In part 3 of this travel series, Jenny talks about how to prepare for your trip with specific ideas for low stress packing, and how to talk to your family ahead of time to prepare for a smooth vacation experience.
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Need help applying this to your life? Ready for more strategies like this, but personalized to YOU? Set up your free consult and let’s talk about your unique situation and how coaching can help:
https://getcoached.jennyhobbsmd.com/consult
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Everything on this podcast and website is for informational purposes only and should not be used as medical advice. Views are our own, and do not necessarily represent those of our past or present employers or colleagues.
In part 3 of this travel series, Jenny talks about how to prepare for your trip with specific ideas for low stress packing, and how to talk to your family ahead of time to prepare for a smooth vacation experience.
_________
Need help applying this to your life? Ready for more strategies like this, but personalized to YOU? Set up your free consult and let’s talk about your unique situation and how coaching can help:
https://getcoached.jennyhobbsmd.com/consult
_________
Everything on this podcast and website is for informational purposes only and should not be used as medical advice. Views are our own, and do not necessarily represent those of our past or present employers or colleagues.
Welcome to Rethink your Rules with Jenny Hobbs MD. A fresh perspective on relationships, success and happiness for high achieving moms.
Jenny:Hey, there it's Jenny. Welcome back to another episode of Rethink your Rules. This week I am back with part three of our series on travel with kids, and with a specific focus on traveling with kids when you have neurodiverse individuals in your family. So, if you haven't already, be sure to check out parts one and two from the last couple of weeks. Part one was all about mindset strategies and part two was all about the pre-planning phase, where you're scheduling and deciding where to go and where to stay, and I packed a lot of tips into those two episodes that I think you'll find really helpful.
Jenny:Okay, so now we're going to fast forward. We're in the few weeks leading up to your trip and it's time to really prepare. And the big thing you want to remember here is that you need to take time to communicate clearly with your partner and your kids, so everyone's on the same page about expectations and so you can anticipate any struggles or issues that will come up. And if you do have a partner that is going to be traveling with you and is co-parenting with you, ideally I think it works best to sit down and talk with them about these things first, and then you can circle back later with the kids once the two of you are on the same page. Now, if you don't have a partner that's involved in going with you, then obviously that's one less conversation that you need to sit down and make time for. But I would still go through and think about these topics and get really clear on your thoughts about them before you sit down with your kids. You again want to think about those five areas that may be your biggest issues food, sleep, different energy levels, adult time versus kid time and the extra work involved with travel, kind of related to that. You might ask what challenges or issues do we anticipate are going to come up right, drawing on what's happened on previous trips, or drawing on some of the things I've shared here about how kids really need routine and structure and some of the types of neurodiversity you may have? Like, what do we anticipate is going to be a sticking point on this trip? What are we worried about Now?
Jenny:If you are doing this with your partner in a conversation ahead of time, before you speak with the kids, you also could include discussions about what are each of your biggest priorities on this trip, one or two things you absolutely really want to happen, and how can each of you make an effort to protect time so that the other person gets to do their most important things. And so, with all of that in mind, then, you want to agree on, okay, what are the basic expectations and boundaries we have for this trip, for our kids. What are some things that are non-negotiables, that we really care most about, and challenge yourselves to make these really really simple and minimal. If you need to, you may have to ask yourselves over and over well, does that really matter? Is that really the most important thing to focus on? What's the worst will happen if we let this thing go and the kids don't do that right? Really, try to loosen up on all those rules and expectations and ideas of perfection that you have and get this boiled down to the very most important things you can think about your priorities and what's realistic for your kids, and something that you want to do is really force yourselves to get these things as specific and clear as possible, potentially in writing, to get them automated as much as possible, so you're not having to make decisions in the moment.
Jenny:On the trip, if you're going to be splitting up mornings with the kids, you're going to be scheduling grownup time off and breaks, put it on in the calendar, set the alarms ahead of time, whatever it takes. So there's no questioning confusion, no wondering if they forgot it's their turn. You know, it's all very black and white, okay, and a big part of setting expectations like this is the what ifs. Okay, well, if this doesn't get met, this boundary does get crossed. Like, what are we going to do If there's something where you're saying to your kids if you do this, we're going to skip this activity. But hey, mom really wants to do that activity, okay, well, so what are you going to do then If they really do mess everything up? Does mom go to the activity by herself and dad takes the kids, right? What if someone of the grownups is feeling really dysregulated and needs a timeout? Do you need a code word? Do you need a plan? So the more you can think proactively about those things and actually put them down in writing and agree on them, the less time you'll have to spend with all that drama on the trip itself and you'll feel so much calmer and prepared, right? So decisions ahead of time make your life so much better. Now, I know that may sound like a lot, but again, remember this is not something where you do all of these things. You prioritize the biggest issues for your family and you try it and you have this mindset that you know we're going to tweak it trial and error. We're a team, we'll figure it out.
