You Can't Become A Migrant Without A fight. With Robynne Jeisman, C.E.O of Turntable

In this episode you'll hear Robynne's definition of home, her keys to navigating a new environment, why the power of choice is crucial to every migrant, understanding trafficking and exploitation, and what it takes to survive the journey of migration.

Robynne, an Australian immigrant, shares her journey from Adelaide to San Francisco. She discusses the challenges of migration, the importance of community, and her work in establishing a nonprofit focused on anti-trafficking and housing solutions for vulnerable youth in the USA. The conversation highlights the resilience of migrants, the power of choice, and the significance of cultural connections through food and community engagement.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Journey of Migration
01:09 From Australia to America: A Personal Story
03:58 The Challenges of Migration and Finding Home
10:00 The Power of Choice in Migration
12:07 Settling in America: Discovering a New Home
13:07 Cultural Adaptation and Community Building
15:43 Navigating Cultural Differences and Othering
20:56 The Importance of Food and Cultural Connection
29:03 Establishing a Nonprofit: Turntable's Mission
34:41 The Impact of Turntable and Community Engagement
39:14 Understanding Trafficking and Exploitation
46:28 Empowering Others and Taking Action

https://www.instagram.com/theplaces_wecallhome

Transcript

0:07

Welcome to the Places We Call Home podcast, where we celebrate the courage, tenacity, and resilience of migrants who have moved from their country of origin to make a new home in America. I do believe it was God that said, you choose. And then I was like, I'm going to America. It's not like you get your clipper card, get on the bus and off you go, and you get to your destination. It feels like you've got to fight for it. And Vegemite is usually best with hot toast, with some butter. That can sort me out in a day. I was still so caught up in the adventure. It wasn't until later on that I went, I have been brave every day. Every day I got out of bed, I've been brave. Hello listeners. Welcome to another episode of the Places We Call Home podcast. I'm Yolanda Mishima, and on today's episode, I have a woman who has very easily and quickly become a pretty good friend of mine, and she has been an answer to prayer. Her name is Robin. So thank you very much for making the time to be here and to share in your life. What I really want to do is to help our listeners to get to know you. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Start with where you were born, where you grew up, and what brought you here to the US. Thanks for having me today. It's so great to be here. I was born in Adelaide, South Australia, in the Southern Hemisphere, and at the age of 25 I moved to Melbourne, Australia, and that's really where a lot of my non profit work started. I'd already started in community based work in high school, and I was a youth pastor, and then I moved to Melbourne. I ended up being there for about 11 years. Then I moved to San Francisco, which is where I currently call home, but I kind of have two homes. So I love the name of this podcast, The Places We Call Home, because I'm all about home is where your heart is, home is where your stuff is, and our place can be as wonderful as it is, but the people in that place is really what brings it to life. So let's go back to Melbourne for a little bit. I've never been. What's Melbourne Life? It is It's able to claim the most livable city in the world for seven years and then I think somewhere in Austria took it for a bit and I think Melbourne's making its claim back. Being from someone that loves hot weather, Melbourne tries to have summer, but it's typically very temperate. It does rain a lot and quite cold and windy. So those people that think Australia is just hot summer beaches all the time, it's not true. But Melbourne then loves hot weather. Sport art museums. Okay. Very cosmopolitan. Drive. Very cosmopolitan. There's this big, beautiful Yarra River going right through the city. Every, every city in Australia has a river going through it, which is Oh, really? Is a fun fact for you. Oh, I love being near the water and that there's a lot of, because of the rivers, it's more accessible to get that peaceful life in my spare time. I just enjoy hiking farmers markets. I love the food. The food is so diverse and we're so close to Southeast Asia we get very spoiled with Southeast Asian food. But there is over 200 different cultures in Melbourne so the food is representative of that too. Oh wow, you're making it sound a little bit like Being in London, the whole culture I've never been in London, so now I want to go there too. And again, the people are pretty great and they're laid back and very focused at the same time. Is it a very welcoming place, do you think, abs? I do. I do think that. Okay, so then from Melbourne over to San Francisco, over to the us I dunno, has it always been San Francisco? Yeah, it's always been San Francisco. Okay, so what drew you here? your expression. The expression on my face, for those that can't see, is because when I give that answer, everyone thinks I came here because I was homeless, but you can't become a migrant. And, I mean, maybe, I don't know. But I just, I know that for me, I was already participating in anti trafficking