Your Therapist Needs Therapy 49 - Existing in a Healthy Ecosystem with Kelsey Philippi

Jeremy is joined for a fascinating conversation by Kelsey Philippi from ERA Wellness. Kelsey shares her journey of becoming a therapist from a background in biology and research before eventually landing in the mental health field, how couples and families exist as their own ecosystems, and how nature helps us to ground, center, and heal.

To learn more about Kelsey, you can head over to erawellnesstherapy.com, or you can check out the calendar to see the next Full Moon Circle that Kelsey talked about during the episode. You can also follow ERA Wellness over on Instagram to get updates.

Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube.

Head over to Patreon to support the show, or you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well!

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

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So hello and welcome to

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another edition of Your

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Therapist Needs Therapy,

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the podcast where two

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mental health professionals

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talk about their mental

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health journeys and how

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they navigate mental

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wellness work in the mental health field.

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I'm your host, Jeremy Schumacher,

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licensed marriage and family therapist.

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To support the show, head over to Patreon,

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drop down in the show notes.

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We've got merch.

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We've got all sorts of stuff.

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We're trying to be a real podcast,

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finally.

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So this week,

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I'm super stoked to join

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another local Milwaukee therapist.

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I love the community building in the area,

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and I'm super stoked to

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talk about some of the

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background and how my guest

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this week got into the field.

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So I'm joined by Kelsey Philippi.

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Philippi, we talked about it,

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and I got it wrong.

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Philippi.

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Thank you.

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I'm so glad to be here.

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And I love the connection.

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I've had Emily, who you work with,

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Alexi on the podcast in the past,

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doing groups together.

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So like this little

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community we're starting to

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build in Milwaukee, which is really nice.

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And I love pulling people on

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who have different

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backgrounds and specialties

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than me to talk about how

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people can connect to

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resources in the area.

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So super stoked to have you.

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I am so thrilled to be here.

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Emily talked about her experience and

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just had such wonderful things to say,

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and you're about to run a group at ERA,

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so I'm stoked to hear how it goes.

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Yeah,

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and we'll maybe talk about that a

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little bit later.

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I always start with the same question,

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which is,

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how'd you get into the field of

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mental health?

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It is a nonlinear journey,

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like so many of us.

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I actually started as a

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wildlife biologist.

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And worked in wildlife

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ecology for about four

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years and then took another

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nonlinear shift into

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working in fertility for four years.

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And there were a lot of

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overlaps in some of the

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things that I was seeing

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both in wildlife ecology and in fertility,

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sort of ironically, unexpectedly.

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Those don't seem like things

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that would overlap all that much.

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Right.

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But there was a lot of internalized taboo.

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or stigma, shame, feelings of isolation,

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not feeling like someone was understood.

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And when I worked in fertility, I had,

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I worked in the front desk

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for about six months,

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and I would see people

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change in the waiting room

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over the course of their treatment.

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So you could really see that

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physical shift in energy

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and despair and grief.

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And

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since I had left the field

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of wildlife ecology,

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I actually saw the same

00:04:06.307 --> 00:04:06.927
things happening in my

00:04:06.967 --> 00:04:08.248
friends and my former

00:04:08.269 --> 00:04:09.530
colleagues of not

00:04:09.569 --> 00:04:10.349
necessarily having the

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words to frame the

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experience that they were having,

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but definitely not feeling

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understood and having this

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really ambiguous grief happening.

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So I decided to go to grad school.

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because it was the middle of the pandemic.

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And actually,

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it was the very beginning of

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the pandemic.

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And I thought,

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what better way to deal with

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the world ending than to

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add grad school onto a full-time job?

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So I did.

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And I had been thinking

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about it for several years

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and hadn't had the confidence to apply.

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And I didn't.

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just did yeah and I got in

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it was great so I finished

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up at northwestern um in

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march of 2023 I've been

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doing this for a full year

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yeah now lacking the

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confidence and then getting

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into like a big time school

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like that imposter syndrome right

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oh yeah just challenged it

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head on yeah um it was the

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only school I applied to

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nice and I really lucked

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out yeah I had a great

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experience really lovely

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mentors wonderful

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classmates um I did the

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online program which was

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really important to me because it was

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during the pandemic when

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everything went virtual.

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And they had an established

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online program before the pandemic.

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But also,

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I didn't know where I was going to live.

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So I grew up in Chicago.

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I lived in Chicago.

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I knew I didn't want to stay in Illinois,

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but I wasn't sure where it

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was going to end up.

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So for licensing, I thought, oh,

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this school has connections everywhere.

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I will go here.

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And so now I have a really

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strong referral network

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across all the states, which is awesome.

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Yeah, that is very cool.

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And I'm biased because I'm a Big Ten alum.

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I went to University of Minnesota,

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but like... I went to undergrad at IU,

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so... Yay!

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But yeah, I mean,

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there's something to be said, I think,

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about finding a school that's a good fit.

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But as we are professionals

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and get out into the field,

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there's a lot more to be

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said for a school that has

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good name recognition.

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Like I did my master's at Marquette,

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which is not a small school,

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not well known, but...

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everyone cares that I went

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to Minnesota because it's

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such a big psych school.

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So like when I talk to

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people in the profession, like, oh,

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you went to Minnesota,

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still carries a lot of weight.

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And like, I don't know.

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I think that's meaningful.

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I think so too.

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And I think that, you know,

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my undergrad degrees,

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I have a BA in anthropology

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and a BS in animal behavior.

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And all those, those aren't,

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clinical mental health related,

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they inform a lot of how I practice.

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Sure.

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Using ecology as a way of

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informing how we as part of

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an ecological system exist.

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Yes.

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And we as animals exist is a

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really important part of my practice.

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Yeah.

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And I was so stoked to see

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that background and see

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kind of how you took that.

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and found your way into the

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field because I,

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I approached it from a

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different perspective, but, uh,

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I went to grad school and

00:07:04.740 --> 00:07:06.543
got my post-grad right away in marriage,

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family, marriage and family therapy.

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Uh, and so it's, uh, we study cybernetics.

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We study systems thinkers,

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like family therapy grew

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out of anthropology.

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And so it's like this weird,

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like you took this different route.

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You took kind of a literal

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route of having

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anthropology and animal biology,

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but like,

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family systems grew out of

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that field in the 1950s in

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the first place.

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Like we'd say cybernetics

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now and we think computers,

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but that was really about

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how do we get systems

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talking to each other?

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Because back in the day,

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the computers had to be

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like plugged into each other.

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And so it's so fascinating, I think,

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to hear kind of like the

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practice you're doing and your approach,

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because it makes a lot of

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sense to how I was taught.

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I was just taught like, oh,

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this grew from this field

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where you kind of were in

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the fields and made those

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connections yourself.

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Totally.

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Yeah.

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I kept being like, Ooh,

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I feel like I'm close,

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but I'm not quite where I want to be.

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And then when I landed in mental health,

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I was like, ah,

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this was all headed this direction.

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I just had no idea.

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This is where it would end up.

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Yeah.

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And so still working with

00:08:08.213 --> 00:08:09.334
the perinatal specialty.

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Yes.

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Yep.

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So I still work with a lot

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of perinatal clients.

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I love that life stage.

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So much transition happens

00:08:19.997 --> 00:08:22.678
in terms of the socio-ecological system,

00:08:23.259 --> 00:08:24.978
interpsychically, interpersonally,

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community-based, systems-based.

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So that is one of my

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favorite stages of life to work with.

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I have a lot of folks who

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find me for climate

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psychology concerns as well.

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Because of my background in

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wildlife ecology,

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I really draw in a lot of

00:08:41.121 --> 00:08:42.081
that into the work.

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But also kind of generalized anxiety,

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depression, which is sort of the usual.

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I love trauma.

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I'm also trained in EMDR,

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so I do a lot of trauma.

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Sure.

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Which can be there between

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all those other specialties

00:08:55.923 --> 00:08:56.883
that you work with, right?

00:08:57.264 --> 00:08:57.683
Absolutely.

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And I like having,

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this sounds mean to be like

00:09:02.846 --> 00:09:03.488
a newer therapist,

00:09:03.508 --> 00:09:04.628
but like I have all these

00:09:04.648 --> 00:09:05.908
therapists on who are my age,

00:09:05.969 --> 00:09:07.210
been in the field for a decade or more.

00:09:07.330 --> 00:09:07.610
And like,

00:09:07.710 --> 00:09:08.931
we didn't have good grad school

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experiences.

00:09:09.991 --> 00:09:11.232
We weren't well prepared for

00:09:11.273 --> 00:09:12.413
something like trauma.

00:09:12.452 --> 00:09:13.573
And we had to go back and do

00:09:13.594 --> 00:09:14.875
all this training and get all this stuff.

00:09:14.894 --> 00:09:16.655
So it was really great to hear like, A,

00:09:16.716 --> 00:09:17.616
you had a good program.

00:09:18.297 --> 00:09:20.399
And that you were probably

00:09:20.418 --> 00:09:21.360
more well-informed than a

00:09:21.379 --> 00:09:21.961
bunch of people who have

00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:23.121
been in the field for 20

00:09:23.121 --> 00:09:24.243
years coming out in your

00:09:24.283 --> 00:09:25.224
first year just because of

00:09:25.283 --> 00:09:26.004
how the field has

00:09:26.065 --> 00:09:28.106
progressed to train people

00:09:28.187 --> 00:09:28.988
on these things and

00:09:29.028 --> 00:09:30.068
introduce something like

00:09:30.129 --> 00:09:31.711
trauma seriously from your

00:09:32.091 --> 00:09:33.312
training instead of being like,

00:09:34.812 --> 00:09:35.874
if you want to specialize in that,

00:09:35.894 --> 00:09:36.674
you can learn about it.

00:09:36.855 --> 00:09:37.054
Right.

00:09:37.075 --> 00:09:38.235
Trauma is for some people,

00:09:38.355 --> 00:09:39.836
but not everyone.

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Right.

00:09:40.336 --> 00:09:40.577
Yeah.

00:09:40.618 --> 00:09:41.557
I think that I,

00:09:42.678 --> 00:09:43.820
I appreciate that recognition,

00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:45.160
but I also am a new therapist.

00:09:45.301 --> 00:09:46.121
Like that's just a fact.

00:09:47.043 --> 00:09:48.543
It sounds pejorative for

00:09:48.563 --> 00:09:50.384
some reason in my head.

00:09:50.585 --> 00:09:51.405
I didn't mean it that way.

00:09:51.426 --> 00:09:51.806
It's not.

00:09:53.327 --> 00:09:53.508
But I,

00:09:53.748 --> 00:09:54.788
I also think that there was a lot of

00:09:54.889 --> 00:09:56.049
benefit in conversation

00:09:56.429 --> 00:09:58.471
surrounding trauma work

00:09:58.532 --> 00:09:59.511
specifically because we

00:09:59.532 --> 00:10:00.072
were going through

00:10:00.566 --> 00:10:02.407
a global traumatic event.

00:10:03.168 --> 00:10:04.568
So I started grad school in

00:10:04.589 --> 00:10:05.188
September of 2020.

00:10:05.188 --> 00:10:07.650
That was my first time.

00:10:07.811 --> 00:10:09.932
So we were in the thick of it.

00:10:10.033 --> 00:10:11.553
Yeah, no vaccine yet, no nothing.

00:10:11.653 --> 00:10:12.234
Yeah.

00:10:12.774 --> 00:10:13.634
And that really informed a

00:10:13.674 --> 00:10:14.556
lot of the conversations we

00:10:14.596 --> 00:10:18.599
had in our cohorts from different places,

00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:19.860
different regions in the

00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:22.361
country and what we were seeing.

00:10:22.562 --> 00:10:22.721
Yeah.

00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:24.240
what we were preparing for

00:10:24.461 --> 00:10:25.221
entering the fields.

00:10:25.461 --> 00:10:25.642
Yeah.

00:10:26.201 --> 00:10:26.423
Yeah.

00:10:26.682 --> 00:10:27.322
And I think, I mean,

00:10:27.423 --> 00:10:28.144
carrying that into the

00:10:28.183 --> 00:10:29.524
climate crisis makes it sound a sense.

00:10:29.565 --> 00:10:31.365
This is a global experience.

00:10:31.385 --> 00:10:32.506
This isn't something that

00:10:32.606 --> 00:10:33.727
just affects one region or

00:10:33.748 --> 00:10:34.729
just affects one person.

00:10:35.249 --> 00:10:36.230
Similar to the pandemic was

00:10:36.250 --> 00:10:37.071
a worldwide thing.

00:10:37.171 --> 00:10:38.971
Like climate change and the

00:10:38.991 --> 00:10:40.113
climate crisis is an

00:10:40.253 --> 00:10:43.034
ongoing worldwide thing

00:10:43.836 --> 00:10:45.576
that I would say not enough

00:10:45.596 --> 00:10:46.477
people talk about.

