Your Therapist Needs Therapy 44 - Therapists Need Help, Too with Becca Ferguson

Jeremy is joined this week by the authentic and genuine Becca Ferguson. Becca and Jeremy talk about growing up in conservative households that didn’t talk about mental health, Becca’s horror stories with her own therapy, and getting to a place where she now helps other therapists build the practice of their dreams. It’s a fun chat that covers a lot of difficult experiences and the personal growth that followed.

You can find out more about Becca at her website beccafergusonlpc.com and her practice at The Therapy Office, or find her on Instagram and follow The Therapy Office on Instagram or FaceBook.

Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find more media from him on YouTube or Instagram. Head over to Patreon to support the show, or you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well!

-----

Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship. 

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Becca Ferguson (2024-02-22 09:06 GMT-6) - Transcript

Attendees

Becca Ferguson, Jeremy Schumacher

Transcript

This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.

Jeremy Schumacher: In the mental health field today. I am joined by owner and operator of the therapy office Ferguson Becca. Thanks for joining me.

Becca Ferguson: No, I'm super glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me on here. I would saw the name of your podcast. I was like whoop called out.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, it's been really fun connecting to people and also I think clients don't hear this from us very often that we do our own work and so really trying to normal Destigmatize mental health, I'm in the midwest where it's still heavily stigmatized and so really working to normalize that hey this is work for everyone.

Becca Ferguson: For sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm in Arkansas. I always joke around when I'm talking to people that are outside of Arkansas. I'm like Arkansas is the buckle of the Bible Belt. So stigma is really big here. we just like to tie it all up in there make sure Thanksgiving dinner fits and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: then just Buckle it all in there. So yeah, it can be challenging for sure stigma's real.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yes, for sure. I was start with the same question, which is how do you get into the mental health field?

Becca Ferguson: Yeah What story do you want because I got a couple I'm just kidding. I mean, honestly, I wasn't going to like mental health and counseling was never an option for me because I didn't know that it existed. And so I didn't even know that counseling existed until I was college and I grew up in a very conservative Christian home. So where you get all your guidance and everything comes from that religious structure the religious leaders, etc. Etc. When it came, I had struggles veering my youth I would say I had challenging teenage experience. It felt like a couple duck a decades happened and the couple years spans. It was very challenging for sure.

Becca Ferguson: and during that time I did have a couple of mental health challenges you look back at it now and you're like, that was anxiety or that was depression or something of that nature or those were Suicidal Thoughts. that's interesting, but I didn't know that any of those things were actually tied to mental health until I went to college and I separated from that atmosphere and I was away for my family and then all the sudden I was having to figure things out all by myself and I started seeing the on campus counselor.

Becca Ferguson: Not the best counselor that I've ever seen in my whole entire life. I was struggling with an eating disorder at that point in time and I was going several days without eating and I got found in one of the rooms that college I was at passed out and I had told one person that I hadn't ate in several days and then the next thing you know, I'm in a wheelchair being carted again across campus going to the counselor's office and the counselor says I would diagnose you anorexia, but you're not skinny enough, for me to do that,…

Jeremy Schumacher: out there

Becca Ferguson: I was like, okay, so I'm fine just like everyone's told me my whole life and Then the college I went to they got rid of therapy after my freshman year because it wasn't warranted anymore. As a needed expense. Thankfully they've brought it back since then, but I mean the way that you could get therapy after that was going to your ra inside your dorm and telling them exactly what you're struggling with and then they would deem whether or not you needed counseling or not. And so I was like no not doing that.

Jeremy Schumacher: no cheese

Becca Ferguson: And so I just got an unhealthy romantic relationships to dissociate from everything bad that was happening with me. which is also a really healthy thing to take my advice but I did take a group dynamics course just to get some credit hours my junior year. I loved it. I was just like this is the vibe. We were five chicks all in a circle. Just chilling talking about our really bad romantic relationships. all of us are in completely different places and I'm like, this is a Vibe. I love this and then I took a psychology course and I failed it bombed it terrible. I'm like, I don't understand this brain stuff. This is science. No way no not doing it. And so I backed out. My first degree is in radio television video strategic communication and broadcasting.

00:05:00

Becca Ferguson: And so I got that and then went into Ministry because obviously that's the step that you do after you get a broadcasting degree. And so I was a youth Minister for a couple months and I just realized These kids are coming to me with some hard s*** and I can't tell them anything. I can't be like, wow, you're really struggling with this. Let me give you real advice. I just have to be like Jesus doesn't approve of that behavior. So I'm gonna need you to calm down real quick. and I don't want that and so I didn't like doing that the church does that was pretty abusive.

