and I still don't know what the fuck I'm doing really.

Jonna: 30:06

Let me tell you even as straight people I'm like,

Vanessa: 30:10

That's very true. Very true. Like, I've been trying to build up my photography company and I trying to inject my personality into it. And but by it's, it's slow going to do with your photographer too. So yeah, I know, Jenni, you and inject your personality a lot, which I think has been helping your sales. Because people start to ask for you in particular anymore, don't the video, which is

Jenni: 30:40

really great. If we're not to inject my personality, I am, I am a lot, I am just whatever I think feel experience, I wear it right here. You can this I'm not good at. I'm not getting a pretend at pretending to be something different anymore. There was a there was a long time that I was pretty good at it. And we're not good at it anymore. I think it wore out this year

Vanessa: 31:03

it is. I mean, authenticity is so important in everything now. Like if you think about just advertisements, some of the ads that stand out the most are just ones that are just honest and open and poke fun at themselves. I don't I don't remember the name of the advertising company. But they've done stuff like squatty potty, and fucking, I can't remember what all allows. But they've done a lot of labs, I think purple mattresses, and the way that they advertise is so relatable. And it makes you want to actually watch the ad and buy their product. Because there's authenticity involved with it. It's so silly, but it's how the world works now. That's why micro influencers are so powerful, such a powerful tool for brands nowadays too. Because it personalizes it, and then people see that, you know, if a brand is investing in this individual person, you know, 510 1000 followers, it shows that they are actually paying attention to them their market. Jana, do you? Do you give any advice on your clients with breathing on micro and the micro influencers and stuff like that, or? Not?

Jonna: 32:31

Really, we haven't. I think I'm just starting out in small enough that I really had gotten to that point. For me, it's just like I said, really about helping people show up and still Satan calm and comfortable, confident and all these good things.

Vanessa: 32:48

That's all very important. So when you do your photography, you focus on the people and their products. And do you do like events and stuff for people are what I'll be doing

Jonna: 33:01

do offense event photographers, in my experience, get treated like garbage, and I'm not about that life. So I really focus on really gorgeous portraiture, featuring, like I said, small business owners, creatives makers and activists. And I also do do product photography, because I do love showcasing like the gorgeous craftsmanship of people who make things and I'll help people you know, I'll style all the products stage them so that people can have like a cohesive brains across all of their their platforms and really make their things stand out in ways that they probably wouldn't be able to do on their own. Do

Vanessa: 33:41

you do like brand blueprints with people at all, because you said how to kind of keep your consistency along a brand. I know those have become more popular.

Jonna: 33:49

I don't do a lot of bland brand blueprinting in my mind as far as being a graphic designer would do. But like I said, I definitely work really closely with clients to understand what their brand is what they want to convey in their messages. I always tell people you know, especially visually if you've got brands, colors and you're set on those, definitely incorporate those into your photos. It is amazing what can happen and you know, if you've got let's say your brand colors are red and black and you show up in your wearing those colors and then incorporate that into your website, your Instagram, your social media, your printed materials, press packet, how that can just really helped to solidify that brand recognition in a really unique and creative way.

Vanessa: 34:35

That's amazing advice. Really. It's something that a lot of people don't really consider but when you think about even like big brands like colors, when you think pink, you're gonna think T Mobile. And when you have an established set of themes, when it pops up, people are going to recognize that it's going to pull something up in their subconscious by Oh, I know them And it's that's really powerful to be able to do that. And I imagine they can even go to just look, the way that you light the products to like you could have some clients, I imagine would have some really harsh and bold lighting, to make their stuff stand out, others would have softer lighting, there's so much that you can do with lighting and editing, saturation. Product Photography is a lot of fun, because you can really play around with it, it's, it's something I haven't been able to do in a long time, I'm really hoping to try to find some product, some clients for product photography, because humans are visual, and especially when we're buying things I find is as a real estate photographer, it's very important, where a lot of agents will just go and take photos with their with their phones. And then the houses that they sell just sit on the market forever, because there's just the shitty brown washed out photos. And then when people hire me for real estate photography, I think my average average time on market is about five days or house houses that I photograph, it makes a huge difference to you want to showcase what you're selling, and especially on things like a bigger things like what Jenni's doing was selling mobile homes, that's a major purchase. I you'll see it a lot with like car dealerships, too. Or sometimes they'll just post crap pictures, and you're like, I don't really want to do that when there's another dealership that spends, you know, the extra 20 bucks, you know, to take a better photo, and all of that stuff just make it makes such a huge difference. Though I

Jonna: 36:42

love that you're able to say that you can say like my image itself homes in five days. That's incredible. And what you're saying everything about, you know, humans are visual creatures and images make a huge difference. You're 100% Spot on. I don't know if you've heard this before. But humans actually process images 60,000 times faster than we process words. And so that's why visual imagery is critically important. Again, especially if you're a small business owner, and you're you know, trying to make a name and a brand for yourself on your own

Vanessa: 37:14

Well, shit, Jenni! There's some ideas for you like, set up like a personal brand within your corporate brand to make you stand out a little bit more.