work, working with juvenile justice and foster care kids, and providing a housing. Solutions for those young people. I'm a Christian, I follow Jesus, and I know sometimes even that word can be a trigger for some people, but for me, the expression of my Christian faith is by engaging in justice. I think Jesus is all about that, and for me, that's my gold star. When, as I've got older and connected with my trauma story, I have realised that the things and the people and the opportunities that were there for me to help me heal and grow, even when I didn't know that I had a trauma story, I look back at my little sister self, and I'm grateful for all those things and people that were there for me, and I want to do that for others. The why San Francisco question it's a big one and it's we probably don't even have enough time to do that But the quick version is that I knew it was the US And since I was 16, there was that draw to the US or the UK And in my 30s, I started to realize I need to do this nagging thought or this When you say this, you mean going over to the U. S.? This feeling of I don't know, I didn't know what this was. It was that adventurous spirit and that exploration. It's funny because you asked me about the weather or what is it like in Melbourne. I was like, I can't go to England, I'm sick of these cold winters, I'm choosing America. And the funny thing is, San Francisco is so cold and foggy, so it feels quite humorous. So there was a sense of exploration, so I just got on a plane and went to the US, and I went to some connections in Boston and Chicago and New York. San Francisco, the Grand Canyon, were my fun parts of the trip, but God grabbed me and it was a similar way to how I moved to Melbourne that I was able to draw on those experiences of ah, I've had this happen before and it worked out really well and I felt like a building block. It doesn't mean I moved to San Francisco super fast, but the process of exploration Boston are still strong. The connections in New York that helped make it possible. It's like this big knitting needle or this big thread from Adelaide, Melbourne, New York, and San Francisco. Who would think? And you're talking about people. People and my story, but who would think all of those places could thread and be knitted together for a storyline, but. That's part of humans, I think. So you moved from Melbourne, explored New York and these other places that you just mentioned. They all added something to you and you discovered that this is the place that, where you wanted to do the stuff that you know to do. The answer is yes. If it's a yes, no question, the answer is yes. But the unpacking all of that is saying yes. stepping out, realizing people know people and being grateful when there is a no or a closed door because it helps you move forward. If you're walking down a hallway and there's 10 doors either side and you don't know which one to tap on, you tap on one and if it opens, walk through it. But if it doesn't walk back out again and keep finding the right path. I was able to reflect back to youth camps when I was a teenager, realizing that some of those girls and guys on those programs, they started dreams alongside my dream starting. And then they start your colleagues that you worked alongside. They're kids. We're all kids. We're all from Adelaide. We're starting hip hop dance programs and life happens alongside our own individual story. And so when I'm talking about those threads and those cities, They're really through friendships and sharing your dreams boldly and sending an email to five or ten people and going, I'm going to go to America. And all of a sudden people are like, that's not your average vacation and they're right. It wasn't a vacation. It was fun and restful, but it was also dream casting, vision planning. You realize, wow. People want to be part of that. I'm saying all this because of the beauty of hindsight that wow That lady in brooklyn, new york. I only know her because of Kelly from adelaide and everything in between now i'm spending 25 30 40 years in there. So that's why it's sounding somewhat vague So you left melbourne. You didn't quite have a plan You were just going to come and see what happens, is that? And yes, I didn't move at that time. That was a trip. I want to go back to the U. S. and the U. K. because it is an important part of my story. It's the power of choice. And we are very privileged when we have choice. Yes. And in my current work, I try to empower my young people to have as many choices as they can. And when you say you're young people, You're talking about the younger people that you help in anti trafficking and so on. Children, youth and young adults I work with. But all people, it's a privilege if we have a choice. And we give our, I think it's helpful, we give our toddlers a choice of do you want toast with peanut butter or would you like cereal? And that's a privilege. age appropriate, but as we grow, if we can have choice and empower each other in that way, it's very special. For me, I really did get the choice of either the US or the UK. I was acting like I was going to get it wrong and I was going to get hit by lightning if I made the wrong choice. And one day, as I was thinking about it, I do believe it was God that said, you want to serve me wherever you go. They're all my people. You choose. Oh. You can't get it wrong. And then