Forever Motoring
The Dreamscape of Motoring with Jordan Cornille
Jordan Cornille, the calm, composed, creative co-founder of Curtiss Motorcycles, opens us to the dreamscape of motoring. We talk about the ways dreams come true, how motoring has become the terrain of his own career as a designer and motoring strategist, and the importance of reframing the role motoring plays in our lives. We also discuss how all this might move us towards a more sustainable global future.
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More about the College for Creative Studies in Detroit.
Jordan Cornille, the calm, composed, creative co-founder of Curtiss Motorcycles, opens us to the dreamscape of motoring. We talk about the ways dreams come true, how motoring has become the terrain of his own career as a designer and motoring strategist, and the importance of reframing the role motoring plays in our lives. We also discuss how all this might move us towards a more sustainable global future.
Sign up here for our newsletter about Ecological Mobilities.
More about the College for Creative Studies in Detroit.
Hello, everyone. I'm so glad you're here today. We have the designer and motoring strategist, Jordan Cornille on the show. He's a graduate from the elite CCS transportation design program in Detroit. The college for creative studies. His first motorcycle design was a spectacular looking E-Twin Zeus. He's also a co-founder of Curtiss motorcycles. And a big fan of a man named Glenn Curtiss. Have you ever heard of Glenn Curtiss? For those who haven't, we've got some shows coming up on him. He was an early bicycle and motorcycle maker in the United States. And he's really the man who started the aviation business in America. And deserves as much credit as the Wright brothers when it comes to that. But still most people have never heard of him. Even Jordan admits he'd never heard of him as you'll hear on this podcast. And Jordan's a person very studied in the art of transportation, but he just hadn't come across Glen Curtiss. Until about eight years ago when he and Matt Chambers started dreaming up ways to create ecological, motoring or sustainable motoring that could have the spirit and style of some of the best of America's transportation creations. And though Pierre Terreblanche had turned Matt towards a similar road, it was not an easy or obvious turn back then. And so it was only later when Jordan Cornille came into view that the path was illuminated. And Matt and Jordan started a new company together called Curtiss towards building luxury electric motorcycles. And now this whole new world is opened up for everyone. And as Jordan tells it, that world is really one that revolves around family and all the different ways that humans become family to one another. For Jordan, of course his wife and his baby daughter move him more than anything. But he also sees Matt and JT Nesbitt and the others that he works with at Curtiss as a sort of family. Which is something pretty astonishing because as you'll hear, Matt and JT were his early heroes i n the field before he'd even met them. Uh, and now he works with them. And even maybe thinks of them as family, Perhaps there's ways that everyone in the motoring world shares something like kinship, because we all have to figure out these familiar motoring ties if we want to survive and thrive ecologically, especially when it comes to monitoring. And Jordan seems to think that the best way to do that is to rethink our relationship to objects and to the things we buy. Maybe not considering it, just stuff we're going to eventually discard. Objects, like the little red wagon that he mentions that his grandfather used to pull him around in when he was a kid or maybe it's your daughter or son's first handcrafted little wooden bike. These are objects to be kept and passed down over generations. Jordan says and an electric motorcycle is a work of art like that too. Um, maybe all the ways we move through the world could be. Those kinds of objects, things that last forever. At least that's how Jordan sees it. Uh, as something for dreaming and desire and meaning. Jordan's dad used to tell him stories when they were riding in the car. When Jordan was just a little boy. Maybe even when they were taking his mom's minivan somewhere, you know, his dad would just turn these vehicles into spaceships or horses, or I don't know, vehicles that could move into the past or the future, or even up to the stars. And those became some of Jordan's fondest and most imaginative memories, those rides in the car with his dad. And now with his own daughter, he does something similar and hopes to pass on that same kind of dreaming. So this word dreaming is something that Jordan raises quite a few times here in our conversation. And by the end of it, he's connected that word dreaming to another word, which is desire and meaning as well. And so these words, dreaming desire and meaning sort of set out this path for how Jordan sees forever motoring. I hope you enjoy this conversation. And let's go. Hey Jordan, thanks for being here today.
Jordan:Hello, how are you?
Andrea:I'm good. So this is a podcast about motoring, specifically forever motoring, and we're exploring that word in many different ways. So just to start today, I wonder if you could think back and tell us about an early experience of motoring or something that moved you
Jordan:I've got a lot of early memories of motoring. Um, they might not be exactly what people would expect, but I've got early, early memories whether it's, riding on my grandpa's lap, on his lawnmower while he's mowing the lawn on a Sunday afternoon. Um, riding in the back of a a little red wagon, like a radio flyer. We would tie it up to a bicycle and my grandpa would ride the bike and kind of pull us along. Sometimes we'd fall out and get hurt, but those were fun memories, me with my siblings. And then some of my favorite early motoring memories are just kind of sitting in the back of my car with my dad driving when I was a little boy. And my dad would pretend that the car is some alternate mode of transportation, whether it was a motorcycle or a race car, or he'd pretend to be the pilot of an airplane or a space shuttle. And, and so I think some of my earliest motoring memories are really tied to sort of nurturing imagination, if you will, which is, which is kind of interesting.
Andrea:Yeah, it is. It sounds like you were being transported in more ways than one. It's wonderful that your dad did that. It's very imaginative.
Jordan:Yeah. It's something now as a, now as a new dad, I, I, I imitate it sometimes with my little daughter Cause, cause it is one of my, it's one of my fondest memories when I'm little.
Andrea:That's wonderful. Little, yeah. I guess, I guess that means you want her to feel the way you felt in those moments.
Jordan:I think so. I think because it's such a, it's such a happy memory. Something that I've held onto for so long. Mm-hmm. That it's in sort of an easy thing to share with her, I guess.
Andrea:Yeah. I think that says something about motoring in, in a kind of larger context too, about how it connects us through times and generations, and also how it's a a sensory experience, right? It's not just, cool cars and motorbikes, which we can also get fascinated by at times. Have you thought much about that, about the larger ideas of motoring?
Jordan:Yeah. And, a lot of it ties back to that memory of, of my dad in that I, I sort of relate motoring to, to kind of a, a dream, if you will, or this, this possibility of anything. You know, my mom's minivan could have been the space shuttle. So what is motoring? Motoring can, can open up this dream-like world that's so, uh, freeing and, and happy and peaceful. that's something that really entices me to motoring.
