Everett Uhl on the Critical Role of Marriage and Family Therapists

Can the quality of your relationships truly impact your overall well-being and lifespan? Discover the fascinating insights shared by Everett Uhl, a licensed marriage and family therapist (LMFT) from North Carolina, on this episode of Kindred Conversations. Everett dives deep into the unique aspects of her practice, revealing how somatic therapy and the systemic approach of LMFTs can transform lives. We explore her extensive training, the critical importance of relational hours, and the nuanced discussions around advocating for insurance coverage for couples therapy. This conversation is an eye-opener for anyone interested in the profound effects of mental health practices on personal and relational health.

In our discussion, Everett sheds light on the often-overlooked value of mental health care professionals and the challenges they face in today's profit-driven society. We critique the capitalist metrics that frequently ignore employee well-being and reflect on the broader implications of a stable mental health environment. Everett also shares guidance on connecting with her practice, whether you prefer virtual or in-person sessions. Plus, we provide valuable resources for finding therapists online and locally. This episode is a must-listen for those passionate about mental health advocacy and expanding therapeutic practices. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the pivotal role mental health plays in our lives.

https://www.everettuhltherapy.com/

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Transcript

Aubrey: 0:07

Welcome to Kindred Conversations. I'm Aubrey Baptiste, your host, and today we have a return guest, everett Ohl, who is here representing her practice. Everett, welcome. Hi, aubrey, thanks for having me. Yeah, so you were here before. Why don't you just give us a reminder about what you do and a little bit about who you are, and we'll just jump right into it from there?

Everett : 0:31

Yeah, so I am a licensed marriage and family therapist in the state of North Carolina. I graduated from my grad program immediately, started my own private practice or not immediately, but you as soon as I, as soon as I could. And this September will be two year business anniversary, which is very exciting. The second year is definitely more fun than the first and I see individuals and couples both virtually and in person. I bill myself as a somatic therapist, so in working with me, we're going to talk a lot about your nervous system, how it responds to different stimuli. We're going to talk about breathing. We're going to talk about mindfulness all of that good stuff I usually pull from acceptance and commitment therapy, um, and then, you know, sprinkle in all the other, all the other good stuff, some, uh, emotionally focused therapy, some, you know, gottman stuff, some CBT all that good stuff, but primarily, um, an ACT therapist and really focused on mindfulness and helping clients, uh, clients really strengthen or even just begin the mind-body connection.

Aubrey: 1:50

Yeah, awesome, okay. So I'm going to ask you about this because this is something that I didn't really think much about until it was a few weeks ago and I was explaining to a client about, like all of the different designations, like the degrees and things like that. So, like I'm a board certified art therapist, I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor, I'm a qualified supervisor that's what all the letters mean behind my name, right, which means that those are like the entities and the bodies that back me up in my practice and say, like you're legal and ethical to practice. What is kind of different about an LMFT, a licensed marriage and family therapist? That is maybe like because I know there's a lot of similarities, but like, what are some differences that you've encountered with being an LMFT?

Everett : 2:41

So luckily, all of my professors have very strong MFT pride, so they really drilled this into us. The first being we are trained in systems theory and our course curriculum is very grounded in that. So if we're doing like a case conceptualization or something that, so if we're doing like a case conceptualization or something, it's you know what is the family system like, where do they work, where do they live, all of that. So it's much less the individual existing just in a bubble and much more what are the systemic influences that are occurring for them. And the other big difference is that we have a couples class, we have a family class and then in grad school, you know, you are seeing couples and families as part of your training with supervision, along with individuals too.

Everett : 3:38

But so, yeah, just prioritization of couples, families, relational systems and then also for achieving our license. They split individual hours versus family, they call them relational hours. So you have to see, you know I think, at least 250 hours of couples work or family work to obtain the license, for family work to obtain a license.

