Hire Power: Updates on Dermatology NP and PA Compensation

Data show that compensation for dermatology NPs and PAs is on the rise, according to Michelle Sullentrup, CEO and Founder of MyDermRecruiter. In this episode of the Dermalorian™ podcast, she shares insights on compensation and hiring trends. Plus, get an update on the Physician Associate title now enacted in Oregan law.

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Transcript

Transcript provided as a courtesy only. It has not been edited/reviewed for accuracy.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Dermalorian Podcast from the Dermatology Education Foundation. In this episode, we'll get an update on the first state in the US to adopt the physician associate title into law. But first, some good news for dermatology NPs and PAs. Compensation appears to be on the rise. We spoke with Michelle Sullentrup, founder and CEO of myDermRecruiter, the largest dermatology recruitment firm in the US, currently representing more than 1000 opportunities across the country. Michelle says she founded myDermRecruiter to bridge the gap between dermatologists, dermatology NPs and PAs, and employers who are seeking top-notch professional talent. This is the first of a two-part conversation with Michelle.

Michelle Sullentrup:

The thing that we've been doing at myDermRecruiter is we've really been focused on data when it comes to NP, NPA dermatology jobs, what their compensation really has been over the last year or two years, and then what the opportunities are that are available out there for them because those are the two areas people really want to focus on, right? Where can I go, what's available, and how much money am I going to make? We know that that's important to the candidates that are coming to us looking for opportunities. But what we've really focused on over the last five years is really gathering data because data gives us real numbers, the real ability to be experts with our candidates and tell them what's happening in the market.

I just reviewed today, we actually have data on our last 57 hires I was looking at today. And to give you some very broad numbers on that, we looked at our last 57 hires. And remember, these are in all company verticals. If you think about private practice, physician-owned groups, then, private equity-owned or managed groups. And then also multi-specialty groups are in here. We don't have as many of those, but we do have some of those sprinkled throughout this cut of data that I have for these last 57 hires that we did. These jobs are across 17 state. That's a good number to give us some real strong data.

The thing that came off the most interesting for me is that on this average of 56 jobs across 17 states, the average compensation, and we're talking about base salaries only on this, was 145,981 on base salaries. The average nationally has gone up to 145,000 plus on the base salary, which is exciting. We used to say two years ago, the base salaries are between 90 and 120. That just two years ago has gone up tremendously. I'm happy that we're keeping up with inflation and the cost of what's happening in the US as far as our cost of living goes. But I was glad to see that because that was quite a jump from those 90 to 120.

The other interesting thing is that the highest base that we saw out of the last 57 jobs that we've hired here at myDermRecruiter across these 17 states was 198,000 on a base salary. Pretty good, especially when you compare it to what I just said, which was it used to say 90 to 120. The lowest was 100,000. Believe me, there are probably sprinkled in this 57 data, a couple part-time jobs. And that's what I'm guessing, frankly, is that one of those was a part-time.

But even narrowing down that data more for candidates who are coming to us, I looked at our last 10 hires. Interestingly enough, our last 10 hires, when I literally looked at them, they were all in Arizona, California, and Colorado. It was kind of our out west clients out there. But the nice thing is they were a mix of private practice, private equity, multi-specialty group all within that last 10 hires. I kind of find it interesting these we're all in the west because the west kind of leads the way a little bit when it comes to compensation. We see higher stuff out there first, typically. So, this is a real nice magnification of what's going on nationally. On these jobs, what we've seen, I looked at the average on these last 10 jobs, and the lowest base salary on this was 130,000 base. They were getting 30% of collections, though. The lowest on this as far as percentage of collections bonus, the lowest one I saw on here was 25%, and the highest was 38%. That 38% came in, these last 10 hires that we did. It's very interesting how much this has gone up.

I'm looking at some of these details just to give you an idea about this as well. In Arizona, $130,000 base, 30% of collections on anything over 600,000, that she gets a 30%. But she gets an additional kicker, they're calling them now. You get an additional $5,000 bonus on anything over the first 600 and anything over the 800 during that same year. So, if you're a big biller and you're billing 850 a year, they're getting an extra $10,000 on top of that. Plus they're getting that 30% of collections. Her threshold was a little bit higher. It looks like that one was 400,000, so it was a little bit higher.