Andrea:Yeah, that's true. It's about going places, but it can also be places in your mind, imaginary places, it's also about this going to new places right? And Stretching what's possible.
Jordan:Yeah, absolutely. Another, another memory I have, for a few years during my childhood, I lived in Southeast Asia. I lived in Indonesia and, and motoring took on a whole, a whole other form over there because in, in Jakarta specifically, there would just be hundreds of thousands of scooters and mopeds and. That is motoring no matter what you need motoring to be, whether it's transporting your goods, whether it's transporting your family of five, um,
Andrea:when were you there?
Jordan:Uh, I lived there when I was in middle school, so the early teens. Yep.
Andrea:Yeah. So that made a big impression,. And That's a really different concept of movement. just being in that movement feels different, doesn't it?
Jordan:For sure. It's kind of this, this organized chaos. It feels like what, what you see shouldn't be working, but it does somehow, you know, like an ant colony or something. And there's something beautiful about that, and it just seems like it should be impossible, but it's not.
Andrea:That speaks to another thing that can happen with transportation and movement and motoring is that we can get overwhelmed a bit. It can be so much, and especially when it's a really new sensory experience, so, on that note, trying something new and also the familiar of motoring, it sounds like it was always a special experience for you, but did you grow up thinking, as a little boy, like, okay, I wanna work with cars or motorcycles?
Jordan:Not, not specifically. I wouldn't classify myself as a traditional gear head or anything like that. Okay. I did always dream of, of, of something vehicle related. You know, my, my first dream was probably to be a, a firefighter, you know, driving the fire truck and then for some time I wanted to be a pilot. I loved the idea of taking to the air and then I sort of fell in love with cars in high school, I guess. So there was always, a connective tissue there. So how did, what, how did you end up going to college for what you went for, which is your first, tell us where you ended up. I went to the College for Creative Studies in Detroit and studied traditional automotive design. I wound up there because of, Matt and JT actually. It was in early high school when I came across a picture of the Wraith that they had worked on together and, and designed, um, just on an internet article or something. And the Wraith just totally took me away. It was the first time I had ever really looked at a motorcycle specifically even. And I remember it being the first moment in time in my life when I had this conscious recognition that products are designed and created. I had never really thought about that up to this point, but the Wraith made me, because it was so avan garde and unique and, and cool and beautiful that it made me ask myself, who, who came up with this? How do you create this? How do you decide something can look so radical and and different from everything else? And the Wraith actually brought me to the world of, of design, and that's what, that's what kind of led me to automotive design in Detroit. Yeah. So Matt Chambers and, JT Nesbe, and that was Confederate at the time. And that was what their third bike Yeah. That, that was, that was the company's third bike. It was the second that JT and Matt had worked on together.
Andrea:So you saw that and you thought you wanna be able to create something that has that effect on other people that this bike had had on you. Was that kind of the, or was it just Yeah, exactly. Total
Jordan:curiosity. I think, I think up to that point, I had never seen a motorcycle that didn't look like a motorcycle. And the Wraith didn't really look like a motorcycle to me. in the way that people, man, imagine a motorcycle. So, it was just so fun to discover and realize that maybe getting involved in that you could hopefully have that impact. Wherever the path took me. I didn't even specifically say I'm gonna design motorcycles or even I'm gonna design cars, just products. But can I, if I go down this path, can I create a TV that you wouldn't think of as a TV or, or a, or a drinking glass or a car or a boat. Okay. So, so, so, so really just kind of open up this, this dreamlike date for me, I think. Mm-hmm.
Andrea:So it's almost like this kind of uncanny experience where the world isn't quite what you thought it was, or sort of jolt that you liked about this Yeah. Idea of design. Yeah. But where were living at the time, why did you go all the way to Detroit? Or were you living near Detroit?
Jordan:I lived in New Hampshire in New England. Okay. That's where I spent most of my childhood. Um, and when I started researching and diving into the world of automotive design, I learned that it's a fairly specialized skill and it's not taught at, you know, every state school. So there were, there's a handful in the country that are considered the top and, and Detroit CCS was definitely. One of the best.
Andrea:So yeah, I guess so. You're right there with the big three, right? Did they play a big part in the
Jordan:college? They definitely, they definitely did the, the building where most of my classes were at CCS, uh, was the original GM headquarters and design centers. So my studio classes where we designed cars for the semester were kind of right up there where Parley Earl and Bill Mitchell and, and those guys were designing cars in GM's heyday. Oh
Andrea:my, that's pretty exciting. Did you realize at the time, how special it was? Or was it all a process of sort of discovering all those people once you were there, you definitely, you
Jordan:definitely realized how special it is, whether you know a lot about that history or not, the building is almost like a museum itself. So you walk in and you just, there's something almost spiritual about it when you, when you go up to those top floors of that building and overlook downtown Detroit and.
Andrea:Yeah, I've been in some of those buildings in the, some of the early factories. Definitely has a spacial resonance still. It does, for
Jordan:sure.
Andrea:Yeah. So it almost seems too perfect that the reason you went to school was this photo that you saw of Matt Chambers and JT Nesbitt and now, you ended up working with them. Did it how did that happen? Did it happen soon after your schooling? Yeah. Tell
Jordan:us that it, it happened, uh, kind of before school ended even. It was just good timing, that during my senior year, I started applying to, to companies preparing for what's next and I was applying to the car companies, the big three in downtown, et cetera. And, um, I decided to send my portfolio and resume to Matt for whatever reason, I never expected to hear anything back. You know, kids in school would say, oh, I should send my portfolio to Ferrari. But you don't, you don't expect, you don't expect to call back, that's for sure. Um, but one afternoon I, wrote a cover letter to Matt probably telling him the story about how he inspired me to be here in the first place. Um, and he called me back really quick. He called me back like half an hour later and offered me the job
Andrea:that must have been one of those moments too, almost like looking at the Wraith kind of out of your body experience. It was
Jordan:definitely kind of a pinch, a pinch me moment. It was also like, is this real? Yeah. Um, I guess I'll find out when I drive down there after I graduate. Um, so it, it did sort of feel good to be true too good to be true cuz it was it was, yeah, it was just very
Andrea:exciting. Yeah, definitely. But looking at it now, it sort of fits, doesn't it? I mean, it's definitely the spirit of that bike that you first saw and that very act of just being so bold to send Matt, the, the, uh, email is probably exactly the kind of thing that would get his attention. It just fits very well, doesn't it, with that spirit of the company in a way. I
Jordan:think so, yeah. I think it does. I think everything felt very aligned and just right.
