In this episode Justin B talks with Josh Walpole, a sex addict living in long-term recovery as well as a therapist who specializes in treating sexual addiction and betrayal trauma. We discuss the importance and perhaps necessity of qualified therapy to help all involved prepare and brace for impact. Both the impact of the consequences of the addiction and betrayal; as well as to prepare all parties for the impact for good that they can and will have in the world as they recover. Listen in on this vulnerable and powerful conversation and get motivated to recover, heal, and impact the world for good.
Find Josh Walpole at circlesofgrace.health
SA Lifeline Foundation
SAL 12 Step
Find an SAL12Step Meeting
Donate
Contact to ask questions or make comments
Transcripts
In this episode Justin B talks with Josh Walpole, a sex addict living in long-term recovery as well as a therapist who specializes in treating sexual addiction and betrayal trauma. We discuss the importance and perhaps necessity of qualified therapy to help all involved prepare and brace for impact. Both the impact of the consequences of the addiction and betrayal; as well as to prepare all parties for the impact for good that they can and will have in the world as they recover. Listen in on this vulnerable and powerful conversation and get motivated to recover, heal, and impact the world for good.
Find Josh Walpole at circlesofgrace.health
SA Lifeline Foundation
SAL 12 Step
Find an SAL12Step Meeting
Donate
Contact to ask questions or make comments
Transcripts
Brace for Impact: Why Qualified Therapy is Vital in Recovery w/ Josh Walpole
[00:00:00]
Welcome to the pathway to recovery podcast. My name is Justin B. I am a son of an all powerful and all loving God and a recovering sex addict in recovery, gratefully sober since June 19th of 2015 and every day is a miracle. I'm grateful to be one of the hosts of the Pathway to Recovery podcast. Today before we get started with our conversation with Josh, (who is [00:01:00] going to introduce himself here in a minute and we'll get to know him and a little bit more about him and what the importance of qualified therapy is in the recovery puzzle of SAL), I want to announce a very important event that is coming up for SA Lifeline Foundation. It's the VisionCast 2024.
As we gear up for an impactful 2024, we invite you to be a part of our mission to support individuals on their journey to recovery from sexual betrayal and unwanted sexual behavior. Now, in order to attend this, on February 6th of 2024, between 7 and 8 p. m. Mountain Standard Time you do need to register.
And you can register at salifeline.org. There is a link there to register for this VisionCast. A link will be sent to you to join in the Zoom event, where you can, one, learn what SA Lifeline has going forward in 2024. And two, if you are able [00:02:00] and willing, to become a valued monthly or annual donor or bid on some really meaningful products that members of SAL have donated that are important to them in their own recovery. So come and join in on this VisionCast 2024 online fundraiser.
Justin B: Alright, so I'm joined here today by Josh Walpole. He is a friend of mine in recovery. We worked together in SAL, but he's also somebody that is uniquely qualified to talk today on our topic of the day, which is qualified therapy.
But before we get into that topic, Josh, why don't you take just a minute, introduce yourself and give a brief background about what brought you into the rooms of recovery.
Josh Walpole: So like probably many other people I had several different attempts at recovery and some were successful for a period of time. This last one has lasted, but there was a lot of failure up to that point. So I have had a failed marriage in my early 20s. I was married for a little while and we did some couples [00:03:00] counseling.
And at the time I chose my addiction over the marriage because that's where I was at. And several years later, after doing some therapy, being in a better place, I wasn't happy with kind of where I was at and my addiction was not providing what it promised. And so I wanted to change my life and move on.
And so I did some therapy, got some sobriety, and felt like I was in a pretty good place. I had a mutual friend introduce me and my current wife and when she set us up, she knew I was a sex addict and said, “Hey, date Josh, but don't marry him. ‘because he's a sex addict.”
And one of the differences was that I was super honest. I was radically honest, transparent with her, and because of that I felt like I was in a new place and she fully trusted me and we fell in love and decided to get married. And, and so things went pretty [00:04:00] well. But then we bought a house, we had a kid, stressors came on, and I just, I didn't have the tools, or I wasn't prepared enough for kind of hard things.
I was at a good recovery level on the surface, but it wasn't very deep and so I went back into my addiction. Since she already knew that I was an addict, I just thought “Well, maybe I can just take this to the grave or I can just kind of clean this up on my own and maybe she won't know about it and we'll just kind of move on. I don't want to devastate her.”
And it was more about, I didn't want to devastate me, but that was my justification. And so obviously my behavior kind of changed. My attitude changed and my wife thought, “Hey, something's off,” and she said, “Hey, I heard about this place that deals with sexual addiction recovery called Lifestar. We should go check it out and [00:05:00] see.”
