Central Lutheran Church - Elk River
Central Lutheran Church - Elk River
Misunderstood with Ben Carruthers
Addressing conflict isn't easy, but it’s essential. This episode tackles the uncomfortable yet necessary act of confronting issues head-on instead of hiding behind gossip or avoidance. Personal stories and biblical insights highlight why it's crucial to approach the person directly when grievances arise. By emphasizing direct communication, we aim to deter the harmful effects of gossip and third-party involvement, which only fuel discord. We explore practical steps for handling conflicts constructively, ensuring that our community remains united and strong.
The episode concludes with a powerful discussion on the transformative potential of difficult conversations. Reflecting on experiences from Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE), we delve into the growth that comes from vulnerability and honest feedback. Personal anecdotes about peer feedback exercises reveal how facing our own shortcomings can lead to significant personal development. By viewing each other as works in progress, we foster a community built on patience, understanding, and love. This heartfelt episode encourages us to embrace our imperfections and those of others, paving the way for deeper connections and mutual growth in Christ.
Join us! Facebook | Instagram | www.clcelkriver.org
Happy 4th of July weekend. My name is Ben Carruthers. I'm the youth director here and it's great to be worshiping with you and, for those of you who are online and watching from home or your cabin, thanks for being with us. At 10 o'clock, we're all going to turn and watch the doors open for those who thought the service was at 10, and we're going to judge them as they come in. It's going to be a group thing. It's going to be lots of fun.
Speaker 1:This morning we are kind of a one-off sermon. What I mean by that is we ended our last series last week and we got two weeks off before we start our you Pick series, and so this morning the sermon title is called Misunderstood and we're looking at that verse Matthew 18, 20, but really we're looking at the whole context of it. And that verse that 18, 20, and we'll talk about it in a second is often misunderstood, and when we don't understand what Jesus is really trying to talk about, we are missing the point. And this morning it's a pretty important point that Jesus is trying to make my son Arlo. He's seven years old.
Speaker 1:He had his tonsils and adenoids removed on Monday. I got a picture of him after he was recovering. There he is. He's a champ. So on Monday he goes and gets his tonsils removed and, by the way, the doctor removed them and came out to my wife and I and she said these are the biggest tonsils that she's ever seen. They were huge and pussy and gross, and I have a picture for you this morning. So I'm just kidding, I don't have a picture for you this morning. I do have a picture, so if you're into that stuff, I guess come and find me, but they were horrible. And so part of this, though, his recovery process is two weeks of really taking it easy, right. So the surgery was on Monday.
Speaker 1:Tuesday I worked from home and stayed with him, and I came to work Wednesday, and when I got home, I went and saw him right away and he's recovering in my bed watching Dude Perfect. That. I went and saw him right away and he's recovering in my bed watching Dude Perfect. That's what he loves to watch, and I go up to him. I'm like buddy, how you doing, how are you feeling? And he does this to me and I'm like dude, that's awesome, peace and thumbs up right. Like that's great. Oh, I'm so happy. I gave him a big hug. I'm like buddy. I went and saw Arlo. He's doing great. She's like what are you talking about? I got a peace sign and a thumbs up and she's like.
Speaker 1:That means he's at a level three pain, which is his highest pain. So his father, who loves him dearly, was just in there. I said how you doing? He said I'm in the worst pain in my life. And his dad gave him a hug and kiss and said good and left the room.
Speaker 1:Little did I know that whole day was my wife and him coming up with all these different hand signals because he's not supposed to talk about what things meant. This meant he's at the highest level of pain. This means that he wants our cell phone so he can type a message out to us. This means he would like some jello. He had all these different signs. I had no idea. I was oblivious, which really kind of upset me, like they really had a bonding day and I had no idea what was going on. And so, when I was totally oblivious, I misunderstood what my son needed.
Speaker 1:When we dive into Scripture and when we take a piece of Scripture like this one like Matthew 18, 20, out of its context, we misunderstand what God is doing here and in this case, this is Jesus speaking to us specifically about a topic that I think many of us in this room run away from. He's speaking to us how to handle conflict. How do we deal and manage with conflict in our life, and I think a lot of people are ready to get up and leave right when they hear the word conflict. They want nothing to do with it. Others of us, like myself, when we hear conflict, we're ready to go right Like a little bit too happy about it. But no matter where you are on this spectrum of dealing with conflict, I think, whoever you are, it's something that we can all learn to handle better. And for some of you, when you hear the word conflict, you are immediately brought to a situation going on in your life right now that you're in the middle of conflict and maybe you don't know how to handle it. Or maybe you're brought back to a previous conflict that you had and think man, how did I handle that?
