Homeless Outreach and How You Can REALLY Help

Joining Sarasota Police Chief Rex Troche on the podcast this episode is Sergeant Morrison and Deidre "Dede" Jones of the City of Sarasota's Homeless Outreach Team. Learn about the resources they provide to those in need and what community partners they work with most frequently. Chief Troche, Sgt. Morrison, and "Dede" Jones also talk about the best ways you can help the Homeless Outreach Team and why some handouts can be harmful. 

Transcript

00:00:04:07 - 00:00:30:25
Unknown
Hi and welcome. I'm Chief Troche and you're listening to Chat with the Chief, a podcast. We are going to be discussing our homeless outreach team. I am honored to have Sergeant Jamey Morrison of our homeless outreach team here, who oversees the law enforcement side of the Heart team. And I have Ms.. Deirdre Jones. We love to call her Dede, and she's the other side of the homeless outreach team, the mental health side, and social services.

00:00:30:26 - 00:00:48:24
Unknown
Thanks for being here. Absolutely. Thank you for having us. One of the things I wanted to start off with was really trying to humanize a lot of the people that I have. The great honor of working with. And to call you Jamie, you can call me Rex. I won't be offended. Not going to happen. And I think it's important that people listening understand that we're humans.

00:00:48:24 - 00:01:06:21
Unknown
We're no different than anybody else. So going to throw a few questions at you right now? Absolutely. All right, Jamie, what are some of the things that you like to do with your family, your friends? I know you're recently engaged, is that correct? Yes, I do like to engage as a family. We all race swamp buggies. So down in Naples, there's swamp buggy racing.

00:01:06:21 - 00:01:26:28
Unknown
There's multiple different classes. But my family in particular, we race the Jeep class. And so we go down there three or four times a year and race around in the mud in the swamp and see what we can do. Usually break stuff and dump money into this. It's a hobby, it's traveling. We don't get anything out of it financially, but other than spending money, it's fun.

00:01:26:29 - 00:01:45:09
Unknown
I had no idea that you did that. No, no, no. You know, I've seen pictures. Wow. Okay. That's rough. Indeed. How about you with your family? We like to do. My kids are kind of my world. They're 13 and 16, so we're kind of getting closer to, you know, going to be moving on to bigger things. So trying to grasp the time I have.

00:01:45:09 - 00:02:02:21
Unknown
So to sit down and read cards, it just get you asking questions about world issues or what's going on internally and those kinds of things. And it ends up bringing out some of the best discussions. So it's something that we try to do at least once a week, and that's the one time they get along and are on the same page about things.

00:02:02:21 - 00:02:24:06
Unknown
So it's just it's really neat to watch them grow and see how different they've become through the years. Enjoy it. As a father, three daughters, my youngest is 18. There comes a point where you're no longer the son in their world, and so just enjoy those times if you can. Jamie Just kind of tell us about the dynamics, about heart, and then how you interact with this group in order to help the homeless.

00:02:24:06 - 00:02:46:18
Unknown
People may not see you day in, day out, because sometimes you're out early in the morning, in the wee hours of 3 a.m., 4 a.m., sometimes you're out so very late. So not everybody may see what you're doing. And the homeless outreach team, we're made up of myself, which is the sergeant of the unit. And then I have four officers to our primary outreach officers, and then two are primarily enforcement officers, are outreach officers.

00:02:46:18 - 00:03:13:02
Unknown
We try and just have positive influence with the homeless that we come across. They are usually with our case managers. When you think of law enforcement interacting with people, a lot of people only put that with I'm in trouble or it's a bad encounter. They're enforcing something and that's not the case. The city's homeless out regime goes by the three E's, which is to educate them on services available and the laws and ordinances that are in place so that we can hopefully prevent them from violating any of those.

00:03:13:02 - 00:03:46:24
Unknown
And then we encourage the individuals to take us up on some of those services, help us get them connected. So that comes to the last E, which is the enforcement side of things with enforcement, we do have the two enforcement officers on the team as well as myself. I would say I'm closer to the enforcement side, but when we contact somebody, if we have already educated them, we've encouraged them and they're just still not ready to accept services, but they are violating one of those laws or ordinances in place, we can issue them a community care court date that kind of forces their hand at looking at the services available.

