Episode#9_Ayrton Wooley
[00:00:00] Wayne: I'm Wayne Carey, and this is The Truth Hurts.
[00:00:06] Ayrton: Well, welcome to Episode 9 of The Truth Hurts. I'm Ettin Woolley alongside the King, Wayne Carey. A bonus episode for you. Today, we're going to explore your footy journey a little bit more in depth, Wayne, and there is a milestone coming up that sort of puts this into context.
[00:00:20] Ayrton: Do you want to explain that for us? My journey?
[00:00:22] Wayne: We're going to talk about the Players Association's journey, but they happen to be a very similar age. So, uh, I turned 52 in, uh, four or five days. So six days, actually. I should know that, shouldn't I? On Saturday, so 52, and the Players Association are turning 50.
[00:00:40] Wayne: And it's been a, it's been a weird and wild journey for the Players Association because at the start, they, well, they weren't really even an association. And I know the people back then will, will, uh, will argue, but I guess everything has to start somewhere. But, uh, skipping right through to when I first [00:01:00] played a game in 1989, I reckon there would have been under half of the players in the comp, remembering it wasn't a national comp.
[00:01:07] Wayne: We're talking VFL back then. So very, very different, but under half, there were even whole clubs, I think North Melbourne might have been a club that wasn't even involved in the association. So um, yeah, it's a long way from where it is right now. Yeah,
[00:01:23] Ayrton: absolutely. So back then, 89, you make your debut, um, you wouldn't have had any management at that stage.
[00:01:30] Ayrton: I'd imagine a lot of the players would have been working. full time jobs. Did you have to do any work at that stage? Do you remember your first contract and what that was worth? Uh, could you sustain yourself on what you're earning back in, in 89?
[00:01:43] Wayne: No, not the way I was spending as a 16 year old. Um, but it was, yeah, probably about 15, 000, 20, 000.
[00:01:51] Wayne: Although, you know, as a 16 year old, that's, yeah, that's a lot. I was getting paid. So you get paid match payments for an under 19 game, but you've got a retainer. [00:02:00] Um, I also had a. A clause in there that if I got my license, they'd buy me a cheap, a cheap car. Which, you know, which is awesome because there's no way I would've been able to afford a car.
[00:02:11] Wayne: Um, they bought John Longway, a brand new Commodore and a brand new boat . I just got a vb VB Commodore, which was, uh, you know, not the see the golden child back then, horse was it? Oh yeah. Horse, horse got the kit kitchen sink thrown at him. Um, whereas we were, we were, you know, we were the ones that, you know, just got all the.
[00:02:28] Wayne: Got all the scraps. But it was very, yeah, a lot of players did have jobs. I worked as a clerk. I also worked at a company called Sansa McDougall, um, D& T Lighting, Eagle Lighting. So these are all the little jobs that I had. None of them lasted too long. Um, but it was 1990 when I played my first full year. So Wayne Schimelbusch gets the job in 1990.
[00:02:54] Wayne: Um, A guy that I live with called Stephen Hamilton, him and I, neither of us had a job. [00:03:00] And Wayne Chimelbush said, everyone has to have a job. He thought that it was healthy for everyone to be working and, and playing footy. So remember, we're talking 1990. And I remember saying to Bomber and the club, well, you, can you help us find a job?
[00:03:14] Wayne: So they found us a job in Footscray. As wool classes as what wool classes now, we had no idea what a bull class it was. I, I straight away thought, Oh, we're going to be sitting there looking through wool and, you know, saying whether it's good wool or bad wool, you would have been good at that and wooly, um, but I, yeah, so we had no idea what to expect.
[00:03:41] Wayne: And we walked in for the job the first day and the supervisor came up and he just looked at us. I think we were playing, we were both in the seniors, playing senior footy. And he gave us these two big hooks, like, like Captain Hook of whatever show that, what's, what's [00:04:00] Captain Hook? Peter Pan. Peter Pan, yep.
