So...I Almost Died.

In this episode, we discuss Mr. Pick Me spending Spring Break in the hospital (which leads into a long discussion on medical gaslighting, fatphobia and racism in medicine.

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Transcript

0:00

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Mr. Pick Me and the Man Hater, a term lovingly given to us by a troll on the internet. Even though I do not hate men, and Chesco's been picked. Yep. Every time! Every time you do this! I don't know, I don't know what I'm supposed to say after that. Pick Me is defined as Yeah, I guess, I guess That's probably some on me too. Cause I'm so used to starting my podcast. Right. Cause you're good at it. And so it makes sense. It's like, oh, you actually know what you're doing. I think subconsciously you've just taken the entire, the important part of the intro, cause you know, I'm going to screw it up. It's not subconscious. It's 100 percent a conscious decision, because you'd be like, hi, hello, and we're here. It's not, it's not hurtful when like there's data and evidence showing that you're 100 percent accurate. I have the clips. You're, you're just more like, I feel like you're more of an organic starter versus I like things to be. Well, it's kind of like, cause I think, I feel like you need to have some sort of a planned structure for a podcast to an extent. And like my entire page is not planned. Like I don't script anything. I don't, I don't even know what my videos are going to be that day till I wake up and turn on my phone and I'm like, let's see what comes out. Yeah. I don't know what my responses are going to be. People were like, Oh, how long do you take? Thinking of those, uh, that commentary. I'm like, zero first thing that came out, I think of much better things that often way after, after it's published, I'm like, oh, yeah, that was, I could have been way more poignant there. I know that happened where I'm like. Oh, that was a point I should have said. The first comment. Yeah. The first comment is like, Oh, or this. And I'm like, yeah, that's if I had put 10 seconds of thought into this, that would have been clearly the entire focus of what I should, or I should have at least mentioned it. I think I kind of have, it's more out of necessity for me just cause I'm, I'm, you know, working basically another, my, like the amount of classes I teach is the equivalent of, of like a one and a half professors, uh, course load. And so I have to, I know I'm a whole half professor. Yeah. Well, it's because I'm supposed to teach five classes per semester. Okay. And I teach, uh, right now I'm teaching eight per semester. Eight total or eight different classes, eight different classes per semester. And also in my district, so the average around the country, the average, uh, class size, and this is not what our topic is today, but whatever the average class size for, uh, for my particular class that I normally teach is around 24 to 25. That's considered to be like the optimal class size. Um, Mine is, uh, 40 right now and it was 45 for, so I teach eight classes that are double the average size every semester. And, uh, and I'm also trying to do this internet thing. And so if I were to script stuff, I would, I would die. I would have to neglect my family in order to, to do anything. So. We have a video up, but the kids aren't fed. So yeah, I have to accept abject mediocrity online. Whatever. It always goes well. Occasional gold thrown in there. People like stories about how stressed and awkward I am though. So that's, that helps out. That's good. I think if that were me. At least 50 percent of the classes would be a movie. Like, come on in. We're watching The Little Mermaid. Well, that's the problem. I, uh, and this is the, I think the ADHD overcompensating thing of, uh, I constantly just think my classes are terrible, so I'm always doing extra stuff. Uh, and so as a result, even if I do half ass it, it's still a fairly good class. It's still too much. Yeah, even, it's still kind of like, all right, you're, you're, calm it down, uh, Jessica. And so it's, they, they ended up being, you know, I'm pretty happy if, if. What I'm doing on here ever made my classes suffer, I would stop this, right? That's always been my thing. Cause I, I, that's still my, it's shocking. Right. Then that's a priority. What about me? No, I'm just kidding. I know I'd still do the podcast. I would cut out. It's so funny. Cause like, even if I'm tired, my fear of not being good enough supersedes that. So like, even if I'm like, I'm not even going to care about this. I'll do way too much. Yeah. Damn it. Ugh. So, uh, I'm thinking, or you were thinking and you told me and now I'm also thinking we should talk about some things that you went through recently. It was a weird week. So I almost died. You want bad advice, man, I'll give it out. Glad I got some good advice for you. That's some good advice for you. Okay. So what the hell happened? Let's get into it because that's a very, very serious statement. Right? Well, so, uh, last week, so I I've been dealing with this. Illness, random illness this, this whole past year, right, where, uh, all of a sudden I'm allergic to different foods that I've never been allergic to, uh, I'm having like horrible, like heartburn, like painful heartburn, nausea randomly. And I'm, I'm kind of writing it off to like, well, I'm, I'm 42. Now, I guess that's old enough when your body starts rebelling against you. I guess my body shutting down now. Well, and that's kind of what my doctors have told me too. They're like, well, you're getting older. You should try losing some weight. I knew that was going to come up. They freaking love saying that. Every single day. It's like, well, you know, just, just continue. Maybe, maybe if, you know, if you lose a few pounds, then, uh, we'll see if it continues. And, uh, you know, maybe you can give up eating everything you love and, uh, exercise more and, and we'll see what happens. And don't get me wrong. I, I do. I could eat healthier and I am now because of this, I kind of have to, because I'm never going through what I just went through again, or hopefully, knock on wood. Um, but, uh, I think it's not bad advice to eat more vegetables. I got some good advice for you. I got some good advice for you, right? That's, that was not the bad advice. The bad advice was ignoring what I found out to be like textbook symptoms of what I went to the hospital for simply because, uh, I'm, 42 and and uh Moderately overweight. I'm shocked by how often that comes up, particularly for women. I mean, actually it could obviously it comes up for men. I guess men just don't tell me those stories. Maybe I'm not having enough dialogue about like what happened in the doctor's office. Um, but because of what I post, obviously I get into discussions about that, but I am genuinely shocked by how often women who I would say women who aren't even overweight necessarily, but like any curvy, well, like anything that's not like. underweight. They're like, Oh, your hair's falling out and your legs don't work. Have you tried losing weight? Like what? Well, I mean, there there's definitely, I think there's the, it's, you know, you talk about intersectionality of, of oppression and marginalized groups. Like there's definitely fat phobia involved in, in medical medicine. Obviously sexism is obviously there. And it, God forbid you're a overweight woman of color. Right. Then it's, and that's like legitimate, like, or if you have a disability, there's all, all the underlying, uh, isms in our society that, that cause people to have, you know, discrimination against them and, and have harder life, uh, are obviously present everywhere, including medicine. And that's the, the sad reality of it. There are, like, medical professionals practicing right now, who are not old, who are probably, you know, within, I got, I hope, not recently, but like, at least within the, like, past decade, because I talked to a, um, a labor and delivery nurse, uh, who's a, an acquaintance of mine, and she was saying they literally taught That like people of color have a higher pain tolerance and like don't feel or I don't even know if it was that they had a higher pain tolerance but like don't feel pain or something. Yeah one of my students did a speech on that a few years back where it's literally there is a Uh, like it was put into text that that these things weren't and a lot of the reasoning behind it was, and this is where it goes back to why it's structural and not just someone with a bad opinion, uh, is because a lot of the testing they do to find illnesses, to find how different medicines affect you, to find how painkillers work were only tested for On white men, right? And shockingly, those other factors that changed the way we look, that changed the way we, uh, present the change, the, our, our, our, uh, our DNA also affect the way medicine works against us also affect the, you know, the symptoms of different illnesses. Shocking, right? But, uh, I'm shocked because it isn't like, because men are being okay with it, because, and this is why you said you don't hear men talk about it because even with bad health care. At the very least, the textbooks are still written about them. Facts. Right. And so when they see certain, certain key markers, they can at least look it up the, uh, on the textbook. And I know that that is accurate for them. Well, like gynecology, not to dive right into that, let's talk about gynecology. Um, my favorite subject, but that was, this is going to be, I've read about it, but this is not going to be exact, but gynecology, like the practice was On non consenting