Andrea:So tell me what happened then. So you jump in your car and you drive to where, where, where was it at the time? New Orleans or when Birmingham, or where was Matt in the
Jordan:company? Birmingham. Yep. Okay. Me and my dad loaded up a car and drove down to Birmingham. I was gonna start on a Monday, but we got down on a, on a Friday. So we, we stopped by. The office to, to meet Matt in person and just see where I'd be working, make sure it actually was real. Mm-hmm. Before my dad left, was
Andrea:he concerned? I'd like to try to imagine that car ride down where your dad's kind of the same man who had, uh, made the car into a vehicle that could take you anywhere, was gonna, I think
Jordan:my dad was as excited as me cause he knew this was, he, he, he knew that this was the company that had led me down this path. And so, so he knew I was excited and that's all that mattered to him. So, yeah. But it was great. We, we met Matt, and Matt took us up to lunch and Matt told us more about the company. It was the first time I saw motorcycles in person and
Andrea:Was it as striking as seeing it in the magazine?
Jordan:More, more. So it's, it's,, it's something that you do have to see those motorcycles in person and see the material and touch the material to, to truly understand really how special they are. they photograph great and their, and their designs are so radical and novel and, and exotic that they'll capture your attention of course in, in photos. But when you see them in person, it really takes them to a whole nother level. And you see this attention to detail and the part fitment and the materials that, that, when you see'em in person, you know, they're really something special beyond. Um, a unique point of view in terms of design.
Andrea:Mm-hmm. That's a similar feeling to the one where you're talking about, of this transcendent kind of, it's almost like, look like a wild animal kind of is in your presence, when you kind of see it in person, it is this, it almost feels li living. You guys talk about that a lot. That, that the bikes are alive or organic. Um, I think it, they do tend to kind of exude that in some strange way.
Jordan:They do. They do. They have, they have this sort of presence, you know, they feel. When you stand around them, you, you feel compelled to walk around them and get a 360 degree view. You wanna touch them in that sense that they're sort of an artwork or sometimes they, it almost feels like you're in the presence of some sort of relic. They just feel powerful. Not in terms of horsepower, but in terms of presence. It's, it is really special.
Andrea:Yeah. And what do you think that has to do with the materials? The materials that are used are always natural and raw in a way. But it also probably has to do with the people who are creating it. And what is going into the bike or what do you think?
Jordan:I think it does have a lot to do with the people and what goes into it., I think there's so much passion infused in terms of the early stages of the design and the craftsmanship of each individual bike itself. But you, you, you really feel like everyone that had a hand in this put everything they had into it and that they're proud of it and that they enjoy what they do. I think that really comes across is that the people that are working on them are, are enjoying their work.
Andrea:Yeah. Or at least giving it sort of everything, their attention, waking up and going to sleep with it in their mind, but Absolutely. Yeah. So you come here with your dad and everything's kind of okay and it's, it's fine and it is legitimate and the dream is real. And so you start working with Matt, but what did that, what was going on? They had just finished a bike, I think at the time, or, uh, was it with Pi Pierre
Jordan:or, it was right after Pierre. Um, and they were just wrapping up the design of the P 51 fighter with Pierre Tela. Yep. And that that product was getting ready for production. They were wrapping up a few things and I helped wrap up a few minor components on, on that product. But really the, the first day I walked in and, and Matt and I didn't have much of a chat. He just told me to go to my office and start sketching, uh, what could come next. Mm-hmm. And I did, and I did hundreds of sketches the first week and Matt kind of left me alone, more or less the first few days. I just did hundreds of sketches and we went out into the main air main entrance of the building and hung'em up all on the wall. And we would ponder them and just start exploring, exploring the possibilities of what would be.
Andrea:Had you thought that that was how it was gonna go? Were you prepared? Did you have some ideas in mind or
Jordan:were you I didn't, I, I didn't have any expectations. I had, I had expectations when I sent to my resume, and that was either I wouldn't hear from him, or an assistant would reach out and set up an interview, and then there'd be another interview. And, and when, when Matt just called me half an hour later and offered me a job mm-hmm. I, I kind of threw all my expectations out the window before I arrived on my first
Andrea:day. Well, that was probably the one thing that you needed to do, actually, to work well with him, or he's definitely not, typical in any way. But how did it feel to first meet him? Did you think, okay, this is gonna work, or was it just all a bit unclear?
Jordan:No, I, I felt, I felt excited. Matt had a big smile on his face when I first saw him, and I could tell he was excited to have someone fresh and, and probably young too, and almost, almost naive and I think that gives you this whole world of possibilities. And I think he saw that from the beginning. I think he was excited to, to be able to work with someone that's not coming from another brand, that doesn't have these, these preconceived ideas or biases. You know, I was just kind of a blank slate for the company. And I think Matt saw a lot of advantages in that. So he was excited. I could see that. That made me really excited. I definitely, I felt like it was gonna be a long-term relationship from the start.
Andrea:There is a lot of power right. In that youth and coming fresh and being so excited and it's kind of wonderful that instead of trying to. Direct you or fit you into something. He was just like, let's like, you know, explore. That's, um, it's a little unusual, isn't it? But do you think that had a, do you think that had a positive influence?
Jordan:I think for sure. I think there's, there's pros and cons to experience. You know, you could hire someone that's been in the industry for, for 20 years and they have this wealth of knowledge and experience and they know how things are done and they know how things work. And that of course has its advantages. But it could have some cons too. I think when Matt saw this young kid walk into the office who's never designed a production vehicle at all, whether it's a car or a motorcycle, I think he saw this sort of dreamer. And so he sent me into an office with a pen and a blank pad of paper and just told me to, to draw. And were most of the things I sketched up feasible. Uh, not, not from the start, but they certainly could have led to to new fresh ideas.
Andrea:So you were sketching all this in 2d, didn't just like putting them on the walls. That's how I'm imagining it.