Jenny:So let's go through an example. Let's say that on your next trip, your main goal is to get to sleep in the mornings. You don't get to do that in your regular life. You're always up early, either for work or for the kids, and you also really want to have some time to sit in the sun and have a drink and read your book. Let's say your partner really wants to go golfing at a course that's there and really wants to go on a hike they've read about that's really beautiful and ideally they'd like the whole family to come with them. And let's say you both have, you know, a bike ride you want to go on as a family and a couple places that sound like they'd be fun to go out to dinner, and maybe there's a water park that you want to visit as a family. And let's say that you both agree that one of the biggest challenges on the last trip was screen time. The kids were always wanting more video game time or asking for when they were going to be doing video games, even when you were out trying to have a good time doing something else, and it caused a lot of frustration for you and your partner to have to be talking about that while you had paid money for this really nice trip that they didn't seem to be enjoying, etc.
Jenny:Then you think about how do we strategize for these things, anticipating what issues may come up with our kids, based on the past. Remember, you haven't spoken to your kids yet, but you want to get a lot of this clear between the two of you first. So with the sleeping, you might decide that your partner is going to get up early with the kids each day because they don't have to get up with them during regular life, or maybe they're always up earlier. They're more of a morning person and they're not going to sleep in on vacation anyway, whatever the case. So they're going to take all the mornings and you're going to get to sleep in every morning. And then in trade, you're going to make sure they get two or three chances to go golfing in the afternoon. We're going to go and schedule that and the agreement's going to be that after you get your chance to sleep in, then you're with the kids in the afternoon, so they get that time to themselves and maybe that's a fair trade for you guys.
Jenny:If you both like to sleep in, which is how my husband and I are, then maybe you create a schedule where you're alternating, or, like in my family, I know that if I even get like one or two days to really get a solid amount of sleep in I often then I'm actually fine getting up early. Um, sometimes I like to get up early on vacation, before the weather's too hot, depending where we're staying. Um, so I might say hey, you know all, if you take the first couple of days with them, I will sleep in, and then I will take the rest of the week. And my partner, he always, always wants to sleep in, no matter what. So maybe that is a good trade for him.
Jenny:And then, similarly, with the golfing for your partner and reading the book for you you want to talk about, okay, how often do you really want to do this? Maybe you want to read your book as much as possible, as much time as you can get, but your partner really only needs to go golfing. You know once and they're good. So, whatever the case is, then you might agree, okay, during that time that you're doing that, I'll watch the kids and vice versa, and you can decide if you need to schedule that ahead or if you're just going to kind of play it by ear as it comes up during the week. And just remember you're committed to making sure that those things happen.
Jenny:When it comes to the hiking now, that was really important to your partner. Maybe it sounds fun to you but it's not as important. So maybe you'll agree that you're really going to encourage the kids and try to get them excited about going on this and hopefully everyone can go. But if for some reason, it doesn't happen, there's a problem with the kid. You know. You agree you're going to be the one to stay behind and you know, hang out with that kid because it's more important to your partner not to miss out on it.
Jenny:And then, thinking about the activities you identified as the most important for this trip for everyone to do together so a family, bike ride, water park and a couple dinners out you take what you know about your kids and previous experiences and what we've talked about here about neurodiversity, and you strategize to make these have a higher chance of success. So, starting with the bike ride, okay, we know that this kid is not going to go at all if they're already hot and sweaty, right, and so maybe you schedule it at a time of day when it's evening or morning or something like that. Maybe you know that one of your kids is going to have a very hard time if it feels like they don't know how long it's going to last or how hard it's going to be, or it's going to feel like it's lasting longer than it is to them because it's not their preferred thing. So then you might decide to choose an easier or shorter ride, or you might choose something where there's an option, after a certain amount of time, for whoever wants to to turn back and go home, and others can continue. You might consider can we give the kid who has a hard time with that, or all the kids you know, a map or an expectation of where we're going so that they can see how long it's going to take? You know you can do that on like your maps program on your phone so they have an idea of an estimate. Or you can even strategize to have an ice cream shop or a pizza shop or an arcade or something along the way or where you're going to be ending up, so that there's a fun dopamine hit for them to look forward to or be surprised by. Depending on the type of kids you have, the surprise might be better, but for me I find a lot of times it's just really helpful for them to know ahead of time that that's there, so that they can get past their inertia about wanting to go on the family activity.
