Johanna Garton: Author, All in Stride: A Journey in Running, Courage, and the Search for the American Dream

How do you build courage through running? Join us for a compelling episode of 3, 2, 1, Go the Podcast! We have the pleasure of hosting Johanna Garton, a seasoned sports writer, dedicated high school cross-country coach, and marathon veteran from Denver. Joanna reveals the heart and soul behind her latest book, "All in Stride: A Journey in Running, Courage, and the Search for the American Dream," which follows the incredible stories of professional distance runners Elvin Kibet and Shadrick Kipchirchir, as well as world-class runner Samantha Schultz. Their journeys, marked by resilience and cultural adaptation, offer a profound look into the lives of athletes who dared to dream big.

Ever wanted a behind-the-scenes peek at the lives of athletes and artists? We bring you just that! Reminisce with us about an unforgettable family cruise, the joy of shared experiences, and the magic of a private Broadway rehearsal that left us spellbound. These personal memories are juxtaposed with Johanna's own story of perseverance—from her early days as a middle school runner to becoming a collegiate athlete at Syracuse University, and eventually making a mark in sports journalism in Denver. Her journey is a testament to the relentless pursuit of passion and the enchantment of travel.

But that's not all! We also delve into the broader world of athletics, celebrating the diverse backgrounds and incredible achievements of athletes from around the globe. From the Kenyan roots of Elvin and Shadrick to the multifaceted skills of modern pentathlete Samantha Schultz, we shine a spotlight on their extraordinary accomplishments. Plus, we've got practical tips for healthy grilling and night race preparation to keep you motivated. Tune in for an episode brimming with inspirational stories, heartfelt reflections, and actionable advice for athletes at every level.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome to 3, 2, 1, Go the Podcast. I'm John Pelkey.

Speaker 2: 0:08

And I'm Carissa Galloway and we're bringing you stories from start to finish to keep the everyday athlete motivated to keep moving towards the next finish.

Speaker 1: 0:16

All right, carissa. Today, our guest is Joanna Garten, a sports writer, high school cross-country coach from Denver, who's also a veteran marathoner, counts five Boston Marathon finishes to her resume and oh, just by the way is the author of three fabulous books, the latest being All in Stride, a Journey in Running, courage and the Search for the American Dream, which was released just last month, as we're recording here, in June. It's a remarkable story of professional distance runners, a married couple, elvin Kivet and Shadrick Kipchirchir. I got that right, didn't I? You?

Speaker 2: 0:51

did Good job.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Wow, thank you, as well as world-class runner Samantha Schultz, and it really is truly an inspiring and, frankly, a thought-provoking episode.

Speaker 2: 1:01

It is, and it has two sort of stories that parallel but they're very different. You know Elvin and Shadrick coming from West Africa, samantha being a modern pentathlon athlete, but what they have in common is that they're part of this Army program. So when you start to watch the Olympic trials in the US or the national championships that are coming up, you're going to see Army jerseys out there a lot. A lot of these are East Africans that are coming to the US to take part in the Army, but some of these are Americans, like Samantha, and this book is going to give you an insight to that program and to the sacrifice that these athletes make. So a shout out to all of our amazing military members and all of these team members. Joanna has several books. After listing this, you're going to want to add them to your must read list, and I personally just connect because I have a passion for telling the stories of East African runners. They have amazing stories that sometimes don't get told, and she does just that.

Speaker 2: 1:51

Today. On Healthier, you will talk about how to make really healthier and we'll answer a listener's question about getting proof of time at a night race. Thank you for listening, for adding us to your library. The algorithm likes that. So, if you haven't done it, if you really love us, check out the and check out the show notes for how to sponsor us and let's do this, all right, john, as we are taping this, you are less than seven days away from another Rolling Stones concert. Lay it out. How was it? Give us the recap?

Speaker 1: 2:36

Well, it was Monday night. We're taping this on a Friday, so yeah, just at the end of the week. It was terrific and I've mentioned before this is my sixth time. Sixth time seeing the Rolling Stones. I saw them first in December of 1981 on one of their early farewell tours, the Tattoo you Tour and 43, 42 and a half years later here we are again.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Just a great show. First of all I want to shout out to sound designers Stadium sound is so much better than it used to be. Outdoor stadium concerts used to be really dicey sound-wise. It sounded amazing. The band seemed really revitalized. You know they lost Charlie Watts a few years ago. Steve Jordan has stepped in, who's longtime drummer with many people but with Keith's expensive winos side project, and really seemed to energize the band. They sounded great, I can tell you. The surprising thing for me is I they start almost all their shows, if not all of them at this point would start me up, which I've always said. That's a stone song I you know I've heard plenty. I don't need to hear again, but it was it just can do now with uh, uh, with the screens and stuff. You know that from going to concerts what you know, what used to have to be moving backdrop stuff is now just all digital.

Speaker 2: 3:52

Talked about jumping people yeah, it's insane.

Speaker 1: 3:56

It was. It was a great show. I've shouted to my, my good friend, david lowe, who got me better tickets than I could ever afford. It's the closest I've ever. As I said, I've seen a lot of stone shows where I could see mick. This was the first one where Mick could see me.

Speaker 1: 4:10

And that was pretty amazing. Yeah, we were just in like they actually had a mosh pit section, which I don't remember in Stone's concerts of the past, so they had a bunch of hearty people who were in the mosh pit up front, just the standing room, only close to the stage, which I think is pretty cool, but we were in the first section, behind that kind of midway, so we had pretty. There was good seats obviously better seats than I've ever had for the Stones and pretty good seats for any concert. So it was just terrific. If you have a chance to see them, highly recommend. They sound great.

Speaker 1: 4:40

And I did get to hear one song other than the songs off the new album, which were all new they played. She's a rainbow was the song you could vote on on the internet, though I could never find where to vote so I didn't have a chance to vote. I would have voted for rocks off um, but uh, yeah, I don't think I've ever seen them do that before and that's not always the case with the stones concert for me, because I've seen them a number of times. So just great stuff. Had a what a fabulous, fabulous time. I say this if you want some advice we met, we parked a long way from the stadium, met at a bar in Orlando to have David, his daughter, who was with us, and a friend of theirs.

Speaker 1: 5:20

They were having a little dinner. I'd already eaten, so I had an adult beverage. We had the adult beverage and we Ubered over near the stadium and it worked out really well. Our Uber driver was great. We were in a big Lincoln Navigator thing. To get us over there Felt like a superstar and that worked out. Leaving trying to get an Uber was a different story. I got my steps in, for all of my lack of exercising on the cruise, I got a lot of it. We had to walk about a mile and three quarters to finally find a place and then we had to wait about 40 minutes from there for the Uber to get to us.

Speaker 2: 5:56

Did you walk back towards downtown Orlando? Walk back towards downtown Orlando.

Speaker 1: 6:01

Yeah, almost got all the way to Church Street before we could actually get an Uber that would pick us up, so that was the only thing we really had to go through. That was less than top-notch, but still the whole experience was great.

Speaker 2: 6:12

So here's my sort of call out to people and your advice is welcome. So Claire and I are going to see Taylor Swift in Miami. So that happened to me. When my friend Megan and I saw Taylor Swift's Reputation Tour years ago in Tampa, we walked forever and ever and ever. I bought parking because my thought was, if we're stuck and parking, at least my kid is in the car with me. She's not walking Like do you think that's the better idea? Even if it takes us forever, she'll fall asleep. I can't really drink. I can have maybe one beer. You know, there with my kid I got to be enjoying, but I was like we'll be in the car and that felt safer than us like trying to get an Uber.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Yeah, no, I think that's probably a good choice. I mean, you know every stadium is different and I don't even know what the parking options were for this, because when David got, the tickets.

