Your Therapist Needs Therapy 63 - Competent Care for Marginalized Communities with Dani Falesnik

Jeremy is joined this week by the incredibly insightful Dani Falesnik. Jeremy and Dani discuss the importance of understanding neurodivergence in educational and therapeutic settings, emphasizing that traditional systems often fail to accommodate these differences. They highlight the need for more individualized approaches that consider each person's unique needs, especially for marginalized communities such as the LGBTQ+ and neurodivergent populations, Our conversation also addresses the pitfalls of seeking unique insights from unqualified sources, stressing the importance of proper training and inclusive practices to support vulnerable populations effectively.

To learn more about Dani and her work, head over to destinofortuna.com, or you can follow Dani on Instagram @dani.f.fortuna

Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube.

Head over to Patreon to support the show, or you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well!

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Danielle Falesnik (2024-07-10 10:02 GMT-5) - Transcript

Attendees

Danielle Falesnik, Jeremy Schumacher

Transcript

This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.

Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and welcome to another edition of your therapist needs therapy podcast for two mental health professionals talk about their mental health journey and how they navigate mental Wellness while working in the mental health field. I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher licensed marriage and family therapist.

Danielle Falesnik: Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Schumacher: The same way which is how did you get into the mental health field?

Danielle Falesnik: accidentally, so my kind of Journey on this started. I think when I was a teenager myself, I had a really excellent therapist.

Danielle Falesnik: College by the grace of God. I really didn't know what I wanted to do, I didn't know for sure. I was going to be a therapist. It's kind of lonely staying up feeding a kid all night unloading stuff is a lot of heavy hard work for my elbows and my wrists were starting to go out and somebody had mentioned art therapy is a potential career choice and is that for sad paintings or really rich people who just, need pretty art to look at I was getting into so I started taking some coursework around grief and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.

Danielle Falesnik: grief man because I needed some kind of psychology minor. So I actually went the human development route and got my

Danielle Falesnik: masters eventually from Mount Mary College in Milwaukee. Yeah, and I became an art therapist.

Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.

Danielle Falesnik: their journey through. Educational Systems are pretty varied and especially about the whole licensure thing. But yeah, that's kind of where I ended up and eventually decided to open my own practice because if there's less quota concerns and more directionality on my end, which is really nice.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah, do you mind going into that a little bit because I have a lot of Private Practice owners on and it's one of the things I like to talk about how unhealthy the medical model and the insurance system is so I'm always curious people's kind of journey into their own private practice.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah, so, my last employment experience was not bad. I was working in final lag the difficulty was that through that medical Model A lot of it is about numbers and how many clients face-to-face hours you can get in a week and many therapist the end of that work, right? We have no documentation and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: follow up in case management so they had this Grand idea to start working in the schools and In order to see more patients. it was half hour sessions and let me tell you that brought me out quick just…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: because people need more time just because 30 minutes is up doesn't mean

Danielle Falesnik: somebody's ready to stop talking So eventually, I really wanted to follow my passion working with queer neurodiverse adults. And so that's what I started to do. So in the past I have had my own brick and mortar thing and have now transitioned back to Telus therapy until kind of get case loads up and running and a little bit smoother operational systems in place. But definitely winging something we think maybe we should not be wigging but here we are doing it anyways.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, it's so interesting, especially. Working with the neurodivergent community. I never wanted to have my own practice because I assumed Somewhat incorrectly that the business part of it would be to taxing like I'm ADHD. That's not how my brain works. and so I just always assumed it was so restrictive that I wouldn't be able to swing it and then after working at bad places with bad ownership or unethical places or whatever just get in the point if these folks are doing it poorly and making a profit. Maybe I can do it and be okay. but you for most of us,…

00:05:00

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: I don't know what Mom Mary was I went to Marquette. I didn't have any education on business how to open a practice how to run any of that stuff.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah, what to expect with taxes all of that. what's an LLC.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: How do you do that? What's that? what? I mean,…

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah, and a lot of

Danielle Falesnik: I just put it under my name and that could sued.