Jenny:And then, regarding the water park, maybe you both think it would be fun, but it's not something you're going to push for if the kids are going to be grumpy about it, because it's not that big of a deal to either of you and it's some money, right, no-transcript. So you take the pressure off and then, while you're there, you decide to go. But let's say now you know once you get there, one kid is never going to want to leave and the other kid is maybe already been acting kind of tired and they're kind of unpredictable. So perhaps you're going to decide to set a time, maybe you'll set a maximum time. So you'll say hey guys, we're here, we're going to have a great time. At three o'clock we're all going to head home so we can get some rest. And maybe you're doing that for mom and dad, you know, because mom and dad don't want to be stuck there all day fighting about not wanting to leave.
Jenny:Or maybe it's going to work better for your family to have like a minimum time, so you're going to say, hey, once it hits one o'clock, anyone who wants to leave can let us know, and then we'll all agree to leave as a family. Whatever the case, you're giving people some parameters and some autonomy to decide things. And if you know that one kid's going to love this a lot more than the other kid, maybe you go ahead and agree that, if there's a really strong difference of opinion, anytime after one o'clock the kid who's tired and bored can leave with one of the grownups to go do something else nearby or relax, and then you'll come back and pick the others up. Or maybe you'll agree to have one of you bring the kid who likes it more back another day for a little one-on-one time with one parent. So again, you don't have to make all of these decisions at once, but you just want to think about what might make it more fun and less stressful and pressure.
Jenny:And then, as you're thinking about the dinners, first of all, you want to think about spacing those things out potentially so you're not trying to do a bike ride and a dinner on the same day or two dinners back to back where your kids are going to be having, especially if you have a kid who's neurodiverse. Every time they're going out and doing these things, even if they're fun, it's requiring a lot of energy for them to interact in a neurotypical social environment. It's called masking, and so you want to be sure that you're giving them chances in between these important family activities where they have to do a lot of masking and require some energy, that they get to fill up their tank again with some time where no one's expecting anything of them, where they have their nose in a book or doing a video game or you know, whatever the case may be their preferred activity at home or at the hotel. So you space things out and then, when you're thinking about dinners, you know, think very carefully about is it going to make more sense to get a reservation so we can sit down immediately? We don't have to wait, or are we okay waiting? And then what are we going to do to fill the time if there's a long wait, are we? Is there somewhere we can hang out nearby? Can we bring books or games or, you know, conversation cards? I have these really great cards I found that are like um, this little get to know you.
Jenny:Questions for families.
Jenny:I forget there's a lot of different brands of these but surprisingly I throw those in my purse sometimes and my kids really have a good time just answering random questions as a family.
Jenny:So, thinking ahead about that, thinking about noise levels, uh, and whether or not the restaurant is the type of place that has a kid's menu, looking online for that, if the kid's menu doesn't have food your kids like, is there another creative option? Like, my son will have Coke and eat from the bread basket and be perfectly happy. Obviously, he eats other food at other times of the day, but maybe we all go to this restaurant we like and he eats from the bread basket and has a Coke and that's going to work best for us in this situation. Also thinking about, obviously, the type of restaurant. So if your goal is for you and your partner to have some quiet time alone during this meal, you know, can you? Is it a restaurant where your kids can bring their iPads or their Nintendo switch and play something with headphones on. Make sure you bring all that stuff after they've done they've finished eating with you so you can have that time.
Jenny:Or is this a time where you and your family want to prioritize the kids learning to sit through a meal as a family without those distractions, in which case you might pick a different type of restaurant that has more things that fit for them. And again, you want to prepare them ahead of time If that's going to be a change in expectation, and also plan ahead, for you know things to do to keep the family engaged during that time. So then you're going to talk about what to do about screens on this trip, because you've identified that's going to be an issue, and I just want to point out there's so many different ways to handle this between families with different kids and even different ages. Your needs and expectations around this are going to be different. Right, but let's just use an example. Let's say, in this family they're at a point where they know their one kid is neurodiverse and he's obsessed with video games and that's a certain amount of calming activity for him that he really looks forward to in his routines for the day, and they aren't really at the point where they want to disrupt that and deal with the consequences on this trip. Let's say, at the same time, they know that they are not okay having the screens be a big focus on the trip. They don't want to take up a lot of time and energy, they don't want to have to fight about turning them off and they want the kids to be able to disengage from them and actually enjoy the fun activities. So they're going to take that plus everything that they've heard here on this podcast and what they know about their kids in terms of needing routine and structure and safe time and information to plan and things like that, and they're going to come up with a plan that may work. And again, this is going to be trial and error.