00:03:46:24 - 00:04:20:23
Unknown
If there's a program they don't have to complete it, just show progression. The charge that they were originally given is actually dropped or outreach works with the case managers. A lot of these people have underlying issues that have them in this situation in the first place. Some it's addiction, some it's mental health, some it's I fell on hard times, whether it be a natural disaster or the prices of everything right now is just through the roof and they're stuck on a set income, whether it's Social Security disability that doesn't always supplement the cost of things.

00:04:20:23 - 00:04:50:04
Unknown
Right now it's really high. And so they figure out what these individuals need and how they can help. And then if, let's say there is an interaction with an individual, they still have the outreach officers with them. If they do have to step in and be like, well, for their safety, because they're they're not armed. They're they're just social workers that are trying to really help in any way they can do what's the interaction on your end as far as you see it with law enforcement arm and then obviously all the services that you have knowledge about?

00:04:50:04 - 00:05:10:11
Unknown
Realistically, in our city, we have the right to govern our public space, and that applies to any person that is in the city of Sarasota. So when we come across somebody who's in violation and we're able to determine that this person is experiencing homelessness and they can decipher that with a community care court date to be able to offer those services on the back end.

00:05:10:19 - 00:05:33:00
Unknown
I think it's just a really great way to really utilize our tools that we have in our community. And those collaborative pieces work with all these different agencies as well. So we have relationships with some close partnership to end homelessness. We work with Center stone for people who have maybe the persistent and chronic mental health issues that we can help them get into comprehensive treatment court with center stone.

00:05:33:00 - 00:05:57:29
Unknown
So they can receive the treatment they need because obviously you can't just tell that person like, hey, you're in violation of the city code and they're just going to get up and walk away because there's comprehension issues and just things that they're not able to really manage. So we're able to utilize those services for them. So we basically those are just a couple examples that we use, but we just work together to be the information for these individuals, whether it be through enforcement or outreach purposes.

00:05:58:11 - 00:06:24:17
Unknown
And really all of our knowledge comes together to really help almost every type of situation that could possibly occur. We're very creative and ways that we manage these situations. And it just I mean, without one or the other, it just wouldn't be as successful as it has. But it also helps us reaching out, figuring out who these individuals are, because a lot of times it's a call for service when we do get like come in contact with somebody and we're like, Have what's your story?

00:06:24:17 - 00:06:42:25
Unknown
And then so it might have started as like, yes, I might know how to enforce this trespass, but at the same time I was able to get them connected to the outreach side and the case managers to get them connected to services they might not have known. They're new to the area and they didn't know any of this was even available to them.

00:06:42:25 - 00:07:03:16
Unknown
So I guess I might have had to act or even sometimes it is like a petty theft or a shoplifting where they're still a victim. I still have to enforce what was the law violation, but that doesn't mean we can't get them connected to the case managers and actually get them the help that they need and that maybe that was the reason for the theft.

00:07:04:03 - 00:07:25:20
Unknown
You work together, but how closely do you work together? Do you sit in an office in downtown D while your officers are in cars, or are you actually physically working together? I think people kind of need to see that picture. All of the above. Okay. There's just some times where I'm just downtown. Sometimes I'm just walking around downtown just to see with my own eyes what's going on.

00:07:26:03 - 00:07:42:09
Unknown
Sometimes I just have meetings that kind of pulls me away from the group. The case managers tend to stay at the police department, and what works really well with that is if there's like a call to service where case management is needed, they're here, so they can hop in with one of the officers to go ahead and take care of that situation.

00:07:43:06 - 00:08:13:04
Unknown
We talk, Jamie and I, talk every day like there's not a day that goes by that we're not in contact with each other. My approach is very hands-on. I like to do outreach because I want to see what's going on in the community. But I also know that if I can't be there, that my case managers and the outreach officers are so amazing at what they do, then the situation will be handled and our communication makes it where we don't miss anything like one hand always knows what the other hand is doing because I feel like it can't be successful if you don't have that open communication.

00:08:14:12 - 00:08:35:00
Unknown
And what's your background, Dede? So I have a master's degree in professional counseling. I'm also a licensed mental health counselor I've worked with in my career with a lot of the agencies that we partner with, like first step of Sarasota. I've worked at a detox there. I've worked with Center stone, with the Comprehensive Treatment Core program, I worked with Selah Freedom.

00:08:35:00 - 00:08:59:03
Unknown
So I have a lot of the background of some of the experiences are individuals experiencing homelessness have dealt with. So it just helps create those relationships as well. As far as knowing what's appropriate to refer them to. So I mean, really mental health field, that's really kind of my world. So this fits hand in hand. I think that's good for people listening to, to understand that you have a very in-depth background.