[00:04:02] Wayne: Put the, put, grabbed the hook and he said, I want you to move those bales of wool from point A to point B. And those bales of wool were bigger than, you know, they were probably, Six, six high and you know, probably six foot wide, they were big and you just put the hook in, put them on a trolley and then move them, move them around.
[00:04:19] Wayne: And I looked at Bomber and he looked at me and I said, is this bloke serious? We've got a game of footy to play in a couple of days or a day or whatever it was. So I walk, we walk straight over, Bomber, Bomber was a bit of a sheep, pardon the pun. So I walked straight over, put the hook in the bale, just went.
[00:04:39] Wayne: One straight in the top and walked out the door left, left, walked out. So how long do you last? No, that was me. Oh, and bomber, the sheep, sheep, sheep, sheep, sheepy bummer followed me. Walked out. And the supervisor rings the club, says, Hey, you two, uh, you two workers that you sent down here, [00:05:00] they've just walked out, they're gone.
[00:05:02] Wayne: So Wayne Chimblebush, uh, dropped Bommer and myself. So we got dropped, and I'll never forget it, because it was the, uh, first time. That I'd been dropped under obviously Wayne Schimelbush and the last time that I ever got dropped so I got dropped once once in my whole career and that was it and We walked out the club, you know, obviously not not happy at all as well as being dropped and I went back and played we played against Essendon at Windy Hill I think that was the last time or the last year that you played at Windy Hill So I play reserves.
[00:05:38] Wayne: I think I took 22 marks and Bommer, Bommer cracked the sads and he didn't play well at all. I got back in the next week and like I said, I've never, never played reserve grade footy from that point on. Um, Bommer went home. He could never, he could never, he could never understand and he's one of my best mates and still is.
[00:05:57] Wayne: But he could never understand how you could get dropped [00:06:00] for, you know, not having a job when we're there to play football. So he played four games that year before that, that happened and never played again. Got two Brownlow votes in his second game. Um, he was a, he was a serious, he had Darren Jarman type ability.
[00:06:16] Wayne: My mate Bomber, Stephen Hamilton is his full name. So he. Took it the wrong way, I took it the right way, I got back in the next week. Um, Um, I did my shoulder the next year. And, uh, Bomber played in a premiership for the North Adelaide Roosters. And I, I was very, very... Um, jealous that he'd gone back and played in a premiership.
[00:06:36] Wayne: I'd done my shoulder and we weren't going that well at the time. And I remember thinking we, we both wanted to go back to Adelaide after it had happened. I just took it a little bit better than what he did. And North allowed him to go back and they made me. Um, stick by my contract. So I stayed. So very thankful that that happened, but that was also around the time then that, um, I think it was 92 that [00:07:00] Ricky Nixon, uh, was starting to manage.
[00:07:03] Wayne: So you didn't have a manager pre Ricky? No, I didn't have a manager. My brother. Um, Dick, he was my manager, fair to say, not his, one of his great strengths. I've, as I said, the money wasn't huge, but I would have, I would have spent the money of that year and half the money the year after, and then we'd go in and renegotiate and say, well, can you just start again, take that off there.
[00:07:25] Ayrton: So you had no need for, the Players Association at that time was not big like it is now in terms of supporting the players is it? Young players now before they're even drafted for instance will go and have various chats about how they're going to set their lives up. football. That's none of that. None
[00:07:43] Wayne: of that.
[00:07:44] Wayne: None of that. So Ricky Nixon, as I said, other players in the, in the league had managers and you hear about, you know, Peter Jess was a big one, obviously Greg Williams, and you heard about these superstars of the comp at that time that did. And I guess. So they were the sort of players back then that were on that [00:08:00] magical 100, 000, around 100, 000, that's what you heard.
[00:08:03] Wayne: That was the, that was the number that everyone wanted then. If you could, if you could earn 100, 000, that was the holy grail. Now it's obviously a million dollars, but that was the holy grail back then. And it was then that I got asked to do a, A, uh, a modeling,
[00:08:20] Ayrton: we might post this over the top actually, a calendar, has to be seen to be believed.
