Ep 35. Embracing Mini-Retirements for Financial and Emotional Freedom (with special guest Robert Hill)

 I invited Robert Hill, an adventure elopement photographer and business coach, on the podcast to discuss the impact of mini-retirements and how they can propel us toward true financial and emotional freedom if we allow them to.  Together, we share the challenges that brought us face-to-face with the necessity of stepping away from our work to rediscover our true north.

I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and Robert is such a wealth of knowledge with somatic practices, Human Design and being what he teaches.

Burnout seems to be something that most people encounter.  Robert and I share our experience with it and how we worked through it.  We discussed how we used to feel the need to prove our worth and highlighted the transformative power of somatic practices.   As we peel back the layers of our professional and personal trials, we dive into the philosophies of human design and the power of vulnerability in our coaching practices, offering insights into how these tools can revolutionize your path to growth.

On the podcast Robert shares: 

• His story of exponential business growth and the overwhelm that ensued 
• Why mindset advice alone rarely creates lasting change 
• How dysregulation impacts every aspect of life 
• Why getting into your body is often uncomfortable yet necessary 
• How breathwork and nature connect us with our subconscious 
• Why trauma lives in the body and must be addressed 
• How community and vulnerability are crucial for regulation 
  
  Works we mentioned in this episode:
  
  
• Simon Sinek's Ted Talk
• The Body Keeps Score: Brain, Mind and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk M.D.
• When the Body Says No by Gabor Mate

You can connect with Robert on his website or via his Instagram page

Compassionate financial mentor and guide to female entrepreneurs so that they have peace of mind and fun with their money in order to live life now and in the future.

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As always, thanks for listening.

From my soul to yours.
Erin

Transcript

Erin Gray: 0:00

You're listening to Generate a Life Well Live podcast. I'm your friend and confidant, Erin Gray. I created this podcast to have a place where I could express and vulnerably share my insights with you regarding money, self-development, parenting and travel. I hope you enjoy the journey where I share everything I know and am continuing to learn along the way, as I honor my heart's desires while inspiring and encouraging you to do the same. Hey, hey, my friends, how are we today? So on the podcast, I've got Robert Hill and he is an adventure a loatement photographer I'm like I kind of like practice saying that several times and a business coach, and what I say is he literally is my brother from another mother, because we've had a lot of conversations offline and we have very similar stories. So I'm so grateful that you're here and I'm ready to talk about many retirements and money. So thanks, Robert.

Robert Hill: 0:57

Thanks for coming to me. Yeah, it shouldn't be exciting conversation. Yeah, it's. You know, this morning, when I was kind of prepping a little bit for today, I was just thinking about just how wild it is how we met and just like the connection of being in a workshop and having some similarities that led to this. It's just wild how the universe works sometimes.

Erin Gray: 1:21

Yeah, what Robert's referring to is we were both like on in a group or, like he's saying, a workshop about human design, and we connected because he and I are both generators and we both have a defined head in Ajna, which I think is very small, like maybe 10% or something Don't call me to the exact number, right, percentage wise but a small amount of of a small amount percentage of the population. And then we are also really undefined in a lot of other areas as well, and so we have bonded over you know our sameness and our differences, and one of the things that we really connected on is both he and I have, I call it like a mini retirement, whatever you want to refer to it as, but basically taking some time off from work completely, not just like, oh, a couple of weeks, but like months, or I think in both of our cases, right, robert, years, several years.

Robert Hill: 2:16

Yeah, yeah, it's been a couple of years now.

Erin Gray: 2:18

Yeah. So do you want to share with the audience? Like how did you come about? Did you even know? Like was it an evolution for you of wanting to take off, or were you just like a hard stop? Like I got to do something different?

Robert Hill: 2:32

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I feel like maybe it was a little bit of both. Honestly, I I started my first business when I was 16 years old, so I got. I got started pretty young. I feel like I had been fortunate enough to really figure out a couple of things that I really was passionate about at a really young age. I picked up a camera for the first time when I was 12. And it was kind of just I don't know, it just flowed so naturally. I loved it so much. And then when I was 16, I was like I could. I was a busboy at TGI Fridays and I was like I'm done with this. This sucks, quit my job. And I was like what am I going to do? And I was immediately I was like, oh well, your camera, like you could totally make money with that. So I started my business really young and I, I think when the mini retirement kind of came about and that even that term is pretty new for me I didn't think about it like that when this happened.

Robert Hill: 3:29

But I think I had wanted for a long time. I had had a bit of a dream, and the dream initially was to do kind of the van life thing I'm. I've always been a big adventurer. Growing up on the East Coast, I didn't quite have the opportunity to adventure in the way that I really wanted to, and so when I was in my early twenties, I moved to the West Coast. My whole world opened up, and it was at that time I was like man, van life would just be so awesome. The initial idea was I would run my business while doing van life, like I would travel around, I would shoot and I would do the thing, and I know a lot of people who've done that. So that was the initial idea.

Robert Hill: 4:09

But I think, as that evolved over time and as life kind of the stresses of life just slowly expanded and slowly grew and compounded onto another, it kind of just came to the point where I'd had a really really deep and very intense personal awakening back in 2016. And that kind of following. That was like several really hard years for me. And just when I was getting my feet under me again, covid hit, and so it was. It was just like another complete blow that required so much pivoting, so much changing. You know, everything that I was carrying emotionally was coming up and it kind of just got to the breaking point. My, my business was stressed, my relationship was stressed, my inner world was stressed, like in so many facets of my life, it was just stress, and so I think that that was the catalyst. So it was a bit of an evolution. Over time.

Robert Hill: 5:11

It was like I really wanted to take time off, and I think that was part of it as well was just thinking of how, you know a lot of people, a lot of people, when they finish high school, they go to college and like, yeah, college, you know, I would guess, for a lot of people I didn't spend very much time in college A lot of people go to college and some people are like pretty serious and they, like you know, buckle down and they're like I'm going to get a degree. A lot of people go and they just party right. Some people maybe don't go to college, they maybe take a leap year and they take time off. I just never took any time off, and so I think that part of what was coming up for me when everything kind of came to a head was the realization that I continuously perpetuate this idea that I have to constantly be serving people, that I have to constantly be working. And it's funny now diving into human design and seeing all that plays into part.

Robert Hill: 6:09

But I think another part of it as well was you know, I think that our bodies, and even our subconscious, they are, of course, always trying to communicate to us, and mine had come to the point where it was literally communicating to me in the form of words, where I just kept in this in the last season of life before I left. I just kept saying I don't want to work, I don't want to work, I don't want to work, I don't want to work, I don't want to work, I don't want to work. I was telling everybody I just don't want to work, like. But I felt like I had to and I was stuck in having to work. And then I finally just decided to stop working and scary as hell to do at first, but the most liberating thing I think I've ever done. I thought it was going to be for six months and it ended up lasting about three years and it turned into a lot more than just the living van life for a couple months and yeah now.

Robert Hill: 7:13

It's definitely something that I'm prioritizing on a regular basis to make happen.