women of color, like non consenting with no anesthesia. And the term woman became because they wanted to have a term because when they were like, what, what is it? There's like a, the, the text, like the original, original gynecological text or whatever, was this guy, when he wrote it, he wanted a term. That separated white women from females, meaning black women, to make it like, okay, what he did some, like, they're, but they're not women. It is, it is horrifying. I remember hearing about it. I don't, I don't know. You know, I can't speak off off memory the stuff, but if anybody listening to this wants to research it, it'll ruin it. It is absolutely it's stuff. It's this kind of stuff you'd read about. And it's a dystopian, uh, novel. Right. About something that's good. You wouldn't believe it's real. And then, and that's, and that stuff is present in once again, shockingly all throughout our society with most things. So just maybe not shockingly, not shocking. So, uh, Dr. James Marion Sims, the father of modern gynecology. Beginning in 1844, performed experiments on enslaved women in Alabama. That's where it came from. Uh, you can look it up, we don't need to talk about it here necessarily, but I, I, I would be remissed if we didn't. Bring that up because basically a lot of like what we know and like medical in the medical field is based off of prioritizing and focusing on white men while simultaneously like using Women of I mean literally built off women of color gynecology. Yeah, and it's like yeah, I think probably because They, you didn't give them access to medication. You know what I mean? When, when it's like, Oh, they're tougher. It's like, um, was it offered? Do you think, Oh my God, that made me, I mean, I, I understand that. Well, I guess I don't understand. I try to understand how privileged I am, but that one. Once I found that out, I did a ton of research on that and it's like, whoa, and that's, that's just gynecology. Like I'm sure if you dive into any field anyways, so point being gaslighting, everybody like gaslighting and, and no people aren't being taken seriously due to their race Or their abilities or their weight. Like it's, it's fucking crazy. Well, and so that's what, and so, so I started talking about this online and that's what people are talking about. Like what they're, so now men are also, it's just, everybody doesn't, doesn't matter who it is. So, um, so I guess back to not to, sorry, sorry, sorry. I don't know how to translate. We can do the entire episode on that, but. Um, so on the, the, the major, so I was talking about the whole year it was going on and kind of being written off. Um, and then, uh, this, what is it, like a week and a half ago, like the first day of my kids' spring break. And by the way, we're, we, were gonna go to Legoland. Oh no, we were. And I was like, gonna catch up on my grading. It was gonna be this, this great week. But so the first day of spring break, I'm like, let's celebrate, let's order some donuts. And I noticed I didn't really feel like a donut. And so I saw on the menu red flag right there. Yeah, right there. They had a breakfast empanada and so I was like, Oh, I'll try a breakfast empanada from, uh, I'm not going to say the name of it cause this turned, ended up not being the case, but so I eat it. It didn't taste that great. Whatever. Three hours later, I'm in the bathroom. What I think is food poisoning. We don't have to go into more detail than that. And I'm like, Oh, of course. Cause yeah, yeah. You don't, you, everyone understands what I'm saying. Uh, and so I'm thinking it's food poisoning. I'm like, Oh, great. It's also my youngest fourth birthday party that afternoon. Uh, and so, Oh, Chesco. But here's the, the, there's a positive, there's a little positive bubble right here. Okay. Is that after like, like three or four hours of me thinking it's the worst day in the world, all of a sudden I feel good. Like for about, I literally, I'm like, Oh, okay. I'm healed. I must've spent, and I'm Googling online and I'm like, Oh, food poisoning can pass about three hours. Sometimes the best case scenario. I was like, Oh, I must've got lucky. So I go to my daughter's party and then it was, and it was fine. I wasn't hungry. I didn't want to eat anything, but I was able to be there and be present and help out and set stuff up and take stuff down. And so it ended up, thank goodness for that. Anyways, I'm not going to go into details of the entire week, but, uh, but it keeps getting is that the next day it comes back up again, like that evening. I start getting nauseous again. I'm like, Oh man. Okay. Uh, and the next day I'm, I'm just, I'm still, I can't eat anything. I'm so nauseous. I'm just, uh, feeling terrible. Uh, and I'm still trying to function and live, but I, you know, I keep on taking like long two, three hour naps. Cause I'm just feeling so miserable and it's getting worse and worse. And finally on day four, I haven't, you know, I haven't eaten in a little over three days at that point. Yeah. My wife is like, please go to urgent care and just please just have them. Yeah. Have them tell you you're okay. Yeah. So I'm like, all right, fine. So I go to urgent care and uh, she's, she's checking me out and she's like, well, uh, and, and you said, you and I mentioned that what I ate and I thought it was food poison. I shouldn't have said anything. I think that's, uh, I kind of put that in her mind. She was, oh, okay. So we have an answer to this. We know what this is. And she was like, are you sure? Do you have any pain? She's like touching on my, my belly. Uh, and I didn't have any pain there. And she was like, okay, so it's probably not your gallbladder. Uh, and I was like, okay, it must just be food poisoning. And so she gives me some nausea medicine. The one time the doctor listens to you one time, you're like, yeah, I think it's, she's like case closed. Thank God you're a doctor. Thank God you're a medical professional. A very, I was very confident that it was food poisoning. I guess that's what happened. Yeah. So she, she gives me the nausea medicine and it's not really helping that much. It helps enough where I'm not like horribly miserable, but it's, I'm still really nauseous and still in a lot of pain. Yeah. Uh, and so the next day, uh, happens and I, and I, and I'm still feeling pretty bad, but then the next day, all right, this is day, I still haven't eaten by the way, since the previous Saturday, this is on a Thursday, I guess, uh, and, uh, I start feeling pretty good. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, so this, I must have, I must be on the men. So I get up to record a video. I haven't posted a video online. I probably should. And I record it and, uh, about kind of my, my experience in urgent care. Cause people were being jerks to the nurses. They're always like, it was basically this whole thing. Like be, be nice to our healthcare workers. You know, even though we just talked about how doctors can, you know, misdiagnose and all those kind of things. It doesn't mean you have to be like, it's not usually the nurses. Yeah. No. And so just be nice to people. Um, and so as I'm editing it, I'm looking at it. I'm like, that's my eyes look a little yellow. Oh no. And I was like, am I? It's not my, and I'm trying to like convince myself that I'm like, that can't be your gaslighting yourself. You're like, I'm not yellow right now. That's not, I'm not, I'm not, my eyes can't be yellow. Right. And so I, I go downstairs to my wife and I'm like, are my eyes yellow? And she was like, she was like, let's look. And she goes, she was like, they're yellow. And I was like, like a very pale yellow. I was like, okay, bye. I'm gonna go to urgent care. So I immediately, I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm going to urgent care right away. That's not it. Cause I know. Yeah. And I'll say I come from a long line. I don't drink very really at all. Um, and because I come from a long line of alcoholics, like my, my grandfather died of cirrhosis of the liver. My father died from like drug and alcohol addiction. Uh, and so I'm very familiar with like yellow eyes as a result of like a liver. Uh, and so that's literally triggering. I'm using that term correctly when I see that. Yes. Yes. Because I'm, yeah, I've done so much in my life to avoid that happening to me that I'm like, Oh my God, what? This can't be happening. Yeah. So I go to the hospital and the nurses look at my eyes and I've had bad allergies. She was like, well, I know your eyes are a little distressed. Uh, it looks like it might just be allergies. Causing this and I'm like, oh, okay, the yellow and my eyeballs is allergies. Sure. So I'm like, okay, but I mean, I mean, can we, can we like check it? And so she's like, oh yeah, yeah, no, no, we'll do a blood test and urine, but you're, you're probably fine. I was like, okay. So we do the blood and urine test. Uh, and, uh, the next morning she calls me up and she's like, okay, so you have a very high elevated level of bile in your system. Um, I want, I want you to go to the ER immediately. I already told him you're coming. And and at this point I woke up the next day and my skin was starting to yellow too. Uh, and so I'm like, okay. I'm like trying not to panic, but I go to the emergency room and, uh, they're doing the test and they're checking me out and they're like, Oh yeah, there's something, something's wrong. Right? We don't, we don't know what it is yet. And so, uh, the, uh, the doctor comes to my, my, uh, room and then we're going to do a CT scan to check it out. And nothing shows up. They wanted to see what they, because he assumed immediately that I was