Ep 32. Are you Ready to Experiment with Your Money? (with special guest Ange Marick)

On this week's podcast, I brought on my dear friend, Ange Marick.  With a diverse background in entrepreneurship and a keen insight into the dynamics of money mindset, Ange offers a unique perspective that is both enlightening and thought-provoking.  Drawing from her personal experiences and upbringing, Ange brings a wealth of knowledge to the table, shedding light on the intricate relationship between beliefs and financial wellness.

Her expertise and open communication style create an engaging platform for discussing the often-overlooked subject of money, encouraging each of us to re-evaluate our own money mindset. Ange's pragmatic approach and practical wisdom provide a solid foundation for exploring new paths to financial empowerment and fulfillment.

We share our experiences growing up with money and the messages that were relayed to us regarding money.   We dive into the emotions that we both have felt in regard to money and how we are both on a mission to normalize talking about money.

In this episode, we discuss:
•How our bodies show us when we aren't in alignment
•It's not money's job to meet our emotional needs
•Knowing your values and using your money to reflect those values
•Freely living with our money vs. attempting to "protect" our money
•Money is a great teacher

Ange shares the book she is currently reading Busting Loose from the Money Game by Robert Scheinfeld.

If you want to learn more about Ange, you can find her on Instagram at drangelamarick or her website here.  To learn more about her school in Kenya, click here.

Thank you for listening and as always, from my soul to yours,
Erin

Compassionate financial mentor and guide to female entrepreneurs so that they have peace of mind and fun with their money in order to live life now and in the future.

To join the waitlist for Grow the CEO cohort click here.

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As always, thanks for listening.

From my soul to yours.
Erin

Transcript

00:00:01
You're listening to generate a life well lived podcast. I'm your friend and confidant, Erin Gray. I created this podcast for all the generators in the world to inspire you to live a life that you love and desire that is in alignment with who you truly are, not who you. Think you should be. Okay, my friends, we've already been laughing and having fun.

00:00:23
I have my friend Ange Merrick on. The podcast today, and we're going to. Talk about all things money, because as I have mentioned in podcasts before, there's not a lot of people that want to talk about money, or it doesn't seem like it, or I haven't found. A whole bunch of people that want. To talk about money.

00:00:40
So do you want to share a little bit? You want to go by Ange or Ange? I think Ange is more fun just because you're my friend, and my friends call me, you know, I think it's funny. I am part of a group in Marco Polo. I was like an ambassador for them, and I was asked to facilitate a group of business leaders and owners.

00:01:05
And it's so fascinating. And we have women from all over, including Australia, in this small group. And I have been talking, asking, hey, do you guys want to talk about money? And everybody's like, I want to talk about it. And it feels like it's like the thing everybody.

00:01:20
I don't know if everybody, but a lot of people want to talk about but are afraid to or don't feel like they have the safe spaces to actually say the things that they really think and believe and are scared or excited about. And I think creating the space that you're choosing to do and practicing that, we're going to start to normalize this. In fact, I had a woman recently say to me, because we were talking about asking for money, I have a nonprofit as well as a for profit business. And she's like, what if we start normalizing asking for money profit? I was like, well, that's a fascinating conversation as well.

00:01:53
So I'm here for all the things and the magic of however it wants to flow today. And, yeah, when you said, I don't. Know if you said it or my brain went to it, but safe to have the conversation, right. I think a lot of us, for whatever reason, obviously, you could probably stem it back to childhood and all the things, right. Culture, all the things.

00:02:25
It's not a safe space, and it's not a nurturing, loving space to talk about money or to have money conversations. Yeah. So we're just completely creating trailblazing our own space. And I like to choose some really delicious statements about money and intentions, as I have beat the shit out of myself for decades about not being good with it. Before you go there, I want to know, start us back at how did you used to view money?

00:02:58
Or how did you grow up with money? Sure. Yeah. So I really grew up something, at. Least from my own connection.

00:03:09
Direct experience with money is it flowed in and out very quickly. It never stayed with me. Very. Right. Like, just my own experience.

00:03:17
When I get my allowance, I would go to Woolworths and go, my wet and wild nail polish or to Claire's and go get earrings. Right? And that was it. I never really believed, and frankly, the narrative that my parents thought kind of, I was raised with feeling me, you're not good managing, right? Yeah.

00:03:41
And it's interesting, my brother was raised a little bit differently. I feel like they believed in him more, in his ability to navigate money, maybe. And I felt like I was like the little baby bird that had to be protected. Like, oh, she's not going to be good with it, so we'll make sure. And I never felt, like, believed in, like, hey, you're going to be able to generate a lot of wealth and you'll be good with it.

00:04:04
That narrative never landed in my own awareness. I always thought everybody else, in fact, my brother, he's the one that went into finance, right, and worked for some big corporations, which is fascinating. But I looked at my parents as my dad was the gatekeeper of the money flow and my mom was the spender, is how it always felt. But they were very thoughtful and strategic. They did talk about it, they did have communication about it, which I really respected.

00:04:32
But they were very thoughtful. They did not make, I say they didn't make impulsive decisions, but I was like, wow. They always bought really amazing cars, including a Corvette, which I loved, and a boat. So they used it for things that they really enjoyed, which happened to be modes of transportation, motorcycles, cars, and boats. And that was like how we got to experience it.