[00:08:24] Wayne: A calendar, and uh, I was asked to do it, so I was lying on a diving board and Ricky Nixon was there, I don't know, he might have organised a couple of the other players, Tony Modra and, you know, all the glamour boys, so, um, and I, I got the cover, I, yeah, so I got an extra bonus, you're still pretty proud of it I can tell, I got the bonus, I think I got 2, 000 extra.
[00:08:48] Wayne: Because of making, making the cover. So I was very happy given that when you think about it, the, the footy contract was only about 20 grand then. So we're not talking big money. So the [00:09:00] two grand for making the cover was huge. And Ricky went to my brother and said, look, I think, you know, we should not sure whether he thought I had a modeling career or football career, but certainly not modeling.
[00:09:10] Wayne: But he, he, Yeah, he convinced my brother to give him a shot at being manager. And, uh, that's, that's when that relationship started. And he went on then to, um, create club 10.
[00:09:24] Ayrton: Changed the game, didn't he? With you guys. And we touched on it previously, but it was.
[00:09:28] Wayne: Oh, Tony, Tony Lockett, uh, Dunstall, Modra, Jakovic, Lyon, uh, the list goes on and on.
[00:09:36] Wayne: I mean, the, the, the absolute best players in the comp were a part of KUDA, were a best part of this. Then the AFL came out, and this is where Ned Kelly got his start, and they started, uh, A rebel, well not a rebel, we were the rebels. They started their own AFL club 10 style, um, set up with some real B graders.
[00:09:55] Wayne: No, I'm, they were all good players as well, but club 10 and where it started. But what that [00:10:00] did is it put pressure on the AFL. So that's where the AFL and Ned, you know, started working together and those players and they did their own little group. And did what they did. But it was when you could start to get deals outside of, you know, outside of your own club and be sponsored by, as we've discussed before with Nike and other things.
[00:10:18] Wayne: So that's, that was the real start of it. And that's when the players, then the players association just started to get a little bit more momentum. And then it became a little bit more apparent that they wanted, they wanted a hundred percent. I didn't want 70% of the players. I wanted every player to be a part of the players association and to be a strong union.
[00:10:39] Wayne: I think you need that. If you will, it's certainly, if you don't have a hundred, you need 90 plus to, to make it a really strong union. And, and they started to get that. And then you remember, uh, Andrew Dimitrio, um, he was the head of executive before he was at the AFL. Correct. So what a great stepping stone, um, that, you know, he had.
[00:10:59] Wayne: Uh, [00:11:00] and, and he was, uh, huge in obviously building that into something a little bit more powerful and had a real voice against, so started to stand up. And this is when you knew that the Players Association was just starting to... You're realising
[00:11:13] Ayrton: your power you had as, as a, as a collective. As a collective.
[00:11:16] Ayrton: Maybe seeing overseas that we'd had different organisations with lockouts and the players were refusing to play and you, you could actually have an impact if you were united as a,
[00:11:24] Wayne: as a group. Yep. And there was talk about strikes and different things at different times during that. I do remember that one of the big things for me was the car parking.
[00:11:35] Wayne: I couldn't believe, I couldn't believe that, you know, we had directors at North Melbourne and we had, um, you know, even not, not so much, even Dennis Pagan parked in the car. Like, so the coaches all parked, we parked in the car park and then you had, uh, directors and sponsors parking under the MCG. When
[00:11:53] Ayrton: you say the car park, so you just mean the grassed area?
[00:11:55] Wayne: Just the grassed area. Yeah. Outside the
[00:11:57] Ayrton: MCG amongst the punters amongst
[00:11:59] Wayne: the [00:12:00] punters and I remember at that time and I reckon was around 94 And I remember having a conversation saying this this has got to change so went to Ricky and Got a few people behind it and obviously went and spoke to the Players Association and said we shouldn't be we shouldn't have to park You know, amongst the, the, you know, the, the supporters there's going, something's going to happen soon and someone's going to get hurt, whether it be a player or a supporter that, you know, that, that should, that is avoidable.