Erin Gray: 7:17

Yeah, I think that you know, when you say like I don't want to work, I don't want to work Like we, if we aren't tuned in which I was not tuned in for a long time there are those little whispers, right, it was like you know, and I'm curious what was going on. I'm curious what was it for you, you know, but it was just like this we go from going, going, going to like burnout to like way past burnout, right, like, not even to the point of like, ok, a couple of weeks is going to do me some good, like I literally need, like complete and utter downtime. Not even think because you literally have to almost like rewire your system from that Like, because it's such a, it's such a habitual thing. I want to know if this was you felt like this for you. But it's like it's such a habitual thing for me to think about work. Right, you talk about like you'd work since you were, you know, 16, or you picked up a camera when you were 12, like I started.

Erin Gray: 8:12

I asked my parents the other day. I was like, when did I start working? It's like, oh, when they were 12, I was like, why did I do that? You know, and it was for, it was for the money, right, it was so that I could have things. That when my parents told me, you know, either they couldn't, you know, afford it that I could go and buy the things that I wanted to, and so much so that, like, just like you, like, I never took time off, I never, even when I was in college, I was that person who was super serious in college, right, like I'm going to go to medical school and I'm going to take, you know, 16 hours and I'm going to work 40 hours a week.

Erin Gray: 8:42

And just like you look back on it, it's just like what were you rushing towards? You know, yeah, no doubt. And and so like literally giving ourselves the, the break. That two week vacation, a month vacation, is not I don't know what you felt like, but for me, like that was not going to do it for me, because there was so much that I needed, like never had not worked, you know.

Robert Hill: 9:11

Yeah, yeah, I think I think I also, on top of the not working. I think I've been pretty tuned in from a young age that, like I really love doing what I want to do and I don't want to do what I don't want to do. And so in crafting my business, I really crafted my business around that idea. I really crafted my business around like what do I really want my life to be? And that involved traveling a lot.

Robert Hill: 9:42

I was traveling so much. I was all over the world, I was in the craziest places, shooting some of the craziest stuff I could have ever imagined, and so it was like this weird place that I found myself where I was. I was, you know, there's a part of me that was just like man you should be so grateful. Like look at all the privilege and all the opportunity and all the good things that you have that all these other people aren't getting. And like how dare you, you know, think that you need a break, how dare you need to rest? But it's like I had literally taken what I thought was my dream life and I made it my business, I made it my job. And that's where, yeah, it was like I and I think burnout as well.

Robert Hill: 10:24

Burnout I've thought a lot about burnout in the last several years because I feel like I've gone through multiple burnouts. I almost wonder if burnout is just required. It's like part of the creative process, almost to some degree. But I I've thought a lot about how, the way that I've taken this, in the way that I've conceptualized this, is that burnout.

Robert Hill: 10:46

When people talk about it, they often talk about it in this very one dimensional way. They talk about it in terms of work, like you're working too much, yeah, and by that when I say work even, I mean like with a job, right. But for me and I think it's taken me several years to really be able to like process and work through some things to be able to see this clearly but my burnout wasn't just because of my business. It was because of so many different areas of my life in which I was having to work so much to upkeep all of it and maintain and make it all work, or tried to make it all work together. And what I didn't realize was and I even it's it's funny because I look back now on, like certain people that even pointed it out to me and it's like it was so mental for me at the time that it didn't make any sense, but it ultimately was.

Robert Hill: 11:41

I was just trying to control so many things that like it was like there the walls couldn't expand, like there was too much stuff, you know, and and then the crumbling happened and so it was like partly a crumbling because of burnout, because of so many different areas in my life, while also needing a break and just needing to like what if you just didn't work for a long period of time that led to it all?

Erin Gray: 12:09

which is like do not compute.

Erin Gray: 12:10

Do not compute to like the Western society right, like that is like a fucking crazy idea that because we have, you know, built this idea around, like whether it's work or it's your business, like you're just going to work and work, it's just like this constant climbing that we feel like we have to do versus more so like nature, like we ebb and we flow, and you know, I call it like always on, always connected. Right, it's just like every single part of our life we're trying to go like 90 miles an hour and literally like it is not a sustainable thing that we can do. I'm curious for you if you felt a lot of proving energy. I know I did, like, and I had those same sentiments of like I I can't, like there was almost shame around Saying what I felt because, like you just said, like I should be so grateful, like people are, this is what people want out of their life like why aren't you happy? What is wrong with you? And so it almost like Made it last even longer because I didn't Say what I was actually feeling or I didn't reach out for help because I was afraid or Concerned that someone would judge me, which I was judging myself.

Erin Gray: 13:25

Right that I want to time off. I wanted time to just be, and it's okay, like we judge, like, oh, it's okay for you to have a hard time, but it's not okay for you to have our hard time, you know? Um, yeah, and so For for me, I felt like there was a lot of proving energy that I was doing like I have to keep going. I've, you know, come this far, like lots of that versus Now it's just like if the body's like I'm, I need a rest, I'm gonna rest. You know, it's just like dropping that ego part totally.

Robert Hill: 14:00

Yeah, I mean I there definitely was a lot of proving energy, as I've meditated on that a lot over the over the last several years. I Think that they're. I had a little bit of a unique Kind of experience with that because, on one hand, there was absolutely like a Feeling that I needed to prove myself, and a lot in my business, a lot of like the actions I took, the things I did, the pressure I had on myself For so long was because I felt like I needed to prove something. At the same time, I think I was in a little bit of a unique situation where when I first started my business, it was right when Instagram launched, like literally Instagram had been around for maybe I Bet no more than a year. So give us like.

Erin Gray: 14:53

HYs for you. So Instagram was like what 20? I don't know what 2013? I have no idea 2010. I don't know um Instagram.

Robert Hill: 15:02

I believe Instagram launched I could be wrong with this, but 2012 is when I okay, so you are.

Erin Gray: 15:08

How old? You are how old at that time?

Robert Hill: 15:10

I'm 22 years old okay, okay, yeah.

Robert Hill: 15:15

Instagram launched, I had a friend who was like yo, like, you're a photographer, you should jump on Instagram. Like that's where you know you would thrive. So I jumped on Instagram and it just made sense to me or at the time it made sense to me. Now it's like what does any of this mean? But it made a lot of sense and it felt good and so, like, I just really started to pump into Instagram and my work just really started spreading and really started blowing up. And so I grew up on the East Coast, it it.

Robert Hill: 15:48

I Was in a small town. Like most of my life I was a small town kid and I started my business, started posting on Instagram. All of a sudden, I'm getting thousands of followers, sometimes a day. Like it was just rapidly growing. And within eight months of my business which, like, was rapidly growing, like I mean, I had so many bookings within the first Year to two years of my business that I was immediately like I have to quit my job. Like I can't. Like I can't do both. Like it's not possible. And so, within about eight months of running my business, I got booked for my first international shoot and and then Matt just took off like wildfire, like in terms of traveling.

