The Lie of New Social Norms: SEG 2 of 2 - The Pursuit of Happiness Through Selflessness and Valued Relationships

Can happiness truly be found at the heart of self-centeredness? This episode takes a critical look at a best-selling author's claim that putting oneself first is the key to a joyful life. We counter this perspective with a deep dive into the richness of emotional connections and the often underappreciated beauty of selflessness. As we unravel this debate, we also reflect on the poignant storytelling of Disney movies, where parental loss is a common thread - could these narratives be shaping our views on family and the handling of trauma in ways we haven't fully acknowledged? Moreover, we step into the intersection of culture and personal journeys as we dissect the growing trend of divorce jewelry. What does this say about the value we place on marriage, and could it be that society is flirting with the notion of commitment as an outdated concept?

With a landscape of relationships that is ever-evolving, our conversation pivots to the complexities surrounding divorce - is the burgeoning practice of commemorating one's split with jewelry a cause for celebration or a moment for somber contemplation? We probe the symbolism behind the transformation of wedding rings from symbols of unity to emblems of individuality. Recognizing that, for some, divorce might be a liberating decision, particularly from toxic partnerships, we nonetheless question if the casualness with which the institution of marriage is increasingly treated could be undermining its sanctity. We champion the idea of using personal growth as the compass to navigate post-divorce life, preparing for future relationships that are not just more profound but also anchored in commitment rather than convenience. Join us in this exploration of life's intricate tapestry, where endings and beginnings intertwine in the continuous pursuit of authentic happiness.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

common sense advice for life, helping with self-awareness, family and relationships in a complex world. Now here's will, kesley and tony pack.

Speaker 2: 0:12

Welcome back to the show. Thanks for joining us. How's it going? It's let's chat with will and tony. Here we are. It takes two to have a relationship. You cannot have a relationship with yourself, contrary to this woman we've been talking about, who has this best-selling book.

Speaker 3: 0:25

She believes relationships are all about you, hey selfishness is the way to happiness, according to this lady. That's right Before we left for a little break you said a fascinating thing.

Speaker 2: 0:34

It's fascinating that in most of these Disney movies they kill off the mom.

Speaker 3: 0:37

How do you think about that?

Speaker 2: 0:40

Somewhere in the past the mom had died. Then we got thinking about Peter Pan, mom, dad or girl. Let's just go through the Disney movies.

Speaker 3: 0:44

You got Sleeping Beauty no parents. You have Cinderella Mom's gone. You have Rapunzel she gets taken from her family.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Yep, you know it's interesting that you're right that many of these shows have that emotional breakaway from mom and or mom and dad Family.

Speaker 3: 1:04

They break away from family To bring that something traumatic has happened in their life.

Speaker 2: 1:08

According to this bizarre lady that wrote this book, that we won't mention her name anymore because I'm not going to promote her crap. Can I say that on the radio? You just did Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:16

Here we are, will and Tony, living on the edge, that's the case. If you didn't have any feelings when you got separated from parents or a loving mother or something like that, if that wasn't a deep emotional connection that brought joy and happiness, killing off a mom wouldn't be that big a deal Wouldn't be that big a deal, right?

Speaker 2: 1:31

No, but she claims you don't need any of that stuff. You don't need to have love for elderly, you don't have to have love for children, you don't have to have love for womanhood. All that's a big trap. But yet nothing is just. I can find nothing in society except a self-absorbed evil person. And I'm going to throw that in there yeah, because I think that has to be included, that it's all about me, because the only other person I know that was all about me was Lucifer.

Speaker 3: 1:54

True or not? No, it's true, because call it what it is.

Speaker 2: 1:56

It's an evil principle.

Speaker 3: 1:58

It is, and I agree with that. So tell you what if you want to be happy, be selfless, be grateful for what you have? Be willing to give of yourself for the help of a charity, deep relationships and love and caring with others, and I get it and that will bring you happiness.

Speaker 2: 2:13

I get it the moment. It may be difficult. You may come with all kinds of feelings. There's a Thai word I like to use, called Jung. You know this makes me Jung. It's a hard word to say in English, but it's all about being stressed.

