Copywriting, Branding, and Building Connections with Emily Aborn - Episode 45

Join Vanessa Joy in this engaging episode of the Transcending Humanity Podcast as she dives into an insightful conversation with the brilliant copywriter Emily Aborn. This episode is packed with insights and laughs as Vanessa and Emily discuss the art of copywriting, the importance of brand blueprints, and the challenge of writing about oneself.

Discover how clear and effective copy can drive actions and why consistency in branding matters. Emily shares her journey from running a retail shop to becoming a successful copywriting professional, emphasizing the power of genuine relationships in business.

You'll also hear about the frustrations with website builders, the joys of using AI tools like Grammarly, and the importance of setting boundaries in business. Vanessa and Emily wrap up the episode with a fun game of Cards Against Humanity, proving that even serious topics can have a playful twist.

Tune in for a blend of practical advice, personal anecdotes, and a lot of laughs!

Highlights:

• The difference between copywriting and content creation
• The role of AI tools in enhancing writing
• Building genuine connections and relationships in business
• Setting boundaries with clients to align with personal values
• A fun game of Cards Against Humanity

More about Emily:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@emilyaborn7203

Website: emilyaborn.com

Instagram: instagram.com/emilyaborn

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/emilyaborn

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Vanessa: 0:00

It counts to one but then like it'll pop like you on the screen or me on the screen and not both again. Hello webcam focus on me Here we go. Anyways hello everybody welcome back to transcending humanity This is episode as as our guest Emily's do we have to call it 45 But I realized in these episodes I never introduced myself like ever so I'm Vanessa Joy also known as Australia and I am the person that kind of just took over the show I just read it now so because you know, control freak and shit like that. As a reminder, the views and opinions of anyone and everyone on the show are their own and not their respective employers organizations, what have you. I would also like to as usual, remind everybody at the Patreon the patrons Patreon Patreon. Patreon stores their shit I forgot to pull up the names of our new patrons I'm sorry, I will have to make a list I think I put it on like an intro of YouTube though so like right here hopefully that'll be popping up saying thank you because I'm scatterbrained and merch store. I finally got one piece. And of course my camera doesn't like it. There we go. And under tag, I'm not sure if it's gonna show up or not. But where is it? Right here. I don't know how well you can read it but instead of a tag it says fuck conservatives, so which is getting bigger? Anyways, I've been just yammering on importantly sitting there like what the fuck did I get myself into?

Emily Aborn: 1:54

I didn't know if you want to move live responding or just waiting lighter. You can

Vanessa: 1:59

do whatever you can do whatever you want. So, but your face was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, I ramble. And anyways. Our guest my guest, whatever this week is Emily Eborn. Right. mucins. Right. Yeah. So they can run with B, it's easy enough to remember. And so I'm going to let her do the introductions rather than try to introduce herself. So Emily, give us two minute. Everything

Emily Aborn: 2:30

Darn I don't even have like us, like any swag to show the camera or anything. Um, thanks for having me. This is so fun. I'm looking forward to it. And sorry, I didn't know if you want to be like responding to what you're saying? No. Okay, I'm like she's doing with it. Um, I'm Emily, a born as aforementioned, and I'm a copywriter. I'm also a podcast guest which our podcast hosts sorry, we're just how we met, we met through a podcast collective that we're in. Um, and I don't know, I really liked what I do. And I had this like epiphany today where sometimes I think if you like what you do for work, you feel like you have to make some sort of excuse or you have to make up some reason that like, oh, but it's not good all the time. But actually, I just like it all the time. Yeah, I like it.

Vanessa: 3:18

I get what you mean. I'm like that with protect photography. The only thing I don't like is when home sellers don't turn on the air conditioning, but I'm just a whiner. So anyways, go on. So

Emily Aborn: 3:31

I think that's it. I don't know. I live in New Hampshire. I went to school in Ohio. That's where I am that Football Hall of Fame. Canton, Ohio.

Vanessa: 3:41

I'm in wrestling right now. Oh, crazy.

Emily Aborn: 3:43

Yeah, right down the road. Yeah. Cool. Small world. Very small world. Yes. There was a chocolate shop in Canton, North Canton. And I used to tutor for the family. It was like a really well known family that I used to tutor their daughter.

Vanessa: 3:59

Like every week. So chapter shops coexist, because I like chocolate.

Emily Aborn: 4:03

Not sure. But it was so good. Like there was a meal with giant boxes like cashew color, cut chocolate covered cashews and like turtles. And it was so amazing. Okay.

Vanessa: 4:14

I still would not be able to handle being around kids like that. But when chocolates involved it would help, you know, in well. So, Emily, I'm going to kind of go by our little outline that I sent you. So please

Emily Aborn: 4:34

do make us both feel great. Yeah.

Vanessa: 4:38

Tell us what to you is copywriting.

Emily Aborn: 4:42

That's a good question. Because actually, some people think that copywriting is like that little sea that's at the bottom of a piece of like the bottom of a publication or at the beginning of a book. That's copyright. That is not what I do. I do like the copy that people find on websites and also in their marketing materials. So I say that I do content and copy because here's the differentiation, like for business owners copy typically is written with a goal of like getting you to take an action. So I'm trying to either sell you something get you to contact me, like I want you to do something from the copy that I'm laying out content and sometimes they intertwine, but content is more like the kind of like nurturing educational relationship building community based, you know, sharing that kind of thing. So I do both, because I think that they're both really, really important for our businesses. But like, what lights me up, I think is when somebody wants to get a little crazy with their website and let their like personality out and just like have a little bit of fun and and step outside the boundaries. I guess. I like that.

Vanessa: 5:55

Yeah. Do you ever copyright your copywriting? Like, see copy? It seems funny.

Emily Aborn: 6:05

Technically, it is copyrighted. Like if you go to the bottom of a website, you'll see like copyright, but the website designer takes the kind of credit for it, but they usually do like tie back to me in some ways. Some sometimes. I put my name at the bottom of my little brother's website the other day, because I did the whole like layout and everything, bro. Like I'm pretty sure

Vanessa: 6:26

it's not my Squarespace. It's like Emily. Exactly. Squarespace no sponsor, but they could be

Transcending Humanity: 6:34

20% Off we can get

Vanessa: 6:38

but Yeah, no shit. I send them a lot of money because I have transcending humanity site and my personal photography site. So I'm sending them like, what, 65 hours a month.

Emily Aborn: 6:50

I don't think it's cheap. Like it's not. Man, Squarespace really. I used to be on Squarespace. And it's not inexpensive. And it's not great customer service. Like they kind of leave you hanging. So really, I don't I don't love Squarespace, but okay.

Vanessa: 7:07

Well, Squarespace, if you're listening, I will take in money. You need to make it right with Emily, because

Emily Aborn: 7:14

it just does not endorse doesn't express your views. Yeah,

Vanessa: 7:19

I'm happy to take people's money. I will sell out pretty pretty easily. But I just I enjoy it. I've never had to use their customer service, though. So yeah, the only thing that was annoying was during I had a period. I don't know if you listened to the previous shows, but I really dark period, right? Like, I don't want to have a show anymore. And I deleted the website. And then I immediately regretted it. So I reactivated it. But they charged me full price again. I'm like, shit, but whatever. So lesson learned, if you if you get snippy and you want to delete your website from Squarespace, don't do that.

