' One Way to Do It'- Music Professionals chat about their skills.

Rupert Cobb - 'Live at Abbey Road' and much more...

• Paul Brewer • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Rupert Cobb is a force of nature ... I first met him  when  he was recording and mixing (with Engineer Graham Bonnet) the audio for the 'Live at Abbey Road' TV series.

He's an exciting musician, playing trumpet and keys for ... well he mentions a few artists in the podcast !

We reference 'Grace' who's an artist Rupert worked with.

https://www.youtube.com/@graceashtonmusic

 

If you'd like to buy me a coffee - Many Thanks ...

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/GeniusMove


rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 0:28
Yes, I think I'm doing well. I think so. It's a, it's crazy times of millions of different headsets. Now I found myself in between audio and visual, but I've kind of always been that way anyway. So it's kind of, I mean, I've played with cameras since I was a kid, most of my people around me have. And I've always had this thing that people who treat audio and video as important, that's where great stuff is made.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:0:53
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 0:55
And I think that was the reality behind what we were trying to do with Life from Abbey Road, actually, as well, because Peter Van Hook was sort of fed up with one aspect being thought of as a sort of throwaway. Yeah, yeah, so let's, let's, let's have it filmed like a movie and mixed like an album. That's what that, where that was coming from. And I've tried to carry that ethos on to other things I'm working on.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:1:17
And what are you working in, on the audio side these days?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 1:22
Well, I'm working a lot in the motor industry, and I'm also making a show about motors and music that I'm going to have to dance around certain things I can say and certain I can't because there's sort of NDAs within it. But I'm making a show which isn't like a documentary. It's more like, it's more like not breaking the fourth wall. There isn't a presenter because it always ends up about a presenter. And just about passionate people in both worlds. I think that's about, that's about what I can say. But for a global market, but sort of and within that, how can I explain it within that? I've always within that I'm writing music for cars at the same time as still helping musicians and mentoring people when I can. But it's just all hours in the day these days.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:2:08
Yes, indeed. I mean, how many times have we tried to get this podcast going for the last few weeks? Like, you know, I knew you were going to be hard catch.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 2:18
well, we had this weird thing where a couple of weeks ago, I mean, in the crossover worldpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:2:23
What do you mean crossover world now?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 2:25
but by crossover world, I mean, I mean, I dip my toes equally now into the audio world. And the. The, I wouldn't say car, I would say motor world, so cars and motorbikes and things like that. But it, it's all kind of, it's weirdly connected in a way that that, I mean it took, I didn't realize how connected it was actually, cause, and I'm not just talking about famous people with, with cars, but there's for instance, there's a a lady I was talking to the other day, Amanda Walduck, and she was saying, I don't really get the connection between cars and music. And I said, Amanda, you've worked for McLaren. You've got your race card and you play piano in a big band and you can't see the connection. And it's kind of everywhere. I mean, Gary Husband was telling me and I, I try and grab these little storiespaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:14
Is he the drummer? Is he, isrupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:16
yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Works with John McLaughlin and that. But he was telling me about he has this belief that in another life, he's a Formula One racing driver.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:24
Okay.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:26
And when you get him on thepaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:27
life.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:28
yeah,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:29
So he used torupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:30
you get him on thepaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:31
42, didn't he? Who knows?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:33
Yes, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:35
Yes, yes, now I know who he is, yes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:38
He's, he's a very unique man in that he's a beautiful player, but equally skilled on drums and piano. As in he, he can hold his own on either. I mean, he's played piano with Billy Cobham.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:52
Wow,rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:53
and synths with John McLaughlin and that. So, yeah, he's, he's a hell of a player. Yeah.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:3:59
wow.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 3:59
It's although sometimes he looks in so much pain when we're working on synth solos together. I sometimes want to say, what, why do you do this?paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:4:09
I was chatting to a mage yesterday about the fact that we were, my plan was to catch her when I could. And I described you as a renaissance man. Which is very much what you are, really, isn't it? I mean, you have so many skills. Like, the whole Gun Hill Studios thing. Just came out of nowhere as far as I was concerned. I didn't know you were involved, that involved, in the visual side. And then the car link as well. You know how does it work for you? Ha ha ha.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 4:41
been a weird thing because, you know, there's a hilarious thing where you try and plan your life, which is, which, when you, you know, I mean, as in like, if people have ideas of how it's going to go, it bears no resemblance to reality, does it? I mean, but I've, when I was with I've always had the visual thing. Although it comes, the two things bounce back and forwards, but when I was with Mike and the Mechanics, I remember Mike saying to me, Oh, just before we'd started the the tour, I was saying like, Oh you're good at a bit of visuals. Can you fill those screens at the side of the stage? And I was like, well, I'll have a go. And I just ended up filming, weirdly, that hadn't, put the two things together at that point, but filming, filming engine blocks and pistons and thinking Mike and the mechanics and all that and ended up with giant beam engines on from, from the Brighton museum on the side of the stage, bouncing up and down with this and ended up with three laptops. So I was triggering stems VJing, playing trumpet and two keyboards.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:5:41
Ha. Ha ha ha. Mike and Rupert, it sounds like, more like. Ha ha ha.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 5:47
Just part of the puzzle. The puzzle that makes it work. I mean, it's, it's interesting The crossover, it's, it's, it's very strange how it goes round in a loop. Because, like, I was asked to help out in a smaller version of this studio, Gun Hill Studios. And I saw anpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:6:03