00:08:59:06 - 00:09:17:06
Unknown
This is what you do and you're essentially a subject matter expert in this field. And then Jamie just kind of give everybody a little bit of your background as far as years of service and some of the things that you've done as well. I've been at the agency for eight years. Prior to that, I did get my bachelor's in criminology.

00:09:17:06 - 00:09:38:01
Unknown
I did have a childhood that I did have a lot of interaction with law enforcement due to family, mental health and addiction. So I was pretty fortunate to be with family members, but my sisters were actually in and out of foster care. And so part of getting with family members when they did get straightened up. So I kind of saw a lot of different sides of it.

00:09:38:17 - 00:09:59:03
Unknown
And I mean, for my sister's sake, I wanted to show that they didn't have to follow that same pattern. And so I started doing that's why I got into criminology in college and really started digging in. How can I be that difference? I want to show people that this might be their life right now. It doesn't have to be their life forever.

00:09:59:03 - 00:10:22:24
Unknown
Like they can change that. They can make that step to improve. And it doesn't matter what you were adult like, it's it's up to you. And nobody said it was going to be easy. Do you think your background in your experiences really led you to where you're at right now? Absolutely. Absolutely. Just in the eight years that I've been here, I've interacted with many individuals, kids, and they're like, you don't know what I've came through or what I or what I've been through or where I came from.

00:10:22:24 - 00:10:45:08
Unknown
And I'm like, Actually, you'd be surprised. A lot of people think cops live this perfect life and they were born with a golden spoon in their mouth. And that is so far from the truth. A lot of us have these experiences that led us to this career in the first place. So like a lot of us are in this career for the right reasons, and it's to make a difference to the community and just how can we help?

00:10:45:08 - 00:11:12:11
Unknown
We are here to serve you. It might not be the help that you think you should be getting, but sometimes open ears and just listen to what they have, like what people have to say and they might be guiding you to kind of get your life on a better track. And this can start from I mean, I've had talks with five year olds that I think comprehended a little bit even of what I'm saying.

00:11:12:11 - 00:11:44:20
Unknown
Like you don't have to live this life. Unfortunately, there are some people, some children have bad experience with law enforcement due to family situations, and they only have seen a negative side, whether it be family members being taken away. And it starts their kids like they need the positive interactions as well. And that way they can start making decisions and not go down that criminal path that might end up leading to homelessness because sometimes you get charges.

00:11:45:18 - 00:12:10:03
Unknown
It's hard to rent houses out, like depending on your record. Landlords look at that. So I mean, it really just starts from a young age. And I agree with you hundred percent. I think some of the best officers are the ones that have had trials and tribulations in their life that have had it hard, that have had to put that chip on their shoulder to get through it and then take that negative and turn it into a positive.

00:12:10:03 - 00:12:30:08
Unknown
And and I can see it day in and day out. Some of the best officers out here that have the most empathy for people are the ones when you really start digging, you're like, Wow, man, you've really had a tough life and you've really come a long way. So I agree 100%. How long does someone have to be homeless in this city in order to receive services?

00:12:30:08 - 00:12:55:15
Unknown
Because I think that people in the community just think, well, someone's homeless, they can get services. Is that the case or is that not the case? There's different types of programs out there depending on the circumstance. So if they've been homeless for two weeks, then we do something along the lines of just getting them connected with some sort of diversion because they're not chronically homeless, they're not dealing with a lot of the other heavy layers that a lot of our chronically homeless have.

00:12:55:22 - 00:13:11:15
Unknown
So we're able to kind of divert them as far as our beds that we actually have at the Salvation Army. We our goal is to help those who are chronically homeless. They tend to be a little more difficult to work with. They might have been burned by the system once or twice before, so they don't really trust anyone.

00:13:11:15 - 00:13:33:29
Unknown
So it just is something that is a little more delicate to work with. So that would be roughly in the city, specifically because there's a county health team as well. So in the city for a year or longer, chronically homeless is that's our client target. Otherwise there's other resources in the area, no matter who it is. Like if somebody find someone they've been homeless for a week, we will get them plugged in.

