Heal & Grow with Nickie
Join your host, Nickie Kromminga Hill, and her guests on a journey of personal stories and insights into healing and growth from past and current trauma. The focus is on fostering true connections through conversations centered around vulnerability and authenticity. The goal is to collectively heal and find opportunities for growth, promoting a sense of togetherness.
Heal & Grow with Nickie
33. No, No, No, Joe!
On today's episode, I share with you a story of theatre rejection. A familiar story for those of us who work in this business, but a challenge just the same.
In the fall of 2012 I was promised a job in the ensemble of "Joseph..." that never came to fruition. It was devastating to me. Join me as I describe what happened, and what I think should have been done instead.
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Go, go, go, Joe. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh uh. More like no, no, no, joe. Eh, today's episode is all about the time I was not cast in a production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, and how it was devastating at the time and a shot to my spirit. Sound dramatic, huh, it was, but it was a pivotal moment in my life and I really want to share it with you.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Heal and Grow with Nikki. I'm your host, nikki Kraminga Hill. Here we talk about everything Grief, hope, illness, work, family, tragedy, possibilities, fun stuff and not so fun stuff. It's all on the table. Let's take a look at our lives and work to heal and grow together. I'm so glad you're here, hey everyone. I hope you're doing well and having a great week so far. I would love it if you wanted to join my mailing list. I only email you about once a month really Not very often at all, so I added that sign up sheet in the show notes if you'd like to take a look at that.
Speaker 1:Also, I owe a huge apology to my buddy, jeff Mock. Jeff was a guest on last week's episode and if you listened to that, you heard that there was some poor editing going on on my part and I'm sorry. I talked to Jeff about it and he was like it's not a big deal. And then I thought, no, actually it is a big deal and I should go in and fix it right now. And then I thought let's just leave it. Let's just leave it because it was a very real moment. So, anyway, sorry about that. Okay, I want to talk to you today about this Joseph story, and I'm also a little nervous to do it too, which is exactly why I need to tell you this story.
Speaker 1:It is possible and I know that this sounds super dramatic, but if you are at all involved in any theater community anywhere, you will probably understand what I'm about to say by sharing the story with you. It is possible it's not probable, but it's possible that I could be talked about negatively. There is a possibility that I will never work for this particular theater again or other local theaters. I could be labeled a troublemaker. People might say they could say, be careful with Nikki, you might end up on our podcast, but I'm just so tired of protecting people and relationships and organizations that are toxic or that don't protect me or who are just disrespectful to the people that they serve. And if you're not at all involved in a theater community, then you might think I'm a little bit cuckoo for cocoa puffs, and that's okay. It's okay if you think that about me. But just know that there is a slight chance that this podcast is going to get me into a little bit of trouble and I've already thought about that and I've decided that I don't care. I just don't care anymore about getting into trouble. So here we go.
Speaker 1:Let's take a trip back to the fall of 2012. I had just completed a series of four shows I'm pretty sure it was four four shows in a row at a local theater company here in the Twin Cities and Paul and I are about to be married. I had decided to not audition for the next show at this next or the next show at this particular theater company, just because I wanted to enjoy some time with Paul before we got married. We could have a little more time to plan our wedding and just have some time to be together For work. I had a couple of choreography jobs going on and Paul was doing some gigging, but my plan was to audition for the next show at this particular theater, which would have gone up in February. So just in case you're interested in the timeline, the show that I was in closed in the beginning of August. Paul and I were married in September and then if I were to get into the next show at this company, that would start in February and obviously there was no guarantees. I didn't even know what the next show was going to be. There's no guarantees that I'm going to be casting it, but I had a great relationship at this theater and I definitely knew that I had a shot at whatever the next show was going to be. So really I was only going to be out of work for three months, but really not out of work at all, since I had choreography jobs lined up. I'm probably giving you too much information, but that's OK.