Jenny:But let's say, these parents know that they really want to be able to sleep and the best way for them to do that is to sleep in in the morning, because neither of them can nap very well. So maybe they're going to combine the daily screen time with the parents getting to sleep in, so you have a plan for the kids to do it in the morning until a certain point. Or maybe these parents actually like to get up and enjoy the place that they're staying in the morning before it gets too hot and sunny, and they really want some downtime in the afternoon to have a glass of wine and chat or enjoy the air conditioning or whatever. So maybe they're going to combine that with their kids screen time. Maybe they just really don't know. It's a big busy trip like Disney or a cruise or something, and it's really hard to know when the best time is going to be for that screen time. So all bets are off and they spend a lot of money and there's a lot of fun, cool things happening and they're just not gonna be able to give the kids a specific time every day for the screen time to happen. So they'll get that in mind and then they'll kind of make a plan.
Jenny:Okay, so we're going to say that they can count on an hour a day of screen time, but we don't know when it's going to happen. So they're going to have to trust us that we're going to find that time and offer it to them and not ask us about it all day. Or maybe we are going to be doing it each day sometime late afternoon before dinner. We may have to be a little flexible on the specific timing, because that's kind of part of vacation, but we'll make sure it happens. And then you might say, hey, we don't want to hear about all day, and if you are asking about it, we are going to decrease the amount of time by five minutes each time you ask. Or if you ask about it more than this many times, then we're just going to skip it for that day. Again, you want to be realistic here. We're not going to be harsh, trying to punish them. It's just to kind of accomplish what you all need to enjoy this trip for our kids.
Jenny:What we've often done is we say, if you ask, we're going to decrease the amount of time, you know, by five minutes each time you ask. And everyone gets like a freebie, like a pass where you forget and you ask whatever. You may also want to include in this a reward system for a behavior you really want them to work on on this trip. So maybe you really want them to sit quietly at the dinner table or try a new food at the dinner out or whatever. So maybe they get a basic amount of time, like 30 or 60 minutes, and then they get extra screen time as a reward, based on how many times they're able to try a new food or sit quietly or be flexible when their sister wants to do something they don't want to do, et cetera. So you don't want to have too many different things, but keep it focused on really important behaviors and then, ideally, as many positive ways where you can add on things. So you can use the screen time as a nice reward and certainly if you're going to be asking them to do some family activities that are really far out of their comfort zone, then you may even want to say you know, having a great attitude on this activity that we're having you go on will earn you this much extra time, you know, or something like that. So this was just examples.
Jenny:Screen time is so unique and personal between families, individual kids and even kids at different ages. So this is why you really want to just think about it in light of what's most important to you and don't worry about what other people are going to think or say think about what's going to accomplish the big goals that you had. I also recommend, during this time, just thinking ahead about any sticking points, like if there's a day where you guys are going to be on a long, expensive activity that you, the kids, are not allowed to miss and it's probably not going to allow time for you know, their screen time, you know, just keep in mind okay, there's gonna be some exceptions to this plan we've made, and you're going to need to talk to the kids about all that as well, so that the fewer surprises the better, right, okay, so I hope that that example gives you a picture of what this would look like for one particular family on a particular trip with a particular set of needs. You want to think through the questions I asked at the beginning and some of what I've shared in the other two travel episodes and just kind of picture what this might look like for you and your family, and I want to point out that these strategies can work really well whether you're planning trips with a lot of time and energy and details and things booked at a specific time, or whether you are just, you know, going on a trip without a lot of specific planning and you want to just be spontaneous and play by ear and relax. Maybe you've been too busy to plan. I've actually used these strategies in both scenarios and it's worked fine. The key is just to see where you can start implementing some of these ideas into your life without it feeling like a big added to-do list item or stress.
Jenny:So if you have a trip coming up, not spending a lot of time planning, just hoping to be spontaneous. Relax, enjoy yourself great, as you're thinking about how great the trip's going to be, that anticipatory excitement that we get right Maybe just blend into those thoughts, okay, like how can I make sure that this priority really happens for me, or is there something I could ask for help with so that this happens, or things like that, or what came up last time with my kids that I could maybe head off at the pass with some kind of conversation so that I can fully enjoy this? Just think about it, right? Or while you're packing, or even while you're on the plane or waiting in the airport thinking about this, or if you're chatting with your partner as you're getting ready and the kids are busy with their headphones on, or whatever, you might just ask them. Hey, I was thinking like what's most important to you about this trip, what you know, what's been disappointing about other trips? I was trying to think how we could be intentional about making sure we each have some time. Just make it like a fun, interesting conversation as part of your excitement and anticipation for the trip.
