Honeycrisp Ventures

Hearing from Ben Sietsema at Honeycrisp Ventures.

Transcript

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Oh, I hope.

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Chris Prins
Hello, this is Chris Burns with our commercial real estate company. Max Grover. Today we are joined with join with us Ben SIETSEMA for Honeycrisp Ventures. And today we're just going to talk with Ben kind of what his career path looks like and where he's been, where he's headed, and kind of just some of his advice throughout his years and expertise.

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Chris Prins
Thank you, Ben, for being part of the podcast and just kind of started out. It'd be great to just hear your story where you grew up and how you got into commercial real estate.

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Ben Sietsema
Sure. Thanks, guys, for having me. So exciting.

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Max Grover
Yeah, we got the video going. Don't worry. It's not we're not posting the video. And Chris and I don't have the face for that. You by Ben kind of done.

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Chris Prins
Ben, my big question for video release.

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Ben Sietsema
Now definitely is for like, Well, yeah, thanks for having me on. Quick background on me. Born and raised in in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I'm a product of North Point Christian High School and diploma from Calvin College after bouncing around a few different places. But lucky enough, I graduated from Calvin. But I'm kind of one of the more interesting things about my background is just that I.

00;01;29;29 - 00;01;55;23
Ben Sietsema
I was born and raised on an apple orchard, which kind of plays into the name of my company a little bit. But it also opened my eyes to commercial real estate in that what I was in middle school, my dad, my parents had decided to look at selling a portion of the apple orchard to developers, and that was really kind of what opened my eyes to the development world.

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Chris Prins
And just remind the people, where was that? Yeah, pretty developed now. Yeah, looks a little different.

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Ben Sietsema
It was on the corner of Map in the East Valley, so my parents owned about 35 acres on each side of the line. So the first development was with the family. Mueller Realty Yeah, it's with the movie theater there. And so I remember as a kid going to all the municipality meetings in advocating for the rezoning and there was an annex involved and all of that kind of stuff.

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Ben Sietsema
So that was interesting. And my dad, I think looking back on it was pretty wise. You know, he, he he knew what he didn't know. Yeah, that makes sense. And so he was more than willing to hire the right people to help get the deal done and was willing to have me and my brother sit in on a lot of the meetings with the attorneys and try to flush the deal out.

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Ben Sietsema
I was 12, 13 years old. I had no business sitting in that meeting.

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Max Grover
Where you sit. Were you in a suit.

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Chris Prins
Or blue jeans.

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Max Grover
Like I was in golf and tacked on the exact. Yes, sorry, that said, yeah, that's cool.

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Ben Sietsema
And kind of sitting in the corner and kind of just listening. And so looking back, I think that was a pretty cool thing. So my dad was willing to do die and so learned a lot through that. And then a couple of years later, the other side was was sold, which turned out to be a little bit longer of a story.

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Chris Prins
But it.

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Ben Sietsema
Worked out well.

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Max Grover
It's got to be weird to drive by that area now and see what it looks like and how today. It's like one of the most sought after retail areas and Maine and Maine but before it was apple orchard.

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Ben Sietsema
Yeah, yeah. Even then they did w there up until a couple months ago they actually had a picture of my great grandfather up there in front of his truck, in front of the original store that was there, which is always kind of cool to go in there. I was cool my boys and point that out to them. And so now of course they remodel, get rid of it.

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Ben Sietsema
But, but yeah, just a cool thing to kind of drive by and show boys, Hey, that's where I.

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Max Grover
That's the.

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Chris Prins
Homebuilder. Yes.

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Max Grover
You guys still have farmland then too. And AG and. Yeah, a.

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Ben Sietsema
Little bit, yeah. My dad after that have continued to have a small farm over there. Yeah, Yeah. Also, Yeah. But more of a passion.

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Max Grover
A hobby farm. Yeah. So how do you find.

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Ben Sietsema
Anybody out there thinking they want to get into the Apple business?

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Chris Prins
Don't know, but learned your lesson. Yeah. You like.

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Max Grover
Commercial real estate better than Apple so.

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Ben Sietsema
Far?

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Max Grover
I think.

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Chris Prins
So. That's cool. So you're 13 years old, sitting in these meetings. At what point did you say, okay, I want to dabble into this commercial real estate thing? And what did that look like or what was that always your career path?

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Ben Sietsema
Yeah. No, I you know, I think it was kind of interesting. I found it interesting. And then as the years went on, it's like, okay, I start watching this fixer upper show, Fixer upper HGTV.

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Max Grover
Yeah.

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Chris Prins
You think, Oh, that's cool.

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Ben Sietsema
I love it. I love how they're using creativity and and buying, you know, these properties, fixing up and selling, adding value. And then, you know, I was I'm more of a numbers guy then. And then probably what I am. But I know that part of it was really interesting to me. There's legal components of what I do today that I find interesting.

00;05;34;19 - 00;05;55;19
Ben Sietsema
And then obviously getting to know people in their businesses and their stories in the sales perspective. So there's a lot of those things that kind of came together and I realized that it was pretty interesting. So as I was going through college, it was like, okay, well, either on this commercial real estate thing or I want to do like this sports management thing.

00;05;55;26 - 00;06;07;26
Ben Sietsema
And when I really boil it down, it's like, you know, do ticket sales and concessions for 25 years. And I hope to then get a have a job in the front office, have some organization.

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Chris Prins
And show up to the job, to the arena 8 a.m. and don't leave to midnight.

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Max Grover
Yeah, that's a tough grind. That's a that world, is it. So everyone thinks it's so cool and it is very cool, but it is a lot of hours and time away from the family, you know, I know hockey more than anything, but it's like 80 games a year and you're out of you're out of you're not at home for, you know, 40 of those games.

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Max Grover
You're out of town. And even when you're home, you're cutting video and making sure things are going well. And if you're back office, same type of thing, you're out scouting and that it's yeah, it's intense. That's very intense world. That would be fun though.

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Ben Sietsema
Yeah. So I think would be fun with real estate around. Yeah.

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Max Grover
Is that a good thing?

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Chris Prins
So it's okay. I just survive. It doesn't drive it. I mean, through those of years, right?

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Max Grover
If you do well enough, maybe you could buy a team someday, right?

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Ben Sietsema
Yeah. I don't think.

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Max Grover
Inserting yourself in this game.

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Ben Sietsema
Which is by more realistic. Yeah.

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Max Grover
Yeah. Little less has a lot more hands off. Once it's done, once it's done right, theoretically, a little bit more hands free than that and can travel and do that type of thing. But as opposed to the sports team day in, day out.

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Ben Sietsema
That but maybe other than the arena.

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Chris Prins
Yeah yeah yeah. Seats most.

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Max Grover
That's awesome. Did you play sports in. Is that where.

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Ben Sietsema
I did Yeah. Yeah. I played baseball in college at Calvin. I did okay. Yeah, I finished up at Calvin. Um, I played at GRC before that. Okay. Yeah, I've done JUCO. Yeah.

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Max Grover
What position were you? Pitcher.

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Ben Sietsema
I was pitcher, Yeah.

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Max Grover
Last year.

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Ben Sietsema
Unfortunately, I was right. So that's why I'm sitting here talking to you now.

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Chris Prins
It's spring training. Well, it was.

00;08;06;10 - 00;08;11;02
Max Grover
Yeah. What about maybe a little better. What was your throw? Was a fastball. Curveball?

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Ben Sietsema
Yeah. Well, I best pitch was. Yeah, I a breaking ball got me through.

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Chris Prins
College, you know. And how has that made your way through, Calvin?

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Ben Sietsema
Yeah, I was a mid eighties. Maybe I touch maybe upper eighties occasion, but it's really that's fun.

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Max Grover
So then you play baseball through college is but I'm assuming that was your main focus or was school your main focus or both? Yeah, well, you're a good thing. Natalie.

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Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Ben Sietsema
Just kidding you. No. Yeah. Baseball is my main, main focus. And then, you know, occasional studying and. But then, you know, I graduated then, and I just knew I wanted to be in the commercial real estate. And so that was in 2010. And so, as you can imagine, I mean, just tons of opportunities out there. Yeah, everybody was pretty much licking their wounds from the recession.

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Max Grover
Trying to figure out of it. And it's so funny because everyone now today, like hindsight's 2020, it's like, oh, we should have been behind everything and levered ourselves up like crazy. And it's like, Yeah, but everyone in 2000, no one knew if it was going to come back or if that was a permanent adjustment. Appraisals to make sure.

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Max Grover
And where are you going to get the money? Yeah, exactly.

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Ben Sietsema
Yeah, money. But oh yeah, I look back at some of those deals that so early on and it's like, Oh man, that's a homerun. So to back up a little bit and I graduated and I was interviewing for jobs and mostly the interviews were just a nice courtesy thing. No one was hiring. So I just said simply the interview.

00;09;56;03 - 00;10;28;05
Ben Sietsema
And so there a couple of months went by. I ended up I did buy a house and fix it up and use money from my parents to do that. And then one my brother in law's gave me a job working in some of apartments that he was managing. So I was cleaning apartments and stuff like that. And then eventually the phone rang and a couple guys that were working at Colliers at the time kind of brought me in for an interview.

00;10;28;05 - 00;10;49;27
Ben Sietsema
And long story short, a guy named Duke, Sue Ann, and a guy named John Piper asked me to join them as kind of their junior break. So they were just coming out of the recession. They were starting to see some good things happening. I think they kind of realized that a team approach would be beneficial on the brokerage side.

00;10;50;02 - 00;11;03;05
Ben Sietsema
So I took a job with those guys and actually now a little funny story. Duke called and he offered me, I don't know, there was some ridiculously low amount of money and they told me.

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Chris Prins
Oh my gosh, you should try it.