Speaker 2: 6:54

You always have to buy them off some second hand.

Speaker 1: 7:00

You'd buy them off StubHub or something.

Speaker 2: 7:02

Yeah, I guess, and of course then there's a lot of people, but for me it's not. You know, with my kid it's not really.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think probably buying the parking was probably not a bad idea.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Okay, that's what I did. So if anybody has any thoughts on that Miami ideas because I don't want to make her leave early to, like you know, let's miss the last song to beat the traffic, which I mean.

Speaker 1: 7:20

I do love?

Speaker 2: 7:21

Is it at the stadium where the Dolphins play. Yes, the name of which now escapes me it's at Hard Rock, which, by the way not that near Miami.

Speaker 1: 7:28

Let's be honest here. I know it's in, it's well, north of Miami, yeah, and I've seen a Dolphins-Washington football game there years ago and I've been there for a couple other things, not. Yeah, I don't know how they work out with their parking, but I think you're probably going to be very happy.

Speaker 2: 7:46

I just feel like I would feel safer if she's just like in the car.

Speaker 1: 7:48

she can fall asleep and I get that, you know, for us just wandering around and it was great, people watching and everybody was in. You know, it was that whole thing. We're all in this really really great mood when we're leaving and singing the songs and stuff. So it was just part of the experience. Yes and again, and it was like $111. That happens, yeah, all right, you checked out an off-Disney property, disney resort, so you went to one of those ones that's not here in Orlando or one in Anaheim earlier in June. What's?

Speaker 2: 8:25

the story behind that. So a friend of mine, sarah, is a DVC member and she had points that were expiring. Now a side note is most of this trip I just kept trying to understand how DVC works.

Speaker 1: 8:38

There are some, it is a little.

Speaker 2: 8:40

Points and borrowing and then she had borrowed these and they couldn't go back and her home resort and all this stuff. So, anyway, she had points that were going to expire, so we went to Disney's Vero Beach Club Resort for two nights.

Speaker 1: 8:51

I have stayed there.

Speaker 2: 8:52

Have you Okay? So first I'll say I felt really bad about it because we came back from Alaska and then I was leaving my family again, so I still feel guilty about that. What was your opinion of it? Should you happen to remember this trip?

Speaker 3: 9:08

Yeah, it was when we used to travel for the espn club covering spring training in florida, we uh, they put us up there one night.

Speaker 1: 9:13

We were covering the dodgers because they used to train in vero beach and it was just cheaper to do that and I remember the resort being terrific. It uh it for spring training. It was a. You would have thought it would have been a fairly, uh, busy resort. It didn't seem overly busy that day. This has been a long time but I enjoyed it. I thought it was great. I thought it's a nice little resort and it's right there on the beach and it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 9:38

Yeah, I liked it. You step in and you definitely have that Disney feel with that big lobby, with all that kind of stuff. So I thought it was nice, quite enjoyable. It had one one sit down restaurant which we decided we were just going to eat at it two nights. We didn't want to go somewhere else, we didn't want to Uber because Vero Beach, where it is, it's a little ways to get to. More of like a downtownish.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Yeah, it's a little spread out. You're not really near a lot of.

Speaker 2: 9:57

I thought the pool area and I'm not. It was great I love sitting at a pool, but it wasn't like. I think there's like a bunch of brand new resorts here in Orlando. Like wasn't that upgraded.

Speaker 1: 10:10

Well, it was newer when I was there, so I just, and I remember we yeah, I didn't dislike it.

Speaker 2: 10:13

The slide was fun. They had slide races, john, that adults could do, and they gave out medals for the top three fastest. Male adult, female adult, kids, toddlers, like toddlers, like it's a good time. So it was a nice relaxing time. I enjoyed it. We didn't go to the beach very much, we just walked on the beach, stayed at the pool. I finished reading a book which I love when I have time to read, because I never do so. Thank you, sarah, for the trip and maybe someday I'll understand DVC points.

Speaker 1: 10:41

I'm telling you, and then I found out that, like people Stephanie talked about, that uh runs through breast cancer, about that she bought from like a secondary market, so she can't use her points for certain things.

Speaker 2: 10:51

Yeah, it's very arcane, oh I have one more thing to tell you. So we come back to the room. Speaking of being a DVC, she actually has two. She has a Riviera and a Boardwalk. So we come back to the room and there's a gift bag, which so nice. It was like thank you, dvc. I got a Tumblr. Nice I didn't get one in the mail, I know. That's why I'm so excited that I got one. A Vero Beach Tumblr.

Speaker 1: 11:12

I forgot to mention, though I didn't get one of those, but I did get a new Corksicle.

Speaker 2: 11:16

That's an upgrade. No offense, Travis. I think that's an upgrade.

Speaker 1: 11:19

A little bit of an upgrade. Well, cool beach we're resorting in. It's been a while since I've been there, but I think it is certainly a nice resort right there on the beach and a great place to go and relax.

Speaker 2: 11:32

Let me just say that to people Definitely yes, 100% in. It's not an excitement resort.

Speaker 1: 11:35

It's a relaxing resort.

Speaker 2: 11:36

Which we did.

Speaker 1: 11:37

Johnny loves.

Speaker 2: 11:38

Mm-hmm All right.

Speaker 1: 11:40

Last question We've missed a question from the cruise recap that we need to revisit because it's a good one. You would have thought we would have brought this up. Suzanne asks what our favorite memory was, and I'll let you go first.

Speaker 2: 11:54

Well, first I'll say that we went so lengthy on the cruise recap that we cut it, and Suzanne listened to the podcast and she shared. She listened to it, which we love when you guys share on Instagram, and then my brain was like, of course, hers is the question that I cut. So, anyway, we are going to go to favorite memory and I think it's. It's hard to pick one, especially with all the amazing like snapshots of Alaska, like now we're dog sledding, oh, we see this glacier. I think for me was right when we left port, we were out on the balcony of our room. We went out on our balcony and, you know, mojo was there, guy was there, the whole family was there. We had some wine for the adults, because my kids wanted to hear the horn, they wanted to hear the ba-ba-ba, and so we're out on the balcony and we're just.

Speaker 2: 12:34

The excitement level is high. It's those first minutes of vacation where you're out there and Claire was just mystified by we went under the Stanley Bridge and seeing all of these things, and so it was just a really nice family moment full of excitement and joy for what we were going to get to do. So I think that not being like a majestic scenery type of memory, but I think that memory will stick with me. You know my parents, my mom's 65 guys, maybe 71. So as they get older, like that will be like a. That was a happy moment, no worries, everything was going well, everyone's healthy, and we were celebrating and excited.

Speaker 1: 13:08

That's good. Your's good I know and I'm sitting here trying to think because I, you know, it's such, uh, such amazing experiences there, and I mentioned, you know, getting to meet page o'hara, who is the voice of belt and beauty and the beast, and talk to her about basketball, because she's an enormous basketball fan and a braves fan, by the way, and, uh, there's pretty good chance that she saw us at spring training. Uh, when you, you were the person in the crowd and I was the public address announcer.

Speaker 2: 13:32

Thank you for not saying the name of what I used to be called.