Speaker 2: 2:24

Young, young. You know the G? U-n-g Young, young, young. Yeah, it youngs you. You think about it. Helping your kids succeed can be a younging thing. Right, it can make it's hard on you. Loving a husband when they have a stinky breath could be hard on you. Bearing children can be hard on you. Not having the career you want because you put it aside, because you think that having children and the future of children are more important, that could be something that kind of digs into. Causing you grief Okay, but this idea that a life that's without grief is a happy life is a failure, especially when it gets to the end and you realize you didn't do anything with it.

Speaker 3: 3:00

It's the big lie. It's the big lie. Well, it's paramount to the lie of hey if put a ivy in my arm and gave me a morphine drip and just numb me out. So when I was five years old, give me the drip. You numb me out for however long I I lived numbed out.

Speaker 2: 3:16

Basically, I'm not feeling pain, I'm feeling euphoric, and I'm numbed out for 40 years and then die all I know is, the greatest joys I've had in my life came along with the greatest heartaches of my life. Yeah, and you can't have one without the other. Nope, and if you're unwilling to go tap into those, you'll never tap into the great things of having life Correct. Let's just break up. I don't know if this is a misnomer, but this is another idea.

Speaker 2: 3:38

We're getting strange things in society. Yes, societal ideas that are becoming popular, popular. Here's the newest popular one that's out. You haven't heard Tony? There's this new trend now of jewelry based on divorce. Yeah, divorce, jewelry, divorce jewelry Okay, and it started with people that get divorced. You know what do I do with the ring, what do I do with the stone.

Speaker 3: 3:58

Oh, the wedding ring. So you got the wedding ring. You get divorced and you still have the ring.

Speaker 2: 4:02

Yeah, and the ring, you know, do I wear it? Do I throw it away? Do I sell it? Now, by the way, I've back. Okay, that's just me All right. In England, by the way, the law has established it If you give that ring to the person, they own it, no matter if you break up, if they leave divorce it's their ring. Okay, it's fine. I mean, it's your ring.

Speaker 3: 4:27

I gave it to you. Yeah, here, isn't it basically part of the assets?

Speaker 2: 4:31

It's an asset thing to be split up and but now it's become a jewelry icon and I'm looking at this list of famous actresses and models right that are all taking their jewelry, having it remade into divorce jewelry, and they wear it on the middle finger to celebrate yes, the divorce.

Speaker 2: 4:50

To celebrate the divorce, because now it's like I now wear this in something that I'm more proud of, and I get that right. The ring represents something that was nasty. It didn't work so well. I get it, but the way this is presented it's presented about, and I don't want to sound.

Speaker 3: 5:02

I don't know where this is going to go. It sounds like we're going to be walking the razor's edge on this one.

Speaker 2: 5:08

Yeah, because it talks about celebrating the courage of divorce. Now, I say that with that in my heart because look there is a time you and I will agree. There is a time when divorce is proper.

Speaker 3: 5:17

Yeah, absolutely, if you're sitting there in a relationship that's abusive, that's degrading, harmful, unsafe, that type of situation.

Speaker 2: 5:27

Even Moses in the book of the Old Testament said he gave ritz of divorce.

Speaker 3: 5:33

Because there were times when it was correct. There's times when it's correct, and those of you who have experienced those time and have had the courage to get out of that, you know good on you Bless your heart. I hope life is treating you well. So that's not what we're talking about. I don't want to cross that yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:46

So, and I don't want anybody to feel less of what, because I realize and again, I work a lot of this in the clinic and it's there's some very, very difficult scenarios, but very, very difficult scenarios. But there's also this attitude, and that's what this thing, this article, brings up to me, is the attitude of, yeah, I got married, but In fact, the girl here that's in this has four rings and they represent her four failed marriages. Yeah, so what you have here is a person that didn't really commit to anything. I don't think. She obviously has some other real problems going on in her life and all she has is these great big rocks. So she's apparently married people of substance.

Speaker 2: 6:17

And now she has these great big rocks and she's turned them into this fashionable jewelry and they started this big trend about divorce jewelry and celebrating this divorce jewelry. What is wrong with that? Why did it get me wrong? It hit me wrong not because of the people that I know that go through the grind of a hard marriage. It's this idea that we're really celebrating divorce-ism. We're really celebrating the idea of like, look, I did marriage, but I'm bigger now because I'm divorced.

Speaker 3: 6:40

Yeah, where it's.