Jordan:Just literally pen on pen on paper and then a put a piece of scotch tape on the paper and stick it to the wall and step back and look at it. I love that. And usually, and usually point out what's wrong with it.
Andrea:So it was almost like, uh, a good way for you both to get to know each other and what you liked and what you didn't. But it sounds like at first it didn't go so well or, I mean it went well as far as the exploration, but you didn't really get anything that you both liked at first or what was happening?
Jordan:We spent, we spent a lot of time doing that. And there are a lot of cool things in there. There are a lot of cool sketches. Uh, we started out sketching around the power train of the Fighter that they're bringing into production. You know, how can we take this platform, and modularly apply it to a new style or a new form? Um, and there's a lot of cool stuff, but there's nothing that really took it to the next level beyond simply a restyling. There, there was nothing super fresh and innovative in there. But there's, there are definitely cool sketches, and there were some designs that we could have brought to production that probably would've sold great, but they weren't, they weren't pushing motorcycling or the motorcycle industry by any means, you know, into the future.
Andrea:So they weren't at that edge, they weren't quite popping with that, whatever that is. That transformative, strange animal, I don't know, whatever you were trying to describe earlier. That's kind of what you were both looking for
Jordan:yeah. It hadn't quite come, you know, that you would point to some and say, Ooh, that that's really cool, you know? Mm-hmm. That one looks slick. That would look great out on the road, but there was nothing where you saw it and it just you know, dropped your jaw and made you say, we have to make that. Mm-hmm. That, that hadn't, that hadn't hit for a little while. And I think that's what we were looking for. We were fresh in the phase. You don't wanna rush it. Mm-hmm. The new bike still hasn't even started, uh, customer deliveries yet. So you have some time and, and you, you do wanna find that thing that you just, you know, it keeps you up at night cuz you just have to make it.
Andrea:And you did find it eventually, but not probably in the way either of you really expected. Because up till then the company was only making ICEs, right? Internal combustion engine motorcycles. So I guess all the sketches were for those, right?
Jordan:They were, and they were originally around the X 1 32 V-Twin engine that was in the Fighter. And when we kind of had exhausted ideas around that, we started branching out, we started exploring bringing in different types of motors, 90 degree V twins, boxer twins. We started branching out within ICE uh, but we had the same dilemma, nothing that we had to make, nothing that was really moving, moving the ball down the field. Um, And I remember sitting in the office one evening, six, 6:30 PM and I asked Matt if he had ever dabbled in EV and I expected him to say no. But he told me yes. He, he told me when he was working with Pierre Terblanche, they had explored, uh, EV powertrains and designs and he showed me some of the sketches they had done and there was some really interesting stuff. And I think we both thought maybe this is what we're looking for. Let's start playing around with this. So the next day I basically started that sketch program from the start as if it was my first day. But with, with the possibilities of EV technology.
Andrea:That's quite a turn. Did it just come to you too? Or had you been thinking about electric vehicles?
Jordan:I hadn't been thinking about'em all that much. but when I asked Matt and he said they had explored with it, I thought maybe this is, maybe this opens up, some new possibilities, with the sketch program, maybe there are different packaging opportunities, different performance capabilities. Um, and so that was something fresh that we were looking for. And I think it, it got us excited to kind of say, okay, let's, let's just pretend we're starting from the beginning again, but with this technology, what could we do there? And does that get us excited?
Andrea:Yeah. So you started to fill the spark, what was kind of the state of electronic electronic vehicles then. That was around 2015 or so, or when was
Jordan:that? That was, yeah, that was, it was probably fall 2015. Okay. Um,
Andrea:there wasn't the craze of Tesla, for example, then, right? Or was
Jordan:it just starting? No, there, there, there wasn't the craze. Maybe the, the craze was gonna be starting within the year or so. Mm-hmm. Tesla had been around for a little bit. They were still really pricey, um, in the world of motorcycles. Zero motorcycles had been around for a few years, but hadn't, hadn't caught on,, in terms of going viral by any means. So the state of the EV world was, was still pretty quiet, if you will.
Andrea:So it was a bit of a. A risk in even more of a way than it might, it might seem today. But you mentioned the V-twin, and this is important, for Curtiss. Glenn Curtiss, the name of the company that you now work with Matt for, which we're about to get to, how that happened but h how does, that's been so important with, with the ICEs and you both knew that, and you'd been drawing a lot of sketches like that. So did you think, okay, how are we gonna get this with the EV? Seems a little dissonant.
Jordan:Yeah. There are definitely discussions had about what do you, what do you carry over, you know, the iconic American V-Twin that Glenn Curtiss first built in 1902, a year before Harley was even founded. It just went on to become arguably the most, popular. Well known, thought out, iconic powertrain in the world. Iconic, that's the word I was looking for. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Um, the American V-twin, it's just an absolute icon for sure. What does that, how does that translate to EV if it does at all? Uh, the, the sound, the, the aesthetic of it? Yeah.
Andrea:Just the look of those bikes, that double
Jordan:it's very, it's very special. You know, the, the, the V- Twins that Matt had used in his confederates always had just this very powerful, the elegant look. When I was in school, we had a, a studio sponsored by Harley Davidson, and the chief of design came in and he described their V-Twin as the diamond within the, the ring setting. You know, we think of it as, oh, wow. As the diamond, as the jewel. And, and that's a great way to think of it, especially for the American V-Twin. Such an iconic. Uh,, platform. So we had discussions about what, what does it mean to go EV, especially as an American manufacturer and, and how do you fill those shoes? If it's, it's, you're walking away from that, what are you walking into? And that was a problem from the very beginning that needed some sort of solution.
Andrea:Yeah. The solution you found is pretty exciting. I guess it was the Zeus right prototype that we, we should get around to talking about that. Was the first, the first kind of coming together of all these ideas, or was it?
