Fractional
Fractional
Monika Avalos: A confused mind does not buy
Today we're joined by Monika Avalos, a life and business coach at monikaavalos.com. We dove into a bunch of fantastic topics!
Imposter syndrome and confidence
Worth versus improvement
Coaching and critique
Life coach versus therapists
Scarcity versus growth mindset
Money is a circumstance
Being minimalists
Working with people where things are going well
How to deal with colleagues when offensive
How to have the hard conversations
Evaluate everything
Edited by Caleb Johnson @ Embrin.com
Hello
SPEAKER_00:and welcome to episode 65 of the Fractional Podcast. I'm Lance Robbins. I'm here with my co-host Joshua Wald and we have another super exciting guest today. Monica Avalos is a business and life coach and And I cannot wait to learn more about what you do, hear your story, and dive into this independent entrepreneurship portfolio fractional conversation that we've been having on this show for the last year plus. So welcome to the show, Monica.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Thank you both. I am so excited to be here and really appreciate this opportunity. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, we're happy to have you here. And we actually were chatting with Julia Chesbrough. She was on a couple of times and she mentioned that she's worked with you. And we're just excited to hear about that. First, in the pre-show, you were asking our definition of fractional. Yes. I'll share what it is for me, Lance, you share, and then we'll maybe have a brief discussion. I think it actually, no, Lance, you've got a better definition. Go for it.
SPEAKER_00:Go Lance. I don't know about that. There are some nuances between the way Joshua and I maybe think about this because I sit in a more like managerial role and Joshua sits in a more individual contributor role. So there is, we have different experiences as fractionals. And so it shapes and colors a little bit how we think about it. But in general, when I think about a fractional. I think of somebody who has a depth of expertise in their field and will work with an organization as an embedded outside... I want to say the word contractor because it shows the opposite side to employee, right? A fractional is not an employee. They're an independent. And they bring their expertise to organizations that would typically not be able to hire someone full-time in that role. So for an early stage startup, a CHRO is probably not in the cards in terms of budget. But They could access the expertise of a fractional HR executive for a lower cost, right? And so typically that's an engagement that's on retainer. Maybe there's not a definite end date for when that's going to happen, but we need this expertise to lead this function of our business, and we're not hiring someone full-time to do that. So fractionals are mostly working for themselves, with themselves? Yes. Yep. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting. Interesting. Completely unrelated, but I find it interesting. Mr. Beast with his organization, there's been a lot of issues in the last couple of weeks. Yes, seen that. A letter just leaked, I say in quotes, a letter just leaked about how they're going to hire a chief HR officer. And it's interesting, they've gotten this large and they've had this much growth in revenue without even having a consideration for a lot of the things that a good HR person would bring. And it makes me wonder, oh, what if they had had a fractional beforehand? Because there's this point at which startups have this massive growth, but they don't hire in and maybe they shouldn't. But would fractionals kind of be a stopgap until you understand that you need that full-time support? So that's roughly how we define it. And I'm curious for you, Monica, how does that shape with your understanding of it or what you've kind of seen?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And so I think that comes into when I asked you guys the question, so are they mostly working by themselves? Because what I see with a lot of Folks, entrepreneurs, fractionals, people who work by themselves can get that imposter syndrome and not go for the bigger jobs, not go for the bigger things. And the imposter syndrome that comes with that is we're working for ourselves. There's no management. There's nobody to check in on us. We're doing all the things that like, oh, we get to decide if that's good enough or if that's not good enough. And I kind of see that. for a lot of folks where it's underlying imposter syndrome and then we're not fully sold on ourselves and selling ourselves in a way to bigger places.
SPEAKER_02:How does that differ from someone who is maybe doing the same thing as a W-2 inside of a company? Because I'm sure there's differences with imposter syndrome. Is it just that they have no way of seeing any No way of understanding how they are in relation to anything else. I'd love to
SPEAKER_03:hear more about that. I think with the, again, the level of like, I have someone to answer to, I have someone to get a review from, I have someone to tell me what I should be working on, right? I have all of that versus I'm on my own out here floating and making my own rules.