Emily Aborn: 7:58

Take a pause, you know, flip a coin, flip a coin. And whatever the coin comes back with, if you're happy with the result, do what the coin says if you're not happy with the result, don't do what the coin says write the coin, then you can test it out, you could test

Vanessa: 8:14

these words of wisdom, absolute words of wisdom. It's,

Emily Aborn: 8:19

it's like how I get I have a hard time making decisions. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, I don't know until I feel it. So then I'll flip a coin. And then I'm like, Oh, I don't like that response. So then I know it again.

Vanessa: 8:30

And you do it again and again. And again. I love that you were I saw something on your website, where like you're talking about the copy and content, but like you struggle to write your own copy on your own website. And I feel that so hard like i The transcending humanity website, like the main site itself has almost no text at all, because I just I used to have so much trouble just trying to come up with a description for the show because the show is now kind of hard to describe. It used to be easier because it was mainly transfer this now it's all over the place. And so my description is pretty half fast.

Emily Aborn: 9:11

I had an idea for you. So if I were to ask you, like oh, okay, like what really is the heartbeat of what you want to do in the world. Like what's like, I need to do this thing. I need to bring this into the world

Vanessa: 9:30

look at these deep questions. I was not expecting it Like usually I just do Bender from Futurama kill all humans, but I just want I want to make enough of a mark in the world in a good way that whatever I've done has helped more people than I've heard. Okay, Michael. He don't know exactly how I'm going to be achieving in the long run, but I do like him so

Emily Aborn: 10:01

and then like, what is the message you want to bring to life on this show?

Vanessa: 10:08

kill humans.

Emily Aborn: 10:10

I mean, maybe something a little bit entices people to listen. I mean, you know what? Yeah, I think actually, if you just put kill all humans, I think a lot of you get a lot of listeners, you should try that. Work back to us all and let us know how it went. Or like

Vanessa: 10:28

Suzy Desired One of her most famous bits is kick her death, you know, your character death. Immediately Susie aside,

Emily Aborn: 10:35

I should warn you I know like zero about all pole pop culture, which is another story for another day, but he knows nothing about what you're talking about.

Vanessa: 10:46

Oh, she's a comedian. And she used to go she still does sometimes go by Eddie Izzard. I love that name rings bell for you either. But to go it is hard. Okay.

Emily Aborn: 10:57

This is the truth. I was extremely sheltered as a child and like, didn't wake up to being unsheltered until I was like 30 something and then I had a lot of catching up to do like, I get a lot to take in. You know, I'm just like figuring out Taylor Swift is basically

Vanessa: 11:14

and while you're talking to the transcript if she was 40, so I feel you it's Yeah, like that veil has been ripped away from your face. Like where am I? This is weird.

Emily Aborn: 11:26

Exactly. There's a lot to take. Yeah.

Vanessa: 11:31

Oh, back with like, on my on my website, the copy, like, because Squarespace has like an AI writer thing. And I'm like, Fine, just do something. And I wrote one paragraph like the About Me paragraphs about me, but I, I did not have the wordsmith bug.

Emily Aborn: 11:50

A A client came to me recently, she's like, Hey, I wrote this page. For me, this is kind of like my brand's vibe. And I was like, Oh, my God, no, please. No, because it just sounds like everybody like a I really liked the words like, unlock unleash your inner potential alignment, you know, like, it loves those words. And I'm just like, please, we're all saying the same thing.

Vanessa: 12:13

So I think I'm ever gonna have to talk to you about writing copy for my sites. Because like, usually, I'm good at like, I am a really good writer. But like, when it comes to self promotion, I think that's what you're talking about. Like, when you're writing your own copy. It's hard. Like, it's

Emily Aborn: 12:31

hard. And there's like, so much we want to say, and it's like, how can I make sure that this makes sense? And like, there's a lot of depth to probably what you want to say it like a lot of character and richness. And you're like, how do I put all of that into this one thing. So that's what I love. Like, I like listening to what people are saying when they're when they're sharing their message and like, be like, Okay, we're going under that we're going deeper. Like, I want more. And let's peel back another layer of the onion. So that's like what I'm all about, but it is hard for me to even do with myself. Like I feel in my heart things that I'm like, I don't know how to say this. I know. It's hard. It's too hard. Yeah, feelings are too hard.

Vanessa: 13:13

You also have to have it short and concise. I know I took you through your entire message because you only have people's attention span for what seven seconds? If not, so. Yeah. Well, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Emily Aborn: 13:28

Well, it's your applet. Yeah, yeah. Welcome to content with character, the weekly podcast that'll give you the momentum, you need to create content with more ease, clarity and laughter. I'm your host content copywriter, Emily, a Warren, and I'm all about UNCONVENTIONAL marketing approaches. I believe in your big ideas, and I'm excited to help you share them in a way that's distinctly you.

Vanessa: 13:58

Yeah. So how did you get into copywriting? Okay,

Emily Aborn: 14:01

so that's fun. Um, I won't take you all the way back to when I was a kid. But I really, like wanted to be a writer since I was a little kid. Like that was my that was my thing. I did like the news, the local newspaper and like I opened all of these businesses and like, wrote the flyers for them. Like it was always inside of me, but for some reason, because zero guidance. I went to school for like health education and nutrition. And I was like, Well, I'm going to do like community health and nutrition and health coaching and stuff like that. So I follow that track for a decade and then my husband and I actually opened like a local retail shop where we sold I don't know how to explain it, but like sleep products and bedding that was like non toxic and organic. So it's like a weird like New Hampshire. I'll say this. Because Ohio we had this differentiator where I lived in New Hampshire was like this very Hurry like, like I want to say like kind of hippie crunchy natural minded like people drive like Priuses and Subarus and all those, you know, like all wearing Birkenstocks. So it was a good market for like organic bedding products. Okay. So we have this retail shop, and we're running it, and I was miserable. And he was kind of miserable. And one day, like five years into it, we woke up, pun intended. And we were like, What are we doing? What are we doing? So I had to sit down with like this business mentor, and she's like, Okay, what parts of your business do you really like? And what parts do not like? And basically, I was like, Okay, I don't like working with people who don't like being in store. I don't like selling. I like all the marketing pieces and all the writing and like this stuff. So I did what you would do when you figure that out, I went and got my real estate license.

Vanessa: 15:53

I have one of those two, for two

Emily Aborn: 15:55

seconds, like, Okay, that was fun. I learned all about that. And didn't didn't employ that. And then I just kind of like, I started getting clients in this business before we had close the other one. And so I my husband's like, Well, I think you should probably go get a real you know, like a salary like we need like health benefits and a real job. And like, I was like, alright, well, let's just see if I can like build this thing up. If I get enough clients, then I'll I'll focus on this for a little while, then I'll look at real jobs. And like, it's just kind of blew up and exploded and I never went back. I was like, Oh darn, I have a business.