Jordan:It was, it was. W hen we decided to build the Zeus, we had a handful of forms and styles that we had settled on. That was kind of when we were finding Curtiss 2.0, figuring out what it was gonna be. How are we gonna launch the brand, introduce the brand to the world. Um, and we had settled on the Zeus and we were still trying to figure out what Curtiss is going to be and what we want Curtiss to stand for. And at the time we were enamored by the capabilities of the EV technology, the power and the torque. And this was just coming off of Confederate and these big, powerful, strong, V- twins. And so we were still a little bit on that sort of high, if you will. And so we took two, um, electric motors and put them together on one shaft in one casing. We, we branded it the E-Twin. I love that
Andrea:Had that, anything like that been done before. Seems almost a simple thing to try,
Jordan:but it, it was, it was surprisingly simple to do. We hadn't discovered it before, but it was surprisingly simple to do it. It created some packaging issues that we later decided, weren't gonna work outside of the motor, but in terms of doing the motor as an E-Twin, it, it was a relatively elegant solution. And, and it sounded cool. It looked cool. It had a ton of power. It had a ton of torque.
Andrea:Yeah, definitely looked really
Jordan:cool. That's what we decided to, yeah.
Andrea:Yeah. Just the, where you can just see the two engines. It's beautiful.
Jordan:It is, it is. it has sort of an equally powerful look as the V twins did, so it had some successes for sure.
Andrea:So this is also the time period that Confederate was changing to Curtis. Was that also kind of a discussion that you and Matt had and decided and was that tied to this total, like, all in, we're gonna go electric, we're restarting this rebirth. It feels like, in a way,
Jordan:It wasn't obvious to us at the start what to do. When we first started sketching electric motorcycles, I was leaving them unbranded for a little while and then we started sketching them with Confederate branding and Curtiss branding. At one point Matt had mentioned to me that he had just recently gotten the Curtis trademark, which I thought was amazing. And of course he's told the story about how it was the easiest trademark he's ever gotten, which
Andrea:blows my mind hard to believe. People just don't know Glenn Curtiss somehow he's like such a hero in aviation and motorcycles in car.
Jordan:I, I was ashamed that I had never learned about him. You know, my, my daughter is certainly gonna learn about him cuz he's, he's the man that changed our country and the, our world for sure. He is an amazing guy. He should be taught right alongside Edison and the Wright brothers,
Andrea:but he not, maybe he can drive the plane that your daughter is in, which is actually your car when you're telling her the stories or That's a good,
Jordan:that's a good idea. Maybe. He'll yeah. So yeah, it wasn't obvious at first. It, it took us a while. We were sketching Electric Confederates. Electric Curtiss, and at one point in June, 2016. Our third co-founder, who is our, our first and biggest investor in the brand, kind of pushed us over the edge. And it was that night we decided, let's go all in on Curtiss. If we're gonna do this, let's do it. Right. Let's go all in. let's be able to be laser focused. 100% on one thing. Let's not divide our attention. So we said, we're starting fresh, we're going electric, we're gonna be Curtiss.
Andrea:And that happened at night. Were you together or were you separate what was that night like? I don't know if what was going on that
Jordan:happened that happened, uh, towards the end of the day, we got the email in, from our investor that pushed us over to the edge, and, and Matt said, let's do it. And I was fully on board. I said, let's do it. So we, we went home. We got some sleep. We came in the next morning and we were Curtiss. Wow. We had to, we, we had to make it formal and,, and legal and do all that stuff. Mm-hmm. But in our minds, the next morning we were Curtiss here on and out and it was, it was exciting. Walking in the doors that morning it was exciting as, as my first day of work. So it felt like it, it was the first day of
Andrea:work at Curtiss. Another rebirth And your role was different too, right? And instead of coming into a company, you're now sort of starting a company in a way.
Jordan:It definitely felt different. I felt,, so much more involved in the company as a whole and the brand, I wasn't just kind of a new, fresh, young kid, lowest on the totem pole sketcher. I was, I was right in there making these decisions with Matt, which felt crazy to be so young in making those decisions. But it shows you, within that year, cuz I had started with Matt June 15th, 2015. Um, so within a year we just had created this, this wonderful relationship and I knew he trusted me and really took consideration in what I would say and, and listened to my ideas and respected my ideas as I did his. Um, so it said a lot about, about the relationship we had created in a year.
Andrea:It definitely does. There's something he gives you if, when it works with Matt, um, there's something really special that happens there, that there's some kind of interaction or freedom to explore, but also be supported that happens. That doesn't often happen in the motoring world when it comes to, designing and building for someone who owns the company.
Jordan:He puts a lot of trust into the people he works with. And, and with that trust comes, comes all the support you'll ever need. And it comes with the right amount of, of critique and criticism, which is all supportive. It really is, special to work with him.
Andrea:So now we're up to Curtiss, which formed officially in 2016. Um, how do you think of your role and in this, in the company, in the creative, in the creation of, of the bikes that were to come.
Jordan:My role today. I, I see it. I, I feel like it has sort of evolved almost, almost Matt's chief of staff, if you will. I don't touch everything, but I touch almost everything in the company with Matt, almost like an operations guy. I still work a lot in design and styling, and we work on future, future facing product portfolio, what's going to come over the next several years, beyond what we're doing right now. And then Matt and I spend a lot of time on, on brand, how we want to present our brand, the story we want to tell with our brand, uh, strategy moving forward, whether it's product or financial, anything creative. So you're both really
Andrea:full into every part of it, more or less.
Jordan:We, we really are. and we listen to each other a lot and we share. Our thoughts and we're honest with each other. Um, it's a lot of fun. It's one of the things I love about working with such a small team is that you do get to touch so many areas of the company that it doesn't come so monotonous. Mm-hmm.
Andrea:Well, I wanna know how, how you first heard of JT Nesbitt and how you met him and, cause he's another one of those team members that we, we should discuss a bit. But first, let's go back to the Zeus just for a minute. I know it was a big deal. Uh, it got a lot of press. It was beautiful. but it, it never quite went into production, right? Can you just gimme a little recap of the Zeus?
Jordan:Yeah. It never did,, it never did get into production. We introduced it in May, 2018 at the Quail motorcycle gathering. And that was, that was when we introduced the brand publicly to the world. Yeah. Wow. Um, so we had, we had the press at, at our tent, and we showed the bike and we introduced the brand and we talked about Glen and talked about what we were doing. And it was very well received. Alan Cathcart rode it and he loved it. Um, but there's always, we, we always had this feeling and the realization we came to with the Zeus was that what we had actually done was designed an electric Confederate. it was still about, uh, kind of this raw, primitive. Power and, and torque and sort of badassery. Mm-hmm.