And she's like, “I know you're not acting out right now, but we should go check it out just to get some help. Because it feels like our marriage is a little off.” And unbeknownst to her, I was acting out at the time. And so I went kicking and screaming because I kind of knew, “Oh man, this is where I'm going to be found out.”
But in going through that process, there were some things that were discovered about myself and things discovered about my addiction that gave me some hope that this is maybe possible. That maybe something could change, that maybe I could be different and maybe I could even save my marriage. And so I decided to go both feet in and really try.
And maybe we'll get into this more a little bit later, but I did individual therapy. I did couples therapy. We did a full disclosure. I did group therapy. I joined a 12 step group and basically was full time in recovery. And, then it transitioned to one point [00:06:00] where I said, “I'm doing this for me no matter what, whether the marriage survived or not, this is something that I want.”
So being able to do the group therapy, individual therapy, and then the 12 step kind of gave me the strength and the hope and the support to push me forward.
Justin B: Thank you for sharing that, Josh.
Justin B: I got a couple of questions based on what you shared there.
First, you said you had a failed marriage early on in your twenties and that ended, and we don't need to go into details with that. But as your current wife fell in love with you and you fell in love with her and you were practicing rigorous honesty, in that place, why did you choose to be honest then in striving to live a sober life or a life abstinent from acting out?
Josh Walpole: Part of it was I just wanted to do it differently and I had some decent recovery and some sobriety kind of at that time. And I wanted to see if maybe a real life was possible because I just felt [00:07:00] destined to, I don't know, just be a wanderer or never really have any real connections.
And so, I thought, “Man, here's an opportunity. Let's see if something can come of this.” And yeah, it felt really good to be super honest. It was different. It was weird. It was exciting in kind of a weird sort of way to just be fully honest and open and to be seen. I think that was probably the first time I really allowed myself to be really seen by somebody else. And she received me which was great. And so that just kind of fueled the fire until things became too much.
Justin B: So were you doing like 12 step work or therapy at that point or was it just, “Hey, I'm choosing to be honest and open in this situation,”?
Josh Walpole: So, I did some prior 12 step work and individual therapy for a year or two before we met. So I wasn't doing anything at the time.
Justin B: Okay. So, you did have some treatment, you had addressed some of the problems and not just [00:08:00] white knuckled before that point. That's a good background. I appreciate that. So the next thing you mentioned is that you got married, the stressors came on, you didn't have the depth of tools and weren't using those tools to deal helpfully with those stressors that came on. As you look back would you change anything that would have happened now looking back? Or is that something that has brought you to where you are today?
Josh Walpole: Yeah, that's a really good question. My knee jerk reaction is that yeah, I would go tell my younger self all the treacheries and traumas and problems that are going to happen. But then on the flip side, all the miracles and benefits and gratitude that's going to come. And I don't think I could have experienced the depth of gratitude and joy without going to those depths.
I refer to it as a [00:09:00] slingshot effect. So the further you pull the slingshot, the further down you go. When you do finally release, you're bound to go even higher. And so, I would just say “Brace for impact,” I guess is what I [would] tell my younger self. I don't want to change it.
Justin B: Yeah, brace for impact. . I love that phrase. And I love the concept, the slingshot concept.
Justin B: So, let's kind of go [to] where you went into Lifestar, you did group therapy, couples therapy, individual therapy, you did 12 steps. What do you think has been one of the more meaningful parts of your recovery work [out] of those things? What do you look back at and you say, “That's the hinge pin moment”?
Josh Walpole: So probably disclosure was a big part of it. We did the phase one program, which is a six week course where we do it with couples, and then we break out into a men's group and a woman's group. [00:10:00] And I was still lying and deceitful, even in my group for a period of time. And so I think there were two moments that kind of shifted that. One is that all the guys were going to go to this men's retreat, in my group, and they wanted me to go as well.
And I just wasn't in a place that I wanted to go, a little bit financially but mentally, emotionally I just didn't really want to go. And so I told him, “You know, I'll give it some thought. I'll think about it.” And as I was walking out of the room of that group, I stopped and I'm like, “I'm lying. I'm not going to think about it. I'm not going.”
So, I stopped and turned around. I said, “Guys, sorry. I'm not going. And nothing against you guys. I just don't want to go.” And instead of them being upset with me, they all came over and hugged me. And they're like, “ Oh, that's so great. Thank you for letting us know. We appreciate you being honest.”
And man, it was just different and felt good to be accepted by other guys, even though I was kind of letting them down by not [00:11:00] going. And it was right around that same time that I was preparing for disclosure. And one of the parts of disclosure is we're only as sick as our secrets. And so I had to start purging myself of my secrets.