Becca Ferguson: I went through some pretty crappy things and that atmosphere and then moved back home at the advice of a therapist needs.

Becca Ferguson: Previous life that are scared of my profession because they're afraid I'm going to psychoanalyze them which I'm already have watch out. But yeah, that's a little bit about how I became a therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I mean there's a lot in there that we could dig into I think. yeah, and I was raised to also very conservative Christian and My mom loves and supports me but doesn't talk about my profession at all because it's it for that generation. And also the people my family who are still very conservative Christian like psychology is scary therapy is scary. Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: However, he likes to impress me when it comes to therapy. And so gosh, it was three years ago. I'm down at my parents house because I'm doing wedding stuff. I was planning I getting ready for the wedding and we're just sitting watching live PD. My dad's a police officer. Just chilling on the couch watching live PD just gets up pauses the TV and it looks at me. He's like, I had my psych eval for work the other day and I was like did you that's cool and he goes He said that I'm normal. where the borderline Tendencies and I was like

Becca Ferguson: That I damn near choke down on everything that I had inside me and I was like we might want to look into that before you start telling people that thankfully we have looked into it. He is not gonna go to therapy, but I was like, I think that he needed the guy that was doing a psych eval had one of those computers and that, we used with Dinosaurs the one with the boxes attached to the back of him,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: and I think it was like the DSM too is what yeah,…

Jeremy Schumacher: no.

Becca Ferguson: and so I was like we might need to reevaluate this and look at some trauma that's going on but yeah, I mean, psychology is scary therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and that's the thing. I've talked about a lot on the podcast because I get a lot of religious trauma folks on here. But high control religion teaches you your body is bad, especially if you grow up with some toxic theology around original sin or stuff like that where you're learning not to trust your body. So then listening to your body learning how your brain works like, that's all very scary stuff. which we can Circle back on that but I do want to talk about College counseling a little bit since you brought that up…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: because I spent five years in higher ed and Those poor counselors are almost always burned out because their caseloads are huge and well.

Becca Ferguson: yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: While I don't condone what your College counseling experience what your counselor told you I will have some Grace for those people because colleges as a whole do not support mental health that idea of we're going to cut it because it's not needed or we can't make money off of it is the absolute most backwards approach to how we should be talking about Mental Health.

Becca Ferguson: Yeah, I feel like that original session that I had and obviously when you go through therapy, there's certain sentences that stick out inside your memories right certain things that therapist

00:10:00

Becca Ferguson: I don't remember telling you that but I'm awesome. That's great for reminding me and tell it for thinking about that. I'm glad I made that connection for you. But in that college experience when I'm struggling with this disordered eating. I'm attempting to figure out who it is in my own body. Am I identity? There are some other things that we worked on in that space. was it only five or six sessions. I don't think it was anything. that I was seeing him super long-term, but we never untangled the

Becca Ferguson: Core of what I was dealing with in that space wasn't created for untangling the core of what it was that I was dealing with. It wasn't about development developing my identity. It was about resolving the conflict that was right in front of us, You're not eating. So why are you not eating?

Jeremy Schumacher: check

Becca Ferguson: It's like at that point I had just lost a significant amount of weight. If I don't eat then I stay skinny. So let's just go ahead and just throw it at that out there. I was bullied for how fat I was when I was in high school. So I'm at a new place where I literally know no one because I went to a college away from home. And I'm skinny and people are giving me attention. So I'm going to do whatever it takes in order to keep this attention because no one has treated me with respect before I was skinny and no one knows me as the fat kid that got skinny. Everyone just knows me as cc The normal looking person who's easy to talk to and before that. I was not a quote unquote normal looking person,

Jeremy Schumacher: sure.

Becca Ferguson: and so at least for society because I've had people that have asked me this when I'm overweight versus underweight or I say underway I've never gotten to my BMI weight because that's some b*******. But you…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yes.

