Your Therapist Needs Therapy 72 - On an Island with Bria Servoss

This week Jeremy is joined by Bria Servoss of Archipelago Counseling. Bria shares her winding journey into the mental health field, which began with aspirations in music and hairdressing before transitioning into therapy. She discusses the intimate, therapeutic nature of hairdressing and her eventual decision to pursue social work during the pandemic, despite facing challenges in academia due to her inquisitive nature. Both Bria and Jeremy reflect on the value of authenticity in therapy, as well as the importance of balancing professional demands with self-care, especially for neurodivergent therapists.

You can learn more about Bria and her work at www.archipelago-counseling-llc.com or give her a follow on Instagram @archipelago_counseling

Jeremy has all his practice info at Wellness with Jer, and you can find him on Instagram and YouTube.

Head over to Patreon to support the show, or you can pick up some merch! We appreciate support from likes, follows, and shares as well!

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Podcasts about therapy do not replace actual therapy, and listening to a podcast about therapy does not signify a therapeutic relationship.

If you or someone you know is in crisis please call or text the nationwide crisis line at 988, or text HELLO to 741741. The Trevor Project has a crisis line for LGBTQ+ young people that can be reached by texting 678678.

Transcript

Your Therapist Needs Therapy - Bria Servoss – 2024/09/18 10:00 CDT – Transcript
Attendees
Bria Servoss, Jeremy Schumacher
Transcript
Jeremy Schumacher: Hello and Welcome to another edition of your therapist Needs Therapy, The podcast for two mental health professionals, talk about their mental health journey and how they navigate mental wellness while working in the mental health field. I'm your host Jeremy Schumacher, licensed marriage and family therapist. Servoss. We talked about it, I wrote it down and I was like, I'm gonna say it wrong servoss.
Jeremy Schumacher: And yeah, let's jump in. We can talk about how we sort of connected and the overlap in our work. But the first question, I ask everybody for every episode is, How did you end up working in the mental health field?
Bria Servoss: Yeah, yeah. so people ask me this, I have a wandering. Maybe this is your story as well but this wandering, kind of way I did things backwards. Quote Unquote is what I've told people it's essential of I got out of high school and I was an AP. Psych actually in for whatever that's worse in my senior year of high school and my teacher at the time he was like you should go into this and I was like, Yeah, maybe I don't know I'm gonna be a rock and roll star and he was like Okay. you could do this and I ended up going moving towards doing hair actually and I liked psychology, I always like the idea of the human mind and how people kind of operate
Bria Servoss: but I wasn't ready for college and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Okay.
Bria Servoss: so I just ended up becoming a hairdresser so that I could support myself by saying and I sang jazz and I saying all these different types of things. I did these weird chamber rock things. I eventually moved to Chicago, where I continued to do that, did music went back to school. When I was 24 dropped out again, went back graduated at 30 with a psych degree and women's and genders, gender Women's Studies minor And feminist emphasis, and I thought, Okay, I finally did it and that's abridged version but I won't waste your time. I mean, going into her but I didn't end up going into psychology. And then I decided I'm gonna get my side D and my psychology doctorate. And after one semester, I said, I cannot do the Ivory Tower. This is not for me. These people
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: have so much ego, and it was like I got the good grades, I did all the things, I wrote the papers but I asked too many questions, And They said this is graduate school. You should actually have those questions already answered for you, in undergrad. Quit asking them. It's like you yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: geez.
Bria Servoss: it Was interesting. and I was like, Forget this. I'm not doing this. So right?
Jeremy Schumacher: Mmm.
Bria Servoss: Opt out and thought I'm just never gonna be able to be the therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, and then eventually one of my cut to me. I moved Madison. because I was in Chicago for nearly 15 years, had a child Then did everything backwards.
Bria Servoss: Because I didn't get married, I had a kid. We split up. And a few years later, I'm sitting with a hair client in my chair. And she's in her, social work program in Madison, and she's one of my dear friends now, but she's Go back wire because I was telling us I always thought I should do there. I'd be a therapist.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: So, I did and I went through it during the pandemic and I studied hard and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: had a couple nervous breakdowns and Yeah, here I am.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, there's a bunch that I want to follow up with there, but I'm going to start with the hairdressing piece because I get my haircut once every three years it's still long. I just got a foot off of it but I like to joke with my hairdresser about how she's really just doing therapy and it's just a different setting and helping. the degree is what dictates apparently in our modern society. Who gets to be an expert and who doesn't? And again I think there's utility to having an expert. I think there's utility I don't like these word expert. I think training matters. I think the knowledge base we gather through our education is important but viewing it wide lens as helpers when I was in grad school, one of my supervisors said I should be a bartender and
00:05:00
Jeremy Schumacher: I went and learned how to be a bartender and I'm an introvert. So I good with talking people but not in that setting, but it was like again for those of us they think who are current kind of drawn to this work. we connect with people and that's the skill that's the sort of innate ability.