Justin B: What you shared there about the acceptance you felt from that group of guys, from the Lifestar group kind of sounds very familiar to what you talked about when you started dating your current wife. How you were honest with her and she accepted you for that honesty. Have you found that that's true? If I'm honest with somebody, I'll be more accepted for who I am. What's your experience with that?
Josh Walpole: So, yes, absolutely. The crazy part, though, is it's so hard to do. It's so hard to be vulnerable that sometimes we just aren't or we make excuses or justifications.
But the times that I am fully honest and I'm seen, it's usually received very, very well. And even if it's [00:12:00] not, I can't even think of a time off hand that that hasn't happened, I at least feel good about me. So I can walk away feeling good about me in that moment.
Justin B: Yeah, and I'll speak for myself here. You know, those moments where it's like, “Man, if I'm honest here, it's gonna be rough. I worry that I'm gonna feel bad about myself if I say, ‘You know what guys? I'm not gonna go to this retreat with you, it's just not what I want to do right now,’ I won't feel better about myself.”
So I fear being honest for that reason. Does that make sense? Does that resonate with you?
Josh Walpole: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's part of why, when my addiction kind of resurfaced after being super honest with my wife, it was a hard thing to deal with. Because I'm like, “I either have to say something now and, and brace for impact, or I'm just going to have to be quiet and hide and [00:13:00] lie.”
And unfortunately, I chose that option. And so then it was years later that we finally came into recovery and that moment in the group, where I was honest and I was practicing honesty by preparing for the disclosure, that I'm like, “Oh, yeah, I remember this. It was really nice and felt really good. Why haven't I been doing this?”
Justin B: Thank you for sharing this and it sounds like a lot of these principles and concepts you learned and practiced in these therapy groups, therapy sessions, individual couple and group therapy. So were there any other roles that therapy played in your early recovery and in your early re-recovery that you'd like to touch on here?
Josh Walpole: Yeah. The first part of therapy that I did and kind of some 12 step group work, it was beneficial. It was helpful. It was mostly just changing my ways of thinking, to [00:14:00] change my behavior. But I don't feel like we ever really got to the root of it, or what was going on for me. But, I don't know what at the time, I felt like I was in a pretty good place and then, sobriety was my only measuring stick.
And so I'm like, “If I'm sober, then I guess that's good enough.” I didn't realize there was more to recovery. That recovery is kind of a different thing than just sobriety. And so I just was hanging my hat on, “Hey, I'm sober. And that's good enough. That's all I can provide.”
Justin B: So let me backup just a little bit.
Justin B: Josh, you are now a therapist who specializes in sexual addiction and treating people who deal with sexual addiction, whether it's themselves or a spouse or whatever. Was there a moment in your own recovery walk that made you go, “Huh. This is what I want to do,” or “This is what I'm supposed to do, become a therapist in this way.” Why are you a therapist that specializes in these things?
Josh Walpole: [00:15:00] Yeah, good question. So ultimately what happened is after the disclosure, it was brutal. My wife compares it to a nuclear bomb. And so it took her a while to kind of decide what she wanted. And we ended up selling our house and moving and starting over.
She said, “It's a house of lies. And if we're going to start over, we're moving to a new house and starting a new foundation.” And right after the disclosure she said, “You got to do more recovery.” And I'm like, “I feel like I'm already doing a ton and spending a ton of money.”
And she's like, “Well, I think you need to go to a 12 step program. And that's the one thing you're not doing right now.”
And [I said], “I don't know when I can fit that in.” And she's like, “Well, you better figure it out.” So I started going to 12 step and that was really helpful. It's different from a therapy group. But working the 12 steps and then having a sponsor or contact person just kind of brought in a different element, [00:16:00] something else that I really needed.
People talk about, in our addiction and in our marriage, the betrayal trauma piece. It's kind of like burning the house down or destroying the house. Part of the rebuilding process is putting a bunch of scaffolding around so that we can rebuild.
And so I think 12 step was just another of the added pieces, scaffolding that I really needed to help [me]. And so doing that, getting involved in that, was really good and really beneficial for my recovery and seeing other people kind of down the road, doing it. Then ultimately when I got to a place where I could become a sponsor, I stepped into that and just loved it.
I really enjoyed sharing my experience, strength and hope with others and having them be in a tough situation and me trying to figure out how to best help them and incorporate that. And it's working step 12. I just fully embraced it and it became a way of life. I got to [00:17:00] thinking, “Man, I want to do this full time.”
And so this men's retreat that I talked about, the one I didn't go to before, I went to later. And one of the things they have us do is… it's a retreat for connecting with God. And one of the assignments they have us do is go to God and ask how God sees you and pray for a new name, that’s kind of the concept. And so in that connection with God I felt like he called me to be a therapist and I'm like still super young in my recovery And I'm like, “No, I don't even know what I'm doing yet. I don't know if I can really help other people that well,” and God's kind of like, “Well you have to go to school and that's going to take some time. So get on it.”