SPEAKER_00:I can relate to this. Yeah, right here I am. I'm a couple of years in on my own independent journey. I don't think I've had feedback from a supervisor for like 18 months. So I don't know if I'm killing it or I'm barely doing it, right? Like,
SPEAKER_03:I
SPEAKER_00:don't know.
SPEAKER_03:And that was a huge thing for me too. I had come from this background of performance and dancing and singing, always on the receiving end of being coached. And so when I started my own business, it was like, what am I doing? Where do I go? How do I get clients? What's happening? And it really is that, that you have to decide what's good enough. You have to decide when it's time to grow. You have to decide why, okay, I'm seeing things that are not working. Yeah. Yeah. It's
SPEAKER_02:interesting. So I was at one period in my life where I was doing a ton of work leading and building and not really having any peers in a traditional sense to suddenly being a W2 employee with 10 peers who all were just like me, not in a literal sense, but did the similar thing. And suddenly I was measured against all of them. And that was the hardest six months of my life because the measurements did not fit, meaning I had developed an amazing ability to do my work, but not in a way that was recognized within a typical corporate structure. And it was horrible. And actually, it was having a life coach at the time, which was incredibly helpful to me and starting to see a therapist. My self-motivation absolutely tanked. My self-worth tanked. And it was having someone say, all right, well, this is probably not just you. This might be situational. It might not be. Let's kind of look at that. So I'm curious, diving into that, how do you maybe approach someone who, imposter syndrome has led to much deeper, maybe more negative issues with a person who is seeking your advice. What's an approach you handle with that? Or how do you think through that with them?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, first of all, we kind of have to look at what is it that we have done? Who are we now? Because I think a lot of us who have suffered from imposter syndrome, and will continue to, I say like when we're doing new stuff, There's a level of like, I don't know what I'm doing, right? So we are an imposter at that point. So it's like understanding what do we know? What are we skilled at already? And what are we willing to grow at and not know for a while? But know that ultimately we're worthy, right? We're worthy of being able to do this stuff. We're capable of doing it. But what are the things in the past that we have evidence for that we have achieved?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Well, I'd love to hear how you define that. Separate from that, where are you going to improve?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because I like to look at like worthiness. Is that just inherent? We're born with worthiness because we're born into this world. Done. Okay, so if that's done, now what? Now what do I not think that I'm valuable in or bringing value in? And is that actually true? Or is there something that I'm just not seeing? And I think, again, this kind of goes back to fractionals, right? Like if we're not seeing it and if we're in our own bubble, in our own perspective of self-doubt, then we're not getting outside perspective, then that can easily eat away at us. We're just like,
SPEAKER_02:all right, I've got a question then. And if someone, and this has been me, but it's also been friends that I've seen do this, where you take on a massive initiative, you really go for it and you get a lot done, but not perfectly, right? Because we're human. And then you'll have people start to critique it and suggest ways to improve it. And sometimes not in maybe the ways that your ears are best attuned to listening to. What do you tell that person when they're trying a big thing? There's some shaky is happening and critique is coming in. Where does critique fit in? And yeah, how do you help that person navigate through it?
SPEAKER_03:What does it mean?
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:What does it mean? What does this critique mean? Right? That is like, what are you making it mean about yourself? Because that's what it comes down to. It's like, am I making it mean that I'm unworthy and I'm not worthy of this and I can't do anything? Or am I making it mean, okay, here's one thing I can work at. I'm amazing. So I'm going to go do it. That meaning that we have.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Go ahead, Lance. Yeah. Maybe another way to say this is like, what value do you assign to that? Ah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's a slap in the face. I can't believe they would make such a proposal to me, right? It's the same proposal, but the value that the person assigns to it, it's totally dependent on what it means to them, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I think when we're not really getting clear again on our value, our worth, our inherent worth, we're also not having language in those moments when someone says something like that to us. And language is a... Yeah, no, the communication can be hard in that. But as you were saying, Joshua, yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and sometimes we're in a place where we take that well, right? Like, oh, that's a little silly of that person. I see why they gave me that critique, but I'm doing great work and I might tweak it a little bit versus there's been times where I'm like, I was already doubting what I was doing, but I was still trying my best and some critique came in and I'm ready to just walk away and throw in the towel because I was not in a place where even... maybe not given in the best way, but still interesting critique. I just took it all negatively.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I think one of the things I help my clients do is I act this way because I feel this way because I think this way. We're getting an understanding of that. So if someone says something like that, and I'm making it mean something horrible, then I feel horrible. And then how do I act? What comes out of that?
