1984-1985 Sally Covers Two Tunes (MMM5)

Welcome to Rock and Roll Flashback!  The story of my life revolves around the wonderful relationship that I had with the love of my life:  Sally Lehman McDermott.  Music has the mysterious power to trigger deep emotions and re-awaken memories.  The My Musical Memories series here on Rock and Roll Flashback Podcasts explores the various ways that music was an integral part of my life with Sally.  My name is Jumpin' John McDermott.  We are here at the Classic Frog Studios.  This is the hum-free, buzz-free Classic Frog Studios.  Today we are going to do a podcast called 1984 to 1985 Sally Covers Two Tunes, My Musical Memories Series #5.

All podcasts on the Rock and Roll Flashback Podcast are produced by brothers-in-law Bill Price and "Jumpin' John" McDermott. The Podcast Theme Song, "You Essay", was written by John, and the basic track was recorded by Bill and John on April 1, 2004.
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Bill and John welcome your feedback and comments, and they can be emailed to rockandrollflashback@outlook.com.
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Until next time...
Rock On!

Transcript

John (J):  Welcome to Rock and Roll Flashback!  The story of my life revolves around the wonderful relationship that I had with the love of my life:  Sally Lehman McDermott.  Music has the mysterious power to trigger deep emotions and re-awaken memories.  The My Musical Memories series here on Rock and Roll Flashback Podcasts explores the various ways that music was an integral part of my life with Sally.  My name is Jumpin' John McDermott.  We are here at the Classic Frog Studios.  This is the hum-free, buzz-free Classic Frog Studios.  Today we are going to do a podcast called 1984 to 1985 Sally Covers Two Tunes, My Musical Memories Series #5.

J:  Over the years there have been a lot of great songwriting duos:  Rogers & Hammerstein, , Bacharach & David, Leiber & Stoller, Carole King & Goffin, Lennon & McCartney (whoever they were), Elton John & Taupin, and so on.  However, there is one un-sung (pun intended) duo that often gets overlooked:  Price & Price!  Music trade magazines and songwriting experts have all unanimously agreed about Linda and Bill's songwriting style:  they proclaim that "the Price is always right"!  

J:  I am privileged to have those two dynamic songwriters, Linda Price and William Price, here in the studio today.  Together we will talk about their songwriting inspiration, their methods, and their techniques.  In particular, we will discuss two of their songs written in 1984, and the role that Sally McDermott had in eventually recording those songs.  So, sit back, relax, and flashback with us, as we go back 40 years to 1984.  Welcome, Linda and Bill to this episode of Rock and Roll Flashback Podcasts!

Linda (L):  Oh well thank you, John.  I'm glad to be here and let you know what I think I can remember.  I hope I didn't froget too much.

J:  You may have froget-ed.

L:  I may have, but you never know.

Bill (B):  Well, thank you for having me.  You are going to be taxing my mind quite a bit here.

J:  Well that's the fun of this.  We are going to go back down memory lane.

B:  Back in time.

J:  Back in time.  And unfortunately, we've had a couple alcoholic drinks over the course of the last 40 years that may have blunted our memory.  But we're looking back 40 years.  We'll do the best we can with the information we have.

J:  First, here is some background information about the McDermotts.  In 1984 the McDermotts were living in the Southern Tier of New York state.  Sally McDermott was busy taking care of our two young daughters:  6 year old Emily and 3 year old Molly.  Jumpin' John McDermott (that's me) was under increasing pressure at work, due to constant employee unrest and ever-increasing upper management demands.  In fact, that upper management dissatisfaction with my performance would lead to my 1986 demotion and relocation.  Some employees, as is their nature, did not like my enforcing company policy and not playing favorites.  In January 1984, I even heard that some of the employees had a private party where one of their drinking games was called "pin the hair on McDermott's head"!   Like Rodney Dangerfield, I couldn't get no respect!  To ease my mind somewhat from those pressures at work, 1984 became one of my most prolific songwriting years.  I wrote over 20 songs that year, and I recorded cassette demo versions of most of them.

B:  Just of many of these hits became top hits?

J:  Well several of them were regional favorites.

B:  Just how regional?

J:  Around the Lehman Inn in York County, Pennsylvania.

B:  Like maybe 3 or 4?

J:  Yes.

B:  OK.