Bria Servoss: I think too. There's all this crisis work that you come in, in those jobs in those trades, like bartending hairdressing, there's this, you're because in these people's lives in this really intimate way. I mean, you're either serving drinks and they want to talk, they want to spill their guts. because you're a safe place, you've heard it all quote unquote, all those things and aim for hairdressing,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: except you give your hands on your body, it's in their hair. it's very weird that your breath is in their face for some of the things.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: It's very intimate and That piece I think they feel, You become connected to each other in a really intimate way. And so they tell you things and I think you end up in crisis situations too. I had a client years ago who her ex showed up and was stalking. The salon he was outside and she said I have to tell you something and I ended up basically doing a safety check with her before I had those kids and making sure that I see that she was going to be okay…
Jeremy Schumacher: Right.
Bria Servoss: if I let her leave and I gave her information to the domestic violence shelter nearby. And I mean it was all of these kind of things and I realized that was the, moments like that or the time, a woman wanted me to cut Her dreads all off and that was in it, symbolized a lot of trauma for her and checking in with her throughout the haircut and Are we okay you want to keep going? And these moments where I was like, this is Incredible, it's an honor.
Bria Servoss: I want to do this more, like I want to do this all the time, I want to do this stuff.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: so, Yeah, I mean getting in the room it's interesting. The rapport part of building of working with clients is a snap for me. Because it is one on because it's one-on-one or one on two I guess. Or mult depending but it's easier than I'd say.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I can't even imagine doing I love the idea of bartending but the fact that that's a lot. I don't know if you have sensory stuff but that was one of the things during when I did hair, I would like be listening to someone and not all hairdressers. I'm sure, this are quiet, They talk a lot and I wouldn't be able to hear what my client was saying, because I'd be trying to listen to them, but I'd be distracted. So that I didn't realize at the time, that was my auditory stuff coming up and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: it would make me just irritable and angry in these moments, And so, yeah, the fact that I found out later I was ADHD, I was like all of the things in my life are kind of only place and that was one of them.
Jeremy Schumacher: my ADHD is why I don't get my haircut very often for the things you were talking about about having someone right in my face. that's all very I will say discomfort in for me and so it's not to look cool or because I'm a hipster, it's because I don't like having people in my face.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, it's deeply Unsolutely and it's everyone. It really isn't just like they're standing above. It's like they're in your space. It's yeah,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. there's some I think vulnerability too.
Bria Servoss: I was Go ahead.
Jeremy Schumacher: You're talking about some of these crisis management situations, you went through but even people talking about what they want to look like or how they're hoping to feel for their look like there's such a easy segue into hopes and dreams and how they feel about themselves and esteem and meaning making even there's a lot of stuff there. In addition to what I would say is probably some of the ritual stuff of getting a regular haircut and it there's a routine. There's a expectation with some of that.
00:10:00
Bria Servoss: I mean There's this show called Fleabag, I don't know if you've ever seen it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, I love Flea Bike. Flea Bag, Watch Fleabag,…
Bria Servoss: Yeah. It is.
Jeremy Schumacher: It's Amazing Season 2 is all about religious trauma. So I like that.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, it's one of the more ingenious. It's in top five in the last 10 years of all shows created and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: it's because what they say what she touches on is it's the vulnerability and it's like the trauma and the unwillingness to kind of see yourself. But also there's this moment in it which is really funny and why I brought it up. Originally, where she walks in with her sister after getting a haircut, and she's
Jeremy Schumacher: You look like the but tip of a pencil.
Bria Servoss: And she goes on that monologue of Jeremy's everything and s it isn't true. that is not true, but emotionally in the moment it is, like, people get very It's so informative and completely, I mean, it can make or break your day. it's psychological. Cool. And actually, I was thinking back to school,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Peppa Pig. I do not think it's gonna happen, but I really want to do research on the effects of hair and transformation and psychological like mental wellness, Because there's nothing out there like it's bizarre.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: But, there are other than
Bria Servoss: women of color and their relationship to their hair. There are a couple studies on that but nothing, and then of course the trans population How does it, affirming? And I just think It's ripe, it's ready?
Jeremy Schumacher: And there's so much identity that can be there. where used to rent? I was right next to another small business that did hair implants. And when I wasn't in session,…
Bria Servoss: Mmm.
Jeremy Schumacher: I had my door open and I could sometimes hear some of what they were talking about, and it's 10 grand for, these hair implants. And I'm just gonna walk over and start stealing their clients to be therapist needs
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I hear I'm not the person to approach you with my hair but also let's talk about what this is doing for yourself. Confidence in your self-esteem.