And so I came home and I talked to my wife about that and she's like, “Yeah, that's great.” And so I sat on that for probably six months and then my wife started yelling a little louder. God started yelling a little louder. My inner [00:18:00] voice was yelling louder and I'm like, “All right, fine. I’ve got to do it.” And so I went back to school and became a therapist.
Justin B: Wow, that's really cool. How many years have you done schooling to get to where you are today as a therapist?
Josh Walpole: So I already had a Bachelor's, so I went back for just my Master's degree in counseling, about two and a half years.
And I was probably a year and a half into recovery when I started. Then two and a half years later I was a therapist sitting there telling people, helping them along their way.
Justin B: You mentioned going into 12 step rooms and it not being like group therapy, but kind of feeling somewhat similar to that. I hear this from a lot of people going into a twelve step room is “It’s just like free or really cheap group therapy. All I’ve got to do is put a few dollars in the hat or in the Venmo account or whatever, a couple of [00:19:00] times a month and it doesn't cost me a hundred dollars an hour to do therapy.
Tell us the truths behind that and tell us some of the falsehoods or the incompletions behind that type of belief system, from your experience.
Josh Walpole: So it's free. I always offer that [advice] in the first session with everybody. “Go to 12 step. All 12 steps have Zoom meetings, they have in person meetings. But, just go, just attempt, just try, it's free.” Or “Group therapy is going to cost you some money, so at least do a 12 step group.”
And, it's good that way, financially it's good. But it takes on a different role, or a different feeling, because we're all addicts. And we’re together, and we're all striving for one purpose, and there's just this feeling or this sense or this power behind that that we're all there trying to help each other out.
Whereas in group therapy we have a therapist, a facilitator, leading us [00:20:00] down a discussion, maybe leading us through workbooks. We can do some deeper dives into some stuff to some degree, but the brotherhood in 12 steps is just awesome. It's just a little different.
For example, when I was at the SA Lifeline Conference last year, I remember just standing in the back of the room and just looking at everybody there. And I just had this overwhelming feeling that “These are my people, this is home for me.”
Justin B: I love that. I love that. Where's a shortcoming if that's all I'm going to be doing is going to 12 step rooms for full treatment, the holistic approach to recovery?
Josh Walpole: I argue [that] you have to have individual therapy and 12 step, bare minimum. If you're going to have lasting sobriety, if you're going to step into recovery, if it's going to be a long term, then you have to do those two things. Eventually individual therapy is going to go [00:21:00] away. I mean, you could do it for six months to five years, but eventually that will go away.
The idea of 12 steps is that it doesn't go away. You still continue to attend meetings, still continue to work your 12 steps, which is good. So I guess if you just did 12 step, I think it's a good way to get some understanding. But there's things that are going to come up for you, if you're doing it right. You're going to have some introspection, you're going to realize something like, “Oh man, have I had that trauma in my life or has that been a problem for me?”
Or, as other people share their stories, “Has that been a trigger for me?” So being able to go to therapy and kind of work through that or process through that, or get a bigger understanding is super key. Otherwise we don't really explore it or maybe we don't know how to explore it just on our own.
Justin B: Yeah, and I'm going to share a little bit of a personal situation, just my own [00:22:00] experience, strength and hope on that. When I first revealed to my wife that I struggled with these sexual addictions, with pornography, masturbation, with sexual addiction, one of the things that we tried to do is go to therapy.
And I had a horrible experience with that at first. So it turned me off of therapy big time. I didn't start my recovery for another seven years, eight years after that. I didn't start going to 12 step or really doing anything beyond just trying to clench my fist harder and pray harder and all the other things harder, [things] that just didn't work.
But just about two years ago, so that's probably about six years sober, I recognized that one of my deep character defects is that I manipulate people like crazy. My wife had always said, “Hey, you're trying to manipulate this. You're trying to control the situation here. You're trying to get people to say what you want them to say.”
I'm like, “Well, of course. Because what I want them to say is the [00:23:00] right thing.” But anyways, I realized that it was damaging, not only my wife, my family, my relationships, but myself. I was like, “Man, what am I going to do?” And so I talked to my sponsor and he'd be like, “Eh, I don't know how to help you.”
And I finally decided I needed to go to therapy, get a therapist and talk this through. And I had a much better experience that second time around but like I said, I was totally turned off by therapy.
Justin B: The first experience that I had, and I was like, “Well, that's just a bunch of hooey. It's not going to work for me.”