Jenny:Now, on the other hand, if you're someone who spends a lot of time planning and booking things and getting itineraries correct and that's going to be really important to you. You may actually want to divert some of that time and energy from all of that to really forcing yourself to answer these questions. Constrain down to the most important, ask yourself again and again, like what really matters? What can I maybe delete? And maybe taking some of that time to sit down with your partner and have them help you come up with a cohesive plan together. That may actually be a better use of your time and energy than continuing to plan and try to make everything quote unquote perfect. So I really like to advocate for a happy medium between planning and spontaneity and this you can probably see this in the examples I've been giving.
Jenny:So the planning piece is important for high priority items that need to be booked ahead of time or only available on certain dates or times, or if you you know they end at a certain point so you don't want to miss them. Better make sure those are scheduled right. Also, if you have sticking points that often come up over and over, planning ahead for how you're going to address those is worth it, even if it feels painful at the time, because then you don't have to deal with it so much on the trip. So for us that's like who's gonna get up in the morning on vacation and what we're going to do about screen time with the kids. So I make a plan for that with my partner, get it as clear cut as we can, communicate it to the kids as clearly as we can, because I'm the one that suffers if we don't sort that out right. Also, anything that you identified is really important.
Jenny:That may be difficult or challenging or require a lot of energy from some members of the family, like going on a bike ride, dinner out, like I mentioned. You may want to at least plan loosely where they're going to fall in the week, looking at the flow of everything so that they're separated out by enough white space and time to recover, or on different days during the week, or if everybody takes a while to get acclimated, maybe not right away when you first get there. So, thinking about that, you can be more detailed in planning them. But I kind of like to just have a general idea of the days and maybe the part of the day, like morning, afternoon or evening, on these days when we're going to try to fit in some of these things that we want to do, just so that I know that we're spacing it out in a reasonable way and I might have a list of some of the things that we may want to fill those times with. And I may not even necessarily choose the restaurant or the specific activity until we're on the trip, but at least then I can kind of make sure that everyone's aware of when we're going to be asking them to do something together. That's not optional, and I also think it's important to actually plan the unplanned time that goes around those activities. Now, I know this is going to sound crazy, planning unplanned time, but stick with me.
Jenny:Planning unplanned time is really important for your kids because there's a tendency sometimes for them to not notice they're getting free time, relaxing time, you know, whatever the case may be, unless you actually point out they're getting it. So they may just feel like, oh gosh, like we're doing whatever we wanted. Life was great. And then mom came in and ruined it at four o'clock when she said we had to go do something. Well, they're not going to realize they just had, you know, eight hours of chilling time by the pool or whatever. So you want to point that out and really signpost for them when they're getting that. It can also be helpful while you are taking them to a non-preferred activity. If they're stressing out or having a hard time coping, it can help them to know oh, but on the schedule we have all this free time where no one's going to ask anything of me, and so that can be really helpful for them to have that planned ahead of time so they see it coming.
Jenny:I also think that planning your unplanned time is really helpful for you as the mom. So if you're anything like me and my clients, you're a busy working mom who is used to being in this hustle mindset where you're either on the go physically doing all the things, multitasking, or, if not, you're at least like constantly thinking of what needs to be done and how you can make it done, how you can use your time best. There's not a lot of just sort of white space for you, whether you like it or not, and that becomes your habit and your reality and you get very comfortable with that. If you have ADHD, on top of that, you may have a lot of FOMO, you may have difficulty being realistic about your limits and your capacity, so you may think that you can just do all the things and you don't need as much time to rest as really you would benefit from, and all of that stuff can be hard to turn off on vacation. So, even though you may want to relax, you may not really know how to sit and relax in the do nothing style that maybe comes naturally to your kids or your husband.
Jenny:But if you have planned the unplanned time and you know when it's coming and you know that it's going to be ending and you know that all the things that you care about are going to be happening at other times, it can really free you up to be in the moment, more with them during these times. So you can actually remind that worried part of your brain. No, no, no, we're going to just focus on our purpose here, which is to be present with our kids, and they're going to lead the way and I'm going to do what they want to do. Or purpose here is to do whatever I want and I have nothing else I have to do, so let's just see what comes up. I never get a chance to do this. Or the purpose here is to take a nap, because all I want to do is sleep. But however you want to articulate it to yourself. It just kind of gives you something to focus your brain on other than just giving in to the sort of habit thoughts of all the things to worry about, and it gives you something to kind of reply back when those thoughts present themselves, like no, no, remember we already addressed all that. We're just going to enjoy this moment, and that's actually more important right now.