Jenni: 37:25

I would like to be the anti saleswoman.

Jonna: 37:28

If you need a brand photographer I know one

Jenni: 37:33

C'mon to Oklahoma, hey, we might you might ask me, how are you? Nebraska, I will take out a loan to afford you bring it.

Vanessa: 37:41

It's all about connections, right? That's also another good point for brandy to life is all about connections. Find other people that their brands would accentuate set the right word, my brain is complement there we go complement yours, and try to partner up with them too. Because then you're getting the marketing from both of you. You can both like, especially in social media, go on Instagram, to collaborative posts, you get twice the reach. And then people that might not have known about you but knew about the person that you're collaborating with. Might start buying your stuff and vice versa. So established relationships. I don't know what else. But my brain works is working too hard on the whole marketing aspect to things. Jenna for consumers? What advice do you have for people that want to that would like to buy more from independent smaller makers and stuff like that? Do you have recommendations on like, where they can find these people locally?

Jonna: 38:53

Every community that I've ever lived in whether it's a small town, you know, two stoplights or major metropolis and one of the most powerful cities in the world has people and artists want to make things so they're definitely out there. I think it's just a matter of getting out into your community getting away from your TV getting away from your computer. Meeting people you know so I know in this part of the country, these markets are so popular like pop up markets and markets where you can sell buy and sell handcrafted items. To most communities I know have art galleries like those are great places to start artists know each other been you know if all else fails if you are in a rural community and there's not a lot of folks around that, you know, start with Etsy I mean it is you know, an online marketplace or maker and then you can go down the rabbit hole and try to find become Instagram is wonderful for finding artists and makers. I love scrolling through and see ain't like all the cool stuff that people do. It's so much fun. And then if you can't, if you're not seeing what you want, like, I hate to say this, but be the change. Go learn how to make it and sell it yourself and create that community that you're, you know, striving to see if you don't already have one.

Vanessa: 40:19

And yeah, and you create a whole new form of income for yourself, too. There's also you can also like for those of us stuck on Facebook for one reason or another, find local groups.

Transcending Humanity: 40:32

That's a great tip. Yeah. Yeah. Like,

Vanessa: 40:35

where like little events are held, because as you said, like, every small every town has one thing or another. Where even like bulletin boards, like at coffee shops, ask the estimators at the coffee shop, if you have something that you're trying to sell locally, say, Hey, can I pin a flyer up here, a lot of a lot of them just have those open for people. And you can also just go there and just look at them and see what all is available around you. You're gonna find a lot of realtors, but you might find some cool stuff too. So honestly, like a lot of if any realtors are listening to this, you work in such a competitive market, I used to be every older I'm thinking about starting it back up again, if I get enough money for photography, and just cater specifically to the queer community, find it when you're in an industry like that, where you are a dime a dozen, and there's very little loyalty. When you find a way to build your brand and set yourself aside, make something different. Sell your personalities sell things that just make yourself interesting. That's how you that's how you stand out in the crowd

Jonna: 41:45

to niching down is so incredibly, yeah, yes, yes.

Vanessa: 41:50

Yeah, but extremely important, but to the point where a lot of people don't realize it, but each niche niche niche, niche, niche, whatever, each one has way bigger reach, then you might realize that it does. So if there's something that you're passionate about, you know, focus on that in use and really built up relationships that way. Or if you're in sales do what Jenni does, like do the anti sales salesperson. Because people hate when people when people hate it when they know they're being sold to it this isn't the past that you might my grandfather was one of those salesmen that you know, travel around Fuck everything that lives and just lie cheat whatever to get the sale in that worked in the past, but not anymore. You know that that kind of mentality is you're not gonna find success with unless you're going specifically after white sis hat Christian Trump voters or something like that.

Jenni: 42:48

What is it like feel good, I don't feel good. And this actually just happened to you know, because I've been texting you that I've been in a funk, I end up having this stupid competition, where if I got X amount of like applications done deposits on a new home, I would win an Apple Watch. And when I telling you I have wanted an Apple Watch for years, but I have never sprung for one myself, I real bad about buying myself kind of upscale what I consider luxury items just because it always feels very wasteful to me, but I've always wanted one. And so I am one deposit away one. And if for some reason was just a really good month for me well yesterday, because I have to have it by Saturday. Yesterday, I had people come in at the last minute. And I felt myself do it. I felt myself get get pushier than I normally am. Because all I was thinking about was what I wanted. I wanted that was I had one more to go the deposits are refundable. If you decide you don't like this, you'd have your money back what's the hurt, I want my watch. But because I was committed to what I wanted a I didn't get the sale and beat and I and I think it's because it's not me and I came across as being fake because I was and I came home last night and just felt gross. I hated the way I felt about it. Because at the end of the day i i probably created a situation and people did then where people did not feel safe to come back to me. And it just left me feeling really, really yucky. So you know I don't know what kind of like who you have to sell your soul to to get to where you can do that kind of stuff. I get it. I know people did. And maybe you just tell yourself, hey, I'm going to I'm going to pay my kids college tuition. So it doesn't matter how I treated that person. I can't I clearly can't do it because it left was funky. Like I did. I just did not feel okay about myself. And that's hard because I still want to pay my kids college tuition. But I am convinced that if I do the right thing that whether it's in sales or something else in a workout, so we'll see.