Vanessa: 16:33

That's amazing. So I've

Emily Aborn: 16:35

taken since then I've like you know, to be copywriting specific, like website versus just writing writing. You have to educate yourself a little bit. And also take courses and gather more information. It's not just as easy like, you know, like, you don't just slap words onto a website. It's kind of like a specific way that you move about a site specific ways that you make people feel and like the psychological and sociological junk that goes into that. So that's my story. It's not very sad. It's not like some eye opening epiphany. But once it happened, I was like, Okay, I've known this since I was like five years old. Why did no one tell me this? Why did no one say little Emily? Just go to school for writing or communications or journalism.

Vanessa: 17:23

You said you grew up in kind of a sheltered world? That's probably why Yeah, yeah, they didn't, they didn't want to grow up to be educated or whatever, who knows. But, and Vanessa brings it down to the depressing side again. It Like It kind of reminds me of like, what I used to run a manufacturing company. And then I made the natural pivot to real estate photography. After being an Uber driver, and I worked for a color car dealership for about four hours. And I deliver food and shit for a while. And I also got my real estate license and that was a waste of time and money.

Emily Aborn: 18:03

Yeah, so but I mean fun to learn about now, you know, like what an easement is, you know, you know, if you cross over your neighbor's yard and the Certain Way It's fine or not fine. Fasting, how do you order the water?

Vanessa: 18:17

Yeah, it did. I was my photography business. Because I primarily do real estate photography. So what I you may love or hate this, but I wrote my first like, big blog for my website, and I was teaching people that one of the number one things I've run into as a real estate photographer are sellers that just, they don't know what to do when it comes to getting their house ready because there's so much to think about, and they're already super stressed. So I have been sending around just like little PDF to my clients to send to their customers, but I'm like, You know what, I think it's time to actually put all this down. So I did a pretty long blog post, opened it with a Cliff's Notes, and then took a deep dive into how to get your house prepped. But for curiosity sake, I did a... sorry my tooth feels weird.

Emily Aborn: 19:17

Just one tooth?

Vanessa: 19:18

Just one tooth. Yeah, here.

Emily Aborn: 19:20

That's funny that you can feel your tooth!

Vanessa: 19:23

It must be an autistic thing. I don't know. And I'm pretty even just Oh, sorry. Oh Grammarly. So I'm like I'm curious to see like how it does and so I signed up for a free trial of the Grammarly pro because it's expensive so 30 bucks a month it is expensive. Like they were gonna charge me like for a yearly I'm like no don't do that go away cancel. But, so I typed it in Grammarly and kind of let it do like some proofreading and stuff like that. And that was actually fairly impressed because it kept my words as they were for the most part, but it helps with like, reducing redundancies and stuff like that was my problem was irate like I talk and I ramble a lot. So what are your thoughts on people using something like that for

Emily Aborn: 20:19

a No, I love it and I love I like Grammarly. I find that like, sometimes it will edit something, in a way when I'm like, wow, I actually said it better. But most of the time, I'm like you like I have redundancies too, you know, and I'll say like the same. And also the word like their words that we use, like just and that and things that we just sorry, how often do we say sorry for before like every single thing. It's like, just say you're going to be late. You don't need to say sorry, say yeah, are your patients like running five minutes late? Thanks for your patience. Not sorry, you know? So words like but that Grammarly, I don't think catches that but words like just and that like it will pull those out and be like, you don't really need that there. And I like that because we use too many words and we can be more concise when we you know, less is more as I say. So I like Grammarly and I think I don't use it as much. But I think Grammarly is also the one that gives you like a score of like how your effect is. So like, are you? How many times were you positive? How many times do you use, like heart centered words versus head centered words? Like, I love that. And my Google does that to me. And I'm like, Oh, look at all these three hobbies, happy email.

Vanessa: 21:42

I mean, it's helpful. Like, yeah, when I was typing, you can you can ask it to do certain tones, like creative professional conversation, all that kind of stuff or, and so it'll kind of stick to that. But it'll catch you if you start like writing something that like, this has a negative connotation to it when you don't mean it. So yeah. But I also seem to know someone that in the field, what they thought of it, I have a

Emily Aborn: 22:07

friend who will put emails and such through like either chatty putty or Gemini and be like, can you please make this sound like warmer and friendlier? Which I find funny because I always find AI to make me sound less warm and friendly. But I think it's where you're starting from, right? Like, it's like, whatever your baseline is. There. Yeah,

Vanessa: 22:28

yeah. If your baselines already I mean, because you're professional at this show, you know what you're doing. So if your baseline is already, like, it'd be fun to say, okay, take this happy, cheerful texts, and then make it depressing as fuck yeah, exactly.

Emily Aborn: 22:43

And yeah, so sometimes I might need to be like, turn down the exuberance to

Transcending Humanity: 22:47

slow lit up. Yeah,

Vanessa: 22:49

it's hard, though. Yeah. Especially when you're excited about something.

Emily Aborn: 22:52

I noticed that at a family function this weekend. I'm like, maybe I don't need to be so dialed up. Maybe they don't want that version.

Vanessa: 23:02

I mean, here's some something to talk about. Right? Yeah. So like, yeah, all right. She's

Emily Aborn: 23:08

gone. Let's talk about the wild.

Vanessa: 23:13

Sorry, I'm very burpee. It's okay. I saw on your site that you do brand blueprints? Yes. Let me tell you a brand blueprints are the best. I don't think a lot of people know what they are. Can you give the listeners a rundown of what a brand flute clip brand blueprint is?

Emily Aborn: 23:32

Okay. This is what a lot of people say to me. They'll be like, I have this business. I am like, I know who I serve and how I serve them. But I don't know what to say. And like, and I'm just like, we you mean on your website? Do you mean on your social media? Like I don't know what to say anywhere? So a bland, a brand blueprint? It's hard to party out? Pardon my I call it what do I call it a brand? I don't even remember I named it something fancy. And now I can't remember. Um, roadmap butter. I don't. Okay, my brain is we're like in the same universe today with the with the brains

Vanessa: 24:12

brand messaging blueprints which are websites Oh, okay.

Emily Aborn: 24:15

See there? Yeah, let's see. That's what I said. That's getting, um, but it like helps you get clear on like, your vision, your values, who you want to be talking to and then like, I like to go really specific on what those people are struggling with. So that you do have like 10 things now you can actually say to them, you know, and I also like include like people's bios and their backgrounds and like different ways to say your bio different things to share in your content. So it's really like it's basically like your roadmap, I guess for your business on like, what to share in different places. Sometimes people get them and I they can like implement it onto their website from what they get. Sometimes they need to like say Okay, now can you take this and implement it onto my website? Like, now this is a good foundation? Can you now add the cops to the website? So if they're really fun, they take me like, two hours of talking about the client and like really asking them like 20 million questions about who they are, why they started what they love, not just like, Who do you think you are? But who do other people in your life? Say that you are? Because they find that to be helpful? And you would be surprised how many people answer through the context of like what they do for someone. So like, you like, I'm helpful, I'm supportive, I'm loyal. And I'm like, No, who are you? Like, that's what you do for somebody else? So