What is your advice to somebody who maybe has had a bad experience with therapy in the past? And what would your advice to them be to allow them to give it a second chance?
Josh Walpole: So with therapy and with 12 step, I've had some people that I suggest going to 12 step group and they're like, “Yeah, that wasn't for me. I didn't like it.”
And I'm like, “Hey, every 12 step group has kind of a different feel. So don't don't quit. Don't give up. [00:24:00] Go to a couple different other groups to kind of check it out and do some in-person ones if you can. If you're just doing Zoom, there can be a different feel with in-person, if that's a possibility as well.”
So, don't be one and done. Recovery is too important to just give it one shot, and walk away. And then the same thing with therapy. One of the most important things is what's called the therapeutic alliance. There has to be this unconditional positive regard from your therapist. There has to be a connection between you and your therapist.
Josh Walpole: And usually within the first one or two sessions, you'll kind of know, “Are we vibing or not?” type of thing. I mean, it's your therapy, you're paying for it. So you can walk away and go somewhere else.
And you can have damage [done] by therapists too. They can, if they don't align with your core values or if you're there because of a sex addiction and they don't believe in sex addiction, or if you're there because you feel [00:25:00] masturbation is bad and they don't, then that can be problematic as well.
So part of it is doing some homework, trying to get some referrals from people that you may know. And so that's why group therapy or 12 step can be good, getting some referrals. But being able to find what SA Lifeline calls the “qualified therapy” because there's a lot of therapists out there, but you need someone that's qualified. Pornography, sex addiction, betrayal trauma is a special kind of niche or speciality that you have to have somebody that's trained and aware of it. It can't just be a run of the mill person helping you out with this.
Justin B: Thanks for helping with the segue I’m going to go in.
Justin B: I want to read a couple of paragraphs from the SAL book, the “Recovering Individuals, Healing Families” book that we use as one of our resources in SAL and in SA Lifeline.
This comes from page 107 in the “Recovery Puzzle” chapter under the heading of Qualified Therapy. There are a couple of [00:26:00] paragraphs here I want to read and get your take on, your feedback on this and your insights, Josh.
“As we work the 12 steps, we come to see our need for surrender and we are taught a clear process for how to surrender but a qualified therapist plays a critical role in helping us to understand what we need to surrender.
Many effective therapeutic strategies aim to make us more aware of the belief systems and past traumas that impede our spiritual, mental, and emotional growth. Understanding these usually hidden issues facilitates our progress as we work the 12 steps,” and I'm going to read one more paragraph.
“A qualified licensed therapist is best suited to treat the specific issues that pertain to recovering addicts and betrayed partners without inflicting additional trauma. While other resources may offer comfort and support, clergy, life coaches or well-meaning friends and family members typically lack the critical educational background and experience that effective therapy requires.”
So Josh, as I read through [00:27:00] those, what are some of the points that jumped out at you, that you'd like to maybe expound on a little bit and share your own experience with?
Josh Walpole: One thing that I think was missed from my prior therapist before I was married, and again, like I said, he did a really good job and he was helpful and I got some sobriety and had some success under him with kind of reshaping my thoughts and my distorted thinking. What I think was missed though is looking at the root of my addiction, which was mismanaged emotions.
I didn't do emotions well. In fact, I did them terrible. I either ran from them or tried to numb out from them and that's why I went to my addiction. And part of the root of that is shame, rejection, abandonment, some of those big, hard emotions. And that's kind of what caught my attention when I went to Lifestar.
One of the sessions was all about shame. And I'm like, “That's it. That's what I've been struggling with my whole life. Somebody [00:28:00] finally named it, it's shame. That's been the burden on my back.”
Josh Walpole: And so, that was huge. Just that concept of shame and then I don't know how to work through that and 12 step doesn't necessarily help us work through that. It might bring up some shame for us, our story, but yeah, I needed a qualified therapist to help me work through my shame and deal with it in a healthy way. Otherwise it would just bury me and I would go back to acting out when too much shame creeped in. So that was key, that first line you read here in surrender, going to a 12 step group, that's the first time I kind of heard of that concept of surrender.
That wasn't something that was really taught in my faith per se. It wasn't really something that was taught in therapy, but 12 step, that's a huge piece of the puzzle is being able to surrender and practicing that. And like you, I [00:29:00] manipulated. I like to control things. I like to manage outcomes.
And, a lot of that is born out of trauma or fear. And so if I can manage outcomes or manipulate, that helps me to feel a little bit safer and so surrender is starting to let go of that. And again, that's terrifying because it's like, “No, this is how I learned to survive. If you're telling me to let go and that I'll be okay, that's terrifying.”
It's the concept that's in the AA book about the monkeys - where they put food in a jar and they would stick their hand in there and grab it. And then they couldn't get their hand out of the jar. So you have to let go to get your hand out or you're trapped.