J:  We had some fun with them, and that was also coincided with my time spent with major rock band called the Cool Brothers.

B:  Now were any of these hits, would they be considered, let's say "one hit wonders?"

J:  Oh absolutely!

B:  Or no hit wonders?

J:  They were half hit wonders.  They never made it up to one hit wonders status.

B:  Didn't make it to the Billboard Hot 100?

J:  No.

B:  Or the Billboard Hot 200?  Or even the Billboard 1000?

J:  They made it to the Music City Song Festival Songwriting Contest in Nashville, Tennessee, but unfortunately they didn't win first prize.  And that's one of the things that was happening during this time period of my personal songwriting surge (1984) was fueled in part by equipment expansion.  Previously [laughter]

B:  Wait a minute.  There's a store where you could buy yourself?

J:  You got it.

B:  Hmmm.  Never heard of that one.

L:  The hell out of this one.

J:  Before 1984 I had accompanied myself on guitar and recorded either on a reel-to-reel tape recorder or on a simple mono cassette tape recorder.  By 1984 I had added a Casio keyboard, a drum machine, and a dual cassette recorder.  This opened up numerous possibilities for songwriting and recording.  Additionally, in the Summer of 1985 I enrolled in a community education program called "Songwriting" at the Broome Community College in Broome County, New York.  And, as already mentioned or as hinted here in 1985 I had already begun entering some of my songs and some of our Cool Brothers songs in the Nashville, Tennessee's Music City Song Festival songwriting contest.  

J:  Now, here is a little background information about the songwriting team of Linda and Bill Price.  You were already well-established by 1984.  Is that correct?

B:  Somewhat.  We were struggling songwriters.

J:  OK.  Well, in 1983, I'll remind you, you wrote three excellent gems:  "Paradise", "Cool Brothers Polka", and "Lehman Inn".  In fact, my favorite lyrics of all time came from the end of the song about the "Lehman Inn" when you sang, "Bingo will lick your shin when you stay at the Lehman Inn!"  Probably my favorite lyrics of all time.

L:  I do remember writing that song because I put all the stuff that I remember about the…

J:  The occasion.  Sure.

B:  I think you need to clarify who Bingo was.

L:  Well, Bingo was the family dog.  And he had his own little house outside.  And he was a friendly little dog, and I just thought well I had to come up with some kind of lyrics and it just get in my head and it just came to me that's a good verse to put there, you know.

J:  And what could be more friendlier than a dog licking your shin?  I mean that's….

L:  That's right.  That's right.

J:  Those were perfect lyrics and it really worked well in that song and a good way to close it out.

B:  Oh, ok well.

L:  Well, he would lick your shin, and it just rhymed with the Lehman Inn.  And we always had fun when we stayed at the Lehman Inn and that just put everything that we - that I thought was important when we used to go there and everybody really liked the song and…

J:  All right.  And he just was an affectionate dog that liked to lick shins.  So…

L:  Yeah, yeah.  He was a little, he wasn't a real big dog… 

J:  OK.  So you did well in 1983.  Then in 1984 you came up with three additional hits:   "Happy (40th) Anniversary, Mom and Dad", "Baby Baby", and "Back to the Country".  Additionally in 1984, Bill you wrote the music to the smash regional hit, covered by the Cool Brothers, called "Lazy Days".

J:  Here is a demo version of "Lazy Days," as performed by the Cool Brothers.

["Lazy Days"]

J:  Your recording studio, whether it was located in Virginia or Pennsylvania has always been known as Classic Frog Recording.  Linda, why that name?  Any significance there?

L:  Well, we're the frog people.  I'm called the Frog Lady, aka "Frog Lady," and he likes frogs as much as I do and our favorite color is green.  And he was always calling himself the "Frog of Alexandria", Virginia.  That's what happened.  He decided to name it that, and he had a little logo with a frog on it and...  So he just decided that would be a good thing.  He had a lot of things he could make a picture of a frog and so it be.

J:  That became your calling card.  I know, just a point of reference for our listeners, that if they

listen to our podcast about Herman's Hermits, Part 2 they can learn a little bit more about not only were known as the Frog Lady, but you were identified as such by none other than Peter Noone, Herman of Herman's Hermits.  Which is pretty darn impressive.  Classic Frog Recording.  It didn't have anything to do with the sound emanating from the singer's voice?