00:10:46.618 --> 00:10:47.538
And so the people who feel

00:10:47.578 --> 00:10:48.379
it very strongly,

00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.441
they kind of feel almost on

00:10:50.461 --> 00:10:51.221
an Island sometimes.

00:10:51.701 --> 00:10:52.321
Absolutely.

00:10:52.341 --> 00:10:53.802
I think the biggest thing I

00:10:54.402 --> 00:10:55.481
hear from clients who are

00:10:55.501 --> 00:10:56.461
specifically coming in for

00:10:56.501 --> 00:10:57.722
climate-related concerns is,

00:10:57.743 --> 00:10:59.763
I feel like I'm the only

00:10:59.883 --> 00:11:01.024
one who thinks about this.

00:11:02.443 --> 00:11:03.984
Or I feel so isolated in

00:11:04.284 --> 00:11:05.644
this experience because how

00:11:05.705 --> 00:11:07.825
can other people not be concerned?

00:11:08.885 --> 00:11:10.306
I would love to not be concerned,

00:11:10.326 --> 00:11:12.586
but how am I supposed to

00:11:12.606 --> 00:11:16.288
function day to day when I'm getting...

00:11:17.182 --> 00:11:19.224
bombarded with horrific news

00:11:19.624 --> 00:11:21.946
or the weather feels wonky

00:11:22.506 --> 00:11:25.649
or how am I supposed to, as an individual,

00:11:26.549 --> 00:11:27.910
impact any of these shifts

00:11:27.951 --> 00:11:29.052
that really should be

00:11:29.111 --> 00:11:31.313
happening on a systems level?

00:11:33.416 --> 00:11:34.677
So I think that there's a

00:11:34.756 --> 00:11:37.678
lot of overlap between a

00:11:37.719 --> 00:11:38.460
lot of the things or

00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:39.041
concerns that were

00:11:39.081 --> 00:11:41.503
happening in deeper COVID

00:11:41.523 --> 00:11:43.104
times where there were more

00:11:43.144 --> 00:11:45.265
restrictions and with folks who are

00:11:46.201 --> 00:11:47.803
still concerned about COVID,

00:11:49.245 --> 00:11:49.826
as they should be,

00:11:51.931 --> 00:11:52.631
and the climate crisis.

00:11:53.888 --> 00:11:54.048
Yeah.

00:11:54.248 --> 00:11:54.607
Well,

00:11:54.788 --> 00:11:55.788
and talking about still being

00:11:55.808 --> 00:11:56.808
concerned about COVID, I mean,

00:11:57.048 --> 00:11:57.909
seeing perinatal,

00:11:58.269 --> 00:11:59.289
like that's when people are

00:11:59.309 --> 00:12:00.171
going to be high at risk.

00:12:00.230 --> 00:12:01.951
That's when you have a lot

00:12:01.991 --> 00:12:03.091
of fluctuation and what you

00:12:03.111 --> 00:12:03.993
can and can't take for

00:12:04.033 --> 00:12:05.613
medication and all this other stuff.

00:12:05.653 --> 00:12:07.374
So I think it's, it's fascinating.

00:12:07.433 --> 00:12:09.674
I have my clients who have young kids,

00:12:09.794 --> 00:12:11.635
like very young children

00:12:11.975 --> 00:12:12.777
often are still coming in

00:12:12.797 --> 00:12:13.937
and we're masking attention

00:12:13.976 --> 00:12:14.736
and like just being

00:12:15.437 --> 00:12:16.857
cautious because why not?

00:12:16.957 --> 00:12:18.798
Like why take the extra risk

00:12:18.839 --> 00:12:19.539
if we can avoid it?

00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:19.860
So.

00:12:20.734 --> 00:12:21.894
Yeah, I think that's an ongoing thing.

00:12:22.274 --> 00:12:23.315
The climate crisis, I mean,

00:12:23.855 --> 00:12:25.216
even just hearing how you talk about it,

00:12:25.255 --> 00:12:25.395
like,

00:12:25.436 --> 00:12:26.296
makes so much sense for the

00:12:26.336 --> 00:12:27.716
anthropology background and, like,

00:12:27.735 --> 00:12:29.476
looking at it as an ecosystem of, like,

00:12:30.376 --> 00:12:30.576
right,

00:12:30.636 --> 00:12:32.557
this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.

00:12:32.857 --> 00:12:33.979
We're in Wisconsin.

00:12:33.999 --> 00:12:36.599
We had a 70-degree day in February.

00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:39.000
And for all the people who were like, oh,

00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:40.400
go enjoy the nice weather, I was like...

00:12:41.201 --> 00:12:42.302
I like, no,

00:12:42.481 --> 00:12:43.442
this means we're going to

00:12:43.482 --> 00:12:44.624
wildfires this summer.

00:12:44.644 --> 00:12:45.845
My kids can't play outside.

00:12:45.985 --> 00:12:47.725
So like navigating some of

00:12:47.765 --> 00:12:49.548
that stuff and being able to, yes,

00:12:49.607 --> 00:12:50.768
function on a daily level

00:12:50.828 --> 00:12:51.948
while not feeling like

00:12:51.969 --> 00:12:52.450
you're just burying your

00:12:52.470 --> 00:12:52.970
head in the sand.

00:12:53.269 --> 00:12:53.730
Absolutely.

00:12:53.850 --> 00:12:55.152
And I think Wisconsin and

00:12:55.172 --> 00:12:57.734
the Great Lakes region has

00:12:57.774 --> 00:12:59.774
been a little bit of a buffered zone.

00:13:00.475 --> 00:13:01.736
So unlike our friends in

00:13:01.756 --> 00:13:03.418
California or Colorado or

00:13:03.979 --> 00:13:05.058
even in the southeast that

00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:06.880
are kind of all over the

00:13:07.421 --> 00:13:08.341
the edges of the country,

00:13:09.409 --> 00:13:10.711
that have had more direct

00:13:10.811 --> 00:13:12.653
climate-related crises.

00:13:13.153 --> 00:13:14.735
Wisconsin really hasn't had

00:13:14.794 --> 00:13:18.278
too many relative to those other places.

00:13:18.857 --> 00:13:20.599
So like last summer when we

00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:21.240
had that really,

00:13:21.259 --> 00:13:23.341
really horrible air quality leak,

00:13:23.701 --> 00:13:24.302
that was a really

00:13:24.442 --> 00:13:26.384
activating event for a lot of clients.

00:13:27.725 --> 00:13:30.668
February was a weird February.

00:13:31.307 --> 00:13:32.369
And as those things,

00:13:32.749 --> 00:13:33.850
those types of weather

00:13:33.870 --> 00:13:35.812
patterns become more frequent,

00:13:36.293 --> 00:13:37.754
I think people will be more

00:13:37.854 --> 00:13:38.934
open about talking about

00:13:39.014 --> 00:13:40.355
how it impacts them.

00:13:41.715 --> 00:13:42.455
There's a really prominent

00:13:42.475 --> 00:13:43.696
paper in the climate psych

00:13:43.755 --> 00:13:45.655
community that talks about

00:13:45.676 --> 00:13:46.696
the impact of climate

00:13:46.716 --> 00:13:47.777
change and the climate

00:13:47.797 --> 00:13:48.836
crisis on three levels.

00:13:49.437 --> 00:13:51.057
So there's the direct impact.

00:13:51.638 --> 00:13:52.878
That would be like a direct

00:13:54.278 --> 00:13:55.399
impact of a catastrophic

00:13:55.438 --> 00:13:56.999
weather event where someone

00:13:57.038 --> 00:13:58.979
has experienced a direct trauma.

00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:00.820
There's indirect effects,

00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:02.419
which are those really kind

00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:03.419
of wonky weather days.

00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:04.801
Something feels kind of off.

00:14:04.900 --> 00:14:05.740
I don't really know.

00:14:06.884 --> 00:14:07.985
I can't go ice fishing

00:14:08.086 --> 00:14:09.606
because there's no ice and

00:14:09.626 --> 00:14:10.988
that's my winter coping

00:14:11.008 --> 00:14:11.847
strategy and that's no

00:14:11.869 --> 00:14:12.928
longer available to me.

00:14:13.809 --> 00:14:15.551
So my seasonal depression has increased.

00:14:16.591 --> 00:14:17.951
And then there's the third level,

00:14:17.991 --> 00:14:19.312
which is the systems level.

00:14:19.493 --> 00:14:22.554
And those are things like policy, drought,

00:14:22.634 --> 00:14:25.397
famine, infection rates,

00:14:26.778 --> 00:14:27.739
some of the sort of

00:14:27.778 --> 00:14:31.380
socio-ecological indicators of increased

00:14:32.096 --> 00:14:33.017
Domestic violence with

00:14:33.076 --> 00:14:34.798
increased heat index.

00:14:35.099 --> 00:14:36.078
All of those kinds of things.

00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:38.081
So we talk a lot in session

00:14:38.201 --> 00:14:40.602
about which level of this

00:14:40.663 --> 00:14:41.644
are you experiencing?

00:14:41.703 --> 00:14:42.085
And you might be

00:14:42.105 --> 00:14:43.525
experiencing multiple at the same time.

00:14:44.167 --> 00:14:46.227
And what's your scope of control,

00:14:46.688 --> 00:14:49.530
influence, education, and activism?

00:14:49.811 --> 00:14:49.991
Yeah.

00:14:50.991 --> 00:14:52.133
While also still honoring

00:14:52.212 --> 00:14:54.095
that you need to take a

00:14:54.134 --> 00:14:56.496
break to process what it is

00:14:56.517 --> 00:14:57.038
that you're feeling.

00:14:57.238 --> 00:14:57.378
Yeah.

00:14:57.980 --> 00:14:59.121
We get a lot of people who

00:14:59.201 --> 00:15:00.503
have a lot of activism

00:15:00.543 --> 00:15:03.524
burnout and that's an

00:15:03.565 --> 00:15:04.105
important thing to

00:15:04.145 --> 00:15:05.886
recognize so that there can

00:15:05.927 --> 00:15:08.168
be sustainability in the

00:15:08.229 --> 00:15:09.429
process moving forward.

00:15:09.549 --> 00:15:09.710
Yeah.

00:15:10.429 --> 00:15:10.610
Yeah.

00:15:10.971 --> 00:15:13.011
And that the systems work

00:15:13.111 --> 00:15:13.913
just weaves in and out of

00:15:13.972 --> 00:15:14.774
all of that because you

00:15:14.813 --> 00:15:16.014
need the system of support

00:15:16.514 --> 00:15:17.495
when you're working with

00:15:17.816 --> 00:15:19.616
activisms to avoid that burnout.

00:15:19.797 --> 00:15:20.477
And so that you're not

00:15:20.518 --> 00:15:21.538
trying to do it all yourself.

00:15:21.599 --> 00:15:23.139
You need systems of support

00:15:23.179 --> 00:15:24.780
to connect and take those breaks.

00:15:24.941 --> 00:15:26.642
And like so much of that stuff is like,

00:15:29.599 --> 00:15:30.379
That's why we do this work.

00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:31.399
It's complex, right?

00:15:31.640 --> 00:15:33.142
Yeah.

00:15:34.162 --> 00:15:34.663
What was,

00:15:34.682 --> 00:15:36.283
I'm just going to do a hard left

00:15:36.303 --> 00:15:36.764
turn here.

00:15:38.285 --> 00:15:39.525
What was kind of your

00:15:39.586 --> 00:15:41.107
interest in like wildlife?

00:15:41.148 --> 00:15:41.967
Was that a thing that you

00:15:42.008 --> 00:15:43.850
were always interested in as a kid?

00:15:43.929 --> 00:15:45.390
Like, were you outside a lot?

00:15:45.431 --> 00:15:46.392
What was kind of that?

00:15:46.511 --> 00:15:47.812
Like, I think I want to study this.

00:15:48.232 --> 00:15:51.335
I was always outside as much as I could.

00:15:51.355 --> 00:15:52.316
I grew up in Chicago.

00:15:52.876 --> 00:15:54.197
I joke that I left at every

00:15:54.238 --> 00:15:56.078
opportunity because I

00:15:56.119 --> 00:15:56.919
needed to be outside.

00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:57.360
Sure.

00:15:58.144 --> 00:16:00.366
I was a summer camp kid.

00:16:00.386 --> 00:16:03.649
I had a really amazing

00:16:04.529 --> 00:16:05.649
experience growing up and

00:16:05.690 --> 00:16:07.110
going to summer camp in a

00:16:07.171 --> 00:16:08.812
place where we had 1,000

00:16:08.812 --> 00:16:10.533
acres of land that was

00:16:10.573 --> 00:16:11.833
adjacent to a national forest.

00:16:12.595 --> 00:16:14.475
So I always worked with animals.

00:16:14.495 --> 00:16:15.897
I was a horseback riding instructor.

00:16:18.075 --> 00:16:20.216
all through high school and after college.

00:16:20.255 --> 00:16:21.275
I took a gap year between

00:16:21.296 --> 00:16:21.995
high school and college.