Robert Hill: 16:31

And within about a year, my, my wife we had got married the year prior, in 2012 we kind of decided, like, let's just sell everything, you go travel and I'll shoot, and we'll just go travel because we can. And that just took it all, like, to the next level. It just amplified from there. So then we were traveling for a full year. I'm shooting all over the place. Then we end up moving to the West Coast. The travel and everything kept going. So I kind of got almost slingshot into the spotlight a bit, where I had all of a sudden Tens of thousands of people following me on Instagram. I'm, I'm Working with pretty high-end clients making more money than anyone else I knew in in photography at least and it was just like what's going on? How is this all happening and how can I possibly keep up? And there was no keeping up. It was. The analogy I sometimes will use is like if you're ever yeah, I'll just tell you this story.

Robert Hill: 17:39

It's just funny to me and my buddy were when we were young. We decided me and two friends we decided we were going to sketch behind someone's car, which basically is being on a skateboard holding on to like a rope or holding on to the car behind the car. So my buddy's driving me and my best friend are on skateboards, holding ropes that are attached to the car. We're going like 25 miles an hour probably and I see my Material.

Robert Hill: 18:05

Oh yeah, yeah. I see my buddy start to swerve and I'm like, oh no, and he Bails, hits the ground, is just absolutely wrecked and in my brain I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to save him. And so I decided to jump off my board and you can't just jump off a skateboard at 25 miles an hour and so it became one of those like you're all of a sudden running faster than you actually can run and I just like Slid into cement and into rocky cement. It was brutal, but that's like kind of the analogy that I think of with this, because I felt like what I ended up getting launched into it was so much more than what I was In energetic integrity being able to.

Erin Gray: 18:48

I didn't have the capacity to a stand that is the word I was gonna use is like the capacity right, Like we want these things, but like do we actually have the capacity Totally? Yes like do we have the staff, do we have the nervous system to handle it? Do we have, you know, just all of the areas of our life to be able to handle the level that we grow to so quickly?

Erin Gray: 19:11

you know, and yeah and if we don't right like something's got to give and yeah, it's, it's in the, in the other word that comes to mind is like we're like swept away almost in a way. I don't know if that, if that's what it feels like right, but it's just like you're just like kind of just wherever, because the systems aren't in place, the, the staff for you, the support for you, just like all of it, isn't there to support you as you, as you grow.

Robert Hill: 19:38

Yep, that's exactly what happened. There was no, there was not enough capacity. I think it's funny. We live in a culture where it seems like Every week online, I see something that's like here's how to go viral or like here's the formula, we figured it out, and it's like do you actually want to go viral? Do you actually want what that brings for your life? Like, I think we think that we do. Yeah, but, like you said, like and it's funny because I've had to learn these things like my nervous system did not have the capacity for that, and I think that that's where the proving energy came in was like, once I was propelled into that place, I gotta keep it up, it was like, oh my god, I have to keep this up.

Robert Hill: 20:18

And that's where it was like go, go, go, go go all the time my mind was so. I had no control over my mind whatsoever. I had no. Yeah, it was just constant, frantic, constant stress, constant anxiety, constant overwhelm, and I had even reached out for help. That was. The other thing is I. I invested so much money and help and there was.

Robert Hill: 20:43

It's funny how, like, I didn't actually start to understand the nervous system until it all Got wrecked until it all came back to like rock bottom that I actually was like oh, this is how you build capacity.

Erin Gray: 20:56

This is what we need to be doing.

Robert Hill: 20:58

I'm Because asking for help didn't didn't help at the time. I don't think that there was help I could have had.

Erin Gray: 21:04

I was gonna ask you to like, because money is some of our favorite conversations too. So did you. Did you feel like you had the capacity to handle the amount of wealth that you generated as quickly as you did?

Robert Hill: 21:18

I think, I think, had I would have, I would have managed it completely different.

Erin Gray: 21:22

Yeah yeah, and and also right like looking back now, like I'm sure you probably look at it from a place like but I had to. I had to go through that now To be, in order to be able to build what I'm building now from such a different energetic space totally, totally, I mean it's.

Robert Hill: 21:47

I'm so grateful because I think I'm a very deeply anchored into the truth now that, like we go through hardship in our lives because you know, sometimes it's a year, sometimes it's 10 years, however long it takes for you to get through the thick of it, all of that stuff's happening because it's setting you up for the next season.

Robert Hill: 22:09

I fully believe that and I'm not even I don't believe I'm being fully in the next season yet, or if I am, I'm on the just the starting cusp of like starting to finally gain traction again.

Robert Hill: 22:17

Right, but I think that's so hard to see when you're in the thick of it because, as somebody who didn't have the capacity for all the things that were going on it's, I think that there is an element to it where you start to I mean every bit of conditioning, every bit of toxic Shadow that you have going on inside of you, it starts to emerge and it and it comes out in so much self judgment.

Robert Hill: 22:51

So I didn't even I think I did feel a lot of guilt at times because I was looking around and like I mean I flew first class on every flight, I traveled a hundred thousand miles a year to Almost to the continents, like I was all over the place living these lavish situations, and I think there was guilt that came with that. But I think, even more than that, it was how much I beat myself up internally Through that process because I didn't have the capacity and because I didn't understand, oh you're just dysregulated right now, like, and I didn't know how to regulate. Luckily, I found tools as I went, but but the tools that I needed at the time were not the tools that I had. And even if I had the tools, I don't think that it didn't happen like that because it wasn't supposed to.

Erin Gray: 23:40

Yeah, yes, it was all supposed to happen and I think you know, like you were saying about, yes, everything happens exactly is how it's supposed to. And like, even if you did have the tools, like, did you actually? Like you were going 90 miles a year? Like the tools can only be as much as what we're willing to receive, and you know what I mean. Like, if we're just in this, like Gosh, what comes to mind is like a dust storm. You know what I mean. It's just like it's just this, this thing that has just taken on its own persona or own Identity. Right, and I think I don't think a lot of people, or enough people, are talking about. You know, you mentioned, like going viral or you know all of this stuff.

Erin Gray: 24:21

It's like, but the like at our identity, like we need to change our identity at that level, like that's what has to change first, and then everything else is like a byproduct because of that Versus. I don't know if you but like. For me it was like that back-asswards way right. And then maybe like, oh, okay, got it now right, like okay. Yeah, I've got to change my identity. Got it now right? Like okay.

Robert Hill: 24:47

Yeah.

Erin Gray: 24:48

I've got to change who I am as a person. Right, versus Thinking that I'm gonna fix all of these external things. This is what I mean. Yeah, this is our culture, right? Like I mean, I don't have TV, but when I go to the gym it's like constantly pharmaceutical ads or there's. They're telling you there's something wrong with you. You know, it's just like we live in a society of, like this is what's wrong with you, this is what's wrong with you, this is the quick fix, this is how you get better.