Andrea:Yeah. The E-Twin is a sketch of that. I mean, it's, it's strong and beautiful in its own right,
Jordan:but mm-hmm. Yes. It, it is. And it ticked all those boxes. Mm-hmm. Beautifully. But, but all the boxes, it, it, it was ticking. It was still Confederate. So it didn't feel truly like a Curtiss to us. Hmm. Uh, just a, just a few months after that event, Matt had told me that he had started talking to jt, who I was very fond of. he had worked on the Wraith, so of course I knew who he was. He's kind of the designer that led me to design.
Andrea:He's definitely one of those designers people know,
Jordan:he, he is, especially in the motorcycle world, but even outside of it. And, if I, if I had a design hero, it was JT Nesbitt. And so the idea that Matt was considering bringing him onto the team, I was super excited. If he's willing to join up and, and bring his wealth of knowledge to our team,, let's do it.
Andrea:Do you remember when you first met him? Did you go down to New Orleans or How did that, do you, do you remember that first meeting? I,
Jordan:I do. I I had actually met JT a couple years earlier. He had come up and visited us in Birmingham. And he had showed us some of the stuff he was working on and he gave me a couple little design seminars. Cause I was still at the rookie and he was the seasoned veteran, the motorcycle design pro, if you will. He's always excited to share his knowledge and, and he, he is good at explaining things and, and teaching, but I wasn't sure if I'd ever see him again after that. It was a, it was a fun visit, but when I found out he'd be joining the team, I was super excited how many people get to meet their hero, let alone work with them. So it was very exciting
Andrea:that he was very unusual. Were you intimidated at all or were you just ready to go?
Jordan:I wasn't intimidated despite his six foot six stature. He's very kind and, and gentle and, uh, he's, he's always wanting his teammates to learn more. Uh, he's, he's a
Andrea:joy to work with. So did you and Matt and him, and was Pam around in, in, in all of this too? Did you all just kind of get together and discuss like, what are we gonna do? And it's gonna be electric, how are we gonna find the style that, that is Curtiss? What is Curtiss, did you have these discussions?
Jordan:little bit as a team, but as Matt does, Matt let JT do his thing and we kind of left JT alone for a little while. And, while JT was working on what he wanted to be working on, Matt and I spent more time on, on brand because we still weren't 100% satisfied with where we landed in terms of brand presentation and narrative. Matt and I really spent some time digging deep into Curtiss as a brand and, and the meaning behind Curtiss while, while JT was diving deep into the bike itself. And after some time, JT presented his work to us and we gave him the usual support and criticism. And he took that and rolled with that, and then eventually turned into, into the One that we see today, uh, over the course of several years. It was a long process, but JTs extremely thorough with his work. Mm-hmm. Um,
Andrea:he definitely lives and breathes it too.
Jordan:For sure. He absolutely does. There's no doubt about that.
Andrea:But he changed your E-Twin. So how did that, what, what happened? Something else incredible came out of it. Really an amazing innovation.
Jordan:Yeah. I think you're referencing our access centered design mm-hmm. Which is, our patented kind of primary innovation of the One. Conceptually, Matt and I knew that it kind of made sense to put the swing arm pivot on the axle of the motor, kind of the center line of the electric motor. Okay. And that would keep things super simple and, and as slim as possible. But our faux version of it, it wasn't direct drive like the axle center is. We kind of just had caps and the swing arm mounted around
Andrea:the center line, so you didn't have that shaft?
Jordan:It was, it was, no, it was located in the right real estate, but it didn't, it didn't have, uh, the function that our access center design has that JT came up with. So, so I think JT saw. What we had done on the Zeus. And he said, that's a really inelegant solution to the problem you're trying to solve, which it was. and so he solved it very elegantly by mounting the swing arm directly onto the shaft of the motorcycle. so the motor is driving the rear wheel directly. Um, it keeps the bike super narrow at that point, at a point where the motorcycle usually kind of keeps getting wider and wider. Mm-hmm. Um, and it keeps everything just perfectly centered on the motorcycle. It's a really beautiful, it's very minimal solution. It's very minimal minimalist in terms of engineering and design. It's a, it's a great solution. It is.
Andrea:I love it. So that's, that's even more interesting that it, it did kind of evolve
Jordan:a bit. It, it evolved and it needed a lot of, of evolution. Conceptually, Matt and I kind of knew what made sense, but we were not intelligent enough to, to figure out how to execute it at all. And
Andrea:or just maybe, yeah, there's different ways of being intelligent. It's
Jordan:a, a different form of intelligence, but it's a form of intelligence that JT has. He does naturally have that. He ca he, he came in and I think relatively simply created what is, without a doubt, the best way to make an electric
Andrea:motorcycle. For sure. It's super cool. Yeah. And, um, we should talk about Vinay a bit too, because there's other innovations and very cool things with the battery, and I'm not even sure what all he's done, but when did he come into the picture?
Jordan:Vinay came into the picture? I wanna say 2019 ish. Okay.
Andrea:So you had the
Jordan:design. We had the, the design conceptually was there, but there's still a lot of work to do to, to make it a production vehicle. It had to go through, many evolutions and there was a lot of engineering work to find out. And, and Vinay joined up and Vinay was fresh out of college and he didn't have a bunch of experience, but he was, uh, a sponge in terms of absorbing knowledge. He worked every day with JT the two of'em worked on every millimeter of the motorcycle. They both know it like the back of their hand
Andrea:A different form of intelligence.
Jordan:A different form of
Andrea:intelligence. Yeah,
Jordan:So he was, so, Vinay was, was absolutely instrumental in helping JT, get the Curtis One over the finish line and make it a real product.