Speaker 2: 6:41

Follow what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 6:43

Yeah, I follow what you're saying. Well, I'll tell you how my reaction is. I'm hearing this. It's one of sadness, right? Because when two people decide to get married, I've never seen a couple Hated each other.

Speaker 2: 6:57

Day of the people decide to get married.

Speaker 3: 6:58

I've never seen a couple at the hated each other day at the marriage hated each other. Right or? I loathe you and therefore let's get married right, regardless of where you're uh, you know member of the lgbq population, get married or you're. You're a traditional marriage, you know, whatever the case of your union is, I've never seen two people standing there going I hate you. So therefore, let's get together and be married. Every single situation that I know of it's two people that love each other, that want and desire to be forever together, and they're then it falls apart where, and then it falls apart.

Speaker 3: 7:34

So so the sadness to me is is not in the. I want to go celebrate the fact that let's end this. This is awesome is I'm saddened because of the it was so great at one time, and why did it become ungreat to the point where I want to celebrate the separation.

Speaker 2: 7:53

I'm not so sure that's what I say. It's kind of like mockery to marriage to me. Yeah, this idea that I got married just to get divorced and I'm going to get another ring to put on my finger like it's some kind of a reward. Yeah, as this lady is doing here. I so much agree with what you're trying to. You know you're edging out.

Speaker 3: 8:11

You know what I'm trying to pick up here.

Speaker 2: 8:12

Yeah, yeah yeah, it's this idea that people, what if we spent time really focusing on what we could do, what we could own and what happened in that relationship to become better in our next relationship? Because nobody goes into I don't know of anybody goes into marriage wanting to fail it, except this lady. I have to kind of think. I think she goes into marriage with the idea that at year two she gets out and gets a free ring. That's what it felt like to me.

Speaker 3: 8:37

Yeah, maybe so, and unfortunately, if that's the case and she's in Vogue magazine, if that's the case, I'm saddened by it, because wouldn't that have been a much better outcome? If ring number one was truly a committed ring and they stayed joyfully married all the way through life and had this amazing connection, would that not have been the better?

Speaker 2: 9:01

outcome. So this is where I have to get in and say look, the problem, this is what we do. We debunk bad advice. The bad advice in society today when it comes to marriage is we get married out of convenience. I want you to think about it. A lot of people get together and then they want to live together for a while. And people, that's now the common norm that you live together for a period of time to make sure.

Speaker 3: 9:24

Try it out. Try it out, test drive that car.

Speaker 2: 9:27

Make sure it works for you, baby, before you get into it. I'm going to now debunk that idea. I don't see very many marriages succeed when they're based on convenience. Oh, they have to be based on commitment, On commitment. A marriage and a commitment is a whole other concept, but today's society wants to make it convenient. Right, I love you, you love me. We want to spend all our loving time together.

Speaker 3: 9:52

So let's get married, because that's how we get to do that, out of the convenience that we have to abstain or whatever the case may be.

Speaker 3: 9:59

The problem with that convenience idea is when you're sitting there and you're in a marriage of convenience and it's just convenient. Well, what happens when the hard time hits, which it always does? It does. Anybody who's been married longer than 10 minutes knows that there's challenges, there's struggles and you got to get through that. But there's a deeper joy and reward on the other side of the struggle. But if you're in it only for convenience, when it gets inconvenient, when it gets inconvenient, it's like meh.

Speaker 2: 10:24

You get out, out, let's go. You celebrate your new ring you put another ring on the middle finger, right.

Speaker 2: 10:36

That's what I guess I'm trying to allude to is. But we don't all have the good skill sets and it does take two people to be married and there's no way you can make the other person become a healthy person in a relationship. They have to decide they want to do that, and so there are a lot of things where two very well-minded people get married and one just doesn't want to play anymore, and that's not your fault. But if we would spend more energy understanding that in the commitment of marriage, with both being willing to learn the skill sets that help in relationship building, the joy on the other side of that is significant.

Speaker 3: 11:09

Significant.

Speaker 2: 11:11

It transcends any joy that I know In my case the same thing, and so, again, we're not discounting those that are in bad scenarios, that's another conversation. We're talking about people that get into some decent, healthy relationships. But it just gets inconvenient. We're going to move on. But this idea, now that Vogue magazine and other places are now making this, the new cultural thing, that we all all of us divorcees are celebrating our courage in being divorced and it's not just because they got off a bad relationship, it's because they're free and now they can go play in another convenient relationship until they're free. And what they get out of it is this cool ring that they're going to get redone, and I don't know if it's people doing this or just the jewelry industry making a new marketing image out of it.