Speaker 1: 13:37

Well, I'd almost forgotten and thought about that in forever. But I will say my favorite memory and I have so many great memories and it is a little bit like a run Disney thing. I do this every year. We meet up with some of the same people, so it's really kind of like a family reunion when we get to go on one of these.

Speaker 1: 13:54

Um, but we had an experience where, um, my wife and I were heading up to the talent lounge, uh, which is sort of concierge for, uh, the, and I and I'm air quoting talent people. I know, I know, but there is actual talent on the ship and we and I don't think I mentioned this on the last show, though you know that was days ago, how would I remember? We were trying to get into the lounge, which was open specific hours, and they were kind of, they were not allowing us in initially, and then the door opened and the Disney music group people were in there Susan, egan and those folks and again, I'll forget everyone's name. I always bring up Susan's because she's the most well-known, but anyway, they were in there and they said, hey, we're going to do Adam J Levy, who was one of them as well. Broadway star is like we're going to be doing some Levy who was one of them as well Broadway star is like we're going to be doing a little bit of singing rehearsing.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Their show was later in the week, this was probably on Tuesday. Their show was on Friday or Saturday Friday I believe and so, if you don't mind and we won't annoy you, so we got to sit and watch a rehearsal from these people who are doing this thing that I always wanted to do. I mean, it was mentioned in our show with Tracy I wanted to be a musical theater performer. That was my dream, and to sit there and watch these folks in front of us do this rehearsal. And Jodi and I were the only people other than the bartenders and the waiters in there, so we had all these great hors d'oeuvres, adult beverage and got to watch them rehearse. That was very special and that's one of those things that we they closed the door behind us and would not let other people in. Mark Ferreira was in the hallway listening to the rehearsal and they were all out there wondering and it was just Jody and I sitting there listening to these guys rehearse. So that was a pretty special moment.

Speaker 1: 15:48

That was very very cool, yeah, and that's just a part and they're all just really just lovely, lovely people who were very accepting. Again, who is this clown who, you know, fell down on the show? I fell down on the show, I did with them, so you know a big part of it. But yeah, that was probably my favorite moment, but so many good moments.

Speaker 2: 16:04

Well, awesome. Well, thank you for the great question, and we would just love to go on more cruises, so please support the podcast.

Speaker 1: 16:11

Honestly, I saw last night I'm watching. I recorded a bunch because it was the DJ anniversary, so I recorded some more movies off of Turner Classic, freaking Disney ships doing the Turner Classic movie cruise. Come on, that's you.

Speaker 2: 16:26

Honestly, finally something where I'm age appropriate for Civil War Disney cruise. Come on, that's you Honestly, finally something where I'm age appropriate for Civil War.

Speaker 1: 16:30

Disney Cruise there's your man right there, but it's probably your normal Disney casting director, so I'll never get that work. Well, you know, putting it out there Never be my word All right.

Speaker 2: 16:38

We want to give a thanks, before we get into our interview, to Pillar Triple, a sports micronutrition company, and they've got products that intersect between pharmaceutical intervention and sports supplements for all kinds of athletes. John and I have been using the Pillar's Triple Magnesium. It has a meticulously crafted formula designed for not just sleep but recovery, and it works because it's a high dose of magnesium glycinate, which is a powerhouse ingredient, and you don't have to take my word for it Although I think that you should, because I'm telling you the truth but professional athletes like Jan Ferdino, ben Knute and Gwyn Jorgensen and many more are recovering and getting better sleep and getting to that starting line in the best condition over and over again with Pillar. Thank you, pillar, for the support for the product that really I look forward to drinking at night. So go to the feed You'll find them on the feed and use the code 321GO to get a little discount.

Speaker 1: 17:35

I have mine every night as well. We also want to thank Sarah Akers with Runs on Magic. Now, listeners know Sarah, lover of Run Disney, loves helping with those magical weekends. But really the world is your oyster with Sarah's help. Whether you're looking to book a honeymoon getaway, an all-inclusive girls trip, maybe the boys want to head over to Vegas family cruise international adventures, she's here and at your service.

Speaker 2: 18:01

That's right. She has complimentary travel planning services, personalized itineraries. You say, sarah, I want to do this. She's going to help you out. So again, promo code 321GO. When you request your vacation quote, give her the code and she might have a little something special extra for you, based on where you are going. You can find her at Instagram, at RunsOnMagic, where she shares special offers and more, or email her at RunsOnMagicictravel at gmailcom.

Speaker 1: 18:30

Okay, civilians, it's time for the goods. Let's get on to the interview. All right, our guest today is a mom marathoner, high school cross-country coach and a sports writer whose latest book is entitled All in Stride A Journey in Running Courage and the Search for the American Dream. Welcome to 321 Go, joanna Garten. Joanna, excuse me, and we asked ahead of time and I still got it wrong. Welcome to John Pelkey, the podcast.

Speaker 3: 18:58

It's so great to be here.

Speaker 1: 19:00

Well, first of all, we always ask everybody how are you first of all, and where are you? Let our listeners know.

Speaker 3: 19:06

Let's see, I'm doing pretty well and I am in beautiful, gorgeous, sunny Denver, Colorado.

Speaker 2: 19:12

So many people we know in Denver. Cree Kelly, I don't know if you've ever done Colfax. He's a big good friend of ours and I work all over the country and I never get to Denver and I have so many friends there. So, like hello universe, send me to Denver, but it's a beautiful place to be. We are going to talk about your new book, all in Stride, which I think is just fantastic.

Speaker 2: 19:32

The love story, just an understanding. So we have good friends in Kenya and we've been there. My husband and I have been there twice out to Capsabet. So we always talk about how can we make them relatable. Their stories are amazing. How can we open American eyes to like not just watching the Boston Marathon, oh, an African one but knowing that that person? Just we can't even comprehend. You know what they've gone through. So we're going to get to that. But I just it gives me goosebumps just thinking about you know what you've done and being able to go over there and all that amazing stuff. But you've had a great journey too. Born Wisconsin College at Syracuse, walked onto the track team. So where did that love of running come from for you?

Speaker 3: 20:13

What a great place to start. Yeah, I'm happy to talk about my own running journey. I come from a family of, I would say, runners and writers. My uncle, bill, was the sports editor at the Los Angeles Times for about 25 years and during that time he was-.

Speaker 2: 20:30

Look at John's face, he's so intrigued. Look at him. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:34

I didn't even get to that in the research, I know. Put that on your bio, joanna.

Speaker 3: 20:39

Well, here's the thing. You guys, this is kind of my second round of podcasts, so in the first round I kind of did my thing and talked about the book and this morning I'm like you know, there's all this other interesting stuff.

Speaker 1: 20:53

So I'm just going to like talk about new stuff.

Speaker 3: 20:54

So is this okay? Oh yeah, okay, okay. So my uncle, bill, was the sports editor at the Los Angeles Times during the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. So I have been sort of a sports nut and an Olympic nut for a long time. My mother was also a sports writer and she was a runner, and this was in like the late 70s, early 1980s when this was kind of a thing for women, as you both well know. So my first book ever on running was the Jeff Galloway book, the 1984 book on running Big book in this house. We're really excited, we. I began running in middle school, kind of following my mom's footsteps, and all the way through high school and college and then started doing marathons after college, as a lot of former college athletes do, and that kind of led to the journey with this book in terms of my love of writing and running.