Becca Ferguson: whatever weight I'm at. and people treat me differently, people will automatically respect everything that I have to say if I appear to be healthy, but if I'm overweight people are questioning everything that I say or pushing me to the back of the line because I might not practice what it is that I'm preaching and so, if anything that experience kind of put that into perspective for me but I started eating again and I was able to Get things differently. I definitely had a million different trials and tribulations that were happening when I was in college and a lot of unhealthy experiences. And so

Becca Ferguson: Hey, I think crisis Management in College is very warranted. and I've worked in agency settings and Hospital settings. So I understand the cycle right and…

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Becca Ferguson: you constantly have a million clients in a million stories. And there's burnout and then there's people that don't think that you really need to be there. And so yeah he went into private practice. I think when the school let go of the counseling program and there was an option to see him off campus. But again, in order to get it covered by the school you had to tell Your peer like everything that was going on with you and…

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, that's

Becca Ferguson: I was like, I do not know her well enough. So let her know my deepest darkest secrets for her to the side of my therapy gets paid for so I'm good. Peace.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, that's not a good system. and I look at it in terms of systems of knowing Administration is deciding that there's probably not a bunch of student input in those things. And so I don't know it's hard for students to hold that system accountable. There's a big Power imbalance there, but it is also in our current climate like a on top of a mental health cris stacked on top of Mental Health crisis for a lot of I'll go even into High School 14 to 22 year olds, they need some depth and a lot of college campus are approaching.

Becca Ferguson: Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: We'll give you two sessions and then refer you out and that's not helpful for a lot of people.

00:15:00

Becca Ferguson: No, and I had worked in a setting. When I first got my associate license, I worked in a halfway house for men that had recently been released from prison because of Medicaid and payments and all everything that was going in with it. I would see these men I'd be the first Airbus that they would see when they got out of prison and then see them for their three sessions because they would give Medicaid for a month and then all this and they would get Blue Cross or am better and then the therapist needs therapy relationships with people and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm

Becca Ferguson: then say, okay now that you've told me all this really hard stuff and a history intake I'm gonna You on to this other therapist?

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Becca Ferguson: needs and so Those restrictive environments are so bad for mental health, but it's the only way for provisionally licensed therapist the only way for

Becca Ferguson: just The cycle with insurance and everything that goes on and…

Jeremy Schumacher: And Yeah. So…

Becca Ferguson: so it's challenging.

Jeremy Schumacher: what was your journey from? Grad school then to the point where at now owning your own practice doing some of the things we'll get to those things that you focus on professionally now, but …

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: what was that? There's that Journey from getting your hours getting License Agency work usually and then when did private practice kick in for you?

Becca Ferguson: Yeah, so I actually graduated from Henderson University with clinical mental health in December 2019.

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Becca Ferguson: shortly after that. we know what happened in 2020 and so that was a tough year for sure. But at that point in time I had completed my second internship before I graduated and so I actually had Deering grad school. I had two internships and both were in private practice settings. The first one was traditional private practice and the second one was in the halfway house that I worked in.

Becca Ferguson: Then the halfway house that I worked in they really liked me. They wanted me to stay there. So we attempted to build Medicaid. Unfortunately we learned you could do that then Medicaid decided to audit. It was a whole entire shenanigan and then I left and went to an inpatient hospital and so during those experiences though. I'll kind of rewind because sometimes my brain goes into a different directions, but the first internship that I had and It was a very interesting setting. Like I said it was you get a client you go to a room you have a session with them you see them again next week. And they're either pro bono or low cost and you're the intern that's what it is that you do.

Becca Ferguson: And inside the supervision sessions and I can also understand this now as a business owner and a therapist. Sometimes you're just overwhelmed, but I was consistently in supervision with the supervisor who was on their laptop answering emails. not really paying attention to what I was saying when I was trying to go cases and when I was like, every single one of my clients is a suggesting life transitions. So I give them adjustment disorder, right? It's like, yep, you just give them adjustment disorder. And so I wasn't thinking about diagnosing. I wasn't really working through and understanding the different diagnoses that were going on and then the supervisor hit that I had at the time was trying to make it to where

Becca Ferguson: It was a comfortable space where I could talk about my own issues and going through that Conservative Christian religious abusive environment that I had been in when I was younger. I was still in that environment because where I went to school was in my hometown. And so I had left the youth ministry gig and the person that was my abuser when I was growing up was my youth minister. And so physically mentally abusive the whole nine yards from the time. I was 12 until I left the church And so it was a good 10 plus years of that abuse.

00:20:00

Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm

Becca Ferguson: And so when I stopped being a youth Minister he was very skeptical about me going into counseling obviously because he had no control over it and then I started dating my husband which he really didn't like because now there's another man that's giving me attention and advice and Telling me that I'm worth something and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Becca Ferguson: he is the only one that should be telling me that I'm worth something because I need to be worth something to a point so I can give him what he needs. so I was battling with those experiences not really knowing that that was abusive at that time. I didn't know that grown men weren't supposed to hit teenagers that was not something that I was taught. I didn't know what gaslighting was. I didn't know what trauma Bonds were.

