Host (00:05):
Gay in America is an oral history podcast sharing experiences of gay people from all orientations, backgrounds, and ages in America. Our goal is to inspire each other to live our best gay lives and help us all understand that our shared experiences unite us as a community. Our guest today on the Gay In America podcast is making a difference for LGBTQA plus people in a multinational engineering company. She works for Dee's passion for giving LGBTQ plus employees. A voice at the top levels is making a big difference in the company. I'll shut up now and let her tell you how it all started and what keeps her going.
Dee (00:54):
I work in the HR field, but I am also a huge advocate in the lgbtq plus community and a huge engineering construction company that's super traditional. I am Dee Frazier. I'm originally from Talladega, Alabama, but I currently live in Knoxville, Tennessee. I am 30 years old and I'm excited to be here.
(01:21):
I am currently the global chair of the LGBTQ plus employee resource group. Getting more people on board, on ushering in a new era and recognizing that a lot of things that they were okay with years ago is not the case now. In that role, I advocate heavily for the lgbtq plus community within the company. I also help with reviewing any policy to see what we can do to make it more inclusive, change the language. Right now we're going through a review of how we can be on the corporate equality index, which will open a lot of doors. The company is very traditional. A lot of people don't understand a lot of the language of what does it mean about a pronoun. I'm wearing a pronoun shirt because I understand that it is new to so many people. So we focus on a lot of that awareness and education.
Host (02:15):
Dee is young, but she is making a difference at the top levels of a Fortune 500 company as part of the company's LGBTQA plus resource group. I wondered how she got her foot in that door.
Dee (02:28):
It happened out of nowhere to be kind of honest. I started as an intern with the company and I got introduced to employee resource groups that way. When I started with the company as a college hire, I was like, huh, maybe I can get involved in one of these. So I joined the women's group and then I saw this group. I was like, oh, it's newer. It is only been established since 2019, so it's not that old. And I started with the company in 2019, so it was very new and no one really had a footing of what it really meant. Somehow, I don't know, I end up volunteering or talking. I don't know. I end up in these situations because I talked to people and they're like, oh, we're going to get you next time, and that's exactly what happened. I talked about, oh, I want to participate in some activities. I got asked to be on the board. I stood in a position that was out in Equal Chair, which is a really great resource organization that helped educate companies and helped write policies for Fortune 500 companies and even more around LGBTQ plus workplace practices. Maybe two months into that, they're like, we need you to be the chair. So I was like, okay, well, why not? So I've been the chair of this group almost 18 months now, and it's almost my time to take off, but I'm going to be on the board as an advisor.
Host (03:59):
It sounded to me like a lot of extra volunteer work, so I asked her what impact she believes she's having.
Dee (04:06):
Honestly, I feel like the biggest impact maybe I've had, and this may be just my point of view on it, but being a young black professional and also happened to be a part of the lgbtq plus community, I'm pansexual. No one else really looks like me on these things, and I feel like putting myself in the room in front of a lot of C-suite people, getting the opportunity to engage with those people and letting them know, Hey, this is how it looks from working on a project level versus corporate side of things, and me being who I am, I can speak a little more and advocate more, and I feel like it's made an impact in a way of we got some things moving, especially when we start talking about the corporate equality index and we start educating more on transgender policy and boom, we end up getting a policy. We're working on changing the language and our policies being more inclusive, taking out masculine feminine verbiage. I can't say that I'm a direct impact of that, but I feel like because of the work we're doing and trying to keep that visibility, it definitely has flown upward in the right direction.
Host (05:25):
Certainly not everyone has the desire or the energy to push this rock up that hill. Where does her motivation come from?
Dee (05:34):
It's my jam because I grew up in a little big town. A lot of people don't know what Talladega is unless you've seen the movie with Will Ferrell. Only one part of that movie was actually in the town, but I grew up in a super religious family. I was raised by my dad's side of my family who are JE witnesses, but I grew up 15 years in it. So as I was growing up and discovering things and finding out who I was and then afraid of showing that because of the fear I knew, I kept it suppressed for a long time. And when I eventually opened up to who I was in my early twenties, I like 21, 22, I was like, you know what? I'm not hiding myself anymore. Forget these people. I'm going to live my life. And I've always had that attitude. I've never felt like I had to be ashamed after I grew up a little bit and left that family, that's a whole nother story.
(06:29):
But once I got away from those point of views that weren't aligned with mine, I matured into like, okay, I'm going to be me. And then I started learning more engaging with the community and started to see a lot more people who didn't have that experience that I have that I was able to leave a family but be accepted by others. Not everyone has that and not everyone feels like they can wave their flag all the time. So I started saying, what can I do? What impact can I make by being myself and making sure I'm a loud voice for those who don't have that voice? And that's why I became a passion of mine. I've lost friends because of the pain they went through trying to come out to their family or to others and be accepted, and I never want to feel that. I never want anyone else to experience that. So I'm trying to do what I can in whatever way to change that and make people realize that even if your family at home doesn't embrace you, you can make your family, you can make a chosen family. You just have to find the people.