00:13:33:29 - 00:14:01:07
Unknown
So we always take referrals from anywhere to be able to assist that person. But our goal is to really work with those chronically homeless and some of it's really on the homeless person, right? I mean, if they want to follow through and do what they need to do, check her out of it for the like. Deedee said, like the homeless outreach team, the our bed, it's like it's chronically homeless for if you really need to be homeless in the city for over a year.

00:14:01:14 - 00:14:23:17
Unknown
But that doesn't mean that there's not other services available. It's just not necessarily in the city of Sarasota's, the Salvation Army necessarily, or our hot team. You might not qualify for that, but there's other programs. But then they might require you to fill out certain job applications or see a psychiatrist about let's get your mental health. Like your addiction is secondary.

00:14:23:17 - 00:14:41:12
Unknown
We need to get your mental health squared away first. But they don't want to take those steps on their own. And so then they don't qualify for the program that is actually appropriate for them. I should I would say they it's almost like a lot of them just they want a quick fix you to fix it all right now.

00:14:41:12 - 00:15:02:22
Unknown
And that's not how it works. We need to see that they want it and they're willing to work for it just as much as we want to help them. And I'm sure you talk to your counterparts at other agencies with respect to homeless outreach teams, where do you think we are compared to other cities regarding our homeless population, city and county outreach teams?

00:15:02:22 - 00:15:27:00
Unknown
We meet every single week and we discuss are we have currently in the beds of the Salvation Army. If we find somebody that's more appropriate for the other team, we have a text chain that we have constant communication gotten that. I know I've said that word many times today, but I can't emphasize how important communication is, and I feel that some cities may not or counties do the same thing or maybe they're is like, oh, that's a city problem or that's a county problem.

00:15:27:02 - 00:15:52:06
Unknown
That's not what we do here. It's Sarasota problem. And we come together as a community to help anyone that's a need. Like you said, communication collaboration is really the key. And I can say more so in the last few years and then in the past that that has really improved over the years, not just within the homeless outreach team, but interagency, along with the Sheriff's office and Northport and Venice.

00:15:52:16 - 00:16:23:11
Unknown
I just feel that communication has been amazing and we've seen things improve leaps and bounds. We had a magic wand. You can use a magic wand. What word we apply in order to effect change here? Affordable housing, the housing market has just gone so extreme that you have to think if a person gets disability and they legitimately can't work because of their mental health and they haven't been able to work most of their life because of their mental health, they're making $941 a month.

00:16:24:10 - 00:16:40:27
Unknown
What can they afford? They can't even do room chair. Room chairs are about $800 a month right now To leave legitimately cannot afford to live in Sarasota. And we can't just be like, well, they moved to a new county because that's just not the right thing to do. They're still human. So we just don't have options that we used to have.

00:16:40:27 - 00:17:09:28
Unknown
And Sarasota, Jamie, if you had a magic wand and you could change anything other than obviously, like I said, curing homelessness, which would be great, what would you use it for? So we have a lot of generous individuals in our community and they really would do anything they can think of to help individuals. Sometimes their generosity is not assisting individuals that are dealing with homelessness in the way that they believe.

00:17:10:13 - 00:17:44:12
Unknown
We I see a lot of donations happened on the side of the road and those donations don't necessarily go to where they're thinking that they go to or helping the individuals as they thought it would. When that's happening, these individuals are not having to go into a program where they would get the same stuff that people are donating and so they are able to stay out of a program that they would get the services and products and maybe counseling if that's what they need in those programs.

00:17:44:22 - 00:18:08:22
Unknown
They're not having to do that because they're getting it on the side of the road or in a park wherever these individuals are wanting to donate to. So and a lot of times due to weather or the like, they don't have any way to carry this. It a lot of it ends up in the trash. It gets wet, soiled mildew food, Food goes bad very quickly.

00:18:08:22 - 00:18:31:18
Unknown
It gets ants. So just donating to the side of the road is causing some hazard as well as almost wasted. And why do you think that is? I think people do this out of the goodness of their heart. They truly believe that that they're making a difference in helping an individual by donating. I think they're doing it for all the right reasons.

00:18:32:00 - 00:18:52:09
Unknown
They just don't see the other side of it where the answer all over the food and then we have to call in public works to actually dispose of the stuff. When I ask individuals why they are hanging out and not going into a program, like why are you choosing to be on the sidewalk right here? Like, what can I do to get you on a program?