Jeremy Schumacher: Right, right and trademark in and all that stuff. Yeah and…

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: and stumbling your way through it. You would know how to do the therapy and how to connect with people but the business is a whole separate profession almost

Danielle Falesnik: absolutely, absolutely, but I did take a Hiatus between October and may where I was working for another larger Health System briefly and when I had kind of Softly shut the doors last fall, I did so knowing that I would likely return back to it. and it did not take long for me to realize …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: what have I done but quick open the shutter throw the doors open we're going back into this because It's hard to see. I think it's almost like a siloing of just people who really need mental health care services, but they're kind of like

Danielle Falesnik: Herded and cattled around right? that's kind of trying not to say some weird dystopian post-apocalyptic situation, but it kind of feels like that sometimes and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: so, my aim is really to make this. less scary for people and in a safe place to come and really work through whatever it is that they've been afraid to work through or have felt really misunderstood because again in that large Healthcare System If your general practice Psychotherapy, you just get whatever walks in the door, you…

Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: So if I am looking for queer competent care, and I get parked with

Danielle Falesnik: Sally Joe who is attending Episcopalian Church every day, it makes it uncomfortable to talk about those things so

Jeremy Schumacher: Right. Yeah. Yeah, and…

Danielle Falesnik: yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: and working with the queer Community working with some of that neurodivergence people don't know they have it until they're in therapy and a lot of queer folks are not comfortable for very valid reasons going through something like insurance or having a paper trail that's showing that's what they're looking for with their therapy. Wisconsin is one of those weird states where we're Sometimes liberal leaning and…

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: also very conservative laws still very much on the books.

Danielle Falesnik: It's very good. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: So it's

Jeremy Schumacher: and you're in the Fox Valley which is outside of what we maybe think of as the progressive safe havens of Milwaukee and Madison.

Danielle Falesnik: surprisingly though, Appleton. Is far more Progressive than I had ever anticipated. So, we're seeing I'd say even in the last two or three years a big big.

Danielle Falesnik: Kind of opening of arms to people who are in the queer Community people are a lot more supportive. and it's kind of hard to gauge it now because let's probably just ending everybody still has their pride flags up and all that. But even year round of seeing a lot more inclusive spaces kind of trying to pop up and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.

Danielle Falesnik: I'm really supportive of those businesses as well. A lot of them are my friends and we do it we can

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah quick. Shout out to shop local and support queer owned business. what if you don't mind sharing what was kind of your journey with neurodivergence if it's lived experience where was that kind of a specialty or a population that you decided you wanted to work with?

Danielle Falesnik: It was a again kind of wandering around an errant child. I finally figured it out I had. A pretty significant head injury when I was 13. I was in a car accident and you never really had any formal follow-up from that which is kind of surprising but also not it was you…

Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.

Danielle Falesnik: the late 90s, but

00:10:00

Danielle Falesnik: After working for a few years. I think I was 10 years into practice at this point. I was like just something just off. I had already been diagnosed with ADHD. I knew that that was on board and Alive and Kicking It well, but I was like there's something else and so I started working. We've got a neuropsychological evaluation on myself and sure enough. I spectral and ADHD and all the gray matter seems to be where it's supposed to be which is a good thing, but it just fires a little differently.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: and so it's been really fascinating as a clinician even to just see where

Danielle Falesnik: Audi HD, any of those neurological so ADHD OCD and autism how are preconceived notion of that even as trained clinicians in the field is with hand flapping stems. We're looking for people with large Vocal Stems, …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: and it was fascinating the other day. my partner was talking to me about here. how can somebody say you don't look autistic. I said Google it was Google. What does a person with autism look like if you see people with Down syndrome with muscular dystrophy is just like nobody doesn't make sense.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: They look like my children. They look like just normal people and I think that whole Paradigm of

Danielle Falesnik: It doesn't show. Yeah, so you must be very high functioning. It's like no I'm very much at risk for Burnout but learning right and so, when people say what's the point of getting an Autism diagnosis in your adulthood? there's a lot of reasons if we can understand How we work how we think what are the things that motivate us? All sudden we can put skills and adaptations in place and utilize things like occupational therapy for sensory stuff.

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Danielle Falesnik: And we Thrive anxiety of the depression go away. Yeah, maybe not entirely but it's a lot easier to cope with it than at that point.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah and I talk about that. I see a lot of adults that I'm the first person who's diagnosing them often. They're coming to therapy with a history of anxiety diagnoses if they're female or bipolar diagnoses for females people of color. That's really common. it's this underlying neurodivergence and they've just been trying to manage it but not understanding what was really going on. So even if they don't pursue medication that diagnosis is helpful for management for skill building and like you said some of the self-esteem stuff that goes along with it. You're not thinking you're deficient. You're not blaming yourself for these things. You understand. This is just how your brain works. And so there was ways to manage that and react to it that are more or less helpful, but it's one of those things where that's just how your brain works. It's always been there and it's always going to be there. There isn't a medication or a fix for it. It's learning how to work with it.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah, and anything that is the big piece of white, when people are knowingly I have a hunt. I have a lunch. It's like what if you have a hunch you probably are because that's the other thing that always kind of Made me gig a little bit. I've seen now a few things on social media where people kind of comment on this but it's like we hear all they must just be faking their diagnosis, they don't have it. They just need it because nobody wants to fake this promise.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, right.