So that whole concept of surrender was new to me because of 12 step and so dealing with the shame, dealing with the principle of surrender, those two key principles were huge for me in the beginning. That lit a fire under me because that's what I need.
Justin B: Thank you for [00:30:00] sharing that. You know, one of the things that as I read through this jumped out at me and I want to get your take on it a little bit. “While other sources may offer comfort and support, clergy, life coaches, well meaning friends,” and I'm going to put sponsors in here, for example they “typically lack the critical educational background experience that effective therapy requires.
You know, when I worked with a sponsor through steps four and five, which is I make a detailed inventory of my life and try to find the root causes that led me to feel like it was okay to have these feelings, to take these actions, to have these fears.
And then steps eight and nine, where I plan to make amends and I start making amends, I try to make things right with those that I have caused harm to in my life, a sponsor really helped me identify those things.
But maybe that was more surface level. They helped me identify the actions that happened and the actions I needed to take to try and make them right. But the [00:31:00] emotions maybe get skimmed over.
Justin B: Talk to us a little bit about how working in conjunction with qualified therapy in those steps may help that process. Because honestly, most people who drop out who say, “You know, this is too much,” drop out at steps four and five or eight and nine. And I think there might be something to that. So talk to us [about] how maybe qualified therapy could help in that process.
Josh Walpole: So I had somebody talk to me about this recently about the 12 steps. So they said the first three steps are about connection. So reconnecting to ourself, reconnecting to God, a higher power. Part of the recovery process is redefining all of our relationships.
Because in our addiction, our relationship with ourselves, with our spouse, with God, with money, with sex, all of that kind of becomes distorted. And so [00:32:00] part of the recovery process is kind of reconnecting and re-identifying all of that. And so the concept of those first three steps in connecting is huge.
And I think part of that is doing the work with a sponsor, doing that in group. Kind of coming up with understanding, finding out what maybe some of your resistance is. We talk about firing our old God and hiring a new God, that's kind of part of the process. But I also had some wounding around that, that I had to work through with a therapist.
I couldn't have worked wounding, my God wounding in 12 step, but 12 step helped me to see that or identify that. And then I can take that back to my therapist and say, “Hey, here's some of my wounding around this. How can we work through it? And then he was able to help me kind of shift that.
And then, steps four to nine is about correction. So we need to right our wrongs and change things. And that was hard to do [00:33:00] because I was in a place of blame, right? Everybody else has done wrong to me. They need to make amends to me. I'm a victim. That's where I lived.
And so, working with the sponsor and kind of going through the amends process, doing my step four, doing the moral inventory was all really difficult and hard and a ton of resistance. And yeah, maybe I could have got it done, but facing that resistance and going to my therapist and saying, “This is where I'm at. This is the step I'm working on and I'm having a really hard time with it.”
He could help me again, process through the trauma, kind of be that emotional support to help me identify my needs and be able to kind of work through that. And then steps 10 to 12 are about direction, right? The direction we're heading and so often we feel like, “Well, I've done 1 through 12. I'm golden. You know, I worked all the steps. Now I'm a [00:34:00] sponsor and I can just kind of coast.”
And in the beginning of my recovery, I just kept thinking, “When am I gonna go back to my life or my normal life? When is recovery not gonna be a full-time job?” And thankfully, along the way, I learned yeah, I'm not going back to anything because if I do, I'm going to be in a bad spot. So redefining and changing things and having a new direction. I can't just say, “Yeah, I'm grateful for all of this stuff,” and then go back to who I was. I had to be a changed person and live that way. And so the 12 step, my sponsor, my individual therapist were huge in that. And I needed both of them.
Justin B: Thank you for walking through that. You know, Josh, early on in this conversation, you said a phrase, and I think you said it twice, that really hit me. And I'm trying to see how this can be flipped, and I think I'm seeing it. You said, brace for impact. You said, hey, if I were to go back and tell Josh this thing, I'd say brace [00:35:00] for impact.
And the immediate thought that comes to my mind then is a plane wreck, a train wreck, just a disaster that happens. But, as I've thought about this and as we've talked about the impact of self destruction really, I think I can say brace for the impact that you can have on the world in your circle of influence by going through this and facing up to this.
What are your thoughts on that? Develop that a little bit more if you can, that brace for impact, how it's both seen as a negative [thing] but can be a very positive thing.
Josh Walpole: So in therapy, we talk about reframing, right? If somebody says, “Hey, I'm not good enough,” we say, “Okay, how can you reframe that?” “Well, I'm working on being better.”
And so I like how you kind of did a reframe with the brace for impact because it was a scary thing, but also[00:36:00] it can be turned around to be a positive thing to impact other people with experience, strength and hope and make a change and make a difference.