Bria Servoss: Yes. Yes, like 100%. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: One of the other things you mentioned and that hesitancy about doing research is this academic ivory tower. I will say, the political nature of academics. Is really bad in our profession.
Bria Servoss: Mmm.
Jeremy Schumacher: It's bad everywhere I'm assuming. But for people who are, well, informed about implicit biases and the shortcuts our brains takes, and in group out group dynamics, there's an awful lot of politicking and potentiousness that happens on the academic side of things.
Bria Servoss: Yeah. Yeah, It's a stone. It's really is astounding. And the amount of
Bria Servoss: Professors that don't want to be challenged because on it. I can't speak for them. I have no idea why that is, but I'm a challenge, you kind of person. that's how I learn part of my,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I could say it's part of my neuro divergence, but for most of my license, I wasn't diagnosed. I always said That's how I engage. This is how I Basically put away the information to use for a later date. And also, if I find that there's something that doesn't make sense to me, especially as it's existentialist as someone who is always, questioning the real meaning behind why anyone would do something and then to not be able to or feel kind of, there's always this reluctance I guess from that, I've heard would get in response from certain professors. And I went to see Three different schools over the course, from undergrad, until I got my masters and
Bria Servoss: And in every interview, the only place I really didn't get pushed back, was in my undergrad to be perfectly honest. I got more they liked the engagement. Probably because it was a bunch of 18 year olds who were like, I don't care. But …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I have something to say this is great. this is what we want, this is why we're teaching. but I did not experience that in the master's levels or…
00:15:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Right.
Bria Servoss: it was a lot more just take what we're telling you and why are you not accepting it and you're a rabble rouser or you're a squeaky wheel.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And it would. And for me I just thought that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm more just kind of challenging this idea that whatever you're telling me or whatever reading is just true. I just don't buy into that. I think there are a lot of truths and I think there's a lot of really problematic pieces of research. So sorry, I don't know. Not sorry. I guess, but
Jeremy Schumacher: And we can talk about ADHD and some of the persistent drive for autonomy. And this idea of there is I like to say I'm contrarian by nature there is some of that that your brain is hardwired for not everybody…
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: who has no, divergence has this but it is a subset of behaviors that we know about. And so I think that's some of it. But I was that same way if I wasn't Actively challenging what I was being taught. I was bored and probably not paying attention. So it's kind of like,…
Bria Servoss: What?
Jeremy Schumacher: how I learned to stay focused, was to basically pick fights with my teachers.
Bria Servoss: And there's nothing quite like that dope. Let's be honest. There's only quite like that, dopamine, drip. you're in the midst of kind of pushing the envelope a little and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: yet in defense of that while that might be part of that, the reason that happens, it's also really valuable. I just can't imagine being a professor instructor, whatever never, kind of doing this thing. Every semester it's the same is This is what we do, This is how we talk about it. This is the information I have Doesn't it break up your game a little bit?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Having some like, wait a minute.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. and…
Bria Servoss: I don't know.
Jeremy Schumacher: then I think you mentioned doing feminist studies and having some of that as a background, I was a cultural studies minor which is a little bit different. But I went to University of Minnesota, which is a big research institution. So psychology is science. And then, I took these cultural studies classes that were like, What would Freud say about Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Let's wildly hypothesize. And My brain likes both of those things. I like to go between. The science. the data is useful and also We can't take what the data says, in general, and apply it to individuals. And so we do need this. Ability to kind of connect on a human level and explore and be curious and maintain a lot of that. Otherwise, we're just kind of dogmatic about it.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, I agree. there's a lot of philosophy that I kind of bring into I think my practice and it's for that reason. I mean, I think that there's just so Many. Questions and I think there are more questions and answers and that's okay. And I think to kind of Put the idea of therapy as I…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: everyone's What do they say? It's a science and an art or whatever and I argue it's a theory and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: it can be artful. and in the way that we connect with others, but I think it really should be. I don't know. I feel like sometimes authenticity isn't necessarily pushed as much as it should be. I think they talk about it, but at the end of the day, I think that's the how I do this work is at the end. I'm happily do not know everything.
Bria Servoss: And I think that leaves a lot more room for agency on the client's end, I guess, because you're the one doing. I'm not gonna do this for you. Why would you want me to? I don't know…
Jeremy Schumacher: Right.
Bria Servoss: if we're being real. that seems like it goes against the whole purpose of it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And that's why philosophy back to we were talking about just even classes or university studies and things like that. That's why they're so interesting. Is that it gives you a chance to really work hard and think authentically about how do things kind of piece together? Philosophy was one of my strong suits, I really loved philosophy. It was also one of my worst classes ever because I would often just get super frustrated but that's the purpose. I think.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah,…
Bria Servoss: so, Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I grew up very conservative Christian, which is why I do religious drama work now. But I went to a religious high school and we had a philosophy class which is a terrible way to learn philosophy from a religious high school. But we were studying Voltaire and talking about that dopamine, drip, and pushing back. I remember just kind of raising my hand to be But this dude liked eight year old. So why are we learning what he says about love? And just watching all the blood drained from my professor's face. And nobody else had probably even read it, let alone like gone, and looked up Voltaire, and, done the deep dive that I did, just to have this, let me ruin this class.