I was like, I'm going to America. Nothing wrong with the UK. I know that it would have been great regardless, but it was this power of choice. I booked a trip. I didn't pack up my life. It took me four years to finally move to the U. S. Oh, I see. Immigration is no joke. You've got to figure that out. I was also above 31. I wasn't able to do like a two year work trip. So I had to consider and weigh up all the possibilities of how was I going to earn, eat and sleep and earn a wage. That was a big thing in itself, but I did just go for five weeks and on face value, yes, it looked like a vacation, but in my heart, there was a purpose to it. So it was very open and The beauty of that was, I just wrote lots of notes and saw who I would meet and watched that sense of wonder. Kind of a mapping it out, an excursion. That's a really clever way of doing it. In the missionary world, they would call it a survey trip or a vision trip. I didn't worry about any of that. I just, you just went. So now that you're here, how long have you been here? I've been here for seven years. seven years continually or on and off? Do you get a chance to go back home? What does that look like? I would say it's continually, but there have been a couple of stints where I've gone back to Australia for three or six months and that's just been part of the journey. But it's always been purpose to renew my visa. Reconnect and stay connected to culture. I feel like I have a big support base back in Australia. COVID got in the way for a bit. I, that made that difficult to go back. So the intention is to keep going back regularly. I feel like it's my steady footing and my groundedness comes from both. The U. S. and Australia. Do you also see the U. S. as home then, in a way? I do now. You do now? That's a recent discovery in the last six months. So you live here now, you do see it as home. What are the things about the U. S. that you love? What have you fallen in love with? I don't know if I've fallen in love with anything to be here, to be honest. So what, then what keeps you here? Is it purely the love of the work? My purpose? Yeah. I'll be quite honest. America is a very hard country to live in. All right. But I do think the world has got harder. So my lens is different. I think because the first three or four years of being here pre pandemic was the hardest years. In my opinion of your life or just the hardest years of living here? The hardest years of my American life. And then the world got harder from, I, I don't know if everyone feels that way, but I certainly feel like it has. But because I've got community here, I experience it different. So it's very interesting that what community does for me, even my interpretation of the places we call home, like place. Can be in our heart, place can be with people and place can be a physical city or county. I think for me, as far as what I've fallen in love with, like having a global perspective, it changes you. So there's wonderful things about America. There's wonderful things about Australia. There's annoying things about every culture and in the mix of it all, I American culture has sharpened me, has grown me and taught me things and I get to still be the girl from Australia at the same time and making sure that joy continues to bubble over and bless this part of the world at the same time. And if you know an Australian, we're typically More like outgoing and everybody, everybody loves the Nazis, but. Extroverted, fun loving, that's what I've experienced from all the Australians that I've met. Generally speaking. Generally, if we can generalise. But certainly from all of the many Australians that I have met, certainly back home, every single one of them have been extroverted, fun loving and so on. But it sounds like you have experience. Some challenges to put it mildly in this particular culture, the American culture, settling down, trying to live out your purpose, your God given purpose. What are some of those challenges that maybe are particular to this culture? I think having unsteady ground. What do you mean? And what I mean by that is when you don't have permanent residency, the realities of migrating, you are navigating a lot of new things all at once and culture shock can really throw you off. One of my favorite words I've learned since living here is discombobulated. Oh, yeah, I love that word. Discombobulated, but it's so descriptive. I'm fortunate Australia and America have a really good trade agreement. It's typically fairly good for an Australian if they can fulfill it. qualify and get approved for specific visas. It's pretty good, but it still feels like unsteady ground. I don't take a day for granted being here. I think that is a shared experience of anyone that doesn't have permanent residency somewhere, regardless of the reason why you're trying to move to another country. We have an identity and a security. in our country. Yes. Of origin. I'm not coming from a war torn country. I'm not coming with a hopeful reception, but that, that, that can be your experience too. You can have your visa in your passport and still not be let through border control. And I, that surprised me that that is even a possibility, but all those sorts of things, it feels like you've got to fight for it rather than. It's not like you get your Clipper card, get on the bus, and off you go, and you get to your destination. That's a