Aubrey: 4:04

Oh, okay. So if you went to school for an like to become an LMFT, could you in theory decide like, hey, I don't want to be an LMFT.

Everett : 4:19

I actually want to be like a licensed clinical mental health counselor. Could you do that instead? I think so. I think you could still have like a master's in marriage and family therapy, but qualify and pass the LC MHC exam.

Aubrey: 4:30

Okay, so in theory, if you wanted to, you could have both. Yeah, yeah or in theory you could just become an LMFT, but only see individuals, and then LMFT like so. I know, like social workers, counselors and LMFTs, you can. You can bill insurance right. Yes, yeah, but not for couples therapy. Yeah, because couples is kind of a weird thing in in all of the different things. That's not really like a licensing thing, that's more of like an insurance thing right yeah, which is funny.

Everett : 5:05

But I guess insurance companies know that if they covered couples therapy then every they would have to cover everybody, right, because I have the opinion that everyone could use, could use some couples therapy yeah, and the insurance companies.

Aubrey: 5:20

they have us write our notes according to medical necessity and so like, for some reason they just say that that well, I guess we could probably go into why it's not medically necessary, I guess.

Everett : 5:36

Or we can argue why it is right, because I think there's new research now that proves that, like your, who you choose as your life partner, um impacts your health in so many ways, and I think your lifespan can change up to like four years or something depending on who your life partner is, cause sometimes your partner can really cause you so much stress, um, but you know, I'm not here to debate why insurance companies should change what they deem medically necessary, right.

Aubrey: 6:10

Yeah, no, not at all, but I mean it's an interesting thought, right? Is that like there is research that says that we will live longer if we have, like, quality relationships in our life? Yeah, like the number one quality relationship is with our partner or spouse. Yeah, yeah, it's so, so important. So let's all advocate for insurance companies to cover couples.

Everett : 6:32

Yes, let's, uh, let's start a super PAC and we'll lobby, go to Congress and and lobby for uh, for insurance companies to cover couples therapy. I think that could be a really cool long-term study to see what the societal impacts and outcomes would be. But yeah, that's me being a research nerd.

Aubrey: 6:55

Yeah, I mean, I know that we're kind of laughing about it, but this is like a public forum and I think that it's totally something that should be taken on. I personally, I'm not going to be the one to take it on, but you know, anybody out there listening wants to take it on. I will sign your petition.

Everett : 7:14

You have two guaranteed signatures right here. Yes, 100%.

Aubrey: 7:19

So last time we were talking you were telling me that you're looking at expanding your practice. That's pretty exciting.

Everett : 7:26

Yeah, that is the goal. So I think, yes, I got into therapy to help people. Obviously that is a driving force. You know, I it's not what I'm doing, it's why I'm doing it, and I really care about the why. Um, but one of the additional wise is hey, I'm really interested in being a good employer, I'm really interested in being a good boss, I'm really interested in paying my employees a fair wage, um, and I think it's possible, right? So, um, and you know the, the blueprint for me has been set by, um, bad bosses. So I've just been like, oh, I'll just do the opposite of what you're doing and, um, it'll be great. So, yes, I'm trying to expand. I would like to hire one, if not two, people, um, and really start to grow.

Everett : 8:15

I think you know, the more I talk about somatic work and I'll talk to individuals who you know, a lot of my clients have done therapy before, but it was very much that CBT based thing. Oh, it's cognitive stuff. So, yes, logically, I can understand why I shouldn't be upset by this, or, logically, I can see that this thought is not that true, but it still causes me distress. So addressing the body is really important. So I think, kind of the overarching umbrella of my practice and, as it expands, group practice ideally, and maybe even you know, a multi-state group practice, somatic work, I think will really be our primary focus and then everyone can have their own specialties and that kind of thing. Maybe some people will be more DBT, some people, you know my heart is very much towards the new mom space, trauma work, whatever.