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Ben Sietsema
And I think you're exactly right. Yeah. And so I don't know. I don't know exactly the reason, but they called back later and they they doubled the price up there.

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Chris Prins
Absolutely.

00;11;16;18 - 00;11;20;20
Ben Sietsema
On their waiting to the job. So maybe I gained.

00;11;20;20 - 00;11;22;12
Chris Prins
The most experience, right? Yeah.

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Ben Sietsema
And Tommy's back from that same note. That was the first offer. But in more seriousness, it was an awesome opportunity. I was able to learn from those guys. I'm going to say New York kind of in the prime, and they still are in the prime of the Kuyper Express.

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Max Grover
I mean, do you still in the background doing big deals and Kuyper obviously on the front line pushing has a lot of stuff in West Michigan in the industrial market.

00;11;49;14 - 00;11;51;03
Ben Sietsema
So yeah, Yeah. So I just that's.

00;11;51;03 - 00;11;52;12
Max Grover
Good people to be around.

00;11;52;16 - 00;12;13;26
Ben Sietsema
Absolutely. I some really experiences with them meetings again that I had no business sitting in there was able just to kind of see what happens in those boardrooms and how do people talk and interact. What kind of questions do they ask, what kind of information do they need? How do you you know, what what does it mean to act professional in those types of meetings and things like that?

00;12;13;26 - 00;12;35;09
Ben Sietsema
And so I take all my notes, we leave the meeting, I recap with our guys. What do we you know, do we need to get to know these guys and gals to be prepared for the next meeting and have just tried to be in the background and help support them. And, and yeah, it was really an awesome, awesome couple of years as they just found those guys.

00;12;35;09 - 00;12;55;02
Chris Prins
Well, I saw remember that's where I met you originally. So I think I started as an intern at Colliers. I forget 2013 or 2014 and I remember sitting in the car with you and driving through and doing cold calling and industrial buildings and just hitting up as many buildings as possible. And that's kind of where I learned some point once I transitioned into retail, I started doing that too.

00;12;55;02 - 00;13;10;26
Chris Prins
But one of the funny stories I will never forget is I don't even know where we were in the market, but I remember walking into a front lobby and there was a cute receptionist I was with, and I'm like, she kind of caught my attention. So we leave and we're back in our chat and he's like, We should go ask for her number or something.

00;13;10;28 - 00;13;34;26
Chris Prins
I mean, he's like, he's like, worst case, if it doesn't work out, I'll go buy you a six pack of beer or whatever. And I'm like, Okay, I have nothing to lose on this. And so I walk in the building again, ask for a phone number. Long story short, she's like, I have a boyfriend. I'm like, I come out then and I a couple of hours later, she'll back up to the Caleres office and I remember our barking girl at the time was like, there was just people running rampant throughout the office.

00;13;34;26 - 00;13;53;21
Chris Prins
Everyone's up, sirens panicking because I saw Ben go out cold calling and the front receptionist was actually best friends with our marketing girl and text and said, Hey, some guy from college just asked for my number on my phone and they thought it was bad the entire time. And I still remember I think I got chewed out a little bit by Red Kaiser.

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Chris Prins
So that's that's my little Kaiser story. But I think I've sold that six pack packets. So I am very, very close to everybody.

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Max Grover
I think too, by the way.

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Ben Sietsema
It's a 30.

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Chris Prins
Pounds. Yeah, exactly.

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Max Grover
I didn't even work with Kaiser. I think I've gotten ripped by him a couple of times.

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Chris Prins
But now it's.

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Max Grover
Amazing. That's like, that's so good.

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Chris Prins
That's. That's why I like, respected you. Time just getting out, you know? Now, it's not that. The cold. The cold? Yeah, you.

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Ben Sietsema
Know, I do.

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Max Grover
You have to be fearless, though, right? The chances are, whether it's Chris trying to pick up a girl, it's definitely going to be a no. Yeah, but from the cold calling perspective that, like, you have to be fair, you have to be fearless. You have to ask the question. And if you don't, you're never going to hear the answer you want to hear if you don't ask the question.

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Ben Sietsema
So yeah, yeah, you got to put on a little armor.

00;14;52;23 - 00;14;56;04
Max Grover
Have fun with it a little bit. You got to have fun with it. Is it.

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Ben Sietsema
Humor? Yeah. Yeah. I remember just coming home and talking with my wife, just like I just got beat up again today at once, you know? And ultimately, that was part of the reason why I shifted, you know, what I was doing, that, you know, some people could do that. And it's energy providing joy, giving to them. That was not the case.

00;15;20;16 - 00;15;56;26
Ben Sietsema
But in Duke and Jon's wisdom, you know, they that that was a requirement. They or I need to physically go door to door see that different industrial park, see the buildings, you know, meet the people and do that. And, you know, it took a while. But I remember sitting in those meetings my first couple of weeks, and these guys, you know, they're now some of the biggest names in the industrial world, along with John know they they would just refer to these buildings, my address and then they would write it.

00;15;56;28 - 00;16;17;29
Ben Sietsema
And I was like, that's amazing. They do that. Do they remember from ten years ago when they had a listing and you know, what the career heights were and how many docs were there and all that kind of stuff. What power was then It took me a while that I started being able to figure that out too. And I think that was because in part I was going to start doing that.

00;16;18;06 - 00;16;18;18
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, you.

00;16;18;18 - 00;16;37;17
Max Grover
Know, it feels so overwhelming when you first jump into the market and, you know, and everyone has this expectation that you're going to know every project and every hot area and what's going on and this. And so you get peppered with questions and you're like, it seems daunting to try and learn all these side streets and courts and whatever it might be.

00;16;37;17 - 00;16;48;23
Max Grover
But eventually, eventually, like you said, yeah, it just starts coming like second nature, like the city almost shrinks a little bit is like, Oh yeah, and I'm I'm not quite the Duke sue in status.

00;16;48;23 - 00;16;49;18
Chris Prins
Or China type of.

00;16;49;19 - 00;16;52;12
Max Grover
Status. And I put myself and.

00;16;52;14 - 00;16;52;19
Chris Prins
I.

00;16;52;19 - 00;17;24;29
Max Grover
Do have more here than Duke that's about all I have more of the Duke. But yeah the whole city seems so much shrink and it just it's it is it becomes a lot easier. It's it's a lot of fun. The addiction to you know to know each industrial court and who the big users or why that area might be so hot like why is the Walker area growing like crazy versus you know, some of these like maybe a Roger B that it's it's established in news.

00;17;24;29 - 00;17;27;11
Max Grover
But why isn't that having the same type.

00;17;27;11 - 00;17;29;02
Chris Prins
Of.

00;17;29;05 - 00;17;40;04
Max Grover
Why isn't there the same type of activity in that type and drive to be on Roger B versus Walker and that type of thing. And that's that's where that's where you bring the value ban.

00;17;40;07 - 00;17;42;18
Chris Prins
Location, location, location.

00;17;42;18 - 00;17;51;10
Max Grover
And kind of brings us into like the next part of the next phase. So you did that for you were in broke street brokerage for how long.

00;17;51;13 - 00;18;03;13
Ben Sietsema
John do and in Collier's man I'm going to say three and a half four years. Three more years. Yeah, I'll leave it at that. Yeah.

00;18;03;15 - 00;18;12;04
Max Grover
34 years at Collier's. Yeah. And doing all almost all industrial at that point. Yeah. I mean chasing industrial. Yeah.

00;18;12;04 - 00;18;20;15
Ben Sietsema
I mean of minor crossover to industrial sales, but typically we didn't get to, I didn't get super. Yeah. But yeah.

00;18;20;22 - 00;18;31;23
Max Grover
So that was the world that you were learning and leaning into and any reason why industrial over like retail or office.

00;18;31;25 - 00;18;54;15
Ben Sietsema
No. I mean other than it being a divine play and I guess that was that. So as market cycles work, I graduated just coming out of the recession and industrial property. I see the architect of that first. Yeah. So it just so happened that, you know, John Duke, we're seeing a little bit of that business. You know, come their way.

00;18;54;15 - 00;19;00;11
Ben Sietsema
And they that was really what led me. I mean, I started on day one. I didn't know what a doctor was.

00;19;00;13 - 00;19;02;04
Chris Prins
Yeah, I didn't know at.

00;19;02;04 - 00;19;04;13
Ben Sietsema
Grade level before and I didn't.

00;19;04;15 - 00;19;07;10
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah, sure.

00;19;07;11 - 00;19;08;21
Ben Sietsema
Seems like there's a lot.

00;19;08;23 - 00;19;12;15
Max Grover
They've got to like they have lights. Yeah.

00;19;12;17 - 00;19;14;10
Chris Prins
That's all different than residential.

00;19;14;12 - 00;19;34;12
Ben Sietsema
Exactly. Yeah. So you know, but over time I really had a desire to understand more about property ownership, to kind of see the different aspect of the property cycle, really, rather than just, okay, hey, you know, brokerage. You're saying there's this need, here's the solution. Let's bring those things together.

00;19;34;12 - 00;19;35;03
Max Grover
Yeah.

00;19;35;05 - 00;20;03;22
Ben Sietsema
All right, done. Deal. Let's let's work on connection. I knew long term that I had an interest in owning buildings and so I just wanted to see. Okay, so everything was at work, like as far as, you know, municipal approvals, the capital stack, property marriage and asset management. You know, this this deal we're looking at here, what does that mean for this building ten years from now?

00;20;03;25 - 00;20;34;09
Ben Sietsema
And I'm just, you know, the whole idea of paying down debt. Yeah. And while the value is appreciating. So yeah, after a couple of years, I just you know, because I had a desire to learn more about that, I started talking with and kind of trying to make some connections with my friends over at Rockford Construction. So I was able to get lunch with him and tell him what I was thinking.