B:  You mean like a croaking sound?  Well that could…

J:  Or ribbet, ribbet?

B:  Could be.

J:  OK.  Alright, so we have Classic Frog Recording that was supplementing your song writing.  Why don't you describe your equipment as it has evolved over the years.  So how did you start out? 

B:  When I was teenage years I acquired a first tape recorder which was a mono single track vacuum tube recorder.  So that's how I started.  Eventually got into cassettes and then I got a Panasonic stereo recorder and just kind of evolved, and I built my own 6 channel recording console and slowly got into cassettes and then I got my first Teac 2 track recorder.  Then I found a 4 track Teac recorder and then a half track Teac 2 track recorder.  So I've got something like 3 tape decks, bunch of cassette decks, into CD's now, USB sticks and along the way in the early 80s after a lull in music I acquired my first keyboard, which is a Casio.

J:  Like the one that I had.

B:  Yeah.

J:  In fact, it is the same model, as I recall.

B:  Yep.  And that's kind of how it started.  Well, since I had piano lessons when I was younger it wasn't too bad, but got a few books on chord progressions and stuff like that and just slowly fooled around and started coming up with some melodies.  And that's basically how some of these songs started out is just fooling around on the keyboard and then eventually the lyrics were added.

J:  So music first, lyrics usually second.

B:  Yep.

J:  As your technique in writing.  You also learned how to play guitar.  Tell me a little bit about the history of your guitar playing.

B:  When I was in Junior High I was approached by a fellow student as I was walking home and he just out of the blue asked me if I played a music instrument and I said well I'd taken piano lessons.  So that was kind of like my beginning into getting into a band, and we would record him and myself in our garage and that's kind of how it started. 

J:  You owned a bass guitar at one time.  You've owned acoustic guitars, electric guitars…

B:  This guitar that I had when I played with this guy was actually a 12 string guitar, but I was always kind of partial to playing bass.  So I went to this music store and bought bass strings and put them on this regular guitar.  So that's how it kinda got started doing that.

J:  OK.

B:  And then later on when the Cool Brothers formed and we started playing I went and got a 12 string acoustic and then later on I actually bought what's called - it’s a knockoff of the Hofner Beatle bass.  And playing that off and on and kinda just fooling around.

J:  A ha.  Didn't you win a keyboard from a Virginia music store?

B:  Well, I said the first keyboard was the Casio.  Then I went to a local music store and bought a Korg synthesizer.  And then I entered a contest at one of the local music stores.  You can enter the contest.  If you were lucky enough to win you could pick whatever keyboard or whatever instrument you wanted.  So I entered the contest, and we were at a, I think it was an apple orchard picking apples, and on our way home I turned on the radio station and lo and behold - timing - a guy comes on and says "oh and the winner of the contest at the music store is Mr. Price."  Like, that's me!  So I was able to pick what kind of instrument I got so I got another Korg synthesizer.  That's how I got into more detailed recording.  Of course, by then I had the Teac recorder, so I did a lot of recording on the Teacs.  Then I got a different mixing board and got into these things called mini discs.  They're kind of like CD's, but physically much smaller.  And did a lot of recording on those things.  Then around 1999 I got my first digital audio work station which uses a computer to record all the stuff.  And that's kinda where I've been doing stuff ever since.

J:  Well, your recording chops are very impressive as is your equipment.  Why don't we focus now - talk about those two monster 1984 hits?  These were two hits that Sally McDermott actually covered:  "Baby Baby" and "Back to the Country."  And we're gonna test the old memory banks here, because they are old…

B:  I have to ask you.  Did you get prior authorization for doing the cover?

J:  I'm not sure.  I have to check with my attorney and also my records from 40 years ago, because a lot has happened in 40 years and my memory is a little fuzzy after having so many bottles of merlot and cab sauvignon.  It's hard to remember.

B:  Hmm.  OK.  Well, we'll let that one slide.

J:  Right.  I will check with my attorney after we're done recording here and see what I can come up with.  Let's talk first about "Baby Baby."  What was the inspiration for those lyrics?

L:  I guess I was just adlibbing or some..  I really don't even remember doing this song.  I mean it's been so long ago.  I know the song, but I don't remember me putting the words to the paper.  But that's what the paper says so I guess I did  That's all I can say.