00:20:00
Bria Servoss: Jericho.
Jeremy Schumacher: But I was doing and that was my approach with Freud the family history and I'm a marriage therapist needs therapy makes Freud's psychology and all its flaws. Make a lot more sense. And I think again authenticity isn't talked about when I was in grad school 15 years ago it was specifically.
Bria Servoss: Mmm.
Jeremy Schumacher: Dampens. let's not do that. We want to be that blank slate therapist.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, right.
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And I mean we can't erase our past. I mean, we can't. In fact why would we want to? I mean, that's and the idea that this blank slate thing who wants to talk to a professional about how they're about their, deepest fears and trauma. No, right?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And I think there was some question too, because I have this kind of
Bria Servoss: Patchwork quilt, Background and dicey as some dicey, things have bad choices or just interesting choices. It's a choice.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: That's a choice. And I say that to past Bria too because it's a kind of stuff that if my parents only knew, they would have been all just, people and saying Please find our daughter, she's making choices but I think I show up in class and I'm covered in tattoos and it was funny because there was this moment I remember when we were first working and practicum and they record you and do all these things and it was summer so I had sleeveless and
Bria Servoss: I was just sitting in there and one of the feedback it was actually positive. it was lovely, but one of the professors said, and you're very tap, you have a lot of art on your body but what that's authentic to you. That's authentic to how you show up in space, and I'm like, Yeah, I guess that's true. And also, I don't,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I never even think about it because it's just part of my body now. So it's interesting to have people comment on that, but that never even comes up If anything hopefully it's just a non-issue But yeah, I kind of went off and I just went into a tangent, but
Jeremy Schumacher: But I think, it's one of the differences between academia I think and practice my internship sites, loved me they encouraged me to do the licensure program in marriage and family because you're good at this. That seems it makes sense to your brain whereas grad schools, we don't know if you're cut out for this and having a supervisor, who wore slippers because her feet got cold and she was a better therapist. …
Bria Servoss: yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: and again I didn't get my diagnosis till my last semester of grads or postgrad, which is a dumb time to get your ADHD diagnosis but
Jeremy Schumacher: I have a lot of sensory stuff, so, the suit and tie the shirt buttoned all the way up. I can't do that, that's uncomfortable for me. So I had all these people pushing their idea of therapy and then in academia and then when I went into practicum and worked with people who are doing the work, they were like, You have to be comfortable, otherwise, the people you work with won't feel comfortable, like they'll pick up on that. It's like,
Bria Servoss: It's such an equation. It's so easy. You know why?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: That seems it makes so much sense. It's so funny that that's not the most obvious thing when we're in school,
Jeremy Schumacher: and I do have hope for the future that the younger generation is getting a better version of this when I talk to younger therapist.
00:25:00
Bria Servoss: Yeah. I have a colleague. I die since probably starting my private practice. I don't have colleagues. I guess I do kind of but they're in the hallway like that. you don't talk that often tips in the night…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: but at the old the place I came from, I consider a dear friends. he wears his metal shirts every once in a while. if he's just not feeling it, his hair, Where's his metal? She's not. And I think to me that's how be. We should just be, Again, he does great work, does he works the bull's primarily?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And I mean some individuals, too, but I just think is really interesting how you feel like you're forced to show up and be what people like what that looks like online or in TV or whatever? But I mean I mean I remember even thinking because I am prone to wearing lower cut things just because they look better on me but not for any sexy reason or anything like that but file choice,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Sure.
Bria Servoss: and I remember just thinking Okay so what's true for me? Especially if I'm doing work with primarily, women are, like female identified People folks, it's What's the message? If I'm just not being myself, I'm worried about what my boobs like. Is that, what's the apparently?
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Obviously, I don't want to be distracting but if we're worried about distraction, I think about, People notice us, we aren't just blank slates. They notice her hair.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: They notice if we're wearing a pair of pants that they like or skirt or whatever or my tattoos for instance and I think that's part of the deal. Address it if they feel like they want to and move on, I don't know, I don't think it's that big of a deal. And then if I'm also pro sex, which I am, I'm anti-shame posts owning your sexuality, as a part Who am I to sit around and worry about, whether you can see my cleavage. It's just very interesting to me like that. That's a question for a lot of people, but we're human beings.
Jeremy Schumacher: We're human beings. Some of us have boobs, these things happen.
Bria Servoss: That's part of.