Erin Gray: 25:14

Versus like I mean I think Alex Hermosi said it, he was like you can't make money on Meditation. I mean I don't necessarily think that's entirely true, but like you can go get an anxiety pill. Meditation isn't, you know. And so this, this whole, which I think, as a society, I think we are changing right, like that shit's not working anymore. Right, like all of the, all of the drugs, all of the outside external things we've been trying to pacify ourselves with, it's not fucking cutting the mustard anymore. And so you know, really doing that, the deep work that takes time, that isn't, you know, in our society, sexy, or you know, and that requires us to be really vulnerable, I think is, I think we're on the, the cusp, or the tip I should, or when I say tip at the beginning, right of going up, yeah, so yeah, yeah, I think so too, and I, you know, one of the things that there's a couple things that came to mind as you were sharing there that that One, the thing that really started to shift all of this for me.

Robert Hill: 26:32

There's a guy in the business world who's really well known Most people if you've been in business for a while, you've probably heard of him. His name's Simon Sinek and he has a book called Start with why, and when I saw Simon's TED Talk and I started reading his book, it was at that moment that I started to ask that question of like, why do I do what I do? And being that I did not have an answer for that, I could not answer that quickly. I could not answer that clearly, going down that rabbit hole, which is an endless rabbit hole, looking back, I'm like, if I would have just known then that, like, if you can't answer that question now, like take a pause, like take a complete pause because, man, but that ultimately was kind of the catalyst to this entire crumbling that I experienced, because I just didn't. I understood, I knew the importance of what he was saying, but I couldn't answer the question. And I think another point that when you were just talking. Something that came up as well was when you were talking about the dust storm, something that I did not.

Robert Hill: 27:50

I had very little information about the nervous system years back and now it's like at the forefront for me in terms of what it is that I'm working with people on or what I'm sharing upfront and really like bringing into the awareness of other people, because it's not a very popular topic. I mean, I think once you start to dive into it, you're almost like whoa, there's a lot of people talking about it, you know, but if you don't know, you don't see it. Or at least that was my experience. And the thing that I did not realize. I went really deep About a year and a half, two years ago. I went incredibly deep into studying polyvagal theory and the things that I didn't realize were that your entire perception is filtering through neuroception first. So everything that you experience is coming through your nervous system first and then it's going into your head. So, like all the stories you have, like story follows state, the stories that you have about life and about yourself are ultimately going to follow the state of your nervous system. So if you're beating yourself up or if you are really negative towards the outside world. It's just a sign that your nervous system is dysregulated. And the other piece that really just hit me like a ton of bricks was that when your nervous system is dysregulated, you can't take in new information, and so you can't actually even if somebody was to give you the knowledge or the information or the awareness you can't actually capture it because of how dysregulated you are.

Robert Hill: 29:30

And I think one of the funniest things for me in regards to all of that was my journey with human design, because I knew of human design a decade ago. I originally learned of it a decade ago and it kept coming back into my awareness Like so synchronistically, in this wild way, wild way. And it wasn't until I started to actively regulate my nervous system that human design finally started to make sense where I went oh my God, like it's right there. It's been right there the whole time.

Robert Hill: 30:03

And yeah, I just don't think that there's a lot of people that talk about the difference between us living in a society of people who focus on time management versus living in a world of people that focus on energy management, because energy management changes the whole game how it is that you're actually able to step in and create what you want to create in your business, because you only have so much time but you're not bound by time, like time is infinite when you have the energy to do all the things you want to do and it moves in the exact way that you really want it to.

Robert Hill: 30:37

When you actually feel grounded, when you feel regulated, when you feel at home with yourself. And so, yeah, going back to what you said, I am so, so grateful for all of the complete shitstorm that came at me and that sent me on this incredibly shame filled spiral down of just really looking at all of my shadow, because it has changed my life in so many ways that now I'm just like, oh, I just need to get down here and armor up a little bit Now. We're ready to get back in Now you can see it.

Erin Gray: 31:15

You were saying and I don't know if you said these exact words, but like you're sympathetic in your parasympathetic state, right, like your Pauli Vigil theory and you know I always just talk about it same thing Like we're all, most of us are in a survival based state, right, like in the sense of like, literally fight, flight, freeze, spawn, right, and this is our normal state of being, that a lot of us exist in. And then we want to know, like you're saying, well, I don't understand why you know, like, talk about, like I did it back afterwards, like, of course, like with you know, now that I'm building my business, I see people ask questions and I'm like you can totally see, right, oh, they just are not. They're not in that creative state yet. Right, like, they're still in that survival state which I used to and, don't get me wrong, like I go back into it. Right, but like where I'm building my business from now, which is very much so creativity, right, like, and regulated for the most part. Right, like I flip my lid, right I'm a human Sure and where my existence and my being is is not from that survival based of. Like you don't, you don't ask questions or you don't. When I say you don't ask questions like the questions that I used to ask, I don't even think of asking those questions anymore because that it just was showing me like, oh, how much it was survival versus. You just ask different questions. You are a different person when you have a regulated nervous system and I'm so glad you said that, because I think the coaching industry right Like, I kind of came into it.

Erin Gray: 32:59

We're going there. If you're okay with that, we're just going there. Yeah, you know, I at the time, like, like how you said about your business, right Like I needed a very logical rational because I wasn't ready to receive the message of being in my body, right Like, wasn't ready to receive it. And after I took time off and I saw how dysregulated I was and shit wasn't, you know, like you said, like you kept seeing human design, like stuff kept popping up for me, but I wasn't ready to receive the message or be with it until I took time off and I'm like, okay, right, like, now everything is raw and you know, in your face there's nowhere to hide here it all is is when you know the being in my body is what I call it. Right Like, really started doing that somatic work and, like you said, I don't think a lot of, I don't think a lot of the coaching industry talks about that, because I don't think a lot of the coaching industry actually is in their body, right?

Erin Gray: 34:06

It's like the same thing that I say about money. We can talk about it from theory but, like, how many of us actually have a good relationship with money? It's one thing to talk about it in theory, it's another to embody it, live it, breathe it, be it, you know.

Robert Hill: 34:21

Totally. Yeah, I, that's such a big topic. I really do think that you are right about the coaching industry. I really feel like I feel like it's in my experience I have worked with so many different coaches and you know, being somebody who I've been into, you know the personal growth, self-help space since very early on like I was in mesh in religion as a kid.

Robert Hill: 35:05

But even with religion, like religion is still a part of the personal growth space. It's like it's just a, it's like another thing, right? So? And I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, dabbling, I was, I was in it deep and I was journaling and I was, like you know, going through the motions but also like on my own personal journey with it all as well and like getting in deep conversations with friends from an early age. And so I've spent so much time in so many different areas of the personal health and self-help space and it's funny how my journey of crumbling and even leading to a mini retirement, how much it coincided with me becoming a coach, because when I first started my business and everything took off, I all of a sudden had so many people reaching out to me asking me to teach them.

Robert Hill: 35:56

And I was like cool, no other way to make money, let's do this. I'm an open book I'll share. But I, what I didn't realize until I started doing it was like I don't have a clue what I'm doing. I don't have a clue how to teach what I'm doing. I don't have a clue to truly explain how I got my business to where it is. And it's like I could feel it, but I didn't. I had no words for it and I think that that you know, starting with teaching and starting with mentoring, I then learned about coaching and I was like, oh, coaching, awesome, like that's a very big flip of a switch.