J:  Baby, baby, let's elope.  

J & L (together):  To the cape of Good Hope.

L:  Yeah.

J:  I mean that's another classic line that Paul McCartney would be envious of.  That just came to you.  I know you've told me you liked to do poetry but...

L:  Yeah, I guess it just came to my head.  I just…

J:  Just popped in there…

L:  Yeah, just to make things rhyme I had to think of a word that rhymes with "elope" and the hope you know came with that and...  I wrote verses, and I was into poetry I guess.  And I always liked to rhyme things, and I guess I just started putting down some words and rhyming them.  And then I'd ask Bill - maybe he would give me a word if I got stuck and so I just made up the words to that.  I assume I did.  I can't remember everything cause it's been 40 years.  And time goes, you lose a little bit up here you know.

J:  Yep.

L:  But that's how I remember it. But I think it was more of a clob, clobberation.

J:  Clobbing.  Did you go out clobbing that night?

B:  No, I did get clobbed a lot.

J:  Yeah, I wondered about that.  So clobberation.

L:  Collaboration.

J:  Collaboration.

L:  Between the two of us we'd come up with the verse and then when he had the music then he could put them in and it came out good I guess.

J:  So that was your writing technique… 

L:  Yeah.

J:   …and the method you used.  So, we recorded this in New York State, but Bill you came with the music.

B:  Yep.  Yes, that's another one of those…the Casio keyboard came in first.  

J:  Well you were famous for having some real hooks in your lyrics.  Of course, "Baby baby let's elope to the cape of Good Hope" is one of the all-time classics.  So you had already practiced and fine-tuned the chord progressions, but the lyrics we're not quite sure if we finished them at that point in time or what.  The basic controversy was whether or not the lyrics were written prior to the recording date, and your recollections is that maybe we all worked together to finish that up.

L:  I thought everybody worked together on that song.

J:  OK.  

L:  That's what I kinda think.  We have paper copies, but I don't have a typed copy of that work "Baby Baby" I don't believe, but I don't know.  I just, I can't remember.

B:  I guess she got stuck coming up with some lyrics so you guys came in and saved the day.    

J:  Yeah, we had quite a recording session as I recall back in 1984.  It involved you on the keyboards, Bill.  The drum unit was built into the keyboard unit, so there was percussion.  And then I added some simple guitar.  And then singing the song was Sally McDermott, Linda Price, and Emily McDermott, and I think I might have done a little background singing as well.  So we did cover that, "Baby Baby", classic hit in 1984 recorded in New York State.  And then back in 2001 at your recording studios in Virginia, Bill, you did some editing and added in percussion.   

J:  Here is the edited recording of Sally McDermott and others covering "Baby Baby."

["Baby Baby" 1984 version, edited 2001]

J:  So, another instance of "Baby Baby" being covered took place at the 1986 July 4th Party that was held at the World Famous Lehman Inn.  The party was an evening affair with quite a crowd there.  Quite a boisterous crowd as I recall.  Is that not correct? They were enjoying…

B:  They were enjoying their beverages.

J:  Beverages.  And at one point in time the Cool Brothers invited the Brussel Sprout Singers to come up on stage, and the song that you sang, Linda (and you being the Brussel Sprout Singers,  led by Sally McDermott, Linda Price, Emily McDermott, and Molly McDermott) was "Baby Baby."

J:  So, here is that version, back from July 4th, 1986, Sally McDermott and others covering "Baby Baby."

["Baby Baby" 1986 version]

J:  You did music first, and then…

B:  Then the lyrics came later.

J:  Lyrics later.  Did you collaborate Linda, with Bill?  How did that work between the two of you?

L:  I think I just started thinking up some words.  And I liked to write words that rhymed and I just…  That one "Back to the Country" in particular I guess we were, I was thinking we were living in the city and I thought it was time to go back to my roots in the country.  Perhaps that's what made that song.  But I couldn't finish the song.  I got stuck and then Bill had to finish the rest of it.

B: I had to rescue her.

J:  So basically it was a collaboration.

L:  That one was.  Yes.

J:  Is that what you'd call it?

L:  Yes I would say that's what it was.

J:  What would you call it?

L:  I would say we both worked on it together.