Jeremy Schumacher: I love the tattoo conversation too. Because I know the data from ials as a millennial over 80% of us have tattoos. So this idea that a client might probably judge you more. If you don't have tattoos, I ask my clients about their tattoos, not to take over the session but sometimes it's a connection point for us. Sometimes it's just really cool artwork and I want to know who their artist is like, That's just a very I would say normal human interaction.
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I don't know even the playing field. I'm not trying to show up as an expert who's going to tell you what to do. I'm a person who also has tattoos. Tell me about yours because I like tattoos.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, it's funny because my tattoos, I'm not sure if that's what it is. But I think some clients. Think I'm a lot younger than I am. if it comes up, I'm like look, you're 23, I'm 45. It might be different for you when we're talking, casually never as a point of contention or a point of process or anything, And they're the inevitably. It's this. and I gloss over it because I don't want to make it about me. But at the end of the day, I do go, what is it like? Is it the tattoos? Because in my generation, I guess I'm the younger Gen X 45 but there weren't as many of us with sleeves, and now Part of it's more.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I'm just part of everyone…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: who has tattoos, which is so many of
Jeremy Schumacher: A very punk of you back in the day to get the pools before,…
Bria Servoss: yeah. All right.
Jeremy Schumacher: it was cool to do it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Do you mind talking a little bit about the journey into private practice because I'm always curious, especially for therapist needs the
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: yeah, I mean For me, I'm a previous business owner so I've been in my history when I lived in Chicago while I was a hairstylist and musician. I was pretty poor I mean I wasn't poor as a single person. I was all right. But Jeremy, when I finally kind of grew out of going and partying and doing all the things that I did for fun because I had a baby I really wasn't making enough money because I was bringing part-time and My daughter's dad was working three jobs to make ends meet and we're okay, we were but we were in one bedroom. It was a sweet apartment love that. I was like my favorite but
00:30:00
Bria Servoss: I remember just being because I clean as part of a meditational thing. when I'm on the phone, it's back to that neuro divergence. I had no idea but I move, I'm always doing something to It's like right now me sitting here and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I would love to be moving around and talking because that's how my brain works. but,
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And said unfortunately, that's not always how it goes. But also, I clean. So I was cleaning. I was like, I need to do I should get paid for this and We kind of put our heads together and we started a cleaning company. It was just kind of like, do it. And after keen, I split several God 10 years ago now It's still going strong as an friendly, maid service. It's based in Chicago and they're doing great and so I got good and I realized This is not that hard owning a business is not as hard as everyone thinks it is. And then …
Jeremy Schumacher: Correct.
Bria Servoss: cut too many years later, I'm working for a salon again and I was like, I'm just gonna open my mountain place. So I opened an old my own salon suite and I Quit that because of covid. I was like I can't be in people's faces. They can't be in mind, that ended. But it It was fine. so I think the reason I got into private practice so quickly was I learned doing entrepreneur, just being an entrepreneur in my spirit I don't like to be Under anyone else's watch. Ever. Just not me.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I like to make my own rules, and I like to make my own schedule and that's how I thrive. And I need more probably than the average.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Person will possibly I think more people need more downtime than they even know. So I don't think. Work week is healthy, to be honest. Unfortunately, people have to do it and…
Jeremy Schumacher: No.
Bria Servoss: I know that it's like, my privilege that, I don't have to Do that now and I have a husband to, Basically does do that. And I am so grateful for him because it's allowed me to kind of Find my bearings doing this. It's involved. I did it at a Probably not the best time to do it in my life. my dad died in May, he got sick with a really aggressive cancer that he'd had. in March and I was super unexpected, like they had no clue and with two months later, he was dead to the day. It was really fast.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Meanwhile, I'm Trying to I'm still seeing clients when I can and I'm a mom of a 12 year old and I am a stepmom to a seven year old and I have a life and two dogs and two cats, and I don't live my parents.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: So I have to driving back and forth and my brother was from Colorado where he lives it was just it was a chaotic time to start a private practice, let's just say that, right? And Actively grieving I'm still grieving,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: and I think I mean that's a process and of itself and yet. I managed to do it. So if I can do it anyway, can do it. I'd say. that I decided to go private pay and I think that that has been interesting because I believe that we deserve to be Reimbursed, for the work we do. And I think there's a lot of messaging around that and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: that's a whole other topic. To get, but It's been an interesting process and I'll just kind of leave it there. I think for that unless you have questions.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: And part of the reason I worked for other people for so long was because I didn't think I could do the business side of things, I knew spreadsheets and tax forms and all that** didn't at all. Make sense. I joke that money as a concept doesn't make sense to my brain.
00:35:00
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I feel like I'm playing along with this whole concept but it's not that bad and I tell people I resigned from a place and then the person I was working for fired me because they were deeply offended that I was leaving. And it's like I opened my practice in a week and that's absolutely not how to do it in any way, shape, or form. But my ADHD brain with no business experience. No entrepreneurial experience, figured it out. Clients were served well, without missing a beat like it isn't this prohibitive thing.