Speaker 1:So then, right before our wedding, which was September 3, one of my besties called and said oh my god, this particular theater is going to do another remount of Joseph again, and this was like thrilling, incredible news to me, and here's why I was so thrilled about it. This would be the third time that this company was doing Joseph and I had been cast in the first two. I had already done it once. They had decided to do a remount and they took the entire original cast to remount it and then they were going to take that same cast and remount it again. Now I loved doing this show. It was super fun, it was super quick. It's only an well with intermission. It's a couple of hours. It's a very short show, but it had been so much fun the first two times. This way I didn't have to panic about when my next gig was coming. It's coming in February. It was only going to be a few months to wait. So this was thrilling, fun, amazing news for me and for all of us really. And at our wedding.
Speaker 1:The director was a guest at our wedding and he's telling everyone. He's asking all of us aren't you so excited to do this show again? I mean he's even telling me Nikki, aren't you so excited we're going to get to do it again? It's going to be so much fun again. He says that we do not have to audition, we're just doing it again and we should plan on it, which I mean it's so awesome to not have to audition for a show. This has happened to me a couple of times in my theatrical career where I'm just hired, I don't have to audition, and it's absolutely wonderful. So to say that I was excited to do the show for a third time is an understatement.
Speaker 1:And then something weird happens. They decide that they are going to have auditions. It's not weird that you have to audition for a show. It's only weird because a couple of the people on the artistic staff, including the director, have talked to us and by us I mean me, a whole bunch of people on the cast from before Like, hey, we're doing it again. So to have to audition was sort of like, oh, weird, ok, but we were told no, not a big deal, don't worry about it, it doesn't mean anything, just come in and audition. So I go in and I audition, we all go in and audition and no big deal, it's done. And, of course, you already know where this is going.
Speaker 1:I was not cast. I was one of a handful of people who weren't cast. I know there were three women who had been in it, myself included, who had been in it the first two times, who were not cast. And I'll never forget. I'll never forget that day that I was not cast. It was December 4, 2012.
Speaker 1:And this particular theater and other theaters in the Twin Cities have sort of changed how they reach out to people about casting shows. Thank God, because you used to. At many theaters this particular theater especially you would audition and just not hear anything if you weren't cast. If you weren't cast, you wouldn't hear anything, you wouldn't have a thanks, but no thanks. You just wouldn't know. And so back then, the girls we did like a phone tree, so if someone got a call from the theater saying, hey, yes, you're cast, that person would start telling everyone else hey, calls are going out today. That way, you knew. Well, I didn't get a call today. That means I'm most likely not cast. And so that's what happened.
Speaker 1:I get a call or a text from the same Vesti who told me before that the theater was remounting Joseph, and she just said hey, calls are going out, so stick by your phone. So I did. I stuck by my phone for three hours and I didn't get a call, and that's how I knew I was not cast. I did actually get a Facebook message from another person on the artistic staff at this theater. Oh, somebody wants to say hello. She's saying hello. Why don't I pause for a second and wait till she stops barking? Be right back. Okay, I'm back. So I did get a Facebook message from someone on the artistic staff who is a dear friend of mine and she just said hey, I'm sure you already heard that the calls went out.
Speaker 1:And I'm just really, really sorry, and at the time I was one glad that she reached out, just because then it confirms what I suspected, that I had not been cast. But I was also very confused by that Like that's it, like there's no other explanation as to what changed, or it was just like basically sorry about it. I wasn't just disappointed, I wasn't just upset, I wasn't just angry, I wasn't just confused, I was devastated. I remember talking to Paul about it and I was just like inconsolable and I said I'm going for a walk. And I just like walked out of her house and he said I'm gonna come with you. So I just we started walking around the neighborhood and I just said I don't understand. How can it go from yes, yes, you're being cast cast, yes, you can count on this to like radio silence, nothing, you know, no explanation. And I remember, I remember it's funny now, but at the time it was a very real moment for me Stopping on a corner, literally looking up into the sky and yelling up at God. I know that this is going to make sense one day and I know that one day I'll look at this moment and I will laugh so hard at how dramatic I'm being. But right now I'm really struggling. Can you please help ease this burden?