SPEAKER_02:With that, and I... I understand there's an intersection between life coach and therapist, having had both, right? Where at one point I was hearing similar things from both at the same time in a given week. And it was actually really helpful to hear more from business and more from personal, but both intersecting. Where do you kind of see the life coach starting and stopping? I know the line's great, but where do you kind of see that versus maybe a therapist supporting?
SPEAKER_03:Definitely. Because that is one thing that I do get concerned about when there's a blurring of lines with that. And so I like to use this idea of that we're all on a field playing a game and we have our coach who is giving us strategies, who's helping us with alignment, who's giving us new ways to think about the game. But when we break our leg, we need our doctor, our doctors, our therapist. And so one thing that's very clear to me and I would hope to other people is that Coaching is not diagnosing. Coaching is giving perspective. And coaching is helping us see those things that we're just not open to. And coaching does have a level of the methodologies of therapy and the way of just understanding what we're feeling, which is kind of like the hardest thing for all of us. None of us want to feel bad. I don't want to feel the terror that's going through my body as I'm going to go try this new thing. Right. It's that part of it, that part of all of us not wanting to feel bad, not wanting to understand why we're not getting further because we're not allowing ourselves to feel bad.
SPEAKER_02:When you're working with someone and helping them try to navigate through things, people come from so many varied backgrounds, right? Different levels of privilege, different levels of... There's just such an uneven scale at which people walk in and maybe are seeking help. And I'm guessing even the people seeking help are already at a different level than many others who don't even know how to find that. How do you figure out how to approach privilege when working with someone? And I don't even know if I'm asking the question the right way, but basically acknowledging that some people are going to do better than others. And a portion of that benefit comes from how privileged your background was. And that's an unfortunate reality we wrestle with.
SPEAKER_03:That's such a good question. Privilege. Because just thinking of my own background, I'm a person of color, woman, and how much I didn't even understand coaching, see coaching, even go seek coaching until my later 30s. It wasn't even in my brain. I didn't even know about that. And so that's such a great question. And I'm not sure exactly how to answer it because I do get clients of all different races and backgrounds. But I think my background is an understanding of that. And so when I work with them, the questions that arise, it isn't like I'm tiptoeing around anything. So we do talk about it if things come up. But yeah, that's just a really good question. Thank you, Joshua. I'm going to have to think about that one.
SPEAKER_02:No, and I really appreciate this topic. The reason I ask is I've grown up with people. So I'm a white dude. I'm one quarter Puerto Rican, but I don't look it. So I'm basically white. Yes, and I'm very proud of that. So I spent a year on the island, but I don't look it. I look as white as they come. And one of the things I've seen is I've often seen other people who look similar to me basically say that they've done it all on their own by their bootstraps. And I just do not. intrinsically, I don't believe that's mostly the case. Yes. I kind of struggle with that where I'm trying to see how can I help others and how can I also figure out what level of improvement can I expect from myself that actually comes from myself versus my more privileged background. And maybe it doesn't even matter, but that's something I do wrestle with.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. My husband's name is Almon and he is black, white, and Chinese.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And nobody knows what he is. He can pass for anything. And so what's wild is we were having this conversation because we were like, oh, he's like, I wonder if my name, he's like, I never even thought about it. But what if my name didn't allow me to get into rooms in the past? Because we hear that now, right? We hear when someone changes their name on a resume and then they get into the rooms, right? And he was like, I never even thought of that because he doesn't, he has a different view of the world. He didn't come from like, you know being super like in this one part of life or in this other part of life he was like experiencing a lot and so it's so he has this open view of things and but that's one thing that he didn't He's like, oh my gosh, what if that happened to me? Right? Probably did. Yeah, probably did. And it's such a big conversation right now.