00;20;34;09 - 00;21;01;29
Ben Sietsema
And I guess he was intrigued. And so we stayed in touch. Him and I bug him for a job every every month or so. You know, he got a job. Javier got a job. Yeah. And so then eventually called me and said, Hey, I think I think I think we have an opportunity for you. And what that actually turned out to be part of the vagaries and was actually amplified by our project that I mean coming out of that.

00;21;02;02 - 00;21;15;21
Ben Sietsema
So my job I started there had to like some of the acquisitions on the front end of what became amplified. GR But then also I guess worked on some of their general development stuff.

00;21;15;24 - 00;21;46;15
Max Grover
So then that that you almost kind of were intrigued by that. I'm assuming based on like you're seeing one specific part of the real estate transaction through the brokerage of like finding buyers and sellers or landlords and tenants. And how, how does the rest of the project come together? And that's where the draw to the Rockford construction piece or it's like the construction component which is such a big component in in all three estate, all of real estate, especially the development side obviously.

00;21;46;15 - 00;21;51;02
Max Grover
But pulling started to pull all that picture together. Is that kind of the draw?

00;21;51;03 - 00;22;15;04
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, definitely a big part of it. As far as developing trucks, I mean, there's a lot of other parts of it too that you don't think about and just, you know, raising equity, crapping accountable to investors. And what does that reporting look like? You know, what's what's what's a reasonable return? What kind of what's the risk profile of great how, you know, defining how do I add value?

00;22;15;04 - 00;22;25;16
Ben Sietsema
And so, I mean, just just the whole the whole cycle there. And so that's what I was pretty intrigued and just had a desire to slowly fill a portfolio.

00;22;25;16 - 00;22;56;02
Max Grover
And because in the end, intrigue is because you're driving or walking towards the eventual ownership side as opposed to just the straight brokerage side, it's like trying to get that full picture of the of the financing to raise and getting investors and raising money to the property management side and all those different pieces that I don't think everyone realizes all the pieces that go into just making one small deal go, let alone a.

00;22;56;02 - 00;22;58;07
Ben Sietsema
Big amount of work. We don't make enough money.

00;22;58;09 - 00;23;03;20
Chris Prins
Yeah, he it's a tough living. It's awesome because yeah.

00;23;03;23 - 00;23;11;16
Max Grover
You have you have like all 50 people that are listening to the podcast right now, and they're all brokers. They're like, You're right, we don't make enough.

00;23;11;16 - 00;23;22;15
Chris Prins
Money to sit here and say, Right, okay, just the idea. Yeah, the brokers just get their 3% right, you know?

00;23;22;15 - 00;23;56;01
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, No, you're exactly right. I'm just kind of seeing that it and I'm the type of personality that, like, I want to make sure I've done something a few times before I go to someone else and say, Hey, I got this great idea. I could do this. So I being at Rockford and doing that, I again, like such an awesome place for me to be and learn and grow and just again, that the deals that I was exposed to so things that we call the office like a guy in his late twenties has no business being apart of stuff.

00;23;56;01 - 00;24;11;06
Ben Sietsema
But for some reason I did it, you know and being exposed to awesome he is is a visionary. He's he's just just an awesome blend of creativity and drive. You know.

00;24;11;08 - 00;24;23;09
Max Grover
How much and this is I really don't know but outsider's perspective like how much is he really like, involved on the project side and the development side is that it is pretty much is focus at this point is.

00;24;23;09 - 00;24;33;10
Ben Sietsema
Yeah yeah yeah when I was there and I imagine it's still very similar but yeah, you're not doing something there without, without Mike knowing. He's done.

00;24;33;16 - 00;24;35;26
Max Grover
You did your job. Yeah.

00;24;35;28 - 00;24;47;12
Chris Prins
So were you involved at all with what happened on Bridge Street of the activity surrounding kind of West Side, Grand Rapids? Because obviously you look back ten years ago, that side of the bridge looks a whole lot different than it does today.

00;24;47;12 - 00;25;08;28
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I certainly can't take a lot of credit for that. You know, that was really, you know, when gas so like for us for the time of that Kurt Casper, he is the guy who's kind of behind the scenes. I don't think you get as much credit as you probably shouldn't but he he's amazing guy.

00;25;09;00 - 00;25;32;24
Ben Sietsema
You know what which kind of leads and the next chapter of my life, if you will, is is a lot of that stuff on Bridge Street was happening I was actually more drawn to the stuff like that next block or two away. Yeah. So I was like, man, there's a bunch of buildings around here that are undervalued and just need some TLC.

00;25;32;27 - 00;25;57;02
Ben Sietsema
And with all the excitement on Bridge Street, like, there's some real opportunities here with these existing buildings. So and it just kind of so happened I was I was overseeing them lot of our downtown office portfolio at that point in time. One of the things that were like in the Cherry Street portfolio that they had done a decade before and then the new opportunities where we looked at things up along.

00;25;57;02 - 00;26;08;26
Ben Sietsema
SEWARD Yeah, and elsewhere. And so I can't take much credit for what Rockford was able to do on Bridge Street, which is awesome. I mean, I had a front row seat to it. I just I can't take it.

00;26;08;29 - 00;26;23;17
Max Grover
You still get to watch and learn and see how they're doing it. And you get to see it from start to finish and behind the scenes of how much time and effort and yeah, ups and downs on each one of those projects are is Yeah. So that helps.

00;26;23;17 - 00;26;55;10
Ben Sietsema
Yeah that's a lot. I that's it's just it's a lot of work years and years and years of work so but yeah I was always just a little more drawn to kind of the value out of something that was existing and just kind of a little creative repositioning of the asset. And that's really kind of what led me to, you know, after five or six years at Rockford saying, okay, I think I think I'd like to try this in a little different way and with a little different property type.

00;26;55;10 - 00;27;19;24
Ben Sietsema
We didn't do a lot of the industrial property work when I was at Rockford, so I really had a desire to get back to that. You know, I kind of saw that kind of backbone of of Westminster again is manufacturing and industrial products. I was pretty excited about the opportunity there that really created that to pursue a niche in the industrial side of things.

00;27;19;29 - 00;27;29;13
Max Grover
MM So then how long, how long were you at Rockford Construction? So 5 to 6 years.

00;27;29;13 - 00;27;32;22
Chris Prins
And really clear. Yeah, that's right. If I'm going to you.

00;27;32;25 - 00;27;35;29
Max Grover
We're not going to get the fact checker to Czechoslovakia. I don't think.

00;27;36;05 - 00;27;37;20
Ben Sietsema
I got two kids on.

00;27;37;22 - 00;27;38;09
Chris Prins
How.

00;27;38;12 - 00;27;38;27
Ben Sietsema
To measure.

00;27;38;27 - 00;27;42;00
Chris Prins
My kids.

00;27;42;02 - 00;27;46;02
Ben Sietsema
At that stage. That mom had two kids, maybe three.

00;27;46;05 - 00;27;49;27
Max Grover
Okay. How many kids you have now? Four. Okay. I'm in the same boat.

00;27;50;02 - 00;27;51;16
Ben Sietsema
Four boys. Okay.

00;27;51;20 - 00;27;53;16
Max Grover
What are you have four boys?

00;27;53;19 - 00;27;57;27
Chris Prins
Nice coast, former basketball team, I guess. One more time. Yeah.

00;27;57;29 - 00;28;07;16
Max Grover
I grew up with four. I have four brothers. So there's five of us. All about a year apart. So I know that world a little bit. How? What is the ages of the kids?

00;28;07;19 - 00;28;17;23
Ben Sietsema
So we have nine, seven, six and one and a half year old. I told him I was going to be on podcasts and they they want this and they thought they were thinking like Joe Rogan.

00;28;17;23 - 00;28;22;21
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to tell me differently. It's the same status.

00;28;22;21 - 00;28;26;01
Max Grover
Yeah, we get about the same amount of listeners, I think. Yeah, I want.

00;28;26;01 - 00;28;27;13
Chris Prins
More hear.

00;28;27;16 - 00;28;39;02
Max Grover
Exactly seven, ten or zero. Goodness, that's cool. But yeah, so you're kind of in the thick of sports and all that. Now to.

00;28;39;05 - 00;28;41;01
Ben Sietsema
Just start.

00;28;41;04 - 00;28;53;20
Max Grover
On top of what you're doing in what we're kind of progressing to and what you're doing now. And was it from Rockford then? What was the next step after Rockford Construction?

00;28;53;20 - 00;29;18;09
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, so I after Rockford, it was Honeycrisp Ventures. I just kind of came up with this idea. I want to I wanted to have a small but nimble, efficient firm that we could make decisions quickly and with a focus. I mean, I don't want to say I don't want to sound like the only thing we do is it's industrial property.

00;29;18;09 - 00;29;26;21
Ben Sietsema
We have some office buildings in the portfolio. Love to do small type family, but we've really been we've seen a lot of success in the industrial world.

00;29;26;21 - 00;29;47;27
Max Grover
So it's been the industrial I mean really from that time that you started in brokerage in ten to now, industrials really led the way and multifamily right behind it as far as and maybe lockstep multifamily right there with it. So it makes sense.

00;29;47;27 - 00;29;59;11
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. I mean, going back to what we were touching on earlier is like I remember getting in to our in the brokerage call it 2010.

00;29;59;13 - 00;30;02;23
Max Grover
35 bucks a square foot.

00;30;02;25 - 00;30;06;19
Chris Prins
A beautiful building, 35 bucks a square foot.

00;30;06;22 - 00;30;15;12
Ben Sietsema
And you just think about that. I mean, that's a bit of the view for real estate. But I mean, just think about that stuff. So take or take whatever I feel.