Robert Hill: 36:33

Mentoring and coaching is very different. The difference of I'm going to tell you what to do or I'm going to give you advice, versus I'm going to coach you, I'm going to draw it out of you, I'm going to draw your truth out and help you start to take your own steps. That was a really really hard shift for me when I started making that shift. But when I did and when I started really studying coaching, it was so mental and with where I was at and how dysregulated I was, it just I think it really amplified a lot of things, because I was constantly trying to figure out the answers. I was constantly trying to figure out what's the right way to do something, and, of course, trauma is involved with all of this. Like you know, conditioning and trauma, and all of that's playing a part with all this, because, of course, your nervous system but yeah, it's, it's, I think.

Robert Hill: 37:19

Something that I am so grateful for when it comes to that, though, is I've heard this idea in the business world a lot over the years of people who talk about you know, when you're building a business and that sort of thing. Like what pisses you off? Like what do you really like? What are you going after? That? You're just pissed about, and I think, as a coach, like that's something I'm pissed off about, and I hope I don't ever stop being pissed off about it, because I know the pain that it causes when you are, when you believe that you just don't have the right mindset. Like that is just wrecking, and if I, if there's just one thing I just am going to continue to pass on to people, it's like you're, there's nothing wrong with your mindset whatsoever, it's just your nervous system. Your nervous system is dysregulated. Thus, your mindset is going to be all over the place and you're not going to be consistent, you're not going to be disciplined, you're not going to be able to, and I think, even bigger than that In this whole journey I've been on, when I first jumped in and I studied business and I did mentoring and then I did coaching and all this it was so much from a psychological perspective, and over the last three or four years that has just expanded so, so expansively to realizing the nervous system, starting to be able to understand human design and see more of a trifecta that I work with personally now, which which is that there is a psychological aspect to it, but more so than that, there's a somatic and there's an energetic aspect, and you really need all three, and I just don't see a lot of people talk about this, but you really do need to understand your energy, you need to understand your nervous system and you need to understand psychology and persuasion and all of the things that go into to building a business.

Robert Hill: 39:14

You know, because if you just have the mindset part which is the one that everyone thinks that they need but it's funny you're just missing two core aspects that aren't actually going to get you to where you want to be that aren't going to get you to a place of lifelong sustainability, lifelong passionate, expansive growth in the thing that you're creating, or at least in my experience, that's been the truth. So, yeah, the coaching industry, I think, is definitely pushing that.

Erin Gray: 39:44

I agree with that and, like I wrote down two things I want to say is one learning about human design. Like you and I had offline conversation about like how pivotal it has been, you know, for us, and like how can you not? I mean, and I think you can go down the rabbit hole of of human design and I'm not that type of coach and I for sure am like your strategy and authority and like highlighting the things right and well, actually three things now. One is we can get so hyped up in the very minute details of human design that we don't go back to talk about our energy right, like, what is your strategy and authority Like before? We want to go down all of the rabbit holes and like all of the things with human design, like, are you actually following your strategy and authority? Full stop period, right?

Erin Gray: 40:41

Like in the matters and I think, with the, with the, even with, I mean, we can do this with human design, right, Like we're in the human design craze right now. Right, it's like all of this, this information, but it's like we haven't even fucking, you know, embodied our strategy and authority. What do we talk about? Circuits and channels, you know, like we've got to like, oh we have to own, our strategy and our authority.

Erin Gray: 41:06

Along with that, I want to say learning about having a defined head in Ashna, of course, little coaching took me like in a fucking just circle, right, because it kept me in my head so much. And once I learned that, it was almost like such a huge aha for me because it was like, oh my goodness, like this somewhat explains like it took me out of my body. You're asking me in my head, right, I already have that wide split that is so easy for me to do already, right? And so I just want to say to each of you listening, no matter if you have a defined head or Ashna or not like just obviously it comes back to the body, but like knowing, like where are you defined, where are you undefined? Talking about like what Robert is saying is like that energy because that was huge for me of like learning about that and being like okay, right, like that's not how I need to be making decisions, I don't need to be explaining myself, because that further takes me right back up into my head. And then, in regards to like coaching and somatic work and it's like I wrote down it it there's not a lot of us that are willing to be really vulnerable.

Erin Gray: 42:21

I remember a coach that I was following. She had had a conversation with Ryan Daniel Moran and he had said something about. He was asking her something, and she was like, oh, I still have all of that. I still feel all of that and think the thoughts that you think I just do it behind closed doors and I'm like who's talking about this stuff? Right, like I don't think we need to. You know, in the middle of something, I mean processing something. Yes, you do need time to process it. You don't have to share it with the world. And also, more of us need to see what does that process actually look like? Right, like how do you process, how do you get in your body, what does that actually look like?

Erin Gray: 43:05

And that, I think, allows a level of vulnerability that I don't think a lot of, maybe in the coaching industry, that many of us are willing to be because it's messy, right, it's the messy middle, it's it's going to look different for me than it will for you. And like, are we willing to just be like you just got to try shit out and like what works for you and what doesn't? And I don't think that a lot of us are, like you say, talking about it, being willing to be vulnerable, to share, like, yeah, like I'm in the thick of it I think so many, so many coaches come from like that, like I'm the coach and you're the client, versus like no, I'm going to sit here with you and you know what. I might cry with you too, because human to human, this is some tough shit that you're going through. You know what I mean, like hand on heart. You know, and I don't know if a lot of of the industry is willing to do that. You know, don't makes me cry right now, I'm just thinking about it.

Robert Hill: 44:02

Yeah, you know I can't tell you how many times I've cried with clients on a call. Yeah, but because of what I and this wasn't. This wasn't because of a coach or anything that taught me this, this was just because of where I was at. I always thought that this isn't what I should be doing.

Erin Gray: 44:22

Oh, I've heard that so many times, right.

Robert Hill: 44:24

Like is that not crazy? Yes, Is that not freaking crazy?

Erin Gray: 44:28

And I judge myself, because I thought something's wrong with me, because literally, I would sit across from people and I would cry with them because I'm like, because you're not you're, you're supposed to, you're supposed to take care of all your shit before you get on the call. It's like you don't get to take care of the human. The human goes with you everywhere.

Robert Hill: 44:45

Yeah, yeah, and I mean that's really all that we're trying to do is be more human.

Robert Hill: 44:49

Like you know it's been interesting. I love that you said what you just did, because something that I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I was like you know just something that I don't have a clear path with where I'm gonna go with this, so I'm just going to kind of start spewing, um, but I, um, I think that there is. When it comes to coaching, I think everyone's in a different place, everyone needs a little bit of a different thing, and I think that that has its own unique challenge to it. And I say that because the thing I want to be aware of going forward in learning what I've learned is it's very easy for us, just as humans I think this is just natural to being human that once we start to understand something, we can start speaking the language of that thing, but people don't understand that language.