Speaker 1:What ended up happening, from what I've heard, is that they just laughed at me and what I've heard is that they just decided to go with a different look, which makes sense to me. They decided to go with more of a show girl look and although I can act like a show girl very well, I do not look like a show girl. I'm five two, I'm super curvy and for this particular show they decided they wanted to go in a different direction and hire women that were tall and leggy, and I just don't look like that. Like I'm not even mad about that. I'm not tall and leggy, I'm not going to be tall and leggy. So this decision makes sense to me, but there's just a lot of feelings involved and I'm a feelings person.
Speaker 1:I worked there up until that time. I had probably been in 15, 16 shows. I was very loyal to the organization. I passed up. I passed other work up so that I could stay and not disrupt like the flow of anyone else. I also didn't want to get put on the quote unquote secret black ball list, and let me just talk about that for a second. It is well known at this particular theater and other theaters in town that if you piss somebody off you get put on a list. It's not a literal list, but people remember that you pissed them off and so they say don't hire this person, don't work with this person or at this particular theater it means that nothing is ever really said to you. You just don't get cast anymore.
Speaker 1:And, being someone that's been incredibly loyal to the organization, I was very, very hurt that I wasn't given an explanation, that there was no follow up with me, that there was no, or the other people who weren't cast, especially the other women who weren't cast that also don't look like show girls. It would have been as simple, as I really thought that we were gonna go the same direction, that we went the first two times. I've changed my mind and I'm so sorry that means that you don't have a job. I would have really appreciated that explanation. You know, in every sense I just really have been very, very skeptical of this particular organization and just as in the theater community as a whole, which is really sad.
Speaker 1:I don't wanna be questioning every piece of information that comes my way, but I do, I think. Is that actually true? Are you giving me true, honest information? Or are you just telling me something you think is going to make me happy or make me be quiet or make me not question the system? And I wanna be really transparent here. I know that I didn't sign a contract. No contract was presented to me. I didn't sign a contract and then have that taken away from me, which, for the record, has happened at this organization. That didn't happen for me and if anything, it was sort of a verbal contract, but not really so on one. I don't even really have a leg to stand on in terms of being upset about this because nothing was signed and then taken away from me.
Speaker 1:But I don't think that this was the right way to do business and if I sound better, it's because I am. I am still better about this 11 years later and maybe I need thicker skin and I shouldn't have to have thicker skin. I should be able to trust the people for whom I work and, honestly, this is an issue in almost every organization that I've ever worked, for, theater or otherwise, the people at the top are not honest, they're not transparent. They withhold information in order to protect the employees, but really what it does is damage. It's damaged the employees.
Speaker 1:Now at this particular organization, I don't think that the intention is ever to hurt anyone and I certainly don't think that the intention is to hurt me in particular, but I was hurt and I am hurt, and there are many who might listen to this and say well, that's just how the theater business is, that's just how it is, and although that might be true, that doesn't make it right. Just because something works a certain way doesn't mean that it's okay. We deserve the truth and transparency, in a kind way, with kindness. We deserve to be told the truth. Now, although this doesn't really matter anymore, what I wish would have happened is that nothing was ever said to me at all. Nothing was ever said to me at all about auditioning, in particular, about hey, we're doing it again, you're doing it, plan on it.
Speaker 1:What I wish would have happened is they just would have had auditions like any other show and I would have just not gotten in then, instead of hearing from multiple sources and reliable sources too People on the artistic staff Instead of hearing hey, like your cast, we're doing it. Just don't say anything else. Just don't say anything at all, because it makes sense that you might have a different vision this time than you did last time. That makes total sense. If you're doing the show for the third time, you might want to rework some things and rethink some things and say, hey, maybe we don't want to do it exactly the same as we did it last time. Let's maybe try something new. That makes sense to me. I get that, I understand that, but that is not how the information was presented to me or other people.