Jeremy Schumacher: Here, yeah.

Becca Ferguson: I mean, they don't but they don't teach you this stuff and grad school. And they teach you modalities and theories and old dead people, but they don't teach you about the things that you're really doing inside the counseling room. And so I'm getting these clients that are struggling with trauma and I'm over here relating to it and understanding it and then I'm telling the supervisor. I'm like, this is making me think of this and I'm trying to figure it out, too. and ultimately I let go from that internship because The belief was that I could not have PTSD and be a therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: Very for those of you who won't get the video and just see the product here the podcast I'm smirking real hard at s***, that's not accurate.

Jeremy Schumacher: Bet bad news. I need to end the podcast because none of us get therapy.

Becca Ferguson: Yeah, yeah And so you can kind of see how all this is piecing together now and so it got to a point where she was so intent on the fact that I shouldn't be a therapist.

Becca Ferguson: And he calls me and he says Why do I have a three minute voicemail from your supervisor for your internship saying that you shouldn't be a therapist? Download on him and just tell him. This is everything that's happened. And he said you have one week find another internship spot. And so I did and went to the halfway house and it was a great learning experience for me there and the supervisor that I had was very different again also business owner and also very busy but better experience when I told her I was I'm giving everyone adjustment disorders. She was like no stop. And so then I got very passionate about trauma and PTSD and adjustment disorder and in been working through all that.

Becca Ferguson: And I've always been a person of community as well. So when I was messaging our board and saying I need answers for this. I don't understand this about my license and they were responding. I started a support group for provisionally licensed therapist.

Becca Ferguson: And ultimately when I left that halfway house and went to an inpatient hospital and started seeing people that literally less than 24 hours ago were trying to kill themselves. I was like,…

00:25:00

Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm

Becca Ferguson: I love trauma. But just as any impatient hospital or agency, you can't see 35 clients in one day and feel like a human at the end of the day. And so it was very challenging.

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Becca Ferguson: I ended up working with serious mental illness while I was there and just did not like that because I didn't have the patience for it and it was very for me. And so I ultimately left that after nine or ten months. And then finished out my associate license working for an online Telehealth company that shall not be named and that It offered me an incredible salary incredible benefits. I was like, my work-life balance is incredible. I love this. This is amazing and then two months later we cannot absorb the cost of your salaries and benefits. So we're cutting salary and benefits effective immediately and I was right back at the bottom and…

Jeremy Schumacher: 

Becca Ferguson: I said I had and 200 hours. Left to go and it was going to take me another year doing this outpatient Private Practice type kind of setting so I got on the crisis tax line. I pulled some 12-hour shifts on the crisis text line to finish up my hours and in that last hour that I had I just remember standing at my computer crying one more person says they want to kill themselves. I can't do it anymore. And I was just so challenged and It is difficult, but then it got to a point where I finally got my hours. I got my license. I got credentialed with Insurance I was going to go solo but I ended up joining a group which was great transition, and then eventually I left there. And create and so my resume is extensive and…

Jeremy Schumacher: you just say you did the speed run of get into private practice…

Becca Ferguson: I've been through it. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: because Some of us that process that you went through takes 10 12 years and I'm gonna do it all real quick.

Becca Ferguson: So I completed my Lac in a year and a half and that was my associate license. Sorry for those that aren't using the terminology but I completed my associate license in the year and a half. And so I had gotten 1500 direct hours in the 10 months that I worked at the inpatient hospital. I was very That I'm going into private practice and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: I had a goal that I wanted to be in my terminal license when I got married because I wanted to just start fresh with everything. I did not want to have to go through a name change with licensure and insurance and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: everything. And so I was like we're doing this all at once this is happening and all that kind of stuff. So I was very determined. If you ask the supervisor that I ended up keeping through my whole entire Lac and she probably tell you the same thing that I was just outside my window of tolerance for the whole entire year and a half. I was just in fight or…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: flight let's go and then all the sudden it was like, I don't know how to not do things and I Must Destroy. everything life

Jeremy Schumacher: and Again, there's a lot of stuff in there that I think we could talk about internship placements really matter and…

Becca Ferguson: Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: a lot of colleges grad programs advertise good placement, but not enough students. No, and this was my situation too. Not enough students know I had a Time how to check that because that's very much about finding a good fit.