00:05:00
It just never felt like it was an overabundance of flow of it, but we always had enough and we always would spend it. Like, my dad would never clip coupons for food. He's like, for food, we get what we want and we don't hold back. So that was kind of the things. When I reflected upon what that was like growing up, the word that comes.

00:05:23
To mind is, like, what they valued, right? Which food. It's totally food. And, yeah, me currently, now I value experiences and travel. And so a large part of our money, right.

00:05:38
Goes to that. But if you were to be like, do you care about the type of clothes that you wear? It's like, I don't value that. Right. And so it's just interesting.

00:05:53
It's like, it's not a cheap mentality. It's just like, where do I want to spend and what do I value?

00:06:04
Growing up, I had an entrepreneur still. Well, he sold his business, but had an entrepreneurial father, had business, made money, same kind of thing. Like, I had it, lost it. Where does it go when we lose it? Right.

00:06:21
And then back again. And I remember so much of. It's interesting because the body remembers. Right. I don't necessarily know if I remember specific things that he would say.

00:06:33
I know money is hard and you have to work really hard for it, but there definitely have been times when I have spent money in the past where my body has felt it. So it's almost like the spending of it, the using of it was not a free flowing. I've been kind of, like, contemplating that because it's like the use of it. It's almost like I was talking to. My brother yesterday about this, and it's like he had the idea of, like, I'm just going to go make all the money.

00:07:10
And I was like, I'm going to hoard and save as much as I can. And so it's just a very different, like you were talking about your brother and you and just how we have an experience and then how we cope with that experience to keep us safe. Yeah. And I'll be honest, as you're saying that I realized that I was raised one to in purpose is to get married and have kids young before the age of 30. And there was never, like a dialogue about me actually generating money and taking care of myself.

00:07:49
It would always be like, you're going to have a husband. A spouse will do that for you. Spouse, right. And it was just kind of like, I don't even know if it was ever stated, but it kind of felt like it was just understood. Right.

00:08:01
In my parents both my dad was an engineer, my mom was a teacher. So they had pensions, which when you become an entrepreneur, you're like, what is that? Tell me more. Right. They had pensions.

00:08:12
They had guaranteed salary. Right. There was such security that was very much a very purpose filled thing growing up. Like just having security in that way. And so much power, I think, was given to that.

00:08:33
I didn't even know that there was a whole other world to explore. Growing up, I just only saw what I saw, and that needed to be secure. And you had to be responsible and thoughtful and really strategic and intentional, which. Is so fascinating because a lot of us, I mean, I came from a job, right? And we believe and have been taught that our salary is so secure.

00:09:03
Like, I've talked to so many people, right, that are like, oh, but I can't leave my job or that complete trust in it, right?

00:09:16
Versus they could come in at any time and decide, we need to decrease pay. We need to let you go. It's such a collective belief, I think. That a lot of us have grown up with, of, like, okay, if you get a job, then that's a safe and secure thing, and you save for retirement, and that's a safe and secure. Thing until you realize it's all bullshit.

00:09:39
Yeah.

00:09:43
So as you grew up and you're like, okay, I'm supposed to get married. I'm supposed to have someone that takes care of me. When did the light bulb kind of flash on for you that you're like. Hey, wait a second. I'm just kidding.

00:09:58
Did you say today? Today, yeah. Light bulb is going on. I think it's an ever evolving light bulb. Right?

00:10:04
Yes.

00:10:08
I was on beddress with both of my pregnancies, which, by the way, I did have my children by 30. Had two. You did? Good job. Yeah.

00:10:17
I got married at 24, kid at 28 and 30. I just got right under the mark. But what's so interesting was, when I went on beddress with Carter, it was. Right when the secret came out, and. I was on beddress for five.

00:10:33
Know which I was used to, like, go, go. Wait, were you working or providing income during this time? Okay, so here's what I was a. My husband Josh, was working. At a.

00:10:46
Job where he was getting a pay and all the things, like, he was the w two employee, and I was a chiropractor, and I was working for somebody else. And, of course, when you go on beddress as a chiropractor, you can't do it remote. So I stopped working, but I started reading about the secret, and I was like, wait, you mean I could have dreams beyond what I've already created? And I started actually imagining that I might have my own business and I'd always worked for somebody else because I just didn't feel ready. And I love that.

00:11:19
When I became a chiropractor in 2003, I knew I wasn't ready to go out and just open my practice. I had no model, nobody around me. Close to me was an entrepreneur. And frankly, I was like, I also want to trust myself. What happens if you get some weird case and maybe I won't know how to handle it, whatever.

00:11:38
So I learned in some of my earlier experiences of the things to do. And not to do. Anyway, I was on bed rest, and I read about the secret, and I was like, what is this law of attraction and what is all this? And it just started opening up kind of my old paradigm, if you will, conditioning to another way of experimenting, experiencing. And it's funny, I remember.

00:12:02
So I started actually working out of a friend's office once I got off beddress, had the babies, had the baby, and I had two little ones. And I realized very quickly I was just not designed to be a stay at home mom full time. I tried. I lost my mind almost. And my husband was like, what do you need?