Vanessa: 25:44

deer in the headlights look? Yeah. I love them for I actually learned about them for the first time, I worked in a marketing company for a little bit. And just being able to set consistency for the brand overall. So your color schemes, and then the blueprint can also lay lay out the hex codes and the what's the one for printing codes? I find it to be RGB? No, not the RGB. The I forget what it is Pantone, Pantone, thank you pantones. And then fonts, you can pick the fonts that you like to use? And like, even like, right down to the style of like photography, like do you want soft? Or do you want edgy? Or do you want more just like artsy stuff? And so it's fun to do that. And it's, it's nice for business owners or people that work for the business to to have to reference. So they're not just constantly double, double thinking like, yeah, okay, I have all this here. Like anyone that uses Canva might kind of understand this too, because Canva will start picking up your brand colors. And so you can kind of easily access those. So you

Emily Aborn: 27:07

said it perfectly. And I forgot about the visual meats, like I do the writing side of it, but the visual piece is exactly that. It's like a mood board for your brand. You're either whether it's a coffee mood board or a visual mood board, like it's, and I feel like we could all do this. Like, even if we don't have witnesses, it would be so fun to do. Like, what's my personal kind of like vibe in this world? You know, so it's a reflection of who you are. And it's kind of like your filter for what you say yes. To what you say no to awesome. Really awesome.

Vanessa: 27:40

It really is. It really helps you stay consistent. Yeah.

Emily Aborn: 27:45

You said, yeah, that word is like my favorite word. Yeah. US neurodivergent

Vanessa: 27:50

people. I don't know if you are, but I certainly have consistency. It's like both something we live by, and that we can never stick to. So. Okay, so

Emily Aborn: 27:59

I have a fun thing. Because the word consistency. I use a lot. But I think that people miss, they confuse consistency with frequency. So like, consistency for me isn't like I have to show up every day, the same exact way. It just means I have to show up. Like when I said I wanted to. So like, I just want to stay true to my own word. Basically, some days that's showing up 10% Right. Some days that's showing up like 5%. But it's really just like, promising myself like, even if I don't want to do it. I'm gonna stay consistent. But it doesn't mean every day doesn't mean every week. It doesn't mean every month it doesn't mean it can mean whatever you want it to mean for you. To your point of neurodiverse I have no idea. I'm just I don't know. I'm just a sometimes Yeah, yeah, that is a weirdo. living my life.

Vanessa: 28:53

I mean, we're just good. Yeah, I don't know what normal is. But

Emily Aborn: 28:58

there is gonna be Yeah, no, no, there's got to be a normal but I don't think it'd be enjoyable at all. I can't Yeah,

Vanessa: 29:04

yeah. Yeah. You have to wonder because there has to be a normal. Yes. And so there's one person in the world somewhere out there. That is completely normal. Well, yeah, combined everything which is kind of weird to think about.

Emily Aborn: 29:19

Imagine this. It'd be like so boring. I know. There was a movie I don't remember because I don't know pop culture. But there was a movie about cut like, where the world was like all black and white. And then they started to see color on the TV. What was that movie? Like the first one?

Vanessa: 29:35

Yeah, I know what you're talking about something shale in Holland it? Yeah, yeah. Pleasantville? Yeah,

Emily Aborn: 29:43

that's what it would be like is like the black and white in Pleasantville.

Vanessa: 29:47

Yeah, definitely haven't thought about that movie in a hot minute. Memories good to have on the team.

Transcending Humanity: 29:55

I never would have thought that. That's the thing. Like

Vanessa: 29:57

sometimes my brain will just bring something up. like that, in other times, nothing like Nothing

Emily Aborn: 30:04

gets me as I'm like, why did you choose that fact? Like there's all this like actual relevant information that you need, like, why walked into a room, but then you choose some random memory. I'm like three years old to keep in there like, hello, let's prioritize.

Vanessa: 30:22

I know, I can tell you how many times I walked in the room like what am I doing here? Yeah. And lays over like, I had an episode a few episodes back where I talked about meeting a girl named Natalie nap. And just because I saw her in a movie, I'm like, How the fuck do I know her and I just fell into this rabbit hole and one of turning an episode about it. And it became friends. So

Transcending Humanity: 30:45

I love that. It's brains

Vanessa: 30:47

are weird. Brains are really weird. So moving on. Let's see. I asked you like some topics you'd like to cover. So tell me about your passion for relationship related relationship building. Also,

Emily Aborn: 31:09

if you don't mind me, we can talk about whatever you want. So feel, you know. Yeah. My passion for relationship building. I don't know. Oh, I was like the kid that. So my parents, I'm not gonna get into the whole backstory. But they had like books like on personality and like how to like, win friends and influence people like those kinds of books. Okay. And as soon as I could read, I was just constantly reading but I always wanted to read books, like I wasn't allowed to read. So I'd go read like their, like, their marriage books, and like, their personality books and psychology books and stuff. I loved that stuff. So I just like I think people is just something I've always been really, really curious in, like, what makes other people tick and stuff. But specific as as it relates to business. I mean, it goes to any part of life, right? But like, when we're doing us as an entrepreneur, it's really really lonely to be in on, like you, nobody said isn't a business owner can really understand like, when you're like, Yeah, I don't, I don't have that day off. They're like, wait, what? The Fourth of July? Why don't you have that day off? I'm like, because I have work to do. Like, I don't have days off. Yeah, like you do. But you choose them and you take them and you do other things on that, like, you're still doing things. It's all it's always in your brain. So anyway, it's it's a lonely journey. And it's a really great one. But I have just found in my own in my own entrepreneurial journey that like finding people that are like, either alongside me or ahead of me or like, even behind me, like and building those relationships. That's been the number one thing and a helping my business grow. But I also think, leaving me feeling fulfilled as a business owner, you know, and I think, I think a lot of times we approach like social media and marketing and all of this stuff is just like, put my message out there. And we forget that there's actually like people on the other side that we can be like, connecting with like, you and I have already started like a building a relationship. We we met in a group, we emailed separate, and like we follow each other on social media, we can comment back to each other stuff, like it's little tiny, simple things, but we get a sense of each other's humor, right? Like now No, if I hear something out in the world, it's gonna make me think of you, I might send you a meme about it, right? Like, it's like, I mean, I'm talking like digital right now. But like, these are all just like, really, really little simple things that help to build relationships. And I think the first place you just have to start if like that feels important to you is just a curiosity to know the person on the other side and like listen them figure out what what makes their brain tick, right? Like I love learning about your brain. I like when you tell, like the random workings of it. Like that's interesting to me. So just having like a general genuine, like curiosity and other people, you know, that is like, I don't know, a better way to say how do you build a relationship than that?

Vanessa: 34:13

That's a really, really good way of putting it and it's exceedingly important. And a lot of companies don't understand that. Like, good solid businesses usually are really good at establishing relationships. Because in the end, we are all people and we just crave some sort of human connection. Yeah, and if you start taking it and just making it super sterile and taking any personality and vitality out of it, what are you even doing? Yeah, well, so like with my clients, I try to, I try to create like friendships or friendships whatever, joke around and just to make the entire situation just more pleasant for everybody. But as I said, a lot of companies seem to forget about that and the importance of building relationships and communication. And we're not robots. You know, we humans, for some reason crave interaction with other humans. I don't get it. We are the thing. It is the way it is. Yeah. Well, you said you didn't like working with people. I'm the same way. It's like, especially when you're in like retail sales.