SPEAKER_02:It is. And for myself, we came from an incredibly... I know there's different definitions between poor and broke, but we didn't have any money growing up. And when my brothers and I started developing our business, we had a lot of privilege that immediately probably helped us out in conversations with people all the time. And so that's something that I... I'm trying to see how can I help others. And when I'm helping others, how can I measure how much privilege they may or may not have in the uneven world we have? I think it's a discussion worth having.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because that does give us that level of scarcity mindset.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Because we don't see people who do it like us.
SPEAKER_02:Actually, great segue. How do you approach scarcity versus growth mindset? How do you talk to
SPEAKER_03:people about that? Yeah, scarcity, how we see the world from our perspective of what we've basically seen the world as. And so I know for me specifically, there was always a scarcity with money, like there was never enough money. And that kept me chasing money and kept money being a constant worry and stress. And when I started my own coaching journey and getting coached, I was like, oh, money is just a circumstance. And I can think whatever I want to think about it. But I didn't know that. And for so many years, money took up all of my brain space. And all of that brain space was used to create and do more in the world and help more people and enjoy the arts that I love doing. They're free, right? Dancing is free. Singing in my living room is free, right? All of that is free. And so when we start talking about scarcity, it's basically... What are these things that are making us feel so stressed, so worried? And at the end of the day, I always like to ask, I'm like, okay, if I lost everything, I'm saying if I lost everything, my car, my bank account went crazy, husband left me, everything, what would I do? Oh, well, I have this friend I could go sleep on their couch. I know a lot of skills. So you know what? I'll just go teach a dance class. I can also go bartend. I'll go bartend at a restaurant. I'll go do this. I'll go do that. Like, There's things. And so it gets me out of that scarcity. Like, what would we do if we lost everything
SPEAKER_02:today? Which also can get you to the point where you're not clinging so hard and holding on so tight that you're losing that ability to be creative and open up. Totally. Lance and I have had many conversations about money and struggles and having what we consider a lot to what we consider very little. Are you guys minimalists? All right. I followed Leo on Zen Habits back in the early aughts. And I proudly got my personal belongings down to something like 100, 200 items. And I would say, given the stage of life my wife and I are at, it does not appear to be so. We have little kids. We have a lot of stuff. But there's a principle of that that I still adhere to deeply while trying to not... allow it to become an obsession. So I'd be curious how you think about minimalism and where you're
SPEAKER_03:at yourself on that. We, and so my husband and I have done it twice. And the first time we went from a three bedroom house down to a room. And then the second time is when we moved to California and we took all our lives down to tent totes. And so every time we did it, we were like, man, all I need is my studio equipment, my desk, my computer. A bed. I'm done. Right. And it just it made everything so clear. And again, it got us like out of that scarcity mindset. What do I really need? All
SPEAKER_02:right. So my son and I went camping recently with some friends and we I'd like a 24 hour notice where I was prepping. So when my buddy pulls up in his truck, we the two dads, we basically just loaded that bed down with every amount of crap you could imagine, because like we were just chucking stuff in because we didn't have much time to play. We get down there, we go on a hike. Ultimately, as you know, we only needed about 20% of what we brought.
SPEAKER_03:else down in my life. So when I went through my food journey and understanding all the things, I wanted to eat all the things. And so, oh, well, what if I just make, I constrain down my food to only these things, things that give me the most nutrients. This is what it is. And that was, oh, let me tell you guys, that was legit work because food is love. Food is happiness. All these beliefs we have with food, right? And so that was wild because again, Finding all the brain space that food took up in my life. Go saving things on Yelp. Go seeing what restaurants I want to go eat at. Go seeing all the recipes that I want to make. It was just this cleared out. Another wild thing. So I think it was this minimalism journey, taking everything out, constraining things in my life. Oh, wow. I have a lot of time. You just kind of find out like, I have a lot of time. Now what else is there? And I think our survival brain keeps us from doing that. It wants us to constantly have distractions and confusion. When we're left with space, then what?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I joke that when I go on a run or spend any time, I can't be silent to my own thoughts. I've always got to have a podcast on because that's a scary place to be. So like, let's reduce that amount of time if possible.