is, it is a visual only studio, isn't it?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 6:06
No, not now.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:6:07
Ah, right. Okay, yeah, yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 6:09
no, no. Cause it started out that way. We started on a small one. And then I realized we needed to move to be able to do the things I wanted to do, the crossover things. And the interesting thing with it was my initial interest was it was originally a different. Studio that was asked to help come and rebrand and kind of save. And the reason its limitations was it was only appealing to one market. And one of the things that in this day and age, you need to be able to sort of morph a little bit at least. And I, and I was instantly thinking, Oh, there's music shoots I can do here that I can bring down from London. So it was music shoots and cars. So I was widening the market already. And then we moved to a bigger place, built a new studio. And. The Infinity Cove, the way we shoot the cars, has some really good audio properties. Partly because of the curves that we had built, and we've had bigger curves than are normally in these sort of studios. It was like a lesson in all the things that shortfalls I'd seen in other studios. We're gonna put it right when we move here, and we're gonna be detailed on a level. And then I had the weirdest epiphany as well. My journey with Panasonic an ambassador for Panasonic, who, which carried on from Life Abbey Road in a way. I had a funny thing with Nigel Wilkes at Panasonic, where I was kind of pitching for a show we were doing and various details. And he said to me you don't need to pitch. And I, we hadn't seen each other for a few years. I said, what do you mean you don't need to pitch? She said, you made my favourite show of all time, which I still play in the car, which is Herbie Hancock at Abbey Road. And she said, just what do you need? And it was the shortest pitch I've ever had. But we've had a very good relationship, a bidirectional relationship since, which has worked really well. But the interesting thing that happened was, I realised that everything I knew about audio applies to light.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:8:08
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 8:09
So light bounces in the same way as sound, just faster.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:8:13
Yes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 8:14
So there's loads of things about mic placement. I always look at the think of it like, do you know the film Leon?paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:8:21
Oh, the French yes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 8:23
I use this in some talks sometimes to explain. Skill. So when so is an assassin, that starts at when you're not very good, you need to shoot from a long way off. And the last thing you learn is a, is a knife close up. And the same thing happens with lights and mics. You, you, you must've had it with mics. When you don't know what you're doing, you have to set everything in the world uppaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:8:43
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. That's an interesting idea because we actually discussed this on another podcast recently. The fact that the people who need The audio from the studio, most accurately, are students, so they can hear what's going on.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 9:00
it's a funny thing. I wanna do a piece. I I've just done an album in here with fantastic clarinetist called Adrian Cox. We've just done an album, Going to Vinyl, of Adrian Cox with a string quartet. And one of the things pieces I want to do is show the difference between, like, point loads of mics at a string quartet, right? Point loads of lights at it. It will sound awful and look awful. And then move the mics back, nice deco tree, bounce the lighting off the walls. It will look beautiful and sound beautiful.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:9:31
Right. The simpler, the better.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 9:33
and, and, and using the reflections, you know, in sound, I mean, that's another thing that happens with sound when you're, you don't know what you're doing, you tend to mic everything under the sun, and this, as we were saying, and, and, and you close mic everything, and then when you've got a good player, a good drummer, for instance, you quite often find you can move all the mics back, enjoy the reflections in the room, and the idiosyncrasies are what You remember 20 years from now. I'll give you a really good example of that in the learning of that because I have a few theories that are unproven But it you know, I mean, it's just it's just rants in a way, but that you might find interesting I can still remember the first time I marked piano in studio 2 at Abbey Road And I remember putting the cans on and you know when you you wander around trying to find a sweet spot And then you're going, Oh, it sounds good here. Oh, it sounds good here. Oh, it sounds good here. And then you go, hang on a minute. What I'm actually hearing is my memory of that piano in that room.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:10:34
Yeah, absolutely. And I remember you mentioned this before. The idea of the ambience of Studio Two, particularly. It being a memory because we've heard so much ofrupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 10:48
Yeah. And it is I did the 50th anniversary of Sergeant Peppers at Pinewood.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:10:53
Ohrupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 10:53
and, and it, and we had under license bits of the multitrack and we were going through, it's quite an amazing thing, you're listening to the individual tracks and how well those things were recorded, you know, and then you have to wonder what we've learned, you know, good mic placement, a good vocal with a good idea,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:11:12
Yes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 11:13
know you put, I'll give you a really interesting example of that from another perspective. As in when you have a good performance is I helped a band that was doing a, a, one of these sort of sound alike bands doing Bowie doing a tribute to Bowie tribute band. And they gave me the Bowie album. They wanted it to sound like, and, and with the greatest respect to the vocalist, nice singer. And I said, well, actually, we're going to have to mix it better than that album. Because that album's not necessarily mixed brilliantly, but it's a hell of a performance. You haven't got that performance. I'm not being funny, butpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:11:49
So you have torupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 11:50
know what I mean, don'tpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:11:51
yeah, you have to make up the, the, the the difference in recording with another factor that you can control. Because you can't control it you can't make the performance better.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 12:01
No.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:12:02
And, and do you think that whole 60s thing was all about performances because a lot of the recordings weren't great?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 12:09