Danielle Falesnik: Nobody's looking for these types of adaptations to be needed in their life, but it's helpful and I think it makes people feel

Danielle Falesnik: I guess there's a sense of Mastery that people develop once. They're not like you said so inwardly beating themselves up with that inner critic. I'm so lazy or why am I so dumb or forgetful or messy or whatever it is and that compassionate voice can kind of start taking over a little bit, but Yeah, that one always kind of boggled me there just faking it. No, no,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, but yes,…

Danielle Falesnik: they're good.

Jeremy Schumacher: it's It's not a superpower. f*** that book from the 90s. but I think it's really helpful for clients too to see professionals who have lived experience because the way we are taught and trained in our schooling is very much a deficit model of this is how you do diagnosis. And so seeing someone who has it who owns their own practice or who's been in a business and a professional level degree for years and years and been successful we have this idea that autism and ADHD are people in school who are failing and not doing well and that's what it looks like. So seeing someone who has their degrees on the wall or has a business that they run I think that's really meaningful for people to have that model for them.

00:15:00

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah, it's funny though. You mention the school the school district half of them freak out when they see me coming because my son has ADHD and autism as well. He's going into fourth grade. He was entered into the tag program for reading he was a hyperlexic. So he started just spontaneously reading when he was three and a half four years old and very fluent. but he struggles with the mathematics in him aren't they like oil and water? Right? And I think it's really just because that part of his brain is just not interested in it, he tries and we had to seek so some supports for him for ot to kind of keep them calm through that then I'll never forget this teacher was like

Danielle Falesnik: He's smart. He can do it. He just doesn't want to I said Hold up. Is that let me break it down this way. I'm certain you're probably familiar with. Pervasive demand avoidance, And so to try to explain that to people is really tough and I said it's like this. So if you're standing in front of a hot stove with me and that little burners red hot and I say go ahead put your hand on that. They're going to recoil they're gonna say absolutely why not you can you just don't want to? And then they kind of get it, so it's like just because they doesn't mean that it's so cognitively taxing that can actually cause distressive people. So

Danielle Falesnik: being me just kind of continuing to try to educate people and stuff like that. So that maybe someday we can shift that perspective a little bit more and help kids at school so that they don't end up being stressed out adults like us.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: mmm

Jeremy Schumacher: And something like PDA even just the Rebrand of Now my brain's blanking on the revat,…

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Pervasive drive for autonomy understanding that This is a structure institution education that isn't designed with neurodivergence in mind.

Danielle Falesnik: right and if anything, depending on how much of a conspiracy theorist one is,…

Jeremy Schumacher: And so it's the cookie cutter approach.

Danielle Falesnik: I think that it is actively designed to kind of pull that out of kids,…

Jeremy Schumacher: It's the Henry Ford factory model of everybody goes through it this way. And when you have a brain that will do it when it is properly motivated to do it when it has reason or…

Danielle Falesnik: right so that creativity that out of the box thinking that if everybody is homogeneous in that sense,…

Jeremy Schumacher: autonomy to choose to do it. That's not a space that we have in our education system.

Danielle Falesnik: then it's a lot easier to Move them around,…

Jeremy Schumacher: So it's not a skill issue or…

Danielle Falesnik: right? but I think we're getting closer and…

Jeremy Schumacher: it's not that it's a brain chemistry issue and so figuring out right how do we create a different format for autonomy…

Danielle Falesnik: closer and closer and really microscopic Little Steps,…

Jeremy Schumacher: where this child can choose where they're putting their brain energy and…

Danielle Falesnik: but we're not taking jumps backwards anymore,…

Jeremy Schumacher: get rewarded accordingly…

Danielle Falesnik: which is A positive thing I think.

Jeremy Schumacher: because that's how their brain is wired instead of pretending kids care about grades or A's at the end of semester or like that anything like that is Meaningful to them.

Danielle Falesnik: that's what

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

00:20:00

Danielle Falesnik: right

Jeremy Schumacher: So yes, there is that pendulum swaying with the political movements certainly.

Danielle Falesnik: right Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: But yeah, I mean even my six year old is in kindergarten and…

Danielle Falesnik: Build No, Child Left Behind. That's situation.