SPEAKER_03:Or are you having a conversation with myself? And it's scary.
SPEAKER_02:About... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And what we usually come to find out is that comfortable is actually uncomfortable. When we're comfortable, we're not experiencing anything new. We're not trying anything new. We're not taking risks. We're not finding new joys, right? And so what I've found a lot with that is either they're in a lot of directionless thinking, so I'm just confused all the time and I'm going between these things. And like one of my clients, she was like, do I want to have this business or have this business be my name? And she was spending like hours a day in this. And I'm like, let's decide. What are we doing? This is taking up so much time. So she decided and she went and she created stuff and she created an amazing what she has now, which is her subscription model. It's incredible. So like these things for us just Leave us in confusion. So now, OK, if I'm not in directionless thinking and if life is just good. I'm okay. Then what? What else is there? There's so much to this life. So what am I not opening up to? What am I not willing to open up to? And a lot of the times people haven't been willing to open up to it, but when they're hiring a coach, they're ready. They're willing to get those hard questions. And I also think that's a big deal. A lot of us, we have friends in our life who cheer us on, who validate us, who are like, you're amazing. Oh my gosh. But we don't have people in our lives not tiptoeing around. And showing us the truth because the truth is hard sometimes. Truth hurts.
SPEAKER_02:Or if you do and you're privileged enough to have that, you often don't appreciate it because it's coming from someone maybe who's too close. I've seen that where like, oh, you're my spouse and that's actually what you should do, but I'm not in a mode to appreciate it as much as maybe someone else who literally says the same thing.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. I always say like my marriage has been like my biggest growth. We've been married over 20 years now. And it's like he, that man has the best level of communication I have ever seen in my life. And when we were first married, I would just not How annoying is that? I know, I know. And I don't like you anymore, which could have easily happened, right? Which could have easily been like, God, why did I marry this dude? But luckily, it's been to a place of where the communication has just... gotten so much better and have the, those, again, those tough conversations, even if I don't want to hear it.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. And that's where, yeah, my wife and I were, I don't know, been married a while now. Oh my goodness. What's going on? 16. Yes. How to do the math on that. Hold on. Let's see here. She doesn't. Yep. 16. All right. We've gone on 16. We're going on 17. That's what it is. Yeah. My brain. Anyway, when we first got married, she always had an approach of, oh, I see something's wrong. Let's talk for me. I see something's wrong. I want to go on a run. And you can see like how that's not really a healthy way to deal with it. And we found a good mix where if something's wrong, she will initiate. And then I'm like, I need space, but we'll, we will circle back around usually within the same day. And then we actually will discuss it and get into it. And I think it's so whole other thing, but a fantastic topic as well as how do you deal with that significant other in your life and communicate through it?