00:12:18
I'm like, I need to go back to work part time so I can do both. And so I did. And so I built a practice from nothing outside of a friend. I was an independent contractor. And two years later, I hit the level that I had set out to, which is around 100 visits a week, that I was ready to actually open my own business.

00:12:35
So in 2010, I opened my own business. And it was so fascinating to me that this was possible, that I could create something like that. But I was also in the paradigm. If I don't work, I don't get paid. And at the end of that first year in practice, I ended up having right lower quadrant pain in my belly.

00:12:54
And I knew instantly what it was. And of course, I ignored it and went to work because I'm like, if I don't work, I can't pay the bills. And there was such a scarcity, such. A fear behind it, right? And sure enough, I go to the doctor at lunchtime.

00:13:09
They're like, you need to go to the hospital. It was appendicitis. It had actually ruptured. Thankfully, it did not spread throughout my entire intestine. I did not go septic.

00:13:18
It walled off. So I was only out for two weeks. Instead of, it could have been months or again, I could have died, right? Yet in my mind, I was like, but I was justified. I had to push it because I had to make money and I was responsible.

00:13:32
And I see this over and over and over again, right? We don't know any better part of us, you just have to be like, have a little compassion, right? Like, oh, you're so cute. You're like a new entrepreneur, and you don't know that. You don't know what you don't know.

00:13:45
Anyhow, so I went through that experience, and it was such a profound one. Because I realized, oh, my gosh, why. Are we doing this? It wasn't like we were living paycheck to paycheck. Our bills were being paid.

00:13:56
My husband was making more money than me at that time anyway, right? And my business had already. I had already paid back all the loans I had taken out in the six months. I had a small line of credit. I had paid it back within six months.

00:14:08
It was in the black. I was able to pay payroll always while I had this practice. So it was just such an interesting thing how even all the evidence is still in front of us. I call it amnesia. I think we have abundance amnesia over and over again, and I have been so guilty of that.

00:14:28
Yes. And it's so fascinating, because I wrote down, we're in this survival hustle. I want to talk about hustle, but in a different way. But survival and stressing. And I believe that's what our nervous systems are used to.

00:14:44
And so until we can get to. That place of, like, oh, okay. Actually slowing down. Here's the other thing I think, too. You and I are both generators, and I think we've been so trained to act like manifesto, something.

00:14:59
Just go out there, make it happen, and do the thing, and forge ahead. That's where my appendicitis came from. I tried to be a manifesto, and I just should have just knocked it off. But our bodies are telling us, and how. Me, I have had several health things that have come up, and it's like, we refuse to listen to them because of the almighty.

00:15:29
I know in my journey, it continued for years, and my husband Josh, was very much in that frugal mindset. Like, we don't spend money, and it was definitely in that he would spend money on things, like. Like, so we took a trip to Europe, but that was a value of his. And we went to Greece. We actually did one of the original marathon.

00:15:55
The original marathon in Greece. That was my last marathon. Never again. But I can say I did it once. But the thing that is so interesting is witnessing.

00:16:07
So, life took me on a journey where, one, I had that experience of that hustle and how it showed up in my body, and I witnessed Josh, how he was like, even when we went to go buy a bigger vehicle, we had two children, like my little Saturn ion, my 2004 Saturn ion, which I love, that car was getting to the end of its rope, and it was time for us to maybe get a little bit bigger car and all the things. And I remember I went to the dealership and I was going to go get a Ford Explorer in 2011, and right when I was about to sign off on it, they're like, hey, I was getting the base model, and they're like, hey, for $3,000 more, you can get four wheel drive and a backup camera. And I remember calling Josh and like, hey, how about I get this next level? It'll be safer. And all the things to which, God.

00:16:59
Love him, he said, if you need. Four wheel drive, you shouldn't be driving. You shouldn't be driving in those conditions. And if you get a backup camera, maybe you're not going to be as safe as you could be because you're going to rely on it too much. And he said no.

00:17:13
And at that time, I just wanted to please him and not make him upset because I already knew he was already struggling with us buying this car to begin with. It was a $28,000 base model in 2011, and we literally had the money sitting in an account and then some, right? And we still didn't do that. And it was just such an interesting thing of how that shows up, what we discover. It was safer for him to not get it than for to have the safety features right?

00:17:45
And it was just an interesting dialogue, but it's always interesting seeing the people that are in our life to reflect back these stories about money. And he taught me so much. Yeah.

00:17:57
I want to go back real quick. When you had paid up back all of the loans and everything for your chiropractic business, do you remember the energy that you were in? Was it like, I have to hurry up and pay this back as quickly as I can? Like, it was just very, like, was. It proving energy, too?

00:18:14
Do you feel like it was proving energy or was more so just, I. Can'T have the debt? I think it was a little both. But it was more for my perception of what I thought might stress Josh out. So when Josh and I got married, I was in chiropractic school.

00:18:29
So I was accumulating debt even though I was able to get half of my tuition paid for through scholarship because I worked really hard in that paradigm. Like, if I just get straight A's, which I did, and graduated top of my class, because that was proving where I was, like, I want to prove that I'm still smart.