Jenny:And when I say planning the unplanned time, I mean that pretty generally, like identifying mornings, afternoons, evenings of certain days where that's going to be a goal is just to relax and recover and not have any expectations or maybe a certain time of day that's always going to make sense for that, like every morning, we're just going to do whatever we want sleep in, you know, read books, whatever no expectations on anybody. When you actually are on the trip, you may need to get a little bit more granular in terms of specific times and you may want to even coordinate with your partner about what time it's going to end in particular, so that you're not having to stress about making that time decision by yourself while everyone else is asleep and you have to wake them all up from their relaxing time to make them go to dinner, but in general you don't need to have this all fleshed out in great detail before you go. So, even among the things I just told you to plan, notice how all of them can be done in a very general way. That can be adjusted throughout the week, except for the very first where you're actually booking things with specific time and reservation. So the last step of this preparatory time period is to make sure you've communicated all this to your kids, or at least the parts that they need to know. So clearly and calmly communicating this with your kids.
Jenny:I don't know that it necessarily has to be one big conversation. Sometimes it's best, as a few, sort of smaller conversations with time for them to think in between and feeling very casual and kind of fun, not overwhelming, obviously, fewer words, lower expectations, but focusing on the core priorities you and your partner talked about and the things where your kids are going to be asked to do something that is a change from their usual routine or a change from a previous trip or something you know that they don't like or will be very opposed to or frustrated by right. Or, if you're not sure, just think back to what I told you about what kids are like and neurodiverse kids. So think about what things are going to feel stressful, even if they haven't been able to communicate that to you yet and then you're going to share these things with them from a place that is calm, intentional and empathetic. So acknowledging what you anticipate may be challenging or hard for them to hear, and that's totally okay and totally normal and very matter of fact about. This is kind of just how it is sometimes on vacation, okay.
Jenny:So, for example, you might start off with I know that it's really important to you to have screen time at a particular time each day on this trip coming up. That's not going to be possible. What I can tell you is that you know dad and I have agreed you can have this much screen time and we will make it happen. It might be morning, it might be afternoon, we don't know Right, but you don't have to worry that it's not going to be happening Right, whatever the case, and you can explain any contingencies around that. And you might say, however, on this one day, we paid a lot of money to be at this theme park all day, so that day I really can't promise that we're going to do video game time because we're going to be spending a lot of time and money on this other activity and everyone's going to be tired. It's going to be late when we get home. But other than that day, we're going to make sure we fit it in. And I will even anticipate and that doesn't mean we're adding that time from that day onto a different day Because I know my kid and that's how he would think, and then I would allow him some space and he might be upset and I'd be like I get it. I know this pisses you off, it's not your favorite.
Jenny:Sometimes on vacation, things are a little bit different. It's part of being in. We have to do things that the whole family wants to do, even though we don't want to do it, and I give them space for that and you use that for every single thing that you're doing. So the going out to dinner thing right, okay, we're going to be going out to dinner. I know this isn't your favorite and then you signpost for them some of the things you've thought about as contingencies.
Jenny:And again, matter of fact, well, sometimes when we're on vacation together, this is what we do and this is what we do, and even if you do all that perfectly, they may have a very strong reaction. They may lash out at you. They may make really broad statements about how they're never going to do something or you're the worst parent ever. I've heard all the things. Trust me, but do your best to remind yourself that that's totally normal. That's there they get to have that emotional big response. They're in fight or flight, they're anxious, they're frustrated. They're just a kid, right? Try not to react too heavily, because sometimes if you just let that sort of get out of their system and you really listen to it first of all, it helps their emotions sort of calm down. You can even say that should really make sense, that you feel that way. I totally I get it. You don't have to love this right and as you try to listen to what they're saying, even if it's so angry and hateful and mean and irrational, there's usually a glimmer under there of, like, the real problem that they're having and sometimes you can have a solution that is available that you just didn't think to offer.
Jenny:So this happened for me one time when my kid was really upset about going on a walk to a park and there was a lot of anger but a lot of statements I was hearing were about like being a walk to a park and there was a lot of anger. But a lot of statements I was hearing were about like being worried about how long it was going to take and how far it was going to be. So I started by allowing some space and just letting all that stuff to be said out loud by the kid and I didn't argue, I just kind of dropped the rope and let it hang in the air and then I circled back privately when there wasn't a big scene with everyone, and I said, hey, I was thinking about this and I'm thinking that you're concerned because you think that's going to take a really long time and you don't know when it's going to end and when you're going to get back here where it feels safe and comfortable. And he was like, yeah, that's exactly what I'm worried about. And so I pulled out my phone and the map program and I mapped out the walk and I said, hey, what if you carry this while we're going, so you can see exactly how far it is and it shows you the time and what's passed and you can see it wasn't very long and disaster averted, it was totally fine. Plus, I was taking advantage of how he likes tech and things right.