SPEAKER_03:Communication. Yeah. And I mean, we all have to feel bad again, right? We all have to be willing to feel bad again because communication and laying our hearts on the table, that is hard. And I think, I mean, I know I wasn't able to do that for years. I wasn't able to say, hey, that really hurt. And I'm really disappointed right now. Like you, that hurt. And like, just, I couldn't do it. I'd be like, okay, don't talk to me. I'm going away. I'm angry. I'm mad. It was completely blocking off me laying my own heart on the table. And even in things that are in conversations that are awkward, it's like, well, this is awkward and I feel uncomfortable, but I'm going to keep... Can we keep talking this through? All
SPEAKER_02:right. So that leads into... a really great topic within the work environment, often you'll have a situation where maybe it's a peer, but maybe it's a manager, and they say something that is just downright offensive. Is that the language you use? Do you suggest something different? How do you
SPEAKER_03:approach that? Yes,
SPEAKER_02:because they say something offensive and we feel what? I shut down. My brain just doesn't even process. You want to pretend it didn't happen and you want to quickly get away from the situation, which can give them ownership over it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So we shut down. We're really actually, we're really uncomfortable. We're not saying that. We're not expressing that. And our emotions are here to teach us. They're here to let us know something. And so if I get in the process of that awareness, I'm understanding, okay, I'm uncomfortable right now. And I can either push this down and walk away, or I can have this conversation, but it's going to come out messy at first. Like none of us are great communicators at first, right? We're like, well, that was, I don't know why that, right? And things can just come out this way. And none of us want to do that because now we're adults and we don't want to, our little child in the room that's scary. Things are scary right now. And we don't want to have this scary conversation. So one of the things I do with my clients is I say, okay, well, let's just acknowledge the feeling that's happening and and keep trying to move through it. So if someone said something really offensive, that's what it felt like. So it's like, whoa, that just felt really uncomfortable because it felt kind of offensive. Can we talk about this? Because I don't think that's right. We go into that. What happens next? And then what? Yeah, and then what? And then I think when we lay out the honest truth, either people are going to be able to approach that or not. But if we're not coming from a place of defense and we drop our defenses, then it makes it easier, right? So we're not coming at it like, that was wrong and offensive. Why did you say that? Right? We're coming at it as like, whoa, you know, that made me really uncomfortable and it felt a little offensive. Can we talk about this?
SPEAKER_02:With... Most people, that probably would be disarming, right? And I've seen it in my life where probably the few times I've been able to say it appropriately and with the right spirit, it de-escalates, right? You may walk away. I had a friend recently where both of us offended each other in a meeting, and we talked about it an hour long later on. And at the end, we're like, actually... I don't think we actually fully agree, but we're good. We're good. We realized that neither person's motives were evil. We both just stumbled on our words a little bit and let's keep moving forward. Had we not done that, I think we both would have felt more negative about each other. At least I know I would have. I can't speak for the other person.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I'm always curious about, because when we say things like, oh, let's just agree to disagree, things like that, are we actually getting to the meaning? I
SPEAKER_02:mean, it's a great point. I think on that, some of those points like we still would say we don't agree right like so there's you have to decide i'm curious your approach on that how far do you keep digging right how far do you keep going on that
SPEAKER_03:and i think it's how important is the relationship to us if it's how valuable is being right versus yeah absolutely lance because i mean there is some people that have said Yeah. If a friend says something that's very disappointing to me or very hurtful, I am going to fight for that relationship. And it's going to be hard if they're not willing to fight for it too.
SPEAKER_02:So on that point then, when you've had friendships that took a dip, you fought for it and they reciprocated in a positive way. Actually, on both sides, I'm curious. When it's been positive, how has that strengthened? And If there's been no resolve, did the friendship limp along? Like, how
SPEAKER_03:does that go? When there hasn't been resolve, the friendship just went in a more superficial place. When there has been resolve, it's deep connection. And I think all of us are looking for that, right? That deep connection. All
SPEAKER_02:right, so follow up then. He's like, wait, wait, wait. So how do you differentiate a minor blip versus someone actually being offensive? Like, ah, I think they had an off day. Do I bring this up? Like, where do you draw the line and try to figure that out? If it offended me. So if I thought something,