00:18:50
And then you get out into the real world and you're faced with the human, you're like, they don't care if you have straight a's or straight b's or straight c's, right. They want to care. Can you help? Right. And I'm like, anyway, but with that experience, I remember wanting to get rid of the debt because for sure, we hadn't had much debt other than a mortgage, which we had actually paid off right before I started my practice.

00:19:17
So we didn't have any debt at all except this line of credit, since we didn't need to live on my income, we lived on his income at that time. And I just put everything back towards the line of credit, and it was paid off within six months. And that felt amazing. But yet I think I was doing it from a people pleasing. Like, I wanted to show Josh that it was safe for us to have this business and this debt and that.

00:19:40
I could pay it off and also. So I could feel safe and not feeling like I was causing somebody else's. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I can see how.

00:19:53
Because I have been Josh, right. Like, I see you and my husband, Jason and me, and, like, it would be stressful. It's like every time, some big amount of money, we need to. Even though we had it, even though it was okay. Right.

00:20:09
And how he had made decisions not. To do something because it would make me feel stressed. Right. He can't make me feel stressed. And also.

00:20:21
Right, like that. Elicit that emotion and then he feels that, too, because I'm stressed.

00:20:28
How we want to please, really. We're pleasing our partner so we don't feel that discomfort. Right. For sure, yeah. Being a nurturer.

00:20:39
Right. I would. The responsibility of your emotional experience. Right. This goes back to my childhood and all the things.

00:20:48
Right. But however he was emotionally, that's it. He had asked me to, but I had taken that on, that it is my fault if you're stressed. I am fully responsible for all of it. I hadn't know the thought model.

00:21:03
I hadn't learned a lot of the tools. I learned through coaching and all the things until later, obviously, but I thought it was all of my fault and I would take that pressure on. And I still remember Josh telling me at one know, he's like, Ange, I wish I would get hit by a bus so that I don't have all this pressure. And I say that with full openness, because I really think that my story with money and with Josh is profound. And I also feel that part of the legacy of our journey together is to help others see a different way to connect with something that feels nourishing.

00:21:40
That feels loving and supportive and honoring. Like, my whole body just is, like, a little bit teary, a little bit of chills from the sense of, like. Because I have found in most of my friends there's that one person that has the. If you want to call it, they choose it. Right.

00:22:01
They take the brunt of the responsibility on, from the financial standpoint. Right. And then you have the other partner. Who I don't want to say goes. Along, but very much is like, okay, they're stressed, so I don't want to.

00:22:15
It's almost like this tiptoeing around. Right. Because you have. Yeah. It's so awkward for both parties, right.

00:22:24
Because the party that feels. That intense responsibility feels responsible for everything. Like, it's a heavy, heavy weight. Like you're saying, like, the pressure. I remember what that pressure used to feel like.

00:22:36
Right. And then for the party that is. Like, well, I want to be able. To get what I want, and I want to ask for what I want, but I feel bad every time I ask for what I want because it totally stresses my partner out.

00:22:50
That doesn't feel good either. No, but I think it.

00:22:58
And then you get a bigger perspective. Right.

00:23:06
So Josh was a manifesting generator, and it was 2015, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And the thing, and I share this. For so many reasons, was, one, his. Cancer started in his solar plexus, which should have been his authority in his human design. And I didn't realize that till probably last year, two years ago.

00:23:38
He passed away in 2016. It's been seven and a half years. And the other thing, too, because we. Also don't talk about it. Grief is a really wildly awkward conversation.

00:23:52
So money and grief, I feel like they're hand in hand. In my mind. It's sacred. So.

00:24:01
The thing that was so beautiful with Josh, right, was at the end of his life, he had worked so hard. He worked at a job that he did not love, he was not passionate about, but he was passionate about me and our boys. That was always true. We were his value. Even though he never let himself fully feel free in his journey, with his profession, and with money.

00:24:30
And at the end of his life, he found this profound faith in something greater than himself, and he surrendered to it. And I don't have the words to describe the beauty of what I got. To witness, but he gave me this. Beautiful gift of witnessing him in his journey. And the legacy that he has left for me that I keep, has diamonds.

00:24:54
I feel like it's infinite diamonds that I'm always exploring and discovering. And one of those, which was a massive trigger, which has been a wild experience, was the life insurance money I received after he passed, which was in the amount of $600,000. And interestingly, for those that are in wealth management, that account has been labeled transfer on death, which has been a shitty name. That really needs to be redone, I think, in my mind. But I realized that that account, that money account had become word that just came through, was like a noose at times, because I felt like I couldn't trust myself with it.

00:25:42
I felt like it was death money. Like, if I had just made more. Money when he was alive, maybe he. Would have been still be alive. And that's a really effed up way to think about it, right?

00:25:56
And I wasn't conscious of this until last year and really put so much power and pressure in this account. And then this past year, and I've remarried with this wonderful man named Paul. And he has a totally different money journey. And it has been totally reimagined and walked through in such an interesting way. But we decided to build a house in Kenya, which that's a whole other story.