Jenny:There's so much information underneath those responses if you can make sure that you intentionally add as much time as you can to just listening to them. So asking open-ended questions what are they excited about? What are they nervous about on this trip? What are they confused about? Do they have questions? You'd be surprised how much they just don't know because they haven't been to a place. And pulling out the laptop and showing pictures or videos or YouTube you know tours of the place you're going can be really helpful for them.
Jenny:And, along those lines, noticing in this conversation what things it would be helpful for you to write down or spell out in terms of agendas, timetables, flight times, any big activities they should be aware of so they know when they're coming, whatever it seems like is going to help them with these concerns. And you can just sort of offer those things and maybe just do them on your own, especially if they're really young. But you could also approach it from a more collaborative place and just stop and say, okay, what things have been really difficult for you, what are you worried about, see how much self-awareness they can build around what's hard, and then, if they're having trouble offer okay. Well, I noticed that it seemed like this is kind of challenging. I'm wondering why? Can you tell me what's, what was up that?
Jenny:day when we were on that trip and you were so upset. And then, as you guys find these things, you can again kind of say well, what do we think we could do to make this a little better. I know that traveling is not your favorite and an option is not going to be to just not go, and we can't make planes always leave on time. So, with that said, like, how can we work together and how can we help you and what are your ideas? And they may even come up with some really good ideas and solutions that they could take ownership of. Like they could go through and write down the times themselves, or they could make a list of ideas that they could and things that they could do, or they could bring something to have as a plan to keep them occupied if they get frustrated. Now, of course, the degree to which they're going to be an active participant in this is going to vary a lot, based on their personality and their age and all kinds of things, but I do think it's important to keep in mind, because you want them to begin to take a bit of ownership, begin to be self-aware and advocate for themselves when they have needs that maybe are different than a group in a way that's effective and not problematic and destructive. And this is the way they begin to develop that skill is by you working on it with them, not just telling them what to do or solving it for them or being mad at them about it, but actually helping them actively engage with the problem with you right, and regardless of whether they're able to do any of that or not, this is one of many ways that you can be intentionally signposting for them where they have autonomy and choice and ownership. And that is so key because, first of all, it's human nature we don't like to always be told what to do and it feels better when we have a little bit of choice or say, whether we're a kid or not, that's not really any different, and kids spend a lot of their time being told what to do by other people, so this is going to feel better to them. And also, each time you do this, it's like a little deposit into the relationship between the two of you. It helps these interactions to feel just a little bit more two-sided and collaborative, and that is going to make it much easier for you to get their buy-in on the parts that you're basically telling them they have to do. Not so many words, right? Okay, we're going to wrap this up with some super quick tips about packing and how to make that easier.
Jenny:My first tip for this is to have some kind of master list for trips that you take, and maybe just take whatever you use for your most recent trip and start with that, and then you're going to continually add to it and edit it over time so it will get better and better and more useful to you can save this as a master template or something like that. I actually got the word template because we do ours within the reminders app and they have a system where you can make a reminder list and then create a template from that list. That's then there and then, whenever you want to start a new list so let's say you have a trip plan going to Alaska you can go in, pull up your template and then you create a specific Alaska template, you share it with your partner and then you can start adding and tweaking that, but your master is still there untouched. So then if you have a trip where you're going, you know, just driving to the lake you might pull up the template and make a separate one just for that. I actually now have two. One is for car travel and one is for air travel because I found that what we need to remember for each is very different, and that's really great because I can get super specific with each one. Like in terms of food, the food I'm going to want to buy at the grocery store for a car trip is very different than the food I'm going to want to have for a plane trip, where we're going to have most of our meals served to us at a resort or something right. It'll serve to us at a resort or something right.
Jenny:The other reason that I really like having that template there electronically on my phone is that, as we're on a trip, if we notice we've forgotten something, I can go in and add it as a specific line item to our template so that I know, okay, this is something we're likely to forget and we're going to highlight it specifically on here, so we just didn't think of that last time. Or if I find a product or something we both really like, that's working well, I just go right in and add that right away, and you can be more or less specific depending on what your family needs, and I love that. For us, the Reminders app is shared and we can both sort of use it in real time and so if I'm off doing my other job, working nights, not seeing Kevin, he can get started on the list that I've created, and I don't have to necessarily like spell out for him everything. I can even put due dates or assign certain people to certain tasks and things like that, and he can obviously edit it as well. So that has been a game changer for us and it takes so much of that mental load off of me having to remember all those things each time and double check Did we remember this? Did we remember that?