Yes, I think it was, and it was about not just that performance, everyone played together more. So when they came into the studio, I mean, I have the most wonderful naive story about myself, about my first recording with a clarinetist called Jack Gilbert. And we gigged together virtually every day and we went into this session. I mean, this guy played all over the world. Phenomenal player, not with us anymore. And. We nailed a setlist up on a beam in this studio in Brighton and when we played for an hour I expected to be handed a CD Didn't have any idea I was about 17 at the time had no idea about the concept of mixing so well We played it all. Where's my CD? You know We were so used to playing together and playing live,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:12:57
And that was the, the finished product, essentially.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 13:00
And and some of those albums I remember speaking to a guy who did One of the Bob Marley albums, and he was saying, backstage we were just chatting and laughing, and he said, I mixed that album in four hours. There's no way anyone would let you do that now. It was just a reel of tape, you get it up, you match it on the desk, you know, and there's still a lot to be said for that. You know, and, and I, I still think some of those, you can almost do that digitally as well. There's no reason why you can't, if you're working on one project, say, these are the channels for this. I mean, Jamiroquai still works like that. He still has, channel seven is the bass track, whatever. Do you know what I mean?paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:13:37
Yeah. Now, I think that rather than the two of us chewing the fat about the good old days, you are a beta tester for Logic and Pro Tools, is that what I hear? Are yourupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 13:52
was, I was a beta tester for Logic. Yeah. Also for Pro Tools. I still work very closely with PreSonus to a certain extent and Native Instruments. I mean, I, I, I like the beta testing stuff on one level. There is aspects that, and I'm going to be, I'm going to tiptoe around here a little bit because there's aspects where I prefer them to be honest. There's a certain brand that once said to me, it's not our software that's wrong, but the way your client wants to use it,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:14:22
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 14:23
And that's where sometimes you get a ranty bear and I'm not, I'm not a big fan of ranty, but I'm not a big fan of this thing of where they say best use of resources and they take features off. I have championed getting some features back on. There was a certain software company that didn't think we needed to label the audio anymore. And I have a thing where I label the audio by the name of the song and the track by what it is. So the regions would be called kick, but the audio would actually be called the name of the song. Therefore, you don't end up with a hard drive full of kick one, Which I think is important. And there is a move away from good housekeeping. Because of a lot of people are working on laptops, which is great. You can do a hell of a lot in the box. I'm not anti movements forward. I, I am a little anti of when things, Oh, you don't need to do all that housekeeping anymore. Because what tends to happen is you don't, while you're working on your own, the moment you're working in a team or the moment you want to send something to somebody else, those rudiments are still important. With me on that.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:15:31
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, and in many ways, it just makes common sense. It's just the additional work involved in doing it is the thing that sort of puts people off. And also, they don't really understand it. You don't, it's just, open up my laptop and make it go.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 15:48
I did a interview a few weeks back and I was with him the other night. I was going to mention actually that somebody I've known for a long time who's sort of blown up massive in the last couple of years. A guy called Fred again.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:15:58
Oh, yes, indeed, yeah. I saw you posted on social,rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 16:02
yeah. And, and he... It's funny him, now saying things back to me, I'm so chuffed that there's some things that, that have become part of his structure that I, that we set up early on, and there's one key thing that I'd forgotten that he's really took to heart in a good way, which is right brain, left brain, which is when you aren't feeling creative, don't fight it, that's when you do your housekeeping,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:16:28
Right, okay.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 16:29
like, So, when you're not feeling creative, make sure your song's got the right name, make sure you know where the latest version is, make sure you're all backed up and that, and all that, and you'll be amazed if you, if you apply that bit to your headspace, how quickly you'll feel creative again, because it's so boring, so it flips your head back the other way, rather than forcing, rather than forcing creative, going, I'm going to be creative,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:16:51
Yeah. I saw another thing about that, just, social media, yesterday, about the idea that if you force yourself to do five minutes of creative stuff, it will either turn into two hours of creative stuff, or you'll skip it. Okay, I only have to wait five minutes here. So it's the idea of cracking open the creative stuff and see where it goes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 17:14
yes, yeah, and, and you, there's also a point where, which we were talking about, about where You used to work all day on a song, you're sometimes better working half an hour per song. If you've got a few things to do, cycle them.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:17:27
Yes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 17:29
A good thing to do. And, and it's, I also think it's really important to find someone to bounce off. And I'm not talking about going and asking loads of people's opinions. Cause, cause that's dangerous in itself. I, I'm a great believer in actually not asking opinions. Cause if someone's got an opinion, they'll tell you.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:17:46
Right, okay.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 17:47
an opinion and you ask their opinion, they'll go and find someone else's.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:17:52
Right, okay.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 17:54
it can be, it can be there's some artists I know that that leave really confident loving a song and then they, they ask a few, few too many people and two days later they're broken and remixing it and you have to really be careful about that, you know.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:18:09
You mentioned somebody to bounce off. Is that somebody you know? Your partners? Who?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 18:16
I think you need, you need, you need a musical foil and in some ways you need a musical foil that's as far away from your own taste as possible. Personally, I think, I mean, I work a lot with, I've got a young engineer called Ben Simpson, who's an amp designer. Andpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:18:33
you mentioned him before as well. Actually, in Abbey Road, you told me about him.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 18:37