having gallstones, um, the, uh, and so, uh, there was something down there with that that was causing the bile to back up and kind of a system, uh, and he, and, but they do a CT scan and nothing shows up. And he said, that doesn't mean you don't have stones. He was like, but there's, there's three likely options here. Uh, and this is what I'm given in the emergency room. He says, you could have. gallstones or something with your gallbladder. You could have liver disease or it could be a mass on your pancreas. So I'm sitting there thinking, I know like how bad those second two were, especially that one. Yeah. And I'm obviously like, I'm seeing my life flash before my eyes. I'm like, Oh my God. This could be and he's like, so we're gonna we're gonna transfer you to uh, the the main hospital and get you a room And we're gonna do an mri and all this guy. So i'm like, holy crap Okay, so i'm still like i'm, you know fingers crossed i'm thinking let's hope for the best Let's that's when I do the mri. They're like a lot of times stones don't show up on the cts So he's comforting me and saying so so when the mri, uh, that'll show what what's going on and so They do, I go upstairs, uh, do the MRI and, uh, and then it's nighttime at this point and they're like, Oh, so the doctor will talk to you in the morning. So all night long, I don't have any results. Yeah. So the morning. Yeah, the morning comes doctor says to me, uh, all right. So there's, there's no stones on, on your, uh, on your chart. And I'm like, or in the MRI. And I'm like, what, what is that? So what is that? And he's like, well, there is, there is something, there's something in your gallbladder, like in the The duct of your gallbladder, like it's like bulging. Um, so we do think there's a blockage there or it could be something applying pressure to it, like a mass. And I'm like, uh, he was like, we can't see though from the, from the scan. So we're going to have to do an exploratory surgery to look. And so I'm, uh, and he tells me this right before they're taking me down to surgery, like, like 10 minutes. So I like, I'm texting my, you know, my wife, I love you so much. I love blah, blah, blah. I'm texting. And I'm like, Oh my God, I literally wrote on like, I'm a, I'm in a group with some friends of mine and I was like, Hey, will you, I'm like, I'm going to tear up, like, but, but I was like, Hey, will you guys make sure to start like a GoFundMe for my kids? It's like, So I'm like, I'm freaking out. I was like, I don't know what's going on. You're poor anxiety. Yeah. And obviously I'm, I'm already a, like I, I over, uh, what's the term? A hypochondriac, like literally when it comes to everything and I'm thinking, this has got, this is it. Doesn't matter. This is, this is what happens. So they take me down to the, um, surgery and this is, thank God for this surgeon. Okay, this surgeon is, as far as I'm concerned, is my favorite person in this world. So, so we're, I'm laying on the, on the table before we got out. He was like, I just want, he was like, he was like, what do you, what are you feeling? Cause he could see my eyes were like, kind of like red from like, I was like, well, I'm a little scared. This is what the guy said. He was like, he was like, I want to, I want to let you know, he was like, I can't tell you anything for certain based on, on what I'm seeing right now. Right. Based on what he's saying. He was like, however. I can tell you that based on your symptoms, I've been searching for a long time. And based on your symptoms, if you had a mass large enough that was pro causing pressure to do this, we would've seen it. I, we, it was, we would almost certainly have seen it, uh, on this. He goes, I don't think it's that. Uh, he was like, I, he was, I can't guarantee, I wanna be very clear. I'm not telling you, it's not that. He was like, I just, I would be very surprised if it was that. And, and I, I just don't think that's what we're looking for. And so. That that immediately at least helped me out because nobody had said that I that's all I wanted to hear right right It's not their job. I know they have to be realistic I know they have to you know, I probably for insurance purposes and stuff A lot of times they can't like it, you know, they don't want to lead you astray, but I'm, uh, i'm like, okay so I mean there's some people have a bedside manner and some people don't because i've been delivered scary news by someone who was like Kind of compassionate and like kind and then other people were like, well, you might be dying. So we'll go check that out. Like there's makes a difference. Because the other doctor when I talked to him, I was like, because he says that whole, that very, very matter of fact, it could be a master as well. And we'll do a biopsy and we'll check it out. And I was like, well, what else? Like, what is that? And I'm like stumbling over my word. What is, what is, what is Does that mean, can you expand on that? Like, well, you know, and he's like, you could, you know, sometimes pancreatic cancer sometimes, uh, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Oh my God. And he's being honest. Like he's being, he's like this stuff. It now, does it typically happen in a 42 year old male? That is, you know, that doesn't have any other signs and a history of these things. No, like when I'm going to reach it, reaching, it would have been a very big stretch for, for my current symptoms with the current scans they had anyways. Yeah. So the surgery happens. Yeah. And, uh, I wake up obviously on cloud nine cause I'm, uh, I'm drugged up on anesthesia. Uh, and, but in the best thing in the world. So the second I wake up, the first sentence from the nurse says, uh, she says, so it w it was a blockage in your bile duct from, there were some stones in there. And I'm like, and that I heard exact and I literally, I'm like crying, like sitting there, I'm drunk, smiling and drugged up and crying. And I'm like, this is you all are amazing. I'm like, I play. It's so fun. I wish I had recording, uh, of what happened there. But, um, but obviously it's like the best freaking news in the world. And I'm like, can I, is it, can somebody get my phone? Can I call in there? Cause my, my phone's in my room. And so the nurse gives me her phone so I can call my wife and, uh, the good news. And so they do the, the, here's the weird thing though. They said normally, and this is from the words of the surgeon is that they normally when they go in. To clear a, a blockage, your gallbladder looks like a bag of marbles because there's so many stones in there. Normally, that's what leads up to you. But my gallbladder was completely empty. That's why nothing was showing up on the scans. It was really kind of a weird flu. He said it's extremely rare. Right. Or for what my situation was. And so they're not even sure, long story short, we don't have to go too far into this now, but they're not even sure they're going to, they don't think they're going to remove my gallbladder at all, which is normal standard protocol for something like this, because they don't exactly know what happened. It looks like there might've just been a fluke, something got stuck, like one, like a stone, cause everyone produces certain fragments. And he said, it didn't even look like it was one large gallstone. It was just like fragments of stones. That were kind of just stuck together there. So it, as of now, it looks like it was just this random fluke of an instance that caused me to turn into a minion. Uh, and so you're just lucky that way, I guess they all came together to ruin your life for a second. Yeah, it is. It is going to change my life forever though. Cause they still said, just in case I denude, I need to change everything about my diet. I need to have very strict everything. And it's, uh, you know, I'm trying to look at it and for the best in the Uh, you know, I, I could have always eaten healthier. I'd been slowly kind of transitioning, although I did joke. I don't know if you know, Andy does healthy, uh, online. Uh, she's a, uh, dietitian, registered dietitian. She kind of combats a lot of misinformation. Uh, she's great. She's wonderful. But she's I met with her about about a year ago, uh, to, uh, to talk about like eating healthier and stuff and she can and she's very anti like macros and anti doing she's she's all about like doing all the good way of eating healthy, right? This is like sustainable, sustainable kind of lifestyle changes and it's a very. Uh, and I, I laughingly said to her, I was like, well, uh, you know, after a year plus of trying to transition my life and, and I was, obviously I was doing things on a, on my own time. Now I have to download one of those like fitness apps and, and log every single nutrient, exactly how it is. Maybe forever. So that's, that was my week. Should I, should I be, uh, presenting all my, my entire medical history to, uh, thousands of people? I mean, you weren't like when I was four years old, right? Right. I guess I'm not given to, uh, I don't know what somebody can't steal my identity by knowing I had a blocked tube in my goblet. I don't think so. I think you're in the clear, buddy. Yeah. I, I mean, I also think it's important to like, human beings and things happen to us. And I think it's important to like, be real about that. Um, because I think sometimes people like. Even if they have like a parasocial relationship with them. Like I think people sometimes forget that like, you know, real shit happens to people who are personalities, I guess. Um, but also I think everybody that follows you probably genuinely cares about your health and wellbeing. So it's like good to give people