struggle. I'm sure you'll relate to this too. It feels like we both speak English, but we don't speak the same language. I describe Australians and Americans a bit like an Android and an Apple and an iPhone. We look like we serve the same purpose. Have a different internal hard drive and so the Assumption that we are all androids or all iPhones. Some people say don't forget you're in another country And I'm very aware. It's the being misunderstood or we're such a fast paced society There's not as much time offered, but that's just that takes time to feel at home in those relationships So are you saying, in a way, that you feel othered? Oh, yeah. How, how does that Not intentionally. It's not, I'm not offended or hurt by it, but But in what way do you think you're othered? I very rarely feel intentionally othered. And even in those moments, it's packaged more in a fun way or this and that. But if I was given a choice, I'd prefer it didn't happen. For example, in relation to your accent, Yeah. The way you sound. Yeah. Which to me is, as I said to you before, it's very melodious. I like it. Obviously. So I'm having a difficult time imagining someone other than you because you're a white woman from Australia. It's a country that is doing pretty okay, you know, it's not mortal, as you said. It's interesting just to hear how I think it's cumulative. Okay. And it depends on the day. My accent changes now, and I try and people don't lose it. Were you trying to sound more American? I'm not trying to, but you just get sick of repeating yourself. So instead of saying. Sparkling water or sparkling water. Now, I don't like the second one, but if I need a drink, I change it to club soda these days. In the grand scheme of things, that version of othering is someone's heart intent to connect, I think. And I don't want to interlay with that point much more, but I think it's cumulative when You don't feel understood. I love it when someone truly doesn't understand and they're just saying, could you say that a different way? That has felt so inclusive and loving in those ways. Because they're clearly trying to connect with you. And that's the heart. The important thing is we understand someone's heart and we give people the benefit of the doubt. Difficulties come in a bunch of different ways. And I think you don't realize how much food can comfort you in different times. All of those early day experiences now I also moved 10 days before a large political impact and change. All those years ago, leave that one alone, but for me, it felt like I moved to an America that I wasn't prepared for. Teamwork, connections, immigration changes within six months make friends, they leave, not realizing San Francisco is a very transient city. Yes, it is. Trying to find your tribe. This is the thing that I wanted to talk to you about. How did you go about that? Because that helps you to feel settled. That helps me, let me speak for myself, to find friends that I can call on. Thank you. People who know you, not just your name. People you can open up to and share your heart. People you can cry in front of and who will comfort you. How did you go about, how are you going about creating that? What are the tools that you are able to use or what's helping you? Well, I make friends easily, but I think everyone is almost on equal playing fields at the beginning. And you don't know who is the really great person, but they're just too busy and overcommitted. Or the other person that seems good and you're like, we don't really connect after all. So you're trying all those things, plus navigating your way around. These days, if one of those changes or revelations come, it doesn't rock me. I don't have a green card or a, I don't have a green card. I don't have a permanent residency yet, but my grounding emotionally, mentally, relationally is a lot more steadfast now. So even a lot of the friendships who are like my tribe, they're not the people I knew at the beginning. But it is wonderful to now have some seven year friendships from, it's a handful of people who I knew at the beginning in those early years and they're still very, very good friends. But the beauty of life is. Bring life brings you good people. My church is a wonderful way. That's how we met. It's a wonderful Community, but it's not my everything it's not the only way that my friend my friendships are connected through the community through work some of the Australian community so and I'm Prioritizing being a friend to myself as well. I'm pretty good at Giving everything to everyone else and worrying about myself later, but I now add myself on the top five list for self care, for your wellbeing. Mental, I think it's important we learn how to be a friend to ourselves. If we don't do that, then we just pour out and out. Now, how do we give a good version of ourselves to others if we don't even spend time getting to know ourselves? That is so true. That is so true. Now, do you think that's even more important when you are an expat, a migrant? I think it's really important for every human being. I think it's amplified when you're an expat. There's margin you need to create. Because our other world, our other country doesn't stop living either. But I remember a few years ago I had to challenge myself. I was trying to manage both of my lives. And I was doing neither well. And I was getting tired. I don't know why I had