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yes, there's finding space and rent, and
Jeremy Schumacher: All of that stuff that goes into it. We can talk about naming our practices because we joked before I hit record about that. But for people who don't understand some of it, there's a lot of tools and things. I like to advocate for it, especially your young therapist
Bria Servoss: Yeah, and I think you get a lot of that messaging from the supervisors who have yet to leave the clinic, I got some of that.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: My super who I respect and adorn, if they listen. Hey guys. because that there. I get the fear and also once you do it,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: It's not that bad. Have to have. the drive to do it, essentially like you have to want to do it and the rest kind of is, but I think, too. I really wanted to focus on the people. I wanted to work with right the tech people. rather than just having a clinic feed me, whoever kind of shows up and I had very little And maybe those people, wouldn't find the right fit in me because that's not necessarily the work that I do or maybe they want us very specific modality and I'm not working with that. And so practice makes so much sense for that. Because not to say that my elevator pitches is, really good right now. I don't know that's not me. I'm probably
Bria Servoss: I say more than I need to. I'm not as articulate when it comes to that sort of thing. But I mean, I got to basically make that decision of the population I want to work with, this is what I'm interested in. These are where my strengths lie and…
Jeremy Schumacher: The.
Bria Servoss: I think how do you know if you could work well with people, unless you get a chance to work that population, so, Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah. And serving clients who are better fit for us and also like that. Work-life balance, I don't take insurance, I make more money and work less hours than I ever have before. Not as a brag, I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but my work is a lot better because I'm more better rested. I'm have better resources. I'm practicing what I preach instead of just being self-care is important. Also haha, I'm burnt out all the time, seeing pretty clients a week,…
Bria Servoss: Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: it's different how I show up and I think clients pick up on that.
Bria Servoss: 100%, Yes. Yes. And I mean. Yeah, I mean we're not in it for the money even if private pay, it's not, the money. I mean I guess you could be I don't know what that looks like but I just want I'm
Jeremy Schumacher: I worked very briefly, the job I left with somebody who charged $250 a session and they have a couple of nice cars.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, I mean that. A couple. three cars. Yeah. I mean I don't have that desire. I just want more time and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, right.
Bria Servoss: one more time I'm feeling and also able to kind of, Yeah, because that self-care especially is neurodivergent people, especially with life coming up, especially with someone's dad dying or your dog dying or whoever you need to have that. I don't know how you do that with 30 clients in a week. and so,
Jeremy Schumacher: right, you're even just simple stuff, like a tire going flat on the way to a session, like Man, I remember just the doom and gloom of I'm missing out this much money and I'm stressed about that. And what my clients don't come back and cuz I'm late because my tire blew out and Not having the resources to just feel, To go and do therapy then With much love to everyone,…
Bria Servoss: but, Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: who's on the edge of burnout, like therapist.
Bria Servoss: No. Right? It's like and I think where people would be coming into. I think there are a lot of people going becoming therapist needs therapy. And there are a lot of therapist.
00:40:00
Jeremy Schumacher: And what?
Bria Servoss: The charge for what you feel, you need in order to live well and do the ethical work that you're tasked to do and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Right.
Bria Servoss: that whatever you're interests are and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: what you want to speak to
Bria Servoss: But yeah, so yeah I think it's the way to go.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: It's the future.
Jeremy Schumacher: Unless, maybe we'll ever figure out universal health care, the only First World country to not have it. Who knows?
Bria Servoss: Just, Yeah, keep positive. Stay positive.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Archipelago. Let's Talk.
Bria Servoss: You did it?
Jeremy Schumacher: Let's do a geography. I had to practice before we hit Record. Let's How did you decide on What's its meaning to you? And then let's make jokes about picking practice names that are hard to pronounce.
Bria Servoss: I like it. I picked it so I'm in my free time I write I do poetry.
Bria Servoss: I don't know why that hurts to say that out loud. It does though. and one of I just always like I love the word archipelago and I think it rolls off the tongue once how to say it. And it's yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And also, it's beautiful. it's like bells it's and the meaning behind it is really because it's a chain of islands. Essentially, and I think of humans as that we're kind of islands existentially, that's my kind of worldview as we're alone, but also everyone's alone. how are we really alone? If everyone's having a really similar human experience, so there's beauty there.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And I like the idea of just kind of reaching out to your fellow. Island, if you see someone suffering, be there if you want to be there. If it's the person you want to be there for, obviously boundaries, but I think that's kind of where I got that idea and I'd used archipelago in a poem that I'd written several years ago, and it just keeps cropping up that word for me and the meaning.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: And I think that life can be really lonely, but It doesn't have to be if we can kind of see the commonalities in each other and I mean it speaks to just I think too with couples work. I love working with couples like It was one of those things where people like they are either That's not for me.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I handle it. It's stressful and for me I'm excellent I'm like get me in there, it's something very satisfying about having a three voices multiple voices in the room, which happens with family. I don't work with families because I think that maybe that's just my fear but I think that's a whole other ball of wax but with couples, I think it's really interesting because It's really not about, I sit there and I'm your back, what I hear and I kind of count and I think that about what better illustration for that? Even like a try out of people.