00;30;15;12 - 00;30;37;08
Max Grover
I feel like one. And that was about the same time that I got into and it was like 35 bucks a square foot. And then either add a little bit or take away a little bit depending on the property. Yeah. Now, I mean, yeah, 100 bucks a square foot maybe. Like hopefully I think based on like existing product and stuff, it's Yeah, yeah.

00;30;37;09 - 00;30;38;08
Max Grover
So ten years.

00;30;38;08 - 00;31;07;20
Ben Sietsema
If you think about it. So Yeah. So sure, there are countless examples out there of people that were able to buy that building for every 35 square foot. Go find the tenant a note re 53 box at that time. Yeah. So fast forward that you ten years from now they've made with a whatever and 50% cash on cash over those years and now they've got the building that's actually worth three times more than what they bought.

00;31;07;23 - 00;31;08;02
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;31;08;03 - 00;31;09;16
Max Grover
Or even.

00;31;09;18 - 00;31;12;00
Ben Sietsema
Leased it out for seven bucks or.

00;31;12;05 - 00;31;43;19
Max Grover
Even like, you know, some of the clients I've worked with and stuff where like they took the risk in ten, 11, 12 and you know, to maybe start a business or take a small shot on their first real estate thing and then it grew and they were able to sell their building because of that. You know, they have equity in it and then they can roll it into a bigger bill and now they're on their third, their third building maybe at that point of just using equity to grow into each new building and keeping pace that way.

00;31;43;19 - 00;31;44;26
Ben Sietsema
Yeah.

00;31;44;28 - 00;31;47;09
Max Grover
But do you think it's keeps going?

00;31;47;11 - 00;31;52;15
Chris Prins
Oh, I mean, you know, we can wait on.

00;31;52;18 - 00;31;53;06
Max Grover
You know, come.

00;31;53;07 - 00;32;09;06
Chris Prins
Out. So what do you look for from the value add perspective? So I know you talked a little bit just about Bridge Street of what the surrounding areas, but when you look for value add opportunities, what's something that you like to hone in on there? There's an opportunity there. Yeah.

00;32;09;10 - 00;32;35;28
Ben Sietsema
I mean, it can look at a lot of different ways and maybe as a run through some of these examples, it's primarily probably through the lens of industrial property, but it's applicable, I think all different property type. So where we've we've found a lot of success is just, you know, a tenant who has a under market lease and they might have never in my term left it.

00;32;35;28 - 00;32;54;29
Ben Sietsema
And just knowing that at some point in time, like the music's going to stop, you know, so you can trick yourself or you can commit yourself to buy that at more aggressive cap rate and be a little patient for a couple of years because then, you know, All right, well, eventually we're gonna have an opportunity here.

00;32;55;01 - 00;33;20;29
Max Grover
And the reason that you're able to buy that at a better cap rate or for for less money, I guess to keep layman's term is because the short lease there's risk to that because if it's a two year lease and even if it's under market will hey, like if this guy doesn't renew, what does it look like as far as returning this building and the cost?

00;33;21;00 - 00;33;23;23
Max Grover
And does it work for other people as well see it?

00;33;23;25 - 00;33;34;09
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, you're exactly right. But I would add to that also, like, you know, I'll buy a building all day for cap if that rent is a third of what it should.

00;33;34;09 - 00;33;36;05
Chris Prins
Be short of what the market.

00;33;36;08 - 00;33;37;26
Ben Sietsema
That you know, raise their rent.

00;33;38;01 - 00;34;00;13
Max Grover
And especially especially with the new looking at versus new right where it's like you know, that's your number that you have to hit and that's your rent rate where it's like, no one can ever build this building and at least hopefully no one can build this building for cheaper than it is today as opposed to. So there's always going to be a market for that second generation space.

00;34;00;16 - 00;34;01;21
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;34;01;21 - 00;34;03;21
Max Grover
And finding that balance.

00;34;03;24 - 00;34;35;19
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. We've also found a lot of success and, you know, just unusual lease terms and different buildings. And so just, you know, being able to work through that and building a relationship with a tenant and then kind of like addressing that, you know, tenants that are struggling like, you know, companies that aren't doing well and like getting involved with those companies, those buildings and figuring out a way where we can help their business maybe be a little more profitable.

00;34;35;19 - 00;34;54;19
Ben Sietsema
Therefore, like our building is a stronger investment than that, you know, just kind of working through some of that stuff, you know, and it doesn't, you know, new stuff. One of the things we've had a ton of success with, you know, as your typical building owner, you know, we run into it all the time for sure. You guys, too, too.

00;34;54;22 - 00;35;20;00
Ben Sietsema
Well, I want to own my building if. Well, okay, that's fine. You could you know, how how about this idea Instead of you building your 100,000 square foot building and owning a 100% sell off, like, how about we build three to let you own half of it, you know, And your rental rate for your company is going to be 30, 40% less if we were younger.

00;35;20;02 - 00;35;35;26
Ben Sietsema
And so we've had a lot of success doing that and business owners love that. You know, that's better for their company because their rental rates a lot lower. They get a more diversified asset because it's about more than just their company. If their company continues to grow, they can.

00;35;36;02 - 00;35;37;09
Chris Prins
Expand into it.

00;35;37;12 - 00;36;01;20
Max Grover
And it's and it's not their it's not their main driver. It's not what they're out doing every single day As far as like the new development and construction side, it's a it's a completely different beast. So for them to take their eye off the ball, what really makes them a lot of money and have somebody that's on their team and working with them as far as the ownership and development and lease up, like I got to imagine, that's a huge perk.

00;36;01;20 - 00;36;29;04
Ben Sietsema
To great, great, great. You're exactly right. I mean, the hope is that, you know, we can they see us as a value add, just buying and knowing that process and they can stay focused on their business, but also just look at the cost of capital. I mean, hopefully they're making more money by investing into their business and growing that business than what the return on investment we real estate or just two different investment profiles.

00;36;29;04 - 00;36;38;13
Ben Sietsema
So you're exactly right. You know, both with their capital and their time, they can stay focused on business rather than, you know, the real estate.

00;36;38;15 - 00;36;59;09
Max Grover
And even then to like from that position, it's like, you know, maybe they don't want to sink even on 100,000 square foot building versus 300, even if they were going to do their own build the suit that they're going to own. Sometimes it's kind of nice to have a partner involved where they don't have to bring all the cash to the table for that project, and maybe they have some equipment upgrades they want to do and that type of thing.

00;36;59;09 - 00;37;17;09
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, we can put together a pretty bankable group, so that's nice in our terms from, you know, lenders and lenders like to see that there's more than just you this one person. Yeah yeah. Oh as a pledging collateral and things like that. So you know, those.

00;37;17;09 - 00;37;19;03
Max Grover
Are all as many people as they can.

00;37;19;05 - 00;37;20;08
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;37;20;11 - 00;37;21;24
Max Grover
You know, the they can get.

00;37;21;24 - 00;37;45;13
Chris Prins
Yeah. So you mentioned the construction costs obviously being a concern as well. As you know, financing can sometimes be with interest rates going. What are you seeing from a municipality standpoint? We see municipalities pretty favorable through site plan approval then, or is it getting harder and harder? Don't name any property under the bus lead? You know.

00;37;45;16 - 00;38;17;08
Ben Sietsema
I know. Great question. We we've seen so honestly from from my perspective if if there's a tough municipality we you know we don't want to do business there like I've seen you know, I've seen municipalities that want to talk about a lot of issues other than growing businesses. And I don't frankly want to do business there. I guess if we have a tenant or we have a project that has to be on there, okay, fine.

00;38;17;08 - 00;38;23;00
Ben Sietsema
But it's up to me. I'm going to go to the municipality these that want that are pro-business and that want to get stuff.

00;38;23;03 - 00;38;46;07
Max Grover
And it's so it's like it's hard because like for people in the municipality and stuff, they see anything new. It's, you know, it's not guaranteed. It's different. And they grew up here. They're their dad's Appel farm or something, you know, has been there for 150 years or whatever it might be. And so they don't want to see those things change.

00;38;46;07 - 00;38;53;06
Max Grover
And, you know, it's change is scary for everyone. So I think that's a lot of it. And then if you.

00;38;53;06 - 00;38;55;24
Ben Sietsema
Don't, you have more sympathy.

00;38;55;26 - 00;38;58;26
Chris Prins
Change, change that creates jobs, right?

00;38;58;28 - 00;39;22;07
Max Grover
Then in plenty of meetings with pitchforks coming up. And so I'm like, no way, man. Sorry. So it's but it's I get the perspective, but it's always so hard and frustrating because you're you're working to try and make something that's going to bring jobs and bring, you know, hopefully value adds everybody in the community and not everyone always agrees.

00;39;22;07 - 00;39;46;12
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. Yeah. So where, you know, the municipalities that we have projects going in have been super supportive, super helpful. I mean, obviously you just can't prove anything, you know, with the planning commission. But no, we're really we're really happy with the municipalities that we're working in. And really, yeah, there's no reason why it can't be a win win win.

00;39;46;14 - 00;39;52;20
Ben Sietsema
But yeah, definitely different municipalities have different views on what they're trying to accomplish.

00;39;52;23 - 00;39;54;11
Chris Prins
Now and then.

00;39;54;13 - 00;39;57;02
Max Grover
As long as they make them clear on the front.

00;39;57;07 - 00;39;58;27
Chris Prins
End, just clear that usually.

00;39;58;27 - 00;40;08;16
Max Grover
Makes it a lot easier because then they can at least be a pass as opposed to being like, yeah, going down the path. And then I guess having the carpet pulled out from under is.