Jeremy Schumacher: almost assuredly has ADHD and it's one of those things where he's at a Waldorf School. So it's really good fit. But there's also this Balancing Act of as he gets older something like Waldorf has less resources less support. And so you're looking at that balance of this is better for his brain for how his brain wants to do things. But also at some point we might need more support or…

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: there might be resources that just aren't available at a small school like that. And so it's this Balancing Act of again,…

Danielle Falesnik: Right. …

Jeremy Schumacher: it's not the kids fault.

Danielle Falesnik: and I guess that might be a good segue so part of you…

Jeremy Schumacher: But as a parent, you're trying to navigate A system that isn't designed with your child's Wellness in mind.

Danielle Falesnik: I think what Makes my practice a little bit. Different and…

Jeremy Schumacher: It is designed with…

Danielle Falesnik: what traditionally people find is that incorporation of more of the metaphysical stuff?

Jeremy Schumacher: how do we get most people through this to be functional members of society.

Danielle Falesnik: So a lot of times when people do find me, they're like so I read on here that your tarot reader that you do mediumship work blah,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. I think we're in similar age group like I grew…

Danielle Falesnik: and that's been intriguing more and…

Danielle Falesnik: more people. So one of the things I noticed.

Jeremy Schumacher: Obviously ADHD,…

Jeremy Schumacher: but I didn't get diagnosed…

Jeremy Schumacher: till I was in my post- my last semester of grad school…

Danielle Falesnik: I would say.

Jeremy Schumacher: because I got good grades. And so again just the way the system is designed is to catch a certain form of impairment and…

Danielle Falesnik: late 2019 maybe 18 even and…

Danielle Falesnik: then right around with a pandemic hit I started picking up on more and…

Jeremy Schumacher: everything else is either ignored or misdiagnosed somewhere else.

Danielle Falesnik: more people who had

Danielle Falesnik: very apparent psychic abilities, but they had no concept or awareness of it and back then it was like maybe you Two or three out of my case load I could pick up on and I talked to them about that that I've never gotten to talk to anybody about this before, I just did one of these people think it was crazy. I was like, that's okay. I already think you're crazy, but we can keep going. but then by 2022

Danielle Falesnik: were knocking at 30 40 percent of my keys load now showing up with ESP capabilities, so some people obviously hire on that Spectrum than others but then looking at the crossover event between Autism ADHD OCD and it's like a capabilities is insane. So I had the privilege of working with the traffic center in Fond du Lac for a period of time and they do some work in kind of looking at that with people who are savants and seeing ASP as a savant type gift right in a very much is and I think some people who are

Danielle Falesnik: Starting to learn more about it. Definitely don't always see it as a gift. Sometimes. It's kind of more of a curse it can feel like but that's been an interesting. Population to kind of access as well as people who are going through spiritual Awakenings, we see all these spirituality coaches and Social Media stuff like that and that stuff is expensive just out of curiosity. I've put my feelers out there to see what are people charging. There's some people that are 750 dollars an hour and it's Like what so I saw a need for that within the market. So that was kind of the drive to get my Reiki Master's certification and then I've been reading tarot since I was 15, so that's going on. Yeah, 25 years now.

Jeremy Schumacher: The Stray yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: so it's been interesting kind of seeing the crossover with young Aleister Crowley and the writer wait decks and the tostex and seeing how Kind of those archetypal systems can be kind of found within that using it as narrative therapy using it as just kind of like a fresh perspective on. how do I move forward in life,

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

00:25:00

Jeremy Schumacher: And I think I came across your work just searching for lgbtq+ friendly therapist.

Danielle Falesnik: Right, and I think it's what I find fascinating because I'm a recovering castleholic myself and it's hard. At first I think and not even at first it comes and goes it's like it is traumatic where you kind of get these constructs in your mind about Theology and about how spirituality is supposed to operate, the whole concepts of good versus evil, in my practice. It is very non-theological right…

Jeremy Schumacher: I'm gonna say meaning making that ends up looking some version of spirituality.

Danielle Falesnik: if a person has any deity or…

Jeremy Schumacher: And so I think A lot of folks are looking for…

Danielle Falesnik: whomever that they kind of focus their intention to worship or…

Jeremy Schumacher: what does that look like in their life? What does that mean with less restrictive dogmatic sort of structure.

Danielle Falesnik: honor totally okay with that myself. I'm more of a source creature, So I think it's just a bunch of jelly up there somewhere right like who knows?