Speaker 2: 11:53

You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 11:54

It just it's stinky, it just doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel like we're celebrating the right thing. Now I tell you what If you are an individual that had an abusive relationship and you had the courage, got out and, let's say, you got one of these, it's your survival ring.

Speaker 2: 12:13

I get it, I get it, I love it.

Speaker 3: 12:15

Good on you for having that courage. You know, good on you for having that courage. But if you just went into a convenient relationship, and then bailed, because it was easy to bail. My heart saddens for you because you missed out on some transcendent joy.

Speaker 2: 12:29

Yeah, so again we're talking about social norms. This is becoming new social norms. It's interesting that none of them want to celebrate any of these things that we talk about, that we have found great joy in and great satisfaction. They want to celebrate something that's individualistic and something that's very selfish, something that's self-absorbed.

Speaker 3: 12:48

It's unfortunate.

Speaker 2: 12:48

That's what's fascinating about it and we look at like technology. A lot of kids today, even adults, are losing the ability to even have relationships because they don't know how to even have them.

Speaker 3: 13:00

Yeah, they don't know how to connect with a normal person or something real, because all of their input and stimulus is coming from something fake.

Speaker 2: 13:06

So we want to talk about getting real. Getting real At some point, y'all. We got to break away from some of this social norm. You've got to put up the fight. It will take you in the tank and it will not be worth it in the end, I promise you. When you get to those pearly gates you're about ready to die and cross that veil. You will regret having that self-absorption. It will.

Speaker 3: 13:24

It's not worth it.

Speaker 2: 13:25

We've got to take a quick break. Come back with a couple of thoughts, a couple of thoughts at the end, and we'll get out of this one. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1: 13:43

So let's chat with.

Speaker 2: 13:44

Will's, will kesley and tony peck. All right, welcome back. Let's chat with will and tony. How's it going, will? Mr tony peck?

Speaker 3: 13:48

good to see you, as always it's so good to be here and we're running out, we're running really short on time and and we've been talking about these societal norms and the pressure from the world and these things that you hear all the time that this is how, where happiness is and where it comes from.

Speaker 2: 14:05

And you get it on Facebook every day Like oh, look at me, look at me, look at my greatness, look at my glory.

Speaker 3: 14:09

Yeah, you look at all this stuff that makes happy and what we're telling you is hollow, so Will give me your two or three things that was really going to give us happiness.

Speaker 2: 14:19

Here's the things I've learned about happiness. Okay, I have learned and I'm telling you this from a very personal, very private, very special event in my own life. You know I had cancer and I got to meet that moment when I was about to die, and I can tell you emphatically you will not worry or think or be concerned about anything except the relationship you have with a spouse and the relationship you have with your children, and you're standing with God. They will be the utmost important to you and you will look back and go did I give it all that I could have? And that is not a place to start having regrets because you don't get to come back. So I find that commitment to these personal relationships is the greatest place you will find your long lasting joy. And number two is to become more selfless. Oh, I love it In who you are and what you do. You'll find great joy in helping others to find happiness, much more joy than you find getting your own happiness.

Speaker 3: 15:09

Yeah, and I'd add to that I love that idea of selflessness. You got to be selfless and I'm going to throw on be grateful. Find something each day in your life to be grateful. Throw on be grateful. Find something each day in your life to be grateful. And third, give your love to somebody. Give your unconditional love to another human being and see them for who you are and find that relationship in your life, because human connection and human relationships is what it's all about and where joy comes from. It is not from things, it's not from money, it's not from selfishness. It is not from things, it's not from money, it's not from selfishness, it's not from looking out for me, it's giving of yourself to somebody else, where happiness truly comes.

Speaker 2: 15:47

Well, said, well said. Thank you, tony. We're trying to help you find the real joy in life. You're not going to find it in this fake stuff. We get this coming out of that woodworks state of stuff, woodworks, yep State of stuff. You already know in your heart that are true and correct.

Speaker 3: 15:58

Follow those feelings and you'll be right in the right path.

Speaker 2: 16:02

See you next week. Join us on our podcast at let's Chat with Will and Tony. We'll see you next week. Next Saturday no-transcript.