[00:12:30] Wayne: Because you'd cop abuse, wouldn't you? That's avoidable, avoidable. Yes. Oh yeah. I, I've numerous times securities follow, I'd taken me to my car footy, numerous times back in, in that period where we weren't parking underneath. And you look at all the stadiums, you look at all the stadiums now, and Geelong's, Geelong they park in that park, but it's a very short, you know, what is it, 20, 30 metre walk straight into their rooms.
[00:12:54] Wayne: But there's very few grounds now where you, where you have to walk through or walk out after a particular [00:13:00] game through the punters. So
[00:13:01] Ayrton: Dusty's got you to, he's got to thank you then, does he? Well, not
[00:13:04] Wayne: me, but I think Ricky Nixon and, and the players that he managed at that time had a big say in, in those types of things being
[00:13:12] Ayrton: changed.
[00:13:12] Ayrton: Of course, referring to Dusty leaving his, his car under the MCG for a week after, after
[00:13:17] Wayne: winning. I get what you meant. I've left mine under there a couple of times too actually. Have you? Yeah. For a week? Um, a few days. I
[00:13:27] Ayrton: could imagine that. Uh, now the AFL Players Association now, uh, are big. As I referred to before, in terms of educating the players on so many different issues in the game, whether it's, uh, drugs, gambling, uh, finances, all that sort of thing.
[00:13:44] Ayrton: When did that start to become prevalent for you, or were you towards the end of career and it was less relevant for you?
[00:13:50] Wayne: I think it's all, it's just grown. It's just, it grows every year. And I think, you know, we, we, we have the AFL and the AFL [00:14:00] Players Association, we have become organisations that seem to be...
[00:14:03] Wayne: Um, I guess trying to, trying to set the example. That's not to say that, that's not to say that, um, players, AFL players, uh, aren't subjected to or don't follow in normal societies. you know, shoes, so to speak. They have the same issues and they have the same temptations. And that's what, that's what can be annoying sometimes when people go, Oh, they play, they get paid all this money.
[00:14:26] Wayne: They shouldn't make same mistakes as a normal 18 year old. Hang on. They're 18, 19. That's why they're making these mistakes because. Just because they can kick a footy doesn't make them any different to someone that can't kick a footy. And so, so, but that's where it's changed. Yes, the education around a lot of different things.
[00:14:42] Wayne: I mean, you only have to see, and it's still got a long way to go given recent history and still dingbats in the crowd, um, yelling certain things out or trolling on social media. But the, you know, the, the, we, we know we've just had the anniversary of Nikki Wynne Marr. Um, and, and where we've got to now, [00:15:00] which is, you know, obviously a lot further down the lines, but still yet a long, a long way to go.
[00:15:05] Wayne: And it is all about education. And I think that the Players Association and the AFL and the players within the game are all across it. It's a few dingbats in the outer that we have to get over the line in terms of racism. But there's, there's so many things that they've done and they encourage you to do different courses.
[00:15:24] Wayne: Well, have you done, what courses have you done? Well, I did a computer course. A computer course? But, uh, you're not the most technologically, Arch and I did a computer course actually. Who was worse? Well, he could send an email before me, let's put it that way. Um, not sure I passed it, but I, it was a token effort.
[00:15:44] Wayne: You know, they wanted us to do courses. I thought, Oh, what's one I can do. And anyone that knows me. knows what I'm like on a computer would say that it'd be fair to say I didn't pass it. You barely answer text messages, let alone. I'm not great. I also did a, I did a [00:16:00] cooking course, which. Fair to say I didn't pass that either.
[00:16:04] Wayne: I also did, and I'm not sure this falls into, uh, the Players Association or what they stood for, but I did a blackjack course with BJ Masters. That might have been out of the BJ Masters, by the way, if you gamble, gamble responsibly. Um, but BJ Masters was a professional blackjack who was banned from all the casinos.
[00:16:27] Wayne: And he had a, he had a apartment across the road from Crown and you, you'd go up there and he had the blackjack table set up and you'd sit there and do that. So Lee Colbert and I did that, um, over, over the course of, you know, weeks and weeks.