Host (07:47):
Many of us have had to leave our biological families and create chosen families for ourselves. I wondered how Dee defines hers.
Dee (07:56):
Me. How I've chosen my family was actually when I finally started embracing who I was in college, I just started talking to people and say, Hey, I've realized at the time I was identifying as bisexual, I was like, I'm bisexual. I don't know if that bothers anybody. And most of the people were like, no, we don't care. We still care about you or whatever. So that's how I started to, it's not that I went up to everybody and start coming out like, oh, by the way, it was more of if it came up in the conversation and their reaction to it. I mean, it's not always been positive. I've had people who were like, oh, why would you want to do that? And I'm like, it's my life. You don't have to live it. You don't have to do that. So those people unfortunately, don't stay around. Don't stay in my life because I'm like, if you can't embrace all of me, then you can't be my friend at all. I kind of naturally beginning to find my chosen family based on the things I like and the people I connect with and just having conversation. And sometimes if it's not for them, that's fine. We don't have to be against each other. We just don't agree. Hearing
Host (09:11):
Dee's confidence and being pansexual today might make one believe. She's always been that way, but early in her life, being pansexual was confusing.
Dee (09:22):
To be honest. I think it was when I was a little younger. I was in middle school or something like that, and I started to notice my crushes weren't really the guys, it was more of the girls. There was always this one girl who wore the same kind of name brand all the time, and she was just so pretty. And at first I was like, I just like her style. I want to dress like her. But then I was like, no, it's not that. I just like her personality. And it was a huge crush. So at that moment I was like, okay, I'm not supposed to girls. That's not what I was taught. That's not what is acceptable in my head. So that was the first moment where I was like, I think that might be different. But my first real gay experience was when I got a little older, and at this point I'm like, I know what I like or whatever. I kissed a girl and I was like, okay, this is for me. I like it. It's fine. It doesn't mean I don't like the other side of the coin, but I like both. And from that moment on, I just kind of was like, I have to be honest with myself. I shouldn't hide who I am and if it makes anyone else uncomfortable, I mean, I'm sorry, but this is like I said earlier, it's my life. I have to live it, not you, so I'm going to do what I want.
Host (10:53):
Even in college, Penn sexuality was still confusing, but one experience helped her see things more clearly.
Dee (10:59):
This is kind of a sad story a little bit, but it's not, it's very eyeopening for me. But there was a girl that I was in college and we got really close and she was the sweetest person. She was everything. So it was the best experience because I got to see, because at this time I was still not openly dating women. I was still dating guys, but I'm like, I like girls, but I don't know what to do. But getting to know her as a friend and then growing into more showed me, it's okay, I can accept. And it was the best experience for me. Even though she got away, it's my fault. But I realized that I shouldn't let the next person get away because I'm scared of what others might think because what happened, and even though that's a sad story, it was the best experience for me because after that I was like, never again. If I like someone, I don't care who they are. And that's when I finally realized, I don't care if you identify as male, female, non-binary, as long as you're a great person and I connect with you, I'm going to love you anyway. So that is my best experience because it really truly help me pinpoint who I am and also realize that I shouldn't hide someone because I'm not comfortable.
Host (12:20):
Her next relationship was with a guy. She learned another hard lesson in that relationship.
Dee (12:26):
I was engaged to a male, and that's when I was in my moment of I can't marry him without telling him who I am. I sat down and it was like, Hey, this is who I am. That doesn't mean I don't want to be with you. I still love you. I still want to marry you. It doesn't erase our love it. I'm just telling you who I am as someone who's supposed to be my best friend, my partner. And he took it like, oh, you're going to be with somebody else. Oh, you're going to go off and cheat with me. You want to be with women now? It was terrible. It was terrible because it made me feel like, oh, so my family was right. This isn't a good thing. Something's wrong with me. I'm broken. Maybe the devil's got me. I'm sorry, but these were real thoughts.
(13:17):
And I kind of went into a depression for a while because of my identity. I was like, I can't be with anybody. I'm surprised he still wants to be with all these things. And fortunately, that relationship ended not too long after, and it definitely led me on the path I'm on now. But it was a bad experience for me. I felt like, oh, I need to now go back into my shell. I don't need to. I can't be out. I can't embrace myself. I can't be with this partner because they're going to be afraid of me going with someone else. And that's that bisexual stigma that people say, oh, if you're bi, you're greedy. You're going to be, you want one of both? Because he made me feel like that. I was like, okay, I got to suppress it again. And I did it for another year or so before I was finally like, no, he was wrong. Not me.