And part of that, even if I didn't go back to school, if you recover, you don't have to go back to school and become a therapist to make amends or make a difference. But, that was just the way I wanted to go and felt that was appropriate for me. And in doing that I felt the grace of God come in to help me out and to lead me on this path or this adventure.
But to some degree in the back of my mind, I was like, “Well, I still need to satisfy the demands of justice to some degree, all the wrongs that I've done. I want to step into this and right all those wrongs to some degree. And I don't know where I'm at in keeping score, if I've done more rights than wrong.”
I hope that's the case, that I've done more rights than wrong. But, in doing that you can change your life. You can be a different person. [00:37:00] You can have a different relationship with yourself, with God, with your family, with your spouse and kids, and that's whether you stay married or not. You can have a shift, and I was not a super happy camper before. In fact, I thought you can feel happy maybe on your birthday and Christmas morning. But other than that, you're just supposed to be miserable because you're doing terrible things.
So to be able to identify as an addict, but also say that's not my whole life. That's not everything that I'm about. There's goodness in me too. And , even in my acting out there's still goodness in me, but let's work on getting rid of that acting out stuff and magnify the goodness.
And so being able to do that on a micro level, changes my family dynamic. So, my wife and I have four kids. Our first two we call our trauma kids because they were around during the [00:38:00] addiction piece. And then in recovery we had two more kids and they are non-trauma kids.
And so I guess fast forward 20 years from now, we'll find out who turned out good and who turned out bad . But the idea is, they probably would have had a rough life had I stayed in my addiction. And so being able to just heal my family and have a change of impact with them is the best thing. So I can just rest in that and then anything else that I get is just a bonus, it's gravy. And so that's kind of what I'm at with that.
Justin B: Oh, thank you for sharing that. I really liked the perspective you shared on that. And our oldest two are twins and oftentimes we say they're the first pancake. You know when you're making pancakes, the first ones are often burnt on the outside and raw in the middle and whatever else. But gratefully, we are still able to affect them in a [00:39:00] more healthy way than we did in the beginning. It's never too late. There's damage done, there's stuff, but life is long, things can be addressed, and it's never too late.
Justin B: Josh, before we start wrapping up, is there anything else that you really want to hit on that maybe we didn't touch on already that you'd like to bring to the light in regards to qualified therapy?
Josh Walpole: Yeah. Just a couple of things. So one is, SA Lifeline has the recovery puzzle and they have some questions to kind of look through for finding qualified therapy. And so I would definitely look through those, doing your homework when you go and look for a therapist. Like I say, if you can get some good referrals, that's ideal.
And then looking at their website and their bio and seeing what they're about. I know the popular credential is a CSAT, a certified sexual addiction therapist. And then they have different ones for trauma as well. And so those are definitely important because they have a little more specialized training.
I [00:40:00] think a huge foundational piece is, “Is that clinic or is that therapist trauma informed?” Which I think is a huge key piece because there's trauma in addiction. Either there was trauma in your life and it led you to addiction or you're traumatized because of your addiction. And then on the spouse's side, the betrayal trauma piece.
So there has to be some trauma informed therapy there. And so I think that's a key distinction too, is finding out if they're trauma informed. Ultimately the first piece is creating safety and giving choice. So for example, somebody comes in to meet with me and I typically will schedule a session with them at the end of that session, another session. The idea is to give them choice because trauma takes away our choice.
Trauma makes us feel like we're stuck. Trauma makes us feel like there's no other [00:41:00] outcome and we're kind of just stuck in this. Introducing choice can help take away the trauma and the choices may not always be great but as long as you at least have some type of choice.
At the end of the session I say, “Hey, I'd like to reschedule with you, but it's totally up to you. I want you to have the choice of either scheduling online, or you can schedule somebody else if you feel like we didn't vibe.” Or if this feels good then, “We can schedule you, but this is your choice.” And just giving them the empowerment on that and just not assuming or expecting is huge.
And maybe they don't really notice it at the time, but just that feeling of, “Hey, you're in charge, you're in control. Here's some empowerment for you and your choice in kind of how you proceed.” So that trauma informed component, I think, is super key and something that is worth looking for.
The other thing I would recommend or [00:42:00] take a look at too, is therapists. Sometimes it's a rough, thankless job. We have people that we feel like we're doing some good work with, and then they cancel their session and then we never see them again. And we're just like, “Are they okay? How are they doing? What's going on?” Sometimes we hear back from them, but sometimes not and we deal with hard, difficult things each day.
And so I believe it's super key that therapists have to do their own work. So if you are a therapist, you should have your own therapist because otherwise you're harboring too much pent up emotions. One of the key things in the trauma reformed element of therapy is to co-regulate with somebody.