We tend to tell people, candidates, when they're looking at the threshold, it really is dependent on that base salary that they're getting guaranteed, but also the whole package. If you're in a practice that the average NPPA there now is only collecting 500,000 annually or only collecting 650 annually, you really got to base your numbers on that. You've got to know that. Make sure as an NP or PA in the job market that when they're giving these things to you like these offers and they're saying, "We're going to give you $175,000 base," or, "We're going to give you 130,000 base, but we're then going to give you 28% of anything up to this number or over this number," that up to and over number is what you really have to pay attention to. You want to know what your offer is, and then you want to know what the average of the NPs and PAs in the practice are already doing because that's key. If they're all billing 800,000 a year, yeah, that looks like a great offer. But if they're all billing less than 600 a year, you can't compare apples to apples if you're looking at a different offer where they're, on average, billing more.

You've got to ask those questions that take, I always call take five seconds of courage to say. "Can you share with me the average collections of your last two NPs or PAs or your top producing and your lowest producing NP or PA?" Because how can you really look at what is possible for you to make without that number? Again, an offer moving out of the west that we looked at that was in South Carolina private practice. They're giving like 175. Actually, we had three people placed there. They're giving 175 to 198,000 on a base salary, which is higher. That's our high end, right, based on the numbers we've looked at. And then they move them to a straight 25% of collections after an $800,000 threshold. Or if they move them straight to 25 or 30% of collections in their second year with no base, boy, you better know what the average is of those people making because the first year might be great, but that second year, if the MPs and PAs in that practice are only billing a certain number, you might be getting a big pay cut that second year.

That's what we don't want to happen. When you work with us, when you work with myDermRecruiter, we obviously know that stuff. We've asked that stuff ahead for you. We know the average of collections as far as what those MPs and PAs are doing in there because we're really digging into that info. But if you're on your own and you're comparing apples to apples on a couple offers, boy, that's a nugget that you have to take home. You've got to make sure that you know what that average collections of that MP or PA that's there before you or there now is making so that you can really get an estimate of what you are actually going to make in your first or second year there.

The other thing that we saw that was interesting, too, is very few of these jobs have sign-on bonuses or relocation at all. We place, obviously, a lot of doctors, too. Doctors tend to move across the state or across the country for jobs. Our MPs and PAs like to stay more regional. We've seen that some do. We have relocated some. And if we are seeing that one of our candidates is going to get relocated, we are pushing hard for them to get some type of relocation bonus or help or assistance with making that move. But lots and lots of our candidates, most of them, I would say, are looking regionally in an area they're already living in or they're getting ready to move to.

A lot of the MPs and PAs are looking to make a move within 30 miles. But maybe they got to get out of a noncompete area, or they have to be a little further. That is really the majority of what happens with us. They'll call us and say, "Hey, listen. I'm in Phoenix. I have to get out of a 10-mile radius, so these are the areas I'm targeting."

As myDermRecruiter, we're able to say, "Okay, we have these six practices we know in those areas." But if you're on your own, you've really got to take a look and see how many practices are in the area that you're targeting because then it can become a little bit more competitive. You have a couple practices in the same areas. They all have the same noncompetes, typically, of up to a 10-mile radius. I definitely want to tell people, "Please don't sign noncompetes that are over a 10-mile radius." I'm going to put that little nugget in there. But also, you guys then start finding yourselves looking in the same areas, and so it can become a little more competitive. There may be some research that you really need to do upfront.

If I'm an MP or PA, I'm living in Phoenix and working in Phoenix now, as an example, and I want to make a move, I'm going to first target out where I'm willing to drive to. Where am I willing to drive to work every day? How far am I willing to go? And I'm going to look at it in a radius area. A lot of people are like, "Well, I live on the north side, so I only want to look at north." Well, your noncompete might dictate you have to look at the south side, or you have to look at the east or western side. You have to be cognizant of that. Be a little open-minded when you're looking at the areas that you're targeting.

Then secondarily go, "Okay, what practices are in those areas? Let's look at that. Which of them are similar to the practice I'm already in that maybe I'm not that happy with? Which ones have I heard great things about or have heard okay things about right?" Kind of narrow those down and target that. There may be that you don't see any openings posted for them. There's no opportunities available.

I tell people that a lot as far as our business goes, because with myDermRecruiter, we're often given opportunities that they don't want to advertise because they only want our candidates who have been completely screened and fleshed out. There are a lot of times a candidate will come to us and go, "I've been looking on my own and I can't find any openings," or, "I'm only finding openings on the practices that are eh."

So, I'll say, "Yeah, let us tell you what we have available."

And they're like, "Wow, I didn't even know that group was hiring."