J:  OK.  Didn't know if you collaborated at all or if it was just the one person doing all the work.  It's interesting to hear your point of view on that.  So, "Back to the Country."  Another great hit.  You've mentioned earlier that you wanted to write something that denoted your desire to get away from city life and get back to more relaxed, laid back, country living.  That's pretty much your inspiration?

L:  Oh, I think so.

J:  "Back to the Country" has a rural connotation, I guess you would say.  

L:  Well I guess I was getting tired of maybe living in the city and maybe I was thinking of getting back to my roots and going back to the country.  And I started to write the song and then I couldn't rhyme good enough and then I turned it over to Bill to finish it.  He did the music and finished the words for me, but that was my inspiration and he recorded me singing that also, when he first did it.

J:  Bill, you said that you had to help her when she got stuck.  How did that take place?

B:  Well, as some people in government say, I have no recollection Senator!  But, again when I had the Casio keyboard I was fooling around, getting back into it since the last time I had played a piano was probably in the mid to late '60's.  And then after that it just kinda ffffffft fell off the cliff 'til the '80's when I picked it up again.  A lot of it was just fooling around, getting familiar with chord patterns, and that's how I usually would come up with some of these melodies with no lyrics.  And she started adding some lyrics to it.  Well she came up with the first few lines, and things came to a grinding halt.  Then she got stuck.

J:  Yeah.  You came to the rescue?     

B:  Yes.  What I did was I transferred the music to another cassette.  I had this little portable cassette player with some headphones.  And I used to have to travel quite a bit so on my way out to the West Coast I would sit there.  The plane ride was 3, 4 hours.  I had nothing else to do, so I'd play the cassette over and over and start adding some lyrics to it.  So that's how that got completed - on an airplane at 30,000 feet up in the air, somewhere over the West.

J:  High in the sky, as they say!

B:  High in the sky.

J:  Yeah and the minor controversy over the lyrics was which verse appeared first.  Chicken or the egg?  You thought maybe that he flip-flopped the verse on you?

L:  It could have been, but he came to the rescue so I guess whatever he thought was the best.  My lyrics is still in there, some of it so…

J:  Oh yeah.

L:  That's not a problem.

J:  That satisfies you.

L:  I think probably I only wrote the second verse then of the whole song.  

J:  Ahhh.  OK.

L:  I know I didn't write a whole lot of it.

B:  Yeah.

L:  But it only has like three verses I guess or something.

J:  OK.  

L:  I think that's what happened.

B:  Well I think the premise is that you were getting tired of the city, and you yearned to get back to the country.  That was kind of leading up to the line that says "pack up my bags" 'cause I'm now getting back to the country.  

J:  OK.. That kept your collaboration working effectively.

L:  Yes, we worked together.  Yes.

J:  The actual recording of the song was interesting because we've discovered to this point (there may be more) four different recordings of the song.  

B:  At least.

J:  At least.  There may be more because we found another one just a few minutes ago.

B:  Well, we have to search the tape library.

J:  Tape library.

B:  Which has a considerable amount of material in there.

J:  Yes.  That's an understatement.  But we do know about four recordings.  I 'd like to talk a little bit about them, because that's a minor controversy as well because we're not sure where all the recordings took place.  My contention is that I think they were all recorded in Virginia and you thought maybe some of them were overdubbed in New York.  But the four recordings I have seen so far and we've talked about.  One is, of course, the base recording of Bill on keyboards.

B:  Yep.

J:  Then we have a recording of Bill on keyboards, Linda singing.  Then we have a recording (the one that we are going to be hearing shortly) of Sally McDermott singing over Bill's keyboards with me playing a simple guitar background.  And then the fourth one; it's quite interesting is Bill on keyboards, me playing a little bit of guitar in the background, and a duet of Linda Price and Jumpin' John McDermott.  So we have four different versions of the song.  That's what we've found thus far of this hit song.

J:  Here is the recording of Sally McDermott covering that big hit, "Back to the Country."

["Back to the Country"]

J: So the controversy that we came up with is a very minor one, but none of us can remember for certain.  We have no video evidence of where this particular version, where Sally is singing, was recorded.  And we're not sure if it was recorded in Virginia or (less likely) in New York State, where Sally was living at the time.  So this little, minor controversy, we're not sure how we're ever going to resolve it because there is no video evidence of the recording sessions.  We certainly know that the recording of you, Linda, signing alongside Bill's keyboards was done in Virginia.  The other ones are up in the air.  What is your point of contention on that?