00:18:52:09 - 00:19:14:23
Unknown
And they have everything they need right on the sidewalk. Everybody bring some food, clothes. I've been there and they hand them $20 bills right in front of me. And here, if I was able to stand on a sidewalk and be handed cash, I don't know that I would be coming to work either. Right. And I think I think the toughest part is I think they just see, hey, here's a person in need.

00:19:15:08 - 00:19:34:00
Unknown
Let me give to that person in need. And we understand that. And I certainly understand that. I understand that there's a lot of consternation that goes in that decision, because the reality of it is by doing that act, you're not helping that person in need. You're keeping them from making a decision and going to a program in order to get help.

00:19:34:00 - 00:19:52:04
Unknown
So in the short term, they're helping them, but in the long term, they're not helping them. You could donate them a blanket on the side of the street that's going to end up or soiled, or you can donate that blanket to an agency. So when they get housed, they have this beautiful blanket on their beautiful bed in their home that's going to have much more of an impact than doing it on the sidewalk.

00:19:52:08 - 00:20:12:25
Unknown
Absolutely. These people that have budget that are being generous and are able to donate and have the helping hand, like there's so many agencies and shelters and stuff that will love to take those donations and they would go to a better use and last a lot longer than they would on this either. So I'm going to go through these questions.

00:20:13:04 - 00:20:35:25
Unknown
They're great questions. We're not going to be able to answer all of them because there are so many and some of them are have already been answered in the podcast. So here's a here's one for you, Dee. How can the community or partners in the community better support you donate and donate to those agencies that actually provide the services for the individuals so they can get the long lasting housing?

00:20:36:12 - 00:20:55:09
Unknown
It's always important. I mean, financially, they will never say no to your money if that's something that you want to do, but just know that it's being used to do great things and actually make a huge impact in changing our community. And then I'm going to give this one to you, Jamie, how long has a homeless outreach team been around?

00:20:55:14 - 00:21:23:03
Unknown
Since 2014. So we're in our ninth year. Here are some questions, I guess for me, why did I want to start a podcast was I thought it was important for us to get our message out. I don't think that people living in the city or even in the county understand the complexity and all of the things and the moving parts within a police department, and they don't even understand.

00:21:23:16 - 00:21:45:20
Unknown
They just don't want to understand. They just don't have the knowledge of the great talent that we have here and what we're doing on a daily basis. So I felt it was important to get the message out. Now, in years past, we may have gone to a facility or recreational center and we bring all these people to explain all the great things we've done over the course of a year.

00:21:46:04 - 00:22:18:00
Unknown
And when we get there, maybe five, ten, 15 people show up. And I understand why that is, because people have jobs, sometimes two jobs, children, they work late. So doing a podcast in my opinion, was the best way to get the message out where you could access it at your leisure, whether you're eating lunch, whether you're at work and you have a few minutes, whether you're working out and just kind of sit there and focus on what we're saying and have that time to yourself and then hopefully ask us questions to follow up on.

00:22:18:25 - 00:22:46:20
Unknown
So I hope everybody that's listening tells other people to listen. And I have two great guests, but it's going to get better and better. Any word as to when the Speedy volunteer program is coming back? I hope very soon. I'm shooting for this spring. If not, then the fall. I hope that answers that question. I was hoping this spring, but we've had some speed bumps and I just need to hire a civilian coordinator and that's what I'm trying to do.

00:22:47:18 - 00:23:14:21
Unknown
Will you make the podcast available in Spanish? How cool is that question? That tells me we have Spanish listeners, right, that are interested in what's going on in the city. So I can say this we're low budget right now and in fact, we're so low budget right now. We're in an interview room in our Criminal Investigation division and we're we're just really using the minimal bare, minimal equipment that we could afford.

00:23:15:05 - 00:23:37:16
Unknown
So I'm hoping, yes, we will be translating in Spanish. So please continue to listen and hopefully that'll be coming to the theater near you. So I just want to thank Jamie, indeed, for being in here and I know that we had a short time to cover a broad topic. And I do want to thank you for your time and all you do for the city of Sarasota.

00:23:37:29 - 00:23:55:07
Unknown
I don't think the people of the city even really can understand in totality. Just by the few minutes that we had in here how committed you both are to what you do. And so I think you being the chief of police, I thank you for your time and your efforts, and I mean that sincerely. Thank you for having us again.

00:23:55:17 - 00:24:14:07
Unknown
Everybody listening, Please tell your friends to listen to us. Have a great day. Please live, love, work, play in our city because we love it just as much as you do. You all have a great day.