SPEAKER_03:yeah, if something really offended me, they might just not be aware of it. So many of us aren't aware of what we say. We just have lines coming out of our mouth, right?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:We're in this kind of place of regurgitating things, right? And so I think that every time that I've called someone out on something, a lot of the times they just weren't aware. And I always like to think, if no one in my life is actually doing things from malicious intent, like they're not out to hurt me, then why would they say this? What's behind it? Because I think when we think people are maliciously against us, that's where it's like the anger comes up, right? Our defenses rise up. We're like, we're going to fight. But when we drop that and like, okay, my neighbor's not playing loud music because he hates me. Let me go find out why. Okay, my mom isn't telling me these things because she hates or she's maliciously against me. She loves me. So let me go find out why she's saying that. Or my best friend or, you know, putting that in whatever. My boss wants me to do a good job. So why is he being like this? Or he, she. And those
SPEAKER_02:conversations are so much easier to avoid than to have.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, aren't they? Oh, my gosh. So when you were saying that, you know, how do I step into this or how do I do this? And what I find the best I have love this approach is that we evaluate everything and I look at it like scripts. So. Someone said this. What did I say? How did I feel? And now how would I re-say it? What would I do now? And that goes into our approach too of when we're with clients and when we're with people, objections. Like they had an objection. What did I say? Now, what would I have said
SPEAKER_02:knowing this information? So just to process through that, if I have an issue, someone raises an objection, I respond back, it goes poorly. You're saying later on to think through the whole thing and then think through how I could respond better. Is that kind of defining
SPEAKER_03:it? Yes. And simple of what worked, what didn't work, what would I do differently, right? What would I say differently? So it's that same evaluation approach. in these things as well. So they said this, this, this, this happened. Okay. How could I have said it differently? How could I have asked a different question? I know when I was first starting my coaching journey, I'm recording all of my test clients, right? And then seeing, oh, wow, I could have asked them this question. That would have gotten so much further. Oh, wow. I could have done that. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I see with entrepreneurs, people, solopreneurs, all of it. We are not evaluating. And evaluation is where
SPEAKER_00:everything lives. Greatest growth. You're bringing up something that we touched on a little bit in the pre-show, this concept of asking questions, right? As a coach, essentially, the biggest tool in your tool belt is questions. And I hear you describing it as evaluation. Maybe I'm leading with this a little bit, but the idea that you should have the answers versus... The idea that you should have the question. I think so many of us that are practitioners, we're here to solve someone's problems. We're a consultant. We think that having the answer is what someone's paying us for. But in your role, that's actually not it, right? And maybe dig into or share a little bit more about the power of questions versus answers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that that can be hard because when we're in a role for ourselves or creating our own businesses, all of that, we're also like trying to prove something to ourselves, right? Like I can get clients, I can make this happen. We're like in this kind of thing of proving.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and to interrupt, like we also spend the first 20 something years of our lives thinking that we have to have all the answers to get a grade that passes, right? And it's not until
SPEAKER_02:honestly,
SPEAKER_03:yeah. What did we learn in school? We learned that we had to get an A or else failing, we're going back. Right. You need to know the answers. Yes. And in entrepreneurship, it's like, no, we got to keep failing. We got to keep failing. And so I think that's so hard for our brain to recognize because we were in this kind of way where we couldn't fail. How to get an A. So back to your question. Take me back to that, Lance. Take me back to the question. I got slide drip.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. What is the power of questions versus answers? And how would you maybe coach an early entrepreneur on thinking in terms of questions?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So then if we're not trying to prove ourselves and if we're just trying to help people, What is it that we need to know about our clients? Because it's like they're getting on the phone for help. They're here for help. They want you to be their solution. So what do they need? What are they afraid of? What do they want? And once we start finding all of that out, when objections come and things like that happen, we can know that it's not about us at all. It's about something that they're afraid of or worried about. So let me address that. Let me find out what that is because it's always something like when I, I, we have to remember that people love to be sold to. I love being sold to you guys. When, when someone tells me something like, oh my God, I just got this amazing product. You have to try it out. Oh my goodness. I'm like, yeah, yeah. I want that too. Right. And so if we're thinking of our businesses this way of like, oh my God, it's the most amazing thing you can I don't know why you wouldn't be doing this. If you're not working with me, you're confused. So let's find this out, right? And dropping our defenses of trying to prove anything or trying to go out to get anything, then we are asking questions. I need to know what is it that they're looking for because I have it, right? Or what is it that not? And maybe I can go get it. Maybe I can learn from this. It's just a... complete shift in our energy.