00:26:28
But in Kenya, yes, Kenya, Africa, like. Not down the street. I live in Pennsylvania. And I realized when I said yes to this project, I was going to be walking through all of my money nightmares. Right.

00:26:44
And what are we going to use? And is this being responsible? We're building a house in another country that we are not physically present to watch it, which, by the way, has been building practices in Kenya are widely different than us. And everybody has a different vision of what this home was going to look like. And what's so interesting is I knew when I said yes to this project, it was going to help me heal and transcend some of my money stories.

00:27:08
And I knew we were probably going to utilize this account either to borrow against or to alchemize it into a physical home structure, which is currently happening, but we're actually able to still, anyway. So it's been an intentional journey that. I was at least somewhat aware that it was going to trigger all of my things and what I made money mean, what I made that account mean about my own feelings and really practicing and walking through my own healing journey with money and with my late husband, as well as this account and what it has represented in grief and money and love. I look at it from such a beautiful thing. Right.

00:27:52
What a gift that he's been able to give. And I know that you have had thoughts around the guilt. Right.

00:28:01
But the gift. Right. It's like the gift that keeps on giving because of what you said, alchemize. And, like, I love that. It's like, what continues and will continue.

00:28:12
To happen in that house and in Kenya and all of the things because of that. It's so beautiful. It really is. I think that's one of the reasons why I started going for my private pilot's license, was just taking that bird's eye view to really put it into perspective. Right.

00:28:40
And really using the metaphor of that, like, okay, all these things that we get all caught up on the ground and it feels heavy and all this stuff, and then we're able to lift this structure, this metal structure, into the air and easily and to be able to take another perspective and a viewpoint. It has been such a beautiful process. Another gift, another layer that I've been able to access that allows to really heal and rewrite the narrative and the energetic vibration of this experience and.

00:29:21
What'S. Being called in now. Yeah. When you think about or you feel money and you use money and receive money, and how do you view it and how does it feel for you now versus how it used to feel? Yeah.

00:29:37
Well, this past year, it's been really triggering because my current husband, Paul, was a teacher, and he decided to leave teaching to support me in my whatever journey I'm feeling called into.

00:29:57
So our, quote, safe money also went away. Right. Like that regular influx. And here we're building this house. Oh, here's another thing that we need to send money for.

00:30:08
Oh, wait, here's another thing. Of course, none of it was anticipated. Right? And yet it was right.

00:30:17
Every time I was using a credit card this past year, it felt like a knife in my heart, like, I'm doing it wrong. I'm failing. I shouldn't be. I'm being so irresponsible. I felt really unsafe with money a lot this year, and most recently.

00:30:36
I. Reframing the narrative around money. So I wrote down recently, the sentence that I've been loving for me is, money nourishes me, and money is also a sacred teacher, and I'm feeling that nourishment from it. And the wonder as well as the.

00:31:05
I sold my chiropractic practice a few years. So, because we just. Long story, very short, cliff notes version. Paul and I got married. He had a child.

00:31:16
I had my two. We had a blending of family, which was a value of mine that our family was going to. I said, like, succeed, but it was. Going to be a family connect. Yeah.

00:31:31
And we were connecting, and we rebuilt it. And I think we nailed it. We have three boys that are moving forward in life in their own way. And it has been challenging and beautiful and all the things, and that was a value of mine, and I didn't realize it so much, but I sold my practice so I could be more present at home. And I started coaching, which was really my healing process.

00:31:54
And then just recently, I started practicing chiropractic again once a week. Not from a hustle. Hey, let's see how many visits we can pack in in one day. Which at one point, I think I saw as many as 93 people in a day, which sounds horrifying to my body right now. And now it's like, oh, eight people.

00:32:11
And it feels delicious and just, like, loving each person. And it's a very different experience now. But with that, I realized, so I'm getting a paycheck again. And so I realized the first paycheck, I was starting to judge it. Like, I shouldn't need a paycheck, right?

00:32:28
Like, I've had enough of these resources. I should all be enough, right? But I realized, what if money's here to nourish me? And what if I just let my husband pick up the paycheck and deposit it? And I don't need to really know the number right now just because I'm still healing some of the conditioning, what I make it mean, what I don't make it mean.

00:32:44
So I've been experimenting with money. So that's been coming through. And this past week, I had a birthday, and on Facebook, it has like, hey, do a fundraiser if you want, for your birthday. Well, I started a nonprofit last year because I decided to co create a school in Kenya. Because why not?

00:33:04
And we have been using our resources to fund the school for a significant part of it. And I was like, well, what if. We just do the fundraiser? And Facebook suggested $200. I'm like, how about $500 as a goal?

00:33:17
Why not? Within two days, it was $700 that were donated. And then Facebook just said, oh, we have a giving fund. Here's $225 grant that I didn't even know existed, right? So literally $1,000 just came through.

00:33:31
And then a family member is like, hey, here's a $500 check for the school. So for the first time ever, all the expenses to run our school in. Kenya for one month is covered because. I decided to experiment. Yeah, right?

00:33:46
And I'm releasing the. As I'm healing, right? Letting money be my healer and my teacher is, like, letting go of the attachment of what I needed to identify with in order to feel safe, in order to feel a certain way, in order to be who I am in the world. Versus I get to experiment with money. Yeah, I know.