Becca Ferguson: temperature

Jeremy Schumacher: And what happens is they have good placement and putting that quotes because they can put you in a hospital setting or a homeless sheer. I worked at a homeless Shel Here they can put you in this place where you're seeing really high intensity clients for short bursts of time and you're going to get your hours, but you're not really learning how to do therapy.

Jeremy Schumacher: And then once you graduate with your hours or you graduate and you don't have your full license you go work for a hospital setting or you go take a 1099 position where you're getting half of your paycheck goes to the agency just to finish your hours.

Becca Ferguson: Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: And again, if you don't have good supervision, if you don't have a good supervisor who is actually getting to know you working with you towards your own therapeutic goals like you miss out on so much stuff just in this kind of cookie cutter education system. We have of everyone's gonna get the same Factory approach and I think it hurts the profession because a lot of us come out of grad school with our license and we know how to do the first two or three sessions and then kind of like, what do we do now?

00:30:00

Becca Ferguson: It's yeah, I feel like I nailed those first three sessions down to a tee. I knew how to do an intake man. I got a rocking intake like nobody's business. I can rock it intake with someone that's completely dissociative the whole entire time and not present I can get that information real easily. I learned how to do that. And when I went into private practice, it was a whole other setting like you potentially might see me for a couple months or a year or two years. then all of a sudden you're faced with how do I keep this? Interesting? and how do I be patient? to that was something that I think the fast pace part of my internship didn't teach me how it's like

Becca Ferguson: You are so focused because the environments are built for you to resolve a problem in a certain length of time. And then you go into this outpatient Private Practice world where I have some clients that I've been seeing for two years and we're still working on the presenting problem that they came in with,

Becca Ferguson: Which I love now, but it was a shock at the beginning because I was like Let's get this working goals goals and then all the sudden I'm like Becca, you have to slow down. They're not ready for this like they're coming to you because they're not ready for it. and that's just challenging to understand and process there needs to be more education with actually how to do therapy which I'm hopeful that I can bring that at some point in time my career. that's a goal. that's not only a goal. That's pipe dream, but I am working on it. So

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and like you said grad modalities were taught Theory. We're not really taught. we're doing It's a long time ago for me. But hating to do these fake sessions with your other classmates who don't know how to like And we're recording them and…

Becca Ferguson: my gosh. Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: we don't know what we're doing. I did look into a good intern placement where I actually learned…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: how to do therapy then and did my postgrad right away because I loved my supervisors at that place. But the call the grad school setting was not…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: where I learned how to do therapy in any way shape or form.

Becca Ferguson: No, no, I'm a hoarder and not with physical things but with digital files and so I have all the old videos that I have. Internship and grad school in a Dropbox and I remember I watched it a year ago. And I'm sorry,…

Jeremy Schumacher: You

Becca Ferguson: I have a spider on my floor. And so I'm like cause if you see me looking at it, it's because I'm just making sure it doesn't get close to me this whole entire time.

Jeremy Schumacher: You can address the spider situation.

Jeremy Schumacher: I support that I'm arachnophobe. So

Becca Ferguson: I Okay.

Becca Ferguson: So if you hear a brick drop, please Don't Judge Me pause for the cause. we can edit this out.

Becca Ferguson: It has been annihilated. so

Jeremy Schumacher: what there was a scream of camera?

Becca Ferguson: you can keep that if you want it's because I put the brick down and I only got one leg of it. And so it got away and I was like you need eight legs to function but besides that.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. That's it's one of the reasons I haven't left the Midwest yet is because it's cold where we don't have large spiders. And that's a win for me.

Becca Ferguson: We get mice in the winter. And so that's a whole other thing. I'm okay with spiders because we have three cats, but all my cats are being lazy ass right now. and I'm a little unappreciative of that. Okay, so sorry. Internships, that's where we were at, right?

Jeremy Schumacher: Internships grad school doesn't teach you anything?

Becca Ferguson: Yeah. For Yeah. No, I think I watched some of those videos from when I was in grad school and one of the things that I noticed, I remember this actually vividly sitting in a conference room table with one of my classmates and I had a bottle of water with me. I'm always the person that Gary is a bottle of water with me wherever I go. I remember being nervous to drink the water like that was something that I was really nervous on My client's going to judge me if I drink water in front of them because then they're thinking that I'm not paying attention. these are things that are going through my head and these are things that are not addressed in the classroom,

00:35:00

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: And things that aren't addressed in real life. I mean, how are you supposed to understand if you can't address these things?