Danielle Falesnik: but try to Frame it especially to those populations where it's less of this esoteric wonder and can be very fearful and fear base special it's a devil no, it It's just a plain part. I can get you it's not gonna get anybody. But in essence to practice spirituality is to learn how to clear your mind of thoughts how to be in the present moment how to identify differentiate your thoughts your feelings

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: And then your higher Consciousness, And so it's kind of like if you tell yourself think about what you're thinking right now and thinking about right along Minnesota, How do you feel about that? Maybe a little thirsty? Okay, and that could be anxiety thoughts and it could be anxiety feelings. It could be pain in my back but then kind of the trickery of the question is then who did you I told that to myself So they tell your You tell your higher Consciousness things and so just kind of helping people tap into the wisdom of themselves is a lot of fun.

Danielle Falesnik: Lord

Danielle Falesnik: Thank to deal with a lot okay.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: So I was super stoked to talk to you about some of the stuff today and you brought up the idea that some spiritual pouches and wellness spaces are charging and exorbitant amount of money for stuff like this. So when you're working with neurodivergent folks queer folks, I would say merchantalized community folks who are looking for these type of services. How do you recommend that they find someone who isn't like a snake oil salesman or isn't taking advantage of them with these expensive readings or these kind of super expensive Retreats and stuff like that. How do you kind of navigate that How do clients find someone like you who has lived experience and licensure that can be helpful.

Danielle Falesnik: These are that and that's a really phenomenal question. So a good friend of mine is his name is Matt Schmidt, and he's a qht practitioner up in the Green Bay Area, and like you said how do you know that these people aren't just out to make a quick buck and just running numbers and sending it whatever bogus stuff. Matt my buddy He's gonna correct me. I'm sure he was a scientist. Let's say that he was working in a lab developing pharmaceutical drugs and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.

Danielle Falesnik: it was Just killing his spirit and he knew that's not what he wanted to do. He wanted to go into something different to help people and I think it's about not jumping into

Danielle Falesnik: the clickbaitliness of it a lot of times if you're working with any spiritual practitioner, if they're telling you free up limited time, let us face act. Now any of those kind of triggers, especially for people who have ADHD? it hits our dopamine centers that fear-based motivation stuff just goes off the charts. We're quick get my credit card because I'm gonna miss this opportunity. No, you're not, so I say take time and ask for references For and also look at what is the refund policies with people it's in my own policy if you are like, this is absolute junk and I got nothing from Through okay, here's your money back. That's fine. Because I know that at minimum.

Danielle Falesnik: people will find benefit in quality practitioner when you kind of have that we're not here to take a bunch of stuff from you and just because somebody charges An insane amount of money for something doesn't mean that they're great at what they do. …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: the other thing is really asking people What are your qualifications in some states?

Danielle Falesnik: I don't even know honestly Wisconsin is one of them. It's probably something I should know again winging things that definitely shouldn't be winging but that you have to have actual tarot reading. What's the permits and stuff like that for certain cities or certain ordinances? Are you registered anywhere with the county state? Do you have any medical practice licenses? Are they current do you carry insurance right because I think the biggest concern I have with people handing out just pure.

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Danielle Falesnik: tarot readings as a stopgap for mental health services is that

Danielle Falesnik: There's a risk of harm, and even in just traditional Psychotherapy using empirically tested evidence-based modalities. You can still create harm in the sense that you're going to experience it uncomfortable feeling. So then what happens when somebody becomes suicidal over hearing something that they didn't want to hear or understands out there…

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Danielle Falesnik: where people will just Make stuff up and make it flowery make it look good. And then these people are left out of money and feeling worse than where they started. So it really comes down to do your research ask questions.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: And if anybody gets Uptight or snobby? That's not your person,

Jeremy Schumacher: I love that advice, Again, I think the quick buck and turn it or some of the social media influencers and some of the stuff who are not centrally located. They're not consistently available. And so they're coming through town or they're running or Retreat or a conference or whatever for a weekend and then you're not going to hear from them again. And so that's always kind of really high alert for me.

00:05:00

Danielle Falesnik: That's a red flag. Yeah, where they're DM me now the book of consultation then again, I always like testing these systems, right? So I'm like, what's this about and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: when I send it I get Robo responses of I booked up I'm not accepting new clients then why are you running an ad? So they get followers,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: so they get that income based on their social media following.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I come from the religious trauma background being raised fundamentalist.