[00:16:40] Ayrton: Do you think that improved your, your game? Oh, 100%. Were you, were you like counting cards like they do in
[00:16:45] Wayne: the movies?
[00:16:45] Wayne: I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I got that far, but certainly know the rules, what, you know, what to split and what to double on and all of those different things. So very, well, very important. Um, and the other one I did, I, I did a scuba diving course. [00:17:00] Now, I feel like we've gone off track from the PA a bit there.
[00:17:03] Wayne: No, well, they paid for it. Did they? No, no. Oh, jeez. No, I did a scuba course and, and got my ticket. Scuba diving ticket and a lot of that was just to get away, you know, you were on holidays with, um, with, uh, your partner or, or, or a group and you just needed a little bit of you time. So you'd just go out in a boat and do a scuba diving course.
[00:17:24] Wayne: It's actually quite a tough, um, it's a very long test, written test that you have to do to get that. And
[00:17:30] Ayrton: you did a written, you did a
[00:17:31] Wayne: written test. I did. I studied. I actually studied the whole holiday to get it.
[00:17:36] Ayrton: That's incredible. I couldn't imagine that.
[00:17:38] Wayne: To be honest with you. So anyway, there are a few courses that the players, they like to push you into these things.
[00:17:43] Wayne: And that's happening more now because they want players to be able to transition. I think the biggest, the biggest thing that the players association. have to do. And I think that the biggest concern that they have is this new agreement. I don't think players are paid enough. I think that [00:18:00] there is still so much scope for what they can do for their, for their playing group.
[00:18:06] Wayne: And the other, and the big one is when players transition out of the game, when they transition out of the game, I don't think that they get Um, looked after as well as they should. Those that fall on, um, hard times. You wrote about
[00:18:17] Ayrton: this last year, didn't you? So you described the Players Association as a toothless tiger.
[00:18:23] Ayrton: Mm. Because you thought they weren't, um, supporting the players enough post footy. Yeah. Particularly the players that had played... A lot of footy and had had serious injuries of which you are now one. You're heading in for surgery. Fourth of July. Fourth of July. Okay. So that's for your shoulder. You were going to get that done originally last year, I believe.
[00:18:43] Ayrton: Um, so you need a replacement. You had multiple surgeries on that during your career. So you wanted the players association to be more active in supporting you in getting that done. and other players in
[00:18:55] Wayne: similar. No, it wasn't, wasn't me. The reason why I didn't get it done at the time, I've been insured since I was [00:19:00] 16 years of age, private health.
[00:19:02] Wayne: And it was the fact that that was the only thing that I wasn't insured for. I was insured for every other surgery that you can get except for apparently a replacement of, of a joint. So therefore, so I've waited the 12 months over the 12 months now. So I'll get it done on the 4th of July. Um, but I was, I did call them the toothless tiger because I'd spoken to numerous players.
[00:19:24] Wayne: when we wrote that article and found that there was, there was some of those players didn't get phone calls back and the support wasn't there. So I was off the back of a few of those talks and then I went and caught up with Paul Marsh and Tim Harrington and they filled me in on some of the stories and I guess being taken advantage of.
[00:19:46] Wayne: Some players have, have, you know, gone back numerous times. Um, to, to receive help and there's only so much that they can do for one particular player, which is probably fair enough. I do think there's got to be an adjustment made [00:20:00] for, at the moment, if you've played one game or you've played 300 games, you get the same cover.
[00:20:07] Wayne: As you get the same color as one another, so I'm not sure how that fits. Surely if you played 300 games, you can have more injuries later in life that need to be looked after rather than if you've played one, I mean, unless you do your knee in the first game, you know, so I think there's got to be a little bit of a tidy up there and how they scale that.
[00:20:30] Wayne: and how players get looked after. But the biggest challenge that they had getting back to that point is then how they, how they can support, um, the players afterwards. And I, and I know people go, Oh, they've got to look after themselves. And then this might, because all of these courses that they get pushed into and they get told that they need a life after footy.