Host (14:11):
Today, she has a strategy for protecting herself from discrimination, but being pansexual still has its challenges.
Dee (14:18):
To be honest. It's something that I bring up because I'm single. So when I'm dating or getting to know someone, it's not like that's the first two things I say. But I make sure pretty early on that I'm letting them know this is who I am. I am pansexual. This is what it means. But I'm also telling you this because telling, I want you to understand that, and I'm not taking away your choice to date me. I'm not going to spring it on you later. And majority of people are like, okay, that's fine. But I have run into people who are like, oh, no, I live in the south still. I'm in Tennessee. So I run into a lot of people that are like, aren't you afraid you're going to go to hell? All these things. And how I navigate that, I'm like, well, I don't think you saying that to me is good either.
(15:14):
But next I made sure to end that. But for those who continue to talk to me, I've dated someone who was like, oh, I'm okay with that. You're fine. I embrace you who you are. And then I'm like, oh, I'm going to take a vacation with one of my best friends. And all of a sudden, are y'all just friends? Are you sure? What do you do? I'm like, I've known her for 10 years. If I was going to get on that train, I would've took it a long time ago, not now while I'm in a relationship. And that to me, I didn't take that as a thing against me, to be honest. It was more of a reflection of themselves, of their insecurities, unfortunately, because I've always been very, I'm probably to a fault, very honest with people about who I am. And I'm like, I'm not a cheater.
(16:02):
I I'm choosing to be with you. It's because of a reason, but if you mess it up, of course I'm going to move on. And the next person might be the opposite sex of you. I don't know. So don't feel as if just because I identify as what I identify, that it race anything I have for that person. And that was the conversation I had to have with a lot of people. And dating women, especially lesbian women who date bisexual women, they always think, oh, well, you're going to sneak off and go be with a man. And so I've navigated both of those waters on both sides, and it's always the same conversation. I'm like, Hey, I'm here for a reason and if you don't trust me, that's not my fault. I'm being honest with you. I told you upfront, all those things. So that's how I navigate it now. But dating out here sucks. So
Host (16:52):
I'm bisexual myself and throughout my life, I've been pressured to pick a side, and it really sucks to be put in that position. At times. I've felt like a man without a community unwelcome in both the straight and the gay worlds. I asked Dee what she likes about being pansexual.
Dee (17:09):
I don't like to not be able to explore all my options. I mean, that's just kind of the honest truth, but it's deeper than that. It's more of, I feel like I shouldn't limit myself with just saying, oh, I have to date this type of person. I may connect with someone else that may identify as male, but they're trans. It's a whole spectrum. And I feel like I don't want to limit myself by saying, oh, I only have to date within the certain parameter because that's what society tells me I have to do. I like being pansexual because I may connect with someone that I never would've thought of or seen or been with because of what I thought I had to date. And I also feel like all people deserve love regardless of what you look like on the outside versus how you feel on the inside, all those things. Everyone deserves to be with someone. And I just love people. I love all people. I don't really care about your sexual orientation or your genitalia. I don't care about all that. It's more about the person and the connection for me.
Host (18:19):
I like to ask all my guests on this podcast what it means to them to be gay in America.
Dee (18:26):
Accepting yourself. I know this may be a real millennial answer, but I feel like being gay in America, when you are surrounded by the people who truly love you and you have, it's a sense of pride. People are very proud in this country of just being American. But to me, I'm proud to be gay in America because I am who I am. I going to be who I am. I'm going to encourage other people to be who they are, and I hope that other people feel like being gay in America around the right people is safe, and I want to create safe spaces. That's what it is for me.
Host (19:15):
She's certainly off to a good start at being an advocate in the workplace for the LGBTQA plus people. I wondered what comes next for her.
Dee (19:23):
Well, I hope my future holds an opportunity where I can make this my full-time job, my full-time passion. I want to be able to advocate not just in the lgbtq plus community, but also as a woman, as a black person, all these things. I want to be able to use my passion to help others, and rather I get paid for it or I keep doing it as an extracurricular, that's fine. But I really hope that the path that I'm trying to pave becomes wider and wider for others. I genuinely hope to keep growing in this very small niche field. I do this because I'm tired of hearing of young people. That feels like there's no other option.
Host (20:28):
This podcast is produced by me at Open Roads Media, L l C, and features new episodes each month. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share with your friends. Leaving Positive Reviews helps a lot more than you think it does, and we do love hearing from you. Tell us how this podcast has impacted your life. Go to our website where you can drop us a voice message. We may include it in a future episode of Gay in America. We need your help to keep this podcast going. Click the link in the show notes to learn how you can support this podcast. Your direct support helps us inspire and support more listeners. Thank you so much for listening to the Gay In America Podcast and keep coming back for more inspiring stories about being gay in America.