Danielle Falesnik: So yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: But also then get in certified to work with it where anyone who's sort of preaching or putting out there that they have unique Insight or that they're the only person who can help you again is really big even if it's a therapist who's license like that type of talk is almost always leading a dogmatic approaches and is probably some version of a scam. But that speaks to a vulnerable population and…

Danielle Falesnik: it will in exactly and…

Jeremy Schumacher: that's what people want. Is that unique insight?

Danielle Falesnik: so our roles as therapists is we're working within very vulnerable and traumatized population who's just looking for help, I can't even tell you how many times my clients have been like I am so sick of going to the doctor and being told it's in my head and having to reframe psychosomaticists to people it isn't like the pain you feel is real it exists.

Danielle Falesnik: It's that old school perception of we don't see it. So it doesn't exist. And then I think shows like House and…

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Danielle Falesnik: Gray's Anatomy really kind of romanticize this what if there's a penny stuck in your ear and that's why you can't walk anymore right people get concerned and…

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Danielle Falesnik: I think Where mental health and even physical health systems really miss the Mark is they don't communicate with one another and …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: Dr. Schmidt out of Fond du Lac was a really amazing person to work with for a period of time. She's an integrative Medicine specialist there at SSM and she really just did a fantastic job of taking

Danielle Falesnik: A psychotherapist who is a Reiki practitioner. I worked alongside an acupuncturist and a massage therapist an RN as a team, and it was just a really cool experience to see a little segment of the Healthcare System operating in a very kind of I don't want to say novel way, but an intelligent way and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: kind of like a common sense based situation.

Jeremy Schumacher: And that collaboration is really helpful. I mean obviously as practitioners for us to have good referral sources and support systems, but for clients to know that It's your care if this big hospital conglomeration doesn't want to share your stuff or isn't communicating or getting back to advocate for yourself and that's work for people I get it that's complex on purpose but it is one of those things where that's why I'm outside of the insurance sphere and connect with acupuncturist and other doctors who take private pay and stuff like that because those are the people who are easy to connect with and who want to practice in a collaborative way not just your client number 30 of the day and they can give you 15 minutes and…

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah. Yeah,…

Jeremy Schumacher: then you're on your way.

Danielle Falesnik: then I don't want to be like all insurance is bad insurance is just a pain in the butt. It's like you need a doctorate in order to understand what you're doing,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: but I'm knocking on 40 I have been doing this for years and I am just now barely getting Wrangle on the actual

Danielle Falesnik: How does one panel for insurance company? And so many therapists are just wiping their hands and it isn't necessarily fair to put that back on the consumer to say. Hey, why don't you call them ask about super bill,…

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Danielle Falesnik: but we're up because if we're forgetting that we have an electric bill every other month, it's gonna be difficult to follow up on those really complex multi-system tasks. That's a big reason and I did get it I ran through and I wanted to make sure it was up in functioning before I share it but I'm starting queer connect through my business trying to develop a fund, earlier we talked about people who are just afraid of using their insurance because either they don't want an Autism diagnosis directly on their

00:10:00

Danielle Falesnik: record because of how they're treated in the healthcare system or…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: maybe they're married and identifying that there may be now gay and now they're afraid of their own confidentiality for very Realistic reasons so sometimes people can't afford it.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: And so my hope is to over the next couple years really build this up so that I guess but the socialism I guess. no. You…

Jeremy Schumacher: What a novel idea.

Danielle Falesnik: I really believe that people deserve access to competent care not just good enough care,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: but

Danielle Falesnik: No, we need to talk about relationship differences. Especially I work a lot with polyamory communities. They work a lot with Kink.

Jeremy Schumacher: Mm-hmm

Danielle Falesnik: I work with basically anything under that umbrella and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: those are things that people are just How do you talk to the 20 year old that answers the phone at the giant Clinic that says and what do you want to talk about? Nobody wants to be like I might be a top or bottom or switch. I don't know what that means. But I've tried to figure it out and it's like,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: so they're depression anxiety and then they just kind of get shuffled, so this is hopefully a step.

Danielle Falesnik: In the right direction, so people who need help paying. I keep my rates low. they max out at a hundred and I think For now, it's one step in the right direction.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I talked about this a lot because I have a lot of Private Practice owners on there's this back and forth for us as well. as therapists invest in this system. We didn't design the system or create it. We're under capitalism as much as our clients are and…

Danielle Falesnik: 

Jeremy Schumacher: so there's this back and forth of how do we pay our bills? And also make sure we're available. To people and…

Danielle Falesnik: right

Jeremy Schumacher: it is I got so burnt out on insurance as a marriage therapist. my licensure is licensed marriage and family therapist. Because they would cap my sentence all the time.