Emily Aborn: 35:25

i Yeah, let me clarify. I like working with the people I choose. Okay. So like, with my clients, and with like, even collaborations like this, like, we get to choose each other. It's like a mutual, it's like, it's like mutual trust, mutual respect. And then I say, like, mutual delight, like, I'm like, we're both excited. You know what I mean? So I do like working with people, when all three of those factors are involved. I don't like feeling like I'm in a fishbowl, and people are just like, oh, but look at the class. Yeah, exactly. Like your hands for me not working with people that's like, oh, and they just kind of like, you know, you don't know what you're gonna get, right? You're like, Okay, I like being more selective in who I work with. Because it's because of my values and my mission and like, what I really want to be doing in the world. So

Vanessa: 36:14

it's kind of a mirror of the queer community. Like instead of queer community, we say choose your own family, you make your own family, and your case of choosing your own clients say, but there are a lot of people I will work with. Like, people have a certain hardcore, political following. And I won't work with them for my safety and just I don't want to deal with their bullshit. Yeah, yeah. It makes finding clients hurt. But the ones that I do find the incredible people so and then you actually look forward to working with them again. Exactly like the adage the customer's always right. It's just complete bullshit. Absolute complete bullshit. I was I was listening to a podcast about that I forget which one like, since I joined feminist podcasters collective. Like, I've added all those shows to my apple podcasts. And so they like automatically start playing with everyone to listen to that show or not. So that popped up on something, I think, but it's true, because the customer is not always right. I got

Emily Aborn: 37:26

asked, I applied for a customer service job when I was like, 16 I had no business applying for a customer service job at 16. I worked at like a pizza shop. I was like, Okay, now let's try to get a corporate job. The one of the questions they asked me was, is the customer always right? And I'm like, Um, yes. They're like, wrong answer. But you always have to act like they're right. I was like, we even told me this was like a nuanced question.

Vanessa: 37:57

Yeah. Oh, I know what I heard on a YouTube channel that I listened to while I edit photos is called me and the fax service. Fun pansexual bone guy that just read stories off of Reddit? Oh, my God, that it's, I love it. But that was one of them. And like, there's one use raining story about one person whose job like, the owner had a sign up said the customer is not always right. And they stuck to that. No one should put up with abuse. Now, just like, just because you're a customer doesn't mean you're entitled. And you're not a customer until you've actually paid technically,

Emily Aborn: 38:39

I think that's something I've had to learn in my business is like how to set boundaries, like both with my time with money with expectations, like just like really setting clear boundaries, clear expectations and being okay, with being like, yeah, you trampled this, like, we're, we're not going to right, we're not going collaboratively here. Right? Like, now we need to come back. So, um, and I think most of the time when you do it with kindness, like people are gracious, and they're not like, I've never had had one lady argue with me. That's it

Vanessa: 39:15

never seen ever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, boundaries, like bringing that bringing that up. It's actually very important. We've really strayed from copywriting but whatever. That's okay. Where's your life advice for people as Yeah, well listen to show maybe, I don't know. But boundaries are so important in business too. Like I ran into it yesterday. I fallen into a habit of like a number of houses I photographed lately been really cool. And I price my photography and packages like 20 photos, 30 photos, whatever. But I keep finding myself like taking a bunch extra. And I still want to edit them all. So but then I don't feel right charging. For all this extra for Notice that I did. So like last night I was, you know, there's a couple days ago, I went up to like 20 More photos than what I was charging for. And I got so fucking burned out. And there's no reason for me to be doing it. It's just I feel like I have to in order to capture everything. But if a client's willing to pay for more, then it's finally nice to just start charging for it. But that's a boundary. And my northern girlfriend, I have an order girlfriend, a southern girlfriend for people wondering Gordon girlfriend Silikal. Southern is, well, Jenny, she's on the show. Anyways, last night, she's like, You need to set boundaries just for your mental health, because I was so burnt out on editing the past couple days, I was just draining as usually 30 photos will take me about an hour and a half to edit. And I was like six hours and like, I was hyper focused on everything. And it's because as you said, like, if you don't set boundaries, then you start

Emily Aborn: 41:06

resenting, yeah, resenting

Vanessa: 41:09

and just losing your way. So

Emily Aborn: 41:13

it's and people will treat, like, if you let them trample them, they're going to trample them. And often they don't, they don't even do it intentionally, I don't think are maliciously they just like, if I give somebody an open gate, they're gonna throw it right. Yeah, I had some ideas for you. So on, like three things you could do to put a boundary in place with that. One is, you could send them the, you know, just just edit, like a certain number, however many you promised them. And then say, I actually ended up taking like, about 30 More, and I would, you know, I can send you those as well, for X amount more. The other thing you could do is to in, you could have a bigger package, right? So like, create another tier where there's more photos, and then they get those and I have one of those two. Okay, good. And then the third thing is like to save those pictures and keep them for yourself, and use them for your own social media, your own marketing your own motion. Those are yours, like your mind.

Vanessa: 42:14

Yeah, that's another thing for people to remember when you create things like when you create when other photographers, you own those photos, the people that you take the photos for, don't own them, you do. They're renting them from you. And be sure you make that clear. I haven't read on my invoice. All properties remain an opera off offer remain the property of Vanessa Joy. By paying for this invoice. You're getting access to use him for marketing.

Emily Aborn: 42:43

I would be curious to see what other copywriters do I specifically tell them, I don't own this because because I don't want to be. First of all, I pray for like a lot of the same kind of client like a ton of interior designers. And I would never want them to think I like copied and pasted from somebody else. But second of all, I want them to note like now it's yours and you get to do what you want with it. I can I do keep a copy because I'm organized. For you know what people do to their files sometimes. But yeah, I wouldn't be so curious. Like, what the like, it's fascinating to me, because I didn't know that about photographers that you own the pictures. So I just be so interested to know like what other industries do around that guy? Like podcast? Producers? Do they keep the pot? Is it theirs? Or is it the podcasters so fascinating. Like these questions and more will not be

Vanessa: 43:40

like producers as in like, the software we're doing it on like Riverside or to person. So like, let's

Emily Aborn: 43:47

say you had a producer like you had like somebody edit it and do all the cut and like add the music and whatever, you know, whatever things they do, and release it like do they own the podcast? Or do you the podcaster on the podcast?

Vanessa: 44:03

I mean, that's a very good question. Like

Emily Aborn: 44:05

if anyone listening knows the answer, please. Phone in one 800 997

Vanessa: 44:13

For the one down the center one 800 Call att. Yeah, that's because that's actually something when this podcast first started. It was a collaborative effort between myself and a few other LinkedIn connections. And I wasn't even the one that named it. I can't remember. I can't remember if it was Tara or Liam that named after listening. Maybe they'll tell me. But like it started off as like a collaboration. I wasn't on every episode. I was doing the editing and stuff like that for it to production behind the scenes. But like we had, we had more hosts and every week was just it was completely different with different hosts and stuff, it wasn't like this format that it is now. And then people just started to kind of like lose interest in it. And I dropped with once every two weeks instead of every week, which I'm back to every week. And I'm like, we have a discord channel. And that's got really quiet. And like, I don't want the show to die. And by trying to keep it as a collaborative effort, getting everybody scheduled together, it's just a pain because everyone's professional during their own jobs in different time zones, different parts of the world, whatever. So I wound up just taking over the show. And now I consider this my show. But is it?