Speaker 2: 21:51

Well, John loves, he loves all things sports. We both are at our course sports hosts. We staffed at Disney and ESPN World of Sports. John also loves all things college. So Syracuse, what was? Why did you choose there? And what was like life as a walk on like that? Yeah?

Speaker 3: 22:06

yeah, yeah. And what was life as a walk-on like then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I chose Syracuse because I was very interested in a career in journalism, in particular, broadcast journalism, and they have an incredible broadcast journalism program. I should have gone there. So I went to Syracuse, focused on sports and then, yes, walked on the cross-country and track team there.

Speaker 1: 23:40

I will say I had a friend who got her master's degree at Syracuse and she said she loved it, except during the winter. She never saw the sun. It was dark when she went to class, it was dark when she got done. She said it's really a catalyst to get through your degree quickly. That's no offense to Syracuse and it is one of the best broadcast schools in the country. Just check the masthead at any broadcast entity and you'll see a lot of Syracuse people. All right, how did you end up in Denver now as a, as as a sports writer? Was it a job that took you there, or is that something you're like? Wow, colorado is a beautiful place and would be a great place to live.

Speaker 3: 24:15

Yes, a little bit of both. I had an internship at the NBC affiliate between junior and senior year of college. I worked on the sports desk out at the NBC affiliate here in Denver and just kind of fell in love with it. And, being from Wisconsin, a lot of Wisconsinites sort of start traveling West and they stop when they get to the mountains, they say. And so that was kind of another thing that drew me out here, just the mountains and the running. And I had done quite a bit of running. That summer I trained in Boulder and sort of realized this altitude thing is a real thing and I was very into the running scene in those early years this was the mid-90s so it was a very much a no-brainer for me to end up in Colorado.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Well, and, as we said before, you're still there. We are going to get to All In Stride, but you have multiple books, so we like to make sure everybody knows the history, because you've done so much. In your first book, awakening East, it was a very personal account of taking your Chinese-born adopted children back to China to live for a year and discover their roots. How did that come about? That's just beautiful.

Speaker 3: 25:17

Yeah, yeah, this was kind of an interesting journey. Both of our kids were adopted from China as babies I'm sure you have lots of listeners who have experience with international adoption and when they were nine and four we decided we wanted to go back to China to live there for a year to sort of immerse in the culture and get more rooted in the language and just spend some time where they had been born. Just spend some time where they had been born. And so we did that, and during that time I did a lot of blogging. This was when blogging was a real thing, and by the time we got back to the United States I realized there was just this incredible story of our family being over there and all these places that we traveled and we were this kind of odd looking family in a remote part of China, these two white parents with these Chinese kids, and so that turned into my very first book.

Speaker 1: 26:06

And I don't want to belabor time on this book. I'm just very interested because my wife and I were attempting to adopt internationally and it fell through. It's a long story, but when you were over there, as you said, as this odd looking group of folk to be there, how were you received by the Chinese people and what was? What was that experience? I can't imagine, because it just seems like such a there seems to be a curtain in front of a country like that that we we don't really get a lot of information about what life is like. So what was that like for you and how are you received?

Speaker 3: 26:36

They they were oftentimes sort of perplexed and trying to figure out what our story was. And then, once we sort of explained the kids are, you know, born in China and were adopted, were American, they're American now they were very receptive and very warm and welcoming and so it was actually a really positive experience. Now it was very funny because we'd often be out in public and people would come up to the kids and start speaking, you know, rapid Chinese to them, assuming that they spoke Chinese, and at the time they didn't, because, you know, they had been with us since they were one, but I had spent a lot of time in China, so I spoke Chinese. So then I would respond and they were like, well, what is going on here? So it was funny, lots of funny moments.

Speaker 1: 27:20

Wow, that's fascinating.

Speaker 2: 27:22

Maybe we should have our answer the next question in Chinese.

Speaker 1: 27:33

My high school physics teacher shout out to Mr Coleman. Rest in peace. He taught us. Say hello, how are you? And I'm fine, thank you, and a bunch of different languages. All right, again, we're going to get on to the new book, but I have to ask about the second one because again you're intriguing me here. Edge of the Map, story of high-altitude mountaineer Christine Boscoff and more. What about her? Drew you to her story and maybe give people a little bit of background on her.

Speaker 3: 27:55

Yeah, yeah. So this is another sort of fascinating story behind the story. She was one of the most prolific high-altitude mountaineers in the United States. She climbed more 8,000 meter peaks than any American woman. She died in an avalanche in 2006. And at the time she had she'd gone, disappeared with her climbing partner. At the time she disappeared.

Speaker 3: 28:15

I got a call from my mother, who is still in Wisconsin and who, as I mentioned, was a journalist, saying have you heard about this mountaineer? She's gone missing in Western China. She's this incredible, badass woman in this sport that's filled with men. Have you been following the search? And I said no. And I was really interested as to why mom was so interested in this woman. My mom wasn't a mountaineer and she said well, you went to high school with her. So that just took my breath away. And by the time Christine's body was recovered about six months later, my mother had decided to write a book on her because her life was so, absolutely incredible. So my mom began the journey to write that book and during the time she was writing, she was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. So after about 10 years of working on that book, she realized she couldn't continue and she passed the book off to me to finish, and so I finished it for her.

Speaker 2: 29:07

Wow, good question, john. See, you get an amazing answer like that. I think you know Christine's a badass, but I think your mom's a pretty badass too for all that she did. Wow, we could talk about that forever, but I did say as you were talking the whole family.

Speaker 1: 29:21

Let's just talk about your family the whole time. Good gracious.

Speaker 2: 29:25

We're going to get to the book, but the woman who won Berkeley I don't know, maybe there's a book in her you know the first woman to win the Berkeley Marathon. See, she's talking about badass. When you said badass and you said a woman in a sport, there's not a lot of women. That's exactly who I saw in my next.

Speaker 3: 29:40

We're here. We've made it.

Speaker 2: 29:41

We've got a little background. We have a steady base. John, you feel good we're going to dive into the book now.

Speaker 1: 29:45

Okay, I think we have to.

Speaker 2: 29:47

All in Stride, a Journey in Running, courage and the Search for the American Dream. It's the story of professional distance runners and married couple, elvin Kabat and Shadrach Kipcher-Cheer, and so much more. We've got lots of other athletes in it. Samantha Schultz is in it as well. So tell us a little bit about the book and what led you to write it, because there was a point where it was not the book you were originally planning. Is that correct?

Speaker 3: 30:13

Yeah, that is correct. I was looking for my next book after I published Edge of the Map in 2020. And I reached out to an Olympic historian for some ideas and he said have you heard about this program called the World Class Athlete Program? It's part of the US Army. They have a distance running component and I know you're a distance runner, joanna, so you should look into it. You know, the distance running program is based in Colorado Springs, so I was very much interested in this concept of this distance running program as part of the Army. Like it was really baffling to me. So I was initially interested in just kind of writing a book about the program. But then I actually went to Colorado Springs and I met some of these athletes and it was clear that their journeys many of the distance runners were born in Kenya and came to the United States and their journeys that was the real story and that's where I ended up.

Speaker 2: 31:02

For people who don't know you mentioned a little bit and we see a lot of times. If you're watching, you know we're going to be watching Olympic trials this year on the track. You're going to see Armie Singlet. We saw Leonard Career I think was third at the Olympic trials, which I don't know if he's going to get to go to the Olympics. I know I don't think, but we see the shirts that say Army. So can you explain a little bit? When we see this and are watching this summer, we're cheering them on. Tell us about what that means.