00:16:22.015 --> 00:16:22.895
I was an outdoor education

00:16:22.936 --> 00:16:24.616
instructor at that same place.

00:16:25.956 --> 00:16:27.918
It was really, really formative for me.

00:16:28.498 --> 00:16:29.998
And I have a lot of

00:16:30.038 --> 00:16:31.158
gratitude to all of those

00:16:31.198 --> 00:16:31.859
folks who I used to work

00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:34.460
with because I needed to be outside.

00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:35.659
Everything made more sense

00:16:35.740 --> 00:16:36.399
when I was outside.

00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:41.682
And then I went to school.

00:16:41.701 --> 00:16:44.022
I thought I was going to be

00:16:44.422 --> 00:16:46.482
a folklore and ethnomusicology major.

00:16:47.259 --> 00:16:47.558
Okay.

00:16:48.158 --> 00:16:48.980
Super usable.

00:16:49.580 --> 00:16:50.360
Very applicable.

00:16:50.419 --> 00:16:51.519
Bachelor's degree, right?

00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:53.061
So I'm one of those people

00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:55.421
who has a lot of interests all the time.

00:16:55.441 --> 00:16:56.442
I want to do everything.

00:16:56.461 --> 00:16:57.282
I want to know everything.

00:16:57.302 --> 00:17:00.263
I'm insatiably curious.

00:17:01.543 --> 00:17:02.842
And so I changed my major

00:17:02.883 --> 00:17:04.523
five times in undergrad and

00:17:04.663 --> 00:17:06.183
ended up with these two degrees,

00:17:06.203 --> 00:17:07.265
worked for the Division of

00:17:07.305 --> 00:17:10.846
Fish and Wildlife and just had a blast.

00:17:14.028 --> 00:17:15.530
So that's where it started.

00:17:15.771 --> 00:17:16.192
And then I,

00:17:16.512 --> 00:17:17.494
so I ended up working for

00:17:17.796 --> 00:17:20.902
Indiana DNR while I was

00:17:20.942 --> 00:17:22.987
working for IU Indiana

00:17:23.007 --> 00:17:25.251
University in a lab doing research on

00:17:26.282 --> 00:17:27.943
seasonal patterns of

00:17:29.546 --> 00:17:31.126
aggression and tree swallows.

00:17:31.487 --> 00:17:32.208
So I've always had this

00:17:32.248 --> 00:17:33.067
interest in like the

00:17:33.167 --> 00:17:36.310
endocrine system and stress and fecundity,

00:17:36.631 --> 00:17:37.971
and it just sort of has

00:17:38.071 --> 00:17:40.753
woven its way from species to species,

00:17:41.914 --> 00:17:42.695
which is how I actually

00:17:42.715 --> 00:17:44.076
ended up in fertility because I was like,

00:17:44.196 --> 00:17:44.277
oh,

00:17:44.317 --> 00:17:45.817
I know what a blastocyst is because

00:17:45.958 --> 00:17:47.358
otters have delayed implantation.

00:17:47.859 --> 00:17:50.801
So it was like, again, nonlinear,

00:17:50.842 --> 00:17:51.702
but following

00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:54.559
This interest that I had, which was like,

00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.340
how does stress impact reproduction?

00:17:59.861 --> 00:18:00.481
Pick a species.

00:18:00.501 --> 00:18:01.622
And that's the question.

00:18:01.781 --> 00:18:02.682
That's what I wanted to know.

00:18:03.823 --> 00:18:05.782
So I had a lot of really

00:18:05.963 --> 00:18:07.144
amazing opportunities that

00:18:07.163 --> 00:18:08.023
just sort of landed in

00:18:08.403 --> 00:18:10.184
front of me and I took them over time.

00:18:10.390 --> 00:18:10.529
Yeah.

00:18:11.349 --> 00:18:11.529
Yeah.

00:18:12.171 --> 00:18:13.111
That's so fascinating.

00:18:13.131 --> 00:18:13.891
I love,

00:18:13.911 --> 00:18:15.311
I love one of the things I like

00:18:15.392 --> 00:18:16.672
about hosting the podcast is like,

00:18:16.692 --> 00:18:18.472
I get to really meet fascinating people,

00:18:18.512 --> 00:18:19.133
but I love this,

00:18:19.613 --> 00:18:20.574
how people got into the

00:18:20.614 --> 00:18:22.273
field because very few

00:18:22.314 --> 00:18:23.355
people got into it.

00:18:23.454 --> 00:18:26.435
Like, I don't know, just haphazardly.

00:18:26.976 --> 00:18:28.016
Like there's always this

00:18:28.076 --> 00:18:29.297
like journey that like

00:18:29.336 --> 00:18:31.758
makes sense when we land there, but like,

00:18:32.397 --> 00:18:33.377
it's not super clear where

00:18:33.397 --> 00:18:34.538
we're going when we're on

00:18:34.558 --> 00:18:36.618
the journey totally um so

00:18:36.659 --> 00:18:38.119
yeah nature was a very

00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:38.980
important part of my life

00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:40.279
it has popped up in

00:18:40.339 --> 00:18:43.040
different ways I did a yoga

00:18:43.060 --> 00:18:43.780
teacher training at a

00:18:43.820 --> 00:18:45.362
studio called nature yoga

00:18:45.422 --> 00:18:47.642
in chicago and so there's

00:18:47.662 --> 00:18:48.762
this sort of continuous

00:18:48.923 --> 00:18:51.182
theme that nature needed to

00:18:51.222 --> 00:18:52.584
be a really important

00:18:52.624 --> 00:18:53.403
foundational part of my

00:18:53.443 --> 00:18:56.724
life sure how if at all

00:18:56.785 --> 00:18:57.865
does that weave into the

00:18:57.904 --> 00:19:00.385
therapy room while you're doing the work

00:19:01.161 --> 00:19:02.340
I think it comes up a lot.

00:19:04.301 --> 00:19:08.564
I draw from a variety of authors,

00:19:09.703 --> 00:19:12.005
Mary Oliver, Aldo Leopold,

00:19:12.365 --> 00:19:13.326
Robin Wall Kimmerer.

00:19:13.346 --> 00:19:16.186
I think pulling in

00:19:17.938 --> 00:19:18.959
information from different

00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:20.940
sources ends up creating a

00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:21.721
space where people can

00:19:21.780 --> 00:19:22.721
explore in a way that makes

00:19:22.741 --> 00:19:24.803
sense to them rather than

00:19:24.843 --> 00:19:26.084
having it be so prescriptive.

00:19:27.945 --> 00:19:31.407
I did my internship at a

00:19:31.448 --> 00:19:32.888
farm where I was doing a

00:19:32.909 --> 00:19:34.611
lot of nature-based therapy,

00:19:35.411 --> 00:19:37.153
doing equine-assisted psychotherapy.

00:19:37.893 --> 00:19:39.394
So it's really come up

00:19:40.394 --> 00:19:43.277
directly in my life and in my practice.

00:19:43.356 --> 00:19:43.557
Yeah.

00:19:44.238 --> 00:19:44.417
Yeah.

00:19:44.838 --> 00:19:45.019
Yeah.

00:19:45.159 --> 00:19:45.558
I love that.

00:19:45.578 --> 00:19:46.279
I've had a...

00:19:47.913 --> 00:19:50.055
uh uh equine therapy uh

00:19:50.154 --> 00:19:51.416
guests on the podcast I've

00:19:51.436 --> 00:19:52.097
had a couple nature

00:19:52.117 --> 00:19:53.058
informed therapists on the

00:19:53.098 --> 00:19:54.401
podcast like I do think

00:19:55.060 --> 00:19:56.343
finding the way to relate

00:19:56.363 --> 00:19:57.324
to the clients in a way

00:19:57.344 --> 00:19:58.105
that makes sense to them

00:19:58.184 --> 00:20:00.027
like that is ultimately

00:20:00.067 --> 00:20:01.269
what our job is like it's

00:20:01.348 --> 00:20:03.371
not to fix things or do it

00:20:03.412 --> 00:20:04.673
for them it's to provide

00:20:04.692 --> 00:20:05.574
information in a way that

00:20:05.594 --> 00:20:06.575
their brain can actually do

00:20:06.615 --> 00:20:07.036
something with

00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:10.801
And nature is such a great metaphor.

00:20:10.821 --> 00:20:13.364
But also, like, it's where we exist.

00:20:13.544 --> 00:20:15.105
It's our home, too.

00:20:15.325 --> 00:20:16.906
And so when we feel off,

00:20:17.267 --> 00:20:18.548
I think there is this disconnect.

00:20:18.607 --> 00:20:18.807
And like,

00:20:18.847 --> 00:20:20.229
I love that science background you have,

00:20:20.308 --> 00:20:22.109
because we don't think of

00:20:22.170 --> 00:20:24.711
ourselves as like, a mammal species.

00:20:25.133 --> 00:20:26.534
We are like, everyone knows that.

00:20:26.614 --> 00:20:26.913
But like,

00:20:27.346 --> 00:20:29.106
We don't always process it that way.

00:20:29.126 --> 00:20:30.426
I have this conversation

00:20:30.446 --> 00:20:31.428
with people a lot where like,

00:20:31.508 --> 00:20:32.508
you don't try and think

00:20:32.548 --> 00:20:34.148
your kidneys into working better.

00:20:34.169 --> 00:20:35.469
Why are you trying to think

00:20:35.489 --> 00:20:36.549
your brain into working better?

00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:37.950
And it's always kind of this

00:20:37.970 --> 00:20:38.871
light bulb moment of like, oh yeah,

00:20:38.891 --> 00:20:39.371
that's dumb.

00:20:39.411 --> 00:20:39.691
But like,

00:20:40.270 --> 00:20:41.612
we're kind of socialized to think

00:20:41.672 --> 00:20:43.353
our brain is special and we

00:20:43.393 --> 00:20:44.932
can like think our way out of everything.

00:20:45.634 --> 00:20:46.374
And then we ignore our

00:20:46.413 --> 00:20:47.534
environment or we ignore

00:20:47.614 --> 00:20:49.255
like the physical space that we exist in.

00:20:50.455 --> 00:20:50.796
Totally.

00:20:51.455 --> 00:20:52.977
And that leads to a lot of problems.

00:20:54.076 --> 00:20:54.876
It sure does.

00:20:57.057 --> 00:21:00.179
Um, so one of the other things you do, um,

00:21:00.619 --> 00:21:01.759
I know over at air wellness

00:21:01.819 --> 00:21:03.101
is you run some groups.

00:21:03.580 --> 00:21:04.861
I do.

00:21:04.921 --> 00:21:05.622
So fun.

00:21:05.642 --> 00:21:06.102
Yeah.

00:21:06.642 --> 00:21:06.781
Um,

00:21:07.721 --> 00:21:11.403
I started doing a series called

00:21:11.503 --> 00:21:13.065
navigating holiday bullshit

00:21:13.964 --> 00:21:14.984
because the holidays are

00:21:15.025 --> 00:21:16.465
hard and a lot of stuff

00:21:16.506 --> 00:21:17.165
comes up and they're hard

00:21:17.185 --> 00:21:17.987
for a lot of reasons.

00:21:18.626 --> 00:21:20.948
And so we wanted to address

00:21:20.968 --> 00:21:22.208
that head on and create a

00:21:22.228 --> 00:21:24.048
space of going through some

00:21:24.750 --> 00:21:26.171
some skills some skill sets

00:21:26.211 --> 00:21:27.311
we drew a lot from dbt

00:21:27.332 --> 00:21:29.113
skills for each of those

00:21:29.173 --> 00:21:31.513
workshops and folks really

00:21:31.554 --> 00:21:32.755
liked it yeah they

00:21:32.855 --> 00:21:33.776
responded really well to it

00:21:33.816 --> 00:21:34.915
they felt like there were

00:21:35.757 --> 00:21:36.336
other people who

00:21:36.396 --> 00:21:37.857
experienced similar holiday

00:21:38.557 --> 00:21:40.179
frustrations or senses of

00:21:40.298 --> 00:21:41.640
overwhelm or expectation

00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:44.041
setting so a lot of work

00:21:44.061 --> 00:21:46.462
around boundaries and then

00:21:46.482 --> 00:21:49.345
I started this other group with

00:21:49.798 --> 00:21:51.898
Lisa from Orchid Chinese Medicine.

00:21:51.939 --> 00:21:53.538
She's an acupuncturist and

00:21:53.618 --> 00:21:55.799
we now run monthly moon circles.

00:21:56.660 --> 00:21:59.020
And those are amazing

00:21:59.181 --> 00:22:01.020
because she does many

00:22:01.121 --> 00:22:02.561
acupuncture sessions and we

00:22:02.602 --> 00:22:04.903
do a lot of theming around

00:22:05.002 --> 00:22:05.682
nature as well.

00:22:06.242 --> 00:22:07.844
So with each lunar cycle,

00:22:07.884 --> 00:22:10.243
there are specific elements

00:22:10.324 --> 00:22:11.204
that we draw from

00:22:11.545 --> 00:22:12.585
traditional Chinese medicine.