Andrea:So what's, tell me now, you've been on, you've been on this bike, the Curtis one, and how does it compare to an ICE? Because of course people are very, loyal to their I C E and what's an L E V experience really like? I think Riding an
Jordan:electric vehicle, I think it's amazing. It's so simple and smooth and sort of, uh, majestic and peaceful. I, I'll preface it by saying I don't ride motorcycles a lot. I'm kind of a weird motorcycle designer that doesn't ride motorcycles. I have ridden motorcycles and I have my license. Mm-hmm. But I didn't have a ton of experience. I think for a few reasons. I think in, in recent years, there aren't a lot of motorcycle designs that have compelled me to say, I have to go buy that. Uh, growing up as a kid I was not allowed to own a motorcycle. It was my mother's rule. And yeah, my parents said, once you're out of college and in off our dime you can go buy a motorcycle cause we can't tell you what to do at that point. Uh, so for my whole life I wanted a motorcycle. I think I wanted a motorcycle cause I wasn't allowed to have one. Yeah. And so I was told myself the day I graduate college mom, I'm going out and buying, buying a motorcycle., the day I graduated college was also the day I was allowed to buy a motorcycle. And I think I felt a little compelled to do so when I was allowed to do it Right. But, but at the same time, nothing compelled me. There was nothing I had to have. There was nothing I really wanted to be seen on or ride. Nothing got me super excited. I figured the time would come. So I don't have a ton of bragging
Andrea:experience. Some. Yeah. It's good you bring that up, because the Curtis, it's opening up a whole new,, group of people who are interested in it. There's this kind of strange thing with the Curtis where we touched on it a little bit before. It's an art object. It's the technology. Um, you like to just be around it. I don't know. What do you think the Curtis One seems to be even more, um, Inclusive or opening the space to people who might not completely feel comfortable riding a motorcycle,
Jordan:It's so, it's so simple and approachable. Um, you know, the, the Confederates, they're so, they're so cool and exotic and badass. At the same time, they're very intimidating. Oh yeah. They're, they're, and I was nervous, you know, Matt would say, all right, go take one for ride. Cause I was scared of them. I didn't, I didn't wanna ride one, to be completely honest. No way. But I also didn't wanna say, no boss. I can't ride that. So I was nervous and they were intimidating. Um, they're just hard
Andrea:to control too. I mean, they are intimidating, but they're really powerful. Some of them depends which one I guess, but they
Jordan:are, Uh, the Curtis One, the first time I, I walked up to the one that I rode, not intimidated at all, and I probably should have been his hundred thousand dollars, uh mm-hmm. Beta prototype. One of, one of a kind. You don't wanna be the person that wrecks that. Mm-hmm. Uh, so, so I, I should have been intimidated, but I wasn't because I knew, I knew the technology in it. I knew that perfect balance that the axis center design gives it, that JT came up with that. I knew it was gonna be easy. I, I hopped on it. JT snapped a photo of me and I went off and it was as easy as could be. It was super fun. It was magical. It was, it was peaceful. It's just kind of you and a little bit of road noise and, but you still hear nature. There's nothing to do or think about in terms of controlling it. Mm-hmm. It's, it's really as easy as it could be. So even though I probably should have felt intimidated, I, I felt no intimidation. So approachable, very comfortable Sounds meditative almost. It does, it puts you at ease and they're really, you don't need to be thinking about anything. You don't need to be thinking about shifting a clutch. You don't need to be thinking about heat or, or where I can touch, where I have my legs. Mm-hmm. Yeah. None of, none of that. There's nothing to think about except the ride and your environment. And so it's just an absolute joy. What color
Andrea:was the first one you rode? I'm trying to just.
Jordan:It was black. it was black with a red battery. Very
Andrea:pretty. Oh, that's pretty. And where did you ride it to? Just around the neighborhood or?
Jordan:We were outside of the Barber Motorsports Museum in Birmingham. Oh, that's beautiful. Up there on that road. It's got some really beautiful, long winding roads. Mm-hmm. And there was, it had just started to drizzle. There was no one out on the road. It was a, it was a really wonderful ride.
Andrea:Hmm. Great first ride, absolutely. So, what's the sensory experience like? How is it different from the ICE and the LEV? You already said it a little bit, but do you think it loses anything? Let's be honest. A lot of people like this crazy explosion and noise and to where it really takes all of your attention and almost numbs you. It's almost like escaping to ride some of these ICEs, although it takes so much discipline too. But the LEV can can it compare to that? Really?
Jordan:I think they just, I don't think it loses anything., I think they just don't really compare. I think they're just two different experiences. Even though it's two wheels, it's a motorcycle, it's, it's two different activities in my mind, on the ICE you're very conscious of, of the machine and the mechanics and that can be really cool, especially if you're on something like a Confederate fighter. That's got this loud thumping roaring V-Twin that's just badass mm-hmm. It's like a, a fighter jet that's super cool. There's just something visceral about it.
Andrea:Yeah. You can feel the power of it in the sound.
Jordan:Yeah. And then on the other end, on, on the ev, uh, you hear the birds chirping and if it's nice weather, you just see that you're more conscious of your environment. I think, I think on the ICE, you're more conscious of the machine, and on the EV you're more conscious of the environment, but I think it's like the difference between, rock music or classical music. I think people can enjoy both, but they're just two different things.
Andrea:I like that. Or there would be some people who might really enjoy the meditative surfing, martial art, kind of LEV and some people who would,, want the noise and that's fine. Right. So, um, I'm wondering it's a little off the subject, but I'm wondering if, when we have these kind of conversations, it seems like all you do is sort of live and breathe, Curtiss and the motorcycles. And maybe it is that way, but I wonder what else inspires you in life that you sort of bring to Curtiss? what other interests do you have, Jordan?
Jordan:Inspiration? The first thing for me would be family outside of Curtis, I think. Matt probably feels like he's my stepdad cuz he's probably watched me grown up since I've started working at Curtiss. I got engaged, I got married, I had my first kid, I bought my first house. So I've gone through all these things. Family life is, is very important to me. It's spending time around my wife and daughter. It's what kind of builds my cup after a long day of putting in work for Curtiss. And kind of re-energizes me for the next day. You know, watching my daughter grow up. That's definitely my primary source of inspiration these days. How old is she? Um, but she's almost two now. So she's just going through this phase where she's just learning new things every day and getting faster and saying more words. So that's,
Andrea:Very inspiring. That's magical. How could it not be?
Jordan:And then aside from that, I just love, I love, observing and admiring any form of craft and design, whether it's fashion or local arts or architecture. I always have this appreciation for people that do design well and have a sense of craftsmanship. I find those sorts of things
Andrea:very inspiring. I can see after this conversation how it relates to your work with Curtiss because it is a kind of a family. There's something, all those themes actually are continuous, they sort of connect, right? That people who really care about what they're doing, the connection to art and design and objects that really mean something. That does become like a family and um, y with your people that you trust and love, like your wife and your child, but also your work work colleagues. You do kind of, you know, explore the world together. That's what makes it meaningful.