this revelation, but I went, I'm going to need to lean more into my local relationships if I want to thrive here. It's like when you take a, I don't know, I've never done paragliding or anything, but when you jump, it's like, and there's this part where the wind catches on. It was like, are you ready? It's got to change. And it did change, but it changed for the good. And I watched friendships. become richer But it did require a lot of courage. And so I think the margin that I talk about, we need more margin in our life. And I needed a margin for different reasons when I first lived here to what I need now. I used to have what I'd call a low stimulus day. And I would stay home, I didn't want to hear one American accent. I needed my food and it was my nourishment to myself. I only needed to do that for about three months. That was just a cross cultural adaptation. Now I need margin in a different way because work life requires different things from me. Everyone will know their version of what that means. Now there was something that you said there quite fleeting, you needed your food, but you're talking about food from back home. In order to stay well, do you feel there's a need to dip into your culture? Or are you you know what, I'm away from Australia. I can let it go. What is that like? It's, I think it was not amplified back then because I was still pretty fresh. Now I like, Actually, one of the things I have fallen in love with is Mexican food and Peruvian food. I didn't even know the meaning of Peruvian food until I moved here. And there's all this, like I talk about Southeast Asian food in Australia. There's all this Central South American food available to us here that is fresh and it's delicious and so that's the beauty of travel where I go back to Australia now and I'm like good try, that's not real Mexican, I'll wait, but I'll have fish and chips or I'll have a chicken parmigiana. So for those of you that don't know about Vegemite. Oh my gosh. Vegemite. Vegemite is legendary, isn't it? It is. But are you a pro mite, Marmite or Mite? I love it. I love it. I'm Aite fan. Oh, she's Marmite. Okay. I'm a Marmite fan. We forgive her I'm a Bri. We love Marmite. So it's a bit like soccer teams. It's just what's your preference and which one? I don't like the others. I'm a pure Vegemite girl. And Vegemite is this salty black spread that you put on with a, usually best with hot toast with some butter and then you put a little bit of Vegemite. That can sort me out in a day. And we have been saying you're a happy little Vegemite and it does, it hits the spot and I don't need it all the time, but every now and then I do. And usually when we grew up with it on our sandwiches instead of a. We have cinnamon roll, we have cheese and Vegemite scrawls, and we'll put it on as much as we can. But being in America, it does help. It's so interesting. It is, because it's something that's typical. If there's any Australians listening, they might only understand this if they live outside of Australia, but there's those certain things that you don't realise you need. Even when the mail comes and someone has sent me something from Australia and I see the little Australia Post logo It will turn me into a nine year old kid at Christmas And it's just, it calls me home from the other place and as it's getting hot here It's getting cold there And I know it's, I'm privileged and yet privilege does not come without the sacrifice and the journey and I don't forget it and I can't imagine what it's like to come to another country for our brothers and sisters that have little money, little support, or had to flee. I built a life here. I absolutely built a life here. I thought I knew people and I realised a few years in, I actually didn't know anyone here. I knew nice people, but no I, sorry, I met nice people who were willing to say yes and they liked me and we, we've worked it out. But I realised when people said I was so brave, I was still so caught up in the adventure and the feeling of calling a purpose of how to make this happen. It wasn't until later on that I went, I have been brave every day. Every day I go down to bed, I'm being brave. Wow. That is extraordinary. I still think I'm a little bit like that now. You're, but you are though. So that brings us, let's talk about what you actually do now. You've touched on it already. You, you said that you work in anti-trafficking. Mm-hmm Tell us what you do. Okay. I run a nonprofit called Turntable. And it's a California 501c3, and I set that up here in San Francisco for the whole Bay Area. And we focus on response and prevention of trafficking, providing houses and homes for young people experiencing trafficking or homelessness, or coming out of the justice system. Those three, uh, I'm going to call them names, they feel like big ticket items. And they are. Many people ask me, why didn't you just pick one? That's a lot, Robyn. In my 25 years of experience, they're intersected. And I have thought about just focusing on one and very quickly I'm like trying to simplify my mission statement or maybe I'm just I don't always have to do all of this big hard stuff, but they're all intersected. I want all of it to be reduced, or reduced. I don't want anyone to just, oh, just pick one out of the three. I don't want anyone to be homeless. I don't want anyone to be trafficked or exploited. And I don't want people in