Emily Aborn: 45:43

I think it is, yeah, change of change of guards there.

Vanessa: 45:48

But there's like actual intellectual property with it, you

Emily Aborn: 45:51

actually brought up something really interesting, which I think that we think that like collaborating with other people is going to be easier. But I actually, I mean, I like to work alone. But I think that collaboration is the harder way to go. In a lot of cases, it's well worth it. Like it definitely like increases your efforts and increases your reach and you know, all of those wonderful benefits, but I think that is definitely something that people overlook is like it. And that's why it's important to choose a good, like a collaborator that like the values are the same as you they are as committed as you are right. Like they're as excited to show up as you because it takes a lot of energy to like, come together and do something together. So it does

Vanessa: 46:36

it really does. And that's yeah, now I have it set up. Where in our Discord, I'm just posting the cure art recording the sound because I used to like to try to Okay, well, when can you record we recording is always fine, then sometimes I'd show them no one, no one would be there. So now like, throughout July, I'd guess I view it guess last week is coming up. And so now I just have them scheduled. And I'm like, I can have one co host on each episode, if you'd like via co hosts just heart react this, and then I'll schedule it with you. But because you have to kind of keep it simple, stupid. Yeah. And it's fun to try to be collaborative and collaborative. That's a hard word to. And when you can do, it's great. But then you always have to remember that people are gonna get burnt out, people are gonna get bored, like life circumstances change. And that's perfectly fine. So, but if you have passion for something, and you can take ownership to it. Yeah.

Emily Aborn: 47:44

And I would say don't let a collaborators lack of interest or lack of energy, like, you know, if you are still interested in doing it and excited to do it, keep it going, you know. So yeah.

Vanessa: 47:57

It's fun to take some ownership to so like, during the show, I've taught myself video editing, I've taught myself about recording sound design, and more web design I've ever done it before. But yeah, you can just learn so much when you take on a project.

Emily Aborn: 48:13

That is one thing I'll say about entrepreneurship, like you learn a lot. It is a fast track education, not just about like the stuff you've just said, like website and Mark. I mean, you do have to learn to market like every business has to market themselves. So when people start businesses and become entrepreneurs, they're also signing up to be marketers, you know, and in some cases, web designers and like copywriters, like there's, you end up learning a lot. And I also think you end up learning, like a lot about yourself, like, I have never come up against, like my own inner demons, for lack of a better word, like the blocks that that are really like, wow, that is not until I was a business owner, you know, like, it just increases your self awareness. I think so much like, you have to overcome stuff, or it's going to impact your revenue and your finances and maybe the roof over your head. Who knows. So

Vanessa: 49:11

that's one of the main things I have the place wise for people starting a business is Don't quit your day job at first.

Emily Aborn: 49:18

Oh my god, thank

Vanessa: 49:19

you learn what you're doing first. Yeah. Because it's hard. I had a foot in the door and doing it because I ran. I ran a small business for a long time. I didn't own it, but I essentially owned it without having ownership. And so I know you've had experience doing it before too. So you know, and but still, there's unexpected things like in my case, when I came out, my business died completely. And so suddenly I could have expected so all my income died and I still haven't it's been three years and I still haven't gotten it back. But so you have to be ready for all of those just what ifs, but the rewarding side of it is fucking amazing. You can be your own boss, if you want to. Suddenly They just fuck off halfway through the day and go get a margarita, you can do it, you know? Something be said for that. Wow, it's been 15 minutes. So we should probably start to get to the wrap up. So when people hire you, like, do you have like, like a scope or range of scopes that you take on for projects? Do you do like individual pages on a website all the way up to like creating an entire everything or how's it work?

Emily Aborn: 50:30

Yeah, I try not to do individual pages because of your word before cohesion, I want everything to sound the same and feel the same. Sometimes past clients will come get one page like added on which I love doing that, because like, we've already felt that but um, and I just did this awesome. One page website, like it's just a one page, but it says everything for this New Jersey meatball company. Like it was so much fun. As she pronounces it meatballs. It was very fun. So, but usually like the websites, we do like three to five pages, and then I have some web designers that will actually we'll do like 1015 Page websites, because they're doing portfolio pages for realtors or interior designers, which is super fun. I love those because then we get like so much content, you know, not just website copy, but also like stuff they can use on social. And then from there, I do lots of like strategy sessions. So like helping people figure out what to say on social media or figure out what to say in like, with somebody who will just sit and like workshop something together. And then the brand messaging guides, and I have like little services here and there. Like if somebody needs a bio, you know, or always, always take on something special if it's the right person, like I had this local builder, and he can ask me to do anything he wants to do. And I'm like, yes, because he's he's a great person, you know, like, it's all about like him as a person. But like, some people asked me to do things in like, oh, I don't do that. Like, hey, if I'd like drive to somebody's like newly built palace and be like, I am the photographer, can we just do anything?

Vanessa: 52:18

When you find people like that happening in your life, hold on to them, because that's huge. Yeah.

Emily Aborn: 52:24

Most of the time, it's like, people do like a website, plus build in whatever other Life Pieces they're working on, you know. So I love when somebody like, you know, to your point before of like, Don't quit your day job. I also think like when you're starting a business, you've often don't even know what you don't know yet. Like, you don't even know your message you don't know, you're not clear on everything. So like, I always say like, let's start small. And then we can always like build, we can always grow, we can always change. But like when people are just like all in at the very beginning. I'm like, Oh my God, you're gonna change so many things in like, two years. Yeah.

Vanessa: 53:03

And you can do them yourself really easily doing that. Like, as you said, start slow. And learn as you go. When you said you don't know what you don't know, that is like, if anything sums up small business ownership. Now, in a nutshell, it's that phrase.

Emily Aborn: 53:23

I'm doing a podcast on the things I wish I knew before I started a business they own. I think it's two weeks from now. But even after doing the episode, I was like, damn it, there were like so many things that I wanted to include, because I've made a lot of mistakes where I just like jump into something and like Uber like that habit. Like I just go for it and then find out the hard way that I hate it. And so I kind of did that with this pod, not I don't hate the podcast, I just jumped into it. And then I was like, Oh my God, there's like 20 more million things I would have added so yeah, it's our it's our pen,

Vanessa: 53:57

but it's so hard to keep it on. Fourth property. You're being you're talking right now you're not getting paid to write when the other sorry. It's just like that's the end because flight going crazy. So like people want to hire you to price like by the hour by the package by service.

Emily Aborn: 54:16

Yeah, everything is by the package. Unless it's like a very, you know, unless it's a service that like fits into a nice tidy little box, which I only have a couple of so those are like will tune ups things and then the brand messaging guide. But yeah, most things are by project. And I love that. And I would encourage like you know, it's different industries need to price themselves in different ways. But it really really works with me because it's an advantage to the client where like they're getting my best work at my most excited and creative level. And I'm also being like compensated for what I'm doing so

Vanessa: 54:55

yeah, and they don't have to worry about unexpected bill, that kind of thing. Right?