Yeah. I mean, he's just some fantastic valve amps with the most amazing wiring and he's, he's mastered amps that, that have great distortion with no hum. I don't know how he's done some of it. It's brilliant, but he's also, he's also a, a style meter. So if I, if I'm going too cheesy, I get the look, you know, but that's an interesting thing as well, because I think it's important to. When I used to work a lot in, I worked with a dance label called Sunnyside Up years ago. I used to run a lot of house tracks. And the one thing I found sort of a bit worrying sometimes when people write music, it's got to be this kick drum, it's got to be this snare and all that. And I personally think you should do the journey, wherever it takes you, whatever you want to do. Don't get bogged down with the detail. And then in the housekeeping time, you can go and look for your kick drum or you can think actually that's a bit too cheesy, you know but do the journey,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:19:36
Yes. Yes. Make the progress as it were. And then at the end of it, you can fine tune whatever is actually needed.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 19:43
And, and there's also a danger of, of trying to be cool. Whereas if you just put that to one side and just wherever, cause I, I see people when I, when I start an idea, sometimes wince. And I just have to bear with it and, and quite often the first idea or the, the, the nugget that leads you somewhere doesn't end up in the finished thing anyway, but you have to let that nugget grow, that seed grow,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:20:08
Rice.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 20:09
we're sort of getting some old beatboxing things, like I recently got a Revolution 309, which was a quasi MIDI, Nightmare to program and just picked up on eBay. I used to use it years ago and so I'm relearning it and and about half an hour after this, me and Bennett keeled over it and every now and again, it goes totally wrong and start some euro rave track on its own. But I never thought I think this is a mistake. And then like 20 minutes later, we just. Put something else into record. We came up with an idea that went on to become a theme for an electric motorbike, but just the journey with it, you know. But I think an important thing that people don't do sometimes is have a device you can get into record quick.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:20:55
Rice.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 20:56
Because it's so easy to lose an idea whilst you're trying to get. That's the one trouble with the computer. If you're booting up, you just, you almost need something stand alone. You can just, ah, your phone doesn't matter what it is. Yeah. Get it into record when you, when you have your first thought. I wrote a song on the M25 once. And just literally had my phone up and in record singing while stuck in a traffic jam. And I'm, I'm definitely not the first person to have done that. But and then come back and stick it on the whirly and that. I'd also say, I'm sorry I'm a bit ranty. I'm trying to get as much useful stuff. I'm a big fan of sharing knowledge as, as you know. I would say to anyone starting out, get synth. If, if, if it's, if it's recording, get one little, get something hardware. Don't think everything is in the box. You know, I mean, it doesn't have to be a million dollars of something. It can be whatever, you know, there's some clones of stuff. That's great. Now, you know, You would you agree with me on that?paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:21:58
I would agree with you that because I think that if your goal is to be an engineer. You have to approach it differently than a musician. And of course you would be an engineer and a musician, so puts you in a different space to get automatically. But you know, the idea of a phone, that can be great to record on, if you want to go hi-fi, if you want to go you know, multi-track, multi-channel. Perhaps a little bit more work and initially has to be, has to be applied to it. I think anyway.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 22:35
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, but it's interesting time. I, I used to work at a studio, Parkgate Studios occasionally and Doug, the engineer there, we used to exchange ideas because he knew more about old school stuff. And I knew more about coming from the electronic stuff. I'd look at the Neve desk and be in awe of all the stuff and he would say sometimes, but yeah, but shortest signal path, you know, as in some of this, you can get good results Buy a decent little audio interface. Shortest single path and good ideas. You know, you don't, every one of these channels is going down a mile of cable. Necessarily mean it's going to be better.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:23:12
yes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 23:13
then what I did early on, when I started working in The Biggest Shoes, well I found a tool, I started thinking, what's the difference, I, because I literally spent everything, whenever I had a decent gig, it just went on another bit of hardware, you know, You know the thing. So the first thing was an Avalon, Avalon 737 was the first thing that made a difference for me. I was like, oh, that's what they want, they're putting their vocals through that. And then decent mics and I still swear by on a microphone, top microphone tip, when, when the budget's there, have a rubbish car and buy a Brawner.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:23:52
Okay. Yeah. And that's interesting because I've been actually to and from with a guy that I'm teaching here at the moment about, yeah. A microphone because it's particularly a mic parts case because actually, which I'm speaking into now at the moment the idea that a microphone will just automatically pick up better stuff. And then you won't have to EQ, then you won't have to compress it as much, etc, etc. It will just automatically be a better sound. And another thing you don't have to think about. Which, your man's a musician, so the idea of not thinking about the technology is a very attractive thing as far as he's Yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 24:36
I, I, I think that yeah, I mean, I was we've just been trying some More ribbon mics actually on there, some quite interesting budget ribbon mics that are good, like for a guitarist, sticking a ribbon mic in front of something makes a hell of a difference. The less you can do in post, I remember when we did Winter Masalas at Abbey Road in my usual, cheeky way I put my hand up and said, can we not make this sound like British jazz, please? As in that, that overly EQ'd, overly clean thing that there was a, there was a period, I think also there was a period that happened in New York as well. The GRP stuff's a bit like that. It's that thing of like students making everything perfect. And if you listen to that session, there's very little EQ at all on it. No one put any cans on. We just played at a level in the room, used the right microphones, and the distance of the microphones. As in, put some cans on and move the microphone about and listen to what it sounds like. Close your eyes and listen to what it sounds like. I think that's, that's another thing I would say. It's easy to do in Pro Tools and Logic, but you can still do it as if you're at the mix stage or you're thinking you want to think about your song in depth, turn your monitors off, turn your, I don't mean your speakers, I mean your, don't look at the screens, because the worst thing you can do sometimes is think, oh, oh, I'm at that point, I better have a bridge now, or I better, which has got nothing to do with music. Okay.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:26:06
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 26:07
is about listening and reacting to people. You know, the fact that it's bar 17 in logic doesn't mean it's time for a bridge.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:26:16