juvenile hall. So I created a, it's intentionally a therapeutic framework. And I'm hesitant to use the word therapeutic at times because it typically is connected to a specific amount of licensing or funding requirements. And that's all important as well. But I really do believe that healthy, functional relationships and life is just good for the heart. It is, absolutely. I was going to say, it's like when we had a day at the beach, a day by the river, with the trees and the water flowing and the butterflies, you think, I'm painting that picture deliberately like that. Get in touch with your body listeners as you hear that or we put that screen savers and all that with our phones and all of that to draw us to those places and that's what's in my heart and mind for the young people and So what we do is I've set up a range of housing styles because different youth need different things now We are we are new Someone called me small but mighty the other day and I like that And Because we launched in the pandemic. I started 10 years ago and I tell you, you know, it took three or four years to come. The vision started years before that, but it was the stepping out of that trip. I was already doing juvenile justice housing at the time with child protection, and then I've moved into anti trafficking work. When people were asking me what I did, everyone was like, we need that here. We need, we need that here. Would you come? It was always like, I'm coming with an exploration and adventure mindset, but in the end, the locals, the Americans, started asking me, would I come? Here I am now, the housing model that was created in Melbourne. It's like a live in mentor, lead, roommate type model. No one seems to know who invented this model, which I kind of like. But it is alive and well still to this day. We have set up our first house. We're in the beginning phases of that, but that, that's taken seven years. That's a huge triumph. It is huge. That is absolutely massive to have come from Australia. You know just exploring to be wanted to have your skills Recognize the value that you're bringing and to be honest. I'm kind of really surprised that that didn't already exist here There's versions of it and I had to check myself at the door when people be like, oh that sounds like this Oh, that's like that inside And then that was part of my journey was Well, tell me what you understand. What do you understand that to be? And then that became a pivot for people to learn about the vision of what we do. So our phase two housing is independent living, where a young person doesn't need the live in mentor, but they still need case management and support alongside. So all of our housing comes with case management. And it is a extremely small team of two at this point. Oh my goodness. And I'm one of them. So, being the visionary, I'm trying to lead and empower and equip others that want to come alongside. We have way more demand than we can respond to at this point. Right. Yes. We're favour and landlords and others are wanting to help. Us to work with them, which requires us to have like private arrangements, um, to offer these options. But we, but I am creating options with these landlords for housing that didn't exist for young people. See, this is why I really wanted you to go through that explanation to unfold all that you're doing and the impact that it's having here, because bravery is not enough of a, of a description. Bravery doesn't really cover at all who you are and what you're doing and what you hold inside and to pour yourself into it completely, a hundred percent every single day. That's why, you know, I wholeheartedly agreed with you when you said, I think I'm brave every day. You really are. You really, that's a huge mission, and it's a huge accomplishment, it's a huge task, and you have to be so courageous. It's mind bending. And listeners, if you think that, um, oh we're overreacting it, you try going off to Australia and setting something like that up. You can want to do it, but you have got, I do believe you've got to physically be there. There is something about the physicality of being there. And part of the reason why turntable has its name is like when a DJ has turntables, you've got two turntables. And I like to dance. One of the best things is when the DJ changed the song, and you are still dancing like you were the first song. And you're like, Hang on a minute, we were dancing to Whitney Houston, and now we're dancing to Prince. Oh my goodness. That for me is your one turntable, and I'm the other turntable. Right. And your story intersects with my story. Yes. And a new sound comes as a result of that. When two people, now it can be two negative experiences as much as two positive and the world is forever changed as a result, but I'm going to focus on the light and the positive impact that we can have with another person when we come side by side is really important. So our slogan is our new sound because my declaration for this part of the world is that the world will be different as a result. We help our kids to make, realise the truth within themselves. And then, when we come to the table, uh, food is another language. Music and food are languages. We don't even have to speak the same, um, tongue language. When we come to each other in the table, we don't turn away from each other. We come to the table and we turn in, and lives