Robert Hill: 46:04

When I talk about dysregulation, had I heard that word three years ago, I would have no clue what that meant whatsoever, and so there's an element of it that I want to be really aware going forward in really holding the role of somebody who is coaching or guiding or helping in this way, of how I think it's. Necessarily, I need to come down to your level. I think it's more so. I just need to build a ladder to get you up to mine, and I think the thing that I have not, or the thing that I have learned in the last several years in exploring all of this, is getting into your body is not necessarily a comfortable thing whatsoever, and if I ever alluded to that, I am sorry because, that is not the case.

Robert Hill: 47:08

I didn't think you did, but it's just something that now it's like what would I tell myself 10 years? If I could go back 10 years? What would I tell myself? In the middle of my mini-retirement? I decided that I had this urge. It's something I've kind of wanted to do for a long time, but I decided to hike the Pacific Crest Trail, so I hiked from Mexico to Canada. It took me just over five months to do it all, and it was just before I went on trail that I started to really learn about the body and getting in the body and all that, and this was kind of like.

Robert Hill: 47:44

I almost felt like the trail was a bit of an initiation to that, an initiation into like we're going to go get really in the body. We're about to do something that's not going to be fun necessarily, or not going to be easy, or something that's going to be very uncomfortable and it was wildly uncomfortable in so many ways but also so, so incredible, and I think there's a lot of different ways to get in the body. However, I think when I did the trail, it's so funny how often in my life I think I'm done with this. I'm hoping, hoping this pattern is done. But I have this tendency to be like oh man, I just finished some hard shit. Like who? I guess things are going to be easy now. Like I just get rocked again by something so much harder. And so now I'm just really trying to maintain like we're just going to continuously do harder and harder stuff.

Robert Hill: 48:39

And that was my mentality when I got off trail, because I was just like man. I am in the best shape of my life, I've been in my body, I've done it check, good to go, everything's going to be sweet. Oh Jesus, if only I knew. And I genuinely, looking back, I feel like I did this really hard thing of walking across the country with weight on my back to prepare myself to do something so much radically harder. And what that was was I ended up when I got off trail. I was incredibly dysregulated. I didn't understand the terminology at the time, but that was the experience I had. It was constant stress, constant manic anxiety, overwhelm, triggered all the time, like many times a day, getting triggered by so many different things. And I would say, if there's a word that I would use to notice what or to explain what dysregulation is, it's reactivity.

Robert Hill: 49:36

Are you reactive to what's going on around you or are you responding like from a grounded place? Responding from a grounded place, you're going to be more regulated, maybe just tapping into sympathetic, but if you're reactive, it's like you're all over the place, right. And so I, at that point in time, I started experiencing immense dysregulation, didn't understand what was going on, started to panic, started to freak out. Oh my God, I don't know what to do. And I ended up reaching out to a woman who I had met four years prior, very synchronistically, very randomly, in the middle of nowhere in Italy, and I did a session with her back when I met her, and I couldn't, even at the time couldn't explain what it is that we did, but she's the only person when I really like scanned out, of everybody I've ever come in contact with. Who do I reach out to right now? She was the only person that my my beingness was like her. She, if she does. If she's not the person, she knows where to push you.

Robert Hill: 50:42

So I reached out to her and I started doing what is somewhat commonly referred to as conscious rebirthing, breath work, and it basically is the process of very expansively breathing for a very long period of time. So sessions are typically about two hours long and you're breathing all the way as high up as you can and then exhaling all the way as much as you can. And in that process of working with her, there was two really key things that she pointed out that were just absolutely mind blowing to me is one your life is only going to be expansive as much as your breath is expansive. So if your breath is not expansive, if you shallow breathe, it is going to reflect in your life. And why we shallow breathe is because we are simply controlling our breath. And so as we would get into these sessions, she would be able to tell and she would point out when I'm controlling my breath and every time that I had to go through whatever I had to go through internally to not no longer control my breath, to really like open my breath up when you breathe. And I find this so fascinating because I truly believe all of the answers to all of our problems are literally right in front of our face. You just can't see it. But when you breathe through your nose and as you expansively breathe for long periods of time, you activate your subconscious, you dive into the void of your subconscious and whatever's living down there is going to arise. It's going to arise in physical sensations or it's going to arise in energy, in emotion, in energy emotion.

Robert Hill: 52:19

And so I just didn't realize how much fear I was holding in my body and it's like, mentally I'm like I'm fearless. I just went through the Sierras Like I was 30 days in ice and snow with an ice axe, like I'm not fearful at all and oh, how wrong I was. And it's funny because you know, that is kind of the harsh reality that now, based off my experience, when I really talked to people about this stuff, it's like, yeah, the stuff that we're talking about, like if you really want to go do this thing let's say, build a business like if there's one thing that's going to bring all of your stuff to the surface, I find it's running a business, being married and having kids, and I don't have kids, so I don't have experience with that, but I just know, I was a kid, I understand, and so, yeah, it's like if you really want to excel in these things, it's eventually going to require you to deal with what's going on underneath, whether you want to or not, and if you don't, everything externally is going to just be so stressful and so chaotic or you're going to keep yourself at a certain level and you'll never break out to a level that you actually envision for yourself or actually deeply desire for yourself. And so, yeah, I think that that's what I am now starting to share with people is like, yeah, if you really want to fix your mindset, it's really fixing your nervous system.

Robert Hill: 53:50

And fixing your nervous system is going deeper, into what energy? What's the energetic charge that you hold in your body because of mostly what happened to you as a child in ways that you may realize. In a lot of ways you probably have no freaking clue, but then as well, just being a human, like being a human is an energetic exchange with an outside world, and that's not always easy, especially in the world we live in. So I think that that's a difficult thing that mentally doesn't necessarily make sense to people if they haven't had some sort of experience with it, and people discount it. But, yeah, it's not comfortable to get into your body.

Erin Gray: 54:32

Yeah, I think you know we and I said this before right, it's like we want the quick fix, but there is no quick fix. Right, like the stuff that has the staying power, the stuff that actually, when I say matters, what I mean is like helps you, right, like actually you transform things, is the stuff that takes you know time, you know breathwork, meditation, like I think playing, like playing for me was for sure I've done the breathwork and the EFT tapping, like those are probably two of my most ways that helped release. And also playing, because we have so many talk about being a child, right, like we have so many thoughts around our worth and our loveability and our deservedness, like we have to earn it, right. But when you go play like that brings talk about, brings up all the shit that you didn't even know exists.

Erin Gray: 55:31

It's like what I can just go play like, well, I didn't work today, I didn't, you know. Like, all of that stuff that's just like you said, simmering right there, it's there for us. And going back to, like you said, being regulated, let's like, are we aware of enough to see it? You know, I was going to say also is that you know everything. We didn't even you know talk about money. But, like, everything started to started off as a way to empower us. Right, like I think the coaching industry originally started off as a great way to empower us.