Speaker 3: 31:28

Yes, so these are soldiers. First they come into the US Army, they go through basic training and then, if they're interested in competing in their preferred sport there are many sports that encompass the WCAP program If they're interested in competing, they have to meet a certain set of standards, and so for the WCAP athletes who are runners, the standard is very high. So if they meet those very specific time standards, then they can enter the WCAP unit and then they continue to serve as soldiers. But most of their days are spent training to eventually compete in world-class competitions, and ultimately the Olympics is the real goal for most of them.

Speaker 2: 32:07

And we have had many athletes that have gone on and become in the Olympics and do great things. What is their military commitment like Because I know we'll talk about Samantha in a moment, but she's almost done, she's done what is their commitment like for everybody in this WCAP program?

Speaker 3: 32:24

Yes, well, as I said, they have to go through basic training and then they have to maintain regular training with the Army. They have to do, you know, come for regular formations. They have to travel pretty frequently to other units all around the country to talk to other soldiers about physical fitness and keeping in shape and that sort of thing about physical fitness and keeping in shape and that sort of thing. And then they do a lot of kind of promotional outreach to high schools and colleges to get more athletes or potential athletes into the program. So it's actually pretty rigorous what they have to do in terms of just being a soldier, because at any time they could not make those standards and they could be released from the unit and then they are regular soldiers.

Speaker 2: 33:07

And trying to train at the level that a professional athlete, especially in running, requires is a big commitment, but I'm sure that's sort of an edge when it comes to the mental game. All right, we are going to talk about Elvin and Shadrach and their beautiful story, but you have Samantha Schultz, who is another WCAP athlete. What brought her into the narrative?

Speaker 3: 33:26

Oh, she's such an angel and I was so happy to really be focusing on her story as well. She is in the sport of modern pentathlon. She competed in Tokyo at those Olympics and I brought her into the story because I really wanted to sort of look at her journey as a woman who was born in the United States and kind of came up through the regular US sports system middle school, high school, college et cetera, et cetera and contrast that to Elvin's journey, having been born in Kenya and all the things they have faced as women in both endurance athletics and also as women in the military. So that's kind of how the genesis of Sammy's role in the book started.

Speaker 1: 34:13

I was curious as to how receptive Elvin and Shadrach were to you writing their story. I mean Samantha as well but given what they'd gone through from a different culture and they dealt with a lot of the obstacles that living in a new country brings about and, sadly, some of them negative how receptive were they to you telling their story?

Speaker 3: 34:34

It took a while, I would say, for them to sort of understand what the process would entail, because I think they were very used to somebody sitting down with them one time banging out an article for a magazine or something online, then never seeing that person again and I really had to explain no, I'm going to be with you for many years and I will travel to Kenya and spend time in your villages and meet all your family members. And slowly they realized this was a real investment of time on my part and I think at that point they realized it was an opportunity to shed light to some of the misperceptions that people have about foreign born athletes, in particular those from East Africa. So at that point they really jumped in full force and were very receptive.

Speaker 1: 35:19

That's great. Well, let's jump to the beginning of their journey to the United States. They both came over here to run collegiately at Arizona State, I believe for Elvin, and Oklahoma State eventually for Shadrach, though I believe he started elsewhere. Let's just start with that. It's a difficult transition for any student from internationally to come and study in the United States. How difficult were there the early obstacles that they encountered?

Speaker 3: 35:45

Yes, and I will clarify because Elvin will be upset. University of Arizona oh, okay, arizona State, all right.

Speaker 1: 35:52

Sorry, Sorry, that's okay. Sun Devils great party school, Arizona much better academic school and athletically. There, I've said it, there it is.

Speaker 3: 36:01

There you go, wildcat. It was not easy. It was definitely not easy because, you know, first and foremost they had to leave their families and they had wonderful lives in Kenya, and this was something that was very important for me to cover in the book. I think people have this perception about the air quotes American dream and that when athletes arrive in the United States everything is hunky dory. They've left this life behind. That is, you know, challenging or terrible, and that's actually not the case. They had really beautiful lives in Kenya and so coming to the United States was very challenging in terms of just leaving their families. But then, once they got here, adapting to, you know, the weather, the culture, the food was very challenging, in particular for Elvin, and just kind of the way of moving through the world as a US college student was all new for them. So it took a little bit of adjusting, for sure, for both of them.

Speaker 2: 36:57

When you visited them in Kenya. I mean what you're saying I totally understand. We go to Caps but it's a very remote place. The power kept going off when we were there. They're washing dishes outside and these things that are strange to us, but they're not unhappy. You know it's a beautiful place. What did you take away from that, those trips that you got to visit there?

Speaker 3: 37:18

I would say in a word simplicity. The lives that they had there were so much more simple and, in a way, fulfilled than the lives they have here, with the rat race and the cars and the suburban homes and all the stuff and the social media. That was very different from where they grew up, and their lives in Kenya, especially now when they go back, are very focused on getting up, eating, going for their runs, coming back, sleeping and then community spending lots of time talking with family and friends and laughter, and it's just very different, a very different vibe than the lives they have here in the United States. Again, not that their lives here are terrible, but there's a lot that they gave up when they left Kenya, for sure.

Speaker 2: 38:10

And they come on their own, Then you are starting basically from scratch and when runners are running and collegiately, they're focused on that. But you might want to find love and a lot of this book is a love story about them, about Elvin and Shadrach. So, without giving up too much, can you paint us a little picture for our listeners? You know about the love story that will entice them to sort of dive in more to the book.

Speaker 3: 38:34

Yes, I can. So Shadrach came about a year ahead of Elvin, so he was actually here first and she arrived and I think I can tell you without giving too much away that they met on a cross-country course. The cross-country season was ending. They met at pre-nationals in Terre Haute and she was six months in the United States and still very wide-eyed and he had kind of been here for a while. So she really leaned into him as a friend first and foremost and they had sort of this long-distance relationship for a long time that eventually sort of blossomed, I would say.

Speaker 1: 39:15

I wanted to. When they came here for an education, were there plans to stay in the States or was it eventually to go back to Kenya and take what they'd learned? Because I believe Shadrach's degree was in something in construction related. That would obviously be something that would be very helpful in, as we've said, the place that they came from, which is a little more primitive in that respect.

Speaker 3: 39:41

Yeah, Actually, John, that's a really great question. I don't think I've ever actually asked them if, when they came, they intended to stay forever. I actually don't know the answer to that. I think they came with sort of this open-ended idea that they were going to run and get an incredible education and after that I don't know that they necessarily had plans after that degree was in hand. But I think over those four years for each of them they realized the lives that they could have in the United States were in some way superior to the lives they had in Kenya. They both had sets of parents who really were encouraging them and sort of pushing them to do this. They both had siblings who had made lives overseas, so from that point of view it wasn't completely foreign to them to decide to stay in the United States when they did.

Speaker 1: 40:28

Well, and as you and I talked about when we were off air, your lives aren't linear. They move around. We don't. You know, even if we set a certain goal, it's sometimes it takes you in a different direction. Okay, I want to talk about some of the bigotry and things that they, that they dealt with, because you know, we've talked about their early lives here, but now they're world-class athletes, they're in the United States Army, for gosh sakes, but they're finding things, not unlike any people who are known to the wider audience some stuff social media things, message boards that are saying some negative things about them. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I just can't imagine, given the bravery it would take to do what they did and putting together such an impressive life, to have to deal with that at that point.