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and when you have a good supervisor you have a good teacher. I remember one of my supervisors talking about she wore slippers to session Sophie get cold just like it's not a better reason than that. This is what makes me comfortable if I'm comfortable my clients are more comfortable and I'm more present for them who talks about if I'm hungry. I'm gonna have a sandwich. I'm gonna offer half of it to my client so that it's not weird and they might decline they might take me up on it. It's okay either way, but I need to be able to be present for them.

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And so again, you're not learning that stuff in class. If you have a good supervisor, they're teaching you some of those things and…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: I learned a lot from her but it's just one of those things where that's not and in grad school you're doing made up sessions made up people with other grad students who don't know anything about mental health either.

Becca Ferguson: and then you're scared to talk about what you're going through in those made up scenarios and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: I tell this story a lot but one of the very first grad school classes that I had and knowing that it took me, two years to go through grad school two years two and a half years or whatever it was but one of the very first grad school classes, we were talking about diagnosing but it was in my theories class And I'm in there we're learning about things and I raised my hand I said, so if you have a client that is hitting people or lashing out or stealing things that's an adult male. that's not Oppositional Defiant would that be intermittent explosive disorder and instead of actually going through that response the professor was like this is happening to you isn't it? You need to go to therapy and it was like

Becca Ferguson: I just got called out in front of all these people that I have no idea and now there's this. Image of me at least I'm saying wow, she's weak. Right because she's not separating inside of this. You have to be a professional and a professional can't have. mental health challenges or question What's going on? And I think it almost goes back to that black and white thinking with religious trauma that we see as well is either you're good at what you do and you have no problems or you're bad at what you do because you have and it's like The fat kid can't teach an exercise class, this whole concept of like you have to be…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Becca Ferguson: what you preach. And that is so freaking challenging.

Becca Ferguson: When you're a therapist needs therapy sessions, but how the hell are we supposed to do that when we're not even taught what it is that we're really doing in the club in and outside of the classroom and the therapy room. It's so challenging.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and so much of that I think kind of complain about capitalism here but is based on we're learning how to diagnose from a medical model so that we get reimbursed not because it's…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: what fits for the client not because what's helpful for our clients were approached with that ghost of Freud. Where were this Blank Slate of a therapist need?

Becca Ferguson: Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: I find younger theist therapy. We need to be able to help our clients and not have our own s***. Take over the session but I think to show up genuinely and authentically is very validating for clients and their experiences. I talk about parenting a lot with my clients. We do couple stuff and My house sister too. don't worry. it's not worth having a panic attack over. It's okay that we don't have everything perfect all the time.

Becca Ferguson: All right. Yeah, I think. Showing up authentically and genuinely is so freaking critical and therapy any other is that blank slate thing that you were talking about that it's this image of who were supposed to be? I know I've niched down so much of my clients held they don't want that. They want the stories. They want the metaphors. they look for that. But when I was working outside of the nation, I'm comfortable with they didn't want that at all. And so a lot of it is being a therapist. who the hell am I focusing on who is it that I'm working on and making sure that I'm not just like

00:40:00

Becca Ferguson: Throwing s* against the wall and hoping it sticks you're good at something. Let's figure out what you're good at and focus on that and documentation like I'm actually working on a coach some therapist needs therapy. That's something I'm very passionate about and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Becca Ferguson: I had one of my coaching clients asked me I don't want to put that a client is being dramatic on that MSE because That's rude and I was like, but it's appropriate for the diagnosis. Right? …

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Becca Ferguson: s what if the diagnosis has that in the behavioral definition then put that we're not saying We're saying that the client has dramatic personality traits appropriate to the diagnosis and I think that therapist be empathetic human beings that genuinely care about the person that's coming into our room. So to write these notes and to do this diagnosing that's like I'm making my client look like absolute s*** on this paper and it's like no no where we're doing. Is to protect them. We're doing this.

Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm

Becca Ferguson: Medical model notes to protect them so their insurance pays further therapy and so because let's use the system if we're going to have a s* system, right? So their insurance pays for the therapy and in case we ever have to go to court like we've got it all right there, right and it's a very challenging thing to be an empathetic therapist. It's just so unnatural in. I try and make it as comforting as possible.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and yeah documentation is a whole separate thing again, just the medical model that's slapped on to the therapeutic model. And those should be two different professions that are approached differently. But yeah,…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: let's segue into what you work with now because part of what you do is therapy for therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: It sounds like some of that came from you needed to teach yourself how to do it because you didn't get it in grad school. So now you have this template for how to help other people with that.