00:22:13.125 --> 00:22:14.669
as well as from kind of

00:22:14.710 --> 00:22:16.212
nature informed practices at the time.

00:22:17.615 --> 00:22:18.817
And then we talk about some

00:22:18.858 --> 00:22:19.619
of the archetypes that

00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:21.684
might come up throughout a

00:22:21.724 --> 00:22:22.767
variety of different

00:22:23.883 --> 00:22:26.723
myths depending on where you

00:22:26.804 --> 00:22:27.324
are in the Northern

00:22:27.364 --> 00:22:28.404
hemisphere at that time.

00:22:29.244 --> 00:22:30.204
And then we have some guided

00:22:30.365 --> 00:22:31.266
journaling prompts.

00:22:31.905 --> 00:22:32.946
So folks can do some

00:22:33.027 --> 00:22:35.007
introspection and moon

00:22:35.047 --> 00:22:36.688
illuminates a lot for us in

00:22:36.728 --> 00:22:37.248
a different way.

00:22:37.587 --> 00:22:38.749
So this is a time to explore

00:22:38.788 --> 00:22:40.229
some of those things that

00:22:40.249 --> 00:22:41.589
are illuminated in a lunar

00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:42.410
cycle that aren't

00:22:42.470 --> 00:22:44.191
illuminated in a solar cycle.

00:22:45.730 --> 00:22:46.192
And then there's an

00:22:46.231 --> 00:22:47.612
opportunity to share and connect,

00:22:47.912 --> 00:22:49.232
but folks really can do

00:22:50.176 --> 00:22:52.038
whatever they want with that information.

00:22:52.578 --> 00:22:53.719
They can keep it internally.

00:22:53.739 --> 00:22:56.461
They can reflect on it and meditate on it.

00:22:56.601 --> 00:22:59.103
They can look over time at

00:22:59.143 --> 00:23:01.224
what might have shifted between cycles.

00:23:02.865 --> 00:23:04.086
And they've just been really fun.

00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:05.880
Yeah.

00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:06.901
And I love this stuff.

00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:07.942
I think you're the second

00:23:07.961 --> 00:23:08.781
therapist I've had on the

00:23:08.821 --> 00:23:10.182
podcast who does something

00:23:10.202 --> 00:23:11.763
around the lunar schedule.

00:23:13.105 --> 00:23:15.247
But for me personally,

00:23:15.267 --> 00:23:17.127
I was raised in a high control religion.

00:23:17.407 --> 00:23:18.709
And once I left religion and

00:23:18.909 --> 00:23:19.930
started working with religious trauma,

00:23:19.970 --> 00:23:20.710
like connecting back to

00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:22.030
nature was really important to me.

00:23:22.050 --> 00:23:23.071
It was something that like

00:23:23.251 --> 00:23:24.752
religion taught me not to

00:23:24.792 --> 00:23:26.054
do because I would think I

00:23:26.074 --> 00:23:27.234
was naturally interested in it.

00:23:27.315 --> 00:23:29.757
My ADHD does really well in nature.

00:23:31.057 --> 00:23:32.137
And so it's one of those

00:23:32.178 --> 00:23:33.357
things that like reconnecting with,

00:23:34.137 --> 00:23:34.999
I found a group of like

00:23:35.439 --> 00:23:36.959
lovely pagan folks that I

00:23:36.979 --> 00:23:38.159
connect with and like just

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:39.420
learned about all this stuff.

00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:41.259
I talk, I have a six and a three year old.

00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:42.500
I talk about this huge like

00:23:42.540 --> 00:23:44.000
gap in my science knowledge

00:23:44.520 --> 00:23:45.922
around space because like

00:23:46.122 --> 00:23:48.462
as a very conservative Christian,

00:23:48.482 --> 00:23:49.782
like we just didn't do that stuff.

00:23:49.962 --> 00:23:52.144
We learned Bible stuff.

00:23:52.243 --> 00:23:53.743
We didn't learn science stuff.

00:23:53.983 --> 00:23:54.984
And so I have this huge gap.

00:23:55.005 --> 00:23:55.505
So like, it's,

00:23:55.724 --> 00:23:57.325
it's fun for me to engage with it.

00:23:57.384 --> 00:23:59.086
It's fun to like have a thing that we can,

00:23:59.642 --> 00:24:00.643
Celebrate with our boys.

00:24:00.682 --> 00:24:01.903
We're not doing religious holidays.

00:24:01.983 --> 00:24:03.484
We can do the equinoxes and

00:24:03.525 --> 00:24:04.184
all that stuff.

00:24:04.726 --> 00:24:05.086
And for me,

00:24:05.145 --> 00:24:07.067
it feels like very like

00:24:07.106 --> 00:24:08.147
connective and genuine and

00:24:08.188 --> 00:24:09.368
authentic in a way that like,

00:24:09.388 --> 00:24:10.849
I don't know.

00:24:11.630 --> 00:24:12.451
gonna throw some shade at

00:24:12.490 --> 00:24:14.392
religion um but like you

00:24:14.412 --> 00:24:16.334
know dying eggs on easter

00:24:16.493 --> 00:24:18.095
because jesus rose from the

00:24:18.134 --> 00:24:19.175
dead never made any sense

00:24:19.256 --> 00:24:21.377
to me whereas like oh it's

00:24:21.397 --> 00:24:22.419
springtime things are

00:24:22.459 --> 00:24:23.839
blooming we can do pastel

00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:24.921
colors and that stuff

00:24:25.020 --> 00:24:26.182
because it makes sense

00:24:26.201 --> 00:24:26.922
because that's what's going

00:24:26.961 --> 00:24:28.683
on in nature so like that

00:24:28.703 --> 00:24:29.584
stuff just feels so much

00:24:29.644 --> 00:24:30.944
more authentic and like

00:24:31.005 --> 00:24:32.646
approachable I feel good

00:24:32.686 --> 00:24:33.667
teaching my children about

00:24:33.728 --> 00:24:35.068
it instead of like I don't like this

00:24:35.548 --> 00:24:36.028
So I think it's,

00:24:36.849 --> 00:24:37.589
I'm like learning about

00:24:37.609 --> 00:24:38.990
that world and starting to connect.

00:24:39.070 --> 00:24:39.790
And I think it's really

00:24:39.851 --> 00:24:41.171
lovely for like people who

00:24:41.191 --> 00:24:42.432
care about nature and like

00:24:42.932 --> 00:24:44.712
having that lunar cycle and

00:24:44.732 --> 00:24:46.693
keeping track of like, I love,

00:24:46.933 --> 00:24:48.074
I follow the wheel of the year.

00:24:48.173 --> 00:24:49.434
So those midpoints between

00:24:49.454 --> 00:24:51.355
the equinoxes and then the equinoxes,

00:24:51.395 --> 00:24:53.876
like it's just, I find it very grounding.

00:24:54.396 --> 00:24:54.576
Yeah.

00:24:54.977 --> 00:24:55.837
It just makes sense.

00:24:56.018 --> 00:24:56.637
Yeah.

00:24:56.657 --> 00:24:57.897
I also find it very grounding.

00:24:57.938 --> 00:25:00.179
To like go outside and see the full moon.

00:25:00.318 --> 00:25:01.380
Like, right.

00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:02.579
It's a thing I can like

00:25:02.619 --> 00:25:03.941
connect with in this moment right now.

00:25:04.311 --> 00:25:04.811
Totally.

00:25:04.992 --> 00:25:05.212
And I,

00:25:05.432 --> 00:25:07.574
I think that more and more people

00:25:07.653 --> 00:25:08.875
are coming back to that.

00:25:10.195 --> 00:25:11.436
There's sort of a homecoming

00:25:11.557 --> 00:25:13.578
happening of re grounding

00:25:13.719 --> 00:25:15.941
into a way of recognizing

00:25:16.080 --> 00:25:20.584
time that isn't the Gregorian calendar.

00:25:21.064 --> 00:25:21.285
Yeah.

00:25:21.585 --> 00:25:24.086
Or like the work schedule or

00:25:24.126 --> 00:25:26.067
like the arbitrary nature

00:25:26.268 --> 00:25:27.909
of a nine to five kind of thing.

00:25:28.329 --> 00:25:28.569
Yeah.

00:25:28.609 --> 00:25:31.152
Lisa and I were talking a lot because we,

00:25:31.332 --> 00:25:32.532
we started these, um,

00:25:33.228 --> 00:25:34.769
moon circles with the January full moon.

00:25:35.328 --> 00:25:37.171
We were like, Oh, I don't know.

00:25:37.230 --> 00:25:37.510
But like,

00:25:37.550 --> 00:25:38.571
January is not a great time to

00:25:38.832 --> 00:25:39.771
start something because

00:25:39.791 --> 00:25:42.173
we're in we're in winter, right?

00:25:42.433 --> 00:25:43.255
We are wintering,

00:25:43.335 --> 00:25:45.175
our energy is low in the

00:25:45.195 --> 00:25:45.916
northern hemisphere,

00:25:46.096 --> 00:25:48.878
because that's the time of year it is,

00:25:48.898 --> 00:25:49.318
right?

00:25:49.959 --> 00:25:52.381
There's a when we talk about

00:25:52.401 --> 00:25:53.622
like New Year's resolutions,

00:25:54.857 --> 00:25:59.083
the new year astrologically, energetically,

00:26:00.624 --> 00:26:01.586
really happens in the spring.

00:26:02.846 --> 00:26:05.390
So we sort of just had the new year.

00:26:05.650 --> 00:26:07.132
So if starting New Year's

00:26:07.172 --> 00:26:08.133
resolutions or New Year's

00:26:08.192 --> 00:26:10.635
intentions didn't feel right in January,

00:26:10.695 --> 00:26:11.757
it's because you were still

00:26:11.777 --> 00:26:12.897
in the resting period.

00:26:13.719 --> 00:26:15.040
A lot of animals hibernate.

00:26:15.838 --> 00:26:17.440
We would like to hibernate.

00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:18.720
I would love to hibernate.

00:26:19.059 --> 00:26:20.020
It's cold here.

00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:21.741
We don't want to expend a lot of energy.

00:26:21.761 --> 00:26:22.561
Yeah,

00:26:22.701 --> 00:26:25.022
and that's the time of introspection.

00:26:25.042 --> 00:26:26.324
When we talk about wintering,

00:26:26.884 --> 00:26:28.765
it's really what do you see

00:26:29.085 --> 00:26:29.765
in the darkness?

00:26:30.365 --> 00:26:31.205
Can we rest?

00:26:31.306 --> 00:26:32.726
What is it like for you to rest?

00:26:33.326 --> 00:26:35.587
And now as we have hit the

00:26:35.667 --> 00:26:36.667
equinox and are headed

00:26:36.688 --> 00:26:38.788
towards the summer solstice,

00:26:39.809 --> 00:26:41.490
what might growing and

00:26:41.549 --> 00:26:42.871
blooming and tenderness mean?

00:26:44.280 --> 00:26:44.760
feel like?

00:26:45.781 --> 00:26:49.384
Can we hold and protect some

00:26:49.444 --> 00:26:50.726
of that alignment that we

00:26:50.766 --> 00:26:53.126
have right now as we head

00:26:53.227 --> 00:26:55.969
towards more intense energy

00:26:56.068 --> 00:26:56.930
with more sunshine?

00:26:58.010 --> 00:26:58.790
What does it feel like to

00:26:58.871 --> 00:27:01.093
move out of a more moon

00:27:01.813 --> 00:27:04.434
ruled space into a more sun ruled space?

00:27:05.635 --> 00:27:07.856
Lisa would call that more of

00:27:07.896 --> 00:27:10.019
a yin space into more of a yang space.

00:27:11.156 --> 00:27:12.137
And how can we honor that

00:27:12.178 --> 00:27:13.859
shift internally and in our

00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:14.480
relationships?

