Lauren "Lolo" Paz, founder of A Soulful Sorrow, discusses the profound journey of grief and finding healing, meaning, and spiritual reconnection after pregnancy loss.
She highlights the lack of resources and support for women navigating this complex terrain, and emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to healing, addressing the physical, emotional, and spiritual aspects of grief.
Lolo delves into the challenges of shame and guilt often associated with pregnancy loss, advocating for validation and permission to grieve. Nina and Lolo explore the power of therapy, somatic practices, nature, and rituals in the healing process, underscoring the transformative impact of community and support in navigating the journey of grief with compassion and resilience.
Takeaways:
Lauren Paz's Social & Websites:
Referenced in Episode:
Nina Rodriguez Social & Website:
Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers
#griefandlight #griefandlightpodcast
I
Thank you for listening! Please share with someone you love.
Want your story featured in a podcast episode?
Please contact me via IG @griefandlight, via email at nina@griefandlight.com.
Lauren "Lolo" Paz, founder of A Soulful Sorrow, discusses the profound journey of grief and finding healing, meaning, and spiritual reconnection after pregnancy loss.
She highlights the lack of resources and support for women navigating this complex terrain, and emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to healing, addressing the physical, emotional, and spiritual aspects of grief.
Lolo delves into the challenges of shame and guilt often associated with pregnancy loss, advocating for validation and permission to grieve. Nina and Lolo explore the power of therapy, somatic practices, nature, and rituals in the healing process, underscoring the transformative impact of community and support in navigating the journey of grief with compassion and resilience.
Takeaways:
Lauren Paz's Social & Websites:
Referenced in Episode:
Nina Rodriguez Social & Website:
Disclaimer: griefandlight.com/safetyanddisclaimers
#griefandlight #griefandlightpodcast
I
Thank you for listening! Please share with someone you love.
Want your story featured in a podcast episode?
Please contact me via IG @griefandlight, via email at nina@griefandlight.com.
I can speak for a lot of women and probably a lot of people in the general grief community that we don't need tissue boxes the time out, we need real tools, and we also need to be empowered to express our grief in ways other than just crying into a tissue box, because that's literally what I felt like my choices were. My choices were to go back and reemerge into the world or to cave in on myself and be a hermit in my own home, fully like golf, myself in the grief, and just I don't even know if I would ever come back. You just lost your loved one. Now what? Welcome to the Grief in Life podcast, where we explore this new reality through grief colored lenses openly, authentically. I'm your host, Nina Rodriguez. Let's get started. How can we support ourselves during times of deep sorrow? Today, we welcome Lauren Paz, who is a mother of two heaven site, a wife and a seasoned critical care nurse. But beyond these roles, Lauren is a guiding light for those navigating the intricate journey of grief related to pregnancy loss. And as the founder of a soulful sorrow, Lauren provides a sanctuary for women to honor their grief, embrace healing and rediscover purpose after loss. Her approach is deeply rooted in spirituality and mindfulness, offering a nurturing space for transformation and resilience. Lauren has a lot of wisdom to share with us, and I would like to give her a very warm welcome to the Grief and Light podcast with us today. Lauren. Thank you, Nina. It's truly an honor and a privilege to be here with you today. I'm sorry for the reasons that we're here, but I'm grateful that we get to have these conversations and honor our loved ones. And I really appreciate that. Right before we knees hit record, you lit a candle in honor of your babies and the loved ones that were remembering, including my brother today. So please take a moment to just think about your person, your persons, and we honor them through these conversations. Thank you for that. Absolutely. Yeah. So one fun fact is that I learned you are located in Bend, Oregon, and we had that really cool connection and unexpected connection. I used to live in Eugene, Oregon and Portland, Oregon, many years ago, so I'm very familiar with the Pacific Northwest and the beautiful space that you're living in. Your story starts earlier in your life through some physical challenges, I guess you could say. So maybe walk us through there and tell us a little bit about how it all started. Yeah. I think context is, is really important. So taking it in kind of this grief journey of mine all the way back when I was growing up, I had some health issues and it was discovered that I had one kidney and I was later, after a lot of different diagnostic tests and diagnosed with a very rare uterine abnormality, which then doctors told me would be I would be infertile, it would not be able to carry children. And so when I met my husband, you know, that was a big conversation, something that we really had to navigate through. And so I had, gosh, over two dozen different types of surgeries and procedures done to try to explore this and see what our options were. Long story short, I went through some surgeries. Doctors gave us the green light. We can go ahead and try. And so that was all already a very, you know, tender season and very complex season moving through that, through my formative years as a teenager into, you know, my early adulthood, it was a lot to hold. I didn't know, not really any tools to guide me through all of the complex emotions that came with all of that journey. But then we fast forward. About seven years ago, my husband and I got pregnant and we were elated. We were so excited and we were blindsided with an early loss and it devastated me. I think grief and loss can really trigger people into kind of like is also the thread that unravels that. And almost by force sometimes invites us into really looking at everything. Grief has a way of like being this like, master