So if you go in and your therapist is dysregulated or freaking out about something, they're really upset or they're really depressed, it's going to be hard to co-regulate with them. Therapists have to do their own [00:43:00] work to get into a good place so that they can be more present and be able to co-regulate with their client.
Justin B: Well, that's a really interesting concept and one that I think is important. I've often wondered, “Man, a therapist gets dumped on all day. Who do they dump on?” So thank you for sharing that. I don't know if that would be an appropriate question to ask a therapist if you go in, “Hey, are you also getting therapy?”
Is that something that you could ask a therapist in that interview process or in that qualification process?
Josh Walpole: Yeah, I don't think that's a bad idea. Like saying, “What are you currently working on?” Because if they were just here winging it, then I mean, some people are okay with that, but we still have our own stuff too. We need to do our own work. Just because we're therapists doesn't mean we have it all figured out. We need help in the process as well.
Justin B: Right. Maybe I'm stereotyping here, but I think a lot of people who get into the field of therapy do it because there was a mess in their past that therapy really helped [00:44:00] them clean up and maybe I'm totally oversimplifying that.
Josh Walpole: Yeah, that's totally true. That's kind of the running joke in graduate school is “We're all here because we have a life we're trying to fix or a family we're trying to fix or relationships we're trying to fix.” So yeah, there's some truth to that and we still need to be doing our own work if we're going to be able to show up to the best of our ability.
Justin B: Thank you for sharing that. So as we wrap up, the final two questions that I'd like to ask you, Josh, are ones that we ask at most of the ends of these Pathway to Recovery podcasts.
Justin B: What experience, strength, and hope do you have to offer that you would like to share with a newcomer into this world of sexual addiction? There are newcomers in the rooms, there are newcomers in therapy.
And what experience, strength and hope would you give to somebody who may be on the path for several years and may be thinking, “Oh, I'm good.”
Josh Walpole: So I guess I would say “brace for impact” for both of them. One for the train wreck to some degree, and then one for, [00:45:00] “Hey, you can turn things around and then you can impact people in a different way.”
So that's the first thing I would probably say, and then for the newcomer, two key tools in helping you in your recovery are awareness and intention. And that's why I think coupling individual therapy with a 12 step group is so key because it helps to bring your awareness up.
Because we're so stuck in our head or so isolated we have no concept of who we are to some degree. Or what our problems are, that I am a manipulator or a controller or even a liar type of thing. And so part of it is we have to have some awareness. As we make the unconscious conscious and we're aware of it, then the next step is that we have to be intentional about what I am going to do. Because sometimes we're made aware of our faults and we're like, “Yeah, I'm not going there. That's too much. That's too hard. That's too scary. I don't know how to do it.”
And so we [00:46:00] run away from it. So being intentional with “Hey, I can continue to show up to group. I can talk to my sponsor. I can go to individual therapy. I can have some help,” and kind of diving into this and kind of exploring a little bit. So keeping that awareness and intention are two key tools.
Moving forward, I would offer the same advice to the long term recovering addict too. Keep that awareness and intention going. It'll shift. It'll change. You'll have more awareness and more intention as you continue in your process in your recovery.
But keep it going. Don't just sit back and relax and say, “Yeah, I've worked my 12 steps,” or “I've gotten to a certain spot. This is the most recovery or sobriety I've had,” and sit back and coast. We can't coast uphill and ultimately life and recovery [are and] uphill battle. So we have to keep pedaling, but it doesn't mean it's [00:47:00] impossibly hard or terrible. I mean, hopefully we were in enough shape by doing our recovery that we can pedal uphill and be okay and be confident and strong enough in that.
Justin B: Thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, your strength, your hope, your wisdom, your knowledge, and what you've got going here. Thanks for taking time out to converse with us. If there's anybody out there that would like to get in contact with you, how can they find you?
Josh Walpole: Lifestar Network is where I work. We recently had a name change. Last year it was called Circles of Grace. And it's in Murray, Utah. So if you go to circlesofgrace.health you can take a look at our clinic and see the workshops and opportunities and the bios of the therapist and everybody that works there.
Justin B: Circles of grace dot health. Okay, perfect. We'll make sure that's in the show notes here. Josh, as we wrap up here, I want to take us out on a similar phrase that we often use [00:48:00] at the end of SAL 12 step meetings. But before I do that, I just want to say, “Everybody, brace for impact. Brace for impact.”
Impact is a good thing either way. It may hurt. Pain is not fun, but what comes after it is, at least for me, I can say, is well worth it. Everybody, keep coming back. It works when I work it. So work it. You are worth it. [00:49:00]