Speaker 1:I also wish that the organization would have owned up and just said and I mentioned this before, but I really wish that I would have gotten a phone call, an email, a one-to-one that said hey, we're really sorry for the way that we handled this. We made a mistake in how we did this and it really affected you and some other people, and we're sorry, we made a mistake and we're going to try to do better next time. And there will be people who listen to this who say no one owes you anything, to which I say you're absolutely right. You're right, no one owes me anything. But isn't this just a kinder, better way to do business with people by just saying, hey, we effed up, we're really sorry. I trust people who make mistakes and then own up to them, because making mistakes is human and it's natural and we all do it. But it's people, relationships, organizations who make mistakes and then just pretend like it never happened. That's the part that's really really bothers them to me.
Speaker 1:Now, some great things happened as a result of me not being cast in the show. This is the same time my nonprofit, the spread sunshine game, was born. I ended up getting a middle school teaching job for five years. That never would have happened had I been cast in this show. So that's some good stuff, that's some silver lining, that's some bright side. But I'm not going to go so far as to say that I was grateful that I wasn't cast because all of these other opportunities showed up. It was an incredibly painful experience for me and I'm not grateful for that pain Now, since this happened, I have worked for this theater and maybe I will work there again, but the damage has been done. When you look me in my face, tell me I have a job and then don't give me the job and never speak to me about it again. That is just not okay. That's not something that I should just suck up. That's not something that I should just get used to. That's bad business, whether you're in the theater or otherwise, and I can't do anything about what happened other than to talk about it in a podcast 11 years later. Here are the things that I can do and that I have been doing since then.
Speaker 1:I have a healthy skepticism of information that comes out of this organization and the information that comes out of the theater community in general. I really wish that it wasn't this way, but this community has shown me that I cannot trust it, that I always need to be on my toes, that I always need to be, you know, looking behind my back and that's just the way it is. I said before, that's just the way it is is not a good answer, and that's true. It's not a good answer, and in order for me to survive in this community, I have to watch my back, and I don't like it, but it's something that I need to do. One thing I can do is be sure that I don't treat people poorly and I don't treat people poorly, and when I make a mistake, I own it, and I also have people around me that, when I don't realize I've made a mistake, they come to me and they say hey, nikki, I know this was an intentional, but you made a mistake. I have people that keep me in check. That's something I am grateful for. I can also make sure that my communication is clear and that when I change my mind which I do and I will continue to do because I'm human that I take care of it. I am sometimes in charge of things, and I don't take that for granted, and when I'm in charge of things, I make sure to the best of my ability that everyone is taken care of in a way that works for them.
Speaker 1:I don't know that I'm completely healed from this experience If I was, I wouldn't be so sassy about it, would I? But I have grown from it. I just wanted to share all of that with you today. One, because I'm so tired of keeping secrets keeping secrets so that I don't, so keeping secrets in order to protect establishments that don't protect me. I'm tired of that and I just want to get it out there. I want to get it out there and, to the best of my ability, I understand that there could be consequences from this.
Speaker 1:I know many of you are like this really wasn't that big of a deal. Why are you so freaked out about it? You obviously have not worked at the places that I have worked at, and that's okay. I'm glad you haven't. I do appreciate you listening. I always appreciate you listening, but especially today, and if you've ever had an experience like this, I would really like to talk to you about it, either through email or we could get together, or if we could just share in this and find some community in this, I would really love it. You can reach me at healingrowwithnickypodcastatgmailcom. Nikki's build N-I-C-K-I-E. If you want to chat about this, I would love to talk to you about it. All right, friends, until our next episode. I hope you're doing great and, as always, thank you for healing and growing with me. Bye.