00:34:09
It always has felt like you have used words that I now feel with money. Right. It used to be this. Like, to me, it was like, high stakes. Right.

00:34:22
It's a big thing. Right. Don't waste it. Don't mess it up. If you mess up something, if you take a class and you don't do it, now you've wasted the money or you tried a food and you didn't like it and you didn't eat it all.

00:34:35
So now it was like everything felt very. Yeah. High stakes is the only word that comes to mind. That versus.

00:34:46
I don't think my nervous system is truly at the point of where it's like my breath, where I never even doubt it, but for sure it's come a long way from that. Right. That's why we're talking about it in a way that we're not triggered. Right. But the experimentation.

00:35:05
Right. What if we just. I love that because it's like, what else do we put such.

00:35:16
Heavy. Sometimes I'm like, money, I'm so sorry for the way that I treated you. Because it was heaviness, whether so much responsibility on you as a mom, as a wife. Right. I think those things I know.

00:35:32
As a chiropractor, I did at times, right? Like, oh, my God, somebody felt worse after adjustment. It's all my fault. Not to mention, hey, this human came to you for whatever. I think those things are really important to recognize where we put so much high stakes.

00:35:47
You say there's only one path, and if you don't do it right, your guardrails are shame and guilt. Yeah.

00:36:00
You mentioned the secret. And for those of you that are listening, all the law of attraction, all of it, right. If we're in that state of like, it's like. Right. We're going to create more of it.

00:36:11
What can come in, what can be allowed, because. And I think our minds want to. Which comes back to safety. Right. Our minds want to know where it's going to come from.

00:36:21
Because we're so. That's probably what we've done. Right? Like, we're so conditioned in that way versus doing what we love to do, playing with it. Let's just see what happens.

00:36:37
And we forget that we're the ones that created the whole money thing in the first place. Right. We totally did. In fact, I wanted to share this. I'm actually reading book right.

00:36:47
Now, have you heard of it? Busting loose? Busting loose? No. Money game and mind blowing strategies.

00:36:54
Well, it's a process. Strategies sometimes is a little triggering for me still, but mind blowing strategies or a process for changing the rules of a game that you can't win. And I love this so much because. Robert Scheinfield, he really talks about everything's a hologram. If it's all an, like the numbers in the like, all we do is we just attach our egoic conditioning, right?

00:37:22
And most oftentimes it's so, you know, for a little while, I was like, hey, Paul, to my husband, I'm like, hey, can you handle some of the things in the bank accounts and all that stuff? Because right now it's triggering. Know, it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars have gone out the door to Kenya for this house that we're also hoping to rent at some point. Imagine it's generating some sort of resource flow. But yet on the other side of it, too, is like, okay, I also played with what if literally the house imploded and all that money went out.

00:37:57
And I realized I'm like, I'm okay with that, but where am I not okay? And then so something else I'm also. Playing with too, is I am so. Turned on by the fact of being a sugar mama and my husband being a trophy husband. And we say this with such playfulness.

00:38:16
Because my husband, because I always am. Like, are you sure? Do you feel emasculated? Like, all the things he's like, he's told me this ever since we got married five, six years ago. He's like, and I would love to be a trophy husband.

00:38:27
He's like, I'm totally cool. I love puttering around the house. It's so interesting. So we've gone through this whole process because at first I was like, well, if you're a trophy, what's your purpose? Like, all this stuff, right?

00:38:38
And what has been so freaking fun, apparently loves going out and marketing me. Which is really weird, right? And like, my whole, like, oh, I don't want to be whatever. And he goes out and he talks about our school in Kenya. He goes out, talks about coaching and the know the spaces that we offer.

00:38:57
And it's so interesting because he loves it. And I think, too, when we get to reimagine all the quote triggering statements should or know in order to be a man in the world or a woman in the world. Paul and I have been just, and I know you and Jason, too, we've just been exploring if it's really all an illusion, what are we actually here? Like, let's. Let's really connect to the passion and.

00:39:26
What do we actually want? Right? Do you actually want to, like you say he loves to do that. Right. Versus these ideas that we have in our head that it's supposed to look like this and I'm supposed to follow.

00:39:41
It this way, nothing like it, and it's amazing and terrifying. Right. Yeah. And the thing you said something about the money in the bank account I read somewhere. I don't know if it was what.

00:39:58
Book it was, but they were talking about how anywhere between, like, 4% to 8% of actual physical money, which we know it's not even backed by the gold standard anymore. Right. But the actual physical money, like, if everyone wanted to go to the bank and get their money today, only four to 8% of the total amount of money that is circulating all around, we would be able to get. And so it's like, when you actually think about that, like, the $100, just from easy math, $100 that's in our bank account, we can only truly access four or $8 of it. The rest is literally.

00:40:32
Right. And even that, that's just in our egoic mind, thinking the 8% is safe because there's a gold backing somewhere, as. If gold is safe. Right. No.

00:40:41
Yeah. That's only based on, like, a collective, agreed upon standard. Yes. And so it's just fascinating to how. Much I was trying to think, like.