Speaker 1:Jesus really gives us a very clear idea of how to handle conflict in this passage. That's why we're going to take a look at it and dive into it this morning. So before we do that, will you pray with me, lord. God, we give you thanks and praise for the opportunity to gather together, to worship together and to dive into your word together. And, lord, as we dive into this passage about conflict, lord, I pray for open hearts and open ears to receive it. I pray that this conversation this morning moves us towards restoration in relationships that we have, moves us towards maybe seeing things a little differently, but more so, lord, it moves us closer to you and your heart. It's in your name. We pray Amen.
Speaker 1:So Matthew 18, 20, it says this for where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there in the midst of them. Have you raise your hand? If you've ever heard this passage before, keep your hand up. If you've heard it in the midst of a worship gathering where someone says we are here together, that means God is here. Yeah, right. I lived in Australia for a year as a youth director and I was at a conference called Wipeouts, this gathering of 500 youth in Adelaide, and I was like the MC guy and I get up and there's like 500 youth. Man, they're on fire. They're so excited. And I go to this passage because this is a home run passage in these kind of situations, right, you get up there and you're like guys.
Speaker 1:The Bible says very clearly where two or three or more are gathered, god is with us. That means God is with us. Now, is that true? Of course it's true, but completely taken out of context. Right, because there's two problems when we look at this verse this way. The first is the common sense problem. Pastor Votie Bauckham talks about this, talks about how we have common sense problems when it comes to scripture, and this is the first one. It's this common sense.
Speaker 1:It's like, if we take 30 seconds and step back and think about what we say when we use the verse in this way, it doesn't make sense, because I lived on my own for seven years. I was a bachelor for well, I was a bachelor for longer than seven years, but I lived on my own for seven years. I was a bachelor for longer than seven years, but I lived on my own for seven years, and when I wanted to pray or when I wanted to have a devotion or when I wanted to spend time with God, I didn't have to run to my neighbor like a crazy person and say, hey, listen, I need two or three to spend some time with God we talk about all the time here. When you are in the dark, deepest parts and you're in the pit and you're dealing with stuff and it hurts and you feel alone. What do we say? All the time you are not alone, god is with you. It makes me think back to those days where I've used this verse and I have used it that way many times. For a student who is feeling absolutely alone in that deep, dark place, and for someone to get up and say where two or three are gathered, that's where God is, and for that person to feel utterly alone and think that God can't be with him, it doesn't make sense, because God is always with you. So that's a common sense problem.
Speaker 1:Now, as we dive into scripture right, as we dive into scripture right, as we dive into the context, we see another problem. That's why we have to go further than 18, 20, and we have to dive into 15 through 20. And because we don't want to be here till three o'clock, I got some real quick notes and then we're going to really hammer in on just the first verse. So jesus is speaking to his disciples and he starts off with saying this when talking about conflict, when dealing with conflict. He says go to the person, step one in dealing with conflict. You go to the person. In verse 16, he says listen. If that doesn't work, then take two or three other people of the church or other trusted members of your relationships and go to that person. He says if that doesn't work, then take it to the church leaders, take it to even more people and bring the situation to them. And then 17, he says if that doesn't work, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector, which we'll talk about in a little bit. And then he wraps this all up in the context of if you follow conflict mediation this way now, those aren't his words.
Speaker 1:If you follow this idea of what conflict resolution can look like, god is in it. This is an honoring way to handle conflict in the eyes of God. That's where that verse 20 comes from. It's about conflict. Now buckle up, because there's a lot of verses here and we're only going to be able to get through the first one, because in writing this thing in the first one, I thought about three or four stumbling blocks that we have in dealing with conflict, and so, before we even get to verse 20, let's look at verse 15. The very first thing Jesus is saying here is stay in your lane. Stay in your lane as the kids stay right, stay in your lane. Verse 15 says if your brother sins against you, if your brother sins against you.