Bria Servoss: Then islands, who are all trying to figure out how the other person is feeling and learn in a way that makes sense to that other person and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: just so that they feel more seen and less alone and that's everybody. I just think that's all humans really want is just to feel less alone and to feel seen and I think done I think it can be done.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I think that and I think people** and I think people, Cheat. And they do it for a reason and oftentimes And, it doesn't make it easy. It doesn't make it not painful, but I think there's always bridges. We can always erect bridges. I think it just comes down to see our partners? How do we see each other? And I feel really, really excited to be in that process with people. And even though I'm a licensed professional counselor, I'm not an Lmft mlpc for whatever reason that I feel like I'm in the right place in those moments where I'm like, okay, y'all are talking like that's happening and I love it. I love it so much.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I love individual work, too. A totally different reason. And in that case, it's two islands.
Jeremy Schumacher: I can get a glimpse into your writing skills because it's very poetic naming because again, how many practices be seen therapy or understanding something like I will say to young therapist. Needs.
00:45:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Because I was coming out of a coach with my coach volleyball and you just shortened everyone's So everybody has a one-syllable nickname because you just won't be able to shout something quickly. So I've been Jer for a lot of years.
Bria Servoss: Right.
Jeremy Schumacher: I mean, my friends family call me Jared, It's an easy short for Jeremy but it's starting my practice a week and I was like, I just need something that isn't taken. So here wellness with Jeremy.
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Let's go and so many people mispronounce it because they don't know,…
Bria Servoss: .
Jeremy Schumacher: short for Jeremy. And so it's just this, silly thing of comes up often. I was dang it. Why did I name it? That,
Bria Servoss: Wait? That's it. what is that? How does that? Sound.
Jeremy Schumacher: I've heard Jer a lot. Yeah. So we correct I've been people. Mispronounced Jeremy as Jeremy a lot. So I can sort of get that. It's not a name that I think is super hard,…
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: but I hold grace for people who I,…
Bria Servoss: Yes. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: I got your last name wrong, which is the thing I do normally and Archipelago was a word, I had to practice several times, so English doesn't set you up to read, Phonetically very well.
Bria Servoss: No, before my dad died, It was funny because I'd settled on archipelago and archipelago counseling. And I remember my dad, he was one of the most magical kind, lovely. just if you want to feel scene, go talk to talk to my dad. He was an artist. He's amazing. And one of it was so out of character, but he was like, because he was sick at this point, and I remember him being like, You need to change it. no one's.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: You should do it. That's something you need to do something different which is so unlike them normally he'd be like I see. That's great,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: like that. I think it's interesting, it's unique, But he was very kind of like no. and I Laughed. I was like, well. Keeping it.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: It's too late.
Jeremy Schumacher: you have part of it right now and your website and I think a,…
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: the websites coded neurodivergent, I'm sure my brain picked up on that reading through it. But just kind of loving this whole idea. And I think there's such rich metaphor then for clients to grasp on pretty easily and, you can draw some philosophy into it. I love that stuff. Naming your business is hard, too.
Bria Servoss: It's way harder than I thought it would be so echo your sentiment.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: 100. Yes, that's true. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Final thing I want to talk about today we could go on and on for a long time I'm sure.
Bria Servoss: Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: But what does self-care look like? What's cultivating? Joy you talked about kind of getting through that chaotic time of your life of opening your practice where you're at today, right now, what is it kind of look like for how you take care of yourself while holding space for other people?
Bria Servoss: You yeah. me and my therapist. Needs therapy…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: not therapist.
Bria Servoss: myself cry, or I'm gonna let myself just feel And be and what is, maybe right and I think so. I think that's that as well as being in nature is huge, just being in the world that is not filled with concrete and buildings and ideally other humans…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: because I think we need that space kind of to do that to be I think time with …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yes. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Unabashed focused time. with people that I love, is self. Because It just is like I don't know,…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: we just got ticket to ride this board game. about it at all.
Jeremy Schumacher: It's about trains. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Right Trying to supreme game and yeah but it's so fun to play. I love it and I love all those zero games anyway but that game is really easy to play with both my kiddo and my step kiddo. And so we say it just having stuff where there's no screens Where it's just. Tactile is so important for me and so it's also connective so yeah I'd say that and then moving my body, I gotta move my body. Like I said earlier,…
00:50:00
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I'm Diddling around and doing things anyway. But with intention, going walking and…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: moving, and strengthening and doing like that breathing.