I understand that the, sense of that as well. Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 26:20
I dunno whether you've view the experienced this, but I, We bought because I'm trying to teach Ben about sort of, he's come up through logic and I'm, as he's more of an audio engineer, I'm moving him more towards Pro Tools from a mix point of view because I think it will serve him better long term and it is, it is more reliable. I mean,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:26:40
Yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 26:40
But we bought, this is a hilarious, we bought the other day an old Pro Tools 10 system to muck about on. Put a load of cards in it. And, and I'd love to do a blindfold test, but everyone has been raving about this album we mixed on Pro Tools 10. And it was so bliss using, using DSP and no computer power and no spinny balls.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:27:07
Yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 27:08
and, and how good some of those reverbs sounded on 10.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:27:12
Yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 27:13
And some of those plugins, and, and plugins that you can't get anymore, like I really miss the URS stuff. Did you ever get into those?paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:27:21
Yeah, absolutely. And I think I still have some Not active, but, I still have some of the Installers, Irupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 27:29
I have a thing with some of the systems now, even, the trouble I find with the everything being in the box virtual thing is, I'm not always convinced about the delay compensation.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:27:40
You mentioned that back in the day, and has that not really fixed itself now?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 27:47
Oh, it's fine on a, on a, on a, on a snow leopard, 10. 68, running Pro Tools 10, till the cows come home.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:27:56
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 27:57
But there's, there's definitely some things I hear in phase sometimes, and it's not the same twice. That's what worries me the most.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:28:05
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 28:06
Do you know what I mean, if you're listeningpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:28:08
Yeah, it's not the same to fix it then either, because you can't reproduce the thing. Any chance it could be imagination?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 28:15
We, we've tried, there's certain plugins, I don't want to, I don't want to mention, there's certain plugins is that, we both look at each other, me and, me and Ben, and then we go, right, that one's, that one's, we're turfing that one out. There's certain ones that don't set the, the numbers back enough. I know that I'm quite an extremist in that I can bust most computers by, I want everything to work in real time. But then, that's kind of how I built my career, was being able to work as fast as a songwriter. I don't want to have to stop a computer to put another beat on. I don't, I want to be able to tap tempo and hit record. I don't want to have to type in a new tempo, And some of that stuff definitely doesn't work as well now as it did when we had, I mean it was even better on, it sounded like an old crone, it was even better on OS9 to be honest. On OS9 you could start a computer in time with a band.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:29:08
Right, okay.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 29:09
Because you could turn virtual memory off.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:29:11
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 29:12
Virtual memory means everything has to always look ahead.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:29:16
Because virtual memory is using the disk. Isn't that correct?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 29:19
yes, yeah, yeah. It's got a lot better, now things have gone solid state I think. Now a lot of laptops are a lot more solid state, but, It's interesting. But yeah, sopaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:29:29
do you think they, just go back to the lay thing. Could the lay thing be a product of People, so many people making plugins these days who perhaps don't have the history to sort of perfect it before they release it. You know the old, release it and let the, let the punter sort it out the problems,rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 29:50
Yeah. I mean there's definitely, there's definitely a lot more, we are definitely all beta testers nowpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:29:56
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 29:57
on a lot of things. I don't mind it when they're up front about it. Like, I'm a big fan of, I edit a lot of video now in DaVinci Resolve. And there, there's always three versions. There's the stable version, there's the beta, and then there's the third one, which is if you really want to try your luck, you know. But the crossover thing's really interesting, and I think artists are going to have to accept more and more the fact that Your revenue stream will be crossover as well as in it's, there's, there's a lot of money in the film industry and, and singer songwriters and that should be thinking about pitching to that world as well, you know, rather than. Just thinking about well, is there even such a thing as a top 20 now? But I definitely think you should cross over in that The the one thing that is interesting to touch on that we've done here at gun all studios which came out of lockdown Was a certain MP Which is soon. I think it was and you can you can cut it out if you like, but but said aboutpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:31:00
to me over here.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 31:01
No, no, no, no, no, no. Said about musicians retraining.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:31:06
Oh right, yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 31:08
and it really got my back up. And as a result, we started live streaming from here. And initially, and I told the team, I said it's going to take us a few of these to get right. Because we're going to do it, as you know me, in a, in a, in a kind of extreme way. So we're going to live mix. We're going to live light. We're going to live multi cam with multi cam with proper cameraman on all the cameras and then I'm going to invite good musicians into this space. And it did take, it did take about four. The first one, we did it while we were still connected to BT and the internet went down half an hour before we went live.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:31:44
Ah,rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 31:45
And then we rang BT and it was like, it'll be back online in half an hour or Tuesday. So we then got hardwired. So we literally concrete dug up. We're hardwired to the main grid now, and we can do eight cameras here at 4K, live broadcast,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:32:03
Wow.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 32:04
and, and live mixing the whole work. So we did some things with some of the bands in London we worked with. We did some things with Richard Bailey I used to play with Stevie Winwood and that. I've done some fusion things in here for him. A few different things. But yeah, so we opened the door to musicians within that world as well now, so that's, that's a good thing. You know.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:32:23