updates. So I'm glad you are talking about it. I feel like people notice when there's like a change, but not everybody's like, when you like, there's people I follow, like I can tell something's up with them. Like, You don't know what, but you're like, Oh, you're energy different. Or, and hopefully I won't get, yeah. Cause I've lost, uh, I lost 14 pounds over the past. Yeah. So it was, it was, oh, so hopefully people won't be like, you look good. What diet are you? I've had that, like I've learned it. Cause sometimes people will tell me they lost weight and I'm always like, On purpose, you know, like did you want to and then if they say then sometimes be like, oh, that's awesome Because it's like you have no idea why people lost weight Like some people some people get healthier by gaining weight, you know, like So I hate that because there's been so many people who are like got sick and then be like, oh my god You're glowing. You look great. And they're like I almost die Yeah, like well, I I lost a ton of weight in my early 20s Uh when I was like, you know going to the gym 10 You Times a week and dancing and all and, uh, and once again, I got more compliments during that time than ever mind. I was so unhealthy. I was, I, you know, I was not because I was actually eating crap. I was, I was broke. So my diet considered a top ramen ramen. Yeah, you know, it's my sodium levels. I somehow made of salt. Yeah, I was literally just like, you know, my, my blood's slowly crawling through my body. Um, but you know, I'm eating unhealthy. I'm drinking. I was drinking a ton at the time, you know, and I, and I, but I'm, I've looked nice on the outside. And that's all that counts. Yeah. I remember at one point what my mom said to me, I was like 24 at this point. And she was like, are you, she was like, are you using? She thought I was like, cause you know, I come from a, well, to be fair, I mentioned a second ago. We have a strong family history and extended family history of users. And so she was, she was kind of like genuinely works. I looked sallow and it was because I was unhealthy, but everyone, but that's what is, that's what looks great. That's so like, that pisses me off. So not that specifically, but like. There's just this idea of like, skinny is healthy. Right. And that's so often not the case. Just like having more weight on you, like, that it's unhealthy. And that's also not always the case. Like, it's just so bizarro to me to like, there are people who like are living with eating disorders. And like, everyone's like, you're, you're the, you're the picture of health. Right. It's like, you don't know. Sorry, this, this is a tangent, but like, that's fine. You don't know. That's what we do. I know. That's all we do. Uh, you don't know what someone's going through when you look at them. You don't know if they're healthy or unhealthy. Like people will just see a photo, we'll see someone in passing and like, oh, they're healthy, or, oh, they're unhealthy. It's like, actually you don't know shit about them and you really shouldn't be commenting on it. I just saw some, uh, I don't remember who the creator was'cause I never remember. Um, yeah. But there's this woman, uh, who was like. jogging or walking outside and a somebody from a car was like, get it girl. You'll be slim and fit soon. I'm like, did you like the caption was like, you can't, like, I just can't live. Everyone's got something to say. You have to. Yeah. Well, I had a doctor, uh, once she told me my goal weight. And you'll see why this is so, even more so, she's like, you should be go, like your goal weight. I probably should be around one 90 and I wouldn't be, and as a six foot five man, what? Yeah. Uh, my, when I, that story I just told when I was like sallow and like sunken in where I was 235 pounds at that point when I was like. Unhealthy skinny. That's scary. And I told her that I was like, I would, I would die like that if I was dead. Yeah. And I told her and she was like, well, I, you know, that's the, the, you know, according to BMI and Bubba, I'm like, that's not right. I switched doctors literally that I went home and switched doctors. Do you have a peer that you don't like? I'll go with him. Yeah. You have someone you wouldn't recommend. You trust doctor, you trust institutions. And there are a lot of great, a doctor saved, like literally saved my life. It wasn't for those doctors doing that procedure. I would not be here right now. Sure. Sure. Sure. Um, you know, but they're, but the, you know, they're, they're that, you know, you hear about the ones that are doing, and even good doctors can give bad advice. Good people can give bad advices that are above all the normal caveats. Yeah. Um, but how many people though would hear that and think, okay, well, I guess my goal is now to get down to 190 pounds, uh, and would make yourself seriously sick to get there, right? How many, uh, both men and women, but especially women are, are pressured into getting to these horror, like my mom is another great, my mom is overweight. She's always been overweight. Uh, and, and she does, but she doesn't have. Bad, uh, health issues from a, from a weight perspective. Like her, the health issues she has now are an age thing. Like they're, they've come from other things, but they're always shocked. Like they're, that she doesn't have any, like, she's not pre diabetic. She's not, uh, you know, she has good blood pressure. Her cholesterol is not high. And they're always like, wow, that doesn't make any. I had uh, Sarah Spicer on here. She did my theme song on my other podcast, right? Um, she's So crazy talented. Um, she actually lost weight I think because of gallbladder issue But at one point she was like by her own admission. This is not me revealing anything Um, she was like scary skinny. She was burning off more calories than she was eating By by working out like a psycho like every day because her label made her and she said she was just Absolutely adored and given so many compliments and she was like I was very ill I was Like I can't imagine what her body had to feel like to be I mean, I'm hypoglycemic. If I did that, I'd probably keel over, but literally where she was like, yeah, I was burning more than I was eating. I'm like, um, which is crazy. But like even just a This is kind of a segue, but like when I got diagnosed with PMDD, which is premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Um, I which By the way, it's very serious, because like, I had like, suicidal ideation, even though I wasn't suicidal, my brain told me I was. Thank God I have bipolar, because I'm used to being like, quiet. That's not real. Wait, you, you I know, well, you do get that way, like as a Yeah. Even with anxiety, like you'll have an Um. And you just go, oh, shut up. That's not real. Yeah. Um, so I knew it wasn't real, but I thought it was mood related, but it was really bad. And I had, it was like debilitating cramps. It was like, it was a whole situation. It was really, really bad. Um, and I went in and finally I was like, Hey, like I'm having all these symptoms. And she was like, are you, are you anti birth control? Which I was like, at this point, just give it to me. I don't even care anymore. Like drug, like, because it was so bad. And I was like, I think I have PMDD, which again, is very serious. And she's like, yeah, I think so. And I was like, were you gonna tell me? Yeah. Like, were you? Say anything because it's it's a big deal. It's not it's like the week before your period like it's is a nightmare It's like horrible mood swings depression Like low energy like all this these like really weird symptoms That are like I've just now started getting it under control, but I was debilitated for a while and she was just like yeah Yeah, God, what if I hadn't asked like what if I had not said? And I'm not gonna, like, it's not my job to, you know, release my wife's medical information, but like, there were, there were several things, like, not that, but like, other things, once again, where I'm researching, she's researching, and the only reason she got help was because we had to, like, diagnose ourselves, or diagnose her, yeah. And I, I, you know, I'm not saying diagnose yourself, but like, no, no, but, but to bring it to the doctor, your own research and bring it to the doctor. Yeah. Cause a lot of people do. I don't want to be, cause people get, get on you about that, but of course. Yeah. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. I have this. We're not going down that route. We're not like anyone listening. Don't freak out. We're saying, we're not saying you should, yeah. Research your symptoms. Look it up. Because that's what I did. I brought it because I had every symptom that I could find and she was just so kind of calm and relaxed and I'm like, yeah, I have suicidal thoughts. And, um, yeah, she was just very like, okay, yeah, maybe it's like, this is ruining my life right now. Like, I don't, and then she, like I had, I was on a lower dose. Uh, of birth control. And now I like, I'm on it all the time. So I don't have a cycle at all. And she did, she started with a really low dose and I, I was, I was, I guess you have to maybe do that, but it like didn't work. And then I got on higher dose and I was like, cause I asked her, cause my counselor was like, most of the people that I see that have PMDD will stop their cycle. Cause it, if you have a mood disorder and you have PMDD, it's really dangerous. Um, So much information. Uh, but she was just, she was just like, yeah, we can do that. And I'm like, why, what, why is it me and my counselor, like me researching my counselor? Like, were you going to offer that solution up? Because it, like, it has such. Substantially helped because now that it, because it's like the, the, um, surges of hormones that like this at the start, right. That really caused the problem. And she had a solution of sapping it, which maybe she was being like conservative, um, because birth control does other stuff to you. That's not great. But I was just like, Um, I told you the same things I told my therapist. My therapist was like, I, you should try the year round one. And she's like, Oh yeah, we could do that. OPMDD maybe. I'm like, why am I the one bearing the burden of like this stuff? Ugh. Well, you see it probably even more pervasively with anything like that, where it's like, it's, it's invisible, you know, where it's not as obvious, like even with something as far less serious, like my ADHD, right? I'm 37. I was 37 when I got diagnosed. And it was only because I'm like, seeing all these things online. I'm like, this is, this is everybody, right? It's just like, everybody does this. And it's like, no, No, everyone doesn't do this. And so I finally, I was like, well, can I get, can I, you know, cause obviously the school system had let me, cause I was smart. And so, and so I finally meet with a doctor and normally people like, you know, there's a whole process to get diagnosed with ADHD. Uh, he gave me like, he asked me like questions for like five minutes. And he was like, I'm going to just stop right here. We can go like, we, we can, like, we can do more, but you are like, you're a rate. I can't remember exactly his term, but he was like, you are, there's no question. I've been doing this for a long time and you are one of the most like severely ADHD people I've ever met. What'd you say? I wasn't paying attention. I, I'm lucky because I had the hyperactive. I still do, as you can hear and you can see, uh, so like, if I didn't have that, I probably would have gone undiagnosed, but they were like, Oh no, this child, this child needs something. I'm technically combined, but I'm more inattentive, uh, with mine. And so, and inattentive is less common with, with. Boy, I don't know if it's just because they don't diagnose it with boys. Uh, probably or less. They, like girls can line Yeah, yeah. Attention. Um, and so that's, uh, and that's exactly where it was. And then it's so funny. There's like, and, and then once you, once you get the diagnosis, it's not, and everyone's always like, people always treat diagnosis like they're bad things, but there's no it's answers, it's it's tools. Right? And you find all these. Things you thought were these weird, quirky things about you, you have in common with literally every single other person that, yeah, not everyone, obviously. But, uh, yeah. And so my, cause my wife is, it has ADHD and she was diagnosed, but she's hyperactive like yourself. And so ours presents so differently. That in my mind, I was, okay, I don't have it because I'm nothing. I'm we're like each other. I don't have, but that is, yeah, I don't, that's not me. And I don't have that. So clearly I don't. And then you learn about it and you learn about the spectrum of ADHD and combine and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But. It's a tool, you know, it changes everything. I loved getting diagnosed. I did it several times. I actually, I just can't stop getting something. So I got diagnosed. Like a preteen as bipolar, but I was on the cusp of when they were allowing teens to be diagnosed as bipolar because before me, only adults were getting diagnosed, which is a big deal because depression is part of bipolar, right? So, um, they would give them depression meds and I don't know if you know this, but when someone's bipolar, if they're given a depression med, um, they can go off the rails. Like instantly. Yeah. I don't think. Uh, crash, like whatever, which happened to me later when a doctor, here's a fun gaslighting doctor thing, I went to a psychiatrist, and I had been diagnosed as bipolar for like years. And he was just like, mm, no. You suck. You're, you're just a shit. Basically, he diagnosed me as like being depressed with an attitude. Instead of bipolar. He's like, nah, you're depressed with attitude. Oh my god. So he, he changed all of my medication and then I went manic and crashed and I was like, thanks, buddy. He also looked like the Mad Hatter. So it was very frightening. He did not like me and he told my mom, Yeah, he was like, nah, she's just kind of a jerk, which I was never like me. I don't know what that meant. I don't know what I said in there that he's like, yeah, he's just an asshole, I guess. Um, but that happened to me once where the doctor's just like, nah, no, let's not do that. I'm going to make this brief, but I also had a doctor almost kill me one time. When I, I'll make this really brief, but it was a saga. Basically, this is no joke. Speaking of yellow skin, uh, jaundice as it were. So I had a doctor here who was like, One of the top in the area. Okay, like very whatever. Um, I'm gonna make jokes on it because it's uncomfortable. Yeah. Um, yeah, no, that's fine. Stop it. This is how we deal with trauma. We are a serious podcast. Yeah, as you put out, I almost died. We do not joke about serious. This is how I deal with my trauma. Leave me alone. Yes. Okay. It's very healthy. Uh, so I was it was in high school and I like was Um, I, so you can like kind of edge on mania for a while. This is going to be a little, a little, uh, bipolar spiel, a little bipolar, uh, info. Um, but you can kind of, without going to the point where like you're crashing, right. So she couldn't like figure it out how to. Uh, curb it, I guess. So she made the absolutely logical decision to drug the ever living shit out of me. She, shout out to all my Seroquel friends. So Seroquel is a bipolar med, but it's like, knocks you out. It's like, it's like a tranquilizer. It's like, because here's the fun fact, Chesco. If you're too drugged to function, you don't have symptoms. So cure it solves her problem. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck me, I guess. But so, so she, she starts drugging the everloving shit out of me. I was on lithium also. So there's two drugs. She was over medicating me with not even just one. Lithium you have to check your blood levels because it's toxic. It's it's literally like kind of like a poison. Like you can't kill someone with lithium. Yeah. You have to get your blood taken like every whatever amount of weeks. Um, and at the level I was at, it should have been regular, regularly, um, regular, regularly, regularly. It's still in my system. Technically it is, but it's different dose. Yeah. Um, which is also scary. Anywho, I remember one time, like I was so drugged by, like I was. Passing out all the time like falling asleep like standing. I fell asleep in her office Like I had a coffee cup and I was drinking it and I couldn't hold it up because I was so drugged And then she let me drive to school. What? Yeah, that's it. That's yep. Mm hmm. That's all my favorites about her Literally, she took it out of my hands, because God forbid I spilled coffee on her carpet. And then she's like, see ya, go jump on that highway. Like literally, she knew I was driving. I don't have any jokes to rescue, it's like, oh my God. The joke's on me, Jesco. That's the joke. Yeah, oh my God. So, so then, so, so it's bad. So I could tell you so many more stories about that, but, so I gained like 40 pounds. I was like in high school, like I was like 16, 17. Um, and I start, and like none of my teachers told my parents, which was really like, I went from a straight A student to like falling asleep all the time and they're like, this is fine. She's just tired. Puberty. It's a, is she getting her period now? It's her period. I bet. Um, it's anxiety. Right. And I I'm such, I'm such anxiety. I'm such like a loud, fun, you know, like I'm a, I have a big personality and I just went zombie. Uh, no, I mean like literal zombie. Like I was like the walking dead, like truly. And I couldn't think straight. I couldn't like. Like I couldn't articulate how I, I couldn't like do anything creative. I'm like, I, I write, I do music. None of that. Um, I did some theater, but that, that was, it was a struggle. Um, so finally, like I started noticing like. My skin was yellow and my eyes to the exactly what you're talking about. It was like yellow. Like I have photos where I literally have yellow skin, like yellow, yellow. Um, and so my mom was like, Oh, I know this doctor keeps it. Cause she was saying over and over, this is how it has to be basically. Um, Once I, and you want to trust your doctor, you know, it's like you want, you want a solution. You don't know what to do at this point. You're like, okay, well, this is somebody that I have been told institutionally that I should be trusting without question. Cause they're trained, they have expertise and, and for a lot of things that's true, but like, you know, you have to have a healthy distrust of certain things. I know of my own as well. Some of which we've said, you can just tell something's off. Right. And I think when you feel that feeling, it's healthy to follow up. And obviously back then we didn't have as much access to, you know, I'm, I was in the hospital reading, you know, published, uh, peer reviewed journals on like, I'm actually going through like actual research databases trying to find information. I couldn't have done that when I was 16 in high school in the, in the nineties. And I was so drugged that like, I couldn't like. Articulate. Like, I'm dying. Uh, so finally, I go to a new psychiatrist, and I'm in her office for like two, like, I swear to God, under five