leveler, where you're like, well, my, my humanity. Everything that I am feeling and experiencing is exposed. There's nowhere to hide. And so after that loss, we actually endured a second pregnancy loss, which was also kind of like salt on on a wound. And going through that experience, I really generally hit a rock bottom as a woman who I would say, no, I'm not strong. The strong friend who is okay and who is always put together. Right. I'm a nurse. I stand in very critical, intense situations. I'm that pillar of strength. And in that moment, after my pregnancy losses, I felt like I was completely torn down to the studs. And it was in that season that I really had to kind of rebuilds. That's kind of where I saw this glaring lack of resources out there for women who are dealing with and navigating this this type of pregnancy loss. And, you know, that's such a vast type of grief type of loss. There's so many different types of losses. And so I'm just generally speaking, about pregnancy loss in general. There is a glaring lack of resources, particularly with a holistic lens of mind, body and soul, to really help bring healing and acknowledgment to the grief that people go through. Thank you for sharing vulnerably. I know these things are very challenging to talk about. I hear you. I hear the struggle and the challenges you went through. First of all, so early you were a teenager as a young adult. And yeah, did I hear it correctly that you had dozens or over a dozen surgeries prior to. Yes. Wow. So that in and of itself. I'm sorry about that in and of itself is it's pronounced traumatic surgery is invasive in more ways than one. But it's it it's, you know, a process our body has to go through to heal. That healing process is a more mind, body, spirit journey in and of itself. So even before the unfortunate loss of your babies to, you know, later in life, you already had so much to deal with. And would you say that at the time you faced it, or would you say that at the time you weren't equipped with the tools to move through that? Yeah, absolutely. As a as a teenager, pre-teen, even starting to go through this process of understanding this diagnosis and what it really meant for my future, I really it was just clinical is very Colt's approach. There was no kind of like overarching bigger discussion going on. There was no holistic resources that I was even aware of that my parents were even aware of. Right? They did the best they could, and so did I. But I was dealing with all this in private, in secret. No one knew all these things that I was going through. And so now I think when I look back on my journey, I recognize that those losses really was the the breaking point. And it kind of opened me wide up to to all of this stored up intense PTSD, trauma, emotion in my body and my soul and and my heart and my physical identity as a woman. I mean, there's so many intricacies along that journey that really kind of, like I said, but with grief and loss, it just it has this way of pausing our story, and it invites us all to respond in some way. And it's like, no matter what I've learned along that journey is no matter how. How much I tried with all my. My. To pretend that it wasn't there and depress the depressed, the emotions I was feeling. It always found a way to resurface. And so it was through this repetitive cycle that I saw, okay, this is not working. This depression of the emotion that I'm feeling is not working. So what else can I do? And so kind of my pivot point in my evolution started when I started to just look for I got to that breaking point and I needed tools to heal. And I came from a background that R.P. was kind of poked fun at. You know, it was kind of like the thing that broken people do. It wasn't something that was common in my family system. And so for me to kind of step out and say, I need this. That was a very brave thing at that time. I think now it's more mainstream, and I'm very grateful for that. But at that time, it was a little taboo. And my family system, I was even like a little nervous, are ashamed to share that I was going and seeking help from a professional. Right. But that opened my eyes to really acknowledge what I was feeling. And I think that that's so key for the foundation of healing. Is that women. Specifically with pregnancy loss and a lot of these feminine wound things that can happen with infertility and all the trauma that goes along with that, there is this glaring lack of like a validation for the experience that women are going through. And so I think starting with validation is a huge gift to give yourself. And so giving myself that gift, that's the way to just acknowledge it was years and years. Of intensity and all this complexity that I was feeling, that I felt like I could finally process and release. That was really, really powerful in and of itself. Just talk therapy was my first step. And then I got into EMDR, which is an incredible tool if anybody is looking for healing of like PTSD and things like that that blew my mind. And as a nurse, seeing that science kind of come in also with the spirituality aspect, add an amazing EMDR coach, so to speak, who, who walked me through that was a very spiritual woman and that was a very, very powerful spiritual experience for me, healed a lot for me. And then I started to just kind of like continue down this rabbit hole. And then I got certified as a trauma informed yoga instructor. My work was offering kind of like energy type healing, like, like non-pharmaceutical healing approach to nursing at the bedside. I did that training. I loved that. I've got into breathwork and body work and so. Maddocks And Nature Therapy. And so it's just been this evolution of self-care. I got to really like gracefully reinvent myself and I think that that's so important after we go through a significant loss is for so long I fought myself to be the person I was before I spent so much time wasted so much time actually trying to get back to who I was before my losses. But when I recognize that I am not the same person and I had to like go through this process of repeating myself and it's it's work. But it is the most I think the most meaningful work we can do after, you know, the rugs been swept beneath us and