Emily Aborn: 54:59

Exactly. And I know like I can take on this many projects at a time so I don't like overbooked myself and just go no, you know, like, I don't know how much money I'm getting this month. So I have to like schedule 10 different clients, you know, it's very like, Okay, I've three. And that's it. Yeah,

Vanessa: 55:16

I just want the scariest parts of having your own business is never knowing where your next paycheck is coming from right now, you know. So people, I'm going to give you a chance to the end of the episode to like plug all your stuff, but I would highly suggest anybody that has their own company that started quickly. Look at Emily's brand messaging blueprints, brand blueprints. Those really help. And especially if you can establish you can always edit them in the future too. But if you can establish yourself and make yourself remember by thinks of symbols, colors, and word choices how you use stuff like that. Just themes. People remember you for that. So I think we've talked in previous episodes when you think what company do you think of when you think of the color pink? Like Barbie? Yeah, Barbie or T Mobile or like Victoria's Secret or something? Yeah, so but they can like, pop it in your head. So I don't have stumps me or what's going on? Anyways. So I want to I told you about this head time. I'm gonna start try something new. Oh, yeah, I can't wait and of episodes. I was like, my co host, Jess. They always do when when they're hosting. They always do an icebreaker. I'm like, Well, what can I do I my brain isn't going to be able to figure out nice Praeger. I just look to my left and I have a box of cards against humanity over there. That'd be fine. So I opened it up and found all the black cards and at the end, so what we want what I'm thinking we do is we each get a card. Yep. And I guess I'm just kind of stealing this from Nikki that that did last sorry, Nikki, with your with your cards at the end. But it's good. I didn't make

Transcending Humanity: 57:18

you love that. Yeah, it's a compliment. It's flattery.

Vanessa: 57:22

She'll be on the show in a few weeks.

Emily Aborn: 57:24

I think you should go first and show me now it's done. I don't even

Vanessa: 57:28

know how it's done. This is this is going to be the first time but yeah. So what we're going to do is we're going to pick cards for me. I'm just going to just grab one at random. I'm not going to look at it. I'm just gonna set it down. And how I was seen for like you like here's the deck. Yeah. And just tell me like 25% 50% So

Emily Aborn: 57:50

can you see the crack on the top? The crack. Oh, it moved now Oh, yeah. No, I can see a nice crack. That first crack is yeah, this one. Yeah, I might go to the next crack. But that's okay. It doesn't matter. The next crack see that? Yeah, that's right. She that was the one I had my eye on. Yo. Okay.

Vanessa: 58:13

Now, do you want the card on the bottom or the top?

Emily Aborn: 58:16

Oh my god. That's a that's a big question. Okay. Bottom

Vanessa: 58:22

we're learning some stuff about Yeah.

Emily Aborn: 58:27

I think I learned what uh, this is my here's my sheltered secret. I think I learned what a bottom was from cards of humanity cards from here. Educational friends, and I was like, wow, yep. First time here. Everything.

Vanessa: 58:42

I didn't really know what it was until fairly recently, too. So. Okay. My card your card. Okay. You want me to go first? Yeah. So what we're going to do is we have to come up with something we're going to use the prompt on the back of the card and then come up with a response to it select response like what you would pick a white card from parents consuming it for Okay, and it can be anywhere from G rated all the way up to the most filthy shit you can think of. Okay,

Emily Aborn: 59:12

so I can't then I can't share the episode with my mom if it's filthy

Vanessa: 59:17

as you can choose which I don't I don't talk to my mom she's a she's a See you next Thursday. But so Okay, mine is I am going under cleanse this week nothing but kale juice and wonder if it's going to reverse this. Oh

Emily Aborn: 59:37

my god that it's Yeah, it did. It did

Vanessa: 59:41

nothing but kill juice and I just got a good one. So when I ran that manufacturing company, there was a guy that would like drink a bottle of like Lipton iced tea and then he would use it as both a spittoon and an ashtray. So my cleanse is nothing but kale juice and the whatever nasty shit that was in the bottom of that bottle mix of chewing tobacco and cigarette butts. And a little you inflict that upon yourself. It popped into my head you could use Milky Way's What's the fun? Yeah,

Emily Aborn: 1:00:32

no I teasing you know this teasing. Okay, I love your answer. That's awesome. We discussed today.

Vanessa: 1:00:39

Did it? Okay, you ready for yours? Yes. All right. I got 99 problems, but blink eight one

Emily Aborn: 1:00:51

I'm a kale juice cleanse. Harry here God that's a very good one full circle. like kale juice cleanse ain't my sister Noah and I were just talking about this like we're done with that crap.

Transcending Humanity: 1:01:08

There's no real plane any of it. Yeah. levitated and like sound our you know, inner guidance.

Vanessa: 1:01:16

If you want to be healthy, just don't eat like shit. Eggs not eat less calories. So

Emily Aborn: 1:01:22

I do love kale though. And kale chips for the record for all the listeners kale.

Vanessa: 1:01:27

Okay, well, if you want to get Emily gift Sinco you're gonna regret that, like someone's gonna listen to this and send like a pallet full of something. Like what the fuck is this and your husband's gonna be like, I've heard of stalkers, but like people sending kill. Welcome to welcome to Trump's America. Okay,

Emily Aborn: 1:01:49

I think it's actually pronounced Merica just Mario.

Vanessa: 1:01:52

just strictly a direct Fuck yeah. With the the c part is actually three K's. Yeah, I'm not very patriotic that anyone who follows my social media. Today, I'm on my face. And I'm threads but on the street, I live on the went through and planted these big, like, of American flags in everyone's front yard. And they've served in a various military branch, they get that one. But I'm like, what the star spangled bullshit says like a lot of us in the trans community, the American flag is actually very traumatic to see when I was driving down the street just being surrounded by these things is like spring surrounded by hate, which sucks. That should not be we should not have to be afraid of the flag of the country that we live in.

Emily Aborn: 1:02:41

Okay, Vanessa, if I send you a thank you card, which I'm going to I'm going to ask them for a different stamp. Because don't I get an I have all these freedom stamps and I'm really annoyed by them. Like I'm like, I don't want the like, I feel weird sending them to people. I'm like, I know. I hope this is okay.

Vanessa: 1:03:02

I wish there would be a more creative stamp for freedom stamps. Yeah,

Emily Aborn: 1:03:05

yeah, but I'm getting a special you're gonna get a special stamp.

Vanessa: 1:03:10

Mostly kill

Emily Aborn: 1:03:12

45 cents or whatever.

Vanessa: 1:03:13

It's I think it's 60 cents. Oh, she first stamp. Yeah, don't

Emily Aborn: 1:03:17

even doing this is why we raise our prices. We need to raise their price.

Vanessa: 1:03:22

I know. All right. So this.

Emily Aborn: 1:03:26

This was fires. Do you want to know should we do that? I'm gonna do that. Should we get one more card? Waltzing

Vanessa: 1:03:31

through the wrap up? Do you want to do another card?