That facility you have to do work that's of a high visual quality as well and live. Does that mean that it opens a new market to you? Like do customers come and book it for that reason?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 32:41
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's yes, yes, very much. So, I mean, we've even got a, it's an odd studio cause it's, it's the to summarize it's two motorized floors, but on one motorized floor where the main stage is, I had the turntable redesigned so it can take power. So the whole band can spin it, rotate if I want to whilst playing. And then I've also got a live stage I've got a dressing room where I can change the white balance to match whatever white balance I'm shooting in on the cove. I mean, the level of detail is... Is a bit ridiculous, but the whole team, we have a saying here, we were going to have a new strap line, which is spectrum. We're on it because everyone in our team is, is a bit extreme. But I mean, we, we write, we write themes for motorbikes based on the sound of the piston of the motorbike. You know, we'll slow down a piston and use it to kick drum, you So Sonics is, is quite important. But if you look back through time, one of the best... The editor of Apocalypse Now is a sound engineer, the film editor, Walter Murch. You know, that crossover has always been there, you know.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:33:53
And do you think that that might be an area that people might be pushing themselves automatically because of the fact that, a sound lad doesn't have to worry about the film things and the film things didn't have to really worry about what the sound lads are. Whereas somebody who encompasses them both can see another, an option, a third, a third way of looking at things and stuff like that.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 34:13
Yes, yes, definitely. And, and I think it composition wise helps as well. When you think of what coming back full circle to songwriting, one of the things I talk about a lot is, is songwriting. Everything is about observation. So it's important to have your eyes open to write songs, if you know what I mean, you know, for looking for influences. I mean, from a writing point of view, near the end of his life, I used to teach Spike Milligan trumpet when he had Parkinson's, taught him to play again with Parkinson's. And he used to talk about He used to get a runabout ticket on the, on the railway. There used to be this ticket where you could sit on the train for a week, go wherever you like in the country. And he'd sit there with a notepad, listening to people and looking for inspiration, you know. And, and I think that's important for music, for picture, for all sorts of things. I mean, I wrote a song once from a microphone falling out of a stand and playing a set of notes on a piano that gave me the opening hook of a song, you know. You knowpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:35:17
There's a snippet that I'm going to use to advertise thisrupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 35:21
But it is to observation is everything Brian Eno was when I was talking to Fred Brian Eno Talks about witnessing about being It's the same thing, paying attention. You know, you meet someone on the street, then get chatting to them, they might end up on a record. You know, it's I've had some amazing chance meetings on trains, in petrol stations, you know ended up sitting next to people that I've ended up using on records, you know, all sorts of things, you know, I think it's really important to not just sit in front of a laptop, but get out there, you know.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:36:01
And do you think that the average person doesn't have access to that because they're so busy being busy?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 36:12
Yeah, it's a easy thing. I mean, our society keeps us busy now and there's aspects about it that I, I mean, I had this very conversation the other night where we were talking, we, we were being devil's advocate backwards and forwards about, is it better now or was it better years ago, like communication and like, is it better that everyone can communicate on laptop phone all the time. I do find it sad that you can sit somewhere, you can go out to a pub, garden and look at everyone on their phone. I find that a bit sad sometimes and I almost feel like it would be great if there was a day of the week the phone didn't work or something but, but, and the, and understanding that device has been designed to keep you occupied. I mean, without getting into conspiracy things or something, this device has been designed to make you need to check it, to make you need to. It's not easy to turn things on and off. You knowpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:37:10
But at the same time, you may recall how we met was on MySpace.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 37:15
Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As I say, you can argue everything both ways and it's great having a device with you. And I mean, I had the funniest thing and we were talking about it. I keep coming back to Fred only because he was the last person I was doing what we're doing now with. And I said to him the other day, I said, you bugger. I said, well, what do you mean? He said, well, I, I used to give him a real hard time about the portrait the other day. phone thing. This is hilarious actually, because one of the things you have to do is admit when you were wrong in life. So I gave him such a hard time, and there is aspects about the portrait thing that are, that, youpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:37:50
What is therupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 37:51
and lanterns.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:37:53
torupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 37:53
so everyone holds their phone this way. My problem I have with it is, is it's indicative of an era. As in, if we're not careful, portrait, landscape is about community, right? And also, it's the shape of a lot of things. And it's the way a lot of pictures are done. Portrait is about me. You know, so everything, if you're not careful, everything becomes. Central on one person, right? But it doesn't have to be that way. I'm just saying, I'm just being devil's advocate. But here's the thing. So I used to moan going back years to Fred about the portrait thing. Then last year he invited me to his gig at the Roundhouse. And the whole back of his stage is a massive phone.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:38:33
Oh, right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 38:34
portrait phone. He's made his stage set a portrait phone and it's great and I have to go, yep, you're right mate, that really works and, and you're on it. And whatpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:38:45
played Glastonbury as well, didn't he?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 38:46
yes he did,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:38:47
Yeah, that's what I, I, I noticed a lot of sort of observed social media observation about him then because I hadn't really, I wasn't really aware of him then, up until that point. Works.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 38:59