almost the invitation that grief gives all of us. And so anyways, so that's how I found all these frameworks. And then I kind of experience my own healing path, and then God just really put on my heart that more people need this. There's nothing like this that exists that really has this full, overarching, holistic approach of mind, body, soul healing for women after loss after pregnancy loss. So I created when I felt like I needed. Yeah, and that's a story I hear often and same in the sense that oh we I'm so thankful these conversations are happening more openly now. We still have such a long way to go, but I'm happy to see them popping up here and there a little bit more frequently and people being open about sharing their vulnerability and their their stories, which is so powerful. So thank you for that. I hear you when you say that grief invites you to pause. Grief. You know, I like to say that the event, the tragedy, the loss that burns everything or almost everything we thought we knew to the ground and we get to start over and rewrite the story with meaning and with the purpose that we want to give it. But getting to that place of understanding that we have that power is a loss in and of itself. And I if I'm hearing you correctly, that's part of the process that you went through and in your own healing, which, yes. Was very, very brave, especially in the time when that was not the norm. So it's way more accepted now to say, hey, I'm struggling with X, Y, Z than it was back then. Because back then it's like and back then it's only a few years ago. We're not doing well. And many years ago we're only talking like maybe ten, 15 years ago. It is definitely an act of bravery. So I love that you recognize that openly and within yourself. That's huge because people who admitted to struggling with some personal issue, whatever that is, were seen as weak and want to say, no, it's not weakness. It's a point of strength. I'm admitting that there's something that needs to be addressed that is huge. So just taking a moment to highlight that, because in this new realm of conversate open conversations, we can sometimes take that for granted. But it is now and then and especially then. It was a big deal. So so thank you for the work that that you did and now you get to share with other people know and the mind body approach is is huge. I'm starting to hear more conversations about this, but I agree that in the context of pregnancy loss, it's very limited that I know because I don't have kids and I haven't experienced that. But I have had many conversations with women who have struggled either in fertility or stillbirth or miscarriage or all the I'll be unfortunate losses that surround pregnancy sometimes. Could you talk a little bit about what that experience was like as a woman? I heard you say that it makes you. Question your identity, your identity as a woman and what that's like and how womanhood is so tied to being able to have children and how you reconcile that over time. Absolutely. So I think pregnancy loss in general has been so over clinical last up in this cold approach of like, oh, it's is just a medical diagnosis and move on. And there's really no tools. There's no acknowledgment of all of the deep rooted, emotional, physical things that you experience when you go through any type of pregnancy loss. And so for so long, it's been this silent sorrow. And so it's kind of in the name of my business, a soulful sorrow. Is that what it means to experience a loss in a soulful way? It means that you're empowered to truly acknowledge all that you're feeling and and take the time you need to acknowledge the wounding that you've just endured. So I think pregnancy loss has been so over clinical ized that we've missed it. We think about what is pregnancy loss, you know, and why is it so tied to this feminine identity when you think about, you know, not to get to like biblical here, but, you know, when you think about the expression of women, right? Like who who we are. We are life bearing. Right? We are we bring life, whether that's through children or just in our essence, that is the feminine essence of who we are. And so this big expression of that, the best the greatest expression perhaps is pregnancy. Right. And bringing forth children into the world. And you get to co-create with the creator. It is this intense, beautiful, rich time as a woman. And you're entering into that. There's all this heightened energetics that are happening. You feel just so spiritually in-tune with creator and, you know, energetically, there's a lot going on in your in your womb and your body to prepare for that. And then all of a sudden, sometimes in a flash, right, you cross over from this like highest expression of life to the expression of the absolute opposite on the spectrum of death. Not all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And that all happens within. Within the. The container of your own body. Like, that is a lot of intensity. That is a lot of emotion. There is a lot of energy that we just cover. And it's like a lot to unpack there. There's a lot to sit with. And I think that giving women permission to acknowledge the fact that they just went on this rollercoaster of not just hormones and all of these things, but it's like the energy, the emotion that comes with all of that. And then to emerge from this experience that you thought was going to be the most blissful thing to have it and completely devastating way it. It's very rattling. And so it really, for me was a really an assault on my feminine identity. I felt like a failure. And I know that that's so common for women. 