00:27:14.721 --> 00:27:15.662
Yeah, yeah,

00:27:15.842 --> 00:27:20.786
and I love Blending some of these these

00:27:22.836 --> 00:27:23.896
traditional practices from

00:27:23.957 --> 00:27:24.857
other cultures because

00:27:24.897 --> 00:27:26.378
again like nature is a

00:27:26.499 --> 00:27:28.421
global experience and so

00:27:28.461 --> 00:27:29.942
your nature in the northern

00:27:29.981 --> 00:27:31.083
hemisphere in wisconsin

00:27:31.103 --> 00:27:33.664
wherever is local but like

00:27:33.765 --> 00:27:34.506
everyone goes through the

00:27:34.526 --> 00:27:36.307
shift of seasons the season

00:27:36.386 --> 00:27:37.647
change of seasons is

00:27:37.667 --> 00:27:38.588
something people experience

00:27:38.709 --> 00:27:40.109
everywhere and so it's

00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:41.111
really connective and you

00:27:41.131 --> 00:27:42.451
can draw from your cultural

00:27:42.491 --> 00:27:43.452
heritage or learn from

00:27:43.512 --> 00:27:44.673
other cultures and honor

00:27:44.713 --> 00:27:46.095
those things in a way that is

00:27:47.236 --> 00:27:48.537
i think really nice and

00:27:48.576 --> 00:27:49.337
again like genuine and

00:27:49.397 --> 00:27:50.538
authentic in a way that

00:27:50.578 --> 00:27:52.421
like can be kind of dry and

00:27:52.560 --> 00:27:55.022
almost like I don't know

00:27:55.202 --> 00:27:56.263
lifeless when we're just

00:27:56.284 --> 00:27:56.923
looking at some of the

00:27:56.943 --> 00:27:58.766
science behind it and so

00:27:58.806 --> 00:27:59.946
like again this idea of

00:28:00.007 --> 00:28:01.028
like connecting to that

00:28:01.107 --> 00:28:02.429
stuff in a real way and

00:28:02.469 --> 00:28:03.329
showing up and like

00:28:03.529 --> 00:28:05.231
experiencing it instead of

00:28:05.291 --> 00:28:06.333
just reading it in a book

00:28:06.873 --> 00:28:07.874
or knowing it as a data

00:28:07.913 --> 00:28:09.275
point but like actually

00:28:09.394 --> 00:28:10.175
experiencing it in the

00:28:10.215 --> 00:28:11.676
moment is what I think is

00:28:11.696 --> 00:28:12.557
so helpful and I think

00:28:12.577 --> 00:28:13.419
that's what so many people

00:28:13.459 --> 00:28:14.940
are trying to reconnect with

00:28:15.289 --> 00:28:16.392
Yeah, I think so too.

00:28:16.451 --> 00:28:18.414
That mindful intentionality

00:28:19.615 --> 00:28:20.778
and the way that they've

00:28:20.798 --> 00:28:21.439
moved through the world.

00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:21.940
Yeah.

00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:23.182
And at least for

00:28:24.861 --> 00:28:26.803
I'm a millennial.

00:28:27.022 --> 00:28:27.884
Pretty much right in the middle of it.

00:28:27.903 --> 00:28:28.484
I was going to say elder,

00:28:28.505 --> 00:28:29.625
but I'm really not an elder millennial.

00:28:29.945 --> 00:28:31.428
I'm a regular-aged millennial.

00:28:32.489 --> 00:28:32.969
And younger,

00:28:33.028 --> 00:28:34.191
but we know religion is

00:28:34.230 --> 00:28:35.070
becoming less important.

00:28:35.172 --> 00:28:36.272
I'm going to get in my

00:28:36.292 --> 00:28:37.213
soapbox for a minute here

00:28:37.314 --> 00:28:38.075
because I'm a religious

00:28:38.095 --> 00:28:38.994
trauma specialist.

00:28:39.516 --> 00:28:40.356
People are leaving religion

00:28:40.416 --> 00:28:41.097
in record numbers.

00:28:42.419 --> 00:28:44.401
And they're looking for stuff.

00:28:44.661 --> 00:28:46.643
So things like skeptical

00:28:46.803 --> 00:28:47.924
witchcraft and like...

00:28:48.765 --> 00:28:49.625
I'm an atheist pagan.

00:28:49.645 --> 00:28:50.445
So like non theistic

00:28:50.486 --> 00:28:51.727
paganism stuff that like

00:28:51.767 --> 00:28:52.767
makes sense to all the

00:28:52.807 --> 00:28:54.087
science knowledge we have.

00:28:54.528 --> 00:28:55.588
So we're not like pretending

00:28:55.628 --> 00:28:56.608
or we're not making shit up.

00:28:56.730 --> 00:28:57.450
But also,

00:28:58.309 --> 00:28:59.151
we're engaging with something

00:28:59.171 --> 00:29:01.051
that was real and authentic and genuine.

00:29:01.551 --> 00:29:02.031
And I think like,

00:29:02.051 --> 00:29:03.012
that's why some of that

00:29:03.053 --> 00:29:05.653
stuff is on the rise.

00:29:06.055 --> 00:29:06.994
It makes sense that there's

00:29:07.015 --> 00:29:08.556
these cultural spaces that

00:29:08.615 --> 00:29:10.297
are shifting all at the same time.

00:29:10.416 --> 00:29:10.896
And then again,

00:29:10.916 --> 00:29:12.337
when we zoom out and use our like,

00:29:13.040 --> 00:29:14.961
ecology lens and look at systems like,

00:29:15.060 --> 00:29:15.300
oh yeah,

00:29:15.320 --> 00:29:18.501
like humans are shifting together.

00:29:18.602 --> 00:29:20.123
So looking at this data point on, oh,

00:29:20.163 --> 00:29:21.103
people are leaving religion.

00:29:21.303 --> 00:29:21.742
Like, oh,

00:29:22.383 --> 00:29:23.522
people want to connect with nature.

00:29:23.583 --> 00:29:24.663
Like those things make sense

00:29:24.943 --> 00:29:25.943
in conjunction with each other.

00:29:26.263 --> 00:29:26.503
Yeah.

00:29:26.743 --> 00:29:27.844
And I think historically

00:29:28.624 --> 00:29:31.125
religion has been a source of community.

00:29:31.865 --> 00:29:33.105
I grew up very religious as well.

00:29:33.305 --> 00:29:35.125
I am no longer a practicing

00:29:35.165 --> 00:29:36.766
religious person and

00:29:36.806 --> 00:29:41.366
identify more spiritual and a space like

00:29:42.219 --> 00:29:43.358
a religious space or a

00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:45.779
church offered a lot to

00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:46.839
people at one point,

00:29:47.019 --> 00:29:48.000
and it is no longer

00:29:48.099 --> 00:29:49.121
functioning in the same way,

00:29:49.181 --> 00:29:49.901
but people are still

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.161
seeking community because

00:29:52.181 --> 00:29:53.500
when we zoom out to the

00:29:53.520 --> 00:29:54.261
ecology perspective,

00:29:54.281 --> 00:29:55.122
we're a social species.

00:29:56.122 --> 00:29:58.143
So we rely on each other to

00:29:58.982 --> 00:30:00.083
have our needs met.

00:30:00.843 --> 00:30:03.023
And that's, that's what community is.

00:30:03.124 --> 00:30:04.163
It's being able to balance

00:30:04.203 --> 00:30:06.263
and offer and also receive.

00:30:07.163 --> 00:30:08.345
I think that people forget a

00:30:08.384 --> 00:30:09.384
lot about receiving community.

00:30:10.266 --> 00:30:11.126
help as part of being a part

00:30:11.146 --> 00:30:12.008
of a community as well.

00:30:12.228 --> 00:30:12.387
Yeah.

00:30:12.988 --> 00:30:13.189
Yeah.

00:30:13.528 --> 00:30:14.569
And so I think, yeah,

00:30:15.830 --> 00:30:17.071
the return to nature and like,

00:30:17.132 --> 00:30:17.932
even like the growth of

00:30:17.992 --> 00:30:20.914
yoga in the past 20, 25 years,

00:30:20.974 --> 00:30:21.955
like a lot of that stuff is

00:30:21.976 --> 00:30:22.576
like people wanting to

00:30:22.636 --> 00:30:23.477
connect to their bodies,

00:30:23.958 --> 00:30:25.419
wanting to connect back to nature.

00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.862
Like religion providing community is great,

00:30:28.902 --> 00:30:30.022
but religion taking people

00:30:30.163 --> 00:30:31.984
out of their natural experience,

00:30:32.085 --> 00:30:32.884
I think is less good.

00:30:32.904 --> 00:30:33.226
Yeah.

00:30:33.945 --> 00:30:36.468
obviously um and and so

00:30:36.548 --> 00:30:38.048
again people especially

00:30:38.068 --> 00:30:39.028
with the internet and being

00:30:39.068 --> 00:30:40.830
able to see sort of global

00:30:40.871 --> 00:30:41.871
perspectives in a much more

00:30:41.911 --> 00:30:43.412
accessible way people are

00:30:43.432 --> 00:30:44.313
trying to connect in that

00:30:44.373 --> 00:30:45.594
like grounded authentic

00:30:45.653 --> 00:30:47.015
genuine way as opposed to

00:30:47.914 --> 00:30:48.756
sort of my parents were

00:30:48.796 --> 00:30:49.615
raised this way so I'm

00:30:49.635 --> 00:30:52.278
going to do that too yeah which is cool

00:30:52.662 --> 00:30:53.162
Yeah, it's great.

00:30:53.382 --> 00:30:54.123
It's good to have options.

00:30:54.282 --> 00:30:54.502
Yeah.

00:30:54.682 --> 00:30:56.343
What has I'm curious,

00:30:56.403 --> 00:30:57.644
just because I grew up in Milwaukee,

00:30:58.243 --> 00:30:58.903
what's kind of like the

00:30:58.943 --> 00:31:00.305
community vibe been with

00:31:00.384 --> 00:31:01.525
like the full moon circles

00:31:01.664 --> 00:31:03.586
and having that be a thing

00:31:03.625 --> 00:31:04.645
that gets offered because

00:31:04.685 --> 00:31:05.906
we're not like Portland.

00:31:05.946 --> 00:31:06.787
We're not Austin.

00:31:06.807 --> 00:31:09.607
We're not like a proudly weird city.

00:31:09.627 --> 00:31:10.807
I think we have one.

00:31:10.827 --> 00:31:12.148
We have like one

00:31:12.189 --> 00:31:14.509
metaphysical shop that sells tarot cards.

00:31:14.609 --> 00:31:16.509
Like, so again, it's there.

00:31:16.569 --> 00:31:17.530
These people are everywhere.

00:31:17.611 --> 00:31:17.990
But like,

00:31:18.576 --> 00:31:21.138
It's not part of, I would guess,

00:31:21.278 --> 00:31:21.980
this is what I'm asking.

00:31:22.520 --> 00:31:23.142
I would guess it's not a

00:31:23.162 --> 00:31:24.123
huge part of the population.

00:31:24.143 --> 00:31:25.304
So I'm curious kind of what,

00:31:25.664 --> 00:31:26.605
how people have found it

00:31:26.726 --> 00:31:27.767
and how they've been like

00:31:28.508 --> 00:31:29.229
connecting to the group.

00:31:30.875 --> 00:31:31.777
I love that question.

00:31:31.797 --> 00:31:33.858
I did not grow up in Milwaukee.

00:31:33.898 --> 00:31:34.398
So everything about

00:31:34.419 --> 00:31:36.540
Milwaukee is a little alluring to me.

00:31:36.561 --> 00:31:37.823
I grew up in Chicago.

00:31:38.022 --> 00:31:42.067
So I think that Milwaukee is

00:31:42.547 --> 00:31:44.528
a town that's a lot of word by mouth.

00:31:45.130 --> 00:31:46.711
Like, hey, I'm doing this thing.

00:31:46.750 --> 00:31:47.231
Want to come?

00:31:47.893 --> 00:31:48.613
And people come.

00:31:49.673 --> 00:31:51.415
And so a lot of it has been

00:31:54.021 --> 00:31:56.045
Folks either who are clients

00:31:56.204 --> 00:31:57.067
who might come,

00:31:57.426 --> 00:31:58.709
folks who see it in the community,

00:31:58.808 --> 00:32:02.454
folks who are clients at Orchid,

00:32:02.515 --> 00:32:03.195
Chinese Medicine.

00:32:03.737 --> 00:32:04.898
So we've had...

00:32:05.577 --> 00:32:06.518
what's so cool about doing

00:32:06.538 --> 00:32:07.459
this monthly is that we've

00:32:07.499 --> 00:32:09.259
had new people every month

00:32:09.740 --> 00:32:10.680
and we've also had people

00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:11.820
who've come to every one.

00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:16.042
There's a lot of blending of new energy.

00:32:16.482 --> 00:32:17.303
People might take a month

00:32:17.443 --> 00:32:18.503
off and come back.

00:32:19.284 --> 00:32:20.785
And I think people find us

00:32:20.845 --> 00:32:23.925
from social media, from posters,

00:32:24.166 --> 00:32:25.987
and then also from friends

00:32:26.188 --> 00:32:27.728
who've come and said, this is really fun.

00:32:27.948 --> 00:32:29.888
I really enjoy it.

00:32:30.650 --> 00:32:31.210
I think it is,

00:32:32.535 --> 00:32:36.098
intentionally open.

00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:37.862
I think that people get

00:32:37.922 --> 00:32:39.002
sometimes nervous about

00:32:39.343 --> 00:32:41.185
being in therapeutic spaces.

00:32:41.586 --> 00:32:43.087
And because this is a workshop,

00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:45.240
instead of a therapy group,

00:32:45.259 --> 00:32:46.480
it sometimes feels a little

00:32:46.560 --> 00:32:47.340
bit more accessible.

00:32:47.540 --> 00:32:48.240
Yeah.