Bria Servoss: so yeah, that's my
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Yeah, I relate deeply to a lot of that one as a therapist needs.
Bria Servoss: yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Therapy in there. But it is that resting of your nervous system and kind of reset that we don't get elsewhere in modern society.
Bria Servoss: Yes, It's too much input. Absolutely, it's funny too…
Jeremy Schumacher: No. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: because I think about all the input that I've had over the years and even as I was as a young teen, when I started doing music and I fronted a band and running into old friends from way back when and then them finding out that I actually had deep nerd anxiety about being on stage in front of people. And I mean, we had fairly big audiences for what it was worth back then. and I was
Bria Servoss: Losing my mind before it was deeply my whole nervous system was completely screwed up and they're really and I'm like, I am an expert masker at the time I …
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: the last person to talk to, I still hadn't been diagnosed with ADHD but I said, everything back it falls into place. Once you get something that resonates for you a diagnosis, if that's what it is, I've mixed feelings, but I think when they're accurate it, they're so transformative. And that, really just made me go. this is why I drank so much in my 20s to the noise to quiet, all of that input. walking underneath the El and it would go over and everyone acted like it was whatever. And for me It was just like I felt like, my whole body was on fire, and it was just this great physical nervous system. And this sounds a little weird, but I'd start screaming when it went over because nobody could hear me screaming. And it would just release all of that energy because it was just like,
Bria Servoss: It was just too much, and looking back in my 40s on my 20s and a little bit of my 30s I was like this is why I numbed out doing different things like alcohol, those things. It was so that I could calm a nervous system. I had very little control over and I was always surrounded by people and cars. and stuff and noise and Now, it's like I realize I need the exact opposite.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I'm not music too.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Same there too, just How I managed to do all of that stuff with all that loud. the loud punk bands and just all of the rock, just all the things, I'm kind of flummoxed at this.
Jeremy Schumacher: You mentioned to being in doing music with jazz and jazz for me as one of those if I'm Okay, stimulated. I can really vibe with it and if I'm overstimulated it's like grading. And just jazz it much that doesn't change. It's that my stimulation level changes. And therefore, my response can look wildly different. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: Absolutely. Yeah. I think there's everybody uses kind of these one size fits all just appears on I don't listen to this or I can only handle going to, bars that are like this and it's more about how are we feeling? And our bodies in that.
Jeremy Schumacher: Right.
Bria Servoss: And we'd like to see kind of maybe that's when you need to remove yourself, maybe it has nothing. It's just a matter of where you are nervous system wise I think what
Jeremy Schumacher: And I listened to a lot of metal. So I love the metalheads who are also neurodivergent because that double kick just stresses other people out but calms me right down. Yeah.
Bria Servoss: I mean I don't know that there's anything better than a double kick, that's incredible. Yeah, for sure.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yes, I have a random question. It'll make sense for an episode that has an aired yet. But do you have any bird tattoos?
Bria Servoss: Yeah. yeah. Yes. Yes.
Jeremy Schumacher: I'm gonna start asking everybody in the podcast because I went to a retreat with a bunch of non-theistic pagans, and it was really lovely. But we discovered how many of us have neurodivergence and how many of us have bird tattoos because I think snow divergent folks are Being in nature because it stimulating and calming for us. So it was a really high correlation of those of us who are neurodivergent and had bird tattoo. So that's my
00:55:00
Bria Servoss: That's wild.
Jeremy Schumacher: yeah.
Bria Servoss: Yeah, I have one here here.
Bria Servoss: in fact, It was funny because I was like I want to get this, I want to get a crow and honor my dad really loved crows and I was like, I do I need another bird. That's so many birds.
Bria Servoss: That's a funny. I look forward to hearing that really quick. Yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: My very informal research. I'm conducting about the overlap between neurodivergence and bird tattoos, but there's a correlation. I'm pretty confident. Bria, this has been awesome to get to know you and…
Bria Servoss: That's pretty funny.
Jeremy Schumacher: learn from you and connect. If people want to learn more about your work, if they want to work with you, where do they go? How do they find you?
Bria Servoss: Thank Jeremy. Yeah, I am at dash LLC. .Com it's a long one. I get it. You can find me kind…
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah.
Bria Servoss: if you just Google search my name, Bria Servoss, LPC But yeah.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah. Cool,…
Bria Servoss: Thats that.
Jeremy Schumacher: and We'll have shell links to that stuff. We'll have the links in the show notes for people to find that stuff more easily.
Bria Servoss: It's been so great talking with you. This is fun.
Jeremy Schumacher: Yeah, yeah, thanks for coming on and to all our wonderful listeners. Thanks for taking the time to tune in. We'll be back next week with another new episode. Take care, everyone.
Meeting ended after 00:56:56 👋
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