Jordan:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, Matt and I talk about sort of our dreams for the company, and I often tell Matt that I just have this vision in my head from, from the day we started. And that's that, I'm. I'm 80 years old and I have my grandkid on my lap. And I, and Curtiss is this powerful, sustaining great American brand. And I'm able to tell them that, I was there at the beginning of all of this. And I think that's something I'd like to instill in the culture and all of the people that come through Curtiss over the next few decades is, that sort of, passion and pride for what we're doing and, and it's something that you wanna share with the people you care about most. Cause it's something you're proud of. And. You love.
Andrea:And it's something you want to last, you want to pass on. And I think that speaks a bit to the way this bike is made too. Right. I'd like, you know, before we go to talk a little bit about this idea of the environment and ecology and what sustainability really means. Um, I mean, I, I hear what you're saying, uh, is kind of resonating with that, but maybe you could clarify it a little bit more for me.
Jordan:Yeah, for sure. When I talk about sustainability in, in the context of Curtis, I always use the term true sustainability. And that's sort of this, creation of something that's gonna last forever. It's sort of the, uh,, the anti planned obsolescence or anti fast fashion. So, uh, you know, buy, buy a pair of jeans that's gonna last you 10, 15 years. Don't buy a new pair of jeans every six months. I think that's real sustainability. I think that's sustainability. That's far more meaningful in the long term than just the clean technology that's in the bike itself. And so I think that's really, the important discussion that needs to be had when we talk about sustainability in our industry. And that's just something that if you instill that in the product, not only is it more sustainable, but I think it's more, it's more meaningful and it's something to be proud of.
Andrea:Uh when you're 80, you can look back and feel good about what you're telling your grandkids about.
Jordan:Absolutely. And when I'm 80, I can, I can hand off, uh, my Curtis one to, to my child or my grandchild. And it's in as good of condition as, as the day. I took delivery of it decades ago and we've upgraded the battery cells and put fresh tires on it. It's actually a better motorcycle than the day I took delivery of it. And, and I could leave this with you. With this incredible machine that was crafted decades and decades ago, but is getting better over time and is never gonna go away. It could be in the family forever. It could become this really special family heirloom.
Andrea:Absolutely. A vehicle all that memory.
Jordan:Exactly. And we didn't send 15 other motorcycles to the landfill over the course of those decades. We've always had this one in our garage and we've taken care of it and it's taken care of us. Well,
Andrea:I love that idea so much and, in the end, that's what we want. We want to have done something meaningful with our lives and to have something sort of represents that, that we can pass on to others, whatever it may be, that's the best use of any object. But at the same time, I have to say, you're a company and you wanna be profitable and. I think that that is actually a good definition of profit, but it's, is it the kind of definition of profit that works in the capitalist world that you're in? Or is it just you're gonna do this no matter what and set a new trajectory others can follow? I mean, how do you see that?
Jordan:No, I think it, I think it can definitely be profitable. I think you have to have some meaning to what you do, and I think that's, a valid thing for us to pursue. And it's a philosophy won't, we want to apply to all sorts of different categories. You know, we're starting so, so far up with the one, six figure motorcycle. But we're gonna work our work our way down. And I've imagined us working on all the way down to, to, you know, a toy that my daughter would ride around the house right now. But, but having that be something that, that she can save for her daughter in the future. This was the bike I learned to ride on and it still works great. You're gonna learn to ride on that bike. And, and so, so we're, I think we're able to apply this technology to such a vast array, um, within the spectrum of our portfolio that, there's always gonna be business to be had for sure.
Andrea:So, just to kind of finish up, you've already touched on it a little bit, but I guess I wonder about what you think about this idea of desire. I, it's, um, it's something that is talked about a lot desire and luxury and so on, and. I wonder, you know, you sort of made things happen in your life and you sort of, I don't know if it was consciously or unconsciously, but I wonder how you see this idea of desire and that you're actually putting this object into the world that other people want. How do you see all these things as, are they connected for you? This, the feeling you're giving someone of freedom and desire for the object and the experience of, of riding it and also, your own life and experience with motoring?
Jordan:I think so, yeah. I, I kind of link the word desire with the word dream, which I used before and, and sort of my motoring memories. Uh, you know, whatever you're riding on or in, there's just this, you can have these dreams and there's this possibility of being whatever you wanna be and, and making that happen. So, so for me, the desire and the dream are linked together. And I think, you know, the Curtis one is the perfect device for that. I like that
Andrea:you, that you link those. And it is interesting that you talked about this kind of dream space your dad opened up for, for you in terms of movement. And there is a, a kind of pure desire in that too, right? It's not wanting something, it's just, uh, motivation maybe is even better word, like being present to the world and being part of it. Overall, this time it's been, um, not quite 10 years, but it's been a while that you've been working with Matt and for Curtiss, and I guess your life has changed a lot in that time. So before we go, if you could just say something like, in your own life, personal, professional, whatever that, that you think of as a real, uh, moving moment. Something that's moved you, over this time. That you've been working with Curtiss this time or really of, of growing, becoming an adult and, and a man in, in a different way?
Jordan:Uh, I think it would go back to, to sending my resume to Matt and kind of starting the whole journey was, was the support I got from my family was, was always very moving cuz it was kind of a, a bold, crazy move. But my family and my loved ones and my buddies at school, there was never any doubt in anyone's mind. Uh, you know, so there's a lot of support for me doing what I wanted to do and not following the flock. Following the herd. Um, that was a moving moment, right at the very start of my journey with Curtiss.
Andrea:And that's one that the more you live, the more moving it becomes because you realize how unique it is actually to have, have people support you in that way and, and, and how hard it would've been without it, you know?
Jordan:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Andrea:It's always a bit of a group effort, I guess, moving. Mm-hmm. All right. Well thanks Jordan. It's been really great to talk to you as, and, um, I'm looking forward to, seeing more of what is to come over these next decades.
Jordan:Absolutely. There's a lot to come for sure. It's gonna be fun. It is,
Andrea:I'm sure. All right. Well, best of luck to you in everything. Thank you. Thank
Jordan:you for having me. Yep. Take care.
Andrea:You too. Bye. Bye.