Danielle Falesnik: Trying to figure out who's the identified patient and…

Danielle Falesnik: then who's turned it? Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, or…

Jeremy Schumacher: you get six sessions or you're through an EAP you get three sessions? So it's great that you have insurance. But also you're not. covered for the therapy that you actually need or for the length of therapy that you might need couples therapy often just takes longer which is one of those things where it's like I'm not available to everyone based on my hourly rate, but also Trying to balance it out with things like a podcast the YouTube channel giving back and…

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah. Absolutely.

Jeremy Schumacher: community events, like speaking engagements like that stuff that tries to be more accessible to people.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: So, if I had one wish upon a star the game flying across this room right now, I would say anybody who's listening to this who has everything taken care of for themselves as identify local resources that are of value to you and that people find important, might yeah and Anonymous donor recently just say let me help with this, and that was a big decision in the past when I had kind of softly shut the doors I was given away a lot of time and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: energy and again they don't teach us business in the therapy school. I'm like, I got time, right and then that adds up and it Stacks up with overhead and utilities Etc after a while. You're like, I'm going backwards. So my hope is not have that strain on me is

Danielle Falesnik: therapist so that I'm able to be there and be present and be accountable and show up. then people aren't scraping and going without. because they're so stressed. They can't keep going,

00:15:00

Jeremy Schumacher: The university is making money off these student-athletes. So they're willing to invest but that collaborative One-Stop shop for all your Wellness for these professionals who can communicate each other to each other exists. We just don't offer it to everyone.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah, I don't know if you saw I haven't watched it. I know there's a documentary out. I don't remember what streaming service on it's called clipped and it does start to talk about the word is slipping by me, but just kind of the greed and stuff behind big NFL MBA Sports even college now is getting like you said just

Jeremy Schumacher: 

Jeremy Schumacher: I'm not defending or advocating for higher ed and the way they make money off of student athletes. I'm just saying from a provider standpoint. That's lovely to think every professional athletic trainer physio nutritionist mental dental health Eye Care. Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: yeah, yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: Wouldn't it be awesome if you just had your own Entourage of Health Advocates be Are you drinking water today? Maybe I'll stop getting angry when people ask me that question someday.

Jeremy Schumacher: right Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: I don't know probably not…

Danielle Falesnik: but up

Jeremy Schumacher: One of the this is just a hard left turn here.

Jeremy Schumacher: One of the other things you said earlier that I wanted to go back to was spirituality as grounding.

Jeremy Schumacher: And I love that mentality it kind of again with some of the like…

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: how do you know if you're getting good quality help or someone scamming you is like again who's doing the work when I'm talking with clients recovering from religious trauma. I'm very open and transparent that to believe. I don't really care what you end up believing. It's up to I'm a facilitator. I'm not doing this for you you're doing the work and…

Danielle Falesnik: I

Jeremy Schumacher: so I find that so much of that is more helpful for people. I see people who want to do psychedelics who want to get into tarot or whatever it is. They've left High control religion and they're looking for meaning making elsewhere but they're used to a prescriptive nature to it. They were raised Catholic or even jelica who said this is the way to do it. So they're kind of used to that and they come to therapy and I' I'm not telling you what to do. it's all kind of up to you and I think that's really hard for people but I love That you said spirituality is grounding cuz right it's finding yourself and finding your autonomy.

Danielle Falesnik: the big joke in my practice and on many my patients know this is We know the worksheet five things. You can see four things. You can touch three things. You could like blah, and I was like, what does that mean to you? They're like, I don't. Think okay. Let's break that down right and my aim is always to take things that don't make sense to help them make sense of it. So even Concepts like you have to love yourself before you love other and I tell my patients.

Danielle Falesnik: When I hear that, I want to bang my head against the wall because it's like…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: what does that mean? Right because nobody ever really adequately explains it. It's like you gotta love yourself. like I do, so that's where I found, skills like looking at body integration affirmation work and reparenting nering and providing those critical messages from childhood and early adolescents that we never had. and

Danielle Falesnik: 99% of the time I'm crying. We're just trying to read through it Troopers that were like,…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: We're good, but it's like how do we take these kind of cliche terms that are just fluffed around? And how do I actually make sense in To normal human people outside of those clinical terms the clinical route like how normal people talk the first time I heard my son say my peers. I was like, you're whacked. what did you just Michael my peers? You mean friends kids at school?

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: What does that mean? And he was like, yeah, I mean my friends, so it's kind of like Let's call it what it is in kind of break away from those things truthfully in terms of spirituality. I think.