00;40;08;19 - 00;40;23;14
Ben Sietsema
Part of the reason again, why I really enjoy this industrial development is like your approval process. Your entitlement process is a little bit different than a mixed use. It's a project.

00;40;23;15 - 00;40;36;10
Max Grover
And it's usually you're not going through I mean, I'm assuming or maybe you have a have you had to go through the process of doing a zoning change that wasn't a part of the master plan with industrial.

00;40;36;10 - 00;40;37;22
Ben Sietsema
Oh, that.

00;40;37;24 - 00;40;41;07
Max Grover
That was a master plan for industrial in some way.

00;40;41;08 - 00;40;44;02
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. No, no, not that it wasn't.

00;40;44;05 - 00;41;00;20
Max Grover
So that's where, that's where not to get outside of it, but it's like the multifamily guys, you know, there's not. They see a lot more of the uphill battle on that front than the industrial is usually of designated areas anyways. And hey, we're coming through.

00;41;00;20 - 00;41;10;04
Ben Sietsema
Interesting though to see over the next decade. Yeah, especially in the fringe of Grand Rapids so.

00;41;10;06 - 00;41;11;28
Max Grover
I've I've heard some push on.

00;41;12;01 - 00;41;12;19
Ben Sietsema
A tone.

00;41;12;20 - 00;41;13;05
Max Grover
Agreeing.

00;41;13;05 - 00;41;13;08
Chris Prins
It.

00;41;13;09 - 00;41;37;09
Max Grover
Yeah and so are they going to designate more land to that and that's where like up in and we can get into your project that you did up there but up in that Walker corridor that Northridge drive you know to the municipality really pushed and was a partner in all of that and rezoning that industrial and driving you know helping make sure the road north Ridge extended.

00;41;37;09 - 00;41;44;02
Chris Prins
Through because I think that's a major concern too, is just the infrastructure that needs to go in place for for a lot of these municipalities to make sites.

00;41;44;10 - 00;41;45;25
Max Grover
And they want Ben, the developer.

00;41;46;02 - 00;41;50;27
Chris Prins
Involved, is terrible because he's made it so much money and he's.

00;41;50;27 - 00;41;54;15
Max Grover
Making so much money over us. Yeah.

00;41;54;17 - 00;41;55;27
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;41;55;29 - 00;42;20;01
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, exactly. You know, Yeah, Hopefully it'll be interesting. You know, we're really focusing on and okay, you know, where, where is growth happening? And you know, there's, there's, there's, I think some developers that would go way over and say, Hey, we want to find this piece of land over here and go through a rezoning, get the infrastructure to the site.

00;42;20;04 - 00;42;46;20
Ben Sietsema
I mean, that's a heavy lift. We haven't built our business model around that. But again, going back to we try to be efficient, lean and mean. You know, we tried to focus on, okay, here's some sites, you know, it might be a master plan for. Yeah, it's great. Let's go for the rest of that. And utilities are hopefully they're really close.

00;42;46;23 - 00;42;49;22
Ben Sietsema
And so we've got we've had some good success with that.

00;42;49;24 - 00;43;13;22
Max Grover
And that's the industrial side of it and that's probably the land finding the land that can that is zoned or master plan with utilities close to the site because if you're pulling water and sewer, which most of these industrial facilities need, all of them really it's it's not cheap now.

00;43;13;23 - 00;43;36;07
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, we try that. We try to avoid that. Honestly, if you just think about the time and the energy, everything that goes into that, you know, we can we talk a little bit more about our one of our projects up in Walker. You know that was a pad ready site that. You know we had someone come along and they needed the space and they needed it quickly.

00;43;36;07 - 00;43;58;01
Ben Sietsema
And that those are kind of things where like, if we can find these sites that might be overlooked for whatever reason but are close to pad ready, then, you know, I'm continually shocked by how these big companies and, you know, even the biggest companies don't realize that they need space. Like, you know, you always get these phone calls.

00;43;58;08 - 00;43;59;16
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, we need on demand.

00;43;59;16 - 00;43;59;25
Max Grover
Yeah.

00;43;59;28 - 00;44;00;17
Ben Sietsema
When in.

00;44;00;17 - 00;44;01;05
Chris Prins
Three months.

00;44;01;10 - 00;44;03;28
Ben Sietsema
We needed months. It's like.

00;44;04;00 - 00;44;05;03
Chris Prins
Okay, yeah, I.

00;44;05;03 - 00;44;11;07
Ben Sietsema
Do not know this, you know, like a year ago. But then that's.

00;44;11;09 - 00;44;30;11
Chris Prins
Yeah, So the majority of our listeners are brokers. What would be your biggest advice, you being the developer? What's how for to bring to you for from a site perspective and like projects I mean and what's some stuff that you've been brought that you said okay he'd say if I was a waste of waste your time to dig too far.

00;44;30;14 - 00;44;59;13
Ben Sietsema
Yeah well I would say, you know, I love to, to solve problems, you know, and our industry like, yeah, confidence reality is everything. So I just, I would hope that we can gain the confidence of those that are listening. And, you know, if, if you have a client who you're just trying to figure something out, you need a creative solution.

00;44;59;15 - 00;45;09;18
Ben Sietsema
That's really where we do pretty well, I think, you know, like I'm the decision maker for orders, you know, and.

00;45;09;20 - 00;45;20;04
Max Grover
And if there wasn't hair on it, it would probably already be done if there wasn't an issue, if it wasn't at this point. And Kent County, Ottawa County, West Michigan.

00;45;20;09 - 00;45;21;10
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, yeah.

00;45;21;10 - 00;45;28;12
Max Grover
Someone out to the Lakeshore, I mean, if it hasn't been done it's there's an issue there's got to be some sort of issue with it that needs to be solved.

00;45;28;12 - 00;45;48;18
Ben Sietsema
Yeah that's great. Get a call. It's like well there's, there's ten other people that might be interested in this, but I wanted to call you first as well. How many? Not enough that are, you know, business. MAUER Or just, you know, if it's out there, you know the the returns are such.

00;45;48;18 - 00;46;07;20
Max Grover
That's that's the that's the value that's a value creation though to that like as opposed to just going out like how you said you're looking at value add properties. That's where that's the value add right there on the front end of solving those major problems that somebody else looked at this site and I was like, That's crazy. It can't be.

00;46;07;20 - 00;46;22;22
Ben Sietsema
Done. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Well, if they can't land the site or, you know, the, the, you know, the thing, I'd be thrilled that, you know, if, you know, what would even be better is if a broker came and said, Here's a problem. I've solved.

00;46;22;22 - 00;46;30;13
Chris Prins
It. Yeah, why don't you go? It's just. Yeah, it's great. Just can I pay? Oh.

00;46;30;15 - 00;46;40;08
Ben Sietsema
And you run into that. There's a building out there for sale and someone has a tenant that, like lost to take half of it or whatever. It's like just so we.

00;46;40;08 - 00;46;41;16
Chris Prins
Can figure something out.

00;46;41;19 - 00;46;59;01
Ben Sietsema
That's a great, you know, So that kind of stuff is is great. You know, occasionally we'll get the call of like, Hey, we got this great opportunity X, Y, Z, Our is like, is that that building over there that's listed for sale?

00;46;59;04 - 00;47;00;23
Chris Prins
Yeah, that's talking about MLS.

00;47;00;23 - 00;47;06;22
Ben Sietsema
But you know, I got all this great stuff. It's like, you know, I, you know.

00;47;06;24 - 00;47;25;22
Max Grover
And that's the, that's like the part where like what is the value of brokerage and that type of thing. And it's really having the inside scoop and different areas that you can bring somebody like Ben that's like, Hey, no one has looked at this yet. This is an opportunity. Sure, there might be hair on it, but most of it makes sense.

00;47;25;22 - 00;47;29;13
Max Grover
And then Ben can take it and add his value.

00;47;29;16 - 00;47;39;12
Ben Sietsema
And what's that value together? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, I would desire to, like, work on, you know, problem solving together.

00;47;39;17 - 00;48;07;29
Max Grover
So, yeah, that's awesome. And so we've kind of been alluding to it this whole time too, into your Fruit Ridge project, which I think everyone's fairly aware of. And in commercial world, but always good to hear more on it in more detail of how it started and how you got there and, and, and to how you went from value add plays to then new construction and ground up.

00;48;08;03 - 00;48;35;00
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, Great question. So yeah, probably almost two years ago now, I can remember sitting in my office and it's just like, man, with where this economy is right now, it's like jump this idea of buying these existing buildings and adding value to them somehow, some way, like I'm going to be pretty bored for the next couple of years because there's just not many opportunities out there.

00;48;35;01 - 00;48;54;05
Ben Sietsema
If, you know, if there were, then, you know, like our biggest competition, usually our users, our space business owners, it's like, okay, this building comes available. It's like, well, this guy owns this, you know, manufacturing company. He's going to buy that person. They can always overpay.

00;48;54;08 - 00;48;55;09
Chris Prins
Right? You know.

00;48;55;11 - 00;49;01;05
Max Grover
Because he can bump his rent or carry it if he needs to and backfill. It's not really about.

00;49;01;11 - 00;49;01;29
Ben Sietsema
He's not worried.

00;49;01;29 - 00;49;03;28
Max Grover
About it's not worried about.

00;49;04;01 - 00;49;05;12
Chris Prins
Right. Yeah.

00;49;05;14 - 00;49;07;15
Max Grover
He needs a space. He's going to get that.

00;49;07;15 - 00;49;35;12
Ben Sietsema
Yes. Yeah. So and about that same time I have a relative of mine who had had a manufacturing company and they were booked space, so I was kind of looking at my options for them for a while and we couldn't find anything existing. And we looked at, you know, they needed like 60,000 square feet because we looked at building that and it's like, Whoa, your rents, you, you know, at that time.