Speaker 3: 41:27

States, but then the ultimate sacrifice in deciding to join the army. You know they are both ready to die for their country essentially, which is the United States. They consider the United States home now. So, having gone through all of that and then still sort of being out there in the world in the running community and, honestly, constantly being labeled as Kenyan born honestly, constantly being labeled as Kenyan born Again, air quotes Kenyan born tends to come before their names all the time. And they are American. Yes, they're born in Kenya, but the Kenyan born label will follow them forever and ever. And though they're proud of Kenya, they've had a hard time understanding why they can't get past that and why oftentimes they're overlooked in terms of media coverage or interest or sponsorships, which have been more challenging for them to get, and I think that there's a racial component to that. So those things have been very hard to navigate.

Speaker 2: 42:14

I wanted to turn a little bit but stay on that topic because, as I mentioned earlier, like I am passionate about us supporting Kenyan athletes in Kenya but then the Kenyan athletes in America because it does make me sad when I see maybe you know we're leading up to a race coverage and we're only focusing on the US born athletes Like, for example, betsy Sina. She got invited to the press conference at Olympic trials but maybe we didn't get as much information about her. And when we see an Olympic trials and let's say, hillary Boer does amazing and he makes it, oh well, I feel like people don't connect with them or don't want to.

Speaker 2: 42:45

And there's a lot of reasons that can go into why. But how can we, as you? You know you're doing that, but as just John and I podcasters sports personalities bring their stories to life more and help. People want to cheer them on as much as they want to cheer on the blonde haired, blue eyed athletes.

Speaker 3: 43:03

I know oh my gosh, carissa, I wish I had the answer to this question and I think it's really just comes down to telling their stories and creating an environment in which listeners and runners and fans of the sport can understand their stories and understand their journeys and what they've given to be able to compete in this incredible sport. So, I think, just continuing to highlight them and spotlight them and tell stories and write articles and have them on podcasts, I think a lot of times it can be difficult because for a lot of them, english is their second language. Many of them grew up in villages and so they speak sort of a tribal language and then they speak Swahili and then English, but they're fluent in English, but the accent is sometimes very difficult to understand. So getting past that, I understand that that can be hard, but if journalists and the media don't agree to embrace those challenges, I don't think we're going to get very far.

Speaker 2: 43:57

So yeah, and they have amazing stories and I think that if we just got them out there they'd be just as enticing as the other stories that we know and we follow. And I will say Alephine has done an amazing job, I think, of connecting and kind of we all know her. Right and a lot of that's being a mother, and on social media we saw everything that she did between the trials and her Olympics in Tokyo.

Speaker 3: 44:18

So yeah, and some of it, I was going to say, is also their personalities, I think. Culturally they tend to be incredibly humble and not braggadocious, and so and even with Shadrach and Elvin, I've had to kind of nudge them and pull them a little bit more to sort of get out there. That's not what they're normally inclined to do, because their culture is more about lifting each other up as a community rather than self-determination and independence, which is a very American ideal. So there are a lot of challenges.

Speaker 2: 44:50

I stayed with Paris Jepshir to the Olympic champion when we were in Kenya and I kept asking her to do a podcast and I felt bad because I was like bugging her. But I was like I can't stay here and not have you come sit down. But it was, it was a little. I said it's going to be, you know, 20 minutes. Here's what I'm going to ask you. You know I'm not going to deter because they do. I think her English, she was worried about that and then it is that feeling of I'm just, I'm blessed to have this gift. You know they're very religious, you know a lot of them are very religious and it's a gift. But we are, john, that's our mission for the summer. The Olympics are coming. We're going to bring 3-2-1-Go into the cheer squad for all of.

Speaker 1: 45:26

Team USA Okay.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Absolutely. We've talked a lot about Chadrick and Elvin and they have an amazing love story. I also want to talk about Samantha First for those listening. And you said modern pentathlon and they were like I don't know what that means. What is modern pentathlon?

Speaker 3: 45:42

Oh my gosh, Am I going to be able to get all five sports, you guys? Well, that's why I asked you it's fencing, horseback riding, running, shooting and swimming. Did I get them? I think I did, wow, so essentially, it's a 19th century pirate. That is essentially the skills of a 19th century pirate.

Speaker 1: 46:03

Essentially, honestly, I think what they're missing for this event is the wardrobe. I think if the wardrobe trended more towards that, then I think that would be a television show that everyone would watch.

Speaker 2: 46:17

Just a bunch of pirates out there competing. How does one get into that at a young age? I mean, triathlon is that I'm not good at one. Let's try all three, but that's just very specific talents.

Speaker 3: 46:26

It really is. It really is. I mean, I think there's a little bit of luck involved, and in Sammy's case, she had a mother who was a swim coach. She ran cross country, she lived across the street from a stable, so she had a horse, and her dad loved hunting. So there you go. There's four sports that she had by the time she was, you know, 15. And then all she had to do was work in fencing.

Speaker 1: 46:51

That's a pretty narrow background to navigate to, you know, to find people to do that. But it's remarkable and fascinating too that the amount of time that one would have to put in to learn all of those different disciplines.

Speaker 3: 47:02

Yeah, yeah. In terms of the training to be able to work out and get your body ready for all five of those, it's like completely next level, for sure.

Speaker 2: 47:12

Especially when being in the army, as she was, and having to do all of those things, having oh, excuse me, I've got, I've got a fencing lesson today. No, but I do want to talk about her because, just like Shadrick and Alvin had their set of challenges, she had challenges as well, everything from poor coaching, pressure and then something that many women in this endurance community are familiar with an eating disorder. So can you tease a little bit about her and what we learn about her struggles and then her overcoming them?

Speaker 3: 47:41

Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to talk about this. And this was fascinating because, as I mentioned, I brought her in to talk about or to kind of showcase the differences in her experience versus Elvin's, and when I started talking with her she had not really unpeeled the layers of the onion such that she had even identified that she had disordered eating. That actually came up during the process of researching the book and talking with her. So to actually watch her discover this and walk through that was really harrowing.

Speaker 3: 48:10

And you know, as with any disordered eating diagnosis, it didn't come from one specific thing. There had been bad coaching, there had been things in her life that sort of kind of pushed her in this direction. But it really took her coming back from Tokyo and getting to this point where she was deciding if she should do another Olympic rotation, try to go for Paris, and her husband saying I don't think you should do it because you're not healthy. What you're doing is overtraining, we want to have a baby and you haven't had a period in seven years. So all of these things together were kind of a confluence of events that had her finally sit down with a doctor who said in no uncertain terms you have disordered eating and you need to seek treatment for that.

Speaker 1: 48:54

It's just, it's remarkable. We see people competing at a very high level and we just don't know what they've gone through. We assume that it's been you know. Oh, they've got the best coaching from the minute that they started, when they were kids, and you know all of that, and it's generally not the case. Uh, some of your highest achieving athletes overcame the most to get there and I think that's something that drives them.

Speaker 1: 49:12

All right your subjects Elvin Shadrach, samantha. How are they doing right now and do you keep in touch with them on a regular basis?

Speaker 3: 49:19

I do, I do. I'm dear friends with all of them and they're doing pretty well. Shadrach is still racing like crazy. He has moved up to the marathon, so he's on the roads after a long career on the track. And Elvin had a baby about two years ago so she had to go through sort of a postpartum journey, which I cover a little bit at the end of the book. She and Shadrach both raced at the US Olympic Marathon team trials in Orlando in February. Was it February 1st? I was one of the announcers.