[00:20:49] Wayne: And it just doesn't work like that. They, they put all of their eggs into that basket and yes, they do token. Courses like a few that I mentioned, [00:21:00] but they're not serious about it. Their form just slightly drops off. I guarantee the club's coming to them saying, hey, you just focus on your footy, because at the end of the day, they're there to play good footy.
[00:21:11] Wayne: And it is really sad to see how many players do fall on hard times afterwards. And it's just because of the effort that they put in and they don't focus on things. during their, their career. And that, that's including guys that have played 10 years or 11, you know, or even more. I could name, um, I could name a few, but I don't want to embarrass them without, um, we might, we might even have a few come on The Truth Hurts and tell us a little bit about their journey.
[00:21:39] Wayne: But it, but that's the area that I think is the biggest area for concern. So whether there's a bigger pool of money that can go into helping these players afterwards, um, I, I think one of the greatest things they could set up, it's the first time I've said this, but they should set up a recruitment company, the Players Association.
[00:21:58] Wayne: They, for their own, [00:22:00] correct, their own recruitment company for employing ex AFL players and positioning them in jobs that they think are suitable. I think it'd be quite profitable. And I think the one thing that you get from an ex AFL player, well the majority of them anyway, is they're disciplined to be on time, they love routine, so, so positioning them, you know, to their, to their personality and something that they might go and enjoy.
[00:22:22] Wayne: You're never going to love Uh, a job like you did playing AFL footy. Of course. So that's the other mental side of it. They come out of it and they go, well where's the adrenaline, like, you know, playing, that's the best, it's the best job in the world. You know, whether you're a basketballer, footballer, soccer player, whatever you are, it's the Have you
[00:22:39] Ayrton: tried to replace that post footy with anything?
[00:22:41] Ayrton: Have you, have you,
[00:22:43] Wayne: well for me, for me it was routine. For me it was routine and not having that routine. Um, be fair to say, my, my, my story is well documented that I didn't handle, um, retirement all that well. Went straight into the media where you, [00:23:00] you know, you, um, didn't really have to think other than some of the training that you do to, to go into it, but, uh, did a bit of coaching obviously.
[00:23:09] Wayne: Collingwood for a year, which didn't, um, go all that well in terms of, um, finding the time to get in there. And so it was, yeah, so a lot of players do find that. And it, and it is, it is just around that structure. That they need. But a recruitment company, I think would be a, it's got some merit. Very
[00:23:30] Ayrton: good idea.
[00:23:30] Ayrton: Before we sign off on this topic, you are going to present au to the players association at their anniversary, or you're just gonna be a part of it? Uh, how's that working for you? No,
[00:23:39] Wayne: they, they've got a, they've got a 50 year celebration actually just around the corner from here. Um, the Bells Hotel. And
[00:23:47] Ayrton: will you have a role in that or your game?
[00:23:49] Wayne: Um, I'm, I, I'm going to roll up because it's around the corner. I have actually really enjoyed the conversation that I had with Paul Marsh when we caught up, um, last year or the year before. [00:24:00] Um, so I really want to go along and just see, just see who turns up to that I think will be quite fascinating.
[00:24:06] Wayne: Fascinating. I know some of the older guys do, but I wonder, I reckon there might be a few guys that just recently outta the game. It's also a great networking, um, opportunity for some players as well that might be feeling a little bit, um, you know, might be feeling a little bit down or a little bit lost.
[00:24:21] Wayne: The ability to go to one of these, and it might be a next player that's got a business that's looking for someone that has a drive. and bang, all of a sudden you've got a job and you're on your way. So, um, looking forward to that, but they've done, they've, they've done some great things, the Players Association, but this next, this next period of the next sort of six or seven years of which they're negotiating now is a really crucial, big opportunity for them.
[00:24:47] Wayne: Absolutely.
[00:24:48] Ayrton: We'll duck some great insight into the AFL Players Association and how that's matched up to your journey in footy. Just a reminder for our listeners, they can like and subscribe Wayne Carey, the truth hurts. On YouTube. [00:25:00] Rate and review. Give us your comments and uh, we'll incorporate them into the shows.