Erin Gray: 56:04

And I think a lot of us have gotten to that place where we have become disempowered, where I mean, I know I've done it. Right, like we, we look outside of us and we think someone else knows better than us. Right, versus, we are the ones with the answers, we are the ones that know what it feels like in our bodies and really tuning into that and trusting that above anyone, anyone else, right, and so, yeah, bringing it back to the body, I mean I love the when the body keeps score. It's just like, oh, I know what it's going to say. You know people are like, oh, I haven't had trauma. It's like if you're a human, you've had trauma right, because the way that Gabba or Mate talks about right, like it's just basically if you have denied yourself right Of who you are to, to get love from someone, to get approval like that is trauma, right?

Erin Gray: 57:00

Like that, that is the separation from ourselves. And so, you know, I used to, I mean, I totally thought before, you know, learning about money, trauma. I just was like, well, I had a good childhood. You know, whatever good is right, it's like not really, aaron. Like you grew up in a rather volatile house of your parents yelling at you or yelling, you know, just yelling in general, fighting all the time, you know, trying to to make sure that everyone was happy. Yes, of course, like we've all experienced it and whether we are aware of it or not, you know, that's, that's the thing.

Robert Hill: 57:37

Yeah, I think it's. I don't know. Sometimes I sometimes I wonder if, if the willingness to explore your trauma explore what's going on underneath. I wonder if people don't explore trauma because they don't have a reason to explore trauma, because if you're not somebody who's moving in a direction, if you're not actually trying to create something in your life that is better than what you currently have, not because right now isn't good enough, but because you're just moving.

Erin Gray: 58:35

You're expanding, you're growing, you're progressing right.

Robert Hill: 58:38

If you're not doing that, then ultimately you wouldn't have any reason to explore those things. And I wonder how much that plays a role in our society in why it is that trauma is not a very common thing to talk about and, like what you just said, it's like if you deny your trauma. I often find people won't deny their trauma as much as they want to deny your trauma, because they're comparing it to theirs, their unintegrated trauma, which I think is a whole other side of it. That's just like, wow, we're still back at square one, where we started. But yeah, I don't know. I think that that also plays a part in it.

Robert Hill: 59:24

Sometimes, as I've explored what it really means to be a coach and how to help people, I don't know if the answer is always that people need I don't know I'm back and forth on this right now, so don't hold me to this but sometimes I'm like maybe people don't always need nervous system dysregulation. I kind of want to be like yes, you do, but maybe sometimes people do just need a strategy because they're on their path of. You know, in this season of my life I know I just want to make more money. So just tell me how to make more money right.

Robert Hill: 59:57

It's kind of like well, I could give you a strategy to make more money and you could run with it and it will get you the results. But, like are you trying to make more money in the short term? Are you wanting to make like a lifelong thing? I have this conversation a lot of times with clients where it's like are you trying to work or are you trying to do your life's work? Because they are two quite different things, and I don't mean that in terms of you're supposed to know, you know what's the thing I'm going to do for the rest of my life. That's not what I'm talking about as much as like does what you do really fill you up or do you have an end game in mind?

Robert Hill: 1:00:28

I talked to some people who are like oh well, I've worked with a lot of photographers and I've talked with a lot of photographers that are like oh, you know, I think I'll run this for the next five years or maybe 10 years, and then I won't want to do it anymore. And I'm like cool, but you don't have to decide that right now. But like what are we really trying to do right here? Are we just trying to get short term games, or are we really trying to create sustainability? Yeah, I think it's a it's. It's just one of those looming questions that that only the person on the other end of the call would really know what they want.

Erin Gray: 1:01:03

Yeah, I think. I mean I think that I wrote down receiving right, like what are we at the capacity of? Just like I said, like four years ago was not ready to talk about being in my body, right, like, and I think going back to like normalizing it like I mean I joke, but like you know, what does it look like? It looks like crapping your pants, you know, or being on the toilet. It looks like sweating. It looks like it's like all of those non sexy things that, like, we don't want to talk about. It's just like that's the stuff that we haven't normalized yet, of like what it actually looks like, you know, and I just think that, like you're saying, I think I think coaching there's, like you're saying there's levels for everyone and also when, if you want long term, lasting effects, I think it's like one of those things of like getting into your body and really, really being able to.

Erin Gray: 1:02:05

When I say be at peace with my body, what I mean is like it's not a problem that I cry on the airplane anymore, like there was a point where I used to hide things, right, or I used to be afraid to show emotion when I was in my body, right, but that is now.

Erin Gray: 1:02:24

It's like there's there's no judgment of what I'm feeling, it's just, it's just feeling, right, there's no good or bad, right or wrong, it's just feeling. And I don't know if a lot of us are are talking about you know, like what does it look like? It looks fucking scary. I mean like I remember I would like break out in hives underneath my underarms when I was doing some of that deep money work, you know, but nobody, nobody tells you that when you look that stuff up, they're like oh, you must be allergic to this or that. It's just no one's saying like, yeah, could just be, you know, releasing some things that you've held on for 20 plus years, you know. And so I don't, I don't think there's enough of normalization that's the word I'm looking for to talk about. Talking about that.

Robert Hill: 1:03:11

Something that came up was you were saying that I found this to be so wildly fascinating. But when I hiked across the country, I was my first through hike I had ever done and I didn't know a whole lot about through hiking or the culture of through hiking. But what was so wild about that experience? I think a lot of people when they think about like oh my God, you hiked across the country, they're like wow, you must have seen just absolutely beautiful things and you know how courageous you had to have been to just stick it out and stay out there and do all the things. And sure, all of that's true to a degree. But what was most fascinating to me was the community, because when you're out there, I mean you know everyone's moving at a different speed, right?

Robert Hill: 1:04:01

And so some people you'll see once and you'll never see them again, but most people you typically fluctuate in a bubble and that bubble has a, I'd say, upwards of three weeks around it give or take, where, like, somebody could be three weeks behind or three weeks ahead, but all those people you're typically going to experience some amount of time with those people and so you meet a lot of people out there and it was so fascinating and just the most beautiful experience of community I've ever seen. Because, one, you're all heading in the same direction, which is really cool. Everyone's moving towards the same goal. Two, everybody wants everyone to succeed, like, everyone genuinely wants you to make it to the end and they genuinely care about you. They're checking in on you. If they got word that you're hurt or that you're having an issue, the next time they see you, that's immediately the first thing that they're asking, like hey, how's your Achilles or how's your knee or how's you know whatever? They're always willing to give whatever they can. Like it's such no, it's kind of funny because nobody wants to carry any extra weight. So everyone's always just like hey, you can have an extra bar or you can have you know this or whatever. It's so giving.

Robert Hill: 1:05:29

But, as well, everybody is so deeply regulated. Granted, there's definitely times where you're dysregulated because you're in a really sketchy situation and you see like what that means where ever. But everyone gets through right. You wake up in a new place, on a new horizon, every single day and you set off and by the end of the day you're so ridiculously proud of yourself and all of your friends that everyone is so deeply appreciative of one another and so regulated so in their bodies and through all of that, no one is hiding anything at all, like you know. You know if somebody's on their period. You know if somebody's shit their pants. You know if somebody just puked. You know if somebody's Achilles hurt. You know if somebody is running out of money. You know. You know everything, like everything's on the table and everyone is supporting everyone in the best way they can to try and make it to the end.