00:32:48.461 --> 00:32:51.461
And that drop-in nature of

00:32:51.561 --> 00:32:52.922
come when you can, and if you can't come,

00:32:52.942 --> 00:32:53.442
that's okay.

00:32:53.461 --> 00:32:53.842
That's great.

00:32:53.862 --> 00:32:54.502
We'll see you next time.

00:32:55.222 --> 00:32:56.083
Come back if you want to.

00:32:56.123 --> 00:32:57.222
If you want to take a few months off,

00:32:57.282 --> 00:32:58.624
this isn't the space for you,

00:32:58.644 --> 00:33:01.443
that's okay.

00:33:02.423 --> 00:33:04.204
Emily and I talk a lot about

00:33:04.224 --> 00:33:06.944
what barriers there might

00:33:07.005 --> 00:33:08.006
be to some of the

00:33:08.046 --> 00:33:09.145
interpersonal processing

00:33:09.185 --> 00:33:10.165
that would happen in a group.

00:33:10.766 --> 00:33:11.886
And I think by creating

00:33:11.926 --> 00:33:13.307
these workshops and starting

00:33:14.750 --> 00:33:16.371
at a come taste it right

00:33:16.391 --> 00:33:17.432
like come what does it feel

00:33:17.471 --> 00:33:19.012
like yeah and you hate it

00:33:19.094 --> 00:33:19.753
that's fine that's

00:33:19.794 --> 00:33:21.375
information if you love it

00:33:21.434 --> 00:33:22.615
that's information too and

00:33:22.635 --> 00:33:23.156
if you're somewhere in

00:33:23.176 --> 00:33:24.738
between okay what kind of

00:33:24.778 --> 00:33:25.638
information would help you

00:33:25.679 --> 00:33:26.980
make an informed decision

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:28.461
right about whether this

00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:30.201
might be a good fit yeah um

00:33:30.982 --> 00:33:32.124
so some people have come

00:33:33.944 --> 00:33:34.905
scoping out like what it

00:33:34.925 --> 00:33:35.747
would be like to go to

00:33:35.787 --> 00:33:37.387
individual therapy some

00:33:37.428 --> 00:33:38.409
people are like I really

00:33:38.429 --> 00:33:39.650
want to do a therapy group

00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:40.720
a closed group,

00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:42.080
but I feel nervous about it.

00:33:43.221 --> 00:33:43.800
And some people are like,

00:33:43.881 --> 00:33:46.142
I would love the idea of a therapy group,

00:33:46.162 --> 00:33:48.123
but I can't commit for an

00:33:48.563 --> 00:33:49.963
eight session closed group.

00:33:50.463 --> 00:33:51.785
My life is not conducive to that.

00:33:53.144 --> 00:33:54.025
And I think this has been a

00:33:54.065 --> 00:33:54.905
really good way of kind of

00:33:54.945 --> 00:33:57.207
testing what works,

00:33:58.086 --> 00:34:01.847
testing what energy it

00:34:01.907 --> 00:34:03.929
takes as a clinician to facilitate.

00:34:04.169 --> 00:34:05.230
And then also like,

00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:07.521
generating information

00:34:07.602 --> 00:34:08.744
generating interest and

00:34:08.864 --> 00:34:09.945
yeah and really practicing

00:34:10.347 --> 00:34:13.572
yeah well I love uh therapy

00:34:13.592 --> 00:34:14.193
groups can be really

00:34:14.213 --> 00:34:16.396
powerful obviously um but I

00:34:16.456 --> 00:34:17.318
love some of the

00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:21.541
lack of rigidity to a

00:34:21.581 --> 00:34:22.923
workshop or like the group

00:34:22.943 --> 00:34:23.623
I'm going to be running is

00:34:23.664 --> 00:34:24.985
for adults with ADHD and

00:34:25.045 --> 00:34:25.846
it's designed to be peer

00:34:25.865 --> 00:34:27.807
support so like the goal is

00:34:28.688 --> 00:34:29.668
exchange numbers with each

00:34:29.728 --> 00:34:31.251
other like meet go get

00:34:31.291 --> 00:34:32.190
coffee together go for a

00:34:32.231 --> 00:34:33.311
walk in a local park like

00:34:33.351 --> 00:34:34.233
do your thing like be

00:34:34.253 --> 00:34:36.034
friends like that's cool in

00:34:36.094 --> 00:34:37.135
a way that therapy doesn't

00:34:37.175 --> 00:34:37.956
allow that to happen

00:34:37.976 --> 00:34:38.536
because everything's

00:34:38.577 --> 00:34:39.376
confidential and we have

00:34:39.396 --> 00:34:40.217
HIPAA and we have all this

00:34:40.277 --> 00:34:41.739
other stuff which is

00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:43.481
helpful to therapy I'm not

00:34:43.990 --> 00:34:46.152
besmirching any of that um

00:34:46.291 --> 00:34:47.512
but like it is hard for

00:34:47.552 --> 00:34:48.552
people who want to like

00:34:48.612 --> 00:34:50.753
something like a full moon

00:34:50.773 --> 00:34:52.092
circle like people who want

00:34:52.112 --> 00:34:52.972
to connect with other folks

00:34:52.992 --> 00:34:54.114
who are like man minded

00:34:54.134 --> 00:34:55.434
around nature and wanting

00:34:55.474 --> 00:34:56.653
to like connect and honor

00:34:56.693 --> 00:34:58.815
that space like where do

00:34:58.835 --> 00:34:59.974
you find those people and

00:35:00.014 --> 00:35:00.896
if you find them like how

00:35:00.916 --> 00:35:01.775
do you meet with them in

00:35:01.835 --> 00:35:03.295
person and so like creating

00:35:03.315 --> 00:35:04.237
some of these spaces where

00:35:04.277 --> 00:35:05.536
people can find their

00:35:05.556 --> 00:35:07.237
community like I think

00:35:07.277 --> 00:35:08.057
that's really needed I

00:35:08.097 --> 00:35:09.657
think that's the pandemic

00:35:09.677 --> 00:35:10.677
made it apparent we don't

00:35:10.717 --> 00:35:11.898
have enough of those spaces

00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:13.099
yeah absolutely

00:35:14.385 --> 00:35:15.487
And people who are curious

00:35:15.547 --> 00:35:17.248
about some of those more

00:35:18.228 --> 00:35:19.088
sort of like quote unquote

00:35:19.268 --> 00:35:21.929
fringe integrative models,

00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:24.572
like what is acupuncture?

00:35:25.271 --> 00:35:26.233
Could I try it?

00:35:27.853 --> 00:35:29.114
What if I don't want to do that?

00:35:29.393 --> 00:35:30.454
Okay, totally.

00:35:30.474 --> 00:35:32.076
I've got two other options.

00:35:32.135 --> 00:35:33.295
You can do none.

00:35:33.777 --> 00:35:34.976
You could do ear seeds,

00:35:34.996 --> 00:35:35.677
which are more like a

00:35:35.717 --> 00:35:37.259
little sticker that are at

00:35:37.438 --> 00:35:38.358
an acupressure point,

00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:39.639
or you can do needling.

00:35:40.179 --> 00:35:41.541
And Lisa does a really

00:35:41.581 --> 00:35:43.242
beautiful job of explaining acupuncture.

00:35:43.731 --> 00:35:45.213
the regular points and why

00:35:45.253 --> 00:35:46.434
and what they're connected to.

00:35:46.514 --> 00:35:48.375
And I think it helps folks

00:35:48.875 --> 00:35:51.197
conceptualize their body

00:35:51.976 --> 00:35:53.557
and their energy in a different way.

00:35:53.838 --> 00:35:53.998
Yeah.

00:35:54.778 --> 00:35:54.938
Yeah.

00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:56.780
That's so cool.

00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:57.679
It's very cool.

00:35:57.780 --> 00:35:58.240
I love Dan.

00:35:58.501 --> 00:35:58.681
Yeah.

00:35:59.141 --> 00:36:01.922
I love, I just like trying to,

00:36:01.943 --> 00:36:03.583
I've been in the field for 15 years,

00:36:03.643 --> 00:36:04.565
which like seems so wild

00:36:04.585 --> 00:36:05.545
for me whenever I say that.

00:36:06.206 --> 00:36:08.086
And like at this point,

00:36:08.186 --> 00:36:09.427
like I own my own business.

00:36:09.547 --> 00:36:10.407
I really like practicing the

00:36:10.427 --> 00:36:10.949
way I practice,

00:36:10.989 --> 00:36:12.670
but also acknowledging that like,

00:36:13.530 --> 00:36:14.329
kind of the grad school

00:36:14.349 --> 00:36:15.730
model we're taught of like

00:36:16.210 --> 00:36:17.510
commit to one form of

00:36:17.570 --> 00:36:18.630
therapy and then do that

00:36:18.670 --> 00:36:19.690
with all of your clients

00:36:19.791 --> 00:36:21.130
like for most of us who've

00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:21.731
been in the field for a

00:36:21.751 --> 00:36:22.652
while we learned really

00:36:22.692 --> 00:36:23.371
quick that doesn't work

00:36:23.711 --> 00:36:25.871
yeah um but I also love

00:36:25.972 --> 00:36:27.652
kind of this push away from

00:36:27.692 --> 00:36:28.873
like the medical model and

00:36:28.913 --> 00:36:30.612
to be like I've had a bunch

00:36:30.632 --> 00:36:31.233
of therapists on who do

00:36:31.273 --> 00:36:32.393
walk and talk therapy like

00:36:32.472 --> 00:36:33.472
I love that that makes so

00:36:33.512 --> 00:36:34.293
much sense we have so much

00:36:34.333 --> 00:36:35.434
science that backs that up

00:36:35.454 --> 00:36:36.393
but because an insurance

00:36:36.454 --> 00:36:37.054
company isn't going to

00:36:37.074 --> 00:36:37.893
reimburse for it we don't

00:36:37.934 --> 00:36:39.773
do it like that's silly so

00:36:39.893 --> 00:36:41.114
I think like having this

00:36:41.135 --> 00:36:42.335
stuff having something where like

00:36:43.074 --> 00:36:43.295
hey,

00:36:43.375 --> 00:36:44.697
there's a therapeutic space and we're

00:36:44.717 --> 00:36:45.958
also offering acupuncture.

00:36:46.057 --> 00:36:47.239
If you want to try it out, that's cool.

00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:48.740
If you don't, no pressure.

00:36:49.222 --> 00:36:50.382
And like just acknowledging

00:36:50.402 --> 00:36:51.344
that like wellness looks

00:36:51.403 --> 00:36:52.545
different for different people.

00:36:53.266 --> 00:36:53.987
Some people are going to get

00:36:54.007 --> 00:36:54.807
a lot from acupuncture.

00:36:54.827 --> 00:36:55.327
Some people aren't.

00:36:55.407 --> 00:36:55.929
My wife goes to the

00:36:55.949 --> 00:36:56.929
chiropractor and like I

00:36:56.949 --> 00:36:58.210
make a joke every time she goes,

00:36:58.251 --> 00:36:59.572
like they're not real scientists.

00:36:59.733 --> 00:37:00.032
And like...

00:37:00.994 --> 00:37:01.793
But it works for her.

00:37:01.833 --> 00:37:02.474
It helps her.

00:37:02.614 --> 00:37:03.215
And so, like,

00:37:03.554 --> 00:37:05.076
whatever you want to complain

00:37:05.115 --> 00:37:06.155
about chiropractic or

00:37:06.215 --> 00:37:07.237
crystals or whatever,

00:37:07.416 --> 00:37:09.217
and I make fun of crystals a lot,

00:37:09.958 --> 00:37:11.398
I like to, like, just say, like, yeah,

00:37:11.418 --> 00:37:12.498
but if it works for you, like,

00:37:13.059 --> 00:37:14.639
who cares what I or someone

00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:16.059
else whose research

00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:17.400
background wants to say about it?

00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:18.581
Like, cool.

00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:19.561
If that's helpful,

00:37:19.621 --> 00:37:21.541
then do your helpful stuff.

00:37:21.802 --> 00:37:22.742
Do your helpful stuff.

00:37:22.902 --> 00:37:25.123
And maybe it's getting

00:37:25.164 --> 00:37:26.704
yourself in a space where

00:37:26.724 --> 00:37:28.204
you can process.

00:37:28.784 --> 00:37:28.945
Mm-hmm.

00:37:29.264 --> 00:37:32.545
Maybe there are these sort of, you know,

00:37:32.585 --> 00:37:33.626
crystals are a great example.

00:37:33.646 --> 00:37:34.706
Maybe you believe in the

00:37:34.726 --> 00:37:36.086
metaphysical properties.

00:37:36.327 --> 00:37:36.927
Maybe you don't.

00:37:37.108 --> 00:37:38.068
Maybe it's a reminder of

00:37:38.108 --> 00:37:39.128
being in a space where you

00:37:39.148 --> 00:37:40.650
felt really held, seen, and connected.

00:37:42.010 --> 00:37:42.429
Amazing.