yes, I think the thing that he's done and kept really well is he's, he's very natural. And he's almost made when so many things are false, he's made being natural hip, which it should be anyway, but he, he's very natural the thing that I think people have to get is just like when we were walking around Sowa the other night, he had the time for everyone that recognized him and stopped him. And I think that's an old school thing that is really useful. I mean, like Paul Carrott, when he's playing in the theaters, he'll go and do local radio. And that, there's a great saying by Quincy Jones, which is the only justification in looking down on anyone is to bend down and pick them up. And I think it's a good way of living a life. And I think the moment you, you get too up yourself you're in danger. And I like the, the fact that Fred's still very natural and he's, and he's still doing that thing of looking for, for Sonics. I saw a thing he did the other day where one of the guys load loading in the kit was singing his song. So he, he just put his phone into record and got the guy to sing at the phone, and then he remixed that into the track.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:40:12
Released it thatrupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 40:13
Yeah. And I think that's great. And, and that's, there's an outfit I used to do years ago. Called Hazardous Funk, which was my first beat programming thing. And I used to do it mainly as a, I used to have a residency in Brighton in a student bar, and it was a great way of telling whether, when I was working on lots of dance stuff, whether a groove worked or not. It was a really good way, because students will tell you so quick if something doesn't work. And it's very easy and it's one of the failings, I think, of some older musicians sometime is to write music in a cell, in a studio where they've got no connection with the outside world and then there's no way of knowing whether that works till release. It worked fine when music was a lot more separate, when it was all about having a big budget, but it doesn't work so well now. You've got to be connected to the people you're playing to, I think, you know.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:41:04
Yeah., that's the blues rock thing as well. Like you know, where does blues rock fit into the current world? Well, it doesn't really because we've moved on so far and, you know, it's the observation the current lads been into that and that's grand. But, it doesn't, it doesn't relate to, it certainly doesn't relate to me anyway.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 41:27
This was another conversation I was having the other day, and I'm not going to go into naming names, but I was talking about... I was talking to someone a few years ago about the Mercury Awards, right? And this was a particular old rocker of note, which I'm not going to mention, but and, and it was amongst a group of old rockers of note. And they laughed and said, and I said, Oh, it's quite interesting stuff. And they laughed and said, Oh, if it's won the Mercury, it can't be any good. And I found it quite sad, actually that I don't want to be that guy. I mean, there's you've got to keep, keep your ears open and you've got to find merit in something I think. And, there's a thing that when was working with Niles Barkley, there's a thing that danger Mouse said about always having, for instance with Mix, always having one shit sound in there. One thing that's not quite right. And then having the confidence to deliver it. And I think, actually, I'm in that camp. Having something you think, what the hell's that doing in there that makes you like, that doesn't necessarily fit into a genre. Well, there's also a thing with. There's an A& R man I used to sit in a room with who I try and get this across to young artists of how short attention span is and the fact that if, if you do something generic, even if it's great, if it's generic, you, it's not going to be listened for more than 10 seconds The guy's got to get through a hundred tunes today or however many,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:42:59
Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah,rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 43:00
You have something that makes them look up, be bold, you know? I think that's important. There's a few key things I think. I think be bold, keep it short, get to the point, I I mean, and if you look at people even going way back in time, Beatles were very good at that, weren't they? You know, they'd openpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:43:18
Did it okay? The punk records and stuff were like, a two and a half minute was an opus for a punk record. Ha ha ha.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 43:27
I I was sent some stuff the other day and I was trying to explain that the four minute intro, however good it was, was going to mean no one was ever going to listen to it. I mean, have that on the extended 12 inch by all means. But it is funny in life where I've actually become, I'm, I'm a lot more cutthroat too. with music. Now, even my own, when you're younger, you can be, you can be too precious or think or the worst thing anyone can do is think because I spent a week on those drums. I mean, I'll give you a really good example of that. You were there for this actually, when we did the string quartet and the, and to be frank, the strings didn't cut it. You got to have the balls to say that didn't work, we've got to do that, that better. I had a learning experience early on with, with Peter Van Hook, he taught me a hell of a lot about production. We fight like cat and dogs to this day sometimes, but I will defend him to the end of the earth at the same time. And that's what, that's what good musical partnerships are about. It's separating that when someone's not happy with something, it's not personal. We're just trying to get the best out of something. He would rip apart singer songwriters stuff. To try and get something else out of them. And one of the things that he didn't like, that I'd learnt off him and he's absolutely right, was don't make a backing track for a singer to sing on the top of. You know, make the vocal, you know, make the vocal performer work, yeah, and then make the track work around the performer. But I remember him giving, we, we did this album, and we'd spent weeks on various bits of it, and when he got to the drums, We spent a week on the drums and trying all these different things. And at the end of the week, of all the different things we tried, he said, none of it works. Delete the whole lot, we'll start again. And he was right. And then we ended.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:45:26
confident person to do that.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 45:29
Yeah, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work and not be caught up in the, Oh, that's a week of my work that we, I must fight for the existence of that. You know, I have a funny thing when I write a lot of music for cars and motorcycles now and without exception, the first thing I write never makes it.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:45:51
Okay.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 45:52
a second thing, but I have to believe each time the first one is going to.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:45:57
Alright, so this is going torupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 45:58
have to con yourself.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:45:59
yes.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 46:01
Yeah,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:46:01
This is the day we're going to do it. The first one's going to do it.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 46:04
is definitely. Nope. Never makes it never makes it. They did you but but it's that stepping stone to the thing that does, youpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:46:12
Yeah, which is the important thing, is to get to the Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 46:17