are transformed over food. You can even be, kind of, think about, you're having a fight with someone, but you're still eating dinner. Now, someone might go and eat in front of the television. But the brave, courageous thing is to stay in community with that other person. Many of our kids have never eaten at a dinner table before, and so that can be really confronting for them. And learning how to converse and look each other in the eye. And, um, I've had youth that can't tie their own shoelaces, don't know how to use a knife and fork, but turntable is big on what I think we've taken for granted as basics. I was going to say basic, yes. And so, um, in the Bible, Jesus was challenging people towards integrity and inclusiveness, and he turned the tables over in the, in the temple. I do like to challenge the systems and the status quo. There's a lot of systemic things that it just feels like my youth actually think they're stupid. They think they are undeserving of success and it does feel like there's specific systems that are set up for people to just fail. And, and I've, I think why I can stand in the gap and go, come on, let's do this, is I've experienced that. No matter who we are, we've experienced one or two of them, if not all. But I wonder if it helps as well that you are from Australia. Interacting with these kids, you know what it's like to, to feel othered. You and I were talking earlier about the fact that when you're dealing with somebody who's been trafficked and you're saying to them, Oh, you know, this is not our country. These are the rules I'm, I'm letting you share so much about the work you do, because first of all, it's a huge service. And as a mom of a young child, I have to say, thank you. Thank you. I'm so grateful. So many of our listeners, parents with kids. I'm going to be so grateful. Thank you. Because you interacting with some of these kids and being able to teach them as basic as it may seem and sound to tie their laces, to use a knife and fork. It's a route to so much more. It's for them to be able to merge into society, to see themselves differently and having ambition and wanting and desiring to be so much more and to add value to society. You talk about trafficking and I'm particularly intrigued because I know that so many people come to the U. S. for so many different reasons. Love is often a reason. One of my previous guests came over and ended up in a situation where she was basically working for this person who professed to love her and who brought her over from Brazil. Basically took her passport and And given him the money, is that the same thing as having been trafficked, but through the guise of love? So without being an attorney or a detective, it depends on the intention originally. It's kind of like the difference between murder and manslaughter when you make those decisions. Love can happen and people can have impure motives. We often don't get to interview those people at where we were at the beginning in that mindset. And it's very very hard to get concrete outcomes and assessment with all the trafficking and exploitation unless it's the big ticket stuff. Now trafficking for starters is a big overarching umbrella term for some smaller sub points. So we have human trafficking, drug trafficking, labour trafficking, sex trafficking, organ trafficking. Mm hmm. There may be others, but they're the ones I'm aware of. Sometimes it's interwoven, but to that example from your previous guest, it can start like nice and then the person decides, Oh, I've got, you know, life is changed. Life is happening along that timeline. I don't know how quickly, but you could not have trafficked them here and then they become trafficked when they get here. The definition of trafficking is, I suppose, about the, what your point A look like in contrast to point B. Um, yeah, some people are literally trafficked. from another country. My experiences in this work has changed and I've sharpened my understanding because Australia does not have any bordering countries. It's all water. So trafficking looks very different here with Mexico and Canada. Yeah, I think there's, I think it's important to outline the difference between exploitation and trafficking. Okay. And that's a good point. And that exploitation doesn't get talked about much, because we're trying to bust open the big one and promote that, and that's important, but it can leave people feeling very helpless. We can all be part of the solution. It's all different, it will look different depending on if something's triggering your trauma story, or if you have lots of money, or not, or our sphere of influence, but I do believe we can all be Being a village, not turning our eyes away or doing what we can for our children, that's playing a part. Helping our kids have language to be empowered, that's part of it too. And, um, I know I found myself in some situations I wish would never happen and the times people said no or turned a blind eye is such a, the experience played out very differently to the times people said, I'll go with you. Oh, I'll sit in the car, or I'll deliver that piece of mail, or I'll this or that. Knowing you're not alone is huge as well. So exploitation is kind of, if you think of it like a trajectory. Everyone that's been trafficked was exploited at some point. Right, yeah. And trafficking is exploitation. Yes. But not everyone being exploited