Speaker 1:Now there's two pieces here that we have to talk about in conflict. The first is he says if your brother sins against you. This is conflict within relationships. This is conflict within the church community that Jesus is talking about here. And for us to think that that doesn't exist in this place, in these pews, in the lives of people who go here. We are way off the map, but we're just really good at hiding it. We're really good at shoving it down. This is not the conflict that you have when you're driving on 169 and some guy cuts you off and you yell schmohawk, right. Not that kind of conflict. Or lately, it's that guy who goes all the way up until they can't merge anymore and they have to move over on 169. When the merge sign was two miles back, just saying it's fine, you know who you are. It's not that type of conflict. It's this conflict that exists within this body of believers, brothers and sisters in Christ. It's this kind of conflict, that Jesus is laying this out. And you see, we're good Christian people. We love Jesus with all of our heart.
Speaker 1:Conflict seems to be something that we don't have to deal with because we're just going to put a smile on and not deal with it. Jesus is saying no, it exists, it's real and it needs to be dealt with. And this is the kind of thing that he's laying out in verse 15. When your brother sins against you, brother and sister in Christ, and then he says very clearly against you when your brother or sister sins against you, this is not meddling, this is not peeking your face over the fence of your neighbor to see what's going on. This is when things happen to you. Now a disclaimer we need to stand up for people who are being treated poorly. Right, obviously, this is not what we're talking about here. One of my favorite quotes is by Edmund Burke. It says this the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. We need to stand up in the face and in the presence of evil, absolutely. But this is not what he's talking about here.
Speaker 1:A great example is if you have children, you know exactly what this is like. I have four kids and my youngest one is my sniper. I send him in or he'll come and let me know when situations with the other three are not going so well. My wife and I will be upstairs watching a show or reading and up comes little Ezra, little five-year-old sweet Ezzy, and he sits down on the couch and says Isaiah and Maya are fighting. I'm like okay, well, aren't you going to go down there and take care of it? No, five minutes later he comes back up. They're still fighting. I get it right and we laugh because we see it in kids all the time. But it's exactly what we do as adults.
Speaker 1:We look for other kind of conflict, we search out this other kind of stuff that's not ours, because it's much easier to worry about that stuff than to worry about this stuff and we start meddling in the lives of others. This is the sin that is against you. Where your brother or sister has harmed or affected you. It's not about meddling, because what that does is it leads to gossiping. This is the very first verse about conflict, right, and if you want to keep that conflict growing and keep growing it stronger, gossiping is the way to go. Proverbs 18.8 says this the words of a gossip are like the choice morsels they go down to a man's inmost parts Probably one of the most grossest passages in Scripture. That's pretty nasty, right, but what he's saying here is man, gossip gets inside of you, deep, embeds itself inside of you, takes over, and you don't even know it's there. That's what happens when we allow this stuff to take over our lives, when we don't focus on the conflict that's right in front of us, the sin that's been happening against you, and we're going to use that word sin a lot. But I don't want you to think about, maybe, whatever you're thinking right now, it's when someone harms you, when someone lies to you, when someone affects you in a way. That's what this verse is talking about. So it's about you, a sin that has happened against you from your brothers and sisters in Christ. That's the first thing. Verse 15 is not over.
Speaker 1:Verse 15 continues and talks a little bit about a thing called triangulation. Triangulation Verse 15 says this if your brother sins against you, so a brother in Christ sins against you. Go and show him his faults. Go and show him his faults. It doesn't say go and run and talk to your neighbor. It doesn't say go and run and post this all to Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or whatever it is. It says bring your stuff to that person. If you want to see a great example of triangulation, which is when you have issue with someone where you go over here instead of to the person you need to, you form this ugly triangle.
Speaker 1:If you want to see a beautiful piece of what triangulation looks like, go to any city's Facebook page and I did this yesterday, right, I went to Elk River, zimmerman and Ramsey's Facebook page because if you know what I'm talking about, you see these posts and I love them. They're hilarious of someone in a car taking a picture of the car in front of them and it says dear owner of the red Prius, thanks for cutting me off. And they put that to the social media page and then it's littered, littered with a bunch of comments just ripping on this poor Prius, right, and I wanted to show you a couple of them because they're out there and I couldn't because they're so foul Because what is said on them is ridiculous. So foul because what is said on them is ridiculous. This is what triangulation looks like. The owner of the red prius isn't driving home, going right to their facebook page like I wonder if someone posted something about my driving today so I can learn how to be a better driver. I guarantee you they're not doing that, but we do it all the time and in more serious matters, when someone really hurts us and affects us, we go over here and talk to a person about it or go over here and post about it. And then the funny thing is is that person's probably going to see that post. The person who really offended you probably knows this person and the word's going to get back to them. And then you're back to that gossip and then you've gone backwards and you've gone further and further and down into the conflict and it's grown and grown and grown. But you're really dealing with two things now, two things that we really shy away from Conflict. Another one Hold on, Let me check my notes Confrontation. I knew it was a C word Conflict and confrontation. But something incredible happens when you take this hurt, this pain, to that person.