SPEAKER_02:So I want to kind of circle this around to Julia. She recommended you to come on. I've loved kind of just hearing your philosophy on this. Let's say you have a fractional, someone who is trying to build their business and feels that they're not getting the traction they want. They haven't landed their first client or they're losing clients. They're not getting very many. What is an approach that you will walk alongside to help them through, hopefully unlocking them to move into success? What might that conversation start looking like from the beginning?
SPEAKER_03:First, the evaluation. What's working? What's not working, right? Because we need to know what is happening in your business. And then on top of that, I want to hear what your offer is about and I want to hear it clearly. So a lot of the times I'll get on phone with people or ask people about their businesses and they're like, well, yeah, so I do a little of this and then, you know, a little of that. And I'm like, OK, so what do you do? How do you help me? Right. So in the clear articulation as well, if a confused mind doesn't buy, that's what we know. So if I'm confused, they're confused. My customer is confused. So help me understand what your business is about, why it's so amazing, and why I should want it right now. I want to know those things. So we're going to find out what's not working, what is working. We're going to find out what your offer is, and then obviously work on the beliefs and things that are behind that offer. Because if I'm not believing in myself, I'm not believing in my offer, and I'm not believing in my clients, then it's like, This
SPEAKER_02:ain't really going to work. And that sounds so simple, but from having done that a little bit, it's actually really hard work. It requires a lot of confidence building, understanding, clarity, diving in. And I imagine what you just described there, that probably takes some time depending on where the person is at and where they want to go, what that starting point is.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Because I think also business... our businesses, doing this as a solo entrepreneur, all of it, we are in uncertainty all the time. But what I like to remember is that life is uncertain. I don't know what's going on right now. My husband could be at the gym or he could be dead. That sounds morbid. But that's kind of true. But my brain isn't worried about that because there's enough evidence for that not to be true. In my business, if I'm newer... If I'm starting, if I'm not getting clients, I don't have the evidence right now to believe it. And so I have to believe before I see the evidence, which is where all the belief work comes in, right? Which is hard. It's very hard to do when I'm not seeing that circumstance. And so what do I want to believe about this? And how long am I willing to give this? I always ask people, how long are you willing to give your dream?
SPEAKER_02:Because that touches on the other part of the equation, which is, yes, your client has worth. Yes, they probably could do it. Is it worth the effort versus something else, right? Not everyone is cut out to do everything they dream about. Given enough time and resources, probably. But is that how we want to spend our lives?
SPEAKER_03:And I think there's so much to do in our lives. Like we could be going for these businesses and are we burning out? Is this eating? Is this all I'm doing? And I'm not doing any other hobbies. Like you just said, Joshua, I went on a jog in the woods. I'm like, that's amazing. Right. I'm outside. I'm jogging. I'm doing stuff. For me, I'm like, I want to go do this dance class. I want to go teach this thing today. I want to go do other things because my life isn't just about my business. Right. There are other things and that's where we find other joy, other passions. But I think when we get into this one track thinking, that could also make this not an enjoyable process. This is not fun anymore.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, that is. I've been there. Yes, I completely resonate with that. So kind of wrapping up here, what if someone... I just kind of heard this. They're like, I am curious about talking to Monica further. What's the easiest way to do that? And what would that initial process look like for that first contact?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So they can go to my website. It's MonicaAvalos.com. That's Monica with a K. A-V as in victory. A-L-O-S.com. And from there, you can connect to all of my socials. So everything's on there. You can email me directly and you can get on my calendar. And in our initial consult is where we will find out what's been going on for you, what is it that you want, and how I can help you get there.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. Is there anything we haven't asked or that you would love to chat about next time? Kind of just thinking through what we talked through. Man, you guys ask some great
SPEAKER_03:questions. So, you know, I just think that one thing I would like to leave everybody with is understanding our reasons why we're doing this. Like, why are you doing the things you do? What are your reasons why? And do you love those reasons? Because that's what everything comes back down to. I
SPEAKER_02:love it. Well, thank you so much. I think we'll wrap on that. Thank
SPEAKER_03:you. This was a pleasure. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Appreciate the time. We'll be back next week with another episode. And email at fractional.fm if you have any feedback. Thank you. Thank you.