Emily Aborn: 1:03:33

I don't know. What's the wrap up? Is that another thing? It's

Vanessa: 1:03:37

working in the summer stuff and tell people where to find you and shit like that. Oh,

Emily Aborn: 1:03:41

okay. Then we should do one more card. Just wonder card. Yeah, I'll let you choose both of them. This time you chose you. I liked your choice better than mine.

Vanessa: 1:03:48

So you think this is a game worth doing a future episode? Yes.

Emily Aborn: 1:03:51

It's so Okay, cool. It puts people on the spot gives them just enough like you know, yeah,

Vanessa: 1:03:56

nuff stuff. Yeah. Okay, so wanchain Right. Yeah. Two coats. Do you want my right or left?

Emily Aborn: 1:04:06

Right, right.

Vanessa: 1:04:07

Okay. Your card. Blank. High five, bro

Emily Aborn: 1:04:16

that's a hard one sending humanity high five, bro.

Vanessa: 1:04:20

Get something on your nose girl. You made obviously here to stop it. Oh,

Emily Aborn: 1:04:27

wow. The time? Yeah,

Vanessa: 1:04:29

I know. I look over there like, and for mine. What are my parents hiding from me? And I've always thought like for the longest time that one of them isn't my real parents. So I mean, I look like both of them. But whose child Am I

Emily Aborn: 1:04:54

get yourself on? 23 and me Are you okay? Like

Vanessa: 1:04:59

I found that After my mother's side on there, and then the shit ton of like second cousins I've never heard of, and no one on my dad's side, but as looked like my dad, like from the profiles, so, but I will click my mom from the front.

Emily Aborn: 1:05:12

Oh, you know what you can do your dad, would he take a paternity test? And I was gonna say excuse me this is an incentive to not shame because he's passed on so

Vanessa: 1:05:21

it's not insensitive. I tell people about sulfur specsheet stuff all the time. So, okay,

Emily Aborn: 1:05:26

so that's not the way we're gonna find out. You'll maybe it'll, you know, you'll you'll you get relatives closer to you on 23andme It just takes time sometimes. Like, that's how I found my dad, honestly. Um, yeah.

Vanessa: 1:05:44

I did an Ancestry DNA. I want to fish it. No,

Emily Aborn: 1:05:49

they do not say you actually have some people take some people are crazy like me and take all the tests. But then some people only take ancestry. Some people only take 23 me so you actually end up with like different people in different places. Like my cousins on ancestry? Not at 23andme for example.

Vanessa: 1:06:06

Oh, maybe I'll do 23andme then. Yeah, do you? See?

Emily Aborn: 1:06:11

Gotta put that DNA out there. Yeah, I need to get your hands of other Yeah, that's that's our takeaway for today. There's

Vanessa: 1:06:20

no privacy left in this world. So

Emily Aborn: 1:06:22

I agree. That's why I went for it.

Vanessa: 1:06:27

So some final thoughts. Do you have anything final thing before you start promoting your shit? Like, final thing to get out there

Emily Aborn: 1:06:37

is just that this was fun. And this was a great example of like, what collaboration can look like, you know, we each bring something to the table. And also the person listening hopefully got something enjoyable. Hopefully. Hopefully you didn't, didn't

Vanessa: 1:06:50

you? Oh, they did? Whether or not they did. And if you did, subscribe to the Patreon Yes. patreon.com/transferring. Humanity and Emily, you have one tear, right? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. We have a podcast at least. Yeah. Well, then let's do your Plex. Like, where can they find you? How do they hire you? Or whatever. Since

Emily Aborn: 1:07:10

you're already listening to a podcast, you can find content with character on any of the podcast platforms that you listen to as well as YouTube? I just put it on YouTube. Yeah, me. I'd say the easiest way to like find everything and like what links are specific do is just Emily a born.com. And that's like acorn with a beat. And that's it.

Vanessa: 1:07:33

That's That's easy. That's really easy. God, I'm the

Emily Aborn: 1:07:36

only Emily acorn. really true. It's amazing. Yeah.

Vanessa: 1:07:42

What are the odds of that?

Emily Aborn: 1:07:44

Although, yes. And my sister in law stole my old name. Actually. Her name is Emily. And she took my name. So I handed that off. Oh,

Vanessa: 1:07:52

just passing it on. Yeah. Got it turns out there's a big photographer out there named Vanessa Joy. I didn't know that when like Joy. Joy isn't the surname that I would have chosen but I needed to for legal reasons. But Vanessa's name I just always wanted. But then it turns out there's another big photographer named Vanessa Joy. So I imagine she had some confusing messages. It seems

Emily Aborn: 1:08:19

like a common or you know, Joy. This seems like something I would combine with Vanessa but I like it personally. It makes me it makes me feel happy. And it matches your purple vibe like super well. So

Vanessa: 1:08:31

I definitely went full purple today. Yeah, so I had to reapply some of it because I had a photo cake before this and I sweat it all off even was setting spray. Well, this was fun. This was very educational. Like it's kind of one two punch with you. And then last week with Gianna in her branding and photography. So you too should leave. Yeah, she's the anti corporate brand photographer to see have a podcast. No, she doesn't. But she should

Emily Aborn: 1:09:05

all look her up. Yeah.

Vanessa: 1:09:09

Yeah, if you follow me on Instagram, she actually just tagged me in a real today. She was on the show last week. But the to you between the visual and the writing. You might be able to make some magic happen match made in heaven. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Yeah, this was fun. And God for everyone else listening next week. I have Chloe Milligan I think it's well sorry, Chloe. If you listen to this, I should know your name by now. Yeah, Clary Milligan is going to be our guest and I have a guest host Kate rattle from legal burnouts is going to be guest hosting. And we're going to be talking to Chloe about being usually so you know, Emily, this show. I'm hardcore atheist. A lot of our hosts So fairly anti religious as well. But I know that we have to have some listeners of faith be at one faith or another. And so Chloe is a strong Christian left his Christian and she happens to be trans too. So we're gonna be talking about the burnout and the ups and downs of life that she feels, which should be a pretty interesting conversation. So

Emily Aborn: 1:10:20

I really want to listen. Yeah,

Vanessa: 1:10:21

I'm excited for that one. I'm really excited for that one. So leftist,

Emily Aborn: 1:10:26

trans Christian. Yes, I want to listen. Yeah,

Vanessa: 1:10:28

it's something you don't hear of much. Like, I've been following her for a while. And I'm like, boy, that can't be easy. So I'm curious to learn more about her.

Emily Aborn: 1:10:40

But maybe you could get listener questions beforehand and like, see if anybody has anything they want you to ask if you felt comfortable with that, not like telling you what to do with your show. I just have a question for her.

Vanessa: 1:10:53

Oh, well, if you have a question for her, just ask her through me.

Emily Aborn: 1:10:56

Okay. I'll ask it are there so that we can keep them we can keep them in mystery.

Vanessa: 1:11:01

There you go. All right. I will see you all next week. And transcending humanity.

Emily Aborn: 1:11:08

And toodles bye. Thank you. Where is the

Vanessa: 1:11:13

end? Oh, there it is.