minutes. And she like, was like, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Is this how she is all the time? Because some people, they take a medication, and it kicks in, and then they'll kind of even it out. Yeah. Um, and my mom was like, yeah, and she's like, we need to go to the hospital. She needs to get blood drawn immediately. And guess what? I was lithium toxic. Wow. So it wasn't even the Seroquel, the thing making me sleepy. It wasn't even that so when wow my liver was shutting down. That's why I was turning yellow Wow So so that so that we got a new doctor and then it took me Probably a year like to you know to heal my liver. My stomach was Destroyed from medication. I used to get sick all the time. Um, then my brain wasn't working So I had to get that back because of cognitively, I was so overmedicated. That was like, right, right. I dropped out of school, went back into school and then I was, uh, and then again, was it straight A's and, you know, continued that path. Like, did you guys like, Hey teachers, did you guys notice a dramatic shift? Well, we just noticed you weren't, you weren't like interrupting us talking anymore. So we figured it was kind of, that's the thing. It's like, literally it's that I was less, Probably less annoying, I guess, but that shit is, oh yeah, I, I ran into her, like, I didn't talk to her, but I passed her at a grocery store like years later. And I, I went into fight or flight when I fucking saw that lady. I bet. I was like, I should have decked her, you know what I mean? Because we didn't even, she never got any repercussions for that because we were so freaked. We were like, oh, trying not to die, so. Well, that's, I, I mentioned when I, when I posted about this online, one of my friends who was dealing with some other, her own health issues, says, do you have any advice on how I can get my doctor to listen to me? And I said, and I jokingly responded because that's, What we do. I was like, well, it helped that I was, you know, completely yellow walking in. And then another person responded. She was like, I'd show up completely yellow. And my doctor would be like, have you tried just going for a walk for your anxiety? It's probably losing weight. Have you tried losing some weight? Have you tried? Uh, and it's true though. What some people are doing is like making the doctor put on the record. Like on the file, like I have requested this be checked out and you are refusing to check that out. And that has worked for people. Yeah. That literally happened to me. This is about five years ago now. Another, once again, being ignored, I kept on complaining that I had, uh, I was having some issues breathing and, uh, and I have asthma. Very mild asthma. I use my inhaler like once a year, like almost never. Um, and that, but, and the problem is I have, for whatever reason, you know, some things are genetic. I have a huge lung capacity. Right. And so they, when I, I know my asthma is so bad. Yeah. No, but so, and so I go in there and so they give me, you know, they, they test your lung capacity. And so I'm complaining, I can tell I'm not breathing normal, but they, I do the little thing and it, goes off. It's like off the charts. Like, well, it can't be your lungs. Uh, and I'm like, okay, it is. And so I keep on, but I'm like, I'm just, I'm like, you know, every night I'm going to bed. Like, like, I feel like I can't get a deep breath. And so I'm getting enough oxygen. I'm a lot, my blood oxygen was fine. Cause I have such a big, but I'm, I just feel like I can't fill up. My lungs. And so finally I, I literally saw a meme that talked about exactly what you said. And so I go in again and they said, well, no, you're, you're looking for, I was like, okay, can you put on my chart that you don't think I need an x ray or like, uh, uh, to get my lungs checked? Yes. And they're like, ah, you know what? Let's just do it just to be safe. Actually, maybe we will. I had walking pneumonia for a month. Uh, and that's the only reason, the only reason they got it. And I got antibiotics for it. Was because I did that exact thing you're talking about. It works. There is a thing about it. And like, like even when my wife, um, like when she did her whole pregnancy, I was like, so aggressive, like to make sure she was taken care of. And like, I had everything lined out and like to make sure what she wanted was happening, uh, because there are horror stories of like, You know stuff happening in the hospital, you know that women didn't don't like or don't want and like but that's where I really learned Like how much and it took it not being about me Like because I used to I had a hundred percent trust. It's not that I distrust doctors But I like blindly trusted them like they could have said anything and i'm like, okay right because To me it like triggers the like Authority people pleasing like, Oh yeah, you know more than me. I'll do what you say. Right. Like be a good, my dad's also a dentist. I think like, I have this like ingrained, like, be a good patient. But I totally understand that thing though. When it's like someone you care, cause I know once again, we'll keep this trauma light, but when we, we went, we had a horrible tragedy a few years back and, uh, we couldn't, they weren't, I was like, can they, we couldn't get someone to like a mental health professional to like, you know, Talk to us, either of us. Um, and it happened at the hospital. Like they were aware of it. And so I'm like, and I could, my wife was, it was real. I was really worried. Like I could, I was like, this is not you. Like I'm, I was so terrified. And so I'm like calling, I'm going to the hospital calling to the point where they like finally called her to make sure that she was safe and that I wasn't like trying to get access to her medical. Cause I'm like, I keep calling. That's why they call. Yeah. Then they're worried. So finally at that point, because they called her about me, they're like, someone's trying, your husband looks like he's trying to meddle with your medical record. Uh, and it's basically because I keep calling, like, can somebody fucking call my wife and ask her if she's okay? She needs some help. Um, I have insurance. Like why, why can't we get this? And so, um, and not, not to mention, and finally that happens. It took me six months. Take it like six months for them to call me for me to mask over the phone and then for them to say, okay, well, it doesn't sound like you need anything. We'll move on. Right. So, so mental health is even worse than I never even got to see a therapist for that whole situation because I sounded so good over a five minute phone call. Um, that's what we do. We're professional bullshitter people pleasers. Yeah. We can, I guarantee you, you and I could both experience a very traumatic event and take a phone call and be like, Hey, how's it going? Hey, girlie. What do you do? How are you? And you'd be like, Hi. I'll tell you what though. I used to at least be honest about my mental health. When I became a parent, I started lying. about it. Like, I literally would just not be honest. Like, people would be like, how are you doing? And I would be having the worst fucking day. Like, well, Jess, especially with the newborn phase, you know, when you're just like not sleeping, you'd be like, how are you? And I would be literally like, Hadn't showered in days. Yeah. Flyaways fly in, like covered in vomit, you know, just like discussing and be like, you know, I'm like, what the hell? That's the pressure. Especially with parenting, I think especially you get that, uh, that pressure to, to be perfect. Yes. Uh, and because, and every time I talk about that online, I'll get a pinch of people like, what are you talking about? Everyone only talks about how terrible parenting is. I'm like, no, uh, no. That's, it's not, that's not, its. The real that's online, right? That's the onlineness of this is different than the real world, where if you don't, if the second you don't present yourself as perfect and everything, you are less than, and even then I, anytime I've shared a story about struggles with being a parent, the amount of people that will comment saying, well, you shouldn't have had kids. Uh, I don't want to hear your, you know, what you're talking about. You're just, you're clearly not doing enough and all those other, yeah, yada, yada, yada that goes into it. And so. It's it's this weird thing where you do hear some of the hard aspects of being a parent. Yeah Um, and and it's like well you chose to be a parent It's like that. I I there's lots of things that I love that are also very hard, right? I love being a parent. I absolutely love being a parent It's still fucking hard and most of the hard things are because of society. Yes. It was also it's like this There's few spaces you can be totally honest. Like I'm not, I wouldn't be unloading that the hardships of parenting, like at my daughters are amongst the moms because it's like, you don't want to look bad. Um, I mean, I, I think now I would, but especially when I was a new parent or like on the playground, like, right. You know, you want to make friends, but, but there is such a stigma if you talk about it. And again, like, I feel like it's, it does, it's made to be a reflection of your parenting or you feel like it's a reflection of your parenting. Um, but it's just interesting. Like that was the first time that I was very, cause I've, I've always like, you know, I I'm people, please. Like, that's just the way of the, like, I I've hid my emotions. It's certainly in like times of like, Like, I don't want, I don't want to burden anyone right now. Um, but, yeah, when I became a parent, I