We had a young rapper watching me and Ben work in the studio that we're going to do some bits with the other day and, and he looked so confused at this 309 drum rhythm that we started on this thing and we were all excited about it. And then he was even more confused when it was the only thing that didn't end up in the song.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:46:36
Alright, okay.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 46:37
but we wouldn't have got to the other bits without doing that bit.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:46:40
Yes. That idea is a sensible idea in terms of it allows you to go to the end, but how often does that happen then? Everything you start off doesn't make the, to the end? Is that how it works?rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 46:56
There's a weird loop with it. Sometimes, sometimes it works the other way where I remember playing some really naff down electro guitar on a track. With rusty scooped strings. It was just a thing, and it was something like a little blues hook that we were going to change. And then we got, and who did we get in? Oh, I'm not going to say who we got in. We got in a top player, spent a week recording all this stuff, and then Pete went back to my Naftan electric guitar because it was the right hook for the song.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:47:28
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 47:29
so the fact that it was a bit, I was struggling to play it. The, the struggling was better than the musicalitypaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:47:37
Yes, in, in that context, of course.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 47:40
that context, you know?'cause,'cause the song is the boss, the song is the boss. We are its humble servant. And you mustn't get in the way of the song, and it's a sort of an ego that can do that. It's difficult sometimes when you get into a situation with a label where again you get to the point where there's bean counters thinking about the amount of something's costing. And then you've got the thing of they want to see the money on the track or on the screen. And you have to, again, if something doesn't work, it's, it doesn't work, you know,paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:48:12
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 48:12
Be prepared to drop it despite.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:48:16
To go back to Peter and Grace's session. How did Peter react to Grace? And the song that that's up on YouTube.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 48:28
Great actually. She, he, he got on great with her. I mean, it was a, it was an interesting journey. The funny thing about that is I used to, when I, when I was, when I was 16, 17, I was a complete jazz snob and I the journey you go on. I mean, I, I didn't, when I was 16, I would leave the room if someone put something on with an electric instrument on it. But. Point I'm getting to is, is, and then I used to be miffed when it was, yeah, I know, I know. Do you know what though? It's given me, I can't be annoyed at anyone else with that viewpoint because I know I had it.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:49:06
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 49:06
Do you get what I mean? As in, we occasionally come across it. I come across it when I'm doing, and I'm amazed at. A certain type of train spotter, but you'll have to smile and just go. Okay, you get it in all walks of music. You get it when I'm on tour with Bad Manners. You get, you get the people who like, of course, isn't this isn't how a ska gig would have been. These, these, these posters would have been done by hand. These have obviously been printed. You get those sort of people. You just have to go. Okay, you know, you know, but the point I was going to make was that particular album. There was two tracks. I used to be annoyed when someone, when I turn an album over and I wouldn't understand why it was a different drummer on this track or that track because I always wanted the album to be all the same band. And then when itpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:49:54
And was that sonically or just the idea of therupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 49:57
the idea of it, I wanted to, I wanted a band to be a band when I'm going back to when I was 16, 17, 18. Yeah. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. But but come cut two years later, I had this young drummer with grace who was great, but it was too young to do a ballad properly.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:50:16
Yeah,rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 50:17
songs that needed finesse and he, he wasn't happy with me about it. I use Peter Van Hook onpaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:50:25
right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 50:27
I deliberately wanted a young drummer that had that snap. So I wanted, so he was right for the other tracks and he was, and I also didn't want Grace to be surrounded by older musicians. So I wanted her to have hip musicians, but different people bring in different sensibility. And then, and then funny enough, after that album, we tried sizing it down even further to just getting her to play more piano and just bass and drums. But anyway, the thing with those two tracks, the funny thing is. Five years later, I think it's about five years later, that drummer, but but five years later, that drummer came up to me and said, I understand now. He was, he'd become this hip guy on the, new kid on the block a few years before he probably should have been, do you get what I mean? And I'm not being, this is not me being bitchy, but the bit that makes it interesting is a few years later him coming up to me and going, I get it now. You know. Because there's certain things, like, like there's the 6 8 track. Look ba da da da da da da da da dapaul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:51:33
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 51:35
And that's, that's Peter Van Hook gold. That boof boof bah dack do do boof boof. That's, that's something that, it takes a while to be able to, to be able to be sympathetic to a singer. You know. And I think that's the greatest thing, the song is the boss, you know.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:51:53
Yeah.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 51:54
Don't get in the way. I don't want to hear how clever your fills are. I don't care.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:51:59
Yes,rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 52:00
like I remember doing another album with Pete and looking at him, and it was a string quartet thing actually, and him saying, looking slightly sort of annoyed and that, and I said, what's wrong Pete? And he said, the string arranger is showing off.paul_brewer-Rupert__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1:52:22
Right.rupert_cobb-0bgoa8nas__raw-audio_rupert-recording_2023-jul-30-0244pm_genius_move-1: 52:22
is trying to trying to get more work. Yeah, and it's not about the song. You know and that's and that was a lovely. The thing we've just done with Adrian Cox is it was a very beautiful string arranger actually. And it is all in keeping with the, with the songs and, and compliments Asian fantastically. But yeah, I'll send you some of that stuff. And Adrian's favorite microphone now is the Brawner, which works fantastically on the clarinet. And that's a mic you don't need to EQ. So I use it on the trumpet as well. A good, large diaphragm mic with good playing.




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