Vanessa: 44:55

That's definitely important. That's something that I've heard As advice for people selling things is, it's really easy to get kind of lost in your own head in what you know, and not take the time to listen to your customers, learn about them learn trends and stuff like that. Like the way that we do things automatically might not be the way that most people do. So you also have to learn how to adapt. So we're running a little bit low on time. Jana, what else? Do you have to tell us what what's on your mind? What do you want to get out in the air to our 95 listeners?

Jonna: 45:36

Hi, ma'am. If I was, um, you know, I, one of the reasons that I was so excited when we connected is because of, you know, trans visibility and how much the GLBT community needs to believe that you are in a space where you feel like you can be safe and you feel like you can be a voice for other people. Again, you have no idea how much your visual identity and your brand's image, the impact somebody else that

Vanessa: 46:03

is amazing about other people, if you can put yourself out there as a leader in an industry are in a community, in queer community in you know, a minority community, whatever, it can give other people the courage to do it as well, even that's how change starts. It starts with it's a snowball effect, really. I mean, that's one reason I ran for office when I ran for office because I wanted to show others I wanted to give other security to do it as well, like I knew getting elected was such a complete fucking longshot, like 1% chance that I would have gotten elected. But there's that 1% chance. And also, other people saw someone like me running, or other people might see someone like me running a company, being vocal, being obnoxious. Putting people in their place when I have to other people look up to that. And they can give them the courage to do it as well. And you can change people's lives she can just by how you lead in an industry. Other people can pop up, and could they become competitors, maybe. But hopefully, they're good enough people that they recognize where they got the courage from where they got their ideas from. And everything changes from there. So Jenni, do you have final thoughts? Final thoughts?

Jenni: 47:31

Or it was so awesome to meet you, Jonna. And I already got some ideas from you. So thanks. Excellent. Well, thank

Transcending Humanity: 47:38

you. So we need you guys to go. You

Jenni: 47:42

guys good to see your gorgeous face. And SN like Scott was,

Vanessa: 47:46

you'll see you'll see that person personal hopefully pretty soon, you know, in places that are not suitable for audiences under 18. So Jenna, tell people where they can follow you where they can learn more. So

Jonna: 48:04

you can find me on Instagram at Jonna Michelle photography. I'm anti corporate brands photographer. So look for that, you'll see my dope leather jacket, which I got my own brand. And again, I'm on LinkedIn, also, Gianna Michelle photography, and I've got an email newsletter. There are links to those things, please, please, please sign up for the email newsletter. And as I venture down this path as I do more podcasts, interviews, because folks listening to this, if you reach out, tell me one thing that you love about yourself, I will grant you 15% off a lifestyle session.

Vanessa: 48:44

That is badass. And that's the positive energy. You know, that's one thing that we know a lot of us don't think about, like something that we like about ourselves. And it's healthy to sometimes stand back and do that. And he's you're getting a monetary reward,

Jonna: 49:01

like half paper is joining our interview. But I sit for people, beautiful people coming to me and they're gorgeous and they have so much to offer. And they are so beat down and anxious and nervous and feeling crappy about themselves and I attributed to the corporate climate that we live in and people you know, put Americans on you that you have to hate yourself and I'm I'm over it like we're kind of Yeah.

Vanessa: 49:28

So essentially the message to take from this is signed up the Jenna's newsletter because if you learn stuff here you're gonna learn stuff from her newsletter corporations such and send us as a show five bucks a month. Chatter thank you so much for joining us this. This was seriously educational and I really hope that people find find this one very, very helpful for them in raising interview and let's have you back soon time if you're interested, settled, I'd love to come back. I think it'd be fun to have a panel of people like you to just kind of vent what's in your brains, giving advice for people in life and business in whatever, just to help people succeed. So it'd be something fun to put together sometime.

Jonna: 50:24

I would love that. I'm down and I just wanted to thank you for yourself standing up, stepping out, giving a voice to the trans and queer community. I love it. We need more people like you.

Vanessa: 50:36

I'm hoping people hear the show and do that very thing. So thank you to our listeners and watchers for joining us for another week. Transcending humanity, believe it or not, I actually have the next like, four episodes lined up for the first time. I know this never happens, I guess lined up. So go me, I guess. But yeah, we will see you next week. With I can tell you actually let me let me tell people who they can expect next week. And next week, we have Emily a barn here and I will get into that more next week. So thank you again, have a good one, listeners, people