L:  Well I still say Bill and I did the song first, and then he sent you some music, and then Sally sang into the music, and then you sent it back to us.  That's just the way I remember it, but it could be any way.  We'll have to do some further investigation.

J:  So that's kind of our controversy that's hanging out there.  Without that corroborating.  Is that the word?  Is that how you pronounce it, corroborating?

B:  Clobberating!

J:  Clobberating?  

B:  No, clobber-rating.

J:  Clobber-rating.

L:  (laughter)

J:  Without that evidence we are kinda stuck here and...

B:  Stuck in the middle with you?

J:  Stuck in the middle with us.  Yes.  And we are kind of in a quandary.  We don't know (not that it matters) where that was recorded.  When you recorded there in Virginia, Bill, how did you record?

B:  Well now you're taxing my memory 'cause back then it may have been recorded straight to a cassette deck, or it could have been recorded on reel-to-reel.  And if it's on reel-to-reel, I'll have to go through our archives and see if I can find that.

J:  Just a point for all the listeners out there.  The archives consist of a wall of cabinets about 35 feet long, filled with cassettes and reel-to-reel tapes.  It's quite an impressive archive!  Just as this studio is quite impressive!

B:  Well, this thing will probably remain unsolved, so I guess it will remain…

J:  Great mystery.

B:  One of history's unsolved mysteries.

J:  A great mystery, I agree.  My contention, which kinda created this, was number one I do not remember, but number two I know that Sally was not always available to at a moment's behest to accompany me on singing songs.  So this is something we will have to see what research brings out.  As far as any royalties for her participation on singing and covering these songs, I do not have any record of that.  I believe a check was written and mailed.  

B:  Oh, so what you're saying is we should blame the postal service?

J:  USPS might be at fault here.  If you never received the royalty for that, I apologize if it's taken 40 years, but that was something that…

B:  Well, it will be forever remained unexplained.

L:  Well John, now you didn't have a good memory.  Maybe you wrote us a blank check?

J:  Oh, that would be interesting, wouldn't it?  Well I will look back.  Go through all of my checkbooks for the last 40 years and see if I can find that record and…

L:  And another thing John.  You know I always complain to you when things don't go right.  Do you never remember me calling you up and telling you, where's the check?  Where's the check?  You know I would remember that, now wouldn't I?  I don't frog-get things! 

J:  It sounds like something you would do, and you know since we all are collaborators here on a collaborating body, you would think we would be a little bit more resolute and follow-through a little better than this.  So, again my apologies to you if you have not received that check.  I just thank you for collaborating with me in producing some of these things because obviously a lot was utilized by the Cool Brothers in some of their performances.  Not only at the World Famous Lehman Inn, but other places. 

J:  Well thank you both for being here at the Classic Frog Studios where we are buzz free and hum free.  I appreciate your candor and your memories as we walk down memory lane…

B:  Memory lane.

J:  And flash back to 1984, 40 years ago, and try to recall these great songs that you wrote, written by Price and Price that were also recorded and covered by Sally McDermott.    

L:  Yeah, I'm just glad that you asked for our input and that's what you got.  Thank you.

J:  Thank you!

L:  I'm glad somebody could record my songs.

J:   OK.

L:  And we're waiting still to see it appear in the Billboard, and maybe that got into the songwriting contest and maybe it won a big prize and I just don't know.

B:  Well, I'm still waiting for my royalty check.

J:  OK, well we're going to be checking into all of these different concerns that we have raised here.  

B:  And thank you!

J:  All right!  Well thank you very much fans of the Rock and Roll Flashback Podcast for listening through another one of our scintillating podcasts!  In this episode - 1984 to 1985, Sally Covers Two Tunes, My Musical Memories Series #5 - I interviewed the songwriting team of Price and Price!  Linda and Bill Price went into detail about their two 1984 hit songs that Sally McDermott covered:  "Baby Baby" and "Back To the Country!"  This podcast, as are all of those in the My Musical Memories series, is dedicated to the memory of my favorite singer, Sally Lehman McDermott.  I'm Jumpin' John McDermott, and I'm Bill Price - and until next time - Rock On!