Jenny:Now I just have to remember to set up the specific list from the template one time and then, anytime something pops in my head, if I'm not sure, I can go add it in on the active list and it's done. I should mention that I call it a packing list, but I also include on there a bunch of the prep stuff. So making the hotel reservation, booking the flights, getting our dog daycare set up, figuring out the car rental, getting the passports, checking in for the flight Every nitty gritty thing is on that list to prepare, going back months, even potentially. And again, that just really helps so that both my partner and I can see what things have been done and what things haven't, and so it's not so much on me to keep that running list in my mind, stressing me out or asking him to do it and then having to give him all the details because it's all right there. And, by the way, if you have interest in looking at the templates I've made so you can use those as a starting point to get you thinking, that's totally fine, I'm happy to share. Just email me, jenny, at jennyhobbsmdcom and put in the subject line family trip templates or something like that, and I will go ahead and send them to you. If I get a deluge of people interested in this, I'll just make it as kind of a download somewhere where people can go in and access it and I'll let you know. But I'm all about sharing and making life easier for everyone. Why redo the mental work I've already done right?
Jenny:And the other big tip I have for packing is to really engage your kids in it from an early age. Obviously you can adapt this based on how old they are and their level of interest, but we've had really good luck with giving them a very simple, straightforward list. If they can read, you can write it down. If not, you can give them kind of one thing at a time to go run and collect for you. But you want to say you need four shirts or three pairs of shorts or whatever the case, and have them get that again checklist, or one by one. Make sure to explain to them, you know, whether they need long sleeves, short sleeves, things like that, but really giving them some autonomy to pick out what it is that they want. And one of our kids likes to actually help us fold it all and put it away. The other one like throws it in there and is like I'm done right. So we get again low expectations, but it's out there, it's for us. We don't have to go wrestle around and find everything and then we can just tuck it in the bag.
Jenny:And then on the day that we're actually going to leave on the trip, my kids get another small checklist from me. If you're a doctor, you'll know it has those little checky boxes that we love, and each checky box is something that they need to get done so that they can leave the house for the day. So it usually includes, you know their morning routine combing hair, brushing teeth, all that and then I include a list of what to put in their carry-on bag or their backpack. You're going to have to think about how specific you need to be with your kids and how much stuff you want them to carry. But you know water, snacks, books, you know a pen and pencil, art supplies, one stuffy whatever. So you get that there and I give it to them and I tell them this is kind of like their ticket. So they go through, they complete all these activities, they check them off and when they're done and I they give it back to me completed. Then they can sit down and watch TV or play video games until we're leaving.
Jenny:So it's basically my way of keeping them busy and occupied and out of our hair while we're doing all the things and making sure that they are completely ready to go, walk out the door. Once we're ready, and because there's that nice reward at the end of it for them, it tends to work really well. Again, take this concept and adapt it to your family. We have had to do different variations with one of my kids who's a little less independent, with this stuff or when they maybe couldn't read as well, but this general concept has been really useful and takes a lot of the stress out of the trip and again, it's building that ownership for them as well.
Jenny:Okay, so that is it for prep and packing for your family vacation when you have a family of neurodiverse individuals, or just if you're a busy mom struggling to find a way to enjoy travel and feel somewhat relaxed and refreshed by the time you come back.
Jenny:If you would like me to send over those templates or an example of the post-it notes I send my kids or any other nitty-gritty things that would be helpful, just let me know I'm more than happy to send them. I want you to give these things a try because I know they can be a game changer. And if you want to work in more depth on any of these issues or on the mindset piece or how to communicate this effectively with your partner, your kids that's what my one-on-one coaching is for you can set up a free console at the link here in the show notes and we can explore the details of your situation that may not fit into these general tips and I can explain how I might be able to help you with that. Otherwise, I hope you have an amazing week. If you're on spring break, I hope that you have a really great time and I will see you right back here next week.
Kevin:Thanks for listening to Rethink your Rules with Jenny Hobbs MD. Would you like to learn more about how to apply this to your own life through personalized coaching with Jenny? Visit us on the web at JennyHobbsMDcom to schedule a free consultation. If you found value in what you heard today, please consider subscribing to the podcast and giving us a five-star rating so we can reach even more women like you.