00:37:42.731 --> 00:37:42.911
Yeah.

00:37:43.210 --> 00:37:43.710
And, like,

00:37:43.751 --> 00:37:45.052
we know all this psychology

00:37:45.072 --> 00:37:47.432
around rituals and our ritual brain.

00:37:47.452 --> 00:37:48.693
I have a guest coming up

00:37:48.753 --> 00:37:49.594
talking about that.

00:37:49.753 --> 00:37:52.135
And, like, if it's a talisman, like,

00:37:52.175 --> 00:37:53.416
if a rock in your pocket

00:37:53.496 --> 00:37:55.456
makes you feel more confident, like,

00:37:56.556 --> 00:37:56.777
great.

00:37:57.637 --> 00:37:57.878
Love it.

00:37:58.260 --> 00:37:58.420
Yeah.

00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:00.081
Like there's nothing wrong with that.

00:38:00.422 --> 00:38:00.902
I I'm,

00:38:01.282 --> 00:38:03.463
I'm skeptical not of people using it

00:38:03.503 --> 00:38:04.364
for help in their own life,

00:38:04.505 --> 00:38:05.806
but people profiting off of

00:38:05.846 --> 00:38:08.188
it in a snake oil salesman

00:38:08.288 --> 00:38:09.708
or a manipulative sort of way.

00:38:09.869 --> 00:38:10.088
But like,

00:38:10.108 --> 00:38:11.190
I can say that about religion too.

00:38:11.269 --> 00:38:12.952
Like I'm not shading crystals,

00:38:13.452 --> 00:38:14.472
ignoring the Catholic church.

00:38:14.572 --> 00:38:16.534
Like when it's,

00:38:16.914 --> 00:38:18.956
when it's done from a predatory space,

00:38:19.036 --> 00:38:20.117
like I'm going to have a problem with it.

00:38:20.376 --> 00:38:21.197
Yeah, absolutely.

00:38:21.478 --> 00:38:22.139
And I think that there's a

00:38:22.179 --> 00:38:24.400
lot of like both and right.

00:38:24.521 --> 00:38:26.362
Let's use medicine,

00:38:26.621 --> 00:38:27.422
evidence-based medicine.

00:38:27.869 --> 00:38:28.289
And also,

00:38:28.369 --> 00:38:29.610
if there's something that works for you,

00:38:30.690 --> 00:38:31.632
great, let's talk about it.

00:38:32.271 --> 00:38:32.891
Why does it work?

00:38:33.492 --> 00:38:33.652
Yeah.

00:38:34.152 --> 00:38:35.594
Maybe we don't even have to

00:38:35.634 --> 00:38:36.534
know why sometimes.

00:38:36.574 --> 00:38:37.313
Maybe it just does.

00:38:37.474 --> 00:38:37.675
Yeah.

00:38:38.054 --> 00:38:38.715
That's great, too.

00:38:38.994 --> 00:38:39.155
Yeah.

00:38:39.576 --> 00:38:41.956
And I think for me, I feel comfortable.

00:38:41.976 --> 00:38:42.737
This is my own bias.

00:38:42.817 --> 00:38:44.038
I feel comfortable when I can say,

00:38:45.911 --> 00:38:46.590
I might not know the

00:38:46.610 --> 00:38:47.992
scientific reason why this works,

00:38:48.032 --> 00:38:49.253
but there is a scientific

00:38:49.313 --> 00:38:50.552
reason that like we could find.

00:38:51.893 --> 00:38:52.894
And that makes me feel a lot

00:38:52.914 --> 00:38:54.074
more comfortable than some

00:38:54.135 --> 00:38:56.096
of the like more metaphysical things,

00:38:56.175 --> 00:38:56.777
because I think there are

00:38:56.797 --> 00:38:58.317
things that science can't explain yet.

00:38:58.496 --> 00:39:01.159
But like, it's a weird time in history.

00:39:02.139 --> 00:39:02.880
History repeats itself

00:39:02.900 --> 00:39:03.539
because it's happened with

00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:05.181
the Spanish flu in 1920 as well.

00:39:05.221 --> 00:39:08.141
But like the weird anti-science movement,

00:39:08.181 --> 00:39:09.262
like I try and be really

00:39:09.302 --> 00:39:11.244
careful of like science is important.

00:39:11.304 --> 00:39:12.804
Like we do need to have research.

00:39:12.844 --> 00:39:13.764
We need a peer review.

00:39:13.864 --> 00:39:15.365
Like all these things are,

00:39:16.201 --> 00:39:17.581
awesome and helpful and wonderful.

00:39:17.782 --> 00:39:19.742
And also like not infallible.

00:39:20.304 --> 00:39:22.324
So like not, not saying like, Oh,

00:39:22.364 --> 00:39:23.224
well I don't believe in God,

00:39:23.244 --> 00:39:24.905
but I believe in capital S science.

00:39:25.025 --> 00:39:26.146
Like, no, it's not infallible.

00:39:26.206 --> 00:39:27.148
Science is a process.

00:39:27.168 --> 00:39:27.907
Like that's good.

00:39:28.007 --> 00:39:29.608
That should be the way things work.

00:39:30.230 --> 00:39:31.990
So I think it's, as a practitioner,

00:39:32.050 --> 00:39:34.472
I would like walk that line of,

00:39:34.592 --> 00:39:35.713
I don't want to encourage

00:39:35.753 --> 00:39:36.333
stuff where I'm like,

00:39:36.492 --> 00:39:38.054
I think you're being taken advantage of,

00:39:38.213 --> 00:39:38.514
or like,

00:39:39.175 --> 00:39:41.016
that's not how your brain works

00:39:41.115 --> 00:39:41.836
or like whatever.

00:39:41.856 --> 00:39:44.057
And also holding space for

00:39:44.077 --> 00:39:45.659
people to find what works well for them.

00:39:46.117 --> 00:39:46.518
Totally.

00:39:46.538 --> 00:39:48.938
I think any of my clients

00:39:48.958 --> 00:39:49.739
would say that this is

00:39:49.778 --> 00:39:51.360
probably my catchphrase,

00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:53.800
but with more information,

00:39:53.860 --> 00:39:54.940
we can make new decisions.

00:39:55.240 --> 00:39:56.320
Yeah.

00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:57.222
That's a good catchphrase.

00:39:57.302 --> 00:39:58.101
I'm going to steal that one.

00:39:58.302 --> 00:39:59.601
I have a lot of catchphrases,

00:39:59.621 --> 00:40:00.503
but I like that one.

00:40:00.523 --> 00:40:01.023
Yeah.

00:40:01.262 --> 00:40:01.943
With new information,

00:40:01.963 --> 00:40:02.744
we make new decisions.

00:40:02.963 --> 00:40:04.003
When we know better, we do better.

00:40:05.318 --> 00:40:06.320
And right now,

00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:07.820
what we know is what we know

00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:09.141
is evidence-based.

00:40:09.442 --> 00:40:10.822
It takes a lot of trials to

00:40:10.842 --> 00:40:13.204
get something considered evidence-based.

00:40:13.784 --> 00:40:14.625
So yes,

00:40:14.784 --> 00:40:16.106
there's a lot of benefit in using

00:40:16.166 --> 00:40:17.106
evidence-based practice.

00:40:17.166 --> 00:40:18.648
There's also a lot of

00:40:18.688 --> 00:40:19.967
benefit in using things

00:40:19.987 --> 00:40:21.188
that are cutting edge or

00:40:21.268 --> 00:40:24.751
new that are part of the process of, yeah,

00:40:24.771 --> 00:40:25.192
it works.

00:40:25.431 --> 00:40:26.353
We're figuring out why.

00:40:27.677 --> 00:40:28.976
yeah and the both and I

00:40:29.016 --> 00:40:30.358
think of like doing systems

00:40:30.378 --> 00:40:31.177
work you talked about like

00:40:31.217 --> 00:40:32.679
different levels before um

00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:34.418
but we talk about systems

00:40:34.478 --> 00:40:35.559
change what I was taught is

00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:36.460
like first order change

00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:37.159
second order change and

00:40:37.179 --> 00:40:38.039
third order change first

00:40:38.139 --> 00:40:39.601
order is like a behavioral

00:40:39.621 --> 00:40:40.601
change one person change

00:40:40.641 --> 00:40:41.400
behavior we talk about

00:40:41.862 --> 00:40:43.161
stopping smoking great

00:40:43.541 --> 00:40:44.483
first order change second

00:40:44.523 --> 00:40:46.362
order change is um getting

00:40:46.402 --> 00:40:47.943
into like a systems change

00:40:48.043 --> 00:40:49.503
multiple people changing a

00:40:49.543 --> 00:40:50.744
family change and then

00:40:50.764 --> 00:40:51.864
third order change is kind of like a

00:40:53.748 --> 00:40:55.989
principle or like identity

00:40:56.349 --> 00:40:57.989
change and that's really

00:40:58.010 --> 00:40:59.190
powerful and we don't spend

00:40:59.210 --> 00:41:00.409
a ton of time there for the

00:41:00.449 --> 00:41:02.190
most part in therapy a lot

00:41:02.210 --> 00:41:03.010
of our work is first or

00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:04.271
second order change but

00:41:04.311 --> 00:41:05.590
it's fascinating to get to

00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:06.650
sort of that like third

00:41:06.710 --> 00:41:08.170
order change and I think

00:41:08.211 --> 00:41:08.891
like that's where people

00:41:08.911 --> 00:41:10.711
are trying to like connect

00:41:10.751 --> 00:41:11.711
with some of this stuff

00:41:11.811 --> 00:41:12.972
where we're leaving

00:41:13.032 --> 00:41:13.911
religion or we're finding

00:41:13.952 --> 00:41:14.952
those things like yes they

00:41:14.972 --> 00:41:15.913
want the first order change

00:41:15.932 --> 00:41:16.853
I want the behavior change

00:41:16.893 --> 00:41:17.733
but they want it to have

00:41:17.833 --> 00:41:19.112
meaning they're trying to I

00:41:19.652 --> 00:41:20.594
talk about meaning making a

00:41:20.614 --> 00:41:21.813
lot in my work and like

00:41:23.134 --> 00:41:24.014
it's empowering to

00:41:24.054 --> 00:41:25.615
acknowledge that we get to

00:41:25.655 --> 00:41:26.476
make our meaning.

00:41:26.695 --> 00:41:27.757
Like we get to decide what

00:41:27.797 --> 00:41:28.458
that looks like.

00:41:28.637 --> 00:41:29.717
And I think for a lot of people,

00:41:29.757 --> 00:41:30.759
like they're just still

00:41:30.938 --> 00:41:31.900
trying to sort that stuff.

00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:33.800
And so when we vacillate

00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:34.481
between those things,

00:41:34.501 --> 00:41:35.422
we can also look at like

00:41:36.851 --> 00:41:37.632
there's good research that

00:41:37.652 --> 00:41:38.532
says walking is great.

00:41:38.873 --> 00:41:40.215
And the system, the big,

00:41:40.335 --> 00:41:42.096
big institutional system of

00:41:42.155 --> 00:41:43.137
insurance doesn't cover it.

00:41:43.217 --> 00:41:43.456
And like,

00:41:43.498 --> 00:41:44.637
that doesn't mean walking isn't

00:41:44.677 --> 00:41:45.478
valid or good.

00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:46.679
That just means that like

00:41:47.019 --> 00:41:48.942
there's flaws in our system that both end,

00:41:49.061 --> 00:41:50.163
both end mentality of like

00:41:50.963 --> 00:41:51.764
this rock in your pocket

00:41:51.784 --> 00:41:52.505
can make you feel good.

00:41:52.664 --> 00:41:52.864
And yeah,

00:41:53.925 --> 00:41:54.666
someone can't predict your

00:41:54.686 --> 00:41:56.047
future for you like both

00:41:56.068 --> 00:41:56.807
those things can be true

00:41:57.168 --> 00:41:58.949
totally and so I think

00:41:59.050 --> 00:42:00.311
clients I think helping

00:42:00.331 --> 00:42:01.092
clients walk through that

00:42:01.132 --> 00:42:01.972
space and get comfortable

00:42:01.992 --> 00:42:03.213
with that space I know I

00:42:03.773 --> 00:42:04.273
work with a lot of

00:42:04.293 --> 00:42:05.215
neurodivergent folks and

00:42:05.235 --> 00:42:05.956
black and white thinking is

00:42:06.016 --> 00:42:07.996
really common but I think a

00:42:08.036 --> 00:42:08.878
lot of people are taught

00:42:08.918 --> 00:42:09.798
black and white thinking

00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:10.900
and so it's one of those

00:42:10.940 --> 00:42:11.480
things where like

00:42:11.539 --> 00:42:12.900
navigating that gray area

00:42:13.001 --> 00:42:13.842
and like learning how to be

00:42:13.882 --> 00:42:16.563
comfortable there my brain

00:42:16.603 --> 00:42:18.005
likes that it always has so

00:42:18.045 --> 00:42:19.146
it feels very natural to me

00:42:19.246 --> 00:42:20.527
but like I work with a lot

00:42:20.547 --> 00:42:21.248
of people around like

00:42:22.987 --> 00:42:24.268
Yes, both those things could be true.