00;49;35;14 - 00;49;36;16
Chris Prins
You thought, yeah.

00;49;36;18 - 00;49;55;11
Ben Sietsema
How it's like. And so I said, you know, how about, how about we look at doing like a big building and we found a great piece of land and restructured a partnership where the land owners put their equity in, they had land into the and.

00;49;55;13 - 00;50;17;21
Max Grover
And that's a piece too that a lot of people have been after for all long time. It's such a good piece. Obviously, there's challenges to it. I mean, you drive off and right, there's elevation change and stuff, but as far as location, right off the highway next to a ton of stuff, there's Amazons in there now, FedEx did a big distribution center.

00;50;17;21 - 00;50;25;15
Max Grover
Michigan State Police built a regional headquarters up there. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on over there. So.

00;50;25;18 - 00;50;31;18
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. Yeah. So we did that project. We kind of came out of the ground with a tenant, another one while we were charge.

00;50;31;23 - 00;50;35;01
Max Grover
I forgot to ask my question. Sorry, Sorry, I forgot.

00;50;35;01 - 00;50;36;02
Chris Prins
That question.

00;50;36;05 - 00;50;39;17
Max Grover
Has started getting a phone call.

00;50;39;19 - 00;50;40;22
Chris Prins
Went another devolved with.

00;50;40;22 - 00;51;00;09
Max Grover
That piece. Isn't that being right. A lot of people being after it. What? How did you get the foot in the door and or I mean, was it that piece of equity and being able to roll that in? Is that kind of what's your. Yeah, yeah. A lot of different things. Just relationships maybe even to Yeah.

00;51;00;12 - 00;51;01;27
Ben Sietsema
I like to think it was my smile.

00;51;01;28 - 00;51;03;00
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;51;03;02 - 00;51;04;25
Max Grover
It might have. And he's got a nice smile.

00;51;04;25 - 00;51;06;08
Chris Prins
He's got a nice smile.

00;51;06;10 - 00;51;30;14
Ben Sietsema
He does I think, I think the land, you know, being creative, being flexible. I mean that again that's like one of the things I think that we do really well is, you know, we're not some big company from the East Coast that like would say, absolutely not. You can't be a part of our partnership. You know, like, you know, we have this big farm behind us and we that doesn't allow us regulators won't let us do that.

00;51;30;14 - 00;51;53;29
Ben Sietsema
So like, you know, like when you put a deal together and we can structure a deal the right way so that yeah, they were able to to roll that equity into the deal and get help that we kind of had a tenant. Yeah. Mm. I had a lender that made a nice introduction for us. They kind of gave some credibility to me I guess as an individual, as a company.

00;51;54;02 - 00;52;05;20
Ben Sietsema
And so you know, I think all of that, I mean you'd have to ask them that. But you know, they, they owned it for like 100 years and then decided to partner with us. So, yeah.

00;52;05;24 - 00;52;26;02
Max Grover
And the timing was right, too. I mean, as far as like the market goes and Northridge having been pulled through. And so, I mean, everything did timing wise in that sense too. Like development had reached that parcel at that point where like when they built their building originally, I'm sure they were, you know, on the front end of development in the water area.

00;52;26;02 - 00;52;28;14
Ben Sietsema
So, yeah, I'm sure that.

00;52;28;16 - 00;52;30;16
Max Grover
It's all those things. Timing.

00;52;30;16 - 00;52;31;12
Chris Prins
Is that all timing?

00;52;31;15 - 00;52;34;26
Max Grover
Timing is everything. It's a.

00;52;34;28 - 00;52;36;08
Ben Sietsema
Sport factor.

00;52;36;11 - 00;52;37;10
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;52;37;12 - 00;52;45;17
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. But yeah. So that we had, we completed that construction and we filled it up right.

00;52;45;17 - 00;52;52;13
Max Grover
Away And what was the not the I don't need an exact but like average price per square foot that you're hitting on this.

00;52;52;15 - 00;52;58;08
Ben Sietsema
Term, the midwives there, you know. And so we felt pretty good about that.

00;52;58;14 - 00;53;06;21
Max Grover
Again you're like 595 probably original list and you're like we can we can hit that right? We can hit that right. Yeah. I was like, I.

00;53;06;22 - 00;53;18;16
Ben Sietsema
Know, I know. So yeah, we kind of stick in thinking. I think we were, I think we're at list that maybe 550. Okay. And what we had left actually.

00;53;18;19 - 00;53;19;15
Max Grover
That's cheap to that.

00;53;19;15 - 00;53;22;05
Chris Prins
Yeah. You know, I think people think yeah.

00;53;22;09 - 00;53;23;11
Max Grover
Shoot that I was.

00;53;23;14 - 00;53;29;08
Ben Sietsema
So we filled that up and I was like man I got, I got five more properties and.

00;53;29;08 - 00;53;32;09
Max Grover
That was, that was two, three years, three years ago.

00;53;32;09 - 00;53;33;09
Ben Sietsema
Now. So probably.

00;53;33;09 - 00;53;34;05
Max Grover
About three years.

00;53;34;05 - 00;53;40;00
Ben Sietsema
As No, it was a little over a month for that is like 8 to 8 months.

00;53;40;01 - 00;53;48;22
Max Grover
But from that, from the original, the beginning is probably a three year process to then completion with the building just being complete last year.

00;53;48;26 - 00;53;53;11
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy to yeah, yeah. I mean.

00;53;53;13 - 00;54;07;23
Max Grover
And that's why and that's why you're rental rates at 575 as well because interest rates construction cost everything was in the process two years ago instead of now today.

00;54;07;25 - 00;54;09;28
Ben Sietsema
Wishing that.

00;54;10;00 - 00;54;10;29
Chris Prins
I 55.

00;54;10;29 - 00;54;16;15
Max Grover
50. That's giving you I didn't want anybody in. Yeah I wanted everyone all your tenants think they got a hot.

00;54;16;18 - 00;54;18;27
Chris Prins
Yeah. Well they.

00;54;19;00 - 00;54;19;21
Max Grover
Yeah. Don't move.

00;54;19;21 - 00;54;21;11
Chris Prins
Well yeah so.

00;54;21;13 - 00;54;46;18
Ben Sietsema
So so do that and it's like you've got a small property. Yeah. Two doors down. There's some property that's for sale and went back for and we bought that. So the first one was 35 one. The one that we're building now is 31 one. And so same thing there. We now we have a, we don't have a foundation set for 100% which.

00;54;46;20 - 00;54;53;24
Max Grover
You have that they 100% leased out. Yeah. Yeah. How many different tenants can you say? Only one center. Yeah. That's amazing.

00;54;53;24 - 00;54;55;19
Chris Prins
So yeah.

00;54;55;21 - 00;54;57;24
Max Grover
It's amazing.

00;54;57;27 - 00;54;59;09
Chris Prins
Yeah.

00;54;59;11 - 00;55;02;04
Max Grover
So yeah, I mean that makes it easy.

00;55;02;04 - 00;55;05;06
Chris Prins
That's an out. Now what's next project is like one.

00;55;05;07 - 00;55;07;07
Max Grover
With the one though too. Like.

00;55;07;09 - 00;55;10;04
Chris Prins
No, I need this. I, I love this.

00;55;10;04 - 00;55;26;28
Max Grover
This is my walker here. I love Walker. But that, that piece, I mean, to get to it and that's the reason it's sat there it's got the it's got the highway frontage on 96. It's awesome. But getting into that piece, I mean, that had to be a big hurdle to figure out, too. As far as.

00;55;27;01 - 00;55;29;23
Chris Prins
Driving, it is beautiful.

00;55;30;00 - 00;55;32;22
Ben Sietsema
What study.

00;55;32;24 - 00;55;34;13
Chris Prins
Was.

00;55;34;15 - 00;55;48;28
Ben Sietsema
In? I know you're right. I think I think a little bit of it, it's like, you know, this is a little different. Like there's a long driveway here for those that aren't familiar, you kind of got to drive between two other properties. And I think it's by a quarter mile, you know, So it's not.

00;55;48;28 - 00;55;59;08
Max Grover
The one subdivisions there and it's Seth and then all of a sudden you're like, Oh yeah, this has highway frontage. It's right off of footbridge is right off all these by these other major projects. That's a pretty cool Yeah.

00;55;59;08 - 00;56;05;10
Ben Sietsema
And I don't know how many people realize it or not but you know the utilities were already run back to.

00;56;05;13 - 00;56;05;26
Max Grover
Where they were.

00;56;05;26 - 00;56;17;29
Ben Sietsema
So Yeah. So there's some value there. And so when we were underwriting the deal, we knew that we had some savings there. Good is what was already brought back to the site.

00;56;18;04 - 00;56;24;09
Max Grover
What was that? What was that listed a price per square foot two years later listed. You don't have to get in.

00;56;24;09 - 00;56;26;13
Chris Prins
Theory to actually use it.

00;56;26;16 - 00;56;39;29
Ben Sietsema
At it is still up on carbon right now. So we have we have 50,000 of it that was left over that was listed at 720. Wow.

00;56;40;01 - 00;56;43;23
Max Grover
In two years, essentially. I mean, from now.

00;56;43;23 - 00;56;55;21
Ben Sietsema
Granted, this is this is a little different building. This is a 32 foot. It's a 50 by 60 foot council space. And, you know, beefed up power and floor.

00;56;55;21 - 00;57;00;29
Max Grover
So this was that plan that way originally, or was that driven by the main?

00;57;01;01 - 00;57;03;08
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. So that was driven by.

00;57;03;11 - 00;57;05;23
Max Grover
The main interest that you're getting argues.