00:40:53
Okay, what else do we put so much pressure on? Like, we do with money? What did you say? Yeah. No, I said, yeah.

00:41:04
I was agreeing with you. Yeah. I don't know if there's not another thing that comes to mind that we heavily weight as much as we do with money. Yeah. So I think it depends also maybe on the way we were raised.

00:41:22
I know marriage was the most important thing. Get married, you stay married for the rest of your life. You don't get a choice. We don't get to choose every day. Okay.

00:41:35
No. And that is your number one. Like, you have been successful again. This is. Did you grow up?

00:41:42
Faith wasn't faith. I mean, I grew up in a christian environment. It wasn't. It was like, no, this is our value, okay? You get married and you make that commitment for life.

00:41:52
There's no option. I feel a lot of pressure right now. Yeah. Right. So I was raised with a lot of specific rules, so money was just part of.

00:42:04
Was one of the things. Right. But that was a big one. And it's so interesting. So when I remarried.

00:42:12
What happens when your spouse dies? Right? That was not something we talked about growing up. I know divorce wasn't an option. Well, what if they die at 40 and you still have a lot more life ahead of you?

00:42:24
Right. And interestingly, my current husband is divorced. And it was so fascinating when he. Came into my life. Well, he was actually separated at the time.

00:42:36
He wasn't officially divorced yet. He was going through the process. But I remember in my mind, I was raised that you don't ever get divorced. How do I reconcile that? As I'm dating somebody, right.

00:42:49
Who's doing something that wasn't quote allowed or it was actually judged as not good enough. Right. You clearly didn't do something right or try hard enough if you had to get divorced. Right? Again, just the paradigm.

00:43:04
I understood it. I'm not what you believe. It's just what you were taught. Yep. Well, and unconsciously, it was in my belief system.

00:43:12
Not currently. It's not what you currently believe, but it is what you used to maybe believe that were taught. Yeah. And thankfully, to Paul's credit, I was like, hey, I'm struggling with this because I grew up with this belief. Know.

00:43:27
You should never get divorced. If you're widowed, that's okay. But divorce for sure, not, right. And I was like, and I really want to let this go. And to Paul's credit, he's like, okay, let's talk about it.

00:43:36
And it was so beautiful because it was a safe space to be like, oh, my gosh. I'm realizing I have a judgment about it, and I know that that's not true, and I don't want to keep it in my wheelhouse anymore. And it was so cool because then I came to a place, I'm like, oh, my gosh. People that get divorced, like, wow, how brave, how courageous. All the things I came to see it from such a beautiful, loving, honoring perspective that I didn't know was available.

00:44:03
And I think just, like, money as well, right? Versus, like, I was raised, if you have too much, you clearly probably don't have a good. You've sacrificed your marriage and your family for the money. It's almost like this. This or.

00:44:19
Yeah, either or versus. And you and I are both like, I think it's aunt. What does this Ange's life look awesome. Was there a point in time for. You that you realized that?

00:44:33
Because I know that Josh used to handle the money more, so. But there was there a point, interestingly, actually, I did. Oh, I thought you said that he was like, oh, he just would be really stressed about it. But you were the one that did the money. I was the one who actually paid all the bills.

00:44:48
And I put things into, like, I put money into our money market and saved it and all the things. Would he just ask you questions and then based on those answers, he would feel stressed because if he wasn't the one doing it, would you sit down and you would have conversations about it? Or he would just like, any type of big spending, it would just be like, oh, it's stressful all of. Yeah. So was there a point in time.

00:45:12
That you thought that there was a. Certain amount of money that you would have that would either, one, make you feel safe or two, would relieve the pressure from Josh? I love that question. So I remember Josh and I sitting down to have a conversation when we were, before I got pregnant and we moved into our house, and it was in 2003. I had just graduated chiropractic school, started a job at an office, and we sat down and we're like, what kind of life do we want to have?

00:45:41
And how much money do we need to have? And the number at that time was $3 million. Weirdly. Not weirdly, that was about how much money, quote, in the net worth assets. I had after he passed or a.

00:45:57
Year after because I sold my practice.

00:46:01
Anyway, it was 3.2 is, I think, what I came to. And I laugh now because I'm like. It doesn't matter, right? And that number has chAnged and fluctuated. It's contracted some as I, you know all the things.

00:46:22
And I love that question so much because I realized that that was like, quote, the high point, if you will. And it was like, we're doing so much to try to protect it and stressing so much to protect that number, as if his legacy was tied up in that number versus living the most extraordinary free life, which is what Paul and I have consciously been working and practicing and enjoying. And I know you and Jason have. In your own beautiful way, that that's when it happened. And then this house and I realized this account, this transfer on death account, what if we just liquidated all of it and we would just erase all of the, quote, the borrowing against it, if you will.

00:47:09
And I talked to our financial advisor about it, and she's like, well, you can do that, but why would you want to? You could actually use that in a different way. And she showed another strategy. I love her. She's like my financial advisor.

00:47:20
She's like, I want to have a presentation of helping women to spend money without feeling guilt I think every financial advisor should do that. But it was such a beautiful awareness of, in my mind, I'm like, no, I have to get rid of all the debt. I have to be all the things to feel safe. And then I realized. No, that Safety.