80% of women say that they feel shame or guilt after pregnancy loss. There is this crazy taboo that's that's surrounding pregnancy loss that women feel like they can't share or talk about it because there is this underlying feeling that I feel. I didn't do what I was supposed to do. My body failed me there. So I had, like, this intense distrust with my body, with myself. And so, you know, when I talk about pregnancy loss, it's like there's this whole discombobulation that happens with your mind and with your body and with your soul. And so there has to be like a recalibration that happens after each and every loss. And it's not to restore right, to get you back to who you were, but it's like, how can we integrate the loss and the lessons that are sitting in this soil that is so can be so rich for growth? But it can also be so rich for Shane and Liz and so much difficulty with like mental health. And that's that's where I was after my losses. I was having a crazy amount of anxiety, sleep disturbances. My body had aches and pains, my hips, my neck. I mean, I was constantly my body was telling me, hey, I need attention. There's story trauma here. Pay attention. Let's. Let's release this. And it's. So that's kind of what I'm so passionate about, is allowing women to have tools to access and acknowledge and have permission to acknowledge and validate, but then move towards processing and metabolizing. But they've gone through so that they can extract some meaning making from the experience. Because I would say probably one of the most heartbreaking things about pregnancy loss is that it feels, and maybe with all grief feels kind of senseless. For a period of time. And it it is the silent sorrow, because no one sometimes nobody knew that you were pregnant. And so it's like, how do I make meaning or draw purpose out of this? And so that's also a huge part of what we do, is we empower women to feel that they can honor and transmute the grief that they experience and integrate it into who they're becoming and honor their babies along their journey. And I think that for so many women, this grief has been this like, secret thing that they bottle up and they put on a shelf and they don't dare speak of again. It's really interesting because women have been going through this for centuries. Right? Right. And so it's like once you start to open up about it, it's like, oh, yeah, your aunt had a miscarriage and your sister did, and you're your grandma. And it's like, oh, my goodness. I guess once it's like this, this wound has been held for centuries. Our ancestors know this pain, too, but it's never been brought to the forefront of culture. Right. And so it's been so taboo to talk about there's no permission slip around it to grieve. And so it's like we're we're here to give people that permission slip of, like, your grief is valid. No matter what the gestation was, no matter what the nature of your loss was, your grief is valid. And that right there is, like I said, the foundation that so many women are lacking to begin the healing journey, a very, very tender sorrow, very tender thing when you're talking about, you know, the female energetics and the feminine identity and all of that. So we do a lot of work to repair all of that for women, too. I love how you've transmuted your own into the quiet sorrow, to the soulful sorrow. But subtle change makes all the difference. These situations for women are very common. I was surprised to learn a lot of the statistics I believe is one in every four women will experience some type of loss related to pregnancy. Yeah, I didn't know it was that high. I'm surprised. As women, we this is not more openly talked about. I know it can be scary, but one in four. That's a that's a significant statistic. So and I hate to use the word statistics, so I'm sorry if that's triggering to anybody because I don't like using, like you said, the over medicalised term when it comes to these topics. You touched on a lot of nuances that are very specific to this type of loss. So the the fact that the life and the death happen in our own bodies, in your body, that is a lot to process. And you're not a stranger to surgery or medical procedures. So to say that this in particular was completely different. This is a completely different experience. That's that's one one aspect of it, the whole connection about being a woman and what it means to be a woman, that's another one. And the shame and the not being able to talk about it is another one. You experienced this twice and this was after your surgery. So there was an element of hope. And let down and hope and let down. And I know those some who were touching on so many areas here, but you had to process all of that in and with each loss of them thereafter. Yeah, I have just so much respect for women who are navigating the the the. A whole monster that it is of of fertility and trying to bring children into this world that is deeply complex. The physical aspect of this type of grief is very unique to pregnancy loss because it is something that you're viscerally going through, possibly experiencing death in your body. You are experienced postpartum the full experience of that. Just as you would if you had a living child. And that's also something that's not spoken about. And so giving yourself, I think, the grace period to afterwards of like the immediate to really rest and restore your body and protect your inner energetic field is so huge. I know for me and I talk about this a lot, but things I wish I did differently. I tried, like I said, to go back and be that strong woman that I always was before. And I forced myself to get back into the into my job, which was very intense as a critical care nurse. And I remember getting triggered at work. You know, there was I worked at that time in a pediatric ICU. And so there was a lot of difficulties there right within with a lot of illnesses and unfortunately, death of children. And so, you know, I wasn't resourced. No, I didn't take that time to show myself and my body grease and to give myself the gift of time and to allow myself kind of the tools. And this is kind of what the the healing foundation that we lay for women, but really ways to walk through. And I think that that's. Crazy to me that women have been going through this for so long. And there's no framework. There's no framework, there's no pathway. And granted, you know, everyone's story is so different and grief is so different for every single person and every season. Right? It ebbs and flows and it always morphs and it's always different for every person. But I think there's something to be said about giving people tools to express their grief, because let's be honest, whether it's any type of grief or pregnancy loss, I feel like in our culture it's like, Oh, you endured a significant loss. You are like hexed. You need to go