00:42:24.288 --> 00:42:25.768
And I'm like, what does that mean?

00:42:27.009 --> 00:42:29.230
So I don't know that I was

00:42:29.250 --> 00:42:29.831
going somewhere with that.

00:42:29.851 --> 00:42:31.331
I was just verbally processing.

00:42:31.512 --> 00:42:32.751
We're headed in a different direction.

00:42:32.771 --> 00:42:33.652
We might not know where we're going.

00:42:34.052 --> 00:42:34.452
That's great.

00:42:34.733 --> 00:42:36.414
I think there's a lot to

00:42:36.434 --> 00:42:39.476
that idea of needing or

00:42:40.936 --> 00:42:43.257
being encouraged to choose one.

00:42:45.318 --> 00:42:46.440
I was encouraged to choose

00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:47.920
one all the time.

00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:48.221
Mm-hmm.

00:42:48.998 --> 00:42:49.800
as a kid.

00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:51.760
Do you want to be a music teacher?

00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:53.262
Do you want to be an equine vet?

00:42:53.601 --> 00:42:54.862
I want to do both.

00:42:54.943 --> 00:42:55.762
Why do I have to pick?

00:42:56.903 --> 00:42:58.985
And I used to get teased for

00:42:59.385 --> 00:43:01.106
it in a loving and gentle way.

00:43:02.007 --> 00:43:03.728
But I would push back against that a lot.

00:43:04.307 --> 00:43:05.608
I'm not going to choose.

00:43:05.929 --> 00:43:08.070
I'm not going to limit the

00:43:08.130 --> 00:43:09.530
interests that I have.

00:43:09.550 --> 00:43:11.152
I'm going to be interested

00:43:11.211 --> 00:43:12.313
and ask questions and be

00:43:12.393 --> 00:43:13.592
inquisitive and continue.

00:43:15.070 --> 00:43:17.952
to learn and grow and have questions.

00:43:19.054 --> 00:43:20.293
I'm like one of those people who's like,

00:43:20.313 --> 00:43:21.014
what are you reading?

00:43:21.034 --> 00:43:22.735
And I'm like, it's 17 things.

00:43:23.996 --> 00:43:24.996
Let me pull up my library

00:43:25.016 --> 00:43:26.257
bag because it is full of

00:43:26.297 --> 00:43:26.898
books right now.

00:43:27.338 --> 00:43:28.018
Many interests.

00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:29.579
I'm going to follow all of them.

00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:31.061
And I think that that is

00:43:31.201 --> 00:43:31.681
another part of

00:43:31.721 --> 00:43:32.641
neurodiversity that is

00:43:32.902 --> 00:43:34.163
sometimes discouraged is

00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:36.882
find a path and stay on the path.

00:43:37.461 --> 00:43:39.581
And our brains don't like to do that.

00:43:39.842 --> 00:43:40.003
Yeah.

00:43:40.182 --> 00:43:40.262
Well,

00:43:40.282 --> 00:43:41.963
and that's such a institutionalized

00:43:42.063 --> 00:43:43.364
system approach of like,

00:43:43.784 --> 00:43:45.083
there's a right way to do this.

00:43:45.643 --> 00:43:46.744
And that's designed for some

00:43:46.824 --> 00:43:48.144
brains some of the time,

00:43:48.164 --> 00:43:49.425
not for everyone all the time.

00:43:50.206 --> 00:43:50.365
Yeah.

00:43:50.385 --> 00:43:51.445
I think that that comes up a

00:43:51.485 --> 00:43:52.965
lot too in client work with

00:43:52.985 --> 00:43:53.746
the overlap of the

00:43:53.786 --> 00:43:55.027
perinatal population or

00:43:55.447 --> 00:43:56.907
reproductive age population

00:43:57.027 --> 00:43:58.588
and climate work of here's

00:43:58.628 --> 00:44:01.668
a societally prescribed milestone

00:44:02.847 --> 00:44:03.786
get married, have kids,

00:44:04.907 --> 00:44:06.608
what if you don't want to do them?

00:44:07.268 --> 00:44:08.608
What if that feels

00:44:08.708 --> 00:44:09.949
misaligned to your internal

00:44:09.989 --> 00:44:10.750
code of ethics?

00:44:10.929 --> 00:44:12.949
A question I hear a lot is,

00:44:12.989 --> 00:44:14.170
how can I ethically have

00:44:14.530 --> 00:44:19.112
kids in a climate crisis?

00:44:19.411 --> 00:44:20.293
What am I doing?

00:44:21.112 --> 00:44:21.853
How can I do that?

00:44:22.313 --> 00:44:23.072
And so that's a question

00:44:23.092 --> 00:44:24.253
that we talk a lot about.

00:44:24.514 --> 00:44:25.873
What feels aligned for you?

00:44:25.914 --> 00:44:27.715
Are there ways that you might

00:44:28.501 --> 00:44:29.943
nurture or nourish in a

00:44:30.063 --> 00:44:30.902
different way that would

00:44:30.922 --> 00:44:32.284
still feel fulfilling?

00:44:32.503 --> 00:44:34.985
Or do you really want kids?

00:44:35.266 --> 00:44:36.025
And is that something that

00:44:36.045 --> 00:44:37.007
feels important to you?

00:44:40.068 --> 00:44:40.708
So that's a question that

00:44:40.728 --> 00:44:41.648
comes up a lot too,

00:44:42.389 --> 00:44:43.590
that here is the path.

00:44:44.070 --> 00:44:44.990
Go down the path.

00:44:45.170 --> 00:44:46.431
This is what you're supposed to do.

00:44:47.132 --> 00:44:48.072
And if you don't,

00:44:48.836 --> 00:44:49.918
You're not wrong or bad,

00:44:50.077 --> 00:44:50.958
but let's find meaning in a

00:44:50.998 --> 00:44:51.498
different way.

00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:51.838
Yeah.

00:44:52.278 --> 00:44:53.659
And get into that meaning making space.

00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:54.219
Yeah.

00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:56.420
And slowing the process down

00:44:57.141 --> 00:44:58.121
to like acknowledge like

00:44:58.262 --> 00:44:59.103
I'm being pushed here,

00:44:59.163 --> 00:45:01.123
but like not by myself.

00:45:02.005 --> 00:45:03.324
There's a pull from society

00:45:03.364 --> 00:45:04.465
or my parents are pushing

00:45:04.485 --> 00:45:06.367
me or my school's pushing me or whatever.

00:45:06.387 --> 00:45:07.407
And like,

00:45:07.867 --> 00:45:09.068
just that doesn't mean it's wrong.

00:45:09.228 --> 00:45:09.849
That doesn't mean we need to

00:45:09.889 --> 00:45:10.769
reject it out of hands,

00:45:10.849 --> 00:45:12.931
but it might not fit for us.

00:45:13.771 --> 00:45:14.871
and taking the time to be like, oh,

00:45:15.050 --> 00:45:16.032
I can slow this process

00:45:16.072 --> 00:45:17.452
down and look at it to make

00:45:17.492 --> 00:45:19.552
a better decision or try

00:45:19.592 --> 00:45:20.532
and gather more information

00:45:20.572 --> 00:45:21.833
to make a better decision.

00:45:22.454 --> 00:45:23.373
Just check in with yourself.

00:45:23.974 --> 00:45:26.114
So much stuff I think people are rushing.

00:45:26.135 --> 00:45:29.474
It's so hard to slow down,

00:45:29.574 --> 00:45:32.596
to be intentional and be okay.

00:45:32.635 --> 00:45:34.856
Our nervous systems are all wired to be go,

00:45:34.896 --> 00:45:35.056
go,

00:45:35.117 --> 00:45:39.438
go instead of ramp up sometimes and

00:45:39.478 --> 00:45:40.538
then slow back down and

00:45:40.557 --> 00:45:41.298
then ramp up when it's

00:45:41.318 --> 00:45:42.498
appropriate and slow back down.

00:45:43.177 --> 00:45:44.617
Yes, absolutely.

00:45:44.637 --> 00:45:46.699
That rest period is critical

00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:48.440
to the recovery.

00:45:48.981 --> 00:45:50.340
We're not meant to be in

00:45:51.262 --> 00:45:52.842
activation all the time.

00:45:52.862 --> 00:45:54.764
It's not sustainable.

00:45:54.983 --> 00:45:55.184
No,

00:45:55.724 --> 00:45:57.786
especially not about responding to work

00:45:57.905 --> 00:46:00.588
emails or any of these other things.

00:46:00.947 --> 00:46:02.688
Yeah, whose sense of urgency is this?

00:46:02.849 --> 00:46:03.869
That's a good question.

00:46:04.110 --> 00:46:05.971
Yeah, for sure.

00:46:05.990 --> 00:46:08.413
Well, this has been awesome.

00:46:08.753 --> 00:46:10.094
Thank you so much for having me.

00:46:10.273 --> 00:46:10.514
Yeah.

00:46:10.956 --> 00:46:11.715
If people want to learn more

00:46:11.755 --> 00:46:12.275
about your work,

00:46:12.295 --> 00:46:13.237
they want to find out when

00:46:13.257 --> 00:46:14.197
the groups are running,

00:46:14.777 --> 00:46:15.637
how do they contact you,

00:46:15.657 --> 00:46:16.416
where do they find your stuff?

00:46:16.757 --> 00:46:18.038
You can reach out via

00:46:18.597 --> 00:46:23.139
arrowwellnesstherapy.com or Google me.

00:46:23.998 --> 00:46:24.818
Emily's been on the show,

00:46:24.938 --> 00:46:26.719
so feel free to reach out

00:46:26.838 --> 00:46:27.820
directly if you've got more

00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:29.099
questions or if you want to

00:46:29.139 --> 00:46:30.420
schedule a consultation to

00:46:30.460 --> 00:46:31.420
work with me or work with

00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:32.780
individuals and couples.

00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:34.081
Feel free.

00:46:34.436 --> 00:46:34.617
Yeah,

00:46:34.918 --> 00:46:38.043
and Air Wellness has a calendar on

00:46:38.063 --> 00:46:39.826
the website for the groups, I believe.

00:46:39.846 --> 00:46:41.588
So we'll have all those

00:46:41.608 --> 00:46:42.510
links in the show notes to

00:46:42.550 --> 00:46:43.751
make it easy for people to find.

00:46:43.992 --> 00:46:44.434
Amazing.

00:46:44.514 --> 00:46:47.097
Yeah, we've got the next three are up,

00:46:47.478 --> 00:46:47.719
I think.

00:46:48.514 --> 00:46:49.335
Lisa and I are actually

00:46:49.375 --> 00:46:50.894
doing the summer solstice

00:46:50.914 --> 00:46:52.735
one about a week and a half

00:46:52.916 --> 00:46:54.476
early in our schedules,

00:46:54.516 --> 00:46:55.318
but we're going to do it as

00:46:55.378 --> 00:46:56.998
a how to plan your own or

00:46:57.679 --> 00:46:58.780
how to host your own

00:46:58.960 --> 00:46:59.980
solstice celebration.

00:47:00.059 --> 00:47:00.521
Nice.

00:47:00.541 --> 00:47:02.981
A little more workshoppy, directional,

00:47:03.001 --> 00:47:04.543
where you can do it yourself.

00:47:04.762 --> 00:47:05.163
Very cool.

00:47:05.603 --> 00:47:06.824
My birthday is right around

00:47:06.844 --> 00:47:07.543
the summer solstice,

00:47:07.643 --> 00:47:08.304
and I have my

00:47:08.324 --> 00:47:09.525
three-year-old's birthday is

00:47:09.545 --> 00:47:10.525
right around the winter solstice,

00:47:10.545 --> 00:47:10.985
so we're big.

00:47:11.507 --> 00:47:12.447
Big balance people.

00:47:12.467 --> 00:47:13.347
We're big fans of the

00:47:13.387 --> 00:47:15.349
solstice celebrations in our household.

00:47:15.628 --> 00:47:15.809
Same.

00:47:16.431 --> 00:47:17.331
Yeah.

00:47:17.572 --> 00:47:17.992
Very cool.

00:47:18.012 --> 00:47:18.112
Well,

00:47:18.132 --> 00:47:19.213
we'll have links to all that stuff in

00:47:19.233 --> 00:47:19.693
the show notes.

00:47:19.932 --> 00:47:21.134
Thanks so much for coming on.

00:47:21.273 --> 00:47:21.954
Yeah, thank you so much.

00:47:22.275 --> 00:47:23.615
And to all our wonderful viewers,

00:47:23.655 --> 00:47:24.996
thanks for tuning in again.

00:47:25.016 --> 00:47:26.398
We will be back next week

00:47:26.458 --> 00:47:27.458
with another new episode.

00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:28.199
Take care, everyone.