Speaker 1:I shared a while ago that I was in this thing called CPE clinical pastoral education. I did it down at the prison and it was a six-month thing. We would go there once or twice a week and we'd learn how to do spiritual care. And at the halfway mark, we had to do an exercise that I did not want to do, one because I'm just I'm not a very open, vulnerable person. I like to keep everything here and keep it all together, which is horrible, but that's not the sermon today and so.
Speaker 1:But it was a peer feedback exercise where you had to go and write feedback for every single member of the group and there were eight of us and you had to write something maybe that you've learned from that person, and then you had to write an area in their life that you think they can grow, an area where they could change, an area where they could be better for seven people. Now, I had no problem going home and writing these things, no problem. But the part of the exercise that was heart-wrenching was that we sat in a circle and you went face to face and you read your feedback to this person. And you went face to face and you read your feedback to this person Raise your hand if you want to go to that party. Seven people. You had to go around and look them in the eyes and tell them hey, this is what I see about you, this is what I'm learning from you. But hey, in the short time that we've been together three months here's an area that you can work on. Seven times I had to do that Seven times. People had to do that to me and I had to sit, look into their eyes and listen to ways that they think I can grow.
Speaker 1:It was extremely difficult, so difficult that the week that we were supposed to do it I actually got sick to my stomach and threw up in the bathroom. That's how nerve-wracking it was. But let me tell you from that experience thankfully I have good people in my life that said Ben, this is going to be good for you and opened up to it. Thank you, sonia. I have therapy once a week with Sonia on the couch out there. It's great. I was able to be in a position where I'm going to listen.
Speaker 1:And it was really hard because there were members of the group who had a lot of issues with me I don't know why and they let it out. They let all of it go. One person in particular said Ben, I have the most hard time listening to you in this group. Yeah, yeah, exactly, ouch, it was brutal. It was brutal.
Speaker 1:But God did something in that moment, because I heard a theme being said From every single person who gave me feedback, who looked me in the eyes. A common theme was you seem to put up walls, you seem not to share, you seem to hold a lot of things inside. And that week I received the same message from friends in my life that same week. You see, when we take our stuff, when we take our hurts and bring them to the source and honor God in that way and say, hey, this is how you hurt me, instead of going to point A or point B and we take it right to the source, god can use that. It's going to be hard and you might hear things that you don't want to hear and aren't ready to hear.
Speaker 1:But that's what conflict is all about. It's not about and we're going to talk about this in just a second it's not about a fight. It's not about anything like that. It's about an opportunity for God to do something in your life, to grow you, to change you, to mold you. But we have to have the courage to go to the source. We're still in verse 15. If your brother sins against you, go and show him his faults. Verse 15 continues. This is not a fight to win. It's not about winning the fight. If your brother sins against you, go and show him his faults. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. Because at the heart of this conflict between brothers in Christ, between sisters in Christ in the church, at the heart of it, it's about fixing the relationship, mending what has been broken. It's not about standing up and saying I was right. You want to know how to keep the conflict going. It's to say the words. I told you so, but some of us are unwilling. We want to win so bad. We want nothing else. We will want to win so bad that we know we are wrong. It sounds ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Five years ago my son Isaiah he's into Star Wars and we're talking about Star Wars and he saw a Lego figure and he said this is from this Star Wars movie. I said no, it's from this Star Wars movie. Young man, don't question my my movie knowledge and star wars he's like no, you're wrong. And I looked at it again I'm like crap, I'm wrong. But I was unwilling to admit to my son that I was wrong. So I said I know you are wrong, I'm right. He's like no, I'm like. I went this far. I said I'll bet you twenty dollars that I'm right. And he said, bet, I was bet you $20 that I'm right. And he said, bet, I was like crud. Because that kid went home and hopped on internet and right there and I owed him $20. He will tell you that story today, how he earned $20 from me. Because I was unwilling to admit that I was wrong. I was unwilling to look at him and say you are right.