It's like, "Well, yeah. They're only using us exclusively to hire in that area."

Or it may be that to us they will say, "We're not advertising, but if you come across somebody fantastic, let us know about them." That happens a ton.

Obviously, we want you to work with us, but when you're on your own and you're looking at these things, the job boards obviously are where a lot of people go first, seeing what's available, what's out there. But I'm going to encourage you guys, too, to pick up the phone. I think that it's a lost art in this day and time, to pick up the phone and target the practices you actually want to work for. If you know there's two great practices, they're not advertising and they're not saying they're hiring, pick up the phone, call those groups and say, "Can I please speak with the person in charge of hiring your providers?" Do not ask the receptionist, "Are you guys hiring any MPs or PAs that you know about?" Because I guarantee you that those conversations have not trickled down to her right at that moment, probably.

She may not know. She may be like, "Oh, no, we're full. Our office can't take any more people. I'm taking all these calls." When in fact, the owner or the practice administrator is like, "We really have to add a person over here for these reasons," or an expansion that's occurring that nobody knows about yet. So, I really encourage you to make that phone call and talk to the person who's in charge of hiring providers for the practice. That is a key sentence, a key word to use when you're making a phone call into those markets.

But it can be competitive, right? Because if you are in a smaller targeted area, you really need to set yourself apart. I'll tell you one thing, making that phone call sets yourself apart. Also, it shows that you are proactively looking for the right opportunity. I will often encourage people to say that. "I'm proactively looking for the right opportunity, to make a move. I'm not quitting my jobs tomorrow, but I'm looking for opportunities in the area, and I want to know what your practice has to offer and how I might be a great addition to that practice." When you're in the job market, if you're in a tight market, a city that's really oversaturated with derm practices and your noncompete covers half of them, and you've got to make a move and you know it, those are the things that are really going to set you apart, that you can make those phone calls, get in there.

The other thing is networking. You have to make sure that ... If you're not with the societies, the derm societies, or the derm professionals in your area, it's a big lost opportunity. You really want to be calling up doctors, even, in those practices you're interested in and saying, "Hey, I'm reaching out to you because I'd like to buy you a coffee before you start clinic on Thursday. Do you have 15 minutes you can give me?" Network with those people. It's really important.

That goes back to people trying to break into the derm specialty, period. They're like, "I'm an MP or PA. I'm in family medicine. Great experience, done tons of skin stuff, but I want to be in a derm office now." And those are conversations we have a lot with candidates that call into us.

But many times, if you're an MP or PA that's talked to us before, you know that we will say to you, "We want you to get into the practice or into the specialty. We need you in the specialty. However, our clients are coming to us and paying us to go out and find people who have experience, at least this much experience in derm, in a derm office already." But with that, we don't just leave you high and dry. We give you a bunch of tips that you can do, including these phone calls, including all of these little nuggets of advice. We even have a blog on our website as well, on mydermrecruiter.com, of how to break into dermatology.

Even using some of those best practices for people who don't have experience, those still apply. A lot of time to people have 10+ years experience. Those little nuggets of get on the phone, network, offer a practice manager or a physician owner a coffee to have a quick discussion with them to learn more about their practice. People like talking about their practices, especially physician owners. If you can get some information straight from the horse's knob, how valuable is that in making your decision to make a career move? And you might have a coffee with some like, "Man, I got to work for this guy." Or you might have a coffee with him and go, "Yeah, not what I thought. Moving on."

It's very valuable, very valuable insight to get that conversation going. Whether it's on the phone, or it's in an in-person meeting, or it's in a networking event, that face-to-face. Time is very, very valuable.

Speaker 1:

You can get more career insights from Michelle and her team at mydermrecruiter.com. And be sure to join us next month for part two of our conversation.

If you want to work as a physician assistant in Oregon, you may encounter some difficulty, but physician associates abound. In this episode's Dermalorian Derm Decoder, we take a look at a new law that took effect in the beaver state this month. Oregon laws now reference physician associates and will abandon the term physician assistant. PAs in practice are free to adopt the title change. Oregon is the first state to adopt the physician associate title into law. The state medical board will work over the next several months to update websites, licenses and applications, and other materials to reflect the title change.

Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Dermalorian Podcast from the Dermatology Education Foundation. You can hear other episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you want to catch up with us in real life, consider attending the DEF Essential Resource 2024 or Derm 2024 NPPA CME Conference July 24th to 28th in Las Vegas. Space is filling up, but it's not too late to register at dermNPPA.org.