00;57;05;25 - 00;57;18;07
Ben Sietsema
In the specifications that they did. And so we, we kind of built the building around and sure enough their, their business has continued to do well.

00;57;18;09 - 00;57;19;09
Chris Prins
That's space.

00;57;19;12 - 00;57;21;25
Max Grover
That's a nice call. The good we'll just take it.

00;57;21;26 - 00;57;25;17
Chris Prins
Yeah well that makes it easy at our current ratio.

00;57;25;19 - 00;57;27;27
Max Grover
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

00;57;27;29 - 00;57;56;09
Ben Sietsema
So, so yeah, it's great. And so now you know we have other things going on, but we have a big chunk of land out and we have 45 acres out there that again, it's, it's pretty pad ready. And you know, when you kind of think about the opportunity there, we get we get excited about it. I mean, where you can see Herman Miller across and look down the street, you see Gentex and everything that they're doing.

00;57;56;11 - 00;58;00;08
Ben Sietsema
So we're we're pretty excited about.

00;58;00;10 - 00;58;09;24
Max Grover
And that's where like when like growing up, I grew up in Kentwood and you know, you hear something like Coopersville and you're like, Oh, that's way out.

00;58;09;26 - 00;58;11;08
Chris Prins
There, you know.

00;58;11;10 - 00;58;33;18
Max Grover
Or hudsonville and Zeeland. Then you're like, Oh, that's, yeah, that's way out. But it's really just loss. Yeah, they're all mad at me and it's hard to. They never like, you know, that's okay now, but, but I mean in reality like that felt like, it felt like a different market to me growing up. Whereas like, it was out there.

00;58;33;18 - 00;58;48;03
Max Grover
But now it's everything continues to grow and push and, you know, go try and find an industrial piece in Hudsonville right now. Yeah. And you can. And so it's kind of a natural progression out to Zeeland to all that.

00;58;48;03 - 00;58;48;23
Chris Prins
And so.

00;58;48;26 - 00;59;01;13
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, yeah, I mean if you, if you have a group that needs three or 400,000 square feet, they need to do a new build. And I mean, what are your.

00;59;01;15 - 00;59;02;28
Chris Prins
Where else to go. Yeah.

00;59;03;00 - 00;59;09;19
Ben Sietsema
Furthermore, if you have someone that needs half a million square feet, what are their options? I mean, they're making one of their. What do I want? I don't know.

00;59;09;24 - 00;59;37;04
Max Grover
There's not a like it and it goes back to as well where it's like where you talked about where a lot of these even large companies, international companies are in a panic to find space now because they they've waited and waited and waited until now. We need space today. So it's like, where do you go? That's not going to be even if it's zoned or master plan a two year to get up and open.

00;59;37;09 - 00;59;47;03
Max Grover
You know, maybe it's a year or six months or in some cases where you've already spent portions of the space to build it. Yeah. So that's all, all of those things. Yeah.

00;59;47;04 - 01;00;04;06
Ben Sietsema
But I mean that area has got a lot going on. I mentioned Herman Miller. Yeah. I mean the LG Chem expansion, I mean that's, that's not far away and it's a great market. There's a lot of opportunity factoring out there and.

01;00;04;08 - 01;00;11;27
Max Grover
Water, sewer, a great place to live, great school. See here you have said huge thing is workers, right?

01;00;11;27 - 01;00;13;27
Chris Prins
Well, the employers and finally.

01;00;13;29 - 01;00;19;22
Max Grover
Employees people will want people want to live there. Zealands a great place to live. Great schools.

01;00;19;25 - 01;00;22;01
Ben Sietsema
I think it's that far away. I mean.

01;00;22;03 - 01;00;22;26
Chris Prins
I wasn't.

01;00;22;26 - 01;00;28;16
Max Grover
Bashing Zeeland. I'm not going to feel it. It felt far away when.

01;00;28;16 - 01;00;30;16
Chris Prins
I was a 12 year old kid in.

01;00;30;18 - 01;00;31;22
Max Grover
Kentwood.

01;00;31;24 - 01;00;35;29
Chris Prins
Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. I just think I expect that.

01;00;36;01 - 01;00;37;11
Max Grover
We're going to get it done now.

01;00;37;13 - 01;00;38;01
Chris Prins
It's just going.

01;00;38;01 - 01;00;42;21
Max Grover
To say Zeeland is the best.

01;00;42;24 - 01;00;47;15
Chris Prins
I have no problem with Zeeland. You just said it.

01;00;47;15 - 01;00;48;08
Max Grover
Felt far.

01;00;48;08 - 01;01;02;11
Ben Sietsema
Away now. But it's reality like. Yeah, you have, you have these people and they're like, Oh, well, we got to do this. And it's got to be in Grand Rapids. And it's like, okay, well go, good luck. But you know.

01;01;02;14 - 01;01;07;23
Max Grover
Half a million square feet in Grand Rapids. Yeah, that's where.

01;01;07;25 - 01;01;28;07
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, we're excited about that. We and we could be patient. You know, the interesting thing that I've been telling people in this land a little cheaper out there. Sure. It's no less expensive to build out there, which is kind of interesting if.

01;01;28;09 - 01;01;34;25
Max Grover
You're taking that same concept essentially, and it doesn't matter where the box drops, it's just the same thing needs to be built.

01;01;34;29 - 01;02;05;10
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. So historically, if you like the Holland Zeeland market, I think, I mean I would say around, but I, I feel like historically that's 10 to 20 less and rental rate. Yep. But, but now it's, it's actually a little bit more expensive to build out there just with snow loads. Things like that. And so it'll just be interesting to see, you know, as we continue to get proposal of this RFP and all that kind of stuff.

01;02;05;10 - 01;02;26;08
Ben Sietsema
Like, all right, you know, the companies that were responding to it are going to want to be there or maybe they have to be there to help. You know, they and and so we're going to need to get pricing that's just like what you see in Grand Rapids. And so that'll just be that'll be an interesting thing to work through.

01;02;26;10 - 01;02;32;20
Ben Sietsema
And it's going to have to happen. I mean, with the economy where it's at right now, there's just no other options.

01;02;32;23 - 01;02;58;13
Max Grover
Yeah. And so, yeah, it's all trying to balance to like pushing into new market, different rental rates, all that. And then it's, it's like looking at the whole picture and it's like who I have to now I have to land a tenant or, you know, a partner in this project to build it and be excited about it and make sure location numbers, everything, municipality timing, the timing, all of it works.

01;02;58;15 - 01;03;01;22
Max Grover
And where are you at on that one? You Yeah.

01;03;01;28 - 01;03;24;00
Ben Sietsema
We own that with the reason say up one of the so, so we're in control of that on it get closed on it. One of the reasons I think that you know again we got involved was a little bit on the value of just the land side of it is there was this ditch that was running and so it impacted kind of a third of the development area, I call it.

01;03;24;02 - 01;03;51;05
Ben Sietsema
So we spent almost a year working with Eagle and getting the approval to relocate there. We have the right. We're not required to do that. We have the right to move that one property line, which allows us now a much larger developable area and allows us to do a larger scale there so we can do it. We have a couple different site plans, everything from for building site plan to two buildings.

01;03;51;05 - 01;04;03;20
Ben Sietsema
I went to a one building site, so we had some flexibility in that. But, you know, I would we have a goal and I would expect us to be moving dirt out there this this year.

01;04;03;22 - 01;04;04;10
Chris Prins
Wow. Wow.

01;04;04;16 - 01;04;13;12
Ben Sietsema
An interest has been interesting. It's been a high we've we've had a handful of proposals that we've been working on good work site.

01;04;13;14 - 01;04;29;17
Max Grover
And is that I mean for Honeycrisp over the next call it three years I mean is that going to be the main focus is kind of big box industrial or still open to other opportunities, opportunity driven opportunity driven?

01;04;29;17 - 01;04;46;02
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. I mean, we love industrial is probably a long term goal for us. Historically with the office we've we've purchased and the value and have sold that long term. There's just is a lot of work that goes in those buildings.

01;04;46;04 - 01;04;47;07
Chris Prins
Offices office.

01;04;47;12 - 01;04;49;02
Max Grover
Office and it's.

01;04;49;04 - 01;04;50;17
Ben Sietsema
Just they're only used.

01;04;50;20 - 01;05;12;05
Max Grover
Well when it's what, five 10% of the building space in industrial is office and might need to be turned over and the other 95% stays the same versus office, almost 100% of it goes in the dumpster. And they might be beautiful space, but if it doesn't fit that next, use it or it doesn't fit in the dumpster, start over.

01;05;12;08 - 01;05;13;24
Ben Sietsema
Don't tell anybody this.

01;05;13;26 - 01;05;16;23
Chris Prins
Industrial investments stuff that's about.

01;05;16;23 - 01;05;18;09
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, yeah.

01;05;18;12 - 01;05;25;24
Max Grover
It's not for the faint of heart, don't you think? Because, I mean, you're putting up half a million square foot building, and you know what? That's not.

01;05;25;24 - 01;05;33;09
Chris Prins
What's your timeline? If you do move dirt, say that's your. Yes. So for delivers, we're zoned.

01;05;33;11 - 01;05;51;27
Ben Sietsema
You know, we we would need to go through site plan approval and we might actually get we potentially get a jump start on that too. Your risk there is something approved that you know your final product doesn't look like that or have has a tenant that comes in and says, hey, we need a little bit different. Yeah, yeah.

01;05;51;29 - 01;06;07;17
Ben Sietsema
To go back in or not. But ultimately it's a it's to site planning approval is needed there. And you know, we've been seeing construction timelines. They're pretty quick at these things. You know if you go to the Pre-Engineered building, we're out there.

01;06;07;20 - 01;06;10;07
Max Grover
Are you seeing costs come down at all yet?