sit in the corner and cry. Here's a Kleenex box and you please emerge when you're healed. Thank you very much. You're making everybody come through quickly. Yeah. Yeah, right. And you cut through the glass as possible, please. And that just blows my mind. And, you know, I think I can speak for a lot of women and probably a lot of people in the general grief community that we don't need tissue boxes and and, you know, the time out. We need real tools. And we also need to be empowered to express our grief in ways other than just crying into a tissue box, you know, because that's literally what I felt like my choices were. My choices were to go back and reemerge into the world or to cave in on myself and be a hermit in my own home and just like fully like golf myself in the grief and just I don't even know if I would ever come back, right. Like those or be out of sight, out of mind. You're not accepted until you're you come back. Until you get back to normal. Yeah, that's when you back to normal please. Yeah. Can I ask that. That's why we have these conversations, because the lived experience of loss is the complete opposite. And I love that you said the Kleenex box because I'd heard from Megan Devine and she said, I have a Kleenex box in my office should somebody want to reach out. But I never offer it to somebody because there is an unintended message perhaps, or a subconscious message that it's. Clean yourself up here. Clean yourself up now. And when I heard that, I said, Oh, my gosh, that is so true. Now, if the person reaches out because they would like to wipe their own face, that's a different story. And that ad encompasses it gives me chills. But that fact encompasses what the grief experience is like. It should never be forced. It should never and I'd never, ever be forced to. You should never pressure a griever to move faster than they are a willing and able to. But we need to be more aware. I'm trying to word phrases carefully, but we need to be more aware of the messages that we're conveying to people in their most painful times And so it's interesting, when you said the Kleenex box that reminded me of that, and I think, yeah, exactly that. That's so true. That's not your only option. And there's an expectation that needs to be removed because there is so much happening here that's not going to heal. And while you had to go back to work and a pediatric pediatric ear unit, so I could only imagine how much that was already bringing up for you. So how did you move forward from there? How did you start walking your path forward once you realized this needs more time. Mm. Yeah, I, it was not pretty. How did I get support. I fell flat on my face first. I really didn't I, I would say I had my version of a mental breakdown. I, I was fully depressed and I, my body stopped me like I physically needed to stop and I had to listen. Everything got so loud that I came to a point that I had to listen. And so that's when, like I mentioned, I went, you know, talk therapy and EMDR. And what I've learned now, looking back, I didn't have the language right at that time, so moving through it in real time. But now what I have learned is that I needed. A nervous system like reset and some safety. Yeah. So I needed to establish safety first. And I think that's so important for us to actually acknowledge what we're feeling. I developed we call it in our in our program, we call it this soulful integration process or the SIP method. And this helps people move through their grief. And so the very first part of it is accessing our grief, processing our grief, and then moving to releasing our grief. And I don't see releasing in like, oh, release it. Get rid of it. No, that's that's the honoring. That's the transmuting. So we'll talk on that in a minute. But where it begins is is acknowledging but we can't acknowledge truly where we are and what we fully feel unless we feel safe to do so. And so what I do and what I did was really like deploy all of these somatic experiences to to finally help myself tune in to, okay, what is this mind body connection? What am I feeling in my body? So, like a body scan, right? What sensations are present? What do I feel? And I, in a practiced so much curiosity versus judgment. And the curiosity aspect really set me free. And I had almost like, you know, I felt like my healing journey really turned on when I was able to see myself as the observer, observing myself in my grief versus being like before I got those resources, I just felt like I was drowning and I was the grief. But what I've learned is that I am experiencing grief. I am not grief. Right. And so that's so empowering. So a lot of embodiment tools, grounding tools. So Breathwork, you know, some body movement. I love nature. I always try to get, you know, my clients out in nature and allowing them to really hone back in, tune back into their divine and innate wisdom that's always been there. Honestly, we just need space, we need time, we need curiosity, right? To be able to access that. So that's kind of where it starts from, is a healthy, safe, nervous system. So people can really access and fully acknowledge what they're feeling and feel it right. Feel it all. Actually, I just was talking to my husband about this, actually. We just lost his father recently to pancreatic cancer. And so it's interesting now watching both of us endure this fresh grief. Right. And now I'm like, okay, I have these tools and I'm seeing these things happen in real time. He he's been running around the emotions and we've been talking about that. And that's totally fine. You know, there's so many different seasons of grief, but we came home from this trip and he's like. Where we were caretaking for his dad. We just came home and he's like, I feel it's finally hitting me. And I'm like, That's okay. And I it's interesting because I don't know if you've heard of this. The lifetime of emotions typically are only 60 to 90 seconds. So when you feel an emotion arise, whether it's anger or anxiety or grief like this, intense grief. Right. Usually you always hear people sit with your sit with your emotions. What does that mean? It really just means you let it you let it do its thing. Typically speaking, at like 20 to 30 seconds, it'll peak. So