Speaker 1:Because conflict for me and maybe for some of you, it's about winning the fight. It's about being right no matter what. And Jesus tells you that this is not what conflict is about. That is not the goal of conflict. The goal is to mend that relationship, to mend what has been broken, to grow both of you in relationship with each other and in relationship with God. That's the goal of conflict not to have to be right. And sometimes it means looking at that person and hearing them out. It means looking at that person and hearing them out, better, understanding why they did what they did, why they said what they said. Sometimes it means you looking at that person and even though you went to the person who harmed you. After hearing what they have to say, it might mean you having to say I'm sorry, because it's not about being right, it's about mending what has been broken. Hey, we're still in verse 15. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:If your brother sins against you, go and show him his faults. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over, because it's all about that relationship. Okay, so what do you do? I followed steps A, I followed steps B, I followed steps C. What do you do? What do you do if it still is not mending? What do you do if the person is unwilling to budge and you've done everything you can? What do you do?
Speaker 1:Jesus tells us we're gonna jump ahead for verse 17. Here we go, we're off of that horrible verse. Verse 17 tells us. But here's the kicker. This is another misunderstood verse. Verse 17 says this Jesus says If he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would, a pagan or a tax collector. For some of us, we're like oh, finally some validation that I kicked that person to the curb. Finally some validation that says I've done everything that I could. And they are unwilling to budge. Jesus says okay, you can move on. That's how we read that passage sometimes. But how does Jesus treat the pagan? How does Jesus treat the tax collector?
Speaker 1:This book, matthew, is written by a former tax collector. He goes and has meals with tax collectors. He goes and stands up for pagans. He shows love to them. This is the hardest part. This is the hardest part about conflict.
Speaker 1:If we get past verse 15, we got another kicker at verse 17. So I've done everything that I can. I felt like I've bent over backwards. I know some of you in this room are feeling this exact way with someone in your life right now, that you have done everything possible and nothing is working. I've followed this, I get it and it's still not mending. What do I do? Jesus says you still love him.
Speaker 1:Now, this doesn't mean that you're a doormat. Jesus was never a doormat. It doesn't mean that you let people walk all over you and you continue to get hurt and hurt, and hurt, and we're not going to go into that. But you know what it means to guard your heart and you know what it means, maybe to have to love someone at a distance. But Jesus still showed love to the pagans. He showed love to the tax collectors. That's a hard thing. It's a really hard thing, and this is kind of where I want to leave you this morning. I want to show you this picture, yeah, this one here. Let me explain. So this is how I think Jesus views us, and if we can start viewing other people, especially those people we are in conflict with, I think this will help.
Speaker 1:The picture on the left is a staircase that my wife and I have worked on. We've lived in this house for five years and we started this project about four and a half years ago, and it's still looking like this. It's not finished at all because, as we realize, we have a split entry home and what we want to do to the stairs, it needs a good, solid weekend where no one can walk on it. We're a family of six, which means we all live together upstairs and can never leave the house ever, or we all live downstairs, where there can never leave the house ever, or we all live downstairs where there is no kitchen or food to survive, so we don't know what to do. These stairs are a work in progress.
Speaker 1:The picture next to you a couple weeks ago my wife was out of town and I'm going to do something nice for my wife. She wants to get rid of all the rock in our front garden and I said I'm going to get it. I and I said I'm going to get it. I'm going to get all the rock out of there. It's going to be great. She's going to come home. It's going to be a great, big, beautiful surprise. She'll love me forever. All that good stuff. And I start working and I realize rock's pretty heavy. This is a pretty big job. There's a lot of rock. That was three weeks ago. Took that picture yesterday. It's a work in progress.
Speaker 1:I think that's how God views us as a work in progress. He knows that conflict is hard. He knows that confrontation is not easy. He knows that transformation and allowing these moments to change us and grow us is not easy. He knows that at the end of it, when the person is maybe unwilling to fix the relationship, unwilling to budge, yet he calls us still to love them. He knows that it's not easy. He views us as a work in progress.
Speaker 1:I've been married for nine years. As a husband, I'm a big work in progress. I've been a father for nine years. Ask my kids. I'm a big work in progress. I've been a father for nine years. Ask my kids I'm a big work in progress. I've worked in kids' ministries and youth ministries for 15 years. I'm a big work in progress. I've been following Jesus since seventh grade and I'm a huge work in progress. What if we, in the midst of this conflict, were able to look at the person across the table that harmed you and hurt you and view them as a work in progress? How would that change the situation? How would that change the way that you're able to love them when it feels like you can't? Central Lutheran Church. We're a bunch of work in progress. May we start viewing others the same way and may we see conflict in our lives as an opportunity to grow deeper and closer to God and mend what has been broken in our life. Amen.