Aubrey: 9:15

But yeah, really really hoping to expand and hire people and treat them well and pay them well, while still I'm really able to, yeah, I really resonate with that piece about, because this I'm on a kind of similar, like parallel journey, right of like wanting to expand as well, and I'm right there with you with like this. Why piece? And it's because if you look at the broader scope of like how people are paid and like what jobs are out there, like I don't know about you, right, but it bothers me that the like one of the highest paid things is like finance, like financial institutions, which, like you know, all the more power to them, right, they make the world run and all of the things right, but it's like finance to me is almost just like it.

Everett : 10:14

I don't know, I don't want to talk about it.

Aubrey: 10:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly, and it's like I'm doing something. The people that I work with, we do something on a daily, like multiple times a day, that is impacting people's lives in a way. That is like literally giving people meaning for their lives, like empowerment in their lives, like things that like literally make their lives better, like more able to take on life's challenges, and all of these things like that are really impactful, and yet our role is continuing to be devalued in the dollar amounts that we receive, and so, you know, it's a big part of what I want to do in terms of advocacy, to like make sure that the people that are coming into this field are well taken care of, so that we can continue to expand the work that we do.

Everett : 11:16

Yes, absolutely yeah. And I feel like I can say I can speak poorly about finance guys because my dad worked on Wall Street my whole life, so love you dad. But he fits into the finance guy stereotype. But, yeah, right, like there are so many companies out there where the bottom line is profit. We live in a capitalist society.

Everett : 11:39

That's hey, yeah, that's what's supposed to happen every quarter. You're supposed to make your shareholders more money, um, and we're in a space where, yeah, growth can happen, but doesn't have to be every quarter, um, and growth can happen in a way that is not actually like the quantitative growth, right, not numbers based. It could be qualitative where, oh, wow, now this person enjoys sex in a way that they didn't before, right? Or, oh, this person can notice that their body is in distress in a way that they didn't before. So, yeah, I think the why is such a great driver. But then there is also the frustration around quality of care, because you have tech companies that are getting into the therapy space. Texting is not, in my opinion, therapy, but it's a really cheap thing way to provide a service to someone, right? So how do we, like preserve the integrity of what the service actually is, or what even is the service without, you know, bigger powers coming in and cutting costs and figuring out how to deliver the product for as cheap as possible.

Aubrey: 13:00

Yeah, no, it's a one of the things I think that has been lacking, from my own experience in what I. So I came in and I serve, like the insurance companies that I use use like a I guess you would say like a fourth party, because like insurance is like a. I guess you would say like a fourth party because like insurance is like a third party, right. So like it's like basically, like this company works with the insurance companies to like be able to file the claims and make it more easy for me so that like I don't have to do the back end of the billing things and like argue with the make sure that I get my payments and all of that Right, so like they make it easier for me.

Aubrey: 13:47

But it's essentially like a giant group practice and they do have opportunities for connection there, but they're like these large scale gigantic. Like you can join this CEU training and get free CEUs over here, you know. And so the benefit of having like a small group practice is the community that you're able to build within that and having camaraderie and working together and, in theory, like you can actually make more money that way. But the problem oftentimes is that there's not a lot of money in mental health to begin with, and so a lot of times the bosses in the mental health figure out that if they do the same thing that was done to them and they just take the max amount of money, then they can finally get their money, but they're still leaving behind their people who are behind them.

Everett : 14:45

Yes, yeah, one hundred percent. And then you just turn and burn through your employees rather than retaining them over long periods of time.

Aubrey: 14:53

Right. So it's like there's a lot of problems in mental health, mostly because of the lack of funding and it it it's unfortunate that it happens that way. So it's yeah, I'm right there with you. There's a noble cause and like wanting to do it differently and yet like we're still in that same system.

Everett : 15:15

So it's a struggle yeah, yeah, but to care, you know it's. I mean it goes back to teachers, nurses, right, the caring, the caring, nurturing, not to say I'm always caring and nurturing. Sometimes I'm combative and challenging with my clients, but you know, the the care and nurturing professions are usually not valued and not seen as valuable. And, yeah, I still don't really understand why, but I was gonna say you want to get into a feminist?