01;06;10;09 - 01;06;25;05
Ben Sietsema
Um, we are hearing hearing rumors, yeah. We hear talk of costs going down. We haven't seen that yet. But I think, you know, I, I think you'll see I've heard.

01;06;25;05 - 01;06;30;20
Max Grover
Lead times on materials are kind of starting potentially maybe to get back to.

01;06;30;22 - 01;06;31;18
Chris Prins
A lot.

01;06;31;21 - 01;06;34;29
Max Grover
Of that. Yeah. A lot of qualifiers.

01;06;35;01 - 01;07;00;12
Ben Sietsema
I have heard and seen the Times shrink, which obviously then the next step to that is, okay, let's lower costs. Mostly times are shrinking, but we'll see. I don't know. I mean, these construction companies continue to talk about, you know, good strong years in 2023. I you know, I don't you think about that. It's like, well, who who's building office?

01;07;00;15 - 01;07;02;17
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, we're pulling off some of that, but.

01;07;02;25 - 01;07;11;05
Max Grover
Some of it's big some of it's big bonded type stuff to where it's I mean, we've printed millions, trillions. Exactly.

01;07;11;05 - 01;07;23;17
Ben Sietsema
So these aren't the options that are they're sitting on the sidelines. It feels like them. They're saying, well, everybody's saying this recession's coming. So not so it's balance play Well, it's all free money.

01;07;23;19 - 01;07;26;04
Chris Prins
From it's okay to say $5.

01;07;26;07 - 01;07;33;20
Max Grover
So I might I said something about Zeeland. This guy's talking about the federal the.

01;07;33;22 - 01;07;35;21
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah.

01;07;35;24 - 01;07;59;06
Ben Sietsema
So. Yeah. What happens when you have your money. I mean we got, we have a call the other day. Yeah. For one of our projects. This is interesting. So we had to call it a day for one of our projects and it was essentially a government entity that was inquiring if they could help fund some of our work.

01;07;59;08 - 01;08;02;08
Chris Prins
Yes. Yeah, Yeah.

01;08;02;13 - 01;08;03;08
Max Grover
But what strings.

01;08;03;12 - 01;08;06;12
Chris Prins
Attached through our development After what looks like.

01;08;06;12 - 01;08;08;09
Ben Sietsema
A year ago, we got this massive inflation.

01;08;08;09 - 01;08;09;14
Max Grover
Problem. Yeah, yeah.

01;08;09;16 - 01;08;21;11
Ben Sietsema
And, and to hedge against that we have this interest rate problem and near these, you know, some of these government entities have so much money they actually don't know what to do with it.

01;08;21;13 - 01;08;37;24
Max Grover
Yeah. Because it has to be spent has to be placed, it has to go towards infrastructure has it. So that's why you're seeing a lot of these big, big projects happen because of the pushing over the finish line. But it's like your income double should be.

01;08;37;26 - 01;08;42;07
Chris Prins
The people want an idea.

01;08;42;10 - 01;09;03;11
Max Grover
Some of it sounds like somebody just went and met with this account or this. Yeah, Now I'm with you. I'm 100% with you. It's it's a struggle. It's a struggle to be in that you're in competition with. You're in competition for that money, essentially. Or Right. If the plumber is going to be bidding a huge bonded government type work.

01;09;03;12 - 01;09;03;19
Chris Prins
Yeah.

01;09;03;22 - 01;09;14;17
Max Grover
He still his employees are going to go do that work as opposed to now you're in competition with them to get them to your project. So it does affect it affects everyone when that happens.

01;09;14;17 - 01;09;27;08
Ben Sietsema
So yeah, So will construction costs come down? I don't know. I mean, maybe eventually, but there's still a lot of money in the system, you know, and that.

01;09;27;10 - 01;09;42;06
Max Grover
So then it goes. If, if construction costs stay right or hold firm and interest rates or interest rates, they are what they is it going to be then it's rental rate that has to to go up, right.

01;09;42;09 - 01;09;46;00
Ben Sietsema
Yeah, I think we're I think we're already seeing that.

01;09;46;02 - 01;09;48;09
Max Grover
The people are accepting that tenants are.

01;09;48;09 - 01;10;12;00
Ben Sietsema
Well, the ones whose businesses rely on or just have to eat like they have to do it, they need more space. They, you know, to, to meet this contract that they have signed. They need the room to have it. So they just have to I mean, that's what I'm seeing in order to see. But that's what I'm seeing right now is that there are these companies that just have to do it as of business.

01;10;12;03 - 01;10;36;01
Ben Sietsema
So other people are, you know, either saying no to some contracts or they're only doing contracts that are just more highly profitable and they're trying to deal with what they have because of the unknown. But the interest rate thing. Is it I mean, I'm not saying anything that people don't know. It's a it's a big deal. I mean, if look at.

01;10;36;03 - 01;10;38;07
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. How that impacts.

01;10;38;07 - 01;10;44;17
Max Grover
On your debt service from a 4% interest rate to six and a half, seven.

01;10;44;17 - 01;11;13;00
Ben Sietsema
What people need to realize that I'm kind of talking so you know, if you if you own a building and you think your building's worth what it was a year ago or 18 months ago, what you now it's worth, you know, probably 30% less, maybe more. It obviously depends on the situation. But, you know, and so you see people that are talking about the value of their building or value of their land, I want to it.

01;11;13;05 - 01;11;19;12
Ben Sietsema
So I we have this appraisal for like a year and a half ago. It's like when.

01;11;19;14 - 01;11;22;25
Max Grover
Interest rates went on. Interest rates? Yeah, exactly.

01;11;22;25 - 01;11;46;27
Ben Sietsema
Now I'm talking about from the investment side right now, you could talk to, you know, Mr. Manufacturing Company down the road and they're like, Oh man, yeah, I pay crazy amounts of money for that building because my alternative is over here at 120 bucks, correct? Yeah, sure. I'll buy it.

01;11;47;00 - 01;12;13;17
Max Grover
Samantha, if I'm at 95 bucks a square foot to, buy your existing building and can move in in six months or other Option is I can, you know, go and lease space or build new a new building at 120 bucks a square foot and be a year from now from the commitment date if you know, if there's somebody that already has a site that's ready to go.

01;12;13;19 - 01;12;22;08
Max Grover
So it's yeah, that's where it's you haven't seen prices come down yet either because of that. Yeah. It all plays together. Yeah.

01;12;22;10 - 01;12;46;07
Ben Sietsema
You can do a little games, you know, with the pro farmers and stuff. It's kind of interesting. You just look at cap rates and you put in your debt right out. What you get out in the marketplace with you know, for that number or anything like 10% cash on cash return. Wow. Look at what it was in the cap rate you could pay with 4% that oh.

01;12;46;13 - 01;12;48;08
Max Grover
3837.

01;12;48;08 - 01;12;50;17
Chris Prins
Five seven square.

01;12;50;20 - 01;12;55;08
Ben Sietsema
Peg. Exactly six, six and seven.

01;12;55;11 - 01;12;58;26
Max Grover
I'm nine and some small stuff. I mean, really so.

01;12;58;29 - 01;13;01;00
Ben Sietsema
I mean I didn't say.

01;13;01;03 - 01;13;01;28
Chris Prins
I don't.

01;13;01;28 - 01;13;05;13
Max Grover
Disagree I've heard it I've heard it out there so.

01;13;05;13 - 01;13;22;00
Ben Sietsema
But you know you look at that okay so if you're going to take your data called 7%, then. All right. Well, what what kind of cap rate? And then I afford to pay for this thing. Well, it's like nine in the hat, you know, So people.

01;13;22;02 - 01;13;24;11
Chris Prins
And how many sellers will sell for that? Nine that.

01;13;24;13 - 01;13;25;12
Ben Sietsema
The desperate.

01;13;25;14 - 01;13;33;28
Chris Prins
The desperate ones who have about six months left on their lease for their time, the tenant hasn't spoken with them. Yeah.

01;13;34;00 - 01;13;35;29
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. They're going over to Chris.

01;13;36;01 - 01;13;38;15
Chris Prins
Yeah, yeah.

01;13;38;17 - 01;13;40;23
Ben Sietsema
Yeah. No, it's, it's just an interest.

01;13;40;23 - 01;13;47;00
Max Grover
You know. Well, honey, Chris said he could build it for $5 and house.

01;13;47;02 - 01;13;51;02
Chris Prins
I just. Yeah.

01;13;51;04 - 01;13;53;16
Max Grover
Don't worry. It's just Chris and my mom's listening to it.

01;13;53;22 - 01;13;57;29
Chris Prins
Exactly. Yeah, Mom, you know. Absolutely. That's what was.

01;13;58;01 - 01;13;59;11
Max Grover
Exactly.

01;13;59;13 - 01;14;05;05
Chris Prins
So. Well, cool. Well, thank you so much. But for. Yeah, thanks for coming to gas and everything. We appreciate it.

01;14;05;06 - 01;14;15;21
Max Grover
Any last thoughts you want to leave us with or how to get a hold of you? Maybe as far as the broker that's listening, I wants to bring you a half a million square foot tenant.

01;14;15;24 - 01;14;18;26
Chris Prins
Yes. Oh, yeah.

01;14;18;29 - 01;14;40;22
Ben Sietsema
Oh, yeah my. Information on her website or find it on car. But yeah, no, I, I think that's a great idea what you guys are doing. It's a lot of fun to do. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for listening. There is one or two little pieces of information that were fun or, you know, insightful or just, you know.

01;14;40;24 - 01;14;44;25
Max Grover
Either way. Either way, all our moms will say, you know.

01;14;44;27 - 01;15;03;21
Chris Prins
Number one, they'll serve with all their friends here. So awesome. Yeah, it's great. But.