Becca Ferguson: yeah, so I was just to give you guys if you have a vivid imagination then close your eyes and listen to this or imagine this right, but I was third grade kid that my parents put a whiteboard on the wall in my bedroom and I had a* ton of stuffed animals like a lot of them and I still do my husband every single time we get into bed. He's always on my side of the bed and I'm like, sorry get over it. But I had a daybed in my bedroom and a whiteboard on the wall and whenever I was struggling With anything I would teach that concept to my stuffed animals. And so I knew it some way I was gonna be a teacher and that's how I am inside of the therapy room and when I'm coaching with people so

Becca Ferguson: the therapy that I provide for therapist. That's the environment like that's where I have it. I have my office in Springdale, Arkansas therapist.

Becca Ferguson: The coaching that I provide is very different. It's that we get to this moment inside of our head. as therapist

00:45:00

Becca Ferguson: some outpatient work in quotes through the Telehealth company. And then also, trying to figure out. how this was applying to my own values my own belief systems everything that happened in 2020 was happening and a lot of political things and you have your own Faith crisis that's going on with and so I work really best on helping therapist.

Becca Ferguson: Idea that you come into this coaching atmosphere. I'm in a group practice, but the values don't really align with my values. I don't really know what my values are. But every time I work with this type of client, I feel like I connect really well with them. And so I'm working on understanding how trauma your past experiences really relate to your Niche. Right? And then I'm also like what is your Niche? What is it that you want to work on? How do you want to put yourself out there? You have gone to a lot of continuing education trainings. Which ones did you relate the most with? Where did you feel like you connected the most?

Becca Ferguson: And then being able to say I see these things in your personal life. This is probably the type of therapist needs therapy like coaching doesn't solve everything and so it's like I'm helping you develop a business or I'm helping you understand documentation. Or I'm helping you understand your Niche or I'm helping you create your value belief system. Whatever it is that I can do and then saying, maybe this modality would be really good. Why aren't you try someone that has this modality or Theory base and go, explore that with your own trauma there because state lines prevent us from

Becca Ferguson: doing therapy across state lines with your license, but I mean, I love doing that. I love working with therapist. needs

Becca Ferguson: let's lay it all out here and figure out what we're dealing with. and when my caseload filled up to the point where it was like, my gosh, I don't have any more room and I turned my practice which is the therapy office and into a group practice and every therapist therapist.

Becca Ferguson: Tried to create a space for Careers and how it's playing a big part in their day-to-day life, too. And so that's a little bit about what I do and how I work through it and it takes a lot though. And sometimes my brain is very ADHD so I Branch out in so many different ways I have provisional license support group and then I have coaching and then I do this type of coaching and that type of coaching and all these different prongs and then I have online courses and I

Becca Ferguson: I just do all of the stuff because it's what I love to do, I love to build and develop models, but I also love to learn and I love to. teach and so it's a process for sure, but it's a good process.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I think I've talked about it with some other guests who've been on the podcast talking about there are different chapters in our career. There are different things, especially my nerve Divergent therapist. Right, if you have ADHD and you hyperfocus that might look like a certain Niche for a couple years and…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

00:50:00

Jeremy Schumacher: then it might shift and if you've been in the profession for 15 years you're gonna be able to look back and say I worked for this point. I work with this for this point. I relate a lot to what you're saying Coaching and teaching because I've said four years coaching teaching and therapy are all the same skill set just applied in a different context and…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: so I have a background in sports performance and actually coaching Sports.

Becca Ferguson: nice

Jeremy Schumacher: And so that's different than being an instructor at the college level being different than doing therapy. But it's the similar skills. I apply them differently given the different contexts and…

Becca Ferguson: Yes.

Jeremy Schumacher: I think

Jeremy Schumacher: Helping people with where they're at. Some people want They want to do the existential crisis and the question and do that work and they don't want guidance. They just want someone to see them to witness that and share space with them. Some people want to be coached some people want I am in crisis help me. And that looks a little different and…

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: so being able to meet our clients where they're at and help them with what their specifically looking for I think is what actually doing client-based therapy looks like instead of saying I do it this way. And so hopefully all my clients respond well to Whatever modality I picked in grad school.