Speaker 2: 49:49

I was there with Carrie.

Speaker 1: 49:50

Marissa was one of the announcers, so she'll tell you?

Speaker 2: 49:53

Yes, I had them on my paper. I had a list of married couples, because there was a couple, there was maybe at least two, maybe there were three. Then Megan was pregnant, so we were trying to get in some of those human interest stories.

Speaker 3: 50:08

Yes, yes, yes, oh, that was super special for them, so they were there and now she's about to enter nursing school, so she's probably going to be ramping down her running career. Sammy is doing well she's out of the army, she's gone through very intensive treatment for disordered eating and she's getting back into doing some personal training and coaching of kids. So I'd say they're all in pretty decent places.

Speaker 2: 50:30

I think this book is great because there's so many things we can learn from it and we can take from it that even if we didn't travel from Kenya or maybe we don't have an eating disorder but we have struggles with sort of our mental and ourself, we can learn things from their journeys as well.

Speaker 3: 50:47

I hope so. I think that's the kind of book that I like to read a book that tells a story, a true story, which is best for me, anyway, to be reading something that sounds like fiction but you know it's true, and then also something that teaches you a little bit of trivia that you don't know whether it's about how these athletes were born and raised in Kenya, whether it's about how sponsorships happen or the military commitments they have. So that was something I really sought to do as a writer.

Speaker 1: 51:13

Well, and as somebody who aspired to be a writer and, by the way, that novel I've been working on for 40 years honestly, I'm going to get to that at some point, but I am. Most of the time. When you write something and I know I've just done articles and stuff you learn something about yourself in the writing. What did you learn about yourself in the lessons that you learned from these athletes?

Speaker 3: 51:31

Oh my gosh, what did I learn about myself? I would say, probably the biggest thing I learned is the importance of having sort of an off-ramp, because now I would say Sammy has off-ramped from her career and I'm watching Elvin do it as well, and they're doing it very gracefully still maintaining the love for that sport and finding other ways to sort of be involved in their sport, as opposed to just kind of a traumatic ending where your body kind of breaks down and you just end up having to retire. And that's that which we see in a lot of high performance, especially professional athletes, and I've seen that a lot. Now I'm not comparing myself to professional athlete, but as I age it's been harder and harder to let go. So watching them do that and finding other ways to still stay involved in running as I have, that's been something that I think they've taught me.

Speaker 2: 52:24

That's beautiful. This is an amazing story and I will say for our listeners out there, it's very easy to read. You get sucked in, you want to know what's going on, you want to keep reading, so it's a really great, easy to read book. What is next for you, and do you have another book in mind that you can tell us? I mean probably you do but you can't tell us.

Speaker 3: 52:43

I actually don't, you guys. I don't have another book in mind, so if you have ideas, send them my way. I'm always looking for great sports stories, especially if they involve badass women, so I don't have another book planned. I'm very excited because it's very much looking like my second book is going to be made into a feature film, so I hope that my next project will be working on a movie.

Speaker 2: 53:04

That gave me goosebumps. That's so exciting, and all thanks to mom right.

Speaker 3: 53:08

Yeah, yeah, super exciting.

Speaker 2: 53:10

All right, we have three standard questions that everybody gets at the end of the podcast. We didn't tell you ahead of time, but I believe that you are capable of answering at least one of these. One of these, I know, is easy, okay, okay, johnny.

Speaker 1: 53:24

When you get to a hard place in a run or workout, or even in the middle of writing, something which can be difficult, how do you motivate yourself? What tools do you use to motivate yourself? What tools do you use to?

Speaker 3: 53:34

motivate yourself. Ooh, okay, I do like this one. I am really good at breaking things down into like teeny, tiny parts, whether it's a run or in writing, and I've always done that, because if you think about the end goal and the finish line, oh my gosh, it's overwhelming. I'm going to completely melt down if I think about the book actually being published or the end of a marathon. So I take the approach which I'm sure a lot of your listeners do, that I'm only going to have to make it to that next telephone pole, or I'm only going to have to write 100 words and then I'll see where I go, and inevitably, when you get to that point, you're kind of back on cruise control.

Speaker 2: 54:11

John used the telephone pole. The light pole strategy I think was part of your. John recently did his first 10K and you I think you said you were you were looking at poles or in your training you do that.

Speaker 1: 54:21

No, that, no it's. It's interesting because I've heard that you know, people have a lot of different visualizations in that, but I do, I pick something down, you know, down the way a bit. Whatever it is, you go all right. See if I can go a little bit further Now, as a writer and I believe I'm going to say this is Fitzgerald who said it I'm more the fact that Fitzgerald, I believe, said that you know you're a real writer if you come up with excuses not to write at all times. So I clearly I may be misquoting.

Speaker 2: 54:53

It may not be Fitzgerald but I'm going to go with that and stay with it at this point. All right, you've nailed that one, yes. Next question this is not from any athlete you've interviewed. This is you, because I know you're a runner. Think about any races that you've been at. Is there an inspiring moment that stands out in your mind? That was just something that you saw that stuck with you, that inspired you.

Speaker 3: 55:15

Oh my gosh. Okay, so this question I was ready for and, chrissy, you might have to help me with the name, but it was Megan Christian.

Speaker 2: 55:23

Is it?

Speaker 3: 55:23

Christian. Oh my gosh, seven months pregnant, watching her run that marathon, she made it to what? 18-ish.

Speaker 2: 55:32

Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3: 55:34

She ran trials pregnant.

Speaker 2: 55:36

Her partner was also running and I actually recently saw a clip of someone must have posted it. You know how things get shared and and she was going at it, I mean she was moving, you know she had the big belly and she was moving, yeah, 18 miles.

Speaker 2: 55:51

I think we had two women in Atlanta that were pregnant, that that ran, maybe not as far along, but what women can do, it's remarkable, and I have to give her credit for going to a race. I earned the right to be here and, yes, I'm not going to make this team, but I deserve to race in these trials. And what an amazing story to tell your child.

Speaker 3: 56:11

Yes, why not? So we're just two days off Mother's Day.

Speaker 2: 56:14

So to all the moms out there, well done.

Speaker 3: 56:17

Indeed.

Speaker 1: 56:19

All right. The day two days off Mother's Day, said all the moms out there like well done, indeed. All right, joanna, if people want to follow you and obviously they will I mean your books are available on Amazon or your local bookseller if you're so inclined. But if they want to follow you online, where's the best place to do that?

Speaker 3: 56:40

I'm most often on Instagram and it's Joanna Garten Books, J-O-H-A-N-N-A-G-A-R-T-O-N Books.

Speaker 2: 56:41

That's where I am most often online and where, if people want to buy it, where do you prefer they?

Speaker 3: 56:44

buy it. Oh my gosh, it's the million dollar question.

Speaker 2: 56:46

I know Right.

Speaker 3: 56:47

I know.

Speaker 2: 56:48

I know I have a publisher and they have an answer, but I don't want to say their answer.

Speaker 3: 56:54

I mean, the publisher would love you to buy it at the publisher site, right? Most people end up going to a big box place like Amazon, which is also lovely, because if you buy the book on Amazon, then you can review the book on Amazon and then it elevates the profile of the book, so that's great. You can buy it on my website and as authors, we make a little bit more money if you buy it directly from us, so that's a good option as well. But also independent bookstores oh my gosh there. So you really can't go wrong, okay.