is trafficked. I understand. I think we minimise, just like your previous guest. If someone's married and being exploited, we like to think, Oh, that's okay, that's just their marriage on my mind business. But there are people, men and women, men are victims as much as women at times. Every human has the ability to exploit or lord their power over another human being. A good example of why it's so hard though, um, there's not many domestic violence shelters for fathers with children. That's just something to think about and know. But for, so for trafficking for me, see a wide range, wide range of, wide variety, yeah. Um, of different stories. I participate in response and prevention of exploitation and trafficking. And that's part of the language why I'm like, that's the long, the long way around things. But. If I can help someone minimize their exploitation risks and never be trafficked, great. I'd prefer to put my energy in that, but I will help use my crisis response work. Okay. Thank you. Let's say we have a listener who's been brought over to the US by a guy they fell in love with back at home. Now that they are here in the country, they, they no longer have access to their families back home. They don't have any friends. They kept in the house all the time. The only time they really get out is to Go and work and give the money to the person who brought them over here. That's exploitation. Right? How does that, how does that person get in touch with somebody like you? Or if somebody else knows that's happening to the neighbour down the road, they suspect that that neighbour down the road is being exploited, how do they get in touch with you? I think the best way is to Call the National Human Trafficking hotline. It's 24 7. You can communicate in English and Spanish. And that number is 888 373 7888. You can SMS. The National Human Trafficking Hotline may not be the immediate response, but it's a, it's a quick and easy first stop. As long as your concern is legitimate and your motive is pure, you're not wasting anyone's time. Because if that was all you could do and get your hands on, that's a valuable start. I have had some people make a simple phone call based off of a I feel like something's wrong. Trust that voice. Right. Don't talk yourself out of it. In our scientific world, we are taught to just like mind your business or talk yourself out of it. Don't be so emotional. I have seen people's lives be changed in other countries. I've been able to help coordinate some rescues from the other side of the world based off of someone who Text message their brother. Just trust the voice. Just give it a try for what it's worth. Okay. Mind somebody else's business. Mind somebody else's business. I like that. I really want to delve into this and I'm being pulled into it because of that guest. She's okay now but this guest has opened my eyes and made me so much more aware of other people who are being trusted. and who didn't escape as she did, because unfortunately, God forbid, they were in the, they ended up dying because, you know, the person who exploited them killed them and it's happening locally, right around us in our communities. And I'm being pulled into exploring solutions for this. I thank you for being brave yourself to show up in this and everyone can use. their part as you are doing as well. It's important. It's not a fun topic as well. There's no such thing as a child prostitute. I think that's an important thing. I want to make sure we consider that exploitation is about abuse of power and exploitation is a word applicable for all ages. But when it comes to our precious children, our minors, There is no such thing as a child prostitute. That is only exploitation. Right. And It's hard to think about. It is, and it happens. It happens to our girls, it happens to our boys, it impacts the LGBT community as well. Me coming here has changed my life forever. I'm really glad I did it. It's the hardest and best thing I've ever done. Um, and I used to say, I think I'm going to pull this off. And the Americans are now like, what do you mean you think you are doing it? And so being a visionary and an entrepreneur, I'm so tempted to think I'm not because my whole vision hasn't played out yet, but we live every day. We don't, unless we're Benjamin Button, we don't start being 85, do we? I hope, however, this. This story and this podcast has impacted listeners. Take a moment for yourself and do what you need to do. If it is Vegemite toast and a cup of hot tea, do that. But if you love juicy sweet peaches, go get one and eat it. If it is going to hug your child or kiss them on the forehead while they're sleeping, do the thing that connects you to yourself because that is, that is very important to do. Especially in hearing hard stories like this. And that is the perfect note to end on. Robin, I have to thank you. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. For your courage. For your resilience. I thank you for saying yes to your calling. I thank you for being so brave. And coming all the way over here. to set up such an incredible non profit and if somebody wants to get in touch with you or Turntable, how do they do that? Um, they can come to our website which is turntablehousing. com that's our best way, it's all one word, um, think of the DJ and think of houses and turntablehousing. com is our best way to be connected.