was like, really, really locked it up, except on my page where I would make content about it. But, like, inter, like, interpersonally in my actual life, I'd be like, I'm just gonna be, I'm just gonna be miserable, I think. Also, that's how I went undiagnosed with PMDD for so long. I thought a lot of my symptoms were just, I was like, this is fine. Like this is just parenting and it wasn't so Yeah, I I guess my point is like because there's got to be a point to this right? It's like advocating for yourself Advocating like what you're feeling if someone's giving answers that aren't lining up, um, and you're not getting relief, like, it's important to, and even then, like, maybe people don't listen, but like, I mean, I've gotten different doctors, but like, the more that I've learned to advocate for myself, the better results I've gotten, because you can't just assume they're going to do what they're supposed to. And apparently not even if you're a man anymore. And now the men are getting it? Apparently Man, apparently I am the real victim all along. Now that I'm seeing negative consequences. Don't you feel so bad for me? I do feel bad. Now things will change. Jesco's been harmed by this. Change everything. A man has received differential treatment? No, no, no. We need to rehaul the entire medical system. Oh, man. You laugh cause that's it, but it is honestly, if it gets to the point where more men are being harmed, that will be the thing that triggers systemic change because they're not going, it doesn't matter that literally, You can't even put a number on it. Countless women. And that's the wild thing. So I posted about this and it's been the most commented video I think I've ever had. I think within like, yeah, the first like 2000 views, there were like a thousand comments on it. And it's just All women telling me, yep, this is what happened. Here's what happened. Here's what happened. Here's what happened of them just being gaslit by their medical professional. But that's just ignore it. It's like almost just starting to be talked about a little bit more. Uh, With it. And even though it's been obviously happening for as long as we've been alive, obviously longer than that, I feel like maybe white people are talking about it more because I definitely think people of color and particularly women of color have been like, Hey, it's a good example though. It's like, you know, when you, when you ignore. What's being done to more marginalized groups. Eventually it seeps out. It's not, it's like when you see, uh, there was a video, once again, we're both so bad at this. I don't remember who it was. Uh, but it was, it was a, a gay creator that was talking about how this responded to this video of these two gay men that were like saying they support. J. K. Rowling and her transphobia. Uh, and he was like, you know, they, the, the same monster that is, that she is a part of that is eating trans people will eat you too, that will eventually, it's all going to come, you know, eventually. And this, this is another example, just because what's not harming me, it's just harming them. Then all of a sudden, Oh, now it's this, now it's this other group. Oh, now it's this other group. Now it's this other group. It harms us all. Right. And that's, and that's why it's important to speak out. Not just when it, right. But when it when you see harm, that's when you should speak up, not just when your life is inconvenienced. I'm shocking, shocking. I've always been so deeply disturbed by like the fact that So many people on this planet will not empathize at all unless you relate it to them. Like, like all the guys who are absolute misogynists. And then you're like, imagine if this was your mom, but imagine if this is your daughter. And they're like, Oh my God. And now I care about women, like, but it's not even empathy because it's about them. Yeah. Like it's not that they're, they're not empathizing with anything. They're literally just thinking of, Oh, if this affected me. And even then, most of them still won't change until it, like something really extreme happens. Yeah. Oh yeah. And it has to literally happen to them. They can see their daughter experiencing systemic, you know, sexism against them. And it's still, well, that's just, that's what life is. That's it. Boys will be boys. And yeah, it's not until it's a horrible, you know, we don't need to go into that. It's real specific tragedy that you can't then all of a sudden like, why didn't, I can't believe I didn't think of see this earlier. Even though it was white in front of my eyes. It's like, if you, if you have to literally make it about you, then you have an empathy problem. Cause I was thinking about the other day, there's so many times I've done that in conversations with men or even like was talking about race issues. Like imagine if you, you know, and it's like, We shouldn't have to do that. That's so weird. Like we're basically saying, uh, obviously you can't have empathy. So what if it impacted you? And we, we act like that's totally fine. And like a reasonable way of communicating. It's like, no, that's kind of a big deal that like, I have to literally make it about you for you to care. That's like, yeah, that's a, that's rough. Cause I used to do, I used to do that with guys all the time and then be really like pat myself on the back and be like, Oh, I really got through to him now that it's about him. He really saw my side. It's like the fact that I had to do that is really rough. That's not good. That's not good for you. And that lasts for all of 20 minutes until they go hang out with their friends. And all of a sudden that like that bitch, yeah, there was that whole conversation about, and this is the whole nother episode title we could do. We're not going to get into this, but about like, can men be friends with women? Right. And like, Yeah, but you can judge people by who their, their friend, I think it's fair to judge people by who their friend groups are. A hundred percent. You should do that. Yeah, that, that says a lot about what they're willing to put up with, what they're willing to listen to when the camera's not on, right? When they're not in a public setting. I, if I, if anybody takes anything from this, actually there's tons of stuff to take from this episode, but here's something also important. Okay. If you're like, you know, he's great, but his friends are assholes. He's great, but his friends are misogynists or he's, he's the nice one. Like, but his friends are whatever, any type of anything that's negative. Like I hate to break it to you, but he's also those things when you're not around. Like that is the secret at the very least. It's not a deal breaker and that's a problem. Like, I, I, I cannot tell you how many guys I was around, but it could be any gender. It could be any person. Um, but for me, a lot of times it was guys, uh, that I was around that I was like, God, his friends are so awful. And like, they're so mature and they say stupid jokes, but he's the good one. And I'm like, no, you idiot. You, he must be such a good influence on, on them. It's good that he, he must be hanging out with them because he wants to change them. Like literally the second I walked out the door, I guarantee he was like, Oh, Stupid, stupid, dumb woman. Anyways. Oh God. It's like, yes. Judge people by who they're around a hundred percent. That's who they're like, that means whatever behavior you're seeing is not a deal breaker to them and like Even there are situations where people have had friend groups for 20 years But it's like it's still going unchecked and that's still a problem even if there's something say that the rare case where they actually don't agree with the thing that their friends are doing like It's not a deal breaker. Right. It's not enough to like, cause like, I never saw it. Go check. That's not like they said something. And then my boyfriend's like, Hey, say that that's, that's really not cool. Only, only not in front of, not in front of you guys. Dare you do that? See her. I literally had one time where this guy was dating who was just a garbage person. He was very, very mean. He bullied me into dating him, literally. Um, anywho, that's a story for a different time. But they would literally like joke about things that were like personal information about me. In front of me and I'd be like, I feel like you're saying things behind my back or something And he's like, I don't know where you came up with that. He's like, that would never do that That's why why are you crazy? Why are you insane right now plot twist everybody? He was talking massive shit Yes, of course shocking right shocking shocking future reagan to to knowing that this was I look back and i'm like you idiot I mean, they were literally talking about like like things I had done and I was like That's weird. They weren't there for that story. Judge people by the friend groups. I will absolutely, I will. It's funny too. Cause in college, cause I've never had, like, I actually have two, my two best friends in the world are two guys that have very similar worldviews that I do now that I, that I managed to, to meet over the years. Um, but over for most of my life, people have always been, don't you have like boys, do you hang out with them? Like, no, cause every time I do, there's always at least a couple of them that are fucking horrible. And I'm like, oh, well, I don't. One, that's not what I want in my life. I'd rather, I'm happy just hanging out with other people. Like I, I don't need them. You know, if I have one or two good friends that are like, that I know are not going to say something one day, that's going to make me