you'll feel the most intense emotion there. And then after about 60 to 90 seconds, it'll start to kind of. I'm down. And it's interesting when you're able to get resources with some of these tools we're talking about where you can observe these waves instead of, like I was saying before, I was depressing. I was pretending that they weren't there. Only you guys think about what our emotions. Emotions are energy and motion. So they want to be felt, they need to move. And so we need to just allow them to move through us. Right. And so it's kind of interesting. I know for me I was so afraid of pain and the Enneagram seven on if there's any other Enneagram seven like we are hard wired to just like no pain at any cost. And so to sit with pain, as you know, as humans, we want comfort. We're not wired for that. That, that is that is in where your healing really lies. And so once you get to the point that you're ready to sit with those things and let them look through you, then you can start to process and metabolize which is the second part of our framework in the SIPP method. And so acknowledging is first and then we move into processing and metabolizing and that's more of like a physical aspect. The first is kind of the mind acknowledgments kind of like thinking through and kind of processing what we're feeling, but then we move to through metabolizing And what I'm so passionate about, like we were talking about, is like, okay, you're not just like an ex out into the corner to experience your grief. What if you could experience your groups in physical ways that give release to some of this tension and emotion that you feel in your body? I remember your first podcast, or maybe it was one of your other podcasts you're talking about how surprised you were with how physical the grief was. It scared me and terrified me because what you said about the cycle, I've heard about it as a as a cycle. So we are taught to not to avoid pain and and we're taught to almost fear it. So in that cycle that you were talking about at the 22nd mark, let's say if it goes to 30, we're like, okay, enough, enough, enough. And we pump the brakes so hard now. And that is that doesn't allow the cycle to continue. So I completely hear you. And that's so powerful that your program addresses this and teaches each person how to allow the cycle to complete so that you so that that's what it's naturally built to do. That's this ironic part. And yeah, yeah, that was the biggest surprise. It was so physical and I thought I was dying like at one point. I see. Oh my gosh, do I call 911 and having a heart attack. And it wasn't a heart attack. It was just a very strong sense of a wave of emotion. Yeah, well, hanging out in that middle one for a second. So yeah, issues are in the tissues and as that, you know, my yoga instructor and you know the trauma informed yoga kind of comes in here where it really help people move their grief through their body, through, you know, tapping, shaking movement. Breathwork. But my favorite practices and I'll give your listeners this one, this is one of my favorites is going for a walk in nature, inviting your loved one to come with you, picking up stones along the way, rocks and things that are you're just holding that are heavy, that you're grieving, you're upset about things that you're. You're just. And not let go up for whatever reason. So pick those those rocks up in your hand to name those things. Talk to your loved one about that thing, right? Then if you are so lucky to be around water, hopefully it's the ocean or a lake or pond, whatever it is. One by one. Ask your loved one to give you strength. To maybe begin to let some of those things go that you're holding can invite God into this. However, your your spiritual journey looks like at that moment. But there is something so powerful about that physical rotation, about your holding and then physically. Releasing it. And so that's just like one aspect of kind of the embodiment practices that we help people walk through that I think are so missing, right? Like to go through that experience and to go for a walking, to get outside and to express your grief in a very tangible, physical way on a physical plane is so healing. So a lot of those types of exercises and then the very last aspect of the CIP method is releasing. And releasing, like I mentioned, is not like, oh, wipe your hands of this, you're done. Move forward. It's no, it's what is the invitation that dare I say? I mean, I know this is kind of maybe a I don't know, a polarizing belief I have, but I genuinely feel, especially when it comes to pregnancy losses and these little sweet souls that come into our our life. They are here and they are they are teachers. And when we open ourselves and when we get to the point and we've done the work where we can come to a place, you know, the sounds might sound crazy to some people listening more deep in grief. I've gotten to the place and so many women can get to the place where you actually can find and harness some gratitude for the experience that you've gone through because you have grown so much through your grief. You didn't just get through it and actually got to grow through it. And that's kind of like the capstone or so to speak of our program is women writing gratitude letters to their children. About what? Sorry about that. That they've enriched their life and the impact. And that gives meaning to moms who really need it because in a loss that's invisible or I lost that. Isn't acknowledged at large by our culture. That is the beauty. That's the transmutation that is honoring that gets to happen when you move forward. And I've also designed, just like so needed a framework for women to have the ceremony of remembrance for their baby. Because that's something that, you know, as, as humans we need meaning making. When you think about when a adult or a child passes away, right. We have all these rites of passage, right? We have ceremony and ritual around death. And it's a really important part of the grieving process. Very important. And women who have experienced stillbirth or loss are wrapped up that they're not even offered that. And so we help create and curate ceremony ritual ways that women can can kind of guide themselves