Danielle Falesnik: At the very root of things. Depression born from way too much time ruminating on the past or what could have been anxiety way too much time ruminating on the future. So it's all time traveling right and…

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

00:20:00

Danielle Falesnik: If anybody were to ever ask me, what's the meaning of life? it's experiencing now, and I will with people who are open to it launch off into my channeling observations and thoughts on what greater things are saying, but ultimately I think if We are too hyper focused on creating things and creating things and creating things. Then we're going to end up spending more time going backwards and fixing mistakes. Then if we're just

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and…

Danielle Falesnik: two feet on the ground

Jeremy Schumacher: talk about connection and meaning making a lot with my clients is your meeting making your relation to where you are to who's around you to those relationships like having some autonomy and in what does that mean to you and understanding there isn't a correct answer to that you get to decide you get to choose what that means to you.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: And that can be paralysis too many options. But when you learn to kind of roll with that, it becomes such a more healthy and more accessible way to be you're kind of authentic genuine self.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah, and…

Jeremy Schumacher: And even those get cliched those terms get cliched.

Danielle Falesnik: I think at the core of working with spectral populations,…

Jeremy Schumacher: But I find that …

Danielle Falesnik: I mean even OCD communicating the thought processes lay there are so hard for people…

Jeremy Schumacher: yeah that's overwhelming at first and then once you kind of learn, what's my body saying to me, how is my brain and body connection?

Danielle Falesnik: so detrimental to their overall being.

Jeremy Schumacher: What's my connection to my present moment? Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: So they're like,…

Jeremy Schumacher: It's telling you things it's talking to you and…

Danielle Falesnik: I can't talk about why I want to you…

Jeremy Schumacher: learning how to Create some meaning out of that is…

Danielle Falesnik: eat this gallon of milk over the Isle of the grocery store,…

Jeremy Schumacher: where people eventually land.

Danielle Falesnik: but I really want to do it but I'm not gonna do it. But if I say that out loud to anybody

Danielle Falesnik: They're gonna think I'm nuts. Yeah, it's like no this is normal thinking Behavior. This is normal kind of processes. is it adaptive? Maybe not as long as you don't let it lead into the maladaptive nature of things then, we can control it we can work with it. But yeah, I definitely try to see that for sure.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: right

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I love the Paradigm.

Danielle Falesnik: It's like that like a YouTube meme or…

Jeremy Schumacher: I always use it again. A lot of my case load is religious trauma.

Danielle Falesnik: something. if you wanted cheeseburger Eat A Cheeseburger,…

Jeremy Schumacher: So it's steer away from right and…

Danielle Falesnik: if you want some french fries some french fries.

Jeremy Schumacher: wrong and…

Danielle Falesnik: It's like just if it's making you happy.

Jeremy Schumacher: it was helpful and unhelpful. So you said adaptive and…

Danielle Falesnik: I have a tea party with raccoons for all I care just as long as it's not hurting people or…

Jeremy Schumacher: maladaptive we can go off of evidence. How does this actually work for you rather than…

Danielle Falesnik: putting you at risk. I think those controlled paradigms like you said of right and…

Jeremy Schumacher: what your mom or dad or Society or boss or whomever is trying to tell you is the correct way to do it.

Danielle Falesnik: wrong and it's a hurts people it does

Jeremy Schumacher: right

Danielle Falesnik: At my website's pretty easy to find it's just …

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: fortuna.com d e s t i n o f o r t u and a Comm. Otherwise you can find me on psychology today.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Danielle Falesnik: I have a profile there by try to make it as simple and…

Jeremy Schumacher: This has been so lovely to get to chat Tuesday, if people want to learn more about your work or…

Danielle Falesnik: Least Complicated as possible.

Jeremy Schumacher: want to work with you,…

Jeremy Schumacher: where do they go? How do they find you?

Danielle Falesnik: They're literally 25 different ways.

Danielle Falesnik: You can get a hold of me.

Danielle Falesnik: It's yeah, yeah. All right.

Danielle Falesnik: Yeah, it's been actually really fun. Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, and you have a unique last name.

Danielle Falesnik: Bye.

Jeremy Schumacher: So if people Google you that comes up first, too.

Jeremy Schumacher: And we will have all those links in the show notes. So people can find you do anything so much for taking the time and coming on the show today.

Jeremy Schumacher: And to all our wonderful listeners, thanks for tuning in again this week. We'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care everyone.

Meeting ended after 00:24:37 👋