question our entire reality, that I'm, I'm okay with that. And, and the other thing is like, whatever you see from the boys, or even if it's, it could be, they could be being sexist, racist, homophobic, whatever, um, whatever you see is a 10th. Of the real, because I remember, I've talked about this, I think before, but I worked at an agency and like, when I started there, I don't think I was out yet. And then by the time I was full time, I was out with my wife, like out, out. And I've said this, like some men like don't get lesbians. They're like, Oh, you must hate women. Like we hate the misogynists. I mean, not, not the good ones. The good guys. Like it made no difference. They're like, Oh, cool. I also like women. So. Cool. Um, it's the opposite. We have that in common. The misogynists are like, oh, you also hate women. Anyways. I'm like, uh, what? Do you hate women? There's a point where you're like, I think you hate women and like men. Uh, I don't know what's going on. I'm a lesbian because I like women. Do you not understand? I like them very much. I love women in general as a whole. Um, but anyways, like, I started being privy to conversations and I was like, What like like the same dudes so like I had seen them and then all of a sudden I don't know why there's that she's one of the boys. I guess I have no and they it was you know I would call them out. So they, they stopped doing that cause it wasn't fun. But, um, they would just like say shit about their wives wanting to cheat on their wife. Like that was what was taught. And then I found out a majority of them were cheating on their wives, which I didn't know that at the time. Um, so also if you hear a guy making a lot of cheating jokes, They're not jokes a lot of the time. They're also super worried about cheating. Yes! Super, yeah. Projecting. There's a reason that's on their mind a little bit. Not always. Yeah. They just have some really insecure attachment kind of issues. But it's usually, like literally, Every guy I know that it's like a really good guy and his relationship is never saying that shit is literally, they don't bring it up. It doesn't. And I did not even know it was such a big deal in the, like the dating community until I got online and was watching, seeing these videos. I have never, well, first of all, I've never been cheated on. And I've never worried about being cheated on because, and, and, and like we've, I think we've said this like, and I don't know that I think it was on your podcast a while back, like good people can still be cheated on. Right. That's not the same. Good, a good guy. And, or a good woman, whoever, whatever, good, any gender people can be cheated on. Right. That, that is not saying that, but it's not something that is just this, if it is a constant theme in your life where you're having Worry about it. There's something else going on there. The guys who talk about it, I feel like just don't date women. Like, I just don't. Right. They're like, when always cheating. I'm like, I don't think so, are they? Yeah. Well, who are you? Yeah. Who are you? Da Like, are, were you date, or you know, here, this is just something that came to you. Maybe they weren't dating them, maybe they just liked them and they just started dating other guys and Right. It's like, I don't think you were dating her. I think you liked her from afar. like, yep. Yeah, I don't, yeah, that was a, that was a big, that was a big eye opener was when I was like, oh, this is how, and do you ever, I don't know if you've had this happen. I, but like, I had like guys who kind of treated me like work wife. Have you heard like work life and work has been, I've heard, I've heard, I've never, like, I've never been an experience with, uh, with that, like the whole work wife thing. I've heard of the idea. I don't know if I've mentally obviously, and academia is a very. male profession. And so I do think it's probably not, although the people I do hang out with at my, like any of my previous universities or colleges, I've taught it. I've been other female professors. Yeah. Yeah. I guess those have been my work wise. Yeah. It's just this harem of work wives, meaning my friends, because you can't just say, this is my friend. You have to gender it and turn it into this weird pseudo romantic thing. Like instead of just saying, Oh, this is my friend, professor, You know, Reagan, no, this is my work wife. Perfect. Cause we are, cause we hang out and have lunch because she's not a dude. Cause did they call a guy that they're really close with and hang out with their work? Husband. Hey, this is Greg. He's my work, husband, work, husband. No, it's only because they can't fathom the idea of a friendship with a woman. And so it has to be their work, right? Here's the thing though, is that like, One guy called me his work wife, which I was like, because he, he and I did not like, I have chemistry with a lot of people. For sure. For sure. Yeah. But like, but like, even he and I didn't even have, like, we didn't like banter. We were like bros, like bro bros. Right. Like I have guy friends that it's very like bro ish versus like. Like I, you know, I can banter with people, but I, I know, I know certain guys that like it. It is, it's a weird, not that I'm close with, but I've seen guys do this where they find out, you're like, if you're a lesbian, yes. But all of a sudden they're like, man, you're a man. You're a man. I talked to you like a man Yeah. That you are literally, it's so that whole bro ness, because in their mind that's, I feel like it's like this there a way for them to try to convince themselves not to be attracted to you. Yes. Because you are, you're a dude, you're a guy, or you're off limits, even though. Non consenting is off limits. Someone doesn't like you should be but like that, you know, honestly unless as long as you're not being misogynist Bro, like I don't mind that because then I'm like if you're not flirting with me, that's that's good for me That's what it takes if that yeah, that's what it takes But he that guy who called me Ended up being absolute trash, was a predator. So I was like, Oh, well, that's probably why he called me his work wife. Cause he's a fucking weirdo. Um, but also another guy, I, this always, I just, it just makes me laugh. I remember we were working together and he was like, he kind of treated me like that. Like, um, because a lot of men are not joking. Like when they say that they're having inappropriate relationships with women, especially emotionally, um, even if they're not pushing it past it. And like the red flag is if they talk shit on their partner, um, That's when you know, okay, this is going a weird direction. That's always how I know if anyone talks, like particularly men, but like anybody's talking shit on their partner to me in like a leading kind of way. Right. Is the difference between like, Oh, we're really close. I'm struggling. Can we, can we, I trust you. Can we talk about this? Versus God, my wife did this again. And I'm like, Oh yeah, let's talk about this. But I remember the guy looked me dead in the face and was like, God, He was, I was with my, I don't think we were engaged yet, but we were together and he was engaged. Uh, he's like, God, if you weren't gay, we would literally be a perfect match. And I was like, wrong on all counts, my guy, you were someone I would have dated in high school probably. But Oh, it was so, I, I literally like looked at him and I was like, Oh, we're not friends anymore. Like, Sayonara. And I stopped being his friend. Like, we were not close after that. When guys are joking around about that kind of stuff, or anybody, It's like pushing, it's like pushing boundaries. They're pushing boundaries with you. Just be careful, cause sometimes they're not joking. Like, I thought the jokes, I thought the guys, I thought it was shitty. I thought they're being misogynist, joking about like cheating and stuff or, or, or talking about their wives negatively. A lot of times it was like my boss, which I'm like, okay, this is, I can't really push back too much up here. Yeah. Um, but it was like, it ended up not being jokes. It ended up being very real. So. Well, speaking of cheating, we're going to be cheating Naya papaya comes That was a good transition, right? Was that, was that? You nailed that. I was like, where are we going? But yes, a hundred percent. So next episode is going to be a nice little, little, little change up, change of pace. Uh, Nya Papaya is now doctor. Doctor Nya Papaya. Serious business. We'll have to ask her if she wants to go by her, like what name we should introduce her by and not just her TikTok. Dr. Papaya. Dr. Papaya. She has a real name. She has a real name. I just don't know if she uses it on socials. I don't either. That's why I asked. Yeah. But yeah, her content is amazing. She has a lot of feminist content backed by research and data, even though that doesn't mean anything to the people who are arguing with her. Uh, but that'll be amazing. And make sure to check out our social stuff, which we have an Instagram and a YouTube. Mm hmm. Instagram is updated frequently. That's the one I'm really focusing on making sure right now. So that, that one I have control over and we have a merch store that is linked in our Little show notes. Ooh. With three things. We're, we're getting there. We're doing our best. We have a lot going on. You know this. We do. I almost died. Oh God. Well, thank you for listening everyone. Make sure to check out all of our links and things you can click underneath this episode. And, um, we will see you and be joined by Dr. Nya Papaya next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.