Aubrey: 15:48

talk about that let's do it.

Everett : 15:53

These men no, I'm just kidding, it's not the men, it's the system. Right? Yes, yes, right. And why in the world would caring and nurturing for young ones or old ones matter or make a difference? Right, but it does, right, if we actually put a value on what care and nurturing looks like, right. What do teachers do? Teachers fund and pay for all their supplies in their classrooms. Teachers are normally the person that a child sees besides their parents, who makes them feel special or important or maybe even love, right, or can highlight a positive thing for them. So, same thing. You know, I don't work with kids as a therapist or work with adults, but yeah, it is wild that we're not able to place a value on what we, uh, what we do and why. Nurturing or caring for someone is a necessary thing and it is an extremely valuable contribution to society. What would it look like to have actually like a stable, a mentally stable society, right?

Aubrey: 17:05

I don't know.

Everett : 17:06

Maybe that's not possible. We need mentally unstable people. And then you also look at who is winning the game of capitalism and you could argue that maybe some of them are not that mentally stable. Elon Musk is coming to mind, right? Or the traits that we value about him are very much his cost cutting and things like that, rather than his ability to nurture or care or pay his employees well, right.

Aubrey: 17:35

So it is funny how, like, nurturing and care are always in direct contradiction or opposition to, and care always in direct contradiction or opposition to, yeah, efficiency, yeah, it's like anything to its extreme, and and right now we're at like the tipping point of capitalism at its extreme, yeah, yeah but I mean what happens in the next 25 years. Yeah right. Well, I will say that I do know that there exist grants for mental health, and I haven't really done much digging into that, but that's something.

Everett : 18:14

My EMDR training was paid for by a grant. Actually, really, how did that work? My grad school had, you know, like a community mental health center and they were able to apply for the grant, I believe through the city, to provide trauma care for citizens. So essentially like affordable trauma care for folks in the community. So, yeah, they were able to train students in EMDR and we were able to provide EMDR services to the community through that.

Aubrey: 18:56

Oh cool, yeah, yeah, so that would be something that could be done. I guess that that already exists, because we have like a heck systems throughout North Carolina, because we have like, um, a heck systems throughout north carolina. That, um, it's like a non-profit that provides education for therapists. Right, I'm thinking of the right thing you know about this. Let me, let me google it. You're like, yeah, yeah, we do have resources in North Carolina. Yeah, ahec, that seems right. Yeah, out this way, it's called MAHEC, because it's Mountain Area Health and Education Center, I think is what it stands for.

Everett : 19:38

Yeah, they need to work on how those letters sound when you pronounce the abbreviation. That sounds funny to me AHEC. Yeah, they need to work on what? How those letters sound when you pronounce the abbreviation.

Aubrey: 19:52

That sounds funny to me. Yeah, I have a good friend who does a training through them. That's all about the technology use. Oh yeah, cool yeah, and so that's. That's a topic that I'm really interested in too, but for another time.

Everett : 20:05

Yeah Cool.

Aubrey: 20:06

Well, it was great talking to you. How can people find more information about you and your practice?

Everett : 20:12

Yeah, so my name is Everett, last name spelled U-H-L. I don't know why I chose my first name, because it's very hard to spell, but it's everdualtherapycom. Or you can also just Google my name, since I think I'm the only everdual maybe in the world, so you can just find me that way. But everdual therapy, virtual across the state of North Carolina and in person in Raleigh.

Aubrey: 20:43

Awesome, all right, well, great having you back, and there is another episode on Biz Radio, wherever it was here before, so be sure to check that out as well, and you can find more about me on my website, arttherapynccom, and you can reach out to me on bizradious as well. Thanks, aubrey. Yeah, you're welcome.