Speaker 1: 57:23

Just get it. Yeah, shout out. We just got one in Winter Garden, florida, after all of our bookstores had gone away for a long time. So, yes, I'm a big fan of small bookstores. Please, please, please, or buy from Joanna and give her more of your money, because she certainly deserves it. The book is All in Stride, a Journey in Running, courage and the Search for the American Dream. Joanna Garten, thank you for spending some time with us on 321.

Speaker 3: 57:45

Go, happy to be here.

Speaker 2: 57:47

All right athletes here's the drill Time to shape up your diet. Carissa, give them the goods. All right, it is grilling season. I don't have a grill. What Wesson doesn't want one? I know.

Speaker 1: 58:01

Monka Grill A monka.

Speaker 2: 58:03

Well, Jeff was supposed to grill for us last weekend but he didn't have any propane. But anyway, that's not the point. I love grilled food, I love the taste of it, but I don't love some aspects of it. But before I dive into the health of grilling, John, your grilling experience.

Speaker 1: 58:20

Oh, we grill a lot. I love grilled vegetables. I think that was first introduced me to some things that I as a kid I wasn't a big fan of, like zucchini and squash and stuff. So yeah, we try to grill, you know, a couple of times a week, usually during the summer, and I have a nice little small but effective grill.

Speaker 2: 58:40

Yeah, I just wasn't. I don't know why he doesn't want one. I don't like really. I don't love chicken and I sometimes don't get along. But I love grilled chicken, a nice thinly pounded out. You know nice grilled chicken, I love that. But I want to just give you guys a few tips because we're about to dive into grilling season on how we can make that healthier.

Speaker 2: 58:56

And the most important one is to marinate your meat Like, yes, this is going to tenderize your meat, yes, this is going to give you flavor, but when you grill those black things that you get the black marks. We don't want a ton of those. I know some of you like your hot dogs. You know you like those things. But what happens is that creates harmful compounds that are heterocyclic amines, we'll just call them HCAs. And then there's also the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. These are what's been linked to an increased risk of cancer. So if you hear people say, oh, grilling can cause cancer, like that's talking about, if you're continually eating the foods with that charred black on it, so to prevent that, marinating helps prevent that. Also, if you're really focused on that, you could grill on top of foil. But just a nice marinade is going to help prevent those formations because of the acidity. The acidity is also going to help break down tough muscle fibers in meat. Tenderizing the meat means you need less added fats and oils for cooking and for eating because it's easier to eat. So all of that is going to support better health. And then marinades using herbs, spices or oils are going to add flavor, but they're going to allow you to get more nutritional value as well. Quick sidebar there was a research study that just came out that said one I believe it was tablespoon of olive oil a day will help prevent the formation of the amyloid plaques in your brains that are linked to Alzheimer's. So marinating the meats in olive oil, all good things. The last thing I was gonna say John already said it when that grill's on, put the vegetables on the grill too, even if it's just in, like a foil packet, you know, or any kind of packet like that seal in the flavor Zucchini's great.

Speaker 2: 1:00:44

When I was little, my mom loved to let me experiment with fruits and vegetables, so I went through like a what can we grill phase one summer. So like literally everything in the supermarket. I wanted to see if we could grill. My mom had a very dirty grill and I just remember grilled carrots. It's like I have a grilled carrot. Yeah, we grilled melon. We tried to grill everything.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

Pop-tarts. Did you try to grow pop-tarts?

Speaker 2: 1:01:05

No, I said fruits and vegetables.

Speaker 1: 1:01:07

Oh, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

Like watermelon peaches carrots.

Speaker 1: 1:01:10

You said you tried to grill everything in the store.

Speaker 2: 1:01:11

Everything in the produce section. So that is the tip to get grilling. If you're grilling this summer, tag us. Maybe you'll inspire Weston to get over his. Maybe it's a grillophobia, or maybe it's just a clutter phobia putting something else on our back porch. But if you want to shape up your nutrition this summer, as a registered dietitian I can help you do that with my healthier you course options. Go to gallowaycoursecom. We've got two different options for you the full 12-week course. It's a video course. It's online with a year of chats. Or the seminar series, which is a year of chats and four meal plans. Use the code podcast to save Athletes. Listen up. It's mail call time.

Speaker 1: 1:01:51

Announcer free present All right Sarge. Today we have a question about participating in a night race Run. Disney changed the proof of time requirement to two hours and 30 minutes for a half, which is great, but unfortunately they moved up the timeline for submission for the marathon weekend from a fall date to July 1st by the way, day before my birthday still a good period of shopping time before that. I have a proof of time, but my husband does not. Had we known the new 2.30 deadline, we would not have goofed around as much at Disneyland. See, you knew it would come back to bite you. We missed by one minute and 22 seconds.

Speaker 3: 1:02:31

That's heartbreaking.

Speaker 1: 1:02:32

Anyway, we found a race where we can get a new proof of time. However, it is a night race. Okay, now, this is interesting, carissa, because we have a lot of people wishing we would do more night races. I've never run a night race before and I do all my training and runs in the morning. Any advice on how to prepare what to eat during the day, how to hydrate enough, but not too much? It'll probably be quite warm, since it's in June, so I'd love any help you can give so that we can help him get a new proof of time.

Speaker 2: 1:03:00

Yes, and I want to help you and there's a lot of things to do there. So, first of all, I know you say you do most of your runs in the morning. Make sure you give yourself enough time to recover. But I would do a distance of maybe 60% of what you're planning to do at night and make it be a run that's over an hour. So you have to take a nutrition and then time it like you would be doing the race Time back everything you're eating like you would be doing the race. So get a piece of paper out. The race starts at this time. Normally I would eat breakfast at this time. So just do that math.

Speaker 2: 1:03:31

Don't change your meal. You can get up in the morning, have a normal breakfast very bland lunch meaning, just maybe like rice, a protein, not even any vegetables or bread, something you're used to eating no fat, no fiber. And then, if it was me, I would have my same race breakfast just at night, because I'm used to having that. I know how to run on that. Rest during the day, sit on that couch as much as you can I don't know if you have kids but really rest during the day, because I think that's also the problem with a night race. We've been up, we've been moving around and then hydrate, hydrate, hydrate.

Speaker 2: 1:04:05

Because if you're say, in June it's going to be pretty warm, when it's warm you have to slow your pace Because you're aiming for a certain time. That's going to add a little bit of stress. So make sure you're having an electrolyte two days before electrolytes that morning. Take an electrolyte drink with you, have that about maybe four to six ounces, 45 minutes before the start and then, when you start the race, take into account the temperature. Do not attempt to run super fast in the beginning. We never want to do that. But because you're thinking of a POT, I'm afraid you're going to, I'm going to bank some time, but then the heat's just going to catch up to you and it's going to hit you like a brick wall in a way that it doesn't hit you in a morning race. Yes, morning races can get hot and humid, but it may not be the same thing. So really trust your training and trust that, or even write on Pace and you can get there and then let us know how it goes.

Speaker 1: 1:04:58

Yeah, definitely want to know.

Speaker 2: 1:05:00

All right, well, guys. Thank you for listening. Thank you Joanna for her book All In Stride. You guys please check it out. Follow them on social media. Give them a little. 3, 2, 1, go and we'll see you real soon. Bye-bye. 3, 2, 1, go.