00:47:45
Money is like, no, I am not your savior. Yeah, it's like, money's like, you put. A lot of responsibility on me, putting all that pressure. It's freaking stupid. We're here to play.

00:47:55
Go play. Go have freaking fun. Go fly an airplane. Yeah. And what's fascinating is I think that coming from the financial industry and some of the financial industry still, it's like this idea of this accumulation and we're going to get to this point, and I've really been thinking about this more.

00:48:15
Lately of like generators retirement and health. Because if we don't have things to do, if we don't have things to, we work because we love to do things, right and we don't have that, what's the point of having all of the money, right? We're not able to enjoy it. And this idea that it's always going to go up, right? Where is this currency or conduit is the word that comes to mind.

00:48:50
Like this inflow outflow of how we use our money versus it should continue to increase. And it needs to always.

00:49:04
Be growing. That net worth has to always be growing. Otherwise you're effed it all up. And here's what I think in this moment.

00:49:14
It's there just to teach us. It's really there just to love us. It's really there. I got full body children to like. Hey, let's go have some fun, right?

00:49:25
So my husband now, Paul's like, hey, I think I want to go and get my pilot's license. I'm like, okay, how about. And it requires, obviously we do probably some resources. And I'm like, okay, what if we just get sponsors? Maybe somebody might want to sponsor that part of that and be a part of my dream of bringing aviation to our school in Kenya.

00:49:46
And maybe they want to be a partner of that and a collaboration and that the sponsorship will be a part of it. Everybody wins. It's an, and there is no either or no win lose. It just grows and expands. But the money is going to just like our weight, right?

00:49:59
Like after Thanksgiving it went up, and then maybe a few days, like a week later or January, when everybody goes back to the gym, then it goes down a little bit, then it goes back like all the things. And what if today our weight as an example, because that could get really triggering. What if the weight, and this is. Something I've been practicing, what if the. Weight that we are today is perfect for our soul's experience in our human body?

00:50:21
What if the money we have right now is so fucking perfect for the experience our soul is curated for us to have in this life? Yeah. And maybe we just get to let go and have some freaking fun. That's the ticket right there, right? Done.

00:50:38
Game over. Because why are we saving all of. The money to begin with? Let's get coming with us to the other side. But we are saving it, right?

00:50:47
Because at some point we want to go have some fun. So why don't we just go have some fun right now? And that doesn't mean we're not saying, like, okay, blow it all and all. Of the things, right? And also, why aren't we having fun right now?

00:50:58
Why are we delaying.

00:51:03
Know? And it's so interesting. As much as I have judged myself for, quote, spending so much money, I'm like, oh, my gosh, we have our retirement accounts that are beautifully in their space. And again, that's all an illusion, too. But I have that.

00:51:16
Josh and I made five twenty nine s for the kids. So my oldest going to college now. And I'm like, I don't worry about it. I have a fund. And if that fund gets depleted, the kids are responsible and there's a beautiful amount in there.

00:51:30
I am so grateful for, by the way, this conversation and being able to have this openness and the freedom to talk about the things that, frankly, just people are afraid to. And it feels so freeing and joy filled. Why do you think people are afraid. To talk about it? Yeah.

00:51:51
Have you been in the past afraid to talk about it? We can't, I guess, project why other people. But what was your reason? And I'll share my reason. I think that's a lot of us, right?

00:52:06
I believe it's like, for women, it's like going to the gynecologist, right? And you're like, I'm going to do that. And have filling. They're always like, scooch closer. And ladies, you're going to understand this reference.

00:52:16
Men, maybe not. They're like, hey, relax your legs. You don't want to relax your legs. I'm just saying I feel like it's very similar to that experience, right? My gosh, I love that.

00:52:25
So I think that's part of it, right? And so when we start to normalize it in your nervous system and you find out you don't die in the process, it actually starts to evolve. We just don't want to look in the mirror. Right? Like, we don't want to face the facts.

00:52:38
And also having so much compassion for ourselves. Right. Like, coming from that place of, like, it's okay, right? It's okay that I'm scared, but I'm. Willing to do it anyways, right?

00:52:48
It's like the same thing with gynecology. Is like, I'm willing to take care of my health, and in the beginning, it's not the most fun, right? No. And I think that's something that I've been learning over and over again, and I know you have, too. It's like I'm willing to face the things that go bump in the dark.

00:53:05
In my own brain so that I. Can help make a difference in the world. Because I feel this in my soul and I feel from the legacy of. Josh, I'm here to live a life. Of freedom and extraordinary and nourishing life and be the invitation, energetically for others to do in their own sacred path.

00:53:27
Yeah. It's the willingness. I've always said, like, we need to talk about willingness and courage because those are the two. I don't know if those are emotions, right. But it's that willingness and that courage because it doesn't feel good in the beginning.

00:53:40
Right. But are we willing? Hell yeah. And that's why we're talking about it so good. Thank you.

00:53:47
My friend. If you want to take this work deeper and receive one on one support while you are coming back home to yourself, breaking old patterns while having fun on your journey, I might be your girl. You can head over to my website to schedule a call. And as always, from my soul to yours, close.