Becca Ferguson: I think it's I mean and I did the modality test whenever I was in grad school too. That was like you're this type of therapist therapy and I'm like no s*** Sherlock I mean, I hope that's what I do, but I'm one of those therapist. First of all, I have a recovering people pleaser and so I usually can't say hey this isn't a good fit when they're in person, but man was over the phone. I got it like I can do that. And so I do a heavy screening and

Becca Ferguson: and I'm very real with my clients. I use my personal experiences and my clinical knowledge to base how I do therapy and when it comes to my expertise and religious trauma and fully aware that that is very professional and personal And I have clients because I live in Arkansas. I know I have clients that are of the Christian faith and some of them are of the Christian faith and currently going through religious trauma, but don't recognize it yet. And so I'm the type of therapist.

Becca Ferguson: And you want to understand scripture a little bit more. I've got my bibli. Look, let's go ahead. Let's go to town. Let's open it up. I'm not going to say Hey, I went through deconstruction. You have to go through deconstruction. Too, you…

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Becca Ferguson: which I feel like there are some therapist.

Becca Ferguson: I'm definitely here for it. Honestly. I just want to create a space. for therapist needs therapy sessions with men and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm

Becca Ferguson: because I'm coming home and I'm hearing gaslighting behaviors in the office and then I come home and my husband says something like Sliding me and he is like no and I'm like that's what a gas later would say and he's like I'm leaving this conversation and you would leave because you would get more power, and so I found myself projecting which is why it's critical for therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.

Becca Ferguson: and when I'm in sessions, I always say the sense. I'm like, I don't have ADHD you have ADHD, we're all just trying to figure out you you said something 10 minutes ago. And I'm gonna be like wait. No, you said this hold on that connects like that just clicked in my brain and we're gonna go through this process. So it's a interesting atmosphere. I love what I do and I love the freedom that it gives me and so when I saw your podcast I was like, yeah, not only am I called out because I'm currently in the process of looking for my own therapist.

00:55:00

Becca Ferguson: all the good therapist need therapy that are out there that are listening to this if there's something that's keeping you from it.

Becca Ferguson: I mean check your own self. if it is you that's getting in the way of your own healing. we have such big boundaries that we put up 24/7 that we're afraid to go into those vulnerable relationships with anybody else. And I'm here to help guide you through it.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah,…

Becca Ferguson: I'm an email.

Jeremy Schumacher: and you brought up that even after religion in the psychology field dogma of any kind can be harmful when we're two dogmatic about that.

Becca Ferguson: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: So when I highlight that and I think transference isn't just between therapist therapist.

Becca Ferguson: Yep.

Jeremy Schumacher: Or whatever and so we might be great in the room with clients, but we're still carrying that stuff somewhere and so having space to explore that to be able to work through that in a healthy way is really great and you're in Arkansas. I'm in Wisconsin sometimes it's a lot of work to find a therapist.

Becca Ferguson: Yep.

Becca Ferguson: Yeah, and the awesome thing is that we have access to Telehealth now and so Telehealth allows us to go outside of our immediate Social Circles to find the best fit inside of our state and For someone that could really be, helpful for us. and so I know I have therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.

Becca Ferguson: it very important. if you're going to be a therapist needs therapy office and developing up a professional atmosphere for change. And so it's a fun little experience for sure.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, This has been awesome if people want to learn more about you if they want to check out your practice if they want to find the stuff you're putting out on the internet some of these online classes and workshop type things. Where do they find your stuff?

Becca Ferguson: Yeah, so if you just Google Becca Ferguson LPC, then I pop up which I'm very thankful for that. But if you are a fan of the office like Steve Carell is a genius fan in the office and then check out my therapy office. It's called the therapy office themed after the office which I can't take all the credit for my husband that came up with the idea, which I'm

Becca Ferguson: I wish that I would have been it but that's beside the point. it's not a competition it's fine but I own the therapy office in Springdale Arkansas. If you are a therapist needs therapy, you're looking for a good fit. I have several clinicians that have immediate availabilities and ready to welcome you in and find your space so you can find me on therapy office ar.com or Becca Ferguson lpc.com and I would love to talk with you and figure out what it is that you want to deal with.

Jeremy Schumacher: And we will have all those links in the show notes. So they're easy to find Thanks so much for taking the time and chatting today. And to all our wonderful listeners,…

Becca Ferguson: Of course, I'm here for it. I love doing this kind of stuff. So I'm glad we can chat.

Jeremy Schumacher: thanks for tuning in again. We will be back next week with another new episode. Take care everyone.

Meeting ended after 00:59:49 👋