as to what feels right for them and their family and their partner of ways to really honor their babies. Remembrance ceremony and then moving forward and anniversaries or birthdays and things like that. So it's it's really like this. This like parting gift almost from our program apply. You get to now carry on your your child's legacy and I think a very important piece that's missing right now in this community I appreciate your emotions and I appreciate how passionate you are about this topic on every level because it's deeply personal and I'm sure you've seen it help so many other people. And that is beautifully enriching and healing in and of itself. Couple of comments that stood out to me. So on the second, the middle part of the of the process, you talk about nature. I dedicated a podcast just to nature because it is being forced large enough and vast enough to contain the magnitude of our grief. And I cannot emphasize how powerful it is when there is nothing. There are times when we question everything, our faith, what we are doing, what are we doing here? What now? What next? Like everything is a question mark. Everywhere you look, there's a question mark and your normal go to support tools, whatever those have been throughout your life, sometimes fail at that moment and that is one very normal. Well, why would in nature it's like you said, I love the exercises that you talk about picking up rocks, picking up something tangible. Grief is so intangible that to give it something physical, to manifest through and to move it through something physical other than your body in addition to your body, is serious and powerful. So I love that example that you provided. I hope that's a good takeaway, and I hope that a listener going through grief maybe tries it and lets us know that Lauren and I know how that worked out for you. So that's beautiful. And the writing to your baby and I know what you mean about the release and how that third part might sound very jarring or abstract to somebody in the throes of grief. And that early acute grief, I remember there was nothing not the most well-intentioned person, my friends, my family, they said things to me that now, five years later, make perfect sense. And I could see it came from a loving place. But in my early grief, I could just tell them to get out of my face because everything felt like the shards of glass. So I hear you. If you're in your early grief and you're listening to those and you can relate to a lot of what Lauren said and this last part feels very out of reach. That's okay. That's yeah. That's why it's a process. That's why we are guided through programs like Lauren's program. And we do this in community and we do this together and we can hold each other through these very, very hard experiences. You're not supposed to have all the answers in the beginning. Yeah. So that's why programs like this exist now. And I really, really appreciate how holistic it is and how you put your full self as somebody who has been through it, through that experience. And also you have you have the medical knowledge, you have the spiritual knowledge. I know that religion played a big part in your process as well as spirituality plays a big part in your process as well. And you incorporate all of that into your beautiful offering to to other people who have been going through that. And I wonder, is this a group process or is this an individual process? Can may be the partners of the person going through the loss? Can they get involved as well? How does it all work? Yeah, yeah. So our focus are of course, I like to call it, you know, technically it's a course in community. I like to more so call it our sisterhood and Survival Guide. That's really what it feels like. So it is self led. So when people enter into this community space, it's, it's fully insulated and safe there. And so there's comments and you know, you really interact on a deep level with people so grieving and going through the same experiences, which is so profound, but it is self led. So I would say people always ask me, you know, how long should this process take me? I would say is six months to a year if you're doing it, you know, like at a at a pace that, you know, some people might go faster through the program some people might go slower. And so it's self led. Yes, partners family are a part of the process as well. And that's actually something that I early on when I started this, that was actually one of the first things I created was a was a free resource for friends and family who want to be more pregnancy loss literate. Because so often I would get asked my friend just had a miscarriage, what do I do? What do we say? And so I created this guide that basically from the griever standpoint, from the mama standpoint, it says. Everything that you feel and you need to say, but maybe you just don't have the the capacity to say. And so this guide is like rocked and ready to go. You just give it. Send it to your loved ones, your partner, your family, your friends. And it says what you're experiencing. And it even details like say this, do not say this. Ways to power, you show up. The ways to practically show up, you know, not just in the early days, but in the long run, as well as resources for not just the griever. There's also resources for everyone else that wants to come alongside people and support them. I love that. So it truly is very holistic. It's thinking of all angles. Is that something that maybe we can link in the show notes for the list? Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. If you're listening and you're interested, go ahead and link that in the show notes. Yeah, so, so powerful. On that note too, I also have a free resource that can be used, I think in general. But if there's anyone who is navigating or wanting to want to get more grief literate or How do I come alongside someone right now, a very beautiful way to show up for people. I've created a DIY like Grief Gift basket, so it touches on my body so and so people can basically go through this and it lays out, okay, here are some items for the mind, for the body, for the soul. And you get to kind of make this intentional gift for people, which is really powerful. And yeah, I had the course in community that open and it's self lead and then I actually just opened up one on one coaching to really be able to walk through and create a safe, safer space for women who are really needing and craving more about, you know, guidance along their journey. And then I'm also beginning to host free virtual mini. I call them mini retreats, but it's these free monthly gatherings where lost moms can come and I lead you through and body practices. You have some contemplative time where you get to just turn your brain off, have your journal, fill your cup, and then we end with some community time. So it's just a time for women to feel that connection and community. It's just so important, like you mentioned, like to just not go through all this trepidation and complexity alone. We need we need one another. We need that sisterhood. I love all of those offerings, though. If somebody wanted to keep up with all the latest releases, latest announcements, they would go to your website and what is there another way to contact your is a website the best way? Yeah. A social zero dot com is a great way to get in touch with me. And then actually I also have another offering for general. It's called all season soul care. And so this is actually more of nature infused therapy. So really we have seasonal guides for spring, winter, fall, you know, really walking through. There's so many seasons of the soul and there's also seasons, you know, obviously outside. And so just like you were saying, how, how like Healing Nature is, there's a bunch of embodiment practices that get you outside. There's guided audios where you get to just pop your headphones in, go outside and do embodiment practices around each and every season. And if anybody's look to or again, I'm hosting a retreat in the fall and I host a lot of, you know, yoga classes locally and things like that. So my general Instagram, I would say, is like low, low pause, which you can find me there as well. I will link all of this. Thank you for your your beautiful work, your beautiful offering. That's very powerful. Love the one about the seasons I learned about the seasons. And in terms of what we're going through personally and for whatever reason, I had tied it to like I have to be a spring in springtime and I have to be a summer in summertime. And one day it dawned on me that I could be wintering in the summer, you know, in my my being right now. That was so such a powerful realization because I said, you know, we were so forced to feel like we need to join the collective in wherever the collective is, that which is not even the thing to be on. It's in some ways it is, but in other ways it's not. So we have to honor our seasons. And so I love that you incorporate that our soul. Our soul does not run on a capitalistic schedule. No, look, that's just not the. No, I know our life. And that's a tough lesson because I think at the core of all of this is we live in a hyper individualistic society and there's a lot of beauty in that. And then there's a lot of things that fall through the cracks because of that frame of mind and that type of value system, right? These personal struggles that every single one of us goes through and will go through and will continue to go through because life, well, there's no room for them in a hyper individualistic culture that's trying to make you a hustle worthy and productive as possible at all times. And grief literally stops you. And if you don't stop, your body will stop you because it's it's meant to it's meant to do so. No. How we get to move forward, I personally believe and it sounds like you do too is in community where are these communities. They are starting to pop up everywhere. Reach out to lolo, reach out to myself, reach out to other grievances, reach out online. There's a bunch of us and the beauty is that we are these conversations are emerging more often. Pick the one that resonates. I love how holistic yours is. I love how well-thought out and how heart centered it all is involving mind, body, spirit. So if you resonate with Lauren's story, this is how you can start. This is how you can get more information. That's how you can move forward. And I thank you for your beautiful work. And we have a few minutes here, but I want to give you open floor to say whatever's in your heart, maybe touch on anything that we didn't touch on. And and then I ask you a final question. Yeah. I would just say to anyone navigating the complexities of grief, be gentle with their self. And I feel like the earlier that you can accept that grief. We'll be a forever companion. It's not something to overcome. It's something to, dare I say, embrace and bite along. Ask with it what you need to know, what you're trying to learn from it constantly. And that answer will probably be different every day. Don't. Don't try to overcome it. Don't try to conquer grief. It's something that is an evolving, ever evolving journey. And so the more that you can find softness and surrender in that, that is is the soil that you can actually experience growth through your grief versus just trudging through and just trying to get through it. That's a big piece, and I'm feeling that I'm going through that personally right now too, in a new season of grief for myself. So that comes that comes from a very personal place. Thank you. And that's a we're ever evolving or grief is ever evolving. And I honor that you are leading and helping yourself along the way, as we all do. And on that final question, what would Lauren today say to Lauren, who suffered the first loss? Mm hmm. Yes. You're safe. Your grief is valid. Your babies are always with you. You will prevail. Thank you so, so much, Lauren. It has been an honor. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for the work you do and the space you're creating. It's an honor to be here. Thank you. That's it for today's episode. Be sure to subscribe to the Grief and Light podcast. I'd also love to connect with you and hear your thoughts and your stories. Feel free to share them with me at my Instagram page at Grief and Light. Or you can also visit Grief and Light dot com for more information and updates. Thank you so much for being here, for being you. And always remember, you are not alone.