Robert Hill: 1:06:24

It's so it's so good. I'm doing another that's your height this year and I'm so stoked because it's just intoxicating. And I think that's part of what played into my journey of when I got off trail and you get thrown back into society and you're just immediately dysregulated. You're immediately thrown for a loop because you're like whoa, how do I go from that being so good into a world where nothing feels like it is working the way that it should be working, and not from a mindset perspective of like, oh, you're being negative, ned, but like, just, it's not really a community of people. We're also scared to talk. We're also scared to share what's really going on or to be emotional or to be in our bodies or whatever. And so I think that that's where this stuff like human design, community and you know, nervous system regulation and trauma and all of these things I think it's going to be so beautiful to see how this evolves in the next several decades, to see like, does this actually continue in the way that it feels like it's moving, and expand into a more global community of people who actually are opening up and talking, not just privately behind doors, but publicly as well, because I think I don't know.

Robert Hill: 1:07:37

It's like I have to remind myself of this all the time. It's like people are looking for answers. They may just not be saying it and they're just waiting for somebody to finally say it. You know, and there's such a beautiful humility that comes from getting in your body, because you realize the vastness of who you are. You see, you see what you really are, and that's humbling Like you can't. You can't perpetuate this egoic, capitalistic society in the way that we have. When everyone's in their bodies, it just it doesn't work.

Erin Gray: 1:08:13

You didn't say this, but you said it as one of my biggest things is like being in nature. I mean, if you want to talk about, you know, completely minimizing or the ego, right, I mean you sit and you look at mountains, you realize, or you sit on a surfboard in the ocean, you realize how little you really are, right, like we are literally. When I say that, I mean like we're all special and we're not special, right, but like we, we are a blip on this radar screen of like fast moving time and you really get to have a perspective. I think nature that's this is my belief you know, like nature gives us a perspective that we cannot get anywhere else of, like you're saying, you know you're everyone's having to do the trail, everyone's having their own, it is you and yourself and nature and that is it you know. And so I think that you know, with the community, like you're saying community, and like being in nature, like we have somehow not prioritized how powerful being in nature is for us.

Robert Hill: 1:09:26

Yeah, extended time in nature as well.

Erin Gray: 1:09:31

Yes, thank you, yes.

Robert Hill: 1:09:33

A hike is dope, super cool, wow, I did a hike and I saw a waterfall, but like immersing, and I think that plays a part in it too, because I think that, I think you know it's so funny that the way that we've been conditioned and built into this society is to think that nature is that thing out there, that nature is mountains and trees and rivers and waterfalls, but like, this is nature, yep, you are nature, yep. It's partly where I think getting in your body is an experience with nature. Nature provides that If you go get in nature, it's going to force you to be in your body and realize, oh, I'm just part of this whole thing, right, but I've realized, especially since getting off trail. It was like this very stark realization and I have even experienced this. I've been off trail for close to, I guess, a year and a half now, but I've even realized how this has played into my own life, where we are so deeply scared of nature.

Robert Hill: 1:10:39

We are so deeply scared of nature. People don't sure going and taking time off, doing a mini-retirement, hiking a long trail, whatever the case is right, there's these fears that come up because of you. Know, how would I let go of my responsibilities for that amount of time? How would I let go of making money for that amount of time? How would I let go of all of these things? Right, and I get that. That is a part to play and some people don't necessarily have the privilege or the opportunity to do that. Totally get that.

Robert Hill: 1:11:13

And I think the biggest question is but how scared are you of getting into nature? Like, what role is that playing in this? Because I can't tell you how many times I was asked like people's questions are so funny whenever you're hiking, because people are always asking about animals. The biggest question I get asked is are you carrying a gun? Which is so funny to me because I'm like I'm going to the one place. You don't need a gun. We got shootings left and right in the cities, in the towns, but, like out in the woods, no one is shooting anybody because everyone's actually in their body. But it's so funny how many things people are scared of getting a rash, or scared of hurting themselves, or scared of an animal, or scared of a crazy person that they imagine is going to live out there, because they heard some story of one once. Like it's crazy how scared we are of nature, how scary.

Erin Gray: 1:12:10

We are of our own nature. It brings up all of the fear that already exists with us, like that's what I said about COVID, right, it's just like COVID just showed us how much fear we already have existing within us all the time, because that was just the amplifier for us. And that's the same thing, like what you're saying in nature, right, it's like it shows you where are your fears. And yeah, and I think it like you say, it's nobody is like, it's not like Robert and I are these special, you know, unicorns. It's like it's the willingness, right, like am I willing to feel what needs to be felt? And and I think here we go back to nervous system it's like we don't have to go from zero to 100, right, like zero to point five.

Robert Hill: 1:12:55

You can't perfectly okay.

Erin Gray: 1:12:57

Right Like, yeah, point five is okay. And normalizing point five right Like here we are like you hear about people building businesses air quotes overnight right Like it's like no, it's been happening all along. Right, it's just like what is the highlight, and so really just normalizing a little bit of the time is just fine, you know.

Robert Hill: 1:13:19

So yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's. It's not about being willing to do it all, it's really just about being willing to take the next step.

Erin Gray: 1:13:28

One, one step, right, One step and and I do think it does get easier, I think I think my resistance was a lot more when I first got started. Right, like if you think about energy and inertia. Right, like it takes so much more energy to go from a full stop to to motion than it does to go from one to 50, right, because you're already in motion and so, being gentle, here we go back to like how are we speaking to ourselves, being gentle and kind with ourselves, like if you're just starting on the journey, going from nothing to one is like everything, because it requires such a huge amount of inertia to get started.

Erin Gray: 1:14:10

There's so much resistance and yeah it's okay, right, like just get back on the horse, just keep going. It's okay, we all fall off, you know.

Robert Hill: 1:14:22

Sitting in the resistance.

Erin Gray: 1:14:26

Yes, friends. Thank you, Robert. I'm so, so grateful. We didn't even get to talk about money. That might be another podcast that we can come back on and have a conversation with so where can people find you and connect with you?

Robert Hill: 1:14:39

So the main place I would say is my website, robertjhillcom. Currently, in terms of January 2024, it's it's like there's a construction page up Within a couple weeks, new sites come in and I'm so stoked about it. I feel like I'm finally gonna have the website I've always wanted. And then as well, instagram. That's where I also focus a lot of stuff, which is just at RobertJHill.

Erin Gray: 1:15:04

Perfect, thank you.

Robert Hill: 1:15:06

Thank you.

Erin Gray: 1:15:08

If you want support as you unpack your money beliefs so that you can start having fun with